The Mail Bag

Can anyone explain?

Comments (29)

In the late autumn I made what is becoming an annual post on this site. I said that that there were not three poorer teams in the Premier League than Everton, and that, this time, the relegation battle was on. Injuries were not an acceptable excuse... It was down to a summer of mismanagement and the negativity and lack of motivation from David Moyes.

I said roughly the same in 2008. Once more it seems that humble pie is waiting. What has gone right? Are we not still without key players? Maybe someone who knows more can explain it? It's hard to get Everton right... Maybe blind faith is what's required.

Let's hope, however, that the pattern of previous years is broken when we finish strongly, spend the summer expecting to move on and then take a step back again. I fear that Pienaar could be this summer's Lescott.

I was going to suggest that if he goes, it should be early and we start planning soon for next season, but what do I know?DM proves his critics wrong. I just can't explain how.
Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 17/01/2010 at 19:05:40

back Return to the Mail Bag

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Jay Harris
1   Posted 18/01/2010 at 15:25:22

Report abuse

I get the distinct impression that DM spits his dummy out in response to being misled about transfer funds and then realises that he is better than that and starts to work with the existing squad to organise them and motivate them more.

Then confidence starts to return aided by players recovering from injury and hey presto we’re a top six side again.

I actually think it’s far more complicated than that but that’s the simplistic view.
Kenny Lloyd
2   Posted 18/01/2010 at 15:28:39

Report abuse

Andy – I probably can’t explain but my opinion is that I think ultimately we have a good manager and a fine squad with class players and they are now coming to the fore after a miserable start. At the start of the season I think we did have low numbers of able bodies, we had people not in form quite as much as what they are now and after some bad results confidence dropped for all including the manager.

We have slowly started building this momentum through better performances, some hard earned draws leading to an unbeaten run and the City result has been coming. Let’s hope we can keep it going.
Ian Tunstead
3   Posted 18/01/2010 at 16:13:18

Report abuse

It’s very simple, one word, INJURIES. It can be a very fine line between winning and losing and one or 2 key players missing can make all the difference so 12 players missing is going to be massive. The defence has been unsettled all season and as a consequence we have conseded silly goals that would usualy not happen. We have also been unlucky conceding the most deflections in the league.

Apart from the Benfica game most of our games have been very close. If we had a few less injuries all of those 1-1 draws would probably be 1-0 wins, our close loses would be draws and the league table would look very different.
Col Wills
4   Posted 18/01/2010 at 16:36:16

Report abuse

10 reasons for the turnaround i’d put forward are thus:–

1) Pienaar's back and making us play on the ground and ’probe’ teams with inciteful passes
2) Neville's back, brings organisation
3) Osman's back, effort and skill
4) Rodwells missing, too many games played, no coincidence that we are defending better? Would use as an impact sub from now, when teams get tired.
5) Heitinga has settled, and helps to pass it out of defence
6) Fellaini has got over his wisdom tooth & virus problem; reminds me of a ’gelded’ horse now
7) Baines has returned to form after slow start.
8) The Donovan impact
9) Lazy Yak and Calamity Yobo are not around.
10) The Coleman’s ’mustard’ effect.
Nick Entwistle
5   Posted 18/01/2010 at 16:42:54

Report abuse

Having players come back has helped for sure, but as form has changed in previous season due to spcecific moments, ie crowd reaction to Spurs tactics and the Neville tackle, this season’s moment was half time at Hull. Its not registered as prominently as the wins didn’t show themselves immediately, but that's the pivotal moment for me.
Stefan Tosev
6   Posted 18/01/2010 at 19:11:24

Report abuse

The reasons Everton started the last two seasons slow are few among them the most important are:

1. The lack of money in the summer leads to late additions to the squad without the time needed for the new players to bed in. Recall the season when we signed early Johnson, Lescott and – the players were drafted in early, we had a proper pre-season and started all guns blazing with 12 points from 5 games.

2. The lack of depth in the squad means that our players are overplayed and overused – more so our internationals – hence they need a longer time to recover and our last two pre-seasons started with 5-6 senior pros each, you can check the reports on TW as prove. There is simply a time needed for a player to get his physical and mental condition ready for the season

3. The small squad at the end of the season is always overstretched and then injuries kick in, which in turn leads to lack of options in different areas at the start of the new season

4. The injuries disrupt the rhythm and the confidence of the team, it's not a coincidence that we are able to fill almost the same team for the last 5-6 games and our results and performance improved. Shuffling the team around every weekend and playing players out position, because of the lack of bodies wasn’t, is not and will never be winning strategy. Last season Arsenal lost Fabregas and RVP a period of five games – guess what – they didn’t score a single goal during that period. Same as Man Utd this season against Fulham and Leeds, everyone here was praising Leeds for having a go at United, but there wasn’t a single contributor to point the fact that United were without their first choice back four and their entire first choice midfield. Injuries and suspensions aren’t excuses, they influence team selection, rhythm and performance. If all the players are equally substitutable they will have all the same price, which as you can see is not reflected on the market.

