(With reference to a slightly off-topic discussion on a different thread...) Here's a classic example of what even I would have to call a "negative" contribution! In fact I think it's so poor, I'm sorely tempted to suppress it... but I won't.

The preoccupation with Bill's "crimes" is perhaps understandable, and no-one can deny that there are a number of staunch Evertonians who have no time for Bill Kenwright. However, surely it's a bit of a stretch to require other people, especially past players, to whistle your tune.

And Ste, you're another one wanting to go down this highly dubious road of claiming that you represent something other than a "vociferous minority". Now I appreciate that in context the term is being used pejoratively to negate or neutralize valid issues and concerns you may have about Bill's reign, but this kind of rant quite honestly does you no favours, Ste. (IMESHO)

Let's see what other people think — both about the topic, and whether or not such a topic is worthy of discussion on this Everton website.

Along with the vast majority of football supporters, I have no idea how good or bad Bill Kenwright is as an ’owner’. My highly respectable university degree gives me no insight into matters I have no detailed knowledge of. Other people can form their own opinions in their own ways.

I believe there is some concern amongst those who follow the Mancs that their owners are bleeding the club dry. I don’t know, don’t care, and until I become a major EFC shareholder there’s sod all I can do about Blue Bill or anyone else.

The thing is Michael, is why doesn’t Horne just shut up? Whether ex-players should whistle Kenwright’s tune or not, why does Barry Horne need to say anything? I find it patronising to be told by an ex-player that I should pay tribute to Kenwright. The facts are Kenwright is a liar and he treats his own club’s fans with utter contempt (see his comments at the last AGM when he refused to answer a totally fair question). He has now failed to deliver on TWO ground moves and he has failed to find the club any investment, yet Barry Horne thinks we should pay tribute to the man!

I tend to agree with Keith. If so many people who have worked for, or worked with Bill like and respect him, then thats good enough for me. He may be a bit of a dreamer and not the greatest businessman of all time but the fact that so many of our former players refuse to criticise him say’s it all, and maybe it’s not Horne who has his head in the sand.

Ste you ask why former players don’t criticise Kenwright, may I suggest the simple answer is that they disagree with you and don’t see him as worthy of such criticism? Barry Horne has offered his opinion, other players may offer theirs. I don’t see there’s any conspiracy and I don’t think Bill’s got dirty pictures of them, I just think that they, like you, say it how they see it. They just happen to see it differently to you.

I have to say that personally I don’t see it the same way as you, I can’t be bothered to go into any details as its all been said before and those threads tend to divide blues in a way I don’t like to see, and often get vitriolic and personal unnecessarily. My own position is that Kenwright is guilty of being a relative pauper, a wishful thinker, a fantasist even, and when it comes to the crunch lacking the ability to get serious deals done (King’s Dock being the major one). I don’t see him as being worse than that and I believe he loves Everton and wants what’s best for the club.

On the other hand, I agree with you in general about Barry Horne. I think he’s a terrible pundit, who may sandwich some sense into what he says but its often quite well hidden amongst nonsense and drivel. I can’t remember what I heard him commentating on recently but he was dreadful, embarrassingly so particularly as he scored one of the best goals of all time (especially given its importance) and was a major factor in our last trophy win.

Alan, if Barry Horne should just shut up and not give his opinion, then the rest of us should follow suit and not give ours. He just might think what he is saying is correct and have a lot of respect for Blue Bill Bullshitter Kenwrong Kenwright. While others don't agree, that is just their same right to have an opinion.

I am in total agreement with Michael.

Michael, I agree parts of my article is a bit over the top having read it again but I'm frankly fed up of our former players saying how wonderful BK is and Horne’s patronising views just pushed me over the edge.

Pay tribute?

Who the hell is he to tell me what I should be doing?

I wouldn't take anything Barry Horne says seriously.

He said that Eduardo dived against Celtic because he was trying to get out of the way cos he was scared of getting injured again.

The guy talks absolute nonsense.

