The Mail Bag
The Russian Enigma that is Bily...
Comments (71)
I've watched every home game that Bily has played for us. My opinion of him as a footballer can be summed up as follows:
? Can't Pass
? Can't Tackle
? Can't Head the ball
? No pace
? As a winger he has never gone on the outside
? No confidence
In other words... Shit.
Then witness yesterday... an absolute screamer, best goal we have scored this season... then he embarrasses himself with an air shot my kids could have scored.
He is the player who has scored at least three of the best goals in the last two seasons. What can you make of him?
My own view is that we parcel up his goals on YouTube and get our money back.
Bob Skelton, Posted 10/04/2011 at 11:50:51
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I think the main problem is Moyes's insistence on playing him out wide. He isn't a winger and never will be.
I think he would be best used in the middle; highlighted by his goal yesterday and his other goals he has scored from central positions.
He has got good feet but the problem is he doesn't have the pace to go with them; this is what makes him struggle out wide as he can't get round the full back.
I still think, given time in a more advanced central position, we may find a good player in there somewhere.
One thing, beyond any doubt is that he has got one hell of a strike on him. I would like to see him take more set pieces around the other team's box.
I think he would be best used in the middle; highlighted by his goal yesterday and his other goals he has scored from central positions.
He has got good feet but the problem is he doesn't have the pace to go with them; this is what makes him struggle out wide as he can't get round the full back.
I still think, given time in a more advanced central position, we may find a good player in there somewhere.
One thing, beyond any doubt is that he has got one hell of a strike on him. I would like to see him take more set pieces around the other team's box.
The obvious comparison is with Ossie. On the wing Ossie is gash, put him in his normal position and he has been among the nominees for Man of the Match for each of the last six games.
There's a good player in there... somewhere... I think...
Bily is class... just not where Moyes prefers to play him. On the occasion that he ends up in his preferred position as an advanced central midfielder, we have consistently seen what he can do.
If DM insists on trying to keep playing him as a winger then he is obviously not going to shine.
Also, when has the guy had a consistent run in the team? Not fair to judge him at all at the moment in my opinion.
If DM insists on trying to keep playing him as a winger then he is obviously not going to shine.
Also, when has the guy had a consistent run in the team? Not fair to judge him at all at the moment in my opinion.
Doesn't seem to get a fair go from a lot of the fans. It seems now that Arteta is out; people need a new player to make the scapegoat.
Bily continually gets moaned at for other players' mistakes.
Bily continually gets moaned at for other players' mistakes.
He can pass, you don't really need to tackle much nowadays, and he can shoot and cross. A lot of the time Bilyaletdinov plays passes his team-mates haven't read, but this is often because they're slightly ambitious.
I think the two shots you mention yesterday sum him up, you get players who are capable of both the sublime and the ridiculous in the same match and Bily is one of them. I think that's basically just something you have to accept. One thing you can do though is play him more, praise him and build up his confidence, and inevitably the ratio of sublime to ridiculous will increase.
I think the two shots you mention yesterday sum him up, you get players who are capable of both the sublime and the ridiculous in the same match and Bily is one of them. I think that's basically just something you have to accept. One thing you can do though is play him more, praise him and build up his confidence, and inevitably the ratio of sublime to ridiculous will increase.
Bily needs a run of games, and played in his natural position. Every team can "afford" artists, as long as you have sufficient artisans to make it work.
Kevin Sheedy wasn't really a "bust your gut" kind of player, is he? Yet, people consider him a legend. He's in a team where he has sufficient battlers such as Bracewell, Reid, and Van den Hauwe behind him. People fail to see him make the effort whenever he does, but crucify him for the times he didn't.
Can't wholly agree Bob. Bily can pass in fact sometimes he can play a real killer ball, although I'd agree with Mike he's sometimes over ambitious.
It's obvious he's not a winger no pace and obviously doesn't enjoy it out wide, he's an old fashioned inside forward if you ask me.
It's obvious he's not a winger no pace and obviously doesn't enjoy it out wide, he's an old fashioned inside forward if you ask me.
He definitely does have ability and he certainly doesn't score tap-ins ? but if we have to sell to buy this summer than Bily would be my first to leave. I can't see him ever being an automatic choice to start when there are no injuries.
I would argue that Bily's contributions in the (nearly) two years he has been here more than make up for any howlers he has made. Yes, he is woefully inconsistent but show me a winger who isn't and I'll show you a lying bastard.
He IS something of a misfit though with Everton, doesn't quite seem 100% comfortable WHEREVER he plays, so if someone offers, say, £7 million for him, we should take it. I won't ever speak negatively of him, though.
