The Mail Bag
What if Fellani Left?
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The big clubs in the Premier Leagues just love to steal our excellent products: Wayne Rooney to Man United, Francis Jeffers to Arsenal, Joleon Lescott to Man City. Abel Xavier and Nick Barmby to Liverpool can be considered as good examples as well.
Now, there is talk of big clubs trying to steal Marouane Fellaini. I say this is not an impossibility. If anything, David Moyes should make preparations from now as to this credible possibility.
But, I believe in my heart that, should Fellaini go, we will still be alright. I believe Fellaini has upped the standard for our midfielders to emulate and anyone wanting the Defensive Midfield position for Everton must either match or exceeds Fellaini’s work rate and ability.
And Fellaini will not have the same support structure that he has at Everton to perform the way he does right now. He definitely will not have the same working spirit he is enjoying at Everton. I believe he will wither into oblivion should he leave Everton now.
I think Jack Rodwell, after witnessing how Fellaini has succeeded in the DM position, will rise up to the occasion when it calls for. Jack already shone in the first part of the season and he is the closest replacement we have to Fellaini.
Also, with the multi-million bucks that we will be forcing the likes of Real Madrid, Chelski, Man U, Barcelona etc to cough up (if it’s anything below £50M then it’s a crime) we can replace and get more good talents to fill up holes in other deparment while keeping Rodwell.
As of now, let's enjoy the rest of the season and hope some rich Arabs will come and pump money into Everton, the only Premier League club worth pumping money into at the moment.
Rahman Talib, Posted 19/01/2010 at 08:08:13
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Why talk about the possibility of him leaving!
He has been playing well recently but his form has been up and down since he came.
IF he contines his recent form for the rest of the season.... the only thing Moyes should possibly be preparing for is a new contract.
Secondly, he doesn’t play defensive midfield.
Thirdly, we’re skint and will continue to be skint for a long time.
Fourthly, the best players go to the best teams... there’s nothing knew in that fundamental of football economics.
All we can do is try and tie them to a contract that is as long as possible to keep the price high, hope we can match their ambition, and cross our fingers that the players aren’t motivated purely by money and would realise they are better off at a club where they play regularly and are worshipped by real fans and not swallowed up ina squad system elsewhere.
Also, apart from Rooney, it's worth noting that none of the other players mentioned above had any real success at their new "bigger" clubs.
Let's say we recieved a big offer for him... £30m, wether we wanted to accept that or not, the key factor will be Fellaini himself. Will he want to go to one of the so-called bigger clubs or will he say "I’ll give it another year with Everton, I’m only 22, I can wait a season and see"?
His performance the other night was as good as Viera at his best (say what you want about Barry & De Jong, they are very good players) and if maintained he could have his pick of teams. The reason he came to Everton was advancing his carreer, playing in probably the best league that suits his style, money and Everton the best team outside of the top 4. Saying that, he would want to go. Hopefully he’ll stay at least another year.
The future of our first XI needs to be built around the likes of Rodwell, Duffy and Coleman at the back, Mo and whomever makes the grade out of Baxter, Gosling, Wallace, Akpan in the middle and Vaughan (providing neither of his legs drop off) up front.
By phasing out the elder talent and bringing the youth through (particularly retaining our younger ’stars’ ) we can maintain the stability that has allowed us to outperform our spending power in the last few years.
By all means sell on those who have peaked (Lescott, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and Bily) once they’ve peaked, but we should never sell those players who are only going to accrue value — we simply can’t afford to if we ever want to hit the heights again.
He is playing centre-midfield and is up and down the pitch like a whippet... (relatively speaking).
We all hope he is here to stay and continue with this level of play and it can only serve to encourage the others around him to maintain theirs too, thus benefitting the team. Question, would not a smaller afro increase his speed?
Very pertinent point...
Now that Fellaini has actually started to move about with more urgency than Howard Marks....it’s obvious that his barnet may actually be affecting his pace...
The way it bends back as he runs indicates it’s a significant impediment to optimum aero dynamics..
The question is one of proportionality...Does the benefit of gaining extra pace outweight the detriment of looking fucking hilarious?
I’m not so sure....
That's a knee jerk reaction right? To what his father apparently said? If Everton ever decided to sell, it would be to a price both sides agreed on, like Joleon Lescott for £20 odd mill. Now that was a crime.
Anyway, back to the case in point. A bit of a reality check is needed. He has played really well the last two months. Would I swap him tomorrow for Essien or Fabregas amongst others? You betcha!
Hang on a minute, have you spelt your surname correctly?
"Oh and he certainly hasn’t been playing holding midfield." - Oh yes he does.
The fact that he gets up the pitch too does not negate his default position on the team.
The notion that David Moyes, Fellaini himself and all the media are agreed on his position, but that they are all wrong and our venerable Toffeeweb Oracle has yet another piece of pedantic mystery to convey is nonsense.
Fellaini made his name as a holding midfielder and that is where he currently plays. Get used to it. Hopefully there are no further hairs left to split.
Everything I was going to say, eloquently put.
Which is unequivocally the centre of the park.
He simply cannot be defined as a holding midfielder, because he cannot be pigeon-holed into that position on the basis of where he been playing in the last 6 games.
You’re displaying an acute lack of appreciation of what the holding position requires... the clue's in the name.
.....or ’the entire media’...??
If you could do it without displaying the bitterness of a scorned child — that would be just fantastic.
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I disagree. If you watch Sunday’s game again you’ll see that the majority of times we have the ball offensively, Fellaini is in the middle linking up this play and being responsible for the creativity as equally as Pienaar.
There seems to be a tendency to think that someone must be playing a holding role if there’s a five man midfield on show...not necessarily so, and I certainly haven’t seen Fellaini holding back any more than he’s been going forward....
For me, he’s been playing box-to-box traditional centre midfield...
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Ciaran - Thats a bit rich coming from you. Are you a big boy now? Anyway, why are you worried about where Fellaini plays because, according to you, he’s shite. You’ve been saying so on here for the last twelve months.
If so I suggest getting on with it and stop trying to be the new Tony Marsh.
At least Tony has a point which makes things so much more interesting for the listener or in this case reader.
"But I can see signs now that he is beginning to get to top form and be good for the team."
"He has played deeper for the last three or four games and he is getting better at it. He is beginning to understand the duties. He is settling down and not chasing everything all over the pitch.
David Moyes quoted in almost every media before the Burnley game.
And seriously lads, what about the hair? Is it impacting Fellaini’s performances? Should we open a new thread on this one?
"I was bought as a defensive midfielder but because of the injuries we suffered last season I ended up being moved around, so I’m a lot happier now I’m back in my favoured position," he admits. "I’m feeling very happy with what I’m doing at this club, although I always think it’s up to others to say how you are playing. But I feel I have adapted and am playing well."
Fellaini. Also direct quotes.
He is playing in the holding role.
Patrick Vieira, scored goals for Arsenal, HOLDING MIDFIELDER.
Roy Keane, scored goals for Man U, HOLDING MIDFIELDER.
Felliani, HOLDING MIDFIELDER.
Please go to mysoccerplace.net and watch the match of the day highlights again, then have a think about the deep role that the big Fella is occupying and tell me that is not a holding midfield role.....he seems on nearly every occasion to be our deepest midfielder. I think that is what a holding midfielder ahem does!
Stevie " one joke" Edwards and his 13 quip..?
Get on with your job? Jesus, you guys have really got the hang of this debating and opinions stuff...
Micky, Moyes as you quote says he is playing deeper... considering he was playing the Cahill role before — that means Moyes could just as easily be saying he is playing centre midfield.
What he was bought for and what he is doing on the pitch are two entirely different matters.
