The Mail Bag
Pienaar Banned for 12 Months... on the road
Comments (40)
When the news broke that an Everton player had been retarded enough to drink under the influence and get charged, I called the guy on these pages a tit.
Quite a few responded with a ‘wait and see what happens at the trial’ attitude, but with a DUI charge, the outcome was inevitable. We now learn Pienaar has a 12-month ban from driving and a fine of what would equate to you and me as a fiver.
I’m not looking for a public apology, or some kind of statement to re-enforce him as a role model… THE CHILDREN! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
What I do want is Moyes, or Kenwright who pays the guy, to give him a severe dressing down, and if done already, again. Other teams will happily sign players who drink and drive, screw around, dodge drug tests, assault people, roast girls, hide mobile phones in dark places, but David Moyes does not.
Away from the Coke ads and the Sky Sports Spectacularness, footballers are not looked on too well from the fans. David Moyes though has a squad of players who bring dignity to the club and the game, and Pienaar should be reminded that stepping out of line is not what we want from our team.
How difficult would it be to now support the type of players whose continuous bad behaviour makes them reviled to anyone but their own fans at other clubs? Sanctimonious this may be, but it reflects the culture that David Moyes has brought to the playing staff.
As for Pienaar, a tit-like action, but not a tit presumably or Moyes would not have signed him. So if Moyes does have Man Utd ambitions, this is where the hair-dryer treatment can be practiced.
Nick Entwistle, Posted 09/03/2010 at 16:47:54
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Jesus wept you are such a paragon of virtue aren’t you?
The guy made a mistake. He’s been done for it. Like 1000’s of others before him, and after him.
If he was a 17 or 18 year old, maybe, just maybe, you might have a point. But he’s not - he’s a grown man.
Football players are in the public eye, therefore what they do ends up in the spotlight. I am not condoning what he did - I despise drink drivers because of the risks they pose to innocent road users.
With all of the recent publicity about players from other clubs committing a variety of misdemeanours, you do have to have some sympathy. If Nick Entwhistle from London had committed the offence, at most it would have been a minor paragraph in a local rag somewhere.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Etc.
The guy made a mistake. He’s been done for it. Like 1000’s of others before him, and after him.
If he was a 17 or 18 year old, maybe, just maybe, you might have a point. But he’s not - he’s a grown man.
Football players are in the public eye, therefore what they do ends up in the spotlight. I am not condoning what he did - I despise drink drivers because of the risks they pose to innocent road users.
With all of the recent publicity about players from other clubs committing a variety of misdemeanours, you do have to have some sympathy. If Nick Entwhistle from London had committed the offence, at most it would have been a minor paragraph in a local rag somewhere.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Etc.
"Let he without sin cast the first one" This’ll be interesting
Like it Matt
Like it Matt
Nick, It's no-one else's business outside of the club, so let him put it behind him as I am sure he would want to and carry on with the football.
He did something dangerous and stupid, he got caught. He didnt go to court and defend what he did, he put his hands up and took the punishment. I am glad he didn’t try and weasel his way out of it with high price lawyers, excuses etc. He has probably been bollocked by the club, feels a bit of a pratt and just wants to get on with footy now. Let it be.
Keith,
If someone drives drunk on the road then it is everyone’s business.
I’m surprised he didn’t employ celebrity lawyer Nick Freeman... anyway, god has forgiven him - so there’s not much us mere motals can add... No stones needed for the pious I suppose.
If someone drives drunk on the road then it is everyone’s business.
I’m surprised he didn’t employ celebrity lawyer Nick Freeman... anyway, god has forgiven him - so there’s not much us mere motals can add... No stones needed for the pious I suppose.
Nick he broke the law and has been dealt with by the law. When that arsehole rs captain had his day in court nothing would have made me happier to have seen him found guilty and doing a stretch. Alas he was not found guilty and went about being his smug self. At no time however would I have expecedt the rs to publicly condem him.
I respect and agree with your opinion that it has been a regretable incident involving one of our players, but no more. And as someone says who knows what bollocking he got behind closed doors
I respect and agree with your opinion that it has been a regretable incident involving one of our players, but no more. And as someone says who knows what bollocking he got behind closed doors
You can be under no doubt that Moyes has "roasted" (sorry,) Pienaar behind closed doors and that's good management, it doesn't need to be in the public eye.
This is how I treat my own employees, I don't publicly humiliate them in front of their peers.