He IS something of a misfit though with Everton, doesn't quite seem 100% comfortable WHEREVER he plays, so if someone offers, say, £7 million for him, we should take it. I won't ever speak negatively of him, though.
If he was shit, he wouldn't be playing for Russia, would he... but, there again, he plays in his natural position.
I'm surprised he's not used more, in his prefered role, when we're struggling against a team that seems set up to "park the bus". He's one of the very few players we have with the inclination & ability to have a shot from distance ? a useful option when attempts to walk the ball over the line are failing miserably.
I like Bily and often get lambasted for singing up his praises when at work by people who just see him as 'shit'.
This is a guy who sometimes drifts in and out of games but can open up a defence like no other player except Arteta can in the curent Everton squad. People say he is lazy but, if you really want lazy, look no further than Anichebe. I thought he was a bit of a disgrace yesterday, especially when he tried to run the ball out of play and got beat to it by a Wolves player who set up another attack. I would have thought that, as he had come on as a sub, he would do his utmost to impress the boss.
Anyway, enough of that. Bily IS a good player with a fantastic shot on him. If you compare his assists and goals to that of the previous player in that position (Pienaar), you will find he has a lot more and has achieved it in a lot less games.
Bily is a skilful player, just not suited to the physical stuff. Unfortunately the Premier League is more about kicking lumps out of each other than skill ? I honestly believe Barcelona would have to change if they played in the English game.
Great goal yesterday; yes, he is frustrating... however, talking of frustration and goal scoring, how many goals has Beckford scored since January transfer deadline in the Premier League. I believe he has scored more than the 50 million pound "Torres". Money well spent... I doubt it!!
I remember Sheedy getting loads of stick for months until his free kick talents came to the fore. I think this was more because he came from that place behind the Park End than because he never tackled back.
He can pass, and he can score goals. I wouldn't disagree with the other comments, but to say he's shit is a bit much.
If you look at Tim Cahill, all he can do is head the ball, and be a pain in the arse to the opposition... he is one of the best players Everton have seen since the late 80s!!!
Let him and Ossie float around to feed Beckford, and maybe pop up with a goal or three before the season's out.
If you look at Tim Cahill, all he can do is head the ball, and be a pain in the arse to the opposition... he is one of the best players Everton have seen since the late 80s!!!
Let him and Ossie float around to feed Beckford, and maybe pop up with a goal or three before the season's out.
We will probably sell Bily to Spain for around ¾ of what we paid for him and he'll turn out to be a world beater over there because of the style and tempo of play they have.
I like the lad... always have ?he's got tons of ability, dynamite in either foot, and great technique. Yes, he can be a bit powder puff but so were Limpar and Kanchelskis and nobody minded that.
I agree with everyone that he will never be a winger while he's got a hole in his arse (I wonder what the Russian equivalent?) but he looks a different player in his right position, as someone pointed out, just like Ossie.
And that's the problem: when everyone's fit he's 3rd or even 4th choice, and with a paper thin squad it's a luxury we can't afford.
And that's the problem: when everyone's fit he's 3rd or even 4th choice, and with a paper thin squad it's a luxury we can't afford.
The run-in between now and the end of the season should be viewed as an exercise for players such as Bily. Play him in his most effective position as an attacking midfielder and hopefully we will witness a couple more of his thunderbolts.
Whether he is in David Moyes's long term plans remains to be seen, I would hazard a guess that this is unlikely to be the case. Given the comments that Moyes made regarding Jermaine Beckford and reading between the lines, Bily certainly does not fit the desired attributes required and will probably be shipped out if a reasonable offer is received during the summer.
Riquelme: no pace... but a magician nonetheless, just behind the main striker, especially a striker who plays on the shoulder of the last defender, Beckford: play him in the Cahill role then!
James McFadden Mk II
He pisses all over McFadden.
Ok, he scored a cracking goal yesterday but his all-round performance was once again poor. I don't think it matters what position you play him in, he is just not suited to the Premier League. No pace, no physical presence, very little workrate, disappears from a game far too often, and frequently displays the first touch of Frankenstein's monster.
He can't half twat the ball though, but so could the clumsy cross-eyed kid at school with the chunky orthopaedic shoes. He needs to be offering much more than that on a consistent basis to stand any chance of remaining at the club beyond this summer.
I just can't see it suddenly coming good for the guy this late in the day though, and I believe he's already been earmarked for the exit door. The only chance he might have of staying is that we wouldn't recoup anywhere near the amount we blew on him a couple of years ago.
He can't half twat the ball though, but so could the clumsy cross-eyed kid at school with the chunky orthopaedic shoes. He needs to be offering much more than that on a consistent basis to stand any chance of remaining at the club beyond this summer.
I just can't see it suddenly coming good for the guy this late in the day though, and I believe he's already been earmarked for the exit door. The only chance he might have of staying is that we wouldn't recoup anywhere near the amount we blew on him a couple of years ago.
He's got a great left foot when he puts his mind to it. He's not very good off the ball, that's why it's typical for him to do nothing all game and then score a screamer.
Bily. THE HAMMER.
Bob is correct, he is in fact, shit. He would get away with it in a side that can afford a luxury, ineffective, 'two great goals a season' player (like who? analyse, no one!!).
Fuck Off, Bily ? one great goal, a season doth not make!!!!!!
Woah there, Bob! You can't call French players French so you can't call Russian players Russian.
How about playing Cahill and Bily behind the striker?
Good comment, Jimmy #30; particularly if Neville and Heitinga are playing. I think that Osman could also partner Bily behind Beckford. It's innovative. It would be good to have Coleman playing in this formation.
Is the problem Bily? As pointed out above, he isn't a winger. He is an attacking forward-thinking midfielder in a squad heavy on central midfielders. Less so, now Pienaar has gone, but he has a number of players to compete against.
He's not shit. He had a solid if unspectacular game yesterday, aside from his goal. Sadly, people seem to exepct midfielders such as Bily to be dominating games and doing specatular things for the full 90 mins. Sorry, football doesn't work like that.
He played a team role, got a corker of a goal and played some astute passes. Yes, he cocked up a sitter, but any player can do that.
Thanks Bob... I was going to start this debate (again) but you saved me the effort.
In my opinion, someone who can score goals like Bily can should not be sold. At least not until we have given him a fair chance in his natural position.
I know he is frustrating and even I, who had great hopes for him this season, was starting to think that maybe he will be off in the summer. I just think we should persevere with him. Not many have a left foot like him.
He should never be played on the left ever, ever again! I always thought that Bily on the right with Seamus at RB would be a brilliant combination going forward. It would probably be suspect defensively but I bet we would score plenty more goals. Anyway, with the form that Seamus has shown on the wing, I don't think I want him moved.
In my opinion, someone who can score goals like Bily can should not be sold. At least not until we have given him a fair chance in his natural position.
I know he is frustrating and even I, who had great hopes for him this season, was starting to think that maybe he will be off in the summer. I just think we should persevere with him. Not many have a left foot like him.
He should never be played on the left ever, ever again! I always thought that Bily on the right with Seamus at RB would be a brilliant combination going forward. It would probably be suspect defensively but I bet we would score plenty more goals. Anyway, with the form that Seamus has shown on the wing, I don't think I want him moved.
McFadden Mk II is a good shout although I'm not sure he was as prolific as Bily. The lad does score a lot when you compare goals-to-minutes-on-the-pitch ratio.
A gifted player who plays great passes which create scoring chances. Great striker of the ball and good corner taker. Not a very strong player but that will come with a good run in the team. Along with Arteta and Fellaini, one of our three most skilful players.
I would suggest we need to find the right way to use him because players with his ability to create great things from nothing do not come along every day. I am a fan.
A luxury player. He is slow and poor at defending. BUT he is a visionary passer of the ball and has an absolutely amazing shot.
I don't think he works with our current set-up and I'm not sure he works in this league.
But a lot a talent and class. Wish we could figure out a way of making that show consistently.
I don't think he works with our current set-up and I'm not sure he works in this league.
But a lot a talent and class. Wish we could figure out a way of making that show consistently.
Much like Osman ? one goal in every blue moon.... he just doesn't cut it for me.
Both of them are a waste of space for the reasons mentioned. We desperately need other midfielders who have pace, can win the ball and score more regularly then perhaps we can expect to improve and become more consistent.
The people we now have missing à la Arteta, Fellaini, Cahill, Coleman and Rodwell have given the chance again to Bilya and Osman and, although they scored last week and this, they are not good enough to take us to the next level. Magaye Gueye should at least be given more outings as there are signs he has real ability.
Howard #9, that's what Bily said when he first came to the Club: he's not a winger ? he's an inside left.
I reckon come summer and BK is looking to cut the budget our top earner will be moving on while he still has a good reputation and we can get some money for him.
Problem is Arteta's out for the rest of the season and could be getting a rep as injury-prone so we might not get as much as we like.
I reckon come summer and BK is looking to cut the budget our top earner will be moving on while he still has a good reputation and we can get some money for him.
Problem is Arteta's out for the rest of the season and could be getting a rep as injury-prone so we might not get as much as we like.
Not rocket science.
Played in the middle pretty good with the ability to score some amazing goals with that thunderous left foot.
Played out wide, pretty damn poor and exposes lack of pace the kid is stricken with.
Play him in the middle...
Played in the middle pretty good with the ability to score some amazing goals with that thunderous left foot.
Played out wide, pretty damn poor and exposes lack of pace the kid is stricken with.
Play him in the middle...
The only person who wants Seamus to be defender is Moyes...what a shock. Considering Seamus has said numerous times on the radio his best position is out on the wing and not in defense.
I'd rather take the lad's word for it, rather than everyone is a defender or midfielder Moyes.
Bily I feel will be off in the summer..and when he does go, I will wish him the very best.
Since Moyes keeps insisting on playing him out of his natural position..(where have we seen him do that before?? almost constantly playing people out of position then wondering wtf he can't play there). Never the less, he can't tackle, can pass and he can score blinders. I think it would be reckless to sell him.
Keep him just behind the forwards and he'll deliver imo.
Some people seem to think we are god's gift to the premier league...unlike those teams above us with tons of dosh to spend and are able to win the prem and annually play in the champions league..we can ill afford to offload players that have demonstrated they can play in the team. In this case Bily simply has to stay!
I'd rather take the lad's word for it, rather than everyone is a defender or midfielder Moyes.
Bily I feel will be off in the summer..and when he does go, I will wish him the very best.
Since Moyes keeps insisting on playing him out of his natural position..(where have we seen him do that before?? almost constantly playing people out of position then wondering wtf he can't play there). Never the less, he can't tackle, can pass and he can score blinders. I think it would be reckless to sell him.
Keep him just behind the forwards and he'll deliver imo.
Some people seem to think we are god's gift to the premier league...unlike those teams above us with tons of dosh to spend and are able to win the prem and annually play in the champions league..we can ill afford to offload players that have demonstrated they can play in the team. In this case Bily simply has to stay!
Ha Ha
The tired old "played out of position" claim.
Knew that would come up.
Bily has been here two seasons and if he has played as a left winger he must have been sporting dreadlocks for most of that time.
Moyes has tried to accomodate Bily in several positions, he has talent but maybe he is just one of a very long list of players who`s style of play just isn`t suited to the hussle and bussle of the Premier League.
The tired old "played out of position" claim.
Knew that would come up.
Bily has been here two seasons and if he has played as a left winger he must have been sporting dreadlocks for most of that time.
Moyes has tried to accomodate Bily in several positions, he has talent but maybe he is just one of a very long list of players who`s style of play just isn`t suited to the hussle and bussle of the Premier League.
He's got nothing but a decent shot, and for every screamer he's missed a sitter.
He offers nothing by the way of effort, he consistently gives the ball away through poor, lazy passing and rarely shows for a pass for a teamate.
And to top it off he looks knackered after 15 mins.
Undoubtedly the worst £9M EFC have ever spent.
He offers nothing by the way of effort, he consistently gives the ball away through poor, lazy passing and rarely shows for a pass for a teamate.
And to top it off he looks knackered after 15 mins.
Undoubtedly the worst £9M EFC have ever spent.
Dave #41 ? the tired old "denial", how's about we give Tim Howard a shot up front eh? Bily has rarely been played anywhere other than on the wing whilst he has been at Everton unless you have some compelling footage or evidence that 30-odd thousand match goers have missed.
He's come on as a sub most of this season and been put on the wing, do yourself a quick check on any of his goals for Everton and they've all come after he's come back inside into his natural position. If that doesn't float your boat, YouTube any Russian game where he has played and check out where he is on the pitch. But whatever you do, don't let a tired excuse stop you.
He's classy with a great shot and passes a ball accurately, which is more than you can say for a number of other players in our squad. He was recommended (apparently) by Gus Hiddink who is no mug. I don't remember Alex Young ever tackling back but I still think he was great.
To have players who can "do it all" you need a top class scouting system, a lot of luck, and a lot of cash... and we don't seem to have had a surfeit in those areas in the last few seasons.
Gavin,
He's shown nothing other than a decent shot in 2 years to suggest giving him a chance ahead of our most consistent goalscrorer behind the front man would be worthwhile.
Tony,
What's classy about only showing for a pass when you're in 10 yards of space and your oppo has three men on him?
He's been wasteful in possession for his whole time with us, He's lazy and woefully off the pace in every match I've seen him at, which is all at Goodison and a fair few away.
I'd go as far as to say I'd sooner Victor was playing.
He's shown nothing other than a decent shot in 2 years to suggest giving him a chance ahead of our most consistent goalscrorer behind the front man would be worthwhile.