Luk Berry, Highlights?
You fancy backing this up Mr Edwards? I’ve been consistently saying that Fellaini has potential but needs better players around him before we can judge him...
It’s not like you to make something up.
Mr Edwards Your fascination with 13-year-olds is really a bit disturbing. Do you sign any kind of register?
What is certain is this: our midfield against City was: Donovan, Pienaar, Fellaini, Bily, Cahill.
Fellaini was clearly the most defensive midfielder we had on the park by a country mile.
Mr Geoff Edwards — I’ll buy that for a dollar.
Moyes may well have told Fellaini to play a defensive role but he would have expected him and anyone else for that matter to respond to whatever team mates and opposition are doing. Against City the big fella continuously switched from defence to attack but was only able to do that because our entire team was ’up’ for it and, after the first few minutes, City were woeful.
Another thing to be considered was City lost a key striker after ten minutes. That surely would have had a detrimental affect on their game.
Ciaran, I am in complete agreement.
Our tradiational use of the 4-5-1 didn’t have the fludity that we are getting now.
Because of the limitations of our midfielders, we utilised a rigid 4-5-1 that included planting a player (or sometimes two) right in front of the back four... and they rarely moved from that position, simply breaking up play and little else. This rigidity also led to us defendig very deep as the lack of forward movement from the holding player tended to scare the defence into staying back.
We haven’t been using this rigid structure recently... the creativity and defensive duties have been split pretty evenly between the two central midfield players... and that’s why I don’t think Felllaini can be considered as playing the holding role...
Flat Earth society?
No, simply an opinion based on observation — I suppose I could be lazy and just repeat what the press say...
Cherrypicking is a necessity in here...
It is impossible to conduct a debate with a dogmatist. Therefore, on that basis, I give up.
I have produced to you prima facie evidence of the role and position of Fellaini as expressed by the player himself and his manager, yet you still deny it. There is no hope for you.
Fellaini was up and down all through the game, hence, not a ’holding’ midfielder. Yes, he defended more than he attacked, but you can’t class him as a holding midfielder! A holding midfielder never gets ahead of the ball. Think of Claude Makelele. Never got ahead of the ball.
The main reason Fellaini managed to get forward so much was due to our defence being positive and squeezing play and getting a foot in up the pitch, rather than backing off towards our own goal, which we do so often. I think Heitinga and the return of Neville to be the main reason for this positivity in defence.
Anyway, why is it fans assume that a team has to have a holding midfielder? The greatest Everton team of all time had no holding midfielder. Watch any footage of Peter Reid and Paul Bracewell dovetailing together, both box-to-box for 90 minutes. Awesome!
I can’t wait till Saturday!
By the way, cut out the latin. The crusades are over...
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Have they really?
The use of 'et cetera' at the end there!! Have you only just remembered that the crusades are over? Or are you a complete idiot?
He sits in front of the defence, wins tackles and headers, break up play and picks the ball up off the defence... Thats' holding midfield.
Fellaini has come out and said “this is my best position, I prefer defensive mid”. Moyes and the rest of the squad have all come out and said the same thing: “Fellaini is finally playing well 'cos he is back in the holding role.”
He plays holding midfield.
Also he says it himself, he might get forward but his main role is to cut out attacks which he did superbly against Bellamy.
I don't no maybe he can do nothing right in some people's eyes like defy his manager with a MotM performance, in defensive attacking Cahill midfield role.
To be frank, what does it matter if he plays like that — maybe it should be renamed the Fellaini role...
Also, when decent teams are bossing a match, Total Football tends to come to the fore and Fellaini exemplified this on Saturday. Now as we fell back in order, maintaining shape, Fellaini was most often anchoring the midfield, sat in front of the back four.
If we are getting pumelled in a match, I am sure Fellaini would be less able to maraud forward in a box-to-box fashion, and will more obviously be shielding the back four.
