The Mail Bag
Time, gentlemen, please
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Can you imagine the mixed emotions if Jags had thundered a 4-3 winner into the top corner only to turn round and see Martin Atkinson calling time and casting an eye towards Fergie for approval? Did Jags hear the whistle and give a "sod it" effort, or was it a genuine attempt? Perhaps we?ll never know.
However, the debate is around the added time: 2 goals scored in this part of the game, at the very least, 30 seconds to be added for each goal. This leaves 4 minutes to play yet he blows on 3:30 ? 30 seconds short. We complain about inconsistency between referees, but what about when one referee can have his own double standards?
When Michael Owen scored in the Manchester derby in the 6th minute of 4 added minutes to win the game for Utd, the ref added over a minute because Bellamy scored in added time. And the ref was...? Martin Atkinson.
Who can forget the Villa game at home in 2008. Lescott makes it 2-2 with 30 seconds left of the 3 added time. 90 seconds is added for the goal and Villa score in the 95th minute. And the ref was... ??? Martin Atkinson.
This probably explains Moyes?s temper at the end as he had the flashback of getting ripped off two years ago by the same guy ? the same guy, we all remember, who also stood back and let Liverpool kick us off the park last season at Anfield. How can the same idiot add 1-2 minutes in those games for a goal yet just 30 seconds for two on Saturday?
Maybe like Rugby, we should play on until the ball goes out of play, whilst the 4th official assists with accurate time keeping, taking the onus away from certain referee?s who are consistent with their inconsistencies.
David Price, Posted 13/09/2010 at 18:16:49
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I doubt whether he heard the whistle.
So it was a miss for me.
We play under different rules to the Sky darlings and always have.
Will he even be questioned about his inconsistencies?
There should be a timekeeper in the stands who only stops the clock for stoppages and not the final whistle. This would take away the human element where the actual clock sounds the whistle.
Let's be honest, common sense usually dictates as 9 times out of 10 the whistle goes as a goal kick is taken or the keeper launches one ? it's almost accepted. So why decide to blow just as though it looks like one of the most dramatic comebacks in living memory unfolds??? Fear or Fergie??
Personally I'm hoping that Moyes can use this as the siege mentality opportunity it should be... the little bit of "no -one likes us" to turn the players and the season around.
One thing worth noting though... Atkinson has been dropped to 4th official this week, although I'm sure that will be low key!!!
Don't see why we need to have time keeping taken away from the ref. Hardly difficult no? Stop his watch when there's injury, and then start again. Indicate at 3:44pm and 4:44pm to the 4th official how much injury time is to be played.
But does anyone know the rule for when you do blow the whistle? Surely when time is up regardless of play.
It was interesting to listen to Richard Gough and Owen Coyle on goals on Sunday talking about officials. Coyle stated what i think most of us know that it is a complete myth that these bad decisions even themselves out over the course of the season, whilst Gough stated the bigger clubs get the rub of the green with the decisions as he recalled when he was at Rangers they influenced the refs and got decisions that if it had been any other club in Scotland except Celtic they would never have got.
It is also never going to change, as i can't see Mike Riley making massive changes to how the refs officiate.
The time it really struck home for me is when i went to watch Wales play Russia at the racecourse ground in the late 1970's and Bob Paisley walked past me to his seat and about 10 seconds later i saw this gentleman pushing past people shouting Mr Paisley, Mr Paisley as if this bloke had seen his master and to my horror it was the gobshite himself Clive Thomas.
I think people have been on about 4 or 5 different threads on this website.
The ref messed up, the FA have responded by demoting him to 4th official. Spilt milk & all that. Fair result and a great one for us given the circumstances. Best game I've seen in ages and I reckon it'll be exactly the spur we need for the rest of the season.
The same when Joey barton scored for Citteh a few years ago, the time was well and truly up but teh ref allowed the attack to finish and it ended as a draw.
Most refs allow the passage of play to continue until there is a) an interception b) the ball starts getting passed sideways/backwards c) ball goes out or d) a goal is scored.
Disgusting refereeing and shows that the "sky" teams get preferential treatment and always will
Hold on, that would involve common sense though...
Was it a homage to his mentor or a reflection of Graham Taylor and Phil Neal grasping at straws for England with Round reprising Phil Neal.
"doth protest too much, methinks"
Ref's normally blow up when the ball is in the air or in a relatively safe area of the pitch, but when you play the Sky 3 they'll blow if there's danger looming!