This is how I treat my own employees, I don't publicly humiliate them in front of their peers.
I guess Moyes and Kenwright have given him a good roasting. That’ll teach him, and send out a strong message to the others.
Not sure if people misread my post, but I did say I am NOT looking for any public recrimination from the club.
So yeah, let him put it behind him, but not forget there are standards DM has brought to the playing staff... unless people think we should sign Lee Hughes in the summer.
Ok, only kidding...
So yeah, let him put it behind him, but not forget there are standards DM has brought to the playing staff... unless people think we should sign Lee Hughes in the summer.
Ok, only kidding...
Some one’s got to step up and fill the void left by Andy Van Der Meyde. Pienaar is as good a candidate as any if this is any indication.
I said it when the news of his arrest broke & I’ll say it again now. He is no longer fit to wear the shirt & we should get rid now.
What right do his employers have to punish him for an offence committed outside of their jurisdiction?
I take it that none of the people demanding he be sacked/humiliated etc have ever got behind the wheel of a car having drunk 2 or more pints. Or glasses of wine or shorts or whatever. I know I did it on occasion when I was younger, and after asking around my friends and neighbours they were all honest enough to admit to it as well. Doesn’t mean we condone drink driving, just that we understand it happens and as long as he learns from this it should be the end of it.
Steve, I have never & will never have even a single drink if I have to drive.
Kevin, just my opinion but I consider drink driving to be a very serious offence. A 12-month driving ban & £1000 fine is no more than a slap on the wrist. Drink driving should carry a mandatory prison sentence.
Kevin, just my opinion but I consider drink driving to be a very serious offence. A 12-month driving ban & £1000 fine is no more than a slap on the wrist. Drink driving should carry a mandatory prison sentence.
That is harsh, Geoff.
Then again, it takes a pedestrian to be in the wrong place, wrong time and suddenly it's not a missed traffic sign by Pienaar, but a dead body lying on the tarmac.
It is though one of those things where social attitudes prevail, so the law doesn’t need to come down so harsh.
Yes Geoff but that’s what the law states. Had Pienaar been a builder, the cops wouldn’t have tipped off the press, and they wouldn’t have tattled to the entire world. Thus his employers wouldn’t necessarily have discovered this transgression, and idiotic comments such as "no longer fit to wear the shirt." would never have graced this thread..
Had he raced through town at 80 mph, ignored police instructions, and mowed down six people, you would have gotten your wish. The very fact he was over the limit, and got behind the wheel, is punishable. But it is his actions subsequent to this that then dictate the grade of legal retribution. Since nobody got hurt, and there where no other incriminating factors, according to law, the punishment fits.
Had he raced through town at 80 mph, ignored police instructions, and mowed down six people, you would have gotten your wish. The very fact he was over the limit, and got behind the wheel, is punishable. But it is his actions subsequent to this that then dictate the grade of legal retribution. Since nobody got hurt, and there where no other incriminating factors, according to law, the punishment fits.
Yeah Nick because every single accident is caused by a drunk driver isn’t it?
Get off your high horse Geoff. He has done the crime and been punished for it, same as Dunc and many before him. I will never condone drink driving and if I was a betting man I would have a wedge on that he wasn’t that much over the limit, as it would certainly be "leaked" of how much over he was if it was high. The small fine and not so long ban would seem to indicate that he either a) had a good lawyer or b) he wasn’t that much over the limit.
Is there a mandate in place that says you cannot work if you have a criminal record? Seems a little against a person’s human rights if there is.
Get off your high horse Geoff. He has done the crime and been punished for it, same as Dunc and many before him. I will never condone drink driving and if I was a betting man I would have a wedge on that he wasn’t that much over the limit, as it would certainly be "leaked" of how much over he was if it was high. The small fine and not so long ban would seem to indicate that he either a) had a good lawyer or b) he wasn’t that much over the limit.
Is there a mandate in place that says you cannot work if you have a criminal record? Seems a little against a person’s human rights if there is.
Like I said guys, only my opinion & perhaps swayed by the fact that many years ago I lost a very dear friend knocked off his motorbike by a drunk driver.
According to BBC Pienaar was recorded at 61mg/100ml breathe. The driving limit is 35mg. If we assume that 2 pints gets you to 35mg then 61mg is 3½ pints. Totally irresponsible & to my mind unforgivable.
What is roasting?
I suppose every player caught using a mobile phone while driving should be sacked as well then? Just as (if not more) dangerous as you are not even looking at the road.
Our Player of the Season has put his hands up, taken his medicine, and should now be forgiven. Instead of sacking him we should be desperately trying to get him to sign a new contract.
Our Player of the Season has put his hands up, taken his medicine, and should now be forgiven. Instead of sacking him we should be desperately trying to get him to sign a new contract.
Not sure what point you’re making there Tony wih that sarcasm... but as the joke goes, its the sober drivers you need to look out for as they cause the most accidents.
Kevin, all ifs and buts, but his actions subsequent to the offence are dictated to him by the conditions he faced on the road.
Kevin, all ifs and buts, but his actions subsequent to the offence are dictated to him by the conditions he faced on the road.
Lucky no one stepped out in front of him or he may have ben a little late on the breaks. That’s where Geoff is coming from I think, the line when drunk between a missed trafic signal and potentially knocking someone down is due to the lottery of chance.
That’s exactly the point Nick. When you get behind the wheel drunk then you are endangering everyone else on the road be they drivers, riders or, pedestrians. Your reactions are slower & you are less aware of what is going on around you.
It might be worth checking your contracts of employment as in my experience many say that if you are
found guilty of a criminal offence which could bring the employers reputation into disrepute it MAY be treated as gross misconduct resulting in dismissal. I’m sure Pienaar’s doesn’t say that so good luck to him but as far as I am concerned he is persona non grata.
For fuck’s sake this is beginning to sound like the inquisition from some quarters. God help and protect us from the indignation of the morally incorruptable and those who have never sinned nor ever made a mistake!
Even Jesus (if you believed in that kind of stuff) preached that one of the tennets of Christianity was the ability and willingness to forgive those who sin didn’t he? Peanuts has ’sinned’ and the law has punished him for it. It is unreasonable to expect that he (or anybody else for that matter) should be punished twice. Especially via the vilification of moral vigilantes, choked by their own fucking halos.
Well I for one forgive him his sin. I would urge him not to commit the sin again and on that basis I have personally put it behind me.
By the way Peanuts (if you are reading this) thank you for your contribution to the team effort this season. It was your return from a long injury that marked the start of a defininite improvement in form and results and....get a cab next time eh!.
Even Jesus (if you believed in that kind of stuff) preached that one of the tennets of Christianity was the ability and willingness to forgive those who sin didn’t he? Peanuts has ’sinned’ and the law has punished him for it. It is unreasonable to expect that he (or anybody else for that matter) should be punished twice. Especially via the vilification of moral vigilantes, choked by their own fucking halos.
Well I for one forgive him his sin. I would urge him not to commit the sin again and on that basis I have personally put it behind me.
By the way Peanuts (if you are reading this) thank you for your contribution to the team effort this season. It was your return from a long injury that marked the start of a defininite improvement in form and results and....get a cab next time eh!.
Sorry Nick, I was still in a sarcastic frame of mind after reading the ridiculous comments from Geoff. No offence meant to you.
Geoff, it will be fair to imagine that employment contracts in regards to drink driving will be ones were driving is a part of your job, luckily enough Pienaar doesn’t have to drive to play footy.
Also how is he bringing Everton’s reputation ito disrepute?, he is getting vilified as an individual. He was out of work hours. If I get done for drink driving on a Sunday, will that affect the solicitors I work for? Will it f...
Geoff, it will be fair to imagine that employment contracts in regards to drink driving will be ones were driving is a part of your job, luckily enough Pienaar doesn’t have to drive to play footy.
Also how is he bringing Everton’s reputation ito disrepute?, he is getting vilified as an individual. He was out of work hours. If I get done for drink driving on a Sunday, will that affect the solicitors I work for? Will it f...
"When the news broke that an Everton player had been retarded enough to drink under the influence and get charged, I called the guy on these pages a tit... "
It seems you, sir, are the tit - everyone I've ever known who likes a drink prefers to do it under the influence of alcohol!
It seems you, sir, are the tit - everyone I've ever known who likes a drink prefers to do it under the influence of alcohol!
Geoff Trenner
So as far as you are concerned Peanuts is Persona non Grata is he?
How supercilious is that?
Does this mean you will walk out of Eastlands at the weekend if you find he is playing? Will you walk out of Goodison if he is playing against Bolton next week? You can’t pick and choose when you decide somebody is Persona non Grata mate....it is for keeps.
If Everton play him....get him to sign a new 3 year contract, then your own contention about Peanuts should make it impossible for you to watch Everton until, in due course of time, his contract runs out and he leaves.
Even then, you may be so disgusted with the club for employing such a deviant that you could never step over the Old Lady’s threshold again.
Bollocks!!!
So as far as you are concerned Peanuts is Persona non Grata is he?
How supercilious is that?
Does this mean you will walk out of Eastlands at the weekend if you find he is playing? Will you walk out of Goodison if he is playing against Bolton next week? You can’t pick and choose when you decide somebody is Persona non Grata mate....it is for keeps.
If Everton play him....get him to sign a new 3 year contract, then your own contention about Peanuts should make it impossible for you to watch Everton until, in due course of time, his contract runs out and he leaves.
Even then, you may be so disgusted with the club for employing such a deviant that you could never step over the Old Lady’s threshold again.
Bollocks!!!
Sorry its Birmingham at the weekend isn’t it!?
(Shit!)
(Shit!)
Tony, nowhere did I suggest that Pienaar was bringing Everton’s reputation into disrepute!
I simply suggested that people might want to check their employment contracts to see where they would stand were they to be found guilty of a criminal offence.
Clearly if your job required you to drive then you would be in a difficult situation but in my professional capacity (I’m a management consultant specialising in headcount reduction) I’ve seen plenty of contracts that could open up the possibility of dismissal for non-driving staff. I can’t comment on whether this would be considered an ’unfair term/condition’.
In any case, I don’t think that your abuse is justified. I’m entitled to my opinion just as you are, and as far as I’m concerned I’d rather not see him in a blue shirt again
I simply suggested that people might want to check their employment contracts to see where they would stand were they to be found guilty of a criminal offence.
Clearly if your job required you to drive then you would be in a difficult situation but in my professional capacity (I’m a management consultant specialising in headcount reduction) I’ve seen plenty of contracts that could open up the possibility of dismissal for non-driving staff. I can’t comment on whether this would be considered an ’unfair term/condition’.
In any case, I don’t think that your abuse is justified. I’m entitled to my opinion just as you are, and as far as I’m concerned I’d rather not see him in a blue shirt again
Well...you’re going to see him in a Blue shirt again so live with it...or don’t. It’s up to you.
First of all Tony I’m not your ’mate’. As far as I know we’ve never met.
Persona non grata = an unwelcome or unacceptable person (Oxford Reference Dictionary) & I certainly can pick & choose when a person is welcome or acceptable to me!
My love of Everton however is much greater than my distaste for Pienaar’s behaviour so I’ll be at St Andrews at the weekend. I’m not sure how I’ll handle his inclusion in the team, I’ll have to wait & see.
Persona non grata = an unwelcome or unacceptable person (Oxford Reference Dictionary) & I certainly can pick & choose when a person is welcome or acceptable to me!
My love of Everton however is much greater than my distaste for Pienaar’s behaviour so I’ll be at St Andrews at the weekend. I’m not sure how I’ll handle his inclusion in the team, I’ll have to wait & see.
Sorry I meant Dave not Tony!
Tony Williams...
...
My employment contract (and company rulebook) clearly state that drink driving is classed as gross misconduct and a dismissable offence.
I work voluntarily with substance abusers, including alcoholics and many of them (not all) have lost employment through drink driving convictions.
I know a friend who got caught the morning after was finished up by Manweb (scottish power) on grounds of Gross Misconduct...
What i am trying to say is that, in contrast to your post, many companies and employment contracts see drink driving as a major offence due to the public stigma. Thats irrelevant of whether the person drives for a living or not.
The company I work for do consider it a risk to reputation - hence the reason they hold you to good behaviour in a contract.
...
My employment contract (and company rulebook) clearly state that drink driving is classed as gross misconduct and a dismissable offence.
I work voluntarily with substance abusers, including alcoholics and many of them (not all) have lost employment through drink driving convictions.
I know a friend who got caught the morning after was finished up by Manweb (scottish power) on grounds of Gross Misconduct...
What i am trying to say is that, in contrast to your post, many companies and employment contracts see drink driving as a major offence due to the public stigma. Thats irrelevant of whether the person drives for a living or not.
The company I work for do consider it a risk to reputation - hence the reason they hold you to good behaviour in a contract.
Let me quickly point out that I am not of the same opinion as others that all drink drivers should serve time...