Ha... Interesting [slighly]

Surely Horne's whole article is based upon the suppression of opinion — he is effectively telling people what to do.

I don’t know much about Horne, but most players are simply not supporters and do not suffer the slings and arrows — and the majorityof so-called celebrity Evertonians that seem to scribe articles on cuddly Bill seem to be almost entirely ignorant or specifically one-eyed about the goings on under his stewardship.

I think he’s a pain in the arse.

One obvious reason why Barry Horne opens his mouth is that it’s in his interests too.

For one, he’s probably paid for his punditry. Dozens of people are happy to come on here and share their views (of the the club they love, admittedly) for free, so how much more enthusiastic would we be if we were being paid for it as well?

Secondly, as implied by the original poster, it does him no harm to say nice things about the owner — especially if he’s looking for some hospitality from time to time. Most people respect the side their bread’s buttered. It takes a special person (sometimes a fool) to tell it like it is.

Like a lot of people in the public eye, BK is guilty of spreading the BS around quite a bit. And yes, to many he’s probably told porkies too. What person in public life hasn’t (besides Maximilien Robespierre perhaps, and look what happened to him)?

So, however, on balance I’m happy we have BK. He’s not a Glazer or a Hicks. He’s not an enigma (I choose my words carefully) like Abramovich. He’s not a fool like Risdale. And he’s not a bloody Ken Bates. When the last named was in charge at Chelsea he had Peter Houseman (I think, could’ve been Osgood) tossed out of the Directors’ Lounge — he didn’t know who he was and, what’s more, he didn’t care.

BK has presided over a period of relative success. But like all football fans, when we get given a little, we want a lot. We’re NEVER satisfied (I’ve lost count of the times I’ve heard Arsenal fans on 606, for example, calling for Wenger to be sacked). BK has consistently allowed the transfer record to be broken and, squad wise, we look so much better than we did 10 years ago, or 20 years ago for that matter.

As an Evertonian who knows his history I know we deserve better than what we’ve been getting. I support a club which has been pretty well blessed during its history. 24 years is a long time to wait for a league title, and 15 years since any silverware is not what this 50 year old has come to expect (I calculate, pro rata, I’m due silverware every 7 years).

So, I want some silverware, I want us to be able to challenge, and having seen us win something I’ll expect us to win again. But I’m also a realist, and accept that in BK we’ve probably been luckier than the fans supporting perhaps 80 and more of the 92 clubs in the football league.

We could do a whole lot worse. But that won’t stop many people wanting BK run out of town...

Can we have a bit of perspective on this issue please. Horne is not suppressing anyones opinion Ciaran, if anything he is right about their being a vociferous minority against Bill and the board.

In comparision to Maddocks paens to Bill in which he deliberately picked a fight with his critics; Horne’s is rather apologetic, he is paying tribute to pay the gas bill that is it. As far as tributes go its a non-tribute; thank god for Bill, it could be worse-damning with faint praise is what it is.

Horne is entitled to his opinion and of course he’s probably getting a few quid for expressing it.

My own is that Kenwright is no worse than a lot of owners but is never going to lead us to the promised land we all seek.

Having said that, if the alternative is a Portsmouth, Manure or Redshite situation where we could drown in debt at any moment, I’ll take him, thanks. At least he clearly cares for the club.

I agree with Michael (which is something quite rare to be honest).

Barry Horne praises Kenwright etc...so what, what difference does it make?

I am getting tired of these reactionary posts. Every time someone mentions Everton, or doesn’t mention Everton it results in a mailbag thread on this site whether it be Tony Cascarino, Alan Hansen etc.

If you don't rate Barry Hornes footballing knowledge, why does his analysis take your interest?

I don't rate the knowledge of Alan Hansen and Co, so I don't listen to them or take anything I do listen to seriously.

Why did Barry Horne say what he said? Probably because the Echo needed some pages to fill, he is probably a friend of BK and probably see’s the positive elements of BK (which do exist) ahead of the negative (which definitely exist).