5. Missing your key players is bound to influence your team performance – no amount of training will turn even Hibbert into an Arteta type of player, no amount of training will turn Cahill into left winger.

All these factors put together influence the team performance and, unfortunately, the lack of money and the coming World Cup suggest that the start of the next season won't be different.

Des Farren
7   Posted 18/01/2010 at 19:36:34

Report abuse

Ian, I don’t think it is as simple as you make out.

Of course injuries have played their part... but Arteta Jags & Yakubu are still missing yet we are producing our best form of the season? How do you explain that?

Also, you conveniently continue to ignore our abysmal start to the season and the startling lack of confidence shown by well paid professionals up to recently. Do these matters not enter your thinking processes at any stage?

Lee Kidd
8   Posted 18/01/2010 at 20:32:58

Report abuse

I think we have a decent manager who handles the Summer transfer window like an idiot. :)

Basically, we last gasp everything and the squad doesn’t settle before Christmas. Ian, it’s got precious little to do with injuries — it’s only Pienaar of any real quality that’s back. Arteta and Jags are still out, and Yak is far from his best.

If Moyes could get his Summer management on track, we’d be a serious force for the Sky Four to consider.
David Hallwood
9   Posted 18/01/2010 at 20:33:40

Report abuse

Des, it was injuries and which means than we haven’t had a settled team, so there was no cohesion. Take Fellaini, he started off the season on the back of a virus, and was asked to be a Duncan Ferguson like target man — file under not while he’s got a hole in his arse.

The back 4 was constantly being swaped and shuffled. Players who had been out for a while weren’t match fit, and because of a lack of bodies DM had to persevere with Cahill who wqas well off the pace and if there had been an alternative he would have been rested.

Take a look at the teams we’ve put out, available on all good EFC websites, and see how they change, but more importantly have a look at the bench and remember what we had in reserve.

Ian Tunstead
10   Posted 18/01/2010 at 20:55:10

Report abuse

Des and Lee, it has everything to do with in injuries. We will get even better when Arteta and Jags are back, to say ’’it’s only Pienaar of any real quality that’s back’’ is ridiculous. If Vaughan wasn't back to score his goals we might not have beaten Burnley and we might be out the FA Cup. Neville has also had a major impact in steadying the ship and organising the team, being the voice on the pitch.

The reason we ’’lacked confidence’’ is down to injured players. Just by having an Arteta and Jags around would automatically give the rest of the players a lift, especially the younger players like Rodwell, Gosling and Fellaini.

Because of injuries, players have had to play out of position but now we have enough players back in the right positions to balance the side. The defence is also looking more settled because Heitinga doesn't have to play in midfield because of injuries to our midfielders.

So you see, it has everything to do with injuries which leads to all the other problems.

Mike Oates
11   Posted 18/01/2010 at 21:01:07

Report abuse

We started off with 4-5 key players injured, Fellaini’s illness and teeth problems, got tonked by Arsenal, lost to Burnley. Got new recruits in who need time to blend in, started to get our act together then cruely lost Neville and Pinnear,

We were then playing with square pegs in round holes, changing back 4 every week etc etc..... The players lost all what little confidence they had and Moyes was stuck — no replacements, no competition — all sulk.

Pienaar back, Fellaini better, Heitinga found his best position, Neville back, few wins, confidence boomimg and hey presto... pity it took 20 games to find it.

Problem now is that we still have kids on the bench and no competition for places and I suspect we need a bit of luck on the injury front over the next 3-4 weeks or so as we get Rodwell, Jags, Arteta, Anichebe, Yak, Yobo, Gosling back into the picture.

We need at least 35 points from last 63 to get into Europe again via League.

The key period is when we face Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea in a 4 week period in February as well as Sporting Lisbon twice. Come through that with 7-8 points and into the next Europa round will show we are well on the way back and better to boot.
James I'Anson
12   Posted 18/01/2010 at 21:10:42

Report abuse

Lee

How exactly should Moyes have handled the summer transfer window with no money?
Alan Clarke
13   Posted 18/01/2010 at 22:00:43

Report abuse

Saturday’s performance is exactly what frustrates most of us about Moyes. Why can’t we play like that all the time? Those types of performance are still too few and far between. Why didn’t we play like that at Wembley in the Cup Final?

The manager and the players have a lot to do still to make up for the absolute shite that was on show for the first half of this season. If we do now finish strongly the chairman and board must make sure we do not have another farcical summer in the transfer market.
Colin Southern
14   Posted 18/01/2010 at 21:58:25

Report abuse

Nice on James, that made me laugh.

I don't know how people can blame Moyes for the transfer fiacso at the start of every season. He said himself ’I identify players to the board and they go and try their best to sign them’. He also said its difficult trying to sign players on low fees and low wages. That's why we always will be trumped by the likes of Hull or Fulham for good players.

Added to this is that we don't actually get any monies until the last days of the transfer window. So how is it his fault? I can't see a manger nowadays having anything to do with contract clauses and signing on fees — that's the Chairmans and the MD’s job.

The problem is that we are skint and we have to scrape and be creative financially to bring in the calibre of players Moyes wants for the squad.

Colin Southern
15   Posted 18/01/2010 at 22:09:58

Report abuse

Alan, have you not read the thread properly?

There are 3 reasons we been rubbish:
1) Injuries
2) Injuries
3) Injuries

Bloody hell Liverpool and Man U have only had a few of their players out and have been carping on about it all season. We’ve had almost a whole team out at some points. It seems obvious to most of us that if you have a settled team then you start to play more fluently together.

Come on, give it a beak, we are starting to sound like that other lot across the Park.
Ian Tunstead
16   Posted 18/01/2010 at 22:34:31

Report abuse

Alan, the reason we dont play like that everyweek is because the players are not robots and most importantly because of injuries. The reason we didn't play like that in the final is because Chelsea were probably the best team in Europe at the time and we had our three best players missing. If you remember right, Chelsea were robbed against Barcelona the eventual European Champions. So why should we do any better than Barcelona?
Kieran Kelly
17   Posted 18/01/2010 at 22:52:54

Report abuse

Mike. It’s 35 points from 51. Not 63. You must be remembering the old 42 game leagues. So that’s a tough ask. We’d need to win 7 or 8 on the spin. Not impossible, we’ve done it in the past, but unlikely.
Derek Thomas
18   Posted 19/01/2010 at 01:48:41

Report abuse

Andy, you ask ’ what has gone right ’. The answer is... well actually nothing, just the things that went wrong (all the usual suspects and any permutation thereof) have faded away, the annual jinx, hex, spell, bad luck, injuries, poor management, lack of money, DK, contracts, moves and general dummy spitting etc etc etc have played themselves out and now we can get on with having YET ANOTHER of Moyeses 50% seasons.

Am I knocking Moyes?? I though he ’could’ have been the Blue Shankly, pie in the sky? Well he could have. But he wasn’t a Shankly, close, but not quite, close only works for horseshoes and handgrenades. Nor does he have, to back him up, a Paisley.

So is it churlish to moan about these 50%’s especially when we are doing well. IMHO no, so long as we realise this when we are on the downslope and not get too carried away.

It’s about expectations, when it’s good we want better, those who are old enough to have actually SEEN better and for that matter BEST, know what it is and how good it can be when (Mr Marsh’s point less the vitriol)... when it’s poor we want scapegoats, it’s that simple, we are but imperfect beings, so get over it.

As Descartes never said, ’I pay therefore I will moan’ — or this week cheer.
Robbie Shields
19   Posted 19/01/2010 at 03:12:32

Report abuse

Derek, inciteful post and I agree with everything you said.

Ian, your are the very definition of a Moyes apologist. Everything that goes right is because of Moyes, everything that goes wrong is out of his control.

Apparently we are playing fabulous football (Genuinely fabulous for 2 games on the trot now! not a season!) because our injuries have cleared up! Yet we still have out Arteta, Jagielka, Yakubu, Yobo, Rodwell, Anichebe, Gosling, Osman & Hibbert. Your thinking process is so limited it’s untrue. I think I better point out to you that you can only play 11 players at once, the way you are going on I half suspect you think we can have 22 players on the field in an Everton shirt.

Moyes makes mistakes...... lots of them....... but sometimes he learns from them....... slowly.......... lets see if he has learnt another one and manages to keep this level of performance up by having the best players in their best positions shall we? If Neville goes back into midfield it will all fall apart.
Iain Love
20   Posted 19/01/2010 at 08:23:54

Report abuse

Robbie, Key phrase ’Best players in their best positions’.

I would also point out that Saturday's team did not have any obvious weak links, people talk about match winners but you can also have match losers, by either playing out of position, loss of form, carrying niggles, or simply not up to the task.

Certain players do get a lot of stick and if enough people are saying the same thing, it’s probably correct. Saturday's team contained no-one who gets regular stick and everyone in their favoured position. The concern is would Moyes have played that team, in those positions, if everyone was available? Sadly, I don't think he would have.