Tony,
What's classy about only showing for a pass when you're in 10 yards of space and your oppo has three men on him?
He's been wasteful in possession for his whole time with us, He's lazy and woefully off the pace in every match I've seen him at, which is all at Goodison and a fair few away.
I'd go as far as to say I'd sooner Victor was playing.
He can't tackle, but he sure is dangerous around the penalty box.
Pienaar, loads of work rate, but he sure was weak around that penalty box.
A tackling holding midfielder will set us up for next season... and I don't mean Felliani.
Pienaar, loads of work rate, but he sure was weak around that penalty box.
A tackling holding midfielder will set us up for next season... and I don't mean Felliani.
I completely agree with Dave Wilson on this. Moyes watches Bily in training every day and has not once played Bily in the centre. He hasn't even switched him there during a game.
Moyes regularly plays players out of position: Anichebe on the right, Osman anywhere across midfield, Neville anwyhere, Coleman in midfield, Hibbert at centre half, Baines on the left wing, Jagielka in midfield, Heitinga in midfield, Fellaini as a striker. Do you not think if Moyes saw something in Bily that suggested he was an attacking central midfielder, he'd have at least tried it for part of a game?
I suspect Moyes thinks Bily is simply not good enough. Moyes knows Bily is just too weak to mix it up in the middle. I didn't realise there were so many Russian football enthusiasts who've regulalry scouted BIly to know so much more than Moyes on this.
I'd love to see a fit Arteta back on the left wing or one of Gueye/ Coleman. Osman dropped back to centre mid in the place of Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov allowed behind Beckford. I really do think this would be a well balanced midfield.
Then again, I'd rather see Beckford up front with Saha in a 4-4-2 but obviously that's out of the question for the rest of the season.
Jimmy (30) & Christopher (31) ? nothing innovative with Cahill and Bily behind Beckford its called the Christmas-tree formation and it went out of fashion with Terry Venables.
Hope you like my Christmas tree :-)
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Hope you like my Christmas tree :-)
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Colin Malone, considering you can't spell Fellaini I will take your opinion with a grain of salt. Fellaini is one of our best players, a one-of-a-kind player that the PL hasn't seen the like of since Viera or Keane. If you can't see that, get your eyes tested.
Christ, instead of Bily - shall we change his nickname to Marmite?
He's clearly not a left winger... I'd give him another season and play him behind the forward or on the right in front of an adventurous full-back.
He's clearly not a left winger... I'd give him another season and play him behind the forward or on the right in front of an adventurous full-back.
Gavin
I don't need YouTube, I`ll leave that to you to do your research, I know who plays where because I watch the games.
I`ll tell something else I know: Every manager, every single manager who was ever in charge of a top flight team has played players in positions "experts" like you would claim aren't their best: SAF (Rooney); EVERY Redshite manager (Gerrard); Ancellotti (Anelka) ... getting the drift? Name me a manager who has never played people out of position? You won't because you can't.
Yet despite having a smaller squad than most ? and therefore more reason to do it ? every time a player plays shite for Everton, we get this piss-poor excuse from you that they have been played out of position. Don't you get it? That's how it works, the individual will ALWAYS be sacrificed for the good of the team.
Next time Bily surrenders possession without so much as a token resistance, Goodison should hold its tongue, remember your little pearl of wisdom... and instantly forgive him.
I don't need YouTube, I`ll leave that to you to do your research, I know who plays where because I watch the games.
I`ll tell something else I know: Every manager, every single manager who was ever in charge of a top flight team has played players in positions "experts" like you would claim aren't their best: SAF (Rooney); EVERY Redshite manager (Gerrard); Ancellotti (Anelka) ... getting the drift? Name me a manager who has never played people out of position? You won't because you can't.
Yet despite having a smaller squad than most ? and therefore more reason to do it ? every time a player plays shite for Everton, we get this piss-poor excuse from you that they have been played out of position. Don't you get it? That's how it works, the individual will ALWAYS be sacrificed for the good of the team.
Next time Bily surrenders possession without so much as a token resistance, Goodison should hold its tongue, remember your little pearl of wisdom... and instantly forgive him.
What I don't understand is, why buy a player who wasn't a winger for his former club and for his country, then try and turn him into a winger?
I think the talent and ability is there with Bily. I just don't think that he can produce it consistently enough in this league. The pace and time allowed on the ball by opposing teams just seems to catch him out.
Come off it, Dave, it's quite clear he's playing out of position, even if he doesnt know it!
Bily isn't quick enough to be a left-sided midfielder nor is he confident enough to take people on.