I’m not that strict! What i find ridiculous is that he has more than enough financial resources to not have had to drive after drinking - that is the disappointing part of all of this.
He could have kept his licence, reputation and the clubs reputation in tact had he just spent as little as £10 in a delta (or davey liver) cab!
I’m not that strict! What i find ridiculous is that he has more than enough financial resources to not have had to drive after drinking - that is the disappointing part of all of this.
He could have kept his licence, reputation and the clubs reputation in tact had he just spent as little as £10 in a delta (or davey liver) cab!
Maybe no one will want him in the transfer market. Maybe that last statement was me trying too hard to be optimistic.
I agree with Andrew that, though he made a bonehead move, I’m glad he had the balls to take his punishment rather than be a gerrard and try to get away with it.
I agree with Andrew that, though he made a bonehead move, I’m glad he had the balls to take his punishment rather than be a gerrard and try to get away with it.
I wasn’t going to comment on this - the law quite properly has taken its course. But John - in an upper case frame of mind - reminded me of the original post.
Nick emoted - THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
Nothing wrong with that. But in this case, I believe, Pienaar was driving in the early hours of the morning.
Children out at that time - and there must be many - should be the responsibility of the parent rather than an accidental offender, I would have thought.
As for the idea of a professional footballer losing his job for breaking the law. Big Dunc served his time, as I recall. And as good Christian folk should do, we forgave him. Next time he banged a goal in, of course.
Nick emoted - THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
Nothing wrong with that. But in this case, I believe, Pienaar was driving in the early hours of the morning.
Children out at that time - and there must be many - should be the responsibility of the parent rather than an accidental offender, I would have thought.
As for the idea of a professional footballer losing his job for breaking the law. Big Dunc served his time, as I recall. And as good Christian folk should do, we forgave him. Next time he banged a goal in, of course.
He’ll be sold after the World Cup, so many of you will get your wish then. Until then, you’ll have to put up with him and his sublime talent for another ten games or so. I still like the lad despite his error of judgement.
He hogs the ball too much and loses possession with his delusional passes that end up either hospital or behind the player. Bloody fustrating having him in the side.
Nick, I do normally enjoy your contributions, and this is not a personal attack, but I am going to call you on this:
"Not sure if people misread my post, but I did say I am NOT looking for any public recrimination from the club.
So yeah, let him put it behind him, but not forget there are standards DM has brought to the playing staff... unless people think we should sign Lee Hughes in the summer."
You said in your first sentence that "an Everton player had been retarded enough"... I’ll ignore that as a throwaway line.
The Lee Hughes reference I know was a joke. But there is a slight difference. Lee Hughes was convicted of causing the death of someone, and fleeing the scene (two crimes). Once found guilty he quite rightly was jailed.
What really grates with me is how far too often "celebrities" get away with crimes that the ordinary man would get done for. Pienaar admitted his offence and took the rap. He didn’t do what other footballers have done and employ the aforementioned Mr Freeman to get himself off on a technicality.
The world keeps turning. Everton will continue to make us happy, and then sad. And I will look forward to your next contribution!
"Not sure if people misread my post, but I did say I am NOT looking for any public recrimination from the club.
So yeah, let him put it behind him, but not forget there are standards DM has brought to the playing staff... unless people think we should sign Lee Hughes in the summer."
You said in your first sentence that "an Everton player had been retarded enough"... I’ll ignore that as a throwaway line.
The Lee Hughes reference I know was a joke. But there is a slight difference. Lee Hughes was convicted of causing the death of someone, and fleeing the scene (two crimes). Once found guilty he quite rightly was jailed.
What really grates with me is how far too often "celebrities" get away with crimes that the ordinary man would get done for. Pienaar admitted his offence and took the rap. He didn’t do what other footballers have done and employ the aforementioned Mr Freeman to get himself off on a technicality.
The world keeps turning. Everton will continue to make us happy, and then sad. And I will look forward to your next contribution!
Jason Lam - time for your meds.
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1 Posted 10/03/2010 at 23:11:38
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We don’t know what sort of "Dressing Down" David Moyes may have given him but he is sure to have done so.
There is no need for SP to be told off in public, to satisfy some fans desire to have him humiliated. I am happy for this to be done behind closed doors.
From all that i have seen from SP this event was totally out of character and i’m sure he has suffered enough for the mistake. Successful people are normally their own worst critic and i’d be surprised if he hasn’t beaten himself up over it.