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High League Place = More Money?

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Although the recent good form is great to see after a season which promised more, if Everton exceed expectations from January when players were loaned out in case of a low league place fear, will that mean that Moyes will have a transfer budget in the summer?

Or does it matter not where they finish: 5th, 6th or 17th ? there will be no money?

Surely Moyes must see the incentive for a high league place to get him something of a transfer budget?

Jamie  Carroll, Co Louth     Posted 17/04/2011 at 21:47:34

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Tim Spring
1   Posted 18/04/2011 at 14:26:43

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The doom-and-gloom merchants would probably say that, wherever we finish this season, all Premier League prize money will go on financing our ever increasing debt!
Ped Pearl
2   Posted 18/04/2011 at 14:24:50

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You'd think that would be the case, Jamie, but who knows? Factor in the amount in wages saved from Yakubu and Pienaar (along with his transfer fee) and it starts to add up. We have money coming from Yobo and also perhaps Yak and Vaughan (if their loan clubs take up options), and that's before the sale of one of our most valuable assets... perhaps Rodwell or Heitinga.

How much goes to the debt and how much Moyes gets to strengthen our small squad is anyone's guess.

Trevor Lynes
3   Posted 18/04/2011 at 14:41:48

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Tim, it's not the doom-and-gloom merchants who cry poverty... it's DM and the board who tell us we have no money for players. It's us dumb bastards who just sit back and believe them!!

The one fact that comes out of all the 'smokescreen' bunkum we are expected to believe. DM has a completely no-lose position: he cannot be blamed for any defeats because he has no financial back-up... and, if we do well and finish above most sides, then he is seen as a messiah!! Fishes and bread come to mind!!

Anthony Hughes
4   Posted 18/04/2011 at 14:48:52

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For the past few seasons, any cash we've had to spend has come from players leaving. Unless we bring a good chunk of money in from sales this summer, then we're looking at a quiet time in the transfer market. Of course finishing as high in the table as possible is necessary but it won't make a significant change to Moyes's transfer budget.
Sam Morrison
5   Posted 18/04/2011 at 14:57:12

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As far as I recall, it's something like a eight hundred thousand pounds for each position ? so £800k for last and twenty times that, or £16M for first.
Shaun Brennan
6   Posted 18/04/2011 at 15:11:53

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Tim Spring, what are you trying to suggest? That we do infact have money in the pot?
Jay Harris
7   Posted 18/04/2011 at 15:10:00

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Well said, Trevor. A few decent results do not disguise the appalling financial mismanagement of EFC since Kenwright took over.

Unless we reinvest in new players, we will continue to fall behind Spurs, Man City and the RS and even Villa if they get a decent manager.

So those who continue to be happy with mid-table can continue to suffer a mixed season of results with nothing to show for it except Premier League survival.

I personally see us as a top 4 club that is currently lost at sea not knowing which direction to go ? which is unacceptable for a club with our pedigree.
Dave Wilson
8   Posted 18/04/2011 at 15:51:17

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Another season when the place money Everton recieve under Moyes`s management actually exceeds the amount of money they make available for him to spend.

It also exceeds the amount of money they pay him to do the job.
David Parks
9   Posted 18/04/2011 at 16:30:42

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Back in January, the club stated that their budget for this year was to finish 7th. I assume the reason we loaned so many players out was because this seemed unachievable at the time. We may therefore have a Bosman up our sleeves such as Bothroyd or Mussi (large sign-on fee).
Matt Traynor
10   Posted 18/04/2011 at 16:49:40

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Sam #4, there are essentially 3 components to the TV revenue deal under the current contract:

a) A flat sum paid to all clubs equally, in August and September;
b) Appearance fees for games selected for "live" broadcast;
c) The League Placement prize money you refer to.

So yes, the higher league placing does yield more money... but, in the overall scheme of things, the quantum is not so significant.

Sam Morrison
11   Posted 18/04/2011 at 17:00:57

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Thanks for the clarification, Matt. I guess what I was noting was that is fifth IS better than sixth, but it's even, er, 'betterer', than seventeenth.

Tony J Williams
12   Posted 18/04/2011 at 17:01:41

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I like your optimism Jay but we are nowhere near a top 4 side and haven't been for well over a decade, maybe two. (One year out of twenty odd doesn't count)
Eugene Ruane
13   Posted 18/04/2011 at 17:07:08

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Because of my opinions on various Everton issues, I have, over the years, been catagorised under the following banners.

Part of the 'anti-Moyes brigade' (and a few other 'brigades' that...I forget).

A member of the 'Kenwright haters' (they came in search of paradi....oh wait that's Bounty).

And the 'Moyes haters'.

Now it seems (Tim Spring-1) because of my views, I'm also a 'doom and gloom MERCHANT'.

Don't get me wrong, I have NO problem with the sentiments at all (particularly as I see them as the opinions of the..um..'less illuminated') but aren't these little Daily Mail-style phrases in need of..erm..'freshening up'?

I'm NOT asking for ANYONE to change their opinion, just...express them a little more creatively.

I mean why ALWAYS a brigade?

Why not a battalion or a legion?

How about the 'Anti-Moyes corps'?

Or "the division division"

Or maybe use regiment or Infantry or just....something.....fucking........new.
Sam Morrison
14   Posted 18/04/2011 at 17:37:07

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Eugene, get out of the pro-resignation-cartel will you and have something double negative to say for once.
James Hollister
15   Posted 18/04/2011 at 17:29:22

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1 The Yak - always only plays one season where ever he goes...did the same at Midds, did the same with us, and is doing the same at Leicester. It isn't down to Injury, it's down to over eating and trying to milk big money for doing fuck all. He'll play for the first season, then become the fat useless player we all know. Perhaps that injury was a blessing in disguise, coz the bloke would never have come back to what he was. He'll burn Leicester. 11 m wasted.

2 Fellaini - £11M (?15M) can't play a full season (this season 20 matches, last 21 matches), plays only a handful of really good matches, the rest average at best. Not worth ?15M. Don't see how any one could proclaim he is.. the fact is he will never play a full season anywhere pretty self evident since it got to the premier league.

3 Bily - needs to go back to Russia, not good enough for the premier league and a shocking price paid for him 11 m

This summer, we need to sell all 3 and be done with them, and get that other fraudster Anichebe on the transfer list too!

Yak ? £2/3M max, can't see how Leicester would pay more for him.

Fellaini ? sell to the biggest paying fool £15/20M to Chelsea or Man Utd... in the knowledge he won't last a full season ? is good business.

Right there, without selling Rodwell, is at least £25/30M, even with money take off for loans, he still as around £10/15M for replacements..not as if we'll truly miss any of those players being sold (18 games a season without a Fella is hardly missing him, since he only really performs well in a handful of matches)

Bily ? £5/6M to any Russian or European teams interested... adjust price for the biggest teams.

Eugene Ruane
16   Posted 18/04/2011 at 18:24:43

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Sam Morrison (12) - NOW we're talking turkey!

LOVE IT!!!



Andy Crooks
17   Posted 18/04/2011 at 18:22:27

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James, I think I would concur with most of your views. However, on Bily I disagree. I believe he is a quality player, our REAL secret weapon. Given an extended run in the side I believe he will show that Arsenal got the wrong man with Arshavin. Bily is the new Osman. (I can't believe I just said that, but after the weekend I hope you know what I mean)
Liam Reilly
18   Posted 18/04/2011 at 18:30:04

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James #13
Can't agree your assessment of Fellaini. He's a different class to most of the first team and would flourish in a richly assembled side.

Come this summer expect several bids for him and Rodwell, but nice to hear both of them expressing how happy they are at the club.
Dennis Stevens
19   Posted 18/04/2011 at 18:23:20

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Where does all the money go? Most of Moyes' transfer activity is self financed via player sales, & before him Smith pretty well recouped all the money he spent on transfers ; wages consume a sizeable proportion of income but don't seem out of kilter with the figures one reads for other premier clubs. So, is it all swallowed up by debt & what are "other operating costs"?
Gerry Quinn
20   Posted 18/04/2011 at 20:18:30

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James #13

For once and for all - get it into your head that we CANNOT afford to get rid of Anichebe - why ever would we waste our own hard-earned cash paying some club to take him from us?
Andrew James
21   Posted 18/04/2011 at 20:57:59

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Eugene ? I am probably part of the David Moyes Preservation Society.

I agree with Andy Crooks. I think we should persevere with Bily. Malouda and Nani are both players who looked hopeless in their first couple of seasons (hell even Ronaldo flattered to deceive early on at Old Trafford) but have come good over time. Bily scored his way out of trouble last season yet this one I find it hard to criticize him when he's not had enough game time or been played in the right position.

In general, I'd rather we kept him than took a loss on him. Given that the departure of a certain Mikel Arteta is getting closer and closer (either because he decides he wants a big pay day or because of his age) so we need creative players on stand by. Gueye might be one but Bily is further down that road.
Trevor Lynes
22   Posted 18/04/2011 at 21:40:57

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I still for the life of me cannot understand how we were active in the transfer market up until quite recently and now it seems to be accepted by everyone that we cannot continue to be active. We constantly finish higher than most of the other clubs in the premier, yet they are much more active in bringing in fresh players and we are like old mother Hubbard... WHY???

We have one of the smallest squads with probably the youngest bench in the football league...we loan out players by the cart load and transfer assets (players) for buttons or lose them by mismanagement (Gosling)...

Suddenly its forgotten that Peanuts was our best player during Arteta's prolonged absence... now, luckily, Ozzie has stepped into the breach and saved the board and DM a lot of embarrassment.

Every place in the league is worth money and the higher we finish the more we earn so how is it possible that our BLIND board can allow our assets to be frittered away???

It's pure luck that Ossie regained his form in the nick of time and Baines has got through a season without a big injury... because we have no cover for him and never have since Lescott left. We are like Blondin treading a tight rope and BK must be linked to the devil to be able to get away with total mismanagement annually.

I reckon that a lot of our fans must be amazed at how the team has turned the season around without so many established first teamers being available... EFC moves in mysterious ways!!!!

Tony J Williams
23   Posted 18/04/2011 at 21:59:50

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Fellaini ? £11M (?15M) can't play a full season... Do you think that may have something to do with the two horrendous tackles that fecked his ankle up?
Jay Harris
24   Posted 18/04/2011 at 22:01:27

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Tony #10,
EFC were one of the "big 5" who set up the Premier league in 1990 led by Phil Carter. Just because we havent won the league (or looked like since) does not take away our historic record of the 4th most successful team in history.

Even Liverpool have not won the Premier League but it does not stop them beng talked about as "one of the biggest clubs in the world".

My statement wasnt intended to be one of optimism more one of aspiration and a statement of intent that should be emanating from the club.
Steve Harris
25   Posted 18/04/2011 at 22:21:11

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I just can't stomach the thought of yet another summer of disappointment. So...

This year I will endeavour not to get incredibly excited when we are linked with a whole host of players who would be fantastic signings.

I promise not to believe a single word that the chairman, owner or chief exec utter about exciting signings, or the annual 'every spare penny goes to the manager'.

And finally, i won't be disappointed when we sell our family jewels to finance our debt and Moyes is left with a week to spend a treasure chest of £7M.

Yeah right!

Oh and I'll be made up that Kenwright has no news on selling the club and is here for the foreseeable future.

Up the Blues!!
Matt Bone
26   Posted 18/04/2011 at 23:11:39

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David #7

This was the first I 'd heard of a potential new signing called Mussi so i googles him and discovered who you must have meant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Mussi. He fits the mould for a Moyes purchase ;-0
David Hallwood
27   Posted 19/04/2011 at 00:33:49

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Andy#15 & Andrew#19, the trouble with Bily is that we're oversubscribed in that area, and light on wide players and given our finances one of them will have to be sacrificed.

I agree that Bily would look a different player in the Cahill role, but so does Osman, and he will always be behind Ossie & Cahill.
James Flynn
28   Posted 19/04/2011 at 01:40:25

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Eugene (11) - I'd add you're a good, and sometimes hilarious, ToffeeWeb contributor. You're just a multi-faceted guy, brother. You can handle it.
Eric Myles
29   Posted 19/04/2011 at 03:24:12

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James, isn't 'multi-faceted' just a polite way of saying two-faced? :-)
Mark Stone
30   Posted 19/04/2011 at 06:47:13

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I don't think you have to be a doom and gloom mongerer to know that Everton are not exactly flush, Tim. Trevor - are you actually suggesting that David Moyes really has a multi million pound budget - that he chooses not to use so that he doesn;t look bad if results don't go our way.

Hmmmmm
Guy Wilkinson
31   Posted 19/04/2011 at 07:47:32

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Tim @1. The doom and gloom merchants would be right. Moyes and Alex Ferguson - 2 good managers being starved of net spend by shit boardrooms.
David Parks
32   Posted 19/04/2011 at 10:12:14

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Matt #24 I obviously meant Guy Mousssi, but I think Moyes could well fancy your scouting there. Utility defender on the coaching staff??!
Alan Clarke
33   Posted 19/04/2011 at 11:10:08

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As a fellow unhappiness shop proprieter (doom and gloom merchant?), I am very very fearful of what will happen this summer. I will try and steer myself away from all things tabloid related, Sky Sports News' yellow breaking news bar and even restrict myself from Everton related websites.

Unless we qualify for the champions league, I don't think the money we make from a higher league placing will even make a dent in the debt Kenwright has run up.
Tony J Williams
34   Posted 19/04/2011 at 11:49:20

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Alan, I expect the same as the last 3 seasons....no signings unless we sell one of our jewels...... or some cheap up and coming players that no-one here has ever heard of and hope they can hack it in the hustle and bustle of the premier league
Trevor Lynes
35   Posted 19/04/2011 at 14:13:59

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Mark #30...I dont know what is going on at Goodison {boardwise} but I cannot believe we have nothing to spend at all....I have NEVER said that DM has lots of money...BUT I said that there is definitely money there to be spent but our board will not release it !! If you want to believe that we a skint then thats up to you....!!!!
Tim Spring
36   Posted 19/04/2011 at 17:27:52

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Shaun (6) I don't think we have any money, but given the situation we are in, I don't think finishing a place higher up will help us much due to it all dissapearing to finance debt anyway.

Did Kenwright say the club had budgeted to finish 7th this season? I'm hoping we have cash to spend but I very much doubt it unless we sell players.
Dave Wilson
37   Posted 19/04/2011 at 19:33:28

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Tim

Think like Kenwright mate - small time.

Of course our finish will not generate a transfer kitty, but it will pay the managers wages.

By virtually guaranteeing top half finishes, Moyes pays for himself. Thats why Kