The Mail Bag
Clueless Everton
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Well, another tactically magnificent performance from Everton. Hoofball against ten men and, even more disgracefully, a complete lack of fight.
I have been disappointed many, many times in the past but today Everton FC have surpassed themselves. No invention, no guile and no penetration against one of the worst Liverpool teams in the past 30 years. (And if they are the worst where does that leave us?)
I don't want hear that it is "hard" against ten men or Liverpool defended well — I am sick to death of the crap style of football that Moyes employs against the big boys.
We beat Man City, so fucking what! Moyes's record against any of the top 4 is garbage, the players are frightened and Moyes is completely unable to set a team up to win against them.
They can all fuck off... another weekend of gloating reds whilst those bastards on the pitch and in the dug out draw their £40k a week.
Alan Flynn, Posted 06/02/2010 at 11:51:09
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You know this is just fucking typical Everton. One of the best opportunties in years to beat a shite liverpool side at Anfield and then an advantage of an extra and we still fuck it up!!!!! It’s all well playing great stuff against the sides outside the top four but why doesnt David Fucking Moyes have a go a seize the opportunity when he gets one?
Take advantage of the extra man, you moron!!!! Rather than sitting on the fence for a bloody draw.
Take advantage of the extra man, you moron!!!! Rather than sitting on the fence for a bloody draw.
I personally believe in his time as Everton Manager he won’t win at any of the so-called top four. He simply can’t out-think and out-number his rival manager tactically.
The most incredible humiliation possible. An extra man for the majority of the game, and completely fucked it up. I am absolutely ashamed of my club being represented by such a bunch of heartless shithouses.
Well after so much optimism leading up to the game the lads deliver yet another awful Derby performance. Even with ten men we have one meaningful shot on goal after 89 mins.
Does Moyes know how to go for the jugular like most top managers do? He looks lost against the Big 4. Why was Arteta sitting in front of the back four for most of the game?
Seriously, why was Ossie playing, he is shite at best, time after time he fails to deliver. Neville, loads of effort but no skill or even basics like trapping the ball and passing along the floor.
One positive.... I thought Landon had a good game the only 1 to attack and not just pass it sideways or back to Tim.
Suppose it's not too bad... only Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs to come soon.
As if getting beat isn't enough, we get beat playing against ten men for an hour or so and show no bottle, no guile, and no desire... There was a moment when you could actually see that Everton to a man thought "We've lost one-nil here and that's that"... and that was with over twenty minutes to go.
Absolute shite! They should all forego their wage for this week... apart from maybe Fellaini.
As much as we deserved to get something out of the derby at Goodison, we got exactly what we deserved with this performance. There was no-one in the second half who looked like they could open up a massed defence. The attacks were pedestrian at best and lacked inspiration.
Yes we missed a glorious chance in the first half but you could argue we could have been down to 9 as Fellaini and possibly Pienaar should have been sent off in the first half.
Neville, Osman et al should now by now talk is cheap — it's what you do on the pitch that counts. They certainly owe the fans a performance on Wednesday. Play like they have today and the result will be depressingly the same against Chelsea. Can anyone say that, apart from the Arsenal and City performances, we have really raised our game?
I did, I used to think that anyone who hated the RS was a little over the top. I mean, I don't like them... but hate? Well, after today's game I consider hate quite an appropriate description of my feelings towards Steven G.
Now don't get me wrong, until Fellaini was injured I thought we had the beating of Liverpool; once he had gone, we lost momentum and it was plain to see how important he is becoming to the team.
We struggled for shape and ideas, even with Arteta who is still not match fit, but it was the way Liverpool played the man, every time, that got to me. The intentional way Pienaar was dealt to by the Liverpool captain was disgraceful. Not since I saw Jimmy Husband taken out against Spurs all those years ago have I seen an act of such malice. Yes, hate is a bad word, emotive too, but sadly accurate.
We lost our way, they didn't beat us playing football but they beat us and they shouldn't have. Our own fault and that hurts too.
I hear what your saying Christine, apart from the beahviour you mention, did you see the horrible tiny foreheaded twat nipping away at the ref every time he did’nt agree with a decision? He’s been doing that for years the obnoxious twat.
Saying that though, I was ashamed of our predictable performance today. One fucking shot on target!!! I know the players never turned up today but its fucking David Moyes’ job to change things and get his message onto the pitch when things are not working out. Im fucking fed up of this shit. Groundhog cunting day.
One last thing, and this is going off topic, I will not be able to watch England now in the Summer as I despise fucking Gerrard that much. I just cannot cheer a team that the horrible cunt turns out for. Fact.
Saying that though, I was ashamed of our predictable performance today. One fucking shot on target!!! I know the players never turned up today but its fucking David Moyes’ job to change things and get his message onto the pitch when things are not working out. Im fucking fed up of this shit. Groundhog cunting day.
One last thing, and this is going off topic, I will not be able to watch England now in the Summer as I despise fucking Gerrard that much. I just cannot cheer a team that the horrible cunt turns out for. Fact.
I think we are where we are, we’ve heard a lot of our injuries and if we would have had all the players fit we’d be top 4, but ask yourself this if any of the Sky 3 would’ve played against a 10 man RS, would they have been beaten? Let’s look at Pienaar our flair player, nice player and I like him a lot, but when was the last time he looked like a playeragainst the sky 4. How did did he do today? ok, but no matchwinner, and you can look at all of our players and you can say the same thing, there isn’t a matchwinner amonst them at the sharp end of the division.
I’ve said it before, it’s games like this, that show Moyes is always going to be a half - decent manager, nothing more. When they went down to 10 men, he should have grown a pair of balls and went 4-4-2, and made the most of the extra man, but instead he goes with the fucking safety first approach.
Some people say the shite are worried about us, because we are getting closer to them all the time, well, today was the wake up call, we are as far away as we have ever been, and the worst thing of all, this is possibly the shittest redshite team I have ever seen.
Some people say the shite are worried about us, because we are getting closer to them all the time, well, today was the wake up call, we are as far away as we have ever been, and the worst thing of all, this is possibly the shittest redshite team I have ever seen.
Moyes said: "We didn’t play badly and didn’t deserve to lose the game, so that is disappointing.
"There were no real problems with the performance. I have told the players we will keep doing it - we just didn’t have quite enough at the top end of the pitch today."
---
That comment is a disgrace from the manager. Absolute shambles.
"There were no real problems with the performance. I have told the players we will keep doing it - we just didn’t have quite enough at the top end of the pitch today."
---
That comment is a disgrace from the manager. Absolute shambles.
If you make an exception for the Peter Reid team Everton have always Flattered only to deceive. We"choke" on the big occassions like "Derby Games". Osman is a classic example with his statements about what he/the team will do and then he disappears up his own arse! Put simply, in Gerrard and Carragher Liverpool have two of the games mentally strongest players, although Gerrard can pick his games. A game of 11 against 11 all you have to do is match your opponents in commitment and if you loose then Ok it may just be that your opponents had that little bit of extra skill or luck on the day. Everton went into this game saying all the "right things" but I just wonder how many of our players have "the bottle" for it and also truly belive they can win against the "top four". If you go strictly on results facts would say we choke. As the old saying goes "when all is said and done there is more said than done."In Everton’s case it would seem to be true. I am season ticket holder and a supporter for over 50yrs. I don’t do Derby Games anymore for the simple reason that they fucked my head for too many days afterwards.Not sure if Moyes is a "Choker" as only history will know that for sure. However the stats are starting to point that way and no matter what is said statistics do not lie! Another **ckin weekend of listening to bleating red noses and the most infuriating thing of all is knowing both derby games this season were won by a Liverpool team vastly inferior to some of the previous sides. BUT they have still won!!
Got back from work switched the telly on to catch the last 20 mins, after 2 mins switched it off, seen this fuckin film too many times.
How the Red Shite must love us turning up they’re in deep shit but count on us to come to the rescue by dropping our pants again. Against 10 fuckers as well, when will it ever end?
How the Red Shite must love us turning up they’re in deep shit but count on us to come to the rescue by dropping our pants again. Against 10 fuckers as well, when will it ever end?
What a load of shite. Plain and simple. Most of them wouldn’t get a kick in a horsebox.
Was this really the same Everton team that made a show of Man City at Goodison and dominated and scored twice against Arsenal at the Emirates??
I’ll make no excuses, we deserved nothing out of this Derby, the second half performance was pathetic and if we had of scored, I’d of felt sorry for Liverpool later on.
We say were a club challenging for a "top four" place year in year out, so why is it then, we simply fall to fucking pieces against our so called "League rivals"?
We haven’t won away at a top four club since 1999, even clubs like Hull, Bolton and Boro have achieved that since.
Our constant negative play when we go away to big teams is fucking annoying, why don’t we ever travel to these places with the mentallity that we are playing them at Goodison or that were playing a struggling side? instead of fearing every pass they make and almost standing in "awe" of them, it fucking pisses me off.
That was, and I’ll say again, embarassing, if that is supposed to be Liverpool’s "worst team in 40 years" then I’m sorry, but where does that leave us?
Answers on a postcard. Please.
Their worst season, and worst team in four decades, yet they still piss a League ’double’ over us at a canter.
