He did buy a right winger once, some lad called Andy van der Meyde...

Would people stop this crap about World Cup Final man Heitinga... so was Dirk Kuyt.

All my opinions at the minute are scattered through a number of different articles on TW and they all boil down one thing: my shear and utter frustration with David Moyes.

I am so close to just saying "fuck it" and check back at Christmas or so to see how we've got on. That obviously will never happen but it does go some way to describing the levels of frustration that we are forced to endure.

All the things you've listed Matthew are IMO spot on and they are the views of most Evertonians. The pure obviousness of it is blinding.
If it aint broke don't fix it...well it has never been more broke and needs immediate attention.

What does Moyes have to lose in playing Coleman, Yakubu, 2 strikers, Heitinga at centre half, Fellaini at defensive mid and dropping Osman.
If he considers all these things risky then fair enough but its already at rock bottom and can't get worse so is surely worth a try. Surely???

And you've hit it on the head regarding the treatment of young players. He simply doesn't have the skills to bring them through. Rooney was bursting at the seams looking to play football and Moyes fucked it up with 15mins here, 20 mins there, start 1 week then not for the next 2.....absolute madness. Rodwell seems to be a little bit more committed and grounded but he still wants to play and deserves to when fit again.

This is my first ever outburst against Moyes and I would always have told people that he was exactly the man for the job but my God I need to vent and I believe he's 80% responsible for this current farce. I now wouldn't care if he went elsewhere because its clear now that his stubbornness is holding us back.

If he axed Howard after the Blackburn game he'd have had to have picked Mucha, who is at best an understudy. What about Howard's brilliant saves against Man U?? The reason he hasn't bought a right winger or proper forward is the usual one...WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...until that gets sorted we will always be in this position.

I agree with everything except for #1 and #3.

#1: Lev Yashin once conceded straight from a corner but that one mistake did not mean he was a lousy goalkeeper.

#3: Hibbert has been one of our better players so far. As a defender, his primary duty is to defend well, and in this he's hardly put a foot wrong.

Liu, I wouldn't bother if I were you. The fact that Hibbert can't put in inch perfect crosses like.....ermmmm.... like Artet....no hang on his are always first man....ermm...like Baine......nope the same usually, what about Pienaar.....sorry no, he just falls over and gets teh free kick for Arteta to hit into the wall or hit the first man.

What was I saying? Oh yeah, peoples views about Hibbert are so entrenched that no matter if he was to be the top scorer this season they would still criticise his crossing, because that all the crap he ever gets is all about. Just a reminder though, who put in the best cross for the "Golden Boy" Jags to head wide? Not too sure, can someone remind me (and before anyone says but it was just one cross, I know it was, but it was the only decent one of the whole game for us)

The issue with Hibbert isn't the issue with Hibbert if that makes sense. Changes must be made to change the whole dynamic of the team and Coleman for Hibbert is one of these changes.

But for all that, I agree Hibbert gets a bad press on here and could possibly even replace Distin in the middle if Heitinga really must stay in midfield.

I'm inclined to agree with most of the posts at the moment in regards David Moyes, although I do beleive he will be asking many of these questions himself.

One of the biggest frustrations that he must feel at the moment is that this is largely the same team that finished so well last summer, perhaps barring a fit Louis Saha.

My fear is that the squad stayed still in the summer, there was no real exicitement in terms of new players with all but Beckford being younsters, and I do believe that new players bring a freshness to the existing players as well as the fans.

Can't help feeling that Moyes really should have tried everything to Land Landon, I would love to know what the real figures the MLS were after really were.

I've still no doubt though that we will get back to winning ways soon, although I like many others had great expectations this season, and sadly in this league you can't afford to give the rest a head start.

Alex, we had £9 million last season which could have got us a right winger, instead we ended up with Bily, who none of us believe is a winger. So far a total waste of money as was not the type of player we required at the time and still looks no nearer getting a start in midfield even with Rodwell injured.

How many Strikers will end their careers under Moyes?

Everton is the Strikers' Graveyard, because Moyes's team ethos is to not concede.

All his strikers have had to live on scraps, whilst tracking back, marking at corners and running the ball into the corners from Neville punts up front.

