Moyes has his faves ? See "Osman" and "Hibbert". I have never heard ANY manger say that about two players ? so, even if they are shit, because they are loyal and do as they are told, they will never be sold.

Great ethos for success, Moyes... surely it should be if they are good enough, plain and simple. Unfortunately, Anichebe is another Moyes fave ? he gives the lad a contract and he starts games. Whether he is any good is and always will be secondary to Mr Moyes.

Bakayoko was much better.

No doubt you'll get Moyes apologists on saying "well Moyes sees him in training every day so surely he knows him better than us." Engaging in debate with them is like a broken pencil... pointless. They have an answer for everything, just like Moyes himself, they are masters of spin and rhetoric. If I end up speaking to one at the bar in my local, I nod sagely then pretend I'm going to play pool.

Gents - C'mon now. Regarding Anichebe; "Kool-Aid drinkers and apologists"? In my 14 months in ToffeeWeb cannot remember one Kool-Aid drinker or apologist say anything positive about this fellow.

Clearly we have a case (which is common, routine even, in pro sport) of a God-blessed physique blessed far beyond anything comparable from the neck up of the same person. That's the problem.

Compounding this is Victor is what DM has to accept in competing in the strongest League on earth. He signed a teenager who looked a physical prodigy. It hasn't worked out.

But we ALL see his lack of production. No one has proclaimed him something he's not. No need to add "Kool-Aid drinkers and apologists" as if those pro-Moyes are doing so.

I've always been a fan of Moyes. So, however, I can only think Victor is played for comic effect, and tragi-comic at that!

I burst into tears when Anchibe come on at half-time...

Here we go... anti-Moyes this, Moyes-apologist that...

What the fuck has it got to do with Anichebe anyway? He's shit. There was a bit of potential there and he started to look like he could be an option at right mid in pre-season but, no, he's shit.

Not sure if I'm a Moyes-apologist or anti-Moyes. I just think Anichebe is shit.

I said this before and got slated, Victor was blessed by God with that physique same as Micah Richards. James Flynn #4 summed up in a nutshell, "..far beyond anything comparable from the neck up.."

God is fair afterall.

Anichebe has got less heart than the lion out the Wizard of Oz.

This, coupled with his inability to pass, shoot and tackle, make him the worst all round player to wear the shirt since Nyarko.

Frank (#8) ? to continue your Wizard of Oz line, that's where our blessed leader was last night. The Guardian's verdict? 'It might have been so much more if it only had a heart'. How fucking apt is that?

Just because someone likes Moyes does not mean they like Anichebe. I am a Moyes fan but I think Anichebe is terrible and have done for years. I am sure all 80,000 fans that go to Old Trafford every week don't agree with every team selection Alex Ferguson makes but that does not make him a bad manager.

And before everyone starts, I am not trying to compare Moyes with Alex Ferguson, I am just trying to make a point.

Nyarko had more talent in one finger than Vic has in his whole body. He was a lazy selfish shite, granted... but he did have talent.

It's not all Vic's fault ? he is shit and well all know it, but he wasn't the only one on the pitch who was shite last night...

Bily ? can ANYONE tell me how he's worth £11m if Rooney was worth £25M? Jesus Christ. He's had his chance ? fuck him off back to Russia. We'll not even be able to sell Coco The Clown in the Summer now as he's hurt his ankle. Where else (other than Baines) will we get any cash from?

We get Beckford and everyone else buys £25-£50M strikers ? what does that tell ya?

We're a laughing stock. Again.

No prizes for guessing which way this thread is going, nobody will disagree surely... well yes I do.

Peter.

I`ve seen many a post defending Moyes from what people believe is unfair criticism ? wrote a couple myself, ? but I'm yet to see a single post where anybody has called him the greatest mind in football, forget about all those "regular posts" ? if you can point me in the direction of a single post that says Moyes is even in the top three in England, I'd be grateful.

We lost, so we do the now customary "after a defeat" routine. Every one huddles together and slaughters the increasingly unpopular Vic... If that makes people feel better then fair enough.