Last year when Utd beat City he played 6 minutes of injury time when 4 minutes had been put up by the 4th official - Bellamy scored in injury time, but Owen scored in the 6th extra minute - he added 90 seconds on for the goal. Strange he only added 30 seconds when we scored 2 goals on Saturday.
As for Jags... I honestly don't think he'd have scored ? nose bleed time!
F A you are as fair as Iran loves christianity !
COYB
I was interested to see how long the referee would leave him on the touchline before he'd be reintroduced, the ref blew his whistle to restart and waved Vidic immediately back on!
I remember an incident involving a clash of heads between our centre backs a number of years ago when they were left on the touchline for a minute or so while the ref looked for a good time to reintroduce them!?!?
So here's a thought... every time a player leaves the pitch for an 'injury', he must serve a minimum of 5 mins off the pitch? If you?re injured you'll be off for longer than 5 anyway, if you?re cheating you'll look like a tit seeing your team mates struggling. Takes more of the time keeping issues off the ref, might be a bit of a leveller in terms of teams cheating to run down the clock and it gives the waste of space.. I mean 4th official something constructive to actually do.
However one up side and one down side.
Upside, massive reduction in stoppages and gamesmanship to break up the opposition's momentum.
Downside, introduction into the football vocabulary of Power Play... Eek!
It was a bit like that on Saturday when one of the Utd players (Nani?) went off to the changing rooms. I'm sure if Jonathan Pierce was commentating for MOTD he would have brought it in. Does like to say quarterback now and again.
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You could be talking about Cahill himself there... He was 'doing a Cahill' several times during that match... We can't realy have a go at the opposing players 'play acting' when our own employ it extensively.
No doubt you missed it.
Yes the ref can basically blow at anytime to the exclusion of if a penalty is in progress... But they surely have to stand by some sense of common sense - they are professionals.
Sometimes, no often, officials get a raw deal... But by acting like this ref (especially given his erratic time keeping in the past) how can the FA simply demoted him to fourth official without a more formal statement? It's sickening. Given Capello's off message declaration that he's going to quit England post-European Championships regardless of the outcome after the clowns gave him a contract extension, you'd have thought that they might want to show themselves in a more positive light... Instead they're just cowering about as usual. There are many ways in which football could be tweaked without ruining any of the fundamentals, it doesn't all have to be technology based but the FA have to ensure their "inicitves" are not only carried out in the first couple of games, consistency rewarded and supported by ensuring that they work with the officials to develop their current and future directives. I'm sure they do work with them a lot... But there should be more accountability - and mostly on the side of the FA, at least then they may gain back some respect.
Independent timekeepers, officials behind the goals, video ref, hawkeye etc are all currently used in other codes but Football wants to stay in the dark ages. Move on FIFA.
Nani could have walked off with a bloodied nose - why is it so accepted that a cut nose requires you to lie prone on the ground? Just jog off you tart! I remember commenting to a friend at that moment that in the World Cup we saw Paintsil stretchered off with a broken nose in the same week that an Aussie Rules player jogged off with a trainer needing a full knee reco.
Football is just so accepting of this tart mentality.
But I think theirs a difference going down (desperate to think of another way of putting it) and moaning to the ref for a free kick , and going down like you've just been shot inorder to 'win' a card for your opponent.
We all know video evidence won't be used anytime soon, so there's no real reason not to introduce measures like this, other than it might penilise teams with their own amateur dramatics societies.
Let's face it, there should be no place in football for this sort of playacting. Two players have recently had serious leg injuries and they made less of a meal of it than some of the pansies I've seen rolling around, head in hands.
I have despised the actions of professional footballers suffering piss weak injuries for a long time now. I gues it coincides with emigrating to oz and watching a lot more rugby union. what you see those guys put up with in the ruck is bordering on superhuman. Another thing I would like to see adopted from rugby is the professionalism shown by the players when even a blatantly wrong decision goes against them, you don't see half their team surrounding the ref swearing their head off at him do you. Quite a few years ago it was meant to have been trialled that mass bickering with the ref would cost you 10 yards at a free kick, another good idea fallen by the wayside.
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1 Posted 14/09/2010 at 04:54:02
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I believe this method has two beneficial components; firstly the game referee doesnt have to monitor the time, there's so much happening on the field I often wonder how they add extra time and the second, and most important, is that the game actually runs for the amount of time allocated. When a goal is scored the clock stops and restarts when the game recommences.
When you watch a game on TV the clock shows exactly how much playing time remains.
One of the things I've always wanted to do but never have is time an EPL game to see how long the actual game goes for and see how close to 90 minutes it actually is.