It would make more sense to play Bily in the middle and Ossie on the wing, "for the good of the team".
First reason: Ossie can get a good combination with Baines, when he hasn't got any sort of an understanding with Bily at all!
Second, his attributed, especially in the EPL, point Billy to be an attacking midfielder.
Alan Clarke... fair enough with your comment, but that attacking midfield role, you don't have to be strong. Fair enough with the two deeper central midfielders, but Bily can surely do that role behind Beckford no problem. It doesn't make any sense.
Bily isn't quick enough to be a left-sided midfielder nor is he confident enough to take people on.
It would make more sense to play Bily in the middle and Ossie on the wing, "for the good of the team".
First reason: Ossie can get a good combination with Baines, when he hasn't got any sort of an understanding with Bily at all!
Second, his attributed, especially in the EPL, point Billy to be an attacking midfielder.
Alan Clarke... fair enough with your comment, but that attacking midfield role, you don't have to be strong. Fair enough with the two deeper central midfielders, but Bily can surely do that role behind Beckford no problem. It doesn't make any sense.
I'm with Ben, Gavin, and Brian on this one: you don't have to be a gladiator to play behind the strikers. What you do need is good feet to play the through ball and a thunderous shot. Bily has both.
If Bily were playing against a park-the-bus team and launched a few of those rockets he has, it would pull them out. They'd have to close him down. That would open up the quick ball to the striker or a quick one-two...
Flexilble players are invaluable for a team that is skint and short on cash. But that doesn't mean every player has to be flexible. Bily just shouldn't be out wide, and he does fairly well in the middle in an attacking role. Add to that the occasional bomb he delivers ? and would do so more often played in that position more often ? surely his stock would rise under those curcumstances and responsibilities?
Isn't that fairly obvious?
If Bily were playing against a park-the-bus team and launched a few of those rockets he has, it would pull them out. They'd have to close him down. That would open up the quick ball to the striker or a quick one-two...
Flexilble players are invaluable for a team that is skint and short on cash. But that doesn't mean every player has to be flexible. Bily just shouldn't be out wide, and he does fairly well in the middle in an attacking role. Add to that the occasional bomb he delivers ? and would do so more often played in that position more often ? surely his stock would rise under those curcumstances and responsibilities?
Isn't that fairly obvious?
I`ll tell you what is obvious, Jamie:
The people who howl about players being played out of position have just painted themselves into a corner ? give em enough rope...
After years of battering away at Ossie for being shite on the wing, they are now advocating it ? and at a time when he is consistently our best midfiled performer!!!
The more you raise this argument, the more it sounds like Moyes bashing for the sake of it.
Moyes does not have a player for every positon, you know that and that's why you keep shying away when challenged to name one. But it still doesnt stop you complaing about it AFTER the game.
The people who howl about players being played out of position have just painted themselves into a corner ? give em enough rope...
After years of battering away at Ossie for being shite on the wing, they are now advocating it ? and at a time when he is consistently our best midfiled performer!!!
The more you raise this argument, the more it sounds like Moyes bashing for the sake of it.
Moyes does not have a player for every positon, you know that and that's why you keep shying away when challenged to name one. But it still doesnt stop you complaing about it AFTER the game.
Dave, is it a co-incidence why the majority of people here disagree with you?
Yes, Moyes doesn't have every player for every position, but even when all of our players are fit, we still don't. Which needs addressing big time.
If you claim to watch all of the games recently, Osman has stepped up magnificently, on both the left and the middle. Yes, he is better in the middle, but Bily has been useless on both flanks.
So what's the common sense route? Play Osman on the left (yes, not his best, but is still playing very good) and play Billy in the middle (surely he could be better). I also say this so Baines can get in the game. Playing a right-footed player on the left makes Baines a lot better player.
What's wrong with that? And answer points, Dave, please instead of ignoring some sense people have said on here and just attacking people for the hell of it.
Yes, Moyes doesn't have every player for every position, but even when all of our players are fit, we still don't. Which needs addressing big time.
If you claim to watch all of the games recently, Osman has stepped up magnificently, on both the left and the middle. Yes, he is better in the middle, but Bily has been useless on both flanks.
So what's the common sense route? Play Osman on the left (yes, not his best, but is still playing very good) and play Billy in the middle (surely he could be better). I also say this so Baines can get in the game. Playing a right-footed player on the left makes Baines a lot better player.
What's wrong with that? And answer points, Dave, please instead of ignoring some sense people have said on here and just attacking people for the hell of it.
Ok I`ll answer the points Ben one by one.
First of all I said to move Ossie to the left would be to play him out of position; after a lot of waffle, you agree ? because it is a fact.