I think the problem was with Ciaran denying Fellaini was a defensive midfielder and at first offering no qualifying statement.
As to tactics advancing since the 80s, and no doubt they have, don’t forget Ramsey’s "Wingless Wonders" were essentially a 4-4-2 diamond formation with Nobby the destroyer deployed in front of the back 4, and B Charlton linking the midfield and the front 2.
Besides, the Everton manager, David Moyes, did not buy with goals in mind and is now satisfied Fellaini is fit for his original purpose.
"Last season I was playing him further forward and that was because he wasn’t disciplined enough in the defensive midfield role at the time. A lot of the things went on around him very quickly and he wanted to be involved in everything," said Moyes. "I think the fans were probably wondering ’What is he?’ But undoubtedly he is a really talented football player and we’re beginning to see the fruits of that now."
e.g "secondly, he doesn’t play midfield."
You think you debate but you don’t, you regularly dismiss peoples opinions as if you are some authority on the subject, no matter what the subject, then get into pedantic arguenents about wording rather than accept any valid counter arguments.
Anyway, my two cents. Carry on.
Comparing Ciaran to T Marsh is off the mark. Ciaran states his opinions and presents his case. Isn’t that the purpose of the TW.
ffs guys get a grip, and move on
He didn’t provide any quotes of Moyes saying he was playing a holding position... he did however provide one of Moyes saying he was playing deeper.
Hardly the same thing I think you’ll agree — especially considering his previous role was Cahill’s advanced midfield position...
I hope this satisfies your point too, Mr Leyland.
It was more in this decade that pioneers such as Lee Carsley rose to the fore as ’holding midfielders’, sitting and screening the back 4 and never really going beyond the ball. Carsley then passed the ’holding midfielder’ baton onto lesser, mainly gallic, men such as Didier Deschamps and Claude Makalele, who have performed the role with equal effectiveness but less panache.
The whole things been called off because Moyes said he’s been playing deeper...
To summarise the two threads...getting annoyed at newspapers is really a bit silly. Those who didn’t criticise the team when we were playing well, are not the chosen ones -
And in my opinion we are not playing with a five man midfield that is employing a rigid holding player...
Oh and the boys were superb on Saturday... a point which seems to have been lost in all of this.
I can’t wait to watch the Birmingham match on Saturday.
Take a look at TW own comments on the player.
However, I think we can all agree he is playing better, he’s happy, the team is playing better and long may it continue!
Everton midfielder Marouane Fellaini believes it is no coincidence that his recent upturn in form has come with a move back to his favoured defensive midfield position.
"I’ve always said that this is my best position,"
the £15m record signing, who has been used as a second striker at times this season, said.
"I’m enjoying playing here again. I just do my job out there on the field. I try to do my best."
He's gonna say "oh its my best position" in the press cos hes being poked for soundbites and hes playing well so he's gonna go along with it.
If he's strictly a "holding" midfielder, what was he doing on the byline crossing for Vaughan to score against Burnley! (It was him wasnt it!?)
However, what’s the difference between this and Everton sigining Lescott from Wolves and Cahill from Millwall? At the time, both these clubs were in the Championship and I am sure their fans were not overjoyed at the prospect of losing these players.
I hope that Fellaini stays with us for many more seasons, at 22 he has yet to reach his peak. I am sure when he does, the money we paid for him will seem to have been a very good investment. Should the "unthinkable " happen, then I would hope that the powers that be at Goodison would make sure that the transfer fee was a good one and just as important I feel, that we have a replacement lined up.
Not too many Gooners were happy at the thought of losing Henry, but then Wenger gets Adebayor - now he has gone then AW has other alternatives. Team building is an on-going process after all. But hopefully we shall be seeing Fellaini at Everton for many more years to come.
Moyes’s replacements aren't half bad anyway as we got Jonny, Bily and Distin from the Lescott robbery.
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1 Posted 19/01/2010 at 14:58:48
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