Andy Crooks
21   Posted 19/01/2010 at 10:54:54

Report abuse

Interesting post, Derek. We talk about Everton’s dreadful luck with injuries, which is true... However, I’m coming round to the view that David Moyes is a lucky manager who falls onto his best formation and tactics through chance. Shite, I’m just dithering again.
Colin Southern
22   Posted 19/01/2010 at 11:16:48

Report abuse

Andy, that's complete bollocks. Lucky, for seven years? Maybe you could say the same about Kendall then, his great 80s side which was inconsistent and was struggling then it all clicked and they gained confidence from that initial infamous victory. No I’m not having any of that, players are not robots and are affected by the same stuff as everybody else.

As for lucky, you can point that acusation at the FSW in his 1st season, but he’s been found out well and truly now. Where we've gradually improved over time.
Dave Randles
23   Posted 19/01/2010 at 11:51:35

Report abuse

Jay Harris.

Three words.

NAIL ON HEAD.

Injuries aside, because they obviously never helped! Moyes spits the dummy every summer. (Can’t say I blame him with the clown of a boss he has though!)

His body language changes after five or six weeks or so and this I believe rubs off on the players. His mindset gradually improves and Finch Farm/Goodison suddenly become better places to be.

I have worked at places where the atmosphere literally changes with the first word out of the gaffer’s mouth. Why should a football club be any different?
Ian Tunstead
24   Posted 19/01/2010 at 12:08:52

Report abuse

Robbie, 14 players can make the difference in a game when you include substitutes. Just to have options from the bench can be crucial. Look at the Burnley game or Carlisle game for example. If Vaughan, Neville and Coleman were still injured we might have lost both games or only got a draw from them.

Our performances have been getting better for some time since Pienaar returned. They stepped up another gear or two when Vaughan and Neville got back against Burnley. As a result, confidence has grown and performances have gone up another gear.

No doubt when Arteta, Jagielka and Yakubu return, we will start demolishing teams by 5s and 6s.
Des Farren
25   Posted 19/01/2010 at 12:08:06

Report abuse

Ian, Just to sum up your argument:

All of our problems can be attributed to our injuries ergo if a team have injuries they play worse. When these injuries heal, the team plays better. Hence your case that, with a few more players available, our narrow losses would become draws and our 1-1 draws would become wins.

These assumptions are so misguided that any kind of rational response would be futile. Btw I always understood that part of a manager's job was to get the best performance possible from his (available) players. And you think he has done for the last 5 months? Moyes himself would not agree.

David Alexander
26   Posted 19/01/2010 at 12:47:23

Report abuse

No offence meant by this Andy but most likely it can be explained by saying you were wrong, and there most definitely were more than three worse sides in the division.
Ian Tunstead
27   Posted 19/01/2010 at 12:41:20

Report abuse

Des, let’s be honest there have been times during the season when the team has been very poor but Moyes had no other options apart from 16- and 17-year-olds, especially just after the Portsmouth game when Pienaar got injured. As I have said, only for Vaughan getting fit for the Burnley game it would have been a draw instead of a win, which proves I am not so misguided.

I also think Moyes was getting the best out of his players as he has for the past 7 years and got the team to punch above their weight. As Cahill has said, they would run through brick walls for him.
Ian Tunstead
28   Posted 19/01/2010 at 13:25:34

Report abuse

Robbie you call me a ’’Moyes apologist’’ like it is some kind of insult. Well nothing could be further from the truth. I am proud that I have defended Moyes through thick and thin when I knew he would turn things around, just as he has done in the past. If people like you had more say, this club would be in a very bad way.

Andy asked a question and I answered it for him, he refused to believe me a few months back but I told him exactly what would happen and it is happening. Now you are refusing to believe me and you will be proven wrong again, just like Andy was, but at least he now has guts to admit he was wrong.
Kenny Lloyd
29   Posted 19/01/2010 at 13:58:36

Report abuse

In fairness to Ian, football these days is generally acknowledged as a squad game. We don’t have the biggest squad, even with everyone fit, so I do think that at the start of the season, injuries had an effect. I don’t think it is the only reason for our start to the season but along with a lack funds for Moyes, it was one of the main catalysts IMO.

We also had new signings trying to settle into a struggling team. Heitinga for example is now settled and playing better than he was a few months ago, same for Bily who seems to be improving steadily. I’m sure Moyes would have liked to have had the option to bed the new signings in slowly but didn’t have any options with which to do this. Fellaini also had health problems at the start and is now playing better.

Lots of teams have bad starts / bad runs during the season, even the acknowledged top managers – does this mean that they aren’t getting the best out of their players? I don’t think so and think that’s too simplistic a view.

Of course there are blips / horror shows along the way (Hull away… oh dear) but the way we continually bounce back from our troubles and bad starts actually says the opposite about Moyes and him getting the best out of his players. It would seem that he does indeed unify the players and get the best out of them.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb