Sean, you make a valid observation but you fail to recognise that the sale of West Ham is more like a car boot sale of a football club. They are bidding to buy the club from a bankrupt party that will sell to the highest bidder, two which have already failed to fulfil and one of them may fail to pass Premier League assessment.

WHU has a debt but it also has the possibility of taking the Olympic Stadium after 2012 similar to what City did in Manchester. Red Ken blocked this move but it looks like Boris may look at it again so potentially having this stadium in London city area adds a tremendous about of “potential value” to WHU — that’s why they have a list of speculative buyers for the club.

You must also take in to account that the bidders are either consortiums or reasonably wealthy individuals and if successful none of them are looking at major investment like Villa, Spurs and City but just organic growth. So, from a WHU prospective, they are looking for stability as a starting point.

Regardless of what you think of EFC Co Ltd, one thing we have is stability... so EFC investment/sale needs to generate a much richer and cash rich individual or consortium but these types of buyers are sadly not attractive to our club. To be arrogant about it, we are looking at a higher level, which is correct... but the higher you go, the less choice one has. So there lies one of the problems. COYB

It is rubbish that the Hammers are based in London?? I really do need to do my geography lessons again ;-)

Alan Williams said it all really, spot on Alan.

The easy answer is that Tony Fernandes, owner of Air Asia, and expecting buyer of West Ham is a life long West Ham fan and Malaysia his home country goes mad for the EPL. Aside from that, Air Asia flies to London from Kuala Lumpur and he’s absolutely revered in his own country. He’s been able to give everyone in South East Asia affordable flights for holidays so for him — and I hate to use this cliche — its a win-win situation.

As long as West Ham stay in the Premier League, the Air Asia money will keep flowing in. I don't think it's such a bad investment, West Ham were ok last year... not sure what's happened this year but Zola is a decent manager, I think... and they’ll stay up, I reckon.

Plucky Northerner Everton fans’ consortium with a 400 million quid between them, leaving Bill on the board and a smaller share of the Club to do all the TV interviews and PR stuff.

That’s the only type of investment I think we are able to attract as the foreign investors are looking to the South. Think about it, if you had a spare £200m what kind of questions would you be asking in relation to such a big investment??

Do you want the Toffeelady to whore herself for the titillation of club crawlers?

English clubs are taken over by foreign entrepreneurs with no interest in our culture or what we think. To these carpetbaggers, we the fans are not human beings with hopes and dreams; we are mere statistics in a profit and loss book. At the smell of further profit, they will sell us to a new bunch of carpet baggers without a second thought.

I see them gleefully binning our club colours as they move on to their next ’big deal’. I am proud of my club's heritage and do not want her to sex up her act just to attract the crawlers. To do otherwise would make me little more than a pimp.

Besides the immeasurable wealth afforded Man Shitteh, what Northern team has benefitted from investment? ManUre’s wealth has been arned through success (and the Glazers’ massive mortgaging), The RS’ wealth is as per ManUre’s, so where else has had the investment?

Newcastle? Sunderland? Derby? Nottingham Forest? Ipswich? etc, etc, etc. in fact, the only successful example I can think of north of the M25 is Aston Villa and that is less successful than our organic performance.

So, barring the levels of frivolous waddage afforded to Shitteh I can actually see why it is so hard to find investment for us. They struck gold when they found someone who had the definitive version of more money than sense. What is the likelihood that we will do the same?

All that said, aren’t QPR reorted to be the richest club in the world and where are they...?

Who needs new owners and investment when we can sell our best players and re-invest some of that cash into poor replacements?

"So what is the problem?" Having the bullshitter formerly known as Bill Kenwright in charge.

Simple answer to this one: London. That is why they get more people sniffing around than us — London is a huge winner when it comes to overseas investment over Merseyside.

The simple answer is return.

Assuming there are no billionaires out there with a fondness for Everton FC, we are only really likely to find real investors who will want some sort of return.

Bearing in mind that any likely investor would need to outlay at least £100m to fund an adequate stadium or re-develop GP, that in addition to buying out existing shareholders to gain control. Then finally assuming they hadn’t had enough of spending they would need to add further funds for transfers.

All this and the only potential areas of return are through increased revenues streams either through marketing, stadium revenues from corporate, increase capacity, CL money if we can achieve top 4.

Sounds quite risky, doesn’t it? Obviously all figures are debatable but, however you look at it, its a long-term payback at high risk not the most sensible approach for an investor.