Oh, and we lose Fellaini and Pienaar, two of our best players.
I’ll make no excuses, we deserved nothing out of this Derby, the second half performance was pathetic and if we had of scored, I’d of felt sorry for Liverpool later on.
We say were a club challenging for a "top four" place year in year out, so why is it then, we simply fall to fucking pieces against our so called "League rivals"?
We haven’t won away at a top four club since 1999, even clubs like Hull, Bolton and Boro have achieved that since.
Our constant negative play when we go away to big teams is fucking annoying, why don’t we ever travel to these places with the mentallity that we are playing them at Goodison or that were playing a struggling side? instead of fearing every pass they make and almost standing in "awe" of them, it fucking pisses me off.
That was, and I’ll say again, embarassing, if that is supposed to be Liverpool’s "worst team in 40 years" then I’m sorry, but where does that leave us?
Answers on a postcard. Please.
Their worst season, and worst team in four decades, yet they still piss a League ’double’ over us at a canter.
Oh, and we lose Fellaini and Pienaar, two of our best players.
This has to be one of the worst displays from an Everton-side in modern time. Fucking useless crap!
I don’t care if Gerrard or anybody else for that matter in that red shit-team is a stupid cunt. There is still one thing that is much worse that those 10 cunts in red that finished the game. And that is those 11 loosers in blue. Fucking disgrace is this!
If we are playing against 10 men for more than half a match, there is no way we should end up as loosers. But we did. If you don’t want to win the match, you will not do it either. But if Everton really DID want to win this match and yet, play this badly... Something is very very wrong here.
I am fed up of hearing about the "Shite" and the poor twat that is the FSW and that this "shite-team" is nothing without Torres. Wake up for heavens sake! They beat us not only without Torres. They did beat us with just ten men! That fat spanish waiter did out-master our so called manager of the month.
We also conceded from a set-piece situation witch is supposed to be our speciality. We brought on two guys for the last 20 minutes, who looked like it was the only 20 minutes of football they had ever played.
Where are the dogs of war spirit when you need it. Gerrard wouldn’t have survived a midfield battle against Horne, Parkinson and Ebbrell. Kyrgiakos would have been the one carried of the pitch if we had a Duncan Ferguson type of player upfront. If you win the battle in a merseyside derby, you have most probably won the match too.
It is a bloody shame to see the Everton-players being stretched off the pitch, where it should have been the opposite. Stop talking shit and smash the reds once and for all. This is not just a game. This is fucking war!!
I don’t care if Gerrard or anybody else for that matter in that red shit-team is a stupid cunt. There is still one thing that is much worse that those 10 cunts in red that finished the game. And that is those 11 loosers in blue. Fucking disgrace is this!
If we are playing against 10 men for more than half a match, there is no way we should end up as loosers. But we did. If you don’t want to win the match, you will not do it either. But if Everton really DID want to win this match and yet, play this badly... Something is very very wrong here.
I am fed up of hearing about the "Shite" and the poor twat that is the FSW and that this "shite-team" is nothing without Torres. Wake up for heavens sake! They beat us not only without Torres. They did beat us with just ten men! That fat spanish waiter did out-master our so called manager of the month.
We also conceded from a set-piece situation witch is supposed to be our speciality. We brought on two guys for the last 20 minutes, who looked like it was the only 20 minutes of football they had ever played.
Where are the dogs of war spirit when you need it. Gerrard wouldn’t have survived a midfield battle against Horne, Parkinson and Ebbrell. Kyrgiakos would have been the one carried of the pitch if we had a Duncan Ferguson type of player upfront. If you win the battle in a merseyside derby, you have most probably won the match too.
It is a bloody shame to see the Everton-players being stretched off the pitch, where it should have been the opposite. Stop talking shit and smash the reds once and for all. This is not just a game. This is fucking war!!
I posted on the match day thread prior to the game that I believed Moyes selection in two positions would ultimately determine if we’d win or loose. I sited both Osman and Neville as liabilities. Hardly rocket science, Osman never shows up when things get physical and Neville never gets beyond the half way line and his composure goes right out the window when the temperature rises.
I can’t believe that people actually believe this guy is a leader, he bottled it today. How on earth Coleman didn’t get an opportunity today beggars belief. How awful does Neville have to become before Moyes will recognise he offers us absolutely nothing.
I can’t believe that people actually believe this guy is a leader, he bottled it today. How on earth Coleman didn’t get an opportunity today beggars belief. How awful does Neville have to become before Moyes will recognise he offers us absolutely nothing.
We lost today because of Moyes's tactics. I could have written the script before the game kicked off. I know it's been said many times before, but everything is so predictable with Moyes: play a containing game and try and nick a goal; if we concede a goal, never change anything, just carry on with same old boring safety-first tactics... and hope we nick a goal.
Then, with 20 minutes to go, in desperation, throw a couple of subs on and hope for the best. It's all very frustrating watching Everton but that's the way it will always be under Moyes, predictable and boring. We play Chelsea next, still, hope springs eternal...
The second half performance today was worse than Hull City away. Fed up of Everton letting us all down. Neville at fault for not picking Kuyt up for their goal.
This result heads a list of shameful results which illustrate the Moyes conundrum... he can spot a good player but doesn’t know what to do with them.
Stan, we lost today because the players didn’t show up. Saha had an appaling game, no movement... the RS CBs had the most comfortable match they’ll have all season. Pienaar & Donovan were only good in flashes; Osman disappeared.. I could go on. This didn’t have anything to do with tactics, but a failure of players to perform.
Has Moyes got the worst record of all Everton managers in derby games?
Suppose big Joe will know how we all feel right now.
When are you going to have something to smile about, Moyes? You've had long enough.
The game was crying out for Coleman, just like the Birmingham game.
Suppose big Joe will know how we all feel right now.
When are you going to have something to smile about, Moyes? You've had long enough.
The game was crying out for Coleman, just like the Birmingham game.
David: "the players didn’t perform". So why didn’t Moyes change it round then? Isn’t that what subs are for?
Spot on, Christine.P>Do Referees not see Gerrard’s star-dive to win a foul? Or, his clutching of the face when there was NO contact.
It was clear that Mr Atkinson favoured them in every challenge, once he had shown the red. Nonetheless, THEY turned up with passion and drive and WON it. WE didn’t bother.
Neville always promises loads in the press before games; then commits the basic mistake of failing to get goal-side against Kuyt to protect his keeper. And, Osman ducks instead of nodding it away.
We probably knew this was coming — big build up, best chance in years, RS down to ten — and we bottle it!
Today's derby was perhaps one of the most frustrating and infuriating performances I've ever seen from the Blues...
In fairness, we have played very well recently (Birmingham aside) but when was the last time we won a game against one of the so-called top 4? Every single pre-match interview sounds good, gives everyone connected with the club good vibes... but then, when it comes to the game, we are often disappointed.
I can't believe how a team can play so very badly against ten men and in a derby game as well. but this isn't the first time this has happened and surely it's about time that Moyes has a serious rethink over his tactics against both the top 4 and when playing against ten men.
Dennis, while he did favour them 2nd half, as I mentioned in another thread, Pienaar should have been sent off. Fellaini’s 50/50, the greek lad got sent-off, but when they showed you it in slow motion, it was a twat of a challenge by Fellaini as well, he stamps down on the lad's ankle. We got a penalty against city for tugging, which is what Baines was doing to Kuyt, deffo pen, but not given.
So, while we can feel aggrieved, we had some major decisions go our way.
Agreed, Brian. Felli plays a dangerous game and could easily have gone.
Just sheer frustration has me clutching at straws for a lack of effort and passion. We had the skill on the pitch. But so few real attacks and little creativity played straight into their hands.
We played 2nd half as though WE were in front.
Yet, when Donovan went directly at them he looked dangerous and they were flustered, and if Victor had shot when he turned & had the chance... But these direct efforts were all so rare.
Just sheer frustration has me clutching at straws for a lack of effort and passion. We had the skill on the pitch. But so few real attacks and little creativity played straight into their hands.
We played 2nd half as though WE were in front.
Yet, when Donovan went directly at them he looked dangerous and they were flustered, and if Victor had shot when he turned & had the chance... But these direct efforts were all so rare.
SACK MOYES
What was Neville doing for their goal? If you are marking a man at a corner, you mark goal-side, FFS!!!
The worst thing that could have happened to us was them going down to ten men. Under Moyes, we don’t know how to take advantage of an extra man. His only tactic is to keep it tight and pinch a win, usually from a set-piece. Having to take the attacking initiative, forget it...
I am with Dennis and Christine on both Gerard and the ref's lack of protection for Pienaar. Right from the off, Carraghers' "tackle" on Pienaar demonstrated the Reds were alert to our major creative threat and they set out to stifle it and him by any means necessary; and they succeeded.
As for the comment of K Desai calling the manager a moron from the safety of his armchair, may I respectfully observe that the game is played out on a field not as a bloody video game. If anything, we were on the losing side of a physical battle today and creativity particularly around their box went out the window. We had some guys who went missing today.
Isnt' the key word here "shrewd"... that is what a manager must be to out-think his rival. It doesn't matter what we think of the fat controller, he is a shrewd manager and knew how to do it on the day.
Our left side (the so-called dangerous one) was completely nullified, leaving our hopes pinned on either hoof ball or the right side. Absolutely nothing through the middle.
We talk about "guile" on the pitch, but where is DMs guile? He is just not clever enough to turn things round, and if fucking Osman doesn't get the boot soon, and Coleman isn't given a chance, then... well, it just about says it all about DM.... WE NEED A CHANGE... QUICKLY!!!
You think you’ve seen them lose to the RS every way possible... then they go the Tin Mine and prove you wrong, by finding yet another way to lose. Fucken great.
But it wasn’t a one off performance, was it? Surely that game today sums up the entire season far more accurately than the City or Arsenal games.
As to Moyes ... well he’s won Manager of the Season 87 times, so he’s obviously excellent. Not like those knobheads whose teams win pathetic things like trophies.
As to Moyes ... well he’s won Manager of the Season 87 times, so he’s obviously excellent. Not like those knobheads whose teams win pathetic things like trophies.
you know, i’d rather watch, Bent, Kilbane and McFadden take on this bunch than the shit we had to watch today. coz the result may have turned out the same but by god those three would’ve never stopped fighting and giving it their all until the final whistle! and that’s all i ask for. that’s what NSNO means. it’s not a god given right to win, no, just do all you can do and then some more! you don’t have to win but for fuckin christ’s sake show me some pride and passion. Heitinga and Anichebe are the only ones that seemed to have any fight in them! god i miss the dogs of war at times like these.
Mike (McLean): apart from Ferguson, whoever happens to manage Chelsea and until a few years ago, Wenger — who are these ’knobheads whose teams win pathetic things like trophies’?
There must be 88 others including David Moyes by my reckoning...
There must be 88 others including David Moyes by my reckoning...
Basic, and I mean basic errors from Howard and Neville messed it up. Shitty command of the box from Howard and even Neville must know you have to be goal side when defending, the prick.
What a suprise, people that barely post on this site when things are going well have turned up again.
For the record, I am incredibly disappointed not to take advantage today. But sack the manager after losing one in nine? Crawl back into you holes....
For the record, I am incredibly disappointed not to take advantage today. But sack the manager after losing one in nine? Crawl back into you holes....
Kieran,
We cannot afford to sack him, it would cost the club too much. He should have the decency to pack his bags, and fuck off after today.
We cannot afford to sack him, it would cost the club too much. He should have the decency to pack his bags, and fuck off after today.
Key points from todays game
The sending off was correct
Howard was at fault for the goal
Gerrard is a snide cunt.
The sending off was correct
Howard was at fault for the goal
Gerrard is a snide cunt.
Two derbies from hell this year... the only comfort that I have tonight is at least I’m not the only one who's gutted.
Now I’m no Sir Alex but we need to put pressure on a 10-man Liverpool team rather than trying to hold on for a draw in the 47th minute. Pienaar played awfully and couldn’t adapt to the pace of the game. Liverpool were only ever going to score from a set piece. Really, I can only pray we beat them in in the Europa league twice.
It has got to the point of no return now with Moyes. We really should as with the Manchester United games each season just award Liverpool the 6 points. Moyes set out his team today to stifle Liverpool and stop them playing. This was possibly the right option at first, but surely as the game progressed and we had a man advantage we should of changed our system and been more attack minded. Neville offered nothing, why did he not bring Coleman on and try and force Liverpool back on the right or why did he not bring Senderos on and move Hetinga into the holding role allowing our most creative player Arteta to move further forward and get within 30 yards of liverpools goal and create something. I mean i think everyone watching the game could see our tactics were not working and something needed to be changed so we could force our way back into the game. I think the most laughable thing in the whole game was when we had a free kick about 30 yards out with only a few minutes left and instead of throwing everyone forward to see if we could nick a goal we had 4 players outside the box incase they broke away when every single one of the liverpool team was in their own box.
Dan Brierly,
Who the fuck do you think you are? telling people to crawl back into their holes, just because they think moyes is an utter plonker and is clueless to boot. I can only assume you think the clueless prick is still on a learning curve, even after 8 years. Try watching the match with an open mind.
Who the fuck do you think you are? telling people to crawl back into their holes, just because they think moyes is an utter plonker and is clueless to boot. I can only assume you think the clueless prick is still on a learning curve, even after 8 years. Try watching the match with an open mind.
Watched the match with my RS brother in law, we play footie together twice a week and have done for the last 10 or more years.
We where both amazed that when Liverpool went down to 10 men Everton didn’t
1/ Spread the play wide.
2/ revert to a 4-4-2
We where both amazed when Liverpool scored Everton didn’t
1/ Bring on Bily for Ossie and push Pienaar central
2/ Replace Neville with Coleman to increase our attacking threat, esp as Landon had the beating of Insua.
3/ Up our tempo we had some decent ball players on the pitch .
4/ Fuck off the long ball, if your the team with 10 men you think great we can handle this.
At one point a ball was sent in long to 2 Everton players in the box and 7 Liverpool players.
I’ve never put my rose tinted specs on where Moyes is concerned, he has done well for us and i dont think we should be calling for his head, but FFS this fixture has had more red cards than any other, yet we didn’t know or wheren’t prepared for that eventuality, and we didn’t do anything about it even after the half time break when Moyes had his chance to sort it.
Ps Even my brother in law thinks Gerrard is a snide cheating cunt and once again a ref has bought it, how the fuck did Pienaar catch him in the face ? Cunt.
We where both amazed that when Liverpool went down to 10 men Everton didn’t
1/ Spread the play wide.
2/ revert to a 4-4-2
We where both amazed when Liverpool scored Everton didn’t
1/ Bring on Bily for Ossie and push Pienaar central
2/ Replace Neville with Coleman to increase our attacking threat, esp as Landon had the beating of Insua.
3/ Up our tempo we had some decent ball players on the pitch .
4/ Fuck off the long ball, if your the team with 10 men you think great we can handle this.
At one point a ball was sent in long to 2 Everton players in the box and 7 Liverpool players.
I’ve never put my rose tinted specs on where Moyes is concerned, he has done well for us and i dont think we should be calling for his head, but FFS this fixture has had more red cards than any other, yet we didn’t know or wheren’t prepared for that eventuality, and we didn’t do anything about it even after the half time break when Moyes had his chance to sort it.
Ps Even my brother in law thinks Gerrard is a snide cheating cunt and once again a ref has bought it, how the fuck did Pienaar catch him in the face ? Cunt.
The amusement derived from those who offer unquestioning, puppy dog adoration of the Blessed David is equalled only by the admiration I have for their titanium strength barrier protecting them from the understanding of the more glaring deficiencies of his reign.
Noone can doubt he has been hamstrung to an extent by lack of funds. No doubt at all that he has had very limited options at his disposal for the whole of this season. However, part of his duties should entail motivating the professionals under his direction and to come up with a variety of tactics to trouble the opposition. At £67, 500 per week, is it too much to ask that he does his job rather better? Are his critics, as Dan Brierley suggests, garden insects? Or could it be that he, like Messrs Dodd, Tunstead and a couple of others, are not so much interested ina debate, a pursuit of truth, but rather more with the myth of their own infallibility?
Noone can doubt he has been hamstrung to an extent by lack of funds. No doubt at all that he has had very limited options at his disposal for the whole of this season. However, part of his duties should entail motivating the professionals under his direction and to come up with a variety of tactics to trouble the opposition. At £67, 500 per week, is it too much to ask that he does his job rather better? Are his critics, as Dan Brierley suggests, garden insects? Or could it be that he, like Messrs Dodd, Tunstead and a couple of others, are not so much interested ina debate, a pursuit of truth, but rather more with the myth of their own infallibility?
This is the worst Liverpool team in my 38 years of supporting Everton. This year without there stand out striker for both games and today down to ten men for 60 minutes. We have not scored and rarely looked like scoring against them. We are a lightweight team without pace. I am like a stuck record been saying it for 4 years. It only gets us so far. We always over rate our players after they play well v Fulham or Wigan but when it comes down to it in the really big games both the manager and the players are nearly always found wanting
Dan, I gave credit to Moyes ( on here ) against Arsenal and city, but when he uses shithouse, safety first, negative tactics against 10 men, and the worst redshite team I have seen in years, he deserves all the criticism he gets.
Whilst you were dissappointed?Some of us are fucking fuming. I know in the eyes of an apologist the Moysiah can do no wrong, but sometimes you just have to take off those blue tinted specs and look at the game today, and maybe you will realise that Moyes, along with the players out there today fucked up big style, won’t hold my breath though.
Whilst you were dissappointed?Some of us are fucking fuming. I know in the eyes of an apologist the Moysiah can do no wrong, but sometimes you just have to take off those blue tinted specs and look at the game today, and maybe you will realise that Moyes, along with the players out there today fucked up big style, won’t hold my breath though.
Our lack of forward strength worries me. Suddenly, if Saha doesn’t shine, we have nothing.
I would have a mass clear out in the Summer. Yakubu has long enough to get fit. Let’s face it, it isn’t going to happen, so get rid.
Anichebe is never going to be good enough. He has had enough chances. Vaughan is injured far too often. So, reluctantly as I think he could be a good player, I am inclined to ditch him too.
I thought we controlled the game today until the sending off. Having 11 v 10 didn’t compensate for losing Fellaini who, at the moment, is our most important player. Our efforts to break them down were pitiful. The opposition deserved to win even if it was in their game plan to rough up Pienaar and Fellaini.
I posted on another thread, that this had nothing to do with tactics, but that with the exception on Heitinger, nobody played well, so who does DM drag off to make a difference? Some of the posters said Bily should have been on, this is the player who has been found wanting because of the pace of the English game, so putting him on in a game that’s even faster than the ones he’s played in, mightn’t have made much sense. Good shout for Coleman though
It had to do with the motivation of players Moyes has either developed or bought, David.
Reading comments supportive comments of Moyes, I’m at a loss to know what the hell we need a manager for. He clearly has no responsibility for anything!
Reading comments supportive comments of Moyes, I’m at a loss to know what the hell we need a manager for. He clearly has no responsibility for anything!
That’s the problem Mike, in the eyes of some fans, he is immune from criticism for any fuck - up. It’s always someone else’s fault, never his.
My first groan was when I learnt Atkinson was the referree-one of the worst in the league. This was immediately substantiated when the first minute clattering in to Peanuts by Carragher resulted in nothing but a throw-in. This was intended to do more but was sufficient to shake up Peanuts and therafter start the rough stuff and such games we never win even against 10 men.Any goodref.would have sent off Peanuts earlier and Fellaini.Make no mistake Atkinson is bad and should be suspended himself.Having said all that the Blues were crap and deserved to lose. They have very little penetration and hardly any shots from distance when up against a good defence.All the good passing of recent games was gone and we can be happy that Torres was not playing.
Gerrard is a world class player who still make Redshite tick and today we could not stop him.Roll on Europa.
Gerrard is a world class player who still make Redshite tick and today we could not stop him.Roll on Europa.
Brian & Mike, the problem with this site is that if you don’t say Moyes or Kenwright are shite you’re labled an apologist, and I’m not for both men. But in general players are immune from criticism and it’s always the managers fault whereas I think that if you’re getting paid that much money, you should be able to put a shift in, and everyone of the players bar Donovan have experienced a derby so its not as if they were unprepared from the tasty tackles and 150mph football
I think were still moving forward now were getting players back and one result wont change my view point. Star player today is one i’ve given the most stick big vic... He showed the passion of big dunc when it squared up.. Fair play fella
I was disappointed when David Moyes signed his ludicrously inflated contract.I believe that there are too many Evertonians grateful to be in the premier league;happily trotting out the no money excuse..David Moyes is an inept tactician who plays safety first ,negative,appalling,passionless,football.How many times in his reign have you gone home from a game thinking that was great to watch?
I expected to lose today because Moyes lacks confidence against any side he deems to be superior.Our record against the top teams is shameful because our coach thinks we are not good enough to take them on.Another dreadful derby performance.David,the coach takes the blame because he assembled this squad and seems unable to motivate them any longer.Celtic,bring him home,please.
I expected to lose today because Moyes lacks confidence against any side he deems to be superior.Our record against the top teams is shameful because our coach thinks we are not good enough to take them on.Another dreadful derby performance.David,the coach takes the blame because he assembled this squad and seems unable to motivate them any longer.Celtic,bring him home,please.
I don’t believe it’s one or the other. It’s, surely, the job of the players to interpret the wishes of the manager. Both have a task, both are richly rewarded for doing it.
We’ve had a variety of players. The results have been much of a muchness. The one non variable is Moyes.
The site is what posters make of it. I doubt Michael or Lyndon act as servants of a plot to destabilise the club. If sufficient posters believe that Moyes has run his course, then the site will, pretty obviously, reflect that.
There is nothing whatever wrong with the label "apologist". In most circumstances you support Moyes. Good luck to you. Forgive we sinners who think he’s a busted flush.
We’ve had a variety of players. The results have been much of a muchness. The one non variable is Moyes.
The site is what posters make of it. I doubt Michael or Lyndon act as servants of a plot to destabilise the club. If sufficient posters believe that Moyes has run his course, then the site will, pretty obviously, reflect that.
There is nothing whatever wrong with the label "apologist". In most circumstances you support Moyes. Good luck to you. Forgive we sinners who think he’s a busted flush.
Moyes has been rightly criticised, for ultra negative tactics and hoofball (can anyone forgive him for playing 2 holding MF against the mighty Wolves?), but as Gary Lineacre once said on MOTD, good players make good teams, great players make great teams (genius isn’t he?). And maybe that’s our problem, we’re a good not a great team and no amout of coaching will remedy that.
Look at the Arse v manU game last week, when have you ever seen us score goals like that, turning defence to attack in 10 seconds?, with fabulous movement off the ball, or Nani’s sublime piece of skill? and remember theses are the teams that we want to be up there with. It is the movement off the ball that separates the best from the rest, just watch Chelski next week, when anyone gets the ball he’ll have 4-5 players giving him options, couples with top notch players in every postion, we’re still light years behind
Look at the Arse v manU game last week, when have you ever seen us score goals like that, turning defence to attack in 10 seconds?, with fabulous movement off the ball, or Nani’s sublime piece of skill? and remember theses are the teams that we want to be up there with. It is the movement off the ball that separates the best from the rest, just watch Chelski next week, when anyone gets the ball he’ll have 4-5 players giving him options, couples with top notch players in every postion, we’re still light years behind
I’m not being biased when I say this - honestly, Kuyt, Gerrard and Carragher aside, I wouldn’t have taken any other Liverpool player in that side if I were to make a Merseyside XI teamsheet from the two sides.
We lost not because we have an inferior team (in fact, that was the worst Liverpool team I’ve seen in a good decade or two), we lost because we have a manager who is tactically inept to the point of it being comedy, and we lost because too many players bottled it - specifically, Pienaar - who went in studs up to everything because he’s a shithouse, not wanting to get hurt for the World Cup, and Saha, who has got his contract now hasn’t he the cunt.
There has to come a point where we get rid of Moyes - not because he’s not a decent manager, but because he’s ONLY a decent manager. We’re not going to the next level, regardless of investment, whilst Mr. Dour Negative Ginger Scotsman is at the helm.
We lost not because we have an inferior team (in fact, that was the worst Liverpool team I’ve seen in a good decade or two), we lost because we have a manager who is tactically inept to the point of it being comedy, and we lost because too many players bottled it - specifically, Pienaar - who went in studs up to everything because he’s a shithouse, not wanting to get hurt for the World Cup, and Saha, who has got his contract now hasn’t he the cunt.
There has to come a point where we get rid of Moyes - not because he’s not a decent manager, but because he’s ONLY a decent manager. We’re not going to the next level, regardless of investment, whilst Mr. Dour Negative Ginger Scotsman is at the helm.
Ian "I knew we’d play great football and win with style when all our best players are back, you didn’t believe me but I was proved right" Tunstead, why have you gone so quiet?
I’ll tell you why, once again the mighty blues in the most important matches of the season play shite and are outsmarted by the opposition due to the tactical ineptitude of our manager. Chelsea away in Carling Cup semi first leg, Liverpool away a couple of years ago and now today, opposition down to 10 men early doors and we stick with 4-5-1, hoof the ball to a lone striker and can’t pass for toffee (parden the pun). We had back Anichebe, Arteta and Yakuba in addition to all the others who have come back from injury.
So who are the culprits? Moyes and his pathetic I’ll change everything when it’s too late tactics. Their goal was coming, they were more dangerous and had over 60% of the possession WITH TEN MEN! Even when the goal went in Moyes did fuck all, what would SAF do, he’d put at least 1 more attacking player on within a minute. As soon as they went down to 10 men Moyes should have gone 4-4-2 and send a signal out that we are going to get you bastards, but again he did fuck all. By the time he made the changes we believed we were defeated and wouldn’t score in a month of Saturdays.
Our favourite captain, the mighty leader on the pitch Phil Neville (who I criticise widely on here) for the second time at Anfield conceded a goal from a corner, this time, instead of scoring an own goal he decided to go defend against his assigned player by standing not goal side, but the other side, give me strength. I won’t even discuss his standard of play because it was up to his usual standard. Osman again was none existent.
IMWT, do me a favour, IN MOYES WE'RE TOSS!
I’ll tell you why, once again the mighty blues in the most important matches of the season play shite and are outsmarted by the opposition due to the tactical ineptitude of our manager. Chelsea away in Carling Cup semi first leg, Liverpool away a couple of years ago and now today, opposition down to 10 men early doors and we stick with 4-5-1, hoof the ball to a lone striker and can’t pass for toffee (parden the pun). We had back Anichebe, Arteta and Yakuba in addition to all the others who have come back from injury.
So who are the culprits? Moyes and his pathetic I’ll change everything when it’s too late tactics. Their goal was coming, they were more dangerous and had over 60% of the possession WITH TEN MEN! Even when the goal went in Moyes did fuck all, what would SAF do, he’d put at least 1 more attacking player on within a minute. As soon as they went down to 10 men Moyes should have gone 4-4-2 and send a signal out that we are going to get you bastards, but again he did fuck all. By the time he made the changes we believed we were defeated and wouldn’t score in a month of Saturdays.