You also eventually agree with the point I made about Moyes not having a player for every position ? you agree because its a fact
You then tell me the "majority disagree with me" ? what about?? Tell me.
And finally you say I "claim" to watch every match - well that's also a fact.
It's also the reason why I know you guys are arguing about something you don't know about. We ? the away fans ? sat to the left of the goal Everton attacked in the first half on Saturday. Anyone present will tell you Bily did not come within a country mile of us ? which kinda knocks your claim that he was playing "left winger" into touch.
Having an argument contrary to yours does not constitute "attacking people for the hell of it". If you just want the opinion of one side and want to ignore the facts there`s not a lot I can do about that..
Only point out to me which of my points you disagree with instead of making remarks about what I "claim".
First of all I said to move Ossie to the left would be to play him out of position; after a lot of waffle, you agree ? because it is a fact.
You also eventually agree with the point I made about Moyes not having a player for every position ? you agree because its a fact
You then tell me the "majority disagree with me" ? what about?? Tell me.
And finally you say I "claim" to watch every match - well that's also a fact.
It's also the reason why I know you guys are arguing about something you don't know about. We ? the away fans ? sat to the left of the goal Everton attacked in the first half on Saturday. Anyone present will tell you Bily did not come within a country mile of us ? which kinda knocks your claim that he was playing "left winger" into touch.
Having an argument contrary to yours does not constitute "attacking people for the hell of it". If you just want the opinion of one side and want to ignore the facts there`s not a lot I can do about that..
Only point out to me which of my points you disagree with instead of making remarks about what I "claim".
Yes, but he didn't play in the middle, didn't he though, Dave? He coincidentally played on the right when Coleman got injured. That's not a claim... that's a fact.
There's no facts I'm ignoring by the way?
And I'm thinking about it because of previous posts. You're always arguing with other people on here, again co-incidence?
And fair enough to the claim of you watching the matches, I do apologise.
But what I'm getting at is the Bily thing? You still haven't got at my main point is he should be playing in the middle. Even if playing Osman out of position, because he's far more effective there than Billy.
There's no facts I'm ignoring by the way?
And I'm thinking about it because of previous posts. You're always arguing with other people on here, again co-incidence?
And fair enough to the claim of you watching the matches, I do apologise.
But what I'm getting at is the Bily thing? You still haven't got at my main point is he should be playing in the middle. Even if playing Osman out of position, because he's far more effective there than Billy.
Oh I know you are thinking of previous posts Ben. I also know that by challenging criticism of Moyes on this site I sometimes find myself in a very small minority. Would you rarther I sat and nodded in agreement?
Anyway you said the majority disagree with me on this thread. I merely asked you on what?
You still haven't answered.
Anyway you said the majority disagree with me on this thread. I merely asked you on what?
You still haven't answered.
Mark Doyle #50:
I don't need my eyes testing, I've watched Fellaini every week; yes he has got flair, but no pace and cannot tackle, hence his two bad injuries. And, in my opinion, he wanders out of position, which leaves a gaping hole in front of the defenders. It's no coincidence that Distin and Jags are playing well, with Neville in front of them.
I don't need my eyes testing, I've watched Fellaini every week; yes he has got flair, but no pace and cannot tackle, hence his two bad injuries. And, in my opinion, he wanders out of position, which leaves a gaping hole in front of the defenders. It's no coincidence that Distin and Jags are playing well, with Neville in front of them.
Dave, if Moyes wanted a winger, then why didn't he go out and buy a winger, instead of Bily, who is clearly not a winger, and never was for his last club, or country?
Surley for the money we paid, Moyes must have watched him, or had him watched numerous times.
Surley for the money we paid, Moyes must have watched him, or had him watched numerous times.
"We can ill afford to offload players that have demonstrated they can play in the team. In this case Bily simply has to stay!.."
Err, isn't that the point? After two seasons Bily has still not 'demonstrated' that he can play in this team, or even this league. He's basically been a passenger since he came to the club. Playing him in the centre is not going to miraculously transform him into a world beater all of a sudden. Sometimes you simply have to accept it didn't work out, and cut your losses while you still can.
Err, isn't that the point? After two seasons Bily has still not 'demonstrated' that he can play in this team, or even this league. He's basically been a passenger since he came to the club. Playing him in the centre is not going to miraculously transform him into a world beater all of a sudden. Sometimes you simply have to accept it didn't work out, and cut your losses while you still can.
Brian, why do you think he wanted a left winger? We had Pienaar at the time and we were offering him a terrific deal ? unfortunately, not terrific enough...
In fact, Pienaar was voted Player of the Season playing on the the left and again played there this season, right up until he left in the January window.
