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What goes through their head?
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First of all, thank you, Joey Yobo for your service; you where great when we needed you but now we have grown into a much better side it was best for you to move on!
Surely Yobo going frees up £20k to £30k a week to spend on a loan signings' wages or why not just sell him, pay a loan fee... or again wages! Birmingham sign Hleb on loan who is a quality player, Birmingham's wage structure surely isn't bigger than ours! Ben Arfa signs for Newcastle on loan ? again their new wage structure isn't bigger than ours and both these players would prefer to be at Goodison than a small club and a relegation candidate.
And if we did make a late bid for Donovan or Bentley why not do it a week ago or well before Deadline Day! And Grafite from Wolfsburg, knowing Yobo was going, why not offer him the extra wages he wanted with the spare money! Or if he didn't want Yobo why not offer him to clubs weeks ago and give himself time to use the wages or loan fee instead of having an hour!
To me it seems really simple!
Chris Hannon, Posted 01/09/2010 at 09:49:02
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I know we've had decent finishes in the Prem in recent years but I think on the whole our club as an overall entity is in a slow decline. I've mentioned before on other threads, other than selling our prized assets, where will the money come from to fund future transfers and wages to suit?
If he was going to sign he would have done so by now. Expect Rednapp to be back for him in the January transfer window with a dirt cheap offer. If Spurs are still in the Champions League he would suit them as he won't be cup tied
I would liked to have seen Hleb come in, he's a good player. Hleb went to Birmingham saying "they wanted me more", not sure who "they" were but that obviously swayed him, Ben Arfa I would have liked to see to but he apparently has attitude problems.
Maybe Joey was lined up to go a while ago and his wages are spent on increasing existing players wages (arteta, Baines, Rodwell etc).
Maybe the extra money will go to Pienaar.
Maybe we need to cut costs and save that cash.
Maybe the money will halp fund a loan for Donovan in January.
The bottom line is we just do know so speculation is usless.
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ro-notebook083110
I would have preferred Joey to have been sold to free up funds but this way at least he is off wage bill and we may have £4mil next summer from a permanent deal.
I honestly think Donovan will be back in Jan. I just hope its full time.
Late deals on deadline day always reek of desperation to me, Sunderland lost frazier campbell for 6 months so break out a major chequebook! Stoke.....wel they are just shit and need anyboday!
The squad is grossly imbalanced and the manager should have used player trading to allow us to address those issues.
Unfortunately he is outdated in his approach and his stubbornness will undoubtedly cost us big this season.
I have said it 100 times and i'll say it a 100 more until people understand; Everton FC is not in a position to carry £30m of talent on it's bench when it still doesn't have a suitable first XI.
Joke management that will completely undermine our entire season.
Most will assume Donovan, but maybe Davey has something else up his sleeve?
Moyes never learns, same mistakes again and again and again.
Re-signing Rodwell was the most pointless thing ever. We are going absolutely nowhere now and he will be away in a couple of years anyway.
We'd have been far better served cashing in and buying the players we needed to actually make something of the here and now...in the hope that our other top players may then be retained LONG TERM.
Under David Moyes, as well as he has done at times, we are always just "2 or 3 players away".
If he had more ability in the market and could player trade like Harry Redknapp for example, then those problems could have been addressed long ago.
In fact...the only time he has excelled in the market is when his hand has been forced by players departing against his wishes.
Food for thought.
Rodwell or Fellaini should have been sold for big money in order to allow us to address the other problem areas.
We have 8 central midfield players and not one wide right player, that is an absolutely ludicrous scenario.
You have perfectly summed up our problem and the massive mistake made by Moyes this summer.
His stubbourness has cost us a massive opportunity as by selling from a position that we have a surplus could have enabled us to buy Donavan and a striker. It infuriates me to see the likes of Rodwell and Fellaini sitting on our bench when inferior players always get their shirt and we have no right sided midfielder at the club.
Someone needs to tell Moyes that selling someone to free funds to purchase someone that benefits the team and balances the squad does not make you a selling club....
Nonsense. The board have failed to provide the funds to Moyes for team strengthening yet again this summer. It is they you should be directing your frustrations at. If the funds had been provided for at least a loan signing, you would not even have contemplated selling one of our best players.
If we'd sold Rodwell or Fellaini to fund new signings there would have been outrage directed at the manager. Do you really think that selling 1 of our best talents would appease supporters? I think not.
We are trying to build a squad, not dismantle it.
totally agree.
Point well made.
The amount of flack Moyes takes on behalf of this totally inept board is beyond comprehension.
He got his winger (Gueye) but could only buy a 1 million one not the 15 million one we really need.
Presumably thats where the rumours about Rodwell started because Bill's response to needing a 15 million winger is "who can we sell to buy?".
How easy it is for Kenwright to sit back and say I'm just a supporter like you.
Before anyone says what about the days of Walter blah blah, well what about teh decades of winning throphies before Walter. 8 years and still waiting for a trophy David.
However, he still need to sort it up and ASAP...
Next, does Everton have a first XI strong enough to justify this position? I'll help you...the answer to both is NO.
So, the rest is just piss and wind. I know Kenwright is a waste of oxygen, I'm not stupid. That DOES NOT exonerate David Moyes of all blame though. His attitude, stubbornness and inability to work the market have left us high and dry this season.
We have a massive surplus of central midfield players, and not one wide right player. I am sorry if it offends, but that is MORE down to piss poor management than it is to Bill Kenwright, as much of a cretin as he is. Get yourself out of Moyes's arse and you might be able to see the woods for the trees.
2. This would also suggest that Moyes realises that we do need another quality wide player.
3. We have known for ages that it was unlikely that MLS would let Donovan go.
If the above three assumptions are correct, why the hell haven't we lined up options other than Donovan?
I would have been happy with Hleb or Ben Arfa. Obinna who is now at West Ham is another who springs to mind. Moyes has tried to sign him before. Why not now? Is Donovan so incredible and unique that it is him or nothing? That seems rather short sighted to me.
'the answer is NO'
Your point being ?
"Get yourself out of Moyes's arse and you might be able to see the woods for the trees."
Me and the vast majority of Everton supporters are wrong then Neil, are we ?
Your view is a minority one. Maybe you should get off Moyes' back and start supporting the team.
My view is a minority view... on internet message boards, populated by lots of people who know everything but don't go to the games. And that's not a jibe... it's a fact.
When I speak to people at matches, it keeps me sane, because there is a far more balanced outlook and far less love for David Moyes. Of course, we who don't really rate him probably are still in a minority... I'll tell you what though, it's a far greater 'minority' than you find on these messageboards.
Neil.
Fair comment and one that I would agree with. When in attendance you will have a full view of how shite our right side is and you will hear all and sundry complain how Moyes still sticks with players who cannot play there. After Wolves equalised I can tell you Moyes was taking a shed load of abuse.
Personally, I would love to know what Moyes thinks post match, because at Blackburn and the 2nd half against Wolves we were dire down the right. This position is now actually assisting the opposition and causing us to lose games - Moyes needs to sort it out as he seems to be going through the entire squad trying to identify who fits the bill, well it ain't Osman or Rodwell.
For me, till we can buy an out and out winger, I would get Arteta back to the right, stick big fella and Rodwell in the middle and Pienaar on the left - with Cahill and Saha up front. Sure everyone wants Arteta lording it in the middle but FFS the opposition, and I mean all the opposition know thats what we do and they compensate by putting at least 1 or 2 markers on Arteta. Then what the fuck is plan B because basically we don't have one. Additionally, at Villa park Arteta was taking abuse from the EFC fans concerning his continuous shite corners and/or free kicks. Hey I know he has off days, and for 75K per week believe me I would have a few, but is anyone allowed to touch a dead ball other than him?
This is such a myth it's untrue, Redknapp has stated over again how he has nothing to do with negotiations but gives the chairman a list of targets. Most clubs do the same.
Moyes has little to do with putting together funds or a package for another player. He identifies them and maybe has an input to the board as to their worth. It is the board who have been woeful in being able to support the manger. To blame David Moyes for the lack of transfer activity is naive at best.
Ask yourself, if you had a team that was only behind Utd and Chelsea since Christmas last year, why would you want to sell any of that squad?
When Fellaini, Arteta etc. get injured,which they undoubtedly will at some point, who steps in? Phil Neville? I'm happy that we keep hold of most of our better players.
If you were talking about clearing some of the deadwood like Vaughan, Yobo etc. then i would fully agree with you point.
Mike, thanks for that post, it is great to know that there are other people out there who can at least be balanced, if not in full agreement with me.
Danny, naive you say... that is you, not me. "Harry said" did he? Look at his record of transfer dealings, it speaks for itself. To suggest every club he has been at has coincidentally had the best negotiators in the business on their boards would be some coincidence, wouldn't you say? Also, he said about 5 hours before the deadline the other day "we are done"...then signed Rafael van der Vaart for a song! What he says and what he does are two very different things.
Further to that, there is concrete proof that Redknapp gets directly invloved, in the form of BBC footage from the documentary he was involved in with regards 'bungs'. He was clearly seen negotiating directly with agent Peter Harrison about the possible transfer of the Blackburn defender, Andy Todd... so I'm certainly not 'naive'... overly informed if anything!
Stephen Kenny, I take your point totally, and in an ideal world I would want to keep everyone. This isn't an ideal world though. It's great to have a monster squad and strength in depth... but only when you have a first XI. Everton are not in a position to have £30-40m worth of players on the bench or in the stands when we don't have a solitary right-sided player and our strikeforce looks so powderpuff. Needs must.
Including utility players, we have EIGHT central midfield players of senior standing, it's overkill. Moyes is not to blame for having no funds, but he has let us down big time with his lack of creativity IMO.
The glaring weaknesses in our side will undermine the entire campaign and, sadly, contracts or not, I think the likes of Rodwell and Arteta would be fully in their rights to look at moving on next summer should things pan out as woefully as they are looking like doing. He has let everyone down IMO, the fans and the players.
Sell a CM (for £10M) + Buy a RW (for £10M) = Parity + add Balance to the team = Improved team!
Injuries happen its about having balance, we are in more need of cover on the right than in the middle?
I said, "To blame David Moyes for the lack of transfer activity is naive at best"
Which it is!
Never said Redknapp had the best team of negaotiators at every club, look at the mess left in his wake though, Bournmouth, Pompey, Southampton, West Ham, all been either in administration or certainly dire straights. He does love to get players in I will give you that. I have never seen this footage so will take your word for it Neil, maybe he was negotiating his own cut of the deal(insert joking smiley here).
I stand by my point that it is the board who have let Moyes and the rest of us down with lack of backing. Id rather we waited and spent our limited funds on a top player rather than waste money on some kind of stop gap like say Pennent. The problem is we should only be signing top class players now and they are harder to come by, especially with our budget.
That is a ridiculous imbalance and not one the manager should have needed fresh funds to address.
Generally, when he does move, he has signed good players. The problem is though, he is way, way too slow and seems to lack any imagination when it comes to player trading. The only time we have had any kind of serious blast in the market is when player sales have been FORCED.
You can sell a top player without it automatically making you a "selling club" you know...you can do it for the right reasons...when it is the best solution and the right thing to do.
Conceivably we could have let either of Rodwell or Fellaini go without it weakening the team in any way shape or form.
I know Evertonians have a mental issue with this, I think it is some small minded mentality or fear of being belittled by Liverpudlians.
The fact is though, it would have been the right thing to do at this point in time and would have benefited the club.
To go into the season so piss poor offensively as we are is really criminal mismanagement on Moyes' part.
"Conceivably we could have let either of Rodwell or Fellaini go without it weakening the team in any way shape or form."
In theory, yes.
But do you really think either the manager OR SUPPORTERS would have tolerated losing either of those two? One who last season began to show us what he is really capable of before he got injured, and the other who in many people's opinion is one of the emerging top talents in England ? Moyes would have been on very dangerous territory if he had done that, and it would have sent out all the wrong signals.
Yes, we are imbalanced with more central midfielders than wide players. If Bilyaletdinov had turned out to anyway decent when played wide, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he hasn't, and no funds have been provided for even a loan signing, so we are going to have to make do. Probably with Anichebe, or Coleman, or moving Arteta, or whatever. I suspect funds would have been made available for Donovan at the right price, but ONLY him, and possibly because the money could have been recouped in merchandising, etc. That one could still happen.
On your other point, as a match-going supporter you have every right to boo if you are not happy about substitutions, etc. But it is the likes of you who the players need supporting them when they are out on the pitch. You probably know this, which would explain your need to blame someone else when things don't go well. And the manager is always the easiest target.
You know as well as I do, that if Moyes does not continue to receive the backing of the majority of match-going supporters he will walk, If he does, the squad will break up and we will have to start from scratch again. With the same board and a new manager who is happy to work with no money whatsoever. It doesn't bear thinking about.
"After Wolves equalised I can tell you Moyes was taking a shed load of abuse."
Proves my point about managers being an easy target for the fans' frustration.
Should not the 'shed load of abuse' have been directed at Saha who bottled out of the tackle, or the referee who didn't blow up for the foul?
Have a read of a very long post I have made in response to Alan Clarke's fan article about Moyes on the homepage, because I don't want to repeat myself. If you can answer those points then I will better understand the justification for not selling one of these players, or Tim Cahill for example. I have gone into great detail.
And, in relation to your response to Mick Gwyer, i'd say it's more 'apologist' excuses I'm afraid. Yes is the answer to your question; you could have said both or either of those things and had a point. But that would be to hide from the fact that, irrelevant of Saha's mistake or the referee, Wolves fully deserved their equaliser on the balance of play. They came out 2nd half and penned us in... on our own ground. The Everton performance was completely unacceptable and that, I am afraid to say, is down to one man... David Moyes.
There is always an excuse to hand if you want to reach for them... it's not my way though. I want the best for the club and the best for the team. David Moyes is not that.
I will be reminding you of this when we end up with Gary Megson as our next manager.
Why sell the most promising player of his generation when you could sell player's who havent had a look in for month's and are seemingly surplus to requirements?
Clearly Osman cant get in our side anywere other than the right hand side? If he's not good enough, which IMO he clearly isn't then sell him, sell Victor, throw Vaughan in and get a fee for Yobo and bob is most likely your uncle!
Sell the best player of his generation and regret it for the next decade as he smashes yet another goal past us and kisses another team's badge. We have a big enough squad to not have to do things like this anymore.
I agree with everything you said.
Gary Megson? Why... on what basis?
Is that the logic then is it... "we have to keep Moyes because... Gary Megson".
Sorry, I don't get it.
For the salary we are paying Moyes ? transfer budget or no transfer budget ? we could get a top level coach, make no mistake. I'm down to earth, my personal choice would be Mark Hughes. He is only on a 2-year deal at Fulham and we could take him out of that no problem.
Each to their own. One thing I know for sure... we have no need to be thinking we can do no better than Gary Megson. If that is where you set your expectations then it's no wonder you wildy overrate Moyes.
Opinions aren't 'irrefutable sense', Neil, they are merely opinions. Yours or mine. They may make sense, but they certainly aren't irrefutable.
You seem to assume a new manager would be offered the same salary that Moyes is now on. I suspect they would have to prove that they could work miracles with no money first, before they would be offered a comparable salary. Which of course would rule out most of the best coaches, leaving us with little choice.
Whether you like it or not, most of the players seem to respect and like him. Even Yobo said as much after leaving yesterday. Sorry, I've just remembered you don't like him either after lambasting him yesterday, and having now read your post on the other thread, there doesn't seem to be many players left that you do like. So maybe then you won't be bothered when the squad breaks up after he's gone.
And although the word 'apologist' doesn't really bother me that much, your repeated use of it is becoming quite tiresome.
As for Bham and Newcastle having smaller wage budgets...they both get the same TV money, Newcastle get more fans through the gate, Birmingham have a smaller debt.
Turning to Moyes...I agree with Brendan, Moyes is slow, but he probably does not want to make a mistake. The board cannot provide funds, Bill K. is not wealthy and Robert Earl has had some hard times. Jon Woods is a wealthy scouser, but he's not football-wealthy. Cash will come from sales and Moyes wont sell his best players - he has the imagination of a brick.
It's been mentioned by myself and others before though....where is the money going to come from in the next couple of transfer windows? It can only come from selling off players.
"But the writing has been on the wall since last autumn, ever since Yobo decided a head injury sustained before a match at Stoke meant he couldn?t board the plane for the trip to Benfica"
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2010/09/03/dave-prentice-stadium-of-fright-sealed-yobo-exit-100252-27191583/
It is frustrating that for years we have known we need a good right winger, we tried to get one in Simon Davies but he then decided we wanted tocome in all the time to the middle and was quickly ejected after his one goal in a season.
The problem is, is that there aren't that many, affordable, options for us, Even the England team has problems there, in that Lennon and Phillips are fast but are also shite with the final ball.
We need a good right winger, Moyes knows this but when he has actually had money to spend, has there been one for sale?
Dear God man...what planet at are you on?
You win, I can't argue that. It's utterly fucking stupid, but I've got no answer for it.
Here am I sitting in a tin can
Far from the world
Planet Earth is BLUE
And there's nothing I can do.....
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1 Posted 01/09/2010 at 14:03:18
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Yes we could have done with a goalscorer but is it worth wasting the wages saved on Yobo on Grafite who is a bench warmer at Wolfsburg and is unproven in Prem? We should trust Moyes and welcome Donovan in January to fire us to Europe.