Our favourite captain, the mighty leader on the pitch Phil Neville (who I criticise widely on here) for the second time at Anfield conceded a goal from a corner, this time, instead of scoring an own goal he decided to go defend against his assigned player by standing not goal side, but the other side, give me strength. I won’t even discuss his standard of play because it was up to his usual standard. Osman again was none existent.
IMWT, do me a favour, IN MOYES WE'RE TOSS!
Why did Moyes do this and why did Moyes do that why didn’t Moyes etc,etc.
Not can’t but WON’T...coulda, woulda, shoulda, a day late and a dollar short etc etc the old litany.
WON’T, not ever, never! drop Pip and put in Coleman and thus fully use Donovan.The game was crying out for width and all out attack, make it hard for the 10 men, not easy.
Yeah but no but yeah we might get caught out on the break, well we FUCKIN DID ANYWAY.
But, on the other hand COULDN’T legislate for Pienaar stupidly getting booked then going in his shell, Oh except to come out of it for a sneaky get even girly barge on Stevie G.
WASN’T to know that Arteta would play in the deep bit of Fellaini’s role but bugger all else.
JESUS WEPT.
Not can’t but WON’T...coulda, woulda, shoulda, a day late and a dollar short etc etc the old litany.
WON’T, not ever, never! drop Pip and put in Coleman and thus fully use Donovan.The game was crying out for width and all out attack, make it hard for the 10 men, not easy.
Yeah but no but yeah we might get caught out on the break, well we FUCKIN DID ANYWAY.
But, on the other hand COULDN’T legislate for Pienaar stupidly getting booked then going in his shell, Oh except to come out of it for a sneaky get even girly barge on Stevie G.
WASN’T to know that Arteta would play in the deep bit of Fellaini’s role but bugger all else.
JESUS WEPT.
I sit here in disbelief after reading Moyes’s post-match comments. I know through experience that he rarely gives anything away in those interviews, in fact he rarely says anything of consequence to the media, which is fine by me. But if he seriously believes what he said after that non-display today then he has driven himself way beyond tactical ineptitude and all the way to the valley of lost the plot.
He has been a fantastic servant to the club and imo has been the primary reason for our rebirth over the past 4-5 years. Sadly, I don’t think we can ignore any longer his astonishing tactical ignorance. David, please go now. It’s time for a change.
He has been a fantastic servant to the club and imo has been the primary reason for our rebirth over the past 4-5 years. Sadly, I don’t think we can ignore any longer his astonishing tactical ignorance. David, please go now. It’s time for a change.
@David Hallwood: I agree partly with your analysis. My problems with David Moyes are simple. Where resources are limited, you have to be creative. He isn’t. You have to be a motivator. He appears not to be.
Once again, in an embarrassingly lengthy litany of failure against clubs around us, his ideas have shown themselves to be limited.
Put it this way. Is there any coach of a Sunday league team who would have come up with the tactics / substitutions that he came up with yesterday? Surely such a Coach would have been laughed at by the three men and a dog watching the game.
I fully appreciate that there isn’t one of our players on show yesterday who would have made it into our team 40 years ago and that the reason for that is partly money. But I respectfully suggest it isn’t anything like the whole answer.
Once again, in an embarrassingly lengthy litany of failure against clubs around us, his ideas have shown themselves to be limited.
Put it this way. Is there any coach of a Sunday league team who would have come up with the tactics / substitutions that he came up with yesterday? Surely such a Coach would have been laughed at by the three men and a dog watching the game.
I fully appreciate that there isn’t one of our players on show yesterday who would have made it into our team 40 years ago and that the reason for that is partly money. But I respectfully suggest it isn’t anything like the whole answer.
The match yesterday summed up in my opinion the last few years of Everton under Moyes — always threatening (no wrong word there), always flattering to do something... but, in the end, nothing to show.
Moyes has been offered more opportunities to beat the top 4 than other managers but just does not know how to do it —how often does Ferguson rest players against us knowing they’ll still win? Twice this season against Liverpool, they were absolutely there for the taking but, on both occasions, he didn’t know how to change tactics.
What really annoyed me yesterday was, after they had the man sent off, he didn’t change anything at all — worse, the number of times we just gave possession away without a challenge. Some of it looked pretty but it was total nothingness — in fact it was absolutely gutless.
Interestingly after the City game the other week, all the Moyes lovers were at my throat telling me how great he was and totally responsible for that win. Since then, we have lost to Birmingham, won at Wigan but played garbage football and lost to Liverpool — OK, what have you got to say now?
I'm sick of the football under Moyes have been for a good few years now. Gutless and dull.
Robbie Shields, You stole my thunder, you hit all the buttons on what went wrong.
I have witnessed some poor performances over the years in derby matches, but that was the most inept display ever.
I have witnessed some poor performances over the years in derby matches, but that was the most inept display ever.
Lee Kidd - Your one glaring ommision from a "Merseyside XI" is Pepe Reina for Tim Howard.
In both derbies the season, a "swap" of goalies would have seen two wins for us, of that I have no doubt. Look at the 3 goals conceded - a 30 yard deflected daisy-cutter that hit the middle of the goal ; a shot parried straight back out, for Kuyt to tap in ; and a header from one (OK, two) yards, direct from a corner. Add into the equation Reina’s incredible double-save at Goodison, the way he raced off the line to beat (wimpy) Saha to a through ball yesterday, his save from Yakubu (would Howard make that save, really ?), and his general command of his box (with one or two indiscretions, granted), and I would swap ’keepers in a heartbeat.
Howard has been our undisputed number one since he arrived in July 2006, and therein lies the problem. There is no competition for the jersey, and unfortunately he has not improved. Hopefully, this will change with the summer signing of Jan Mucha (no, I don’t know anything about him either !).
People may throw Opta statistics back at me, or point to his clean sheet record, comparing him to Southall, but I am old enough to know that he ain’t no Big Nev !!
In both derbies the season, a "swap" of goalies would have seen two wins for us, of that I have no doubt. Look at the 3 goals conceded - a 30 yard deflected daisy-cutter that hit the middle of the goal ; a shot parried straight back out, for Kuyt to tap in ; and a header from one (OK, two) yards, direct from a corner. Add into the equation Reina’s incredible double-save at Goodison, the way he raced off the line to beat (wimpy) Saha to a through ball yesterday, his save from Yakubu (would Howard make that save, really ?), and his general command of his box (with one or two indiscretions, granted), and I would swap ’keepers in a heartbeat.
Howard has been our undisputed number one since he arrived in July 2006, and therein lies the problem. There is no competition for the jersey, and unfortunately he has not improved. Hopefully, this will change with the summer signing of Jan Mucha (no, I don’t know anything about him either !).
People may throw Opta statistics back at me, or point to his clean sheet record, comparing him to Southall, but I am old enough to know that he ain’t no Big Nev !!
Coached to contain coached to stifle coached to close down coached to prevent football happening on a football pitch. When we get presented with a chance to take the imitative, press, attack dominate, stretch and worry the opposition the result is a disgrace to the name of Everton, that was utterly pathetic today. Moyes is a good manager but his ideas at the top level are sadly lacking for an extra £1.5m per year where are the new ideas ,the new tactics the new formations????????
Has our football moved on from 2003?
Has our football moved on from 2003?
Two good games in the whole season, and now we are back to this dross, and yet people are still calling Moyes praises, the man now has taken us as far as he can, no fault of his he simply isnt good enough to take us any further. Hopefully the call of Celtic will get stronger and stronger
Can someone please check how far ahead the scum are in overall wins since Moyes took over? My gut feel is we were only 4-5 games behind them around about 2001. After yesterday and another further destruction of our pulverised local pride I think it’s - won 45 to their 64 - 19 games difference, go on Davey defend the fact that under your management the difference between the records is the worst its ever been and its now likely we will never see it level ever again.
Nice to see he thinks we didn’t play badly you would think being a Celtic supporter he would at least understand what local pride means to a team. It means ONE thing the right result. His results as Everton manager are a disgrace
Nice to see he thinks we didn’t play badly you would think being a Celtic supporter he would at least understand what local pride means to a team. It means ONE thing the right result. His results as Everton manager are a disgrace
LIverpool have become the dogs of war, although you will never get the media admitting it or slanting it at them in the negative way that they did to us in Royle’s era. That is why when they got 1 up they were able to soak it up as it suited their style just like we would have been able to do in the mid 90’s if the roles had been reversed.
That is also why they have had good results against Man Utd and us in recent times and why they can often match Chelsea. However, they get poor results against Arsenal as Arsenal are able to rise above the harrassing and pressure style and outdo them with quality football.
That is what we should have been doing yesterday, we have the players now who can play it on the deck and find the incisive passes. That is where I blame Moyes for not recognising this and letting us get dragged into a battle with them. We outplayed them at Goodison in November when we had key players missing and were just guilty of bad luck and poor finishing then. Yesterday we were guilty - as we always seem to be at Anfield - of a lack of adventure and not taking the game to them.
That is also why they have had good results against Man Utd and us in recent times and why they can often match Chelsea. However, they get poor results against Arsenal as Arsenal are able to rise above the harrassing and pressure style and outdo them with quality football.