At least it's fair enough if you want to overlook the fact that we were losing this game before he even got on the pitch.

It's fair enough if, you had screamed for Bily to play and you want to pretend he didn't look a twat because he doesn't have a competitive bone in his body.

It'sfair enough, if you want to overlook the fact that Coleman was in the arse pocket of a Championships team's reserve player, missed a golden opportunity and once again was so dire he had to be dragged off.

It's fair enough if you called for Jags return and once again he let us down costing us the game.

It's fair enough if you except Saha's abject performance.

It's fair enough if you want to overlook Beckford's no show or his impersonation of a lampost ? ball bouncing off him.

It's fair enough if you think that, although we may have to rely on Vic later on in the season, it's a good idea to absolutely destroy this lad's confidence, try to get the message to him, let him know just how much he`s hated.

Moyes recently said of Anichebe: "He doesn't have the belief in himself, but I think if he finds that belief he has the ability to become a very good player."

Fuck Moyes, he was talking shite, lets hammer away at Vic let him face the brunt of it after every defeat ? even if he was only sub, let's boo him, hound him out... because when he`s gone everything will be ok and we`ll go zooming up the league, who knows the FA may also overlook all those abject performances from other players and let us back in the cup.

Victor isn't good enough, all agreed, but to focus on him in a post reserved for him alone let's the rest of them get away with that shambolic performance last night.

Howard, kept the score down, but should have had someone on the line for an easy clearance..
Neville, run ragged by the winger,
Baines outlet but crossed from deep,
Distin, Howard saved his arse.
Jags, didn't win the header for the goal.
Coleman, isolated and lost.
Bily, oh fuck not again.
Arteta, dead ball specialist my arse.
Rodwell, pressure got too much for the lad.
Osman, probably our best player.
Saha, too deep, out of position.
Beckford, chances always fall to him, outside the area play though is depressing.
Big Vic, all of the above in this article.
Moyes, Total accountability at his door for this.
Kenwright, hope hobnobbing with Lloyd Weber for your opening night of The Wizard of Oz was worth it and earns you a fortune.

Enough is enough.

Great retort there, Dave ? not one of them put a proper shift in last night.

Something will have to change soon ? god knows what but we can't carry on like this... surely?

You're right, that's why Everton are shit. Anichebe, there's me thinking the problem was Kenwright being incompetent and having apathetic clowns in the office jobs.

There's a bigger picture on what's wrong at Everton.

David # 17, Kenwright nor anyone in the office had anything to do with the utter garbage on display in our home game against a mid-table Championship side that was missing four of its regular first teamers.

Serious questions must be asked not only of our players but also of our manager of nine years who has proved time and again to be tactically incompetent and unable to motivate his players.

I accept there has been mighty deeds done when we play top clubs but was that less to do with Moyes or more likely due to lucrative transfers in the offing.

As for Victor, a simple change of attitude would make a big improvement in his acceptance by the supporters. Of more importance to the average fan is his battling never give up quality and not if he has exceptional skills.

I doubt that our club employs a sports psychologist to advise on such things. If we did have such an expert he would be flat out dealing with Victor, Bily and a few other of our misfits. Moyes himself would benefit from a few couch sessions.

David @ 17 you are correct, however no matter how skint we are, there is absolutely no excuse for the manager playing a big cry baby with no ability.

I can't remember any other player in recent years who matchgoing Everton fans have disliked more than that big fucking Queen (Anichebe that is, not Kenwright!).

The book has to stop with Moyes on this one I'm afraid ? when he stopped trying in the second half of the Bolton game, Moyes should have pulled him straight off and fucked him off for good.

Nail on head @ 18. Effort and heart is the least we expect. Anichebe's efforts in a blue shirt this season make Nyarko look like Braveheart on cocaine.

Why was Vaughan loaned out and Anichebe given a new contract? It is really beyond me

Vaughan might not deliver goals every time, but at least he gave hope.

Good to see the mob has now moved on from Ossie and Hibbo and have Victor as `the man we love to hate`. Have to say, though, that my own Dad nominates him as `the worst since Bernie Wright` ? whoever he was!

This just gets better and better.

Why can't people see? It's not about how good he is, it's not about his attitude, it's not even about how heavy he is...

Forget Vic, if he has any sense he`ll get to fuck anyway. It's about people like Bily, Coleman, Arteta, Saha, Beckford Jagielka, the whole lot of them getting away with fucken murder because the guy who wasn't on the pitch when the game was lost is taking the flak.

Worst player in history? He got a monumental task trying to be the worst now!

This from people who constantly complain about "papering over cracks".

Bernie Wright was a forward that we signed from Walsall solely on the basis of a very good performance against us in the FA Cup.

I think he scored one goal for us; actually two I just checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Wright

I'm sorry but i can't understand how anyone could defend Victor Anichebe. He has shown game after game that he is a Championship player at best.

Yes, the rest of the team was shite last night, but in the past there have been periods of time when they have been playing at a much higher level in the Premier League; this in my opinion cannot be said for Victor.

As Evertonians we have always laughed at Heskey but to me Victor is a poor man's Heskey, ie, always sitting on his backside and about as useful in front of goal as a glass hammer. He has scored 7 goals in 80+ league games.

To be honest, I blame Moyes on this matter. He keeps on involving him in first team squads and so he gets what he deserves.

My younger brother Tommy has more fight and grit than Anichebe and that's saying something, believe me!

David Thomas

Not a defence of Anichebie, more an attack on other wasters who are getting off scot free, I`d be amazed if he averaged more than 10-15 minutes on the pitch in those 80 games, but then you know that don't you?

Still you're right, we`ll be fine when Vic's gone.

Pants he may be, but I guess the point of having him renew his contract is that should he move clubs we will get some money for him. Too many of our players leave for nothing or for peanuts (peanuts for Peanuts!) because they run down their contract.

Someone will move for Vic, he is a Premier League player and an International. Let's remember Hoffenheim just spent £6m on that waste of space Babel, if we got a sixth of that it would quadruple DMs annual transfer budget.

Victor Anichebe... the modern day Bernie Wright. Having said that, at least Bernie The Bolt would stay on his feet when he was tackled.

Contributes fuck all... absolute fucking waste of space... why oh why have we offered this useless oaf a new long term deal? It fuckin beggars belief... but sums up EVERTON FC.

Dave Wilson, you are defending Anichebe and have done several times, telling us he's better than Landon etc. No he isn't, he's shite, bad attitude bad player. Only person worse is Jo ? who, by the way, Moyes rated very highly also.

Defending other players ? because despite their limitations the have value potential

Jags ? tries his best, gives his all; bad game I agree ? his distribution is pathetic

Coleman ? potential... but he's bloody knackered and should be rested

Arteta ? I thought he tried hard, didn't come off; having a terrible season but (perhaps blindly) I admire him as a footballer and person still.

Saha ? terrible terrible attitude; has been slaughtered most season by people, but unfortunately we have nobody else and he can be quality.

Beckford ? he's a free, needs to play with somebody up front, does score.

Bily ? I confess, I've been a fan in past... but totally changed my mind last night; I know he's not played in the right position but his attitude stinks. He was so bad last night, I made up an excuse for him and just thought he must be playing with an injury... but nothing has come out like this and I now believe he just stinks.

Peter

Sorry mate, you are trying to create an argument so you can counter it.

You may find a few posts where I say Landon was dropped for Vic, that is because he was and people denied it.

You will not find a post where I say Vic was better than Landon. I didn't rate either to be honest.

I think you're the one putting the lame excuses up, Peter: "Jags tries his best" gives his all ? thats ok then, all those costly errors can be overlooked.

"Coleman is knackered" ? what??? he`s played just over 20 games, he`s 22! How can he be knackered? Try "he`s playing crap"

Arteta tries hard and you admire him as a person? ? he wasted every free kick we got, Peter, has done all season.

"Beckford needs to play with some one up front, does score" well when he eventually got here last night, Peter, he did play with someone up front... and he didn't score and we are out.

I`m done with this, I will look forward to when Vic is gone and we are winning everything. Just like we did once we got Hibbo out of the picture.