Matthew, I can't believe I'm about to write this, as I'm a vocal critic of what I preceive as Moyes's weaknesses BUT:

1 & 2:- Despite their mistakes (not Tim's 1st either) & Distin's horror show, I think you have to play them again straight away or risk them completely losing their confidence. It's the old 'get straight back on a bike when you fall off' philosophy, I guess.

That said, Distin should have not been put in that position anyway as Jags/ Heitinga should have been our 1st choice CBs. But, having been put in that position & playing so badly, it would have been counter productive not to let him make amends asap.

As for Howard, he's never convinced me (I grew up watching Big Nev, so modern keepers rarely do). I hope Mucha will improve to genuinely compete but, for now, Tim is the best we have.

3:- I think you're unfair on Hibbert as, whilst he has his faults, he's been generally ok this season. I agree with those who would have kept him at RB Saturday & brought Coleman onto the right wing.

There I've written it, I've defended Howard/Distin & Hibbo, I guess the insanity must be contagous!

Daniel, these strikers you talk of. Every single one has gone on to another team and have done what? If, as you think, Moyes is restraining their natural flair (can't type that without thinking of Meattie and laughing) then why hasn't one of them, when free from the contratints of Moyes done anything of note.

You can't count AJ at Fulham for the EUFA cup final, because he was injured for about 80% of their games.

All the strikers under Moyes know what is expected of him and if they didn't think they could handle a lone striker role they wouldn't have signed, unfortunately none and I mean none of them are in the same class as Torres or Drogba. Saying that even they would struggle with the scraps our midfield give the strikers.

Not sticking up for Moyes here but stating that this is a graveyard for strikers is daft. They're strikers who should be scoring goals... I will always remember one of Meattie's final games against Watford where the big galoot couldn't decide which foot to shoot with and pretty much stood still under the defender took the ball off him. That's not bad tactics, that's being a mediocre player who had one good season, many years ago.

Ok, so mostly bullshit but i'll agree with #4 as we have someone better to play in that role.

Disgusted with our start and Moyes, but you do not shoot straight with your arrows.

Hibbert might not be a marauding full back, but he is one of the best right backs in the prem, when it comes to what he is being paid to do, defend.

Daniel Johnson (10 )

Word for word - you beat me to it..

"Strikers graveyard."

I said exactly that to a colleague today!

Other than Yak before the injury,what is it about Goodison that negates the talent of decent strikers when they come here?

You nailed it perfectly: Moyes' defensive mindset - great shout.

One up top against crap sides - at home?

Do me a favour,Moyes..

Fully agree with TJW and BW, if anyone thinks that Coleman is a better defensive option than Hibbert then you've got to be having a laugh. Surely the screaming out for the inclusion of Coleman is based purely on his attacking ability so why doesn't Moyes play him RM and leave the ineffective Osman warming the bench with his arse. Maybe if Moyes gave it a go it would seem like the team is playing with 11 men for a change. If Arteta is captain material I'll have Peter Beardsley's children.

Tony J , you've come on here lately and put up a spirited defence for David Moyes. I agree with you re. Tony Hibbert. He's a solid defender who needs a proper wide man in front of him. I think it should be Coleman, you may disagree but the fact that it is the hapless Osman is not Hibbert's fault. Incidentally. that is a criticism of Moyes not Leon Osman.

Some of it is right, the Howard point is plain fucking stupid though. He's one of the best keepers in the Premiership, you don't drop a keeper after one mistake unless you are simple.

Distin £5mill...why could have just brought Lucas Neill in on a free
Bily, the lad's got talent but why spend £9mill on a player why isn't a winger, has no pace...he's basically a tall Osman. I reckon that money could have been spent in a few better ways i.e. a decent pacey winger or striker

My fustrations lie firmly with the manager.

1. We have no right sided midfielder and no real strikers. We do however have an excess of central midfielders / centre halves. Common sense says sell from the position of strength and strengthen the weak positions. At the moment Moyes has not got the bottle to drop any one of Jagielka, Distain or Heitinga, all of whom have been crap so far this season - and yes, that includes everyones favourite 'The Jags'. Moyes solution to this selection headache is to play them all so meaning Heitinga is played out of position and to accomodate this so too is Fellaini - madness ! Why did we not accept a £16m bid for Jagielka and the £6m for Yakubu - with that money we could have bought both Donavan and a striker, so making us an infinately better team. Yes we would have sacraficed a couple of good players but the TEAM would have been better.