That is what we should have been doing yesterday, we have the players now who can play it on the deck and find the incisive passes. That is where I blame Moyes for not recognising this and letting us get dragged into a battle with them. We outplayed them at Goodison in November when we had key players missing and were just guilty of bad luck and poor finishing then. Yesterday we were guilty - as we always seem to be at Anfield - of a lack of adventure and not taking the game to them.
Robbie shields lets get it right, Anichebe and Arteta are know where near match fit and will be a long way off from their best. Anichebe struggles with fitness at the best of times so his 2nd appearance after God knows how many months is going to be a struggle. Arteta probably wouldnt have got on the pitch in such an aggressive game only for the INJURY of our BEST player for the last 2 months.Also where was Vaughn?
It’s no good comparing Moyes to SAF. Sir Alex is perhaps one of the greatest managers of all time with by far the most experience in the Premiere league, so of course Moyes isn’t going to make the same decisions, but SAF makes mistake aswell, look what happend against Leeds, so does Wenger, look what happend against stoke. All managers make mistakes but the best make less than the rest and Moyes makes less than most at this level.
I stand by what i say, as our players return and get up to speed the performances of the team will improve, Arteta will improve in time and Anichebe will go from strength to strength and so too will Everton. It’s not rocket science. We will take a step back with the loss of Fellaini and Piennar but when they return the team will get better.
Moyes is taking us in the right direction, We will win more with him than we would without him, yes we will have poor performances and lose the odd game in an embarrasing manner but doesnt every team from time to time? We lost to Liverpool just like we lost to Birmingham, It happens, thats football, thats life, get over it.
It’s no good comparing Moyes to SAF. Sir Alex is perhaps one of the greatest managers of all time with by far the most experience in the Premiere league, so of course Moyes isn’t going to make the same decisions, but SAF makes mistake aswell, look what happend against Leeds, so does Wenger, look what happend against stoke. All managers make mistakes but the best make less than the rest and Moyes makes less than most at this level.
I stand by what i say, as our players return and get up to speed the performances of the team will improve, Arteta will improve in time and Anichebe will go from strength to strength and so too will Everton. It’s not rocket science. We will take a step back with the loss of Fellaini and Piennar but when they return the team will get better.
Moyes is taking us in the right direction, We will win more with him than we would without him, yes we will have poor performances and lose the odd game in an embarrasing manner but doesnt every team from time to time? We lost to Liverpool just like we lost to Birmingham, It happens, thats football, thats life, get over it.
Yesterday proved yet again why Man Utd wont touch Moyes with a barge pole.
Year in year out we vist Anfield and Old Trafford with the same negative shite, keep it tight and hope to sneak a goal from a set piece.
Well Davey its been a good few years now so any chance of a plan B and at least get beat with guns blazing, as the law of averages says we would beat them surely once if we had a go.
The fat waiter proved yet again he is better than Moyes tactically.
Year in year out we vist Anfield and Old Trafford with the same negative shite, keep it tight and hope to sneak a goal from a set piece.
Well Davey its been a good few years now so any chance of a plan B and at least get beat with guns blazing, as the law of averages says we would beat them surely once if we had a go.
The fat waiter proved yet again he is better than Moyes tactically.
Ah, Mr. Tunstead. Still with the burning desire to be proved infallible. Still without the grace to admit you might possibly be completely wrong.
So, when everone of these players is as fit as a butcher’s dog, we will play a lot better?
Really?
So, when everone of these players is as fit as a butcher’s dog, we will play a lot better?
Really?
Assuming that Moyes stays, this summer will define him either as a great Everton manager, ready to take us to the next level, or one who has found his level, with no more to come.
The derby yesterday has brought into focus a few burning issues.
Most significantly, in my opinion, he needs to grasp the right back conundrum, and either put faith in Coleman, or buy a top class replacement. Either way, Neville should now be politely moved on, to begin his management apprenticeship elsewhere. Moyes needs to break the link, as having his mouth-piece on the pitch is no longer beneficial to the team. We need an attacking outlet, as mentioned elsewhere, and both Hibbert and Neville have been tried, and come up short, time after time.
Other leaders will step up, to replace Neville, and in Heitinga, Jags, and Fellaini, we have those leaders for the next few seasons.
The derby yesterday has brought into focus a few burning issues.
Most significantly, in my opinion, he needs to grasp the right back conundrum, and either put faith in Coleman, or buy a top class replacement. Either way, Neville should now be politely moved on, to begin his management apprenticeship elsewhere. Moyes needs to break the link, as having his mouth-piece on the pitch is no longer beneficial to the team. We need an attacking outlet, as mentioned elsewhere, and both Hibbert and Neville have been tried, and come up short, time after time.
Other leaders will step up, to replace Neville, and in Heitinga, Jags, and Fellaini, we have those leaders for the next few seasons.
I watched the game with a few of my friends who were visiting Liverpool, some for the first time. They have ties to Liverpool, and there are a few Liverpool supporters amongst them. There were also some local friends, and all in all we had a fairly even split of blue, red and neutral. I know a lot of people who don’t like watching the game with opposition fans, but I think the banter adds something.
So, beginning at the start, Liverpool had put out a side including Lucas and Ngog, and I could tell they were worried. Everton had a relatively unchanged side with a strong bench to boot. It’s been a while since our bench has contained that many first teamers, with Coleman the exception.
So began the game. Atkinson in charge, must admit I was just thankful it wasn’t Wiley or worse. First minute Carragher puts in a challenge, which deserves admiration in the modern game, but I also thought it probably deserved a booking too. The latter didn’t happen. There was an equally strong challenge from an Everton player a few minutes later, that also went unpunished. I thought that this ref was either going to lose the game or do very well.
In my eyes though, he lost it. Whilst spotting most of the big things, his punishments were poor, unneeded cards, yellows for reds and reds for yellows. I don’t think however we can blame the ref for fellaini going off. Injury aside I think he might well have lost the plot too, seeing as the tackle on the Greek was over the top.
At half time, I thought we were in the ascendancy, I thought fellaini was bossing the midfield, and we looked up for it, and the more dangerous. I thought Cahill almost put too much into his header, with the time that he had, and was a little annoyed it was only 0-0.
When fellaini went off, I thought, ok, I really hope he’s not injured. But I was also thinking - with arteta coming on, and more gaps, it would surely only benefit us.
What happened in the second half was, noncholance. We didn’t want it, it went over the top or right through the middle. We didn’t try and get round Liverpool or play through them.
That Liverpool team really lacked teeth, apart from the poor goal conceded, they hardly created anything. But neither did we. In front of goal we were terribly poor. Final third really let us down.
I’ll blame Moyes in a minute, but players like Osman were missing for large parts, pienaar was desperately poor. And others were very mediocre. At least in the first half, passion or reckless tackling, we looked up for it. There was none of that In the second half.
And briefly, Moyes. Personally I would have brought Coleman on and put Neville in midfield. Then replaced Osman/Cahill with arteta/yakubu. Bringing on an unfit arteta, we losst the defensive battle in midfield. We became really narrow, which I presume was moyes covering for fellainis work rate. Instead of attacking he looked to consolidate, understandable, but why not gamble Moyes, why not go for it before 75 min?
Ultimately I blame those on the pitch, mitigating factors for the unfit. But if they couldn’t, or worse didn’t want it yesterday, then Moyes has got to sort it out.
So, beginning at the start, Liverpool had put out a side including Lucas and Ngog, and I could tell they were worried. Everton had a relatively unchanged side with a strong bench to boot. It’s been a while since our bench has contained that many first teamers, with Coleman the exception.
So began the game. Atkinson in charge, must admit I was just thankful it wasn’t Wiley or worse. First minute Carragher puts in a challenge, which deserves admiration in the modern game, but I also thought it probably deserved a booking too. The latter didn’t happen. There was an equally strong challenge from an Everton player a few minutes later, that also went unpunished. I thought that this ref was either going to lose the game or do very well.
In my eyes though, he lost it. Whilst spotting most of the big things, his punishments were poor, unneeded cards, yellows for reds and reds for yellows. I don’t think however we can blame the ref for fellaini going off. Injury aside I think he might well have lost the plot too, seeing as the tackle on the Greek was over the top.
At half time, I thought we were in the ascendancy, I thought fellaini was bossing the midfield, and we looked up for it, and the more dangerous. I thought Cahill almost put too much into his header, with the time that he had, and was a little annoyed it was only 0-0.
When fellaini went off, I thought, ok, I really hope he’s not injured. But I was also thinking - with arteta coming on, and more gaps, it would surely only benefit us.
What happened in the second half was, noncholance. We didn’t want it, it went over the top or right through the middle. We didn’t try and get round Liverpool or play through them.
That Liverpool team really lacked teeth, apart from the poor goal conceded, they hardly created anything. But neither did we. In front of goal we were terribly poor. Final third really let us down.
I’ll blame Moyes in a minute, but players like Osman were missing for large parts, pienaar was desperately poor. And others were very mediocre. At least in the first half, passion or reckless tackling, we looked up for it. There was none of that In the second half.
And briefly, Moyes. Personally I would have brought Coleman on and put Neville in midfield. Then replaced Osman/Cahill with arteta/yakubu. Bringing on an unfit arteta, we losst the defensive battle in midfield. We became really narrow, which I presume was moyes covering for fellainis work rate. Instead of attacking he looked to consolidate, understandable, but why not gamble Moyes, why not go for it before 75 min?