Dave Wilson ? I'm certainly not suggesting Anichebe is solely to blame for the debacle against Reading. I would like to know if any of those who regularly praise Moyes and his judgement can explain what Moyes can possibly see in him.

At some point in the first half, David Moyes said to himself, 'I need to save this game. Put on Vic Anichebe.' I would like to know how that decision jives with the constant refrain that there is no manager out there who could do a better job.

It's interesting to me that not one of the usual suspects who think the sun shines out of DM's arse has proffered a remotely plausible explanation of what Moyes thinks Anichebe's gifts are. Yet, even after that performance, he will be playing again in short order.

I suspect you are right, Peter. I fully expect to see him replacing Coleman on the right of midfield come Saturday. If so, we should all give him our support and encouragement ? after all, the lad does play for EVERTON!

Dave Wilson,

I agree they were all shite last night and should all be getting stick. However, in my opinion the majority of them have shown in the past that they are decent players but I have never seen Victor look anything more than a Championship player out of his depth in the Premier League.

He might not have started the majority of those 80+ games but, even so, you would surely expect a greater goals return than what he has given us, would you not?

In your opinion, just looking at Anichebe and none of the other "wasters", would you have given him a new contract? Would you have him anywhere near the first team? If yes, what is it that you think he offers the team?

I lost count of the number of times that Victor mis-timed his jump for a header last night (or was he just scared to head the ball at all?). I also had the pleasure of Bily 'playing' just below me last night and, although he scores the odd screamer, we need him off of the payroll and fast!

A right back, a left winger and a top striker are required. For fuck's sake, is anybody else sick to the back teeth of analysing our shitty predicament?!

David,

Vic was a prospect, he may or may not have developed into a decent player. The two years Nolan deprived him of didn't help, that's for sure... and various newspaper reprts have done him no favours whatsoever.

I believe you travel to games, so you will have seen him play well at Anfield and at City ? before the red card, you would have also seen him score the sort of goal at Birmingham last season and in Europe that players with no talent simply would not score. And you have probably heard David Moyes say he could be top notch if he could just believe in himself.

Would I have offered him a new contract? No.

Would I have put him on last night? Yes, I think I probably would. I know Seamus is loved, but I believe he`s been found out and gets more predictable every time I see him play. Rather than ask why should Vic have come on, the question should have been why should Seamus stay on? He had the shirt and once again he was very poor.

Lastly, do I think Vic should be let near the first team? Absolutely not, you`ve heard the boos, you know what the fans think of him, I truely believe they will destroy him and not just as a player.

I have a very long history of defending local boys who I feel don't get a fair crack of the whip, both on here and socially. But I have never heard so much spite directed at an opponent, let alone one of our own. I hate it, really hate it and I don't want any part of it. I`m seriously thinking about not going to Newcastle because I shudder to think about the reception he will get.

I have answered your question as honestly as I can, now I really am done with this thread.

Dave Wilson,

Admit it ? you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You know in your heart of hearts that Anichebe is shite. Yea, he might have done some good things in the distant past (a bit like your other hero, a certain Mr Moyes).

Do you really think you're right about Vic, while 50,000+ Evertonians are wrong? Unlike you, I don't believe Evertonians are stupid or arbitrarily vindictive. I believe most of them are honest enough to say that, if a player is shockingly bad, that he is just that ? shockingly bad.

All the mitigation in the world is not going to change that. What Evertonians see on the field is what they see. They see Anichebe sprawled there for no apparent reason after 5 mins.

He's hopeless. The crowd doesn't make him hopeless... but Moyes repeatedly selecting him doesn't help matters one jot.

Michael

Na, not contrary, you must know by now what a sucker I am for defending local boy.

And 50,000? You`re having a chuckle, get the recording of the recent derby match at Anfield or the one at Eastlands, you will clearly hear Evertonians chanting his name as he played skittles with their defenders.

Tommorow is a funny game, maybe he`ll get his carreer back on course at the ground where it was derailed.

If he starts, put a little Ayrton on him to score... you know it makes sense.