2. Why is it that the only time we get people into the box is during bloody injury time. Its no coincidence that we start creating chances when we actually commit players forward. Man Utd had 6 players in the box for their winner against the shite yesterday. The only time we have 6 players inside the box is when we are defending a corner !

3. Why does Moyes continue to play Osman as a right sided midfielder. The bloke is just basically shit in this position. I am not having a go at Osman here, he is a usefull centre mid but a hopeless right mid and how Moyes continues to pick him there is just beyond me.

4. Am i being paranoid thinking that Moyes was trying to prove a point with Coleman on Saturday. Did he purposely put him on at right back in one of the few games that the opposition actually had a pacy left winger playing. Did he tell him not to pass the half way line as he may get cought by Ben Arfa and if he did that he would be held responsible for any goals conceeded. Whatever the plan the one certainty was that i did not see the same player on Saturday that i have seen previously, albeit in fleeting occurances. It was obvious that the change on Saturday should have been Coleman for Osman with Hibbert carrying on looking after Ben Arfa.

5. What is Moyes doing picking Beckford in a 4-5-1 ahead of Yakubu. The bloke is a third dividion forward, simple as. He certainly does not have the ball control top act efficiently as a lone striker, a position that demands an ability to hold the ball up. I will give Beckford the benefit of the doubt that he may be able to operate with another striker but as a one up front - do me a favour.

To sum up i genuinely feel Moyes just does not have the bottle to leave out certain players, as such he will pick people out of position to accomodate others. What Newcastle had on Saturday was an energy that i have only seen from everton once this season - against Husddersfield when Moyes picked his reserves. Rodwell is a must start for us in his favourite position when fit but we all know he would not be playing there now if fit. Moyes is better suitesd to an injury crisis when he can get 11 men onto the pitch and generate the team spirit to achieve results - as soon as he has decisions to make he is hopeless. Mark my word, our season will pick up when we get some injuries. Untill then sit back and watch with continued bemusement at the teams we put out. For what its worth, my team at the moment would be :-

GK. Howard
RB. Neville (we just play better when he plays - would he have accepted what was going on on Saturday ?)
LB. Baines
CB. Jagielka
CB. Heitinga
RM. Coleman (Anichebe when fit)
CM. Fellaini
CM. Arteta
LM. Pienaar
AM. Cahill
F. Yakubu

Matthew: re TH ? I assume you did not see the cross of the game on 27 mins which Jags could not convert? Nor did you see (or is that choose to see?) Giggs hack him down last week? BTW he still delivered a fantastic cross.

Take it that you missed Seamus not managing to tackle Nolan (yes Nolan) in the move where he should have been red carded.

Not sure about Distin (not Dustbin) and I had him as MotM for us on Saturday.

Never been sure of Tim, but to be fair, against MU ? magnificent.

Tony (No 6): Exactly, and thank you sir. Balance.

It's on other threads, our "Top players" are not playing.

MA - Questions and Tony's comments above are both hillarious and so damningly sad.

Finally, the team on the post above; the rest of this sitew want JR ? I know he is injured.

Also 4-5-1: Given that all teams play 4 at the back it leaves options. Two wide players and three central midfielders, one holding and the rest pressing on then back when needed just needs one up front and bearingi in mind our strenght in depth in midfield then 4-5-1 it should be and before you whinge how can Fellaini Pienaar Arteta Jack and Bily be negative?

Just no-one up front, soz a different thread, but for what it's worth, a thin Yak would do it for me.

BTW- at the back TH PJ TH and LB as long as the 5 know that MF and JR, know that for the big strikers they will have to do a good stint

I put my hands up and admit that I have probably been TWs most persistent of Osmans critics. For years I have been saying how bloody awful he is. Nothing has changed except he is even worse now than ever he was.

I always share criticsm at those who promoted him through the ranks. It amazes me how someone with Ossie's so very obvious deficiencies could ever have been considered for a midfield role in the Premier League. The man is physically small of stature and weak to boot. He cannot tackle nor sprint, he is no good in the air and has no power in his shot. His positional play leaves a lot to be desired and he has not a vestige of prescence.

Some might think I am being a bit harsh on the lad and maybe I am. At the same time I can't help thinking about what he does to justify the kings ransom he is paid.