Ultimately I blame those on the pitch, mitigating factors for the unfit. But if they couldn’t, or worse didn’t want it yesterday, then Moyes has got to sort it out.
This was probably the most humiliating derby game since the 86 Cup final.I agree 100% with all the vitriol posted above.Time for a change.
As for the match just a couple of thoughts.Why did Heitinga[not tall enough for a centre back] head the ball out for the corner which led to the goal?The Yak and Victor are heading for the next series of Celebrity Fit Club.
As for the match just a couple of thoughts.Why did Heitinga[not tall enough for a centre back] head the ball out for the corner which led to the goal?The Yak and Victor are heading for the next series of Celebrity Fit Club.
Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t: pleasing everyone is impossible, particularly for David Moyes.
It wasn’t his fault yesterday. That ’accolade’ belongs to the players. They were individually and collectively inept. So to lay the blame at Moyes’s door and ignore their failings is way below the level of knowledge Evertonians should be aspiring to.
All these accusations of Moyes being negative need to be firmly put in perspective. From the outset, it was Liverpool’s policy that was clearly one of containment.
Even before the necessity of consolidating when they were reduced to 10 men, they had been briefed to intimidate, stifle and snatch at us on the break — on their own pitch.
You only have to look at our substitution, when Moyes replaced Fellaini with Arteta — giving us six attacking players on the pitch — to see his intention and will to win the game.
That the players didn’t go on and transfer that intent into reality is THEIR fault. They were outfought by a more determined team and didn’t rise to the challenge.
Surely, for all those who think Moyes has some inbuilt desire to play badly and lose wherever possible, Neville into Fellaini’s slot and Coleman on at right back would have been a more characteristic switch.
With that wonderful quality called hindsight (which so many are espousing above), it may well have proved a better one too — but give the guy credit where credit’s due.
His response was to bring on what most people regard as our best player and give the team license to go for it. It didn’t work because they didn’t do as they were told.
It wasn’t his fault yesterday. That ’accolade’ belongs to the players. They were individually and collectively inept. So to lay the blame at Moyes’s door and ignore their failings is way below the level of knowledge Evertonians should be aspiring to.
All these accusations of Moyes being negative need to be firmly put in perspective. From the outset, it was Liverpool’s policy that was clearly one of containment.
Even before the necessity of consolidating when they were reduced to 10 men, they had been briefed to intimidate, stifle and snatch at us on the break — on their own pitch.
You only have to look at our substitution, when Moyes replaced Fellaini with Arteta — giving us six attacking players on the pitch — to see his intention and will to win the game.
That the players didn’t go on and transfer that intent into reality is THEIR fault. They were outfought by a more determined team and didn’t rise to the challenge.
Surely, for all those who think Moyes has some inbuilt desire to play badly and lose wherever possible, Neville into Fellaini’s slot and Coleman on at right back would have been a more characteristic switch.
With that wonderful quality called hindsight (which so many are espousing above), it may well have proved a better one too — but give the guy credit where credit’s due.
His response was to bring on what most people regard as our best player and give the team license to go for it. It didn’t work because they didn’t do as they were told.
We lost. It hurts. We ought to have done better. But it’s the team that deserves a kick up the backside. So kick them and leave Moyes alone. for once.
Let’s face it gents we’re all hurting @ the moment, and of course we’ve got the Monday morning RS gloating to look forward to, one of the posters compared DMs record in derbies (which is abysmal) with his predecessors, but what we’ve got to keep sight of is that it’s just 3 points and it goes without saying that when it comes to amassing points DM been the best since Kendall.
Perhaps he does need to move on because he’s falling into the trap that SAF, or Paisley never does or did and that’s being over loyal and trusting with some of his players, When a player stops perfoming the manager must deal with it, I’ll point to Cahill who’s been a spectator for most of the season, and goals like the Wigan game and performances like the one against Citteh are becoming rare. If you taped the match concentrate on his contribution, and it was less than zero, what’s the problem; South Africa? burn out? no idea, but with a lone striker(or in the case of Donovan a loan striker-sorry bout that) his position as the link man is both vital and lung-busting.
Its unfair to single out Cahill from yesterday’s debaclé because DM could’ve made substitutions on an eeny-meeny-minee-mo basis. How DM deals with the under performance of his trusted players will be more of a measure of his managerial skills than his tactical nous
Perhaps he does need to move on because he’s falling into the trap that SAF, or Paisley never does or did and that’s being over loyal and trusting with some of his players, When a player stops perfoming the manager must deal with it, I’ll point to Cahill who’s been a spectator for most of the season, and goals like the Wigan game and performances like the one against Citteh are becoming rare. If you taped the match concentrate on his contribution, and it was less than zero, what’s the problem; South Africa? burn out? no idea, but with a lone striker(or in the case of Donovan a loan striker-sorry bout that) his position as the link man is both vital and lung-busting.
Its unfair to single out Cahill from yesterday’s debaclé because DM could’ve made substitutions on an eeny-meeny-minee-mo basis. How DM deals with the under performance of his trusted players will be more of a measure of his managerial skills than his tactical nous
Haha this post is brilliant, Dan Brierley spot on!
When we beat Man City there was no where near this much attention after the game.
Some of you (not all) were hoping for a result like this against a ’big 4’ side just so you could come on here with some extraordinary exagerration.
We were poor, I lost my temper and got chucked out a pub (very silly not proud). But Liverpool got it spot on yesterday, they completely took our most creative player out in the first minute and then took our best player completely out near the end of the first half.
Pienaar was gone after that first challenge, Fellaini off after 40, Liverpool sat back and we weren’t anywhere near good enough to score after that. Arteta did nothing, be a while before he is anywhere near a great player again.
They were not a better side than us though.
Moyes won his manager of the month award because of what happened in January and it was deserved. Who else should have won it? Sack him? That would be clueless.
Coleman is young and enthusiastic and has one good game against Spurs, he is not the answer yet.
And if we didn’t start with Osman, who would you all suggest? The yak? Anichebe? Just not good enough and would have left us very open.
I thought our line up was really strong at the start, I think Liverpool completely bullied us, and we were not at the races today.
Chelsea is going to be incredibly hard, Pienaar and Felllaini will both probably be out. But IF we win, I can only hope there is 70 odd comments on one thread so I am proved wrong.
When we beat Man City there was no where near this much attention after the game.
Some of you (not all) were hoping for a result like this against a ’big 4’ side just so you could come on here with some extraordinary exagerration.
We were poor, I lost my temper and got chucked out a pub (very silly not proud). But Liverpool got it spot on yesterday, they completely took our most creative player out in the first minute and then took our best player completely out near the end of the first half.
Pienaar was gone after that first challenge, Fellaini off after 40, Liverpool sat back and we weren’t anywhere near good enough to score after that. Arteta did nothing, be a while before he is anywhere near a great player again.
They were not a better side than us though.
Moyes won his manager of the month award because of what happened in January and it was deserved. Who else should have won it? Sack him? That would be clueless.
Coleman is young and enthusiastic and has one good game against Spurs, he is not the answer yet.
And if we didn’t start with Osman, who would you all suggest? The yak? Anichebe? Just not good enough and would have left us very open.
I thought our line up was really strong at the start, I think Liverpool completely bullied us, and we were not at the races today.
Chelsea is going to be incredibly hard, Pienaar and Felllaini will both probably be out. But IF we win, I can only hope there is 70 odd comments on one thread so I am proved wrong.
@Steve Smith. Yes, let’s all have a good laugh.
I won’t mention your admiration of Ian Tunstead. Some things are best left unsaid.
Yes, you noticed they tackled very hard. And after that ... the same excuses. Why not address the issues which have been raised?
As to sacking Moyes, there should be no need. Any real man would have sufficient pride to pack his bag and walk after that shambles.
I won’t mention your admiration of Ian Tunstead. Some things are best left unsaid.
Yes, you noticed they tackled very hard. And after that ... the same excuses. Why not address the issues which have been raised?
As to sacking Moyes, there should be no need. Any real man would have sufficient pride to pack his bag and walk after that shambles.
Steve, as has been mentioned numerous times, what about Pienaars leg breaking tackle, and Fellaini’s 50/50 tackle on the greek lad was a disgrace, why not comment on them?
It was just pretty gutless. We just didn't seem to have any ideas to break them down. If that had've been Chelsea or Man United, Liverpool would of been ripped a new arsehole, they are that shit.
Coleman should just pack his bags... everyone who’s ever played or watched the game knows the way to play ten men is to get it wide and stretch them. If Moyes doesn't put him on under yesterday's circumstances, the lad may as well go and carve out a career for himself elsewhere.
That said, in these games you’re normally lucky to get a half chance, we got a glorious one. Cahill blew it at an absolutely critiical point in the game, that's why we lost.
That said, in these games you’re normally lucky to get a half chance, we got a glorious one. Cahill blew it at an absolutely critiical point in the game, that's why we lost.
Mike McLean, are you some sort of comedian? Yes, after the performance against Liverpool I might admit that I have been wrong, but after the Man City and Arsenal performances maybe you could have admited you are wrong?