Also ’who the hell is he to tell me what I should be doing?’ Well, if he said ’I think all fans should come out and protest at the next game about the direction this club is taking’ would you say the same thing?

A critique on Kenwright is fine; a critique on Horne's analysis would be fine.... but none of that is offered. You say a number of ex-players are coming out supporting Blue Bill... do they not have a right to? Was anything they said a lie? Who in fact are these numerous former players?

He is wrong, but it is a none story and agree with Michael that articles on this site should have more thought put into them, increasing the credibility.

Transfer rumours are the one thing that can only be responded to in a reactionary manner, but they should always be considered light-hearted and never taken seriously. Posts on them are fine (within limits) but I would like them to be separate from the central discussion of the club... a format like the tongue in cheek Rumour Mill on the Guardian Website. New signings warrant a serious discussion, Daily Mail page filler does not.

Also, remember that if its in the Echo is generally not worth reading anyway.

Well, whatever you think of Bill K, we’re stuck with him until the ’unacceptable face of capitalism’ buys him out.

English Premier League Football mirrors the rest of the modern day economy — a ’free’ market, that’s out of control, that has no checks and balances and is currently going through a period of anarchic nihilism without the capicity of those who are supposed to be in control of the speculators, to reign in the sharks and ’quick buck’ boys.

I was talking to a Manchester United supporter yesterday, who made the comparison between the relationship of the Glazers to Manchester United and their supporters as being like:

"A wicked step-dad, who comes home pissed, beats up your mum, rapes her, steals the housekeeping — but you put up with him because he gives you sweets every now and again"

Well, we don’t get many ’sweets’ off Bill — but at least he treats our mum with some respect.

As to whether the piece should have been spiked by the editor — what on Earth for?

Bloody hell Chris - I don’t usually chip into threads like this, but your -

"What person in public life hasn’t {lied} (besides Maximilien Robespierre perhaps, and look what happened to him)?" had to get me going.

I totally admire the way that you expect us footy fans out here to even register that you have said anything, let alone comprehend it. But this, after all, TW, not something like ’Red or Ded’.

I doubt that any tumbrel will be taking Blue Bill away in the near future. I suspect that he’s sitting on his chips, not pissing on them.

Michael
you know where I'm coming from.

Censure this post???

What when you allow some of the drivel Doddy posts!!

Ste
I totally agree with you.

I can't stand liars and Kenwright is king amongst them.

Barry Horne is entitled to his opinion but should not be exhorting evertonians to pay homage to him.

Apart from appointing Moyes (and not supporting him financially) what has Kenwright done for the club to deserve homage?

I can safely say the only time I have been embarrassed to support Everton is when Blue Bill is on TV talking rubbish.

Big time nostalgic Luvvie who I have no time for.

Horne isn’t just expressing his opinion though is he?

I can’t believe anyone can have any faith left in Kenwright. I think a lot of people have short memories. He LIED to us about Kirkby — "no viable alternatives" he said, "world class stadium" he said.

He has also managed to undermine his manager every transfer window turning us into a farce. The start of the last 2 seasons have been totally disrupted by the inability to buy players early despite saying after the cup final there’d be no repeat of the year before. His crimes are worse than just being a relative pauper.

Horne can write about why he thinks he’s a good chairman but to start saying we should be paying tribute to him is out of order. Horne should remove his tongue from Kenwright’s arse and start looking at the facts.

Firstly, Kevin, you’re spot on about what football has become. The only way to survive is to get the lucky number at the roulette table and have a sheikh or a Russian billionaire buy you because he’s tired of his other toys.

Secondly, Michael, we can’t go censoring people just because we don’t like their views. Let people express themselves, even if it is ’negative’.

And lastly, Barry Horne was a pretty mediocre player. Perhaps his ideas are like his play: insipid, without imagination and with but a faint idea of where the goal is.

I’ll second Fran’s post. Spot on.

Horne is so far up Kenwright's arse he can see Doddy’s feet.

Who needs Cantona when we’ve got Barry Horne?

Or maybe more apposite - who needs Barry Horne when we’ve got Doddy?