The Mail Bag
Euro qualification
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With Man City's victory in the FA Cup semi-final, I'm wondering what that might do to qualification for the Europa League.
If City win the cup but are pipped to fourth by Spurs, do they take the Europa place for the Cup or for league placing? If it's the latter, then the cup runners up will take the extra place. If it's the former, as I suspect it is, then the Europa spot for league placing will move down to sixth.
This gives us, firstly, an extra incentive to keep up our fine run against City, and secondly, a real reason to hunt down Liverpool. Have I got this right?
Ben Patchesa, Posted 17/04/2011 at 09:01:19
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We won't get into 6th anyway so don't torture yourself about it. Especially when the shite get a penalty in the 11th minute of added time and it was supposed to be only 8...
Ben, Tony is right, we will not finish 6th, we are at Man U next week, and Liverpool will always get 90th minute, 95 minute, 102 minute penaltys. Besides whats the point of us being in Europe? we just get embarrassed verytime we play a team people have heard of, we are not ready for more thrashings from the likes of Benifica. The current (current over many years) Everton model is just not prepared for the extra games, and Moyes struggles with 2 legs, Sporting proved this.
Joe - weren't you saying for weeks that with Moyes still manager we'd be relegated?
Keep saying we wont make Europe please.
Keep saying we wont make Europe please.
It doesnt matter where WE finish......if the RS finish in 8th, 9th or 4th from bottom there will be some obscure rule found somewhere that allows them to enter Europe.
I'd prefer a crack at trying to get 4th again (wishful thinking perhaps) but rather pissing about with the europa league which:
A - Doesn't generate any significant revenue unlike the CL group stages and beyond.
B. We have to play countless games which has an affect on our league form.
C. We don't have the resources for a greater squad in terms of quality and numbers to compete on all four competitions.
A - Doesn't generate any significant revenue unlike the CL group stages and beyond.
B. We have to play countless games which has an affect on our league form.
C. We don't have the resources for a greater squad in terms of quality and numbers to compete on all four competitions.
Kunai # 6, spot on, but let's finish 6th, qualify for the Europa league, then turn round to eufa, and say sorry we won't be playing in your shit second rate competition next season, because,
it's far far too long and boring,
and you made rules up for the R/S a few years ago that meant we ended up playing Villareal in the qualifiying stage!!
oh and Sepp Blatter and his cronies are a bunch of bent wankers...
We'll come back the season after next when we have finished 3rd, after not playing in your half a season (19 games) boreathon called the europa league, and after careful consideration , play in your other t.v show.. the champions league, which is also boring(unless your in it!) until it reaches the quarter final stage.
it's far far too long and boring,
and you made rules up for the R/S a few years ago that meant we ended up playing Villareal in the qualifiying stage!!
oh and Sepp Blatter and his cronies are a bunch of bent wankers...
We'll come back the season after next when we have finished 3rd, after not playing in your half a season (19 games) boreathon called the europa league, and after careful consideration , play in your other t.v show.. the champions league, which is also boring(unless your in it!) until it reaches the quarter final stage.
Don's right: I see that there are now question marks over Birmingham City's suitability for qualification based, I think, on their finances.
Here's 10 quid right now, saying that if the RS are the next in line for a Euro-berth, then Brum will be found wanting in the cash department and will be bombed out in favour of our dear neighbours.
As for Kunal, all of those points are right but it is still better in terms of profile and status to be playing in Europe than not.
The only reason for not wanting to qualify would be to avoid having to see Kenwright's smug face everywhere again.
(Kenwright out - even though it's a bit off-topic)
Here's 10 quid right now, saying that if the RS are the next in line for a Euro-berth, then Brum will be found wanting in the cash department and will be bombed out in favour of our dear neighbours.
As for Kunal, all of those points are right but it is still better in terms of profile and status to be playing in Europe than not.
The only reason for not wanting to qualify would be to avoid having to see Kenwright's smug face everywhere again.
(Kenwright out - even though it's a bit off-topic)
I think it's rubbish to say our league form suffers when we are in Europe. Our best European campaign under Moyes was 2007/08. We finished 5th and got to a League Cup semi final.