The truth is is that it is rediculous to judge a team or a manager after 1 game, it is usualy best to judge after a season and the fact is that Moyes has proved time and time again that he is the man for the job. By your logic SAF should have had ’’sufficient pride to pack his bag and walk after’’ the Leeds game and the same goes for Wenger after the 3-0 humiliation against Stoke.
The difference is Stoke and Leeds are clearly inferior sides to Man U and Arsenal with less quality players and less resources. Whereas Liverpool are a top 4 side (number 2 side in the country if you look at last season's league table) with more money and better players and bigger squad.
The truth is is that it is rediculous to judge a team or a manager after 1 game, it is usualy best to judge after a season and the fact is that Moyes has proved time and time again that he is the man for the job. By your logic SAF should have had ’’sufficient pride to pack his bag and walk after’’ the Leeds game and the same goes for Wenger after the 3-0 humiliation against Stoke.
The difference is Stoke and Leeds are clearly inferior sides to Man U and Arsenal with less quality players and less resources. Whereas Liverpool are a top 4 side (number 2 side in the country if you look at last season's league table) with more money and better players and bigger squad.
Ian Tunstead,
You say "don’t judge the man after one game". Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t we played more than 24 games this season, and you can only quote all the 2 of them? Also, he has been here 8 years now, and there is still not even a hint of winning anything. Please don’t mention the Cup Final, that was a humliation.
You say "don’t judge the man after one game". Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t we played more than 24 games this season, and you can only quote all the 2 of them? Also, he has been here 8 years now, and there is still not even a hint of winning anything. Please don’t mention the Cup Final, that was a humliation.
It’s always dissapointing losing the derby but it was a bit more painful for me this time because I genuinely believed we could go to Anfield and get a result. The reason I believed it so strongly is down to David Moyes and the team he has built. I felt if there was to be a Merseyside 11 I would have 6 Everton players in my team and on that basis felt we would just edge it and come out on top.
However, what we must also take into consideration is that this is football and anything is possible, especially with players like Gerrard and Carragher on the pitch. History shows that on their day they can be unstoppable and unbeatable against the worlds best, against the likes of Barcelona, Man U, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter Milan.
However, what we must also take into consideration is that this is football and anything is possible, especially with players like Gerrard and Carragher on the pitch. History shows that on their day they can be unstoppable and unbeatable against the worlds best, against the likes of Barcelona, Man U, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter Milan.
When you least expect them to win, Gerrard and Carragher rise to the occasion and pull Liverpool out the shit. They are not machines and they can not be relied upon for every game of the season but when they are up for it, there is nothing Everton or any other team can do about it and that is why we will always struggle to beat Liverpool if they are in the side. The good news is they only have a few seasons left in them.
Colin, I said judge him after a season not 24 games. And for the 1st 15 to 20 games we had nearly half a squad out. How can you say ’’there is not even a hint of winning anything’’?
Last 16 of the Uefa Cup only beaten by a good Florentina side on penalties, beating the eventual winners of the trophy in the group stage; semi-final of the League Cup beaten by a very good Chelsea side; and of course the FA cup final which i will mention because I didn't see it as total humiliation. I saw it as the best team in Europe, Chelsea who were robbed agaisnt Barcelona in the semi’s of the CL, playing an Everton side without the spine of its team and 3 best players. We were only beaten by 1 goal.
A Chelsea side that over the previous 6 or 7 years had spent £100’s of millions on top players and won titles reached European finals and had a wealth of experience in big games. Yes, that's the biggest humiliation to happen to a team!
Last 16 of the Uefa Cup only beaten by a good Florentina side on penalties, beating the eventual winners of the trophy in the group stage; semi-final of the League Cup beaten by a very good Chelsea side; and of course the FA cup final which i will mention because I didn't see it as total humiliation. I saw it as the best team in Europe, Chelsea who were robbed agaisnt Barcelona in the semi’s of the CL, playing an Everton side without the spine of its team and 3 best players. We were only beaten by 1 goal.
A Chelsea side that over the previous 6 or 7 years had spent £100’s of millions on top players and won titles reached European finals and had a wealth of experience in big games. Yes, that's the biggest humiliation to happen to a team!
After all that, you didn’t mention anything that we had won Ian. He’s been here 8 years and peole can only talk favourably about a hand full of games every season. I know we can’t afford to sack him,so I think he do us all a favour and resign, And before you mention the 4th place finish, don’t lets forget the 4th from bottom.
I am dissapointed in fellaini, i understand his passion for the club but tackles like that, and kyrgiarkos tackle are just going to do damage not only to his reputation but more importantly to Everton Football Club.
Honestly, I think some of you do not understand the Football World in which we now live.
If you haven’t worked it out by now, let me help. The first four places are sewn up, virtually in advance. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. Trust me and stay with me on this. They get the most money and it is almost impossible to displace them.
Clubs like Everton are playing for 5th. I know it’s not very exciting but that is the Sky football situation in which we are in. I am not sure what you expect Moyes to do. He has finished 5th in each of the last 2 seasons which is like finishing first. The only reason we won’t finish 5th this season is because of horrendous injuries.
At some stage in the near future another team, probably Man. United will grab Moyes as they realise how good he is.My replacement would be Simon Grayson as he has done a tremendous job in the lower divisions.
I, too, don’t like hoofball but Moyes has overall done a great job on far more meagre resources than a lot of other teams. Look at the other managers in the PL and be thankful we have Moyes as the alternatives do not bear thinking about.
If you haven’t worked it out by now, let me help. The first four places are sewn up, virtually in advance. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. Trust me and stay with me on this. They get the most money and it is almost impossible to displace them.
Clubs like Everton are playing for 5th. I know it’s not very exciting but that is the Sky football situation in which we are in. I am not sure what you expect Moyes to do. He has finished 5th in each of the last 2 seasons which is like finishing first. The only reason we won’t finish 5th this season is because of horrendous injuries.
At some stage in the near future another team, probably Man. United will grab Moyes as they realise how good he is.My replacement would be Simon Grayson as he has done a tremendous job in the lower divisions.
I, too, don’t like hoofball but Moyes has overall done a great job on far more meagre resources than a lot of other teams. Look at the other managers in the PL and be thankful we have Moyes as the alternatives do not bear thinking about.
Ian Tunstead
Your post regarding Gerrard and Carragher is the most pathetic post i have ever heard. Are you honestly trying to say that we have no chance of beating liverpool if a player of the abilty of Jamie Carragher is on top form? If that is the mentality of any of our fans and even worse a single player in he everton squad then this once great club has officially died.
Your post regarding Gerrard and Carragher is the most pathetic post i have ever heard. Are you honestly trying to say that we have no chance of beating liverpool if a player of the abilty of Jamie Carragher is on top form? If that is the mentality of any of our fans and even worse a single player in he everton squad then this once great club has officially died.
RE: Ian Tunstead’s Post.
It has nothing to do with what players Liverpool or anyone else has out on the pitch, we have beaten Liverpool before with Gerrard and Carragher on the pitch, and they are both ALWAYS up for Derby matches (being Scousers).
Its down to the fact we simply lose the will to win or do anything once were up against a team that is seen bigger than us in the media.
All the paper talk from Neville and whoever else is bollocks, only what you do on the pitch counts - not what you say in some paper.
Gerrard and Carragher aren’t a match for our 11 players, no two players are - only a full opposition team are.
It has nothing to do with what players Liverpool or anyone else has out on the pitch, we have beaten Liverpool before with Gerrard and Carragher on the pitch, and they are both ALWAYS up for Derby matches (being Scousers).
Its down to the fact we simply lose the will to win or do anything once were up against a team that is seen bigger than us in the media.
All the paper talk from Neville and whoever else is bollocks, only what you do on the pitch counts - not what you say in some paper.
Gerrard and Carragher aren’t a match for our 11 players, no two players are - only a full opposition team are.
Correct me if I’m wrong but hasn’t David Moyes got a better record against Liverpool than Joe Royle?
Royle only won two games against Liverpool, 1994-95 at Goodison and 1995-96 at Anfield, Moyes has won three Derby games, including our biggest win over them for over 45 years.
And under Royle, to be fair that’s all we ever did...beat Liverpool. Our League season was written off before Christmas, at least under Moyes we can lose to Liverpool and still have the rest of the season to look forward to, i.e. qualifying for Europe, reaching Cup Finals.
I’d take that anyday over beating them.
Royle only won two games against Liverpool, 1994-95 at Goodison and 1995-96 at Anfield, Moyes has won three Derby games, including our biggest win over them for over 45 years.
And under Royle, to be fair that’s all we ever did...beat Liverpool. Our League season was written off before Christmas, at least under Moyes we can lose to Liverpool and still have the rest of the season to look forward to, i.e. qualifying for Europe, reaching Cup Finals.
I’d take that anyday over beating them.
Joe Royle never lost a derby as manager, whereas I think Moyes's losses may be in double figures.
Forgot to mention we also won the FA Cup and Charity Shield under Royle.
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1 Posted 06/02/2010 at 15:43:02
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And what genius thought lumping it up to Saha/Cahill/Yakubu/Anichebe against 10 men was a good idea? Obviously the Manager of the Month.
How to cock up a derby match Part 2.