More likely is someone looking for a quick buck, looks at potential player values in our squad, buys out existing shareholders, makes no investment in the stadia and flogs all of our players looking for a quick return. This is where you have to be careful what you wish for.

Because WE ARE NOT FOR SALE!

David Whitwell,

"Bearing in mind that any likely investor would need to outlay at least £100m to fund an adequate stadium or re-develop GP, that in addition to buying out existing shareholders to gain control. Then finally assuming they hadn’t had enough of spending they would need to add further funds for transfers"

---

So when the Arabs bought City. They paid nearly £200M to buy the club. They’ve since spent another £120M on players.

£50M to buy the club.
£50M to clear the debts.
£100M towrds a stadium.
£50M on players.

That’s less than what they spent on City. So let's not pretend we were/are more of a bottomless pit than anyone else.

Phil,

That’s why I used the term real investors. The Arabs haven’t got a hope of ever getting there money back on there investment, but to them its not an investment, its a toy.

I’m not saying those guys are not out there, but so far we have only seen Chelsea, Man City & Newcastle where there has been a genuine desire to spend without and hope of a real return.

If that happens to us then great, what I am getting at is outside of these examples investors will look to at least getting there money back, and looking at Everton, the value is in selling our players.

I include Newcastle as Ashley is on record as saying he was willing to lose £20m a year of his own money on transfers, his problem being he gave it to a bunch of muppets to spend. I’m sure Moyes would be delighted if he had £20m a year to spend.

Ahhh...

The eternal questions...Are we sale? What’s the price? How do they get the fig into fig rolls?

Wrong questions if you ask me.

The question should really be...How do we get the fucker out?

The written equivalent of shrugged shoulders and kicking the dirt while keeping our hands in pockets... suggests we’re happy enough to complain about the travesties without actually delving into the murky world of sorting them.

Militancy is well and truly dead... [unless you’re French of course]

Ciaran,

Silly boy! They don’t put the fig in fig-rolls, they wrap the pastry around the fig... DOH!

Ok then, tell us how we get the fucker out... assuming you mean Blue Bill. You come up with the plan and I’ll join in.

Just a few facts and figures regarding Everton's attractiveness to investors.

West Ham have a capacity of 35,000 at the Boleyn Ground, they have the same number approximately of season ticket holders as we do, 26,000, but have a current waiting list of over 8,000.

Glasgow Rangers have 42,000 STH with a waiting list of 15,000; Celtic 50,000 STH with 10,000 on waiting list; Derby County 23,500 STH with 2,000 on waiting list; Arsenal have a rising waiting list of 50,000... Liverpool 60,000!!

Liverpool have the same number of STH as Everton, but it is capped so they can sell to corporate and "day trip" supporters. Man Utd have 57,000 STH and also cater for corporate et; Spurs have 27,000 STH with 26,000 on the waiting list and a paying membership of 70,000.

Everton do not have a waiting list, in fact, they advertise half-season tickets every year, an investor would look at this potential source of revenue and question why the club is not as popular as other clubs, where would future revenue streams emanate from?

Also I don't think the club has any assets left, everthing has been hocked, which is why every year players are sold to fund transfers, Lucas Neill is an example of this.

Because we are not for sale, for fucks sake! Kenwright will only leave once a new stadium is in place and his payoff is tripled.

Larry,

If you’re correct. Does this mean we aren’t a Big club any more? I was brought up believing Everton were a top club with a top fanbase. If our support really is that mediocre (and I’m not questioning your figures), then my Dad lied to me.

Or perhaps people don't want to pay shit loads to watch a side that plays decent football once a month (pauper-like transfer funds), and sit in a hole with obstructed views. Sorry for the cynicism, no disprect to GP but it doesn’t draw people in — in its current state!

Larry, the season ticket waiting list arguement can be misleading. There is no chance the RS could sell 75,000 season tickets, even if they had a stadium to accommodate such a demand. Many of these pricks are on the waiting list so they can turn round and say "If I could get season ticket, I’d go..." knowing very well they can't, so they have the perfect excuse. I know many of them and they're full of shit.

Ahh... you can’t beat a good conspiracy theory, can you? So we’re not for sale despite that fact that Blue Bill (aka Kenwrong (aka Beelzebub)) has stated on numerous occasions that the club is for sale.

Conspiracy theory #2: the evil fucker’s waiting for a payoff (I think that’s called business). All this is based on the "If I won £100 million on the Eurolottery I’d give it all to my beloved blues and stay on the dole, so why doesn’t Blue Bill (aka Hitler (aka Satan)) sell his house, business, cars, sell everything, give it to the club; he can always drive a minicab — that’s what I’d do" school of thought.

The reason why no-one’s bought Everton is because it's not a viable business, just google football finances if you want to see the appaling state of football. Most clubs are reporting an increase in turnover, some by as much as 30% and yet the collective debt continues to rise dramatically. You don’t need an economics degree to realise that a business with statistics like that is going to hit the iceberg, and if you’re involved in it, wave bye bye to your investment.

And, as some of the posters have already said, investment in London is about land values, something that Goodison Park hasn’t got to temp the would be investor.

Football needs to get away from the trainset mentality, from both investors and fans alike, it is, in Peter Risdale’s word "living the dream" that has put football into so much hock.

Wow some people are really stupid!! Please read the article before making your comment, forget this phrase we are not for sale, it dosn't matter weather we are for sale or not, if a high flying billionaire wanted our club, he or she would go public and let everyone in public eye know that they made an offer which then in turn puts the pressure on Bill an co. The question is why is there not a little bit of interest in our club?

Alan, fair shout about Upton Park an the Olympics, however they may not get that stadium therefore buyers would be taking a huge risk? As for the waiting list of surporters, if the club is more successful on the pitch, the fans will grow; if we buy players like Ronaldinho etc, more fans would come to support Everton, fans like to see superstars.

So... no one has really answered my question, why is nobody interested?

Phil, your dad did not lie to you, or my Dad to me, or me to my son. Everton were one of the most innovative and forward thinking of sporting clubs.

I have been in Goodison when there were over 70,000 people there, nearly all Evertonians, the vast majority local people. >I have been to most club grounds in this country and Goodison was light years ahead of any of them. We are still a Premiership club, but I think only in name — not defined by its actions.

Minimal investment over the last 30 years has seen us fall away from that elite group we once led and as the saying goes "you can fool some of the people" etc, etc. People are very discerning these days and they wont put up with the things supporters had to endure in the 50s, 60s, 70s, etc
The problem is that Sky dictates to most people now which team you will support, it used to be your Dad or brother filling your head with tales of Dixie, the Golden Vision, the Latch etc. Why do I see kids walking round the streets of Liverpool with Chelsea tops on, you can guarantee they have never been to Stamford Bridge, but they see them on Sky and ask their mothers to buy them a top, the loop with the Dad, brother taking them to Goodison or Anfield is broken.

Investors would surely look at it the same way: why is support for a top 6 PL team like Everton not more than what it is? And why is there no potential support evident? Why are they not generating more revenue from sponsorship, shirts sales and so on?

I have said before that the most relieved people that Kirby did not go through were Mr Kenwright and his board, because there is no way they would have had the money available for that project — if they had, they would have screamed the place down when it was rejected.

"There is something rotten in the state of Denmark" as Marcellus says to Horatio... for Denmark substitute Goodison, I am only a supporter with too much time on my hands, but why are we so piss poor at running this club???

The club clearly stated at the DK inquiry that all the Board were totally committed & none of them intended to sell their shares — a lie, according to David Hallwood.

I’ve only heard about Kenwright’s search for "investment" not buyers. The club is not actually Kenwright’s to sell, a number of major shareholders would have to be willing to sell in order to offer control of the club to any buyer. As a result, any take-over will be more complicated than at many other clubs where one party has a controlling interest already.

The situation may have changed subsequent to the demise of DK, but if so, it’s happened rather quietly — no doubt if things do change it’ll probably be when we least expct it.

Dennis, don’t think football — think business. Put yourself in the shoes of an investor ... you’re not in it for charity, you invest to earn money, that’s why you’re called an investor.

Then take a look at the finances and potential profit that you will gain by investing in Everton FC; honestly, Dennis all the information is on the internet. In addition, since the credit crunch, the availability of easy money has dried up.

What Evertonians want is not an investor but a benefactor or a sugar-daddy who, instead of diverting their hard-earned into famine relief or Romanian orphanages, or a cure for AIDS, have decided to support another charity called Everton FC.

I’ve posted on this site a number of times, that if there was money to be made, the moneymen would take it over regardless of BK’s wishes. They offer silly money to buy up the shares and test the shareholders’ resolve.

David (Hallwood), How do you know what most Evertonians want?

Speaking for myself and the mates I go to the game with, most of us want a leader who has a plan and purpose for EFC that doesn't lie or deceive the fans and can run the club competently.

I actually do NOT want a sugar daddy billionaire who gets off and leaves the club in mess when the novelty wears off. And, truth to be told, there aren't that many owners of that type anyway.

Most owners/Chairmen do not put their own money in; they have a good standing in financial circles and are able to run the clubs within a looser financial strait jacket due to their reputation and standing — unlike Kenwright, who is not a particularly well thought of person to do business with.

I actually enquired last year about the terms of buying EFC and, as you might expect, it is very complicated to the extent that it would put anybody who is not a "keen" buyer off at the first hurdle.

Kenwright may be presenting the "stability" ticket right now but when the chickens come home to roost watch out for record borrowings and no assets as the legacy which he leaves us with.

No matter what you want to say about BK’s reluctance to sell, a ’hostile takeover’ is not on the cards. That could only really happen if our shares were publicly traded... which they aren’t.

Clubs like Arsenal are subject to this kind of thing where Usmanov can keep buying up shares on the stock market until he owns enough to be forced to make an offer for the remainder (30% of the shares).

Personally, I’m glad to an extent that our destiny is in the hands of someone who does at least appear to have the best interests of the club at heart.

I’d rather not be faced with problems like Pompey and West Ham have faced recently. Even if we’re peniless in the meantime, at least we’re not facing winding up orders...

David, I’m not sure why you seem to have addressed your last post to me seeing as it bears litle relevance, if any, to my post. Just reads as a bit of rather patronising soap-boxing on your part.

Your post consists of suppositions & statements of the bleeding obvious: "you invest to earn money" — no shit!

It may come as a surprise to you but Everton Football Club is a business & not a charity — don’t be fooled by the way that business has been run.

Although it may not be obvious to you, it doesn’t seem inconceivable that somebody with sufficient business acumen might look at Everton & consider it’s a business that they could run better. However, I doubt part of any business plan would be to "offer silly money to buy up the shares and test the shareholders’ resolve" — unless, of course, the plan was to load the costs of acquisition back onto the club, as we have seen elsewhere.

Your assumptions about what other Evertonians want may or may not be accurate, I couldn’t hazard a guess, but what I want is for our club to be better run by the Board and, if the current Board members are unable or unwilling to do so, then I hope that they sell their shares either collectively or individually & clear out. Their successors may not be multi-billionaires but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t do a better job.

I just don’t get this thread. Would you be happy with Arabs, Yanks or Russians taking over our club? I wouldn’t.

We are an English club, have been for 130 years and I’d like it to stay that way. Chelski, Man U and the RS are not English any more, just the playthings of foreigners with more money than sense.

Give it a year or so and the unbelievable level of debt submerging the RS and the Mancs will take it’s toll and maybe, just maybe, we will have a level playing field.

Alan Williams, well done for pointing out to Sean some of the differences between the current state of WHU and EFC.

David Hallwood, spot on dear boy. Don't worry about the subsequent "how do you know what Evertonians want?" You know and I now because we’ve had to read the crap since time began.

Sometimes the argument gets particularly sophisticated, "get the fucker out" being today’s best example.

One wonders what it is that appears to make some Evertonians believe that a sporting limited company in L4 somehow deserves stacks of cash from a benefactor, no strings attached, despite the club being unable to effectively pay its own way.

Again, it’s the wrong argument. If you look a little closer at the West Ham analogy you’ll see how utterly fucked up the club got after a dose of investment by signing up a raft of overpaid ponses (Neill, Dyer, Lundberg, ...) on long contracts at £80k a week.

Everton do not need a billionaire. Football;s finances need fixing. This is happening, thank god. In 10 years’ time Platini will be due the thanks of football fans everywhere for orchestrating a new system that just may have saved their club.

The idea that a football club should be run as a charity is twaddle. The fucker, as one or two choose to call him, is oddly the envy of fans of many clubs. Why should a chairman give money to a club? I’ve asked that question a thousand times on here and, strangely, never got an answer.

Clubs should pay their own way. Simple. As for precisely why we haven’t been sold, I know no more or less than anyone on here. However, I also don’t pretend that I do.

As for why the sale of EFC might help us, well, that hasn’t been fully explained either.

Dennis, it was because of your previous post when you repeated the old chestnut that BK didn’t want to sell, he wanted ‘investors’, so forgive the sarcasm but I can’t help it. It’s the difference between ‘for sale’ and ‘investment’ that gets everybody’s knickers in a twist on this site.

So let’s look at the investor route; do you seriously believe that someone is going to come with x amount of money, give it to Bill, and take a back seat? Don’t you think that the reason they’re putting what would have to be a substantial amount of money, they’d want control?

As for the “doubt part of any business plan would be to offer silly money to buy up the shares and test the shareholder’s resolve", that’s what happens in most takeovers; people have shares worth £1 and the prospective buyers offer £1.10 (or whatever) for the shares, what would be the point of a shareholder selling out for face value, they might as well stay as they are.

You see that all the time in the transfer market: a club wants a player, the other club doesn’t want to sell unless they offer silly money (Lescott anyone?)

But then we come to the final point that you want the club to be better run by the board. Amen to that. Do I want a new chairman-you betcha, do I think the board have maximised Everton’s potential — absolutely no, but Dennis then you state that they should clear off and give control to who?

There is no party that has expressed an interest in buying Everton. I read financial papers, search the internet and with the exception of a consortium from Dubai about 18 months ago there hasn’t been a sniff of interest.

And this is what winds me up with TW, everyone’s posting that BK should step aside and let the new breed take control, except nobody wants the job.

Sophisticated eh..what’s that?

Driniking a bottle of cheap rose and thinking you’re king dick?

Playing tennis with your cardigan drapped over ’one’s’ shoulders?

Or writing a ten-page essay that’s dripping with pseudo-pretentious sophistry without actually ever managing to produce a point?

Or shaking Platini’s little hand on the basis of an absurd misdirection of his agenda?

Or the presumtious and assinine comment that Bill Kenwright is the envy of other fans?

You’ve got it all, Alan... apart from a point that is...

Why should a business owner provide money for the development of that business? As stupid questions go, that’s about as daft as they fucking get.

ps: Do you still want rid of Moyes?

pps: Re; Todays match... can’t bloody wait —- I think it’ll be a cracker. Hopefully Bily will get some airtime in the Cahill role...

A very strange response, David. You seem to be intent on responding to things I haven’t said.
I didn’t claim that Kenwright doesn’t want to sell (how would I know?), I pointed out, in response to your claim that Kenwright said the club is for sale, that the club told the DK inquiry that the Board weren’t planning to sell at the same time that Kenwright was saying he was searching 24/7 for "investment". Now you either consider one of those statements to be a lie or you accept that when Kenwright says "investment" he doesn’t mean that the club’s for sale. There’s no point in asking me what I think an investor would want, either with or without sarcasm, I’m not the one offering them the investment opportunity - whatever that may be.

Buying a controlling interest in a club where that control is spread amongst a handful of major shareholders is not the same as in a company where the shares are widely dispersed. You cannot just offer a little above the going rate, if there is one, & expect to find you’re suddenly the owner. A collective deal would have to be negotiated with sufficient major shareholders, unless any of them were looking to cut & run, otherwise the last man standing can hold out for a price higher than that received by the other major share-holders.

I didn’t state that the Board should clear off unless they, either collectively or individually, were unable to move the club forward - would you prefer them to remain in situ regardless of their performance? As for control of the club, I suspect it would remain with the major share-holders - but some or all of their identities would change with the sale of the shares.

Unfortunately, my crystal ball isn’t working so I can’t give you the names of the people or organisations that would buy the shares if any or all of the current Board decided to sell. I also haven’t read their names in the papers so obviously they don’t exist & no Everton share will ever be traded again - there’s clearly no market. Mind you, I didn’t know Earl was going to buy shares from Gregg, or that Gregg would enable Kenwright to gain controll of the club via TBH, or that Johnson would want to take-over Everton even whilst he still owned Tranmere Rovers. In fact this crystal ball is useless - but the funny thing is even though you may not know the future, it still happens!

I’ve not posted that Kenwright or anybody else should step aside, other than that it would be preferable to the Board allowing the club to stagnate. However, It seems a rather large assumption on your part to claim that nobody wants to take over the club, just because you don’t know about it.

All I want is a more successful Everton & don’t think that’ll happen if the Board don’t perform well. I don’t give a monkey’s who the Board members are as long as they are effective. The same as I don’t mind which players Moyes buys just so long as the team is successful & plays good football. I am not anti-Kenwright, I am pro-Everton.