If you have self belief and get into the winning habit then you play the extra games and win.
If you have self belief and get into the winning habit then you play the extra games and win.
I'm surprised at the degree of negativity about 1) finishing as high as possible 2) finishing above Liverpool and 3) having an extra chance of winning a trophy (I know the format and competition are different but is the ECWC win of 85 regarded so lightly in our history?)
The prize money and prestige of finishing higher and playing on a European stage, modest as these may be compared to the Champion's leagure, are essential to us keeping our best players / recruiting new players.
What would players reading this site think of the fact that a proportion of their fanbase will them not to the greatest success possible at any particular time? If I were one of them, I'd find it seriously difficult to give 100% for the remaining games of the season.
And I'd always rather be embarrassed by a team people have heard of than swell with pride at beating a team of unknown no-hopers.
The prize money and prestige of finishing higher and playing on a European stage, modest as these may be compared to the Champion's leagure, are essential to us keeping our best players / recruiting new players.
What would players reading this site think of the fact that a proportion of their fanbase will them not to the greatest success possible at any particular time? If I were one of them, I'd find it seriously difficult to give 100% for the remaining games of the season.
And I'd always rather be embarrassed by a team people have heard of than swell with pride at beating a team of unknown no-hopers.
I thought the cup winners euro spot had stopped being passed to the runner-up by default a few years ago & now reverts to the league instead. If so then the only way that 6th place won't qualify for europe is if Stoke City finally win the Cup. Incidentally, Stoke City are the only Founder Members of the League never to have won either the Cup or League, as they've only ever won the League Cup.
I can't believe some people think that Europe could be abad thing. It's probably the best way for our club to keep hold of players like Fallaini and add an incentive for the decent free agents we can just about afford at the end of the season.
Even if we use it to blood youngsters and give them competitive experience it would only be a good thing.
I am doubtful it will happen, as even if we overtake the Red Shite, an achievement in its self you can see Stoke beating Man City to piss on our bonfire!
Even if we use it to blood youngsters and give them competitive experience it would only be a good thing.
I am doubtful it will happen, as even if we overtake the Red Shite, an achievement in its self you can see Stoke beating Man City to piss on our bonfire!
Dennis, runners up in the FA Cup can get a place - its only the League Cup that no longer offers a place to the runner up.
So City finish 5th - I can see that happening. In fact, I think it will happen.
City win the cup - big favourites.
Us overtaking the shite - it's the big outsider in the treble. They have very kind fixtures compared to us and we've already shown that when there's actually something depending on the result, we clam up. So I fully expect us to resort to being shite again until this opportunity has passed.
So City finish 5th - I can see that happening. In fact, I think it will happen.
City win the cup - big favourites.
Us overtaking the shite - it's the big outsider in the treble. They have very kind fixtures compared to us and we've already shown that when there's actually something depending on the result, we clam up. So I fully expect us to resort to being shite again until this opportunity has passed.
I think I have just diagnosed myself with bipolar disorder!
Reading the above comments I find myself alternately agreeing with everyone!
I watched the Arsenal v RS game last night, and I don't see the scum dropping many points from now on. (that penalty was a load of shit but.) So even if we win everything from here on out, I can just see us being pipped to it by those pricks.
Obviously best of luck to us, hope we win everything, qualify for Europa, win that too etc etc. But I also understand some peoples reservations due to our squad depth (or lack of) and the fact that Europa is a shit comp anyway.
I am the ultimate fence sitter for this one
Reading the above comments I find myself alternately agreeing with everyone!
I watched the Arsenal v RS game last night, and I don't see the scum dropping many points from now on. (that penalty was a load of shit but.) So even if we win everything from here on out, I can just see us being pipped to it by those pricks.
Obviously best of luck to us, hope we win everything, qualify for Europa, win that too etc etc. But I also understand some peoples reservations due to our squad depth (or lack of) and the fact that Europa is a shit comp anyway.
I am the ultimate fence sitter for this one
Kunal, it's always best to be in Europa as it affects our co-efficient for when we really do qualify for CL.
Getting Dot-Cotton with your mates in Europe is much, much better than doing it away at Stoke or Villa.
I'd never turn down the chance of a few european away days, regardless of whether were playing an Albania's posties 11.
I'd never turn down the chance of a few european away days, regardless of whether were playing an Albania's posties 11.
Brian (4) ? No, I never said that. With Moyes in charge we won't go down, but with Moyes in charge we won't win anything either, regardless of funds. (Just my opinion, of course.)
Eric is spot-on: being in the Europa League (even though it is a shit competition) will benefit us in the long run when we qualify for the Champions League.
The money is crap and the extra games we could do without but it's a chance to compete in Europe and get extra exposure World Wide. This will help us keep our best players and will also attract better players abroad and maybe, just maybe a takeover bid??? Oh, I forgot... we're not for sale, are we!!
On the whole, being in Europe ? whether it be the Europa or Champions League ? can only be of benefit to us if we have any ambition.
The money is crap and the extra games we could do without but it's a chance to compete in Europe and get extra exposure World Wide. This will help us keep our best players and will also attract better players abroad and maybe, just maybe a takeover bid??? Oh, I forgot... we're not for sale, are we!!
On the whole, being in Europe ? whether it be the Europa or Champions League ? can only be of benefit to us if we have any ambition.
The difficulty is that we need City to drop points and Spurs to pick up points and, if you look at their two run-ins, I think that looks tough!
Alongside this we need to have a stronger run-in than Liverfool, so we are grasping at straws.
It would be typical of Everton under Moyes to have a season of almost...
We almost won the cup in 2009, almost got through to the CL proper in 2005, almost finished in CL places on 3 occassions and almost got into Europe despite a poor start last season.
Alongside this we need to have a stronger run-in than Liverfool, so we are grasping at straws.
It would be typical of Everton under Moyes to have a season of almost...
We almost won the cup in 2009, almost got through to the CL proper in 2005, almost finished in CL places on 3 occassions and almost got into Europe despite a poor start last season.
They will change the rules again for the RS just like this year when Pompey should of been in the Europa League, and who can forget when they were changed after they won a penalty competition.
"I know the format and competition are different but is the ECWC win of 85 regarded so lightly in our history?"
The difference is that you actually had to be winner to enter the European Cup Winners Cup, the clue is in the name....unlike the Champions League where a 4th placed side won it but finished outside of the qualifying places and the rules were changed to allow them back in again.
The ECWC was a prestige trophy, not like the Europa where you could finish 6/7 in your league and win it, or even get knocked out of another trophy and compete again for a second bite of the cherry, even though the other teams have played 3 more games along the way
The difference is that you actually had to be winner to enter the European Cup Winners Cup, the clue is in the name....unlike the Champions League where a 4th placed side won it but finished outside of the qualifying places and the rules were changed to allow them back in again.
The ECWC was a prestige trophy, not like the Europa where you could finish 6/7 in your league and win it, or even get knocked out of another trophy and compete again for a second bite of the cherry, even though the other teams have played 3 more games along the way
You've all made good points and here's 2 more:
Firstly... f we really are "for sale, 24/7" then it can only make us a more attractive proposition if we are playing in Europe regularly.
Secondly... potential buyers are looking to buy a 'Brand' with a large fanbase. We seriously need to increase our fanbase / social network base. Playing in Europe helps to do that for you.
Just to illustrate what I?m talking about,
I have just lifted the latest figures from
Facebook.
Sad to say, but not hard to figure out why,
but the shite have more than 5 million more
fans than us on Facebook.
Even Spurs and City have more than 3 times as many Facebook fans than us.
Liverpool 5,244,746 fans
Tottenham 556,132 fans
Man City 547,957 fans
Aston Villa 161,678 fans
EVERTON 143,843 fans
Newcastle 141,758 fans
So... go on to the Facebook website and
visit the Official Everton Facebook page,
and click the ?LIKE? Everton button.
I have just lifted the latest figures from
Facebook.