Of course Moyes had Bily watched and he was brilliant, still is when given time and space, but he is denied that more often than not in this league; IMO that's why we only ever see flashes from him.
In fact, Pienaar was voted Player of the Season playing on the the left and again played there this season, right up until he left in the January window.
Of course Moyes had Bily watched and he was brilliant, still is when given time and space, but he is denied that more often than not in this league; IMO that's why we only ever see flashes from him.
Dave, when Moyes watched Bily, he would have seen him playing behind the striker, and not as a winger for his last club.
What I can't understand is, why you would pay a fair wack of cash on a player who has impressed you playing in a certain role, only then not to play him in that role, that he has impressed you in, even though Moyes has had plenty of opportunities to have played him in that position?
What I can't understand is, why you would pay a fair wack of cash on a player who has impressed you playing in a certain role, only then not to play him in that role, that he has impressed you in, even though Moyes has had plenty of opportunities to have played him in that position?
I've only just read this whole thread but for what it's worth, I completely agree with Dave Wilson.
Brian ? he has... and Bily has failed to impress each time. You want to make it a no-win situation for Moyes: you ignore the fact that Bily has had opportunities elsewhere and if Moyes had dropped Cahill from that position in the first part of the season, or Ossie in the second, all hell would break loose and Moyes would be slaughtered for dropping a man in form in favour of a guy who doesnt understand the concept of competition.
We seem to have square pegs for round holes in a few positions but I maintain, no matter where you play, when you get the ball, you have to do something useful with it. When you have to mark someone, you mark them closely and when you tackle you do it cleanly and win the ball.
We have players who far too often cannot follow these criteria: Fellaini, Arteta, Osman, Bily, Anichebe and Cahill do not have a turn of speed and that is why we have been struggling as a team to compete because the only way to compensate for that is to be a better tackling and passing side, which we are not.
Dave -
I wish I would have checked in quicker to see your post. But life dictates other responsibilities....
I completely take your point on Osman. He's been fantastic in the middle. Currently with the squad we have, playing Bily in the middle would most likely see Osman out wide.
But that does not mean that Bily should be playing out wide as his default position under "normal" circumstances. And frankly that's been his slotted position by Moyes.
Look, I don't have all the answers. All I am saying is that Bily would play best behind the striker(s) and Osman is most effective in the middle. That does not equate to slating Moyes for playing guys out of position.
But... he has. All season long. And that is a very valid and factual criticism of our Manager. A Manager I like, but whom frustrates me often.
I do not call for Moyes's removal. But I do criticize him when he starts Osman out wide on the wing for the season opener, and many, many times after that, when we have a near fully fit side and numerous other line-up options.
That's it. And again I'd argue you can't over complicate it. It's just so damn obvious.
If you'd like the littany of things I think Moyes has done superbly I'll be more than happy to relate. But it's a long list. As are his shortcomings. But I'll take him as Manager and I like him as Manager ? cliffnoted finish....
Finally, don't say I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. You're more than intelligent enough to figure this out and realize what I'm saying makes sense.
I wish I would have checked in quicker to see your post. But life dictates other responsibilities....
I completely take your point on Osman. He's been fantastic in the middle. Currently with the squad we have, playing Bily in the middle would most likely see Osman out wide.
But that does not mean that Bily should be playing out wide as his default position under "normal" circumstances. And frankly that's been his slotted position by Moyes.
Look, I don't have all the answers. All I am saying is that Bily would play best behind the striker(s) and Osman is most effective in the middle. That does not equate to slating Moyes for playing guys out of position.
But... he has. All season long. And that is a very valid and factual criticism of our Manager. A Manager I like, but whom frustrates me often.
I do not call for Moyes's removal. But I do criticize him when he starts Osman out wide on the wing for the season opener, and many, many times after that, when we have a near fully fit side and numerous other line-up options.
That's it. And again I'd argue you can't over complicate it. It's just so damn obvious.
If you'd like the littany of things I think Moyes has done superbly I'll be more than happy to relate. But it's a long list. As are his shortcomings. But I'll take him as Manager and I like him as Manager ? cliffnoted finish....
Finally, don't say I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. You're more than intelligent enough to figure this out and realize what I'm saying makes sense.
I skipped a few replies so someone may have said this, but didn't Sheedy play on the left, have no pace and not take people on? You don't need to be a flying pacy winger to be effective in a wide position.
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1 Posted 10/04/2011 at 15:19:14
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Must have confidence, or he would never have gone for his shot.
My view is that he should play in his correct position, in the middle just behind the forward/forwards and let him do his stuff.
He certainly isn't shit