Sad to say, but not hard to figure out why,
but the shite have more than 5 million more
fans than us on Facebook.
Even Spurs and City have more than 3 times as many Facebook fans than us.
Liverpool 5,244,746 fans
Tottenham 556,132 fans
Man City 547,957 fans
Aston Villa 161,678 fans
EVERTON 143,843 fans
Newcastle 141,758 fans
So... go on to the Facebook website and
visit the Official Everton Facebook page,
and click the ?LIKE? Everton button.
Ernie, I didn't think the League Cup runners-up ever got a European place but the FA Cup runners-up could, so if a change has occured it would only be that the same now applies to the FA Cup runners-up. Maybe that change never happened, but it was definitely mooted a few seasons back.
However, I suspect that even if we overtake RS then Stoke City will go & win the Cup anyway!
Ben.
Don't listen to all the negative old grizzlies on here. We should ALWAYS be aiming to finish as high as possible, which this season realistically is 6th.
Europe would be a very nice bonus. Whilst I agree it adds a lot of extra games, the chances of keeping our best players are definitely better if we are in European competrition.
Finishing above Liverpool is surely what every Evertonian would want.
And as for Facebook ? who cares?
Don't listen to all the negative old grizzlies on here. We should ALWAYS be aiming to finish as high as possible, which this season realistically is 6th.
Europe would be a very nice bonus. Whilst I agree it adds a lot of extra games, the chances of keeping our best players are definitely better if we are in European competrition.
Finishing above Liverpool is surely what every Evertonian would want.
And as for Facebook ? who cares?
If we finish above the shite, that would be nice. If we finish above the shite, make it to Europe, and they don't, that would be absolutely amazing.
Tony X, we probably have a few real fans that don't use facebook (me for starters) as oppopsed to millions of RS glory hunters around the world.
I was just in Viet Nam and met my first local that supports Everton, so we are being noticed in outside world!.
I was just in Viet Nam and met my first local that supports Everton, so we are being noticed in outside world!.
Seems that if Manchester City win the FA Cup and finish 5th then the other Europa League place goes to the 6th place team, not the FA Cup Runners Up!
However, if City win the FA Cup and finish in the top 4 then they get a Champions League place and the FA Cup Runners Up get the Europa League place!
'Arry is already kicking up a stink because the Premier League game between Man City and Stoke has now been re-arranged for 18th May, after the FA Cup result is known. Therefore, if Man City win the FA Cup, then a victory for Man City would be the best result for both sides but could mean Spurs missing out on the Champions League.
So far there seems to be silence from Liverpool so perhaps they've already secured a rule change and an extra place for themselves ? like they did in 2005!
If Everton did have a slim chance of getting into the Europa League, its even slimmer now. (Thats even if we really want to even get into the blasted thing!)
I heard on the radio today that a bit of a weird occurrence has been thrown up with Man City and Stoke getting to the FA Cup final. Both of them were due to play that day in the league anyway, so that league game has now been pushed back till the Tuesday.
So if Man City win the cup, Stoke will qualify for Europe only if Man City finish fourth or higher.
Which throws up the prospect of it being in Stokes interest to lose the league game in order to help City to get that all important 4th place and get themselves into Europe!!
I dont know if anything like that has happened before?!?
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1 Posted 17/04/2011 at 17:25:52
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"The top four Premier League teams will qualify for the Champions League - the top three go straight into the group stages, with the fourth-placed team in the qualifying rounds.
The first team to book their place in Europe were Carling Cup winners Birmingham City, who will play in the Europa League, insisting they will have "no problem" complying with Uefa's financial criteria, which clubs must meet to allow them to play in Europe.
English clubs have three places in the Europa League - for the FA Cup winners, the Carling Cup winners and the fifth-placed team in the Premier League.
If Manchester City win the FA Cup while finishing in the top four of the Premier League, the losing finalists - Bolton or Stoke - will enter the Europa League.
However, if City win the Cup but finish outside the top four, they will enter the Europa League along with the sixth-placed team.
The bottom three teams will be relegated to the Championship - with the battle likely to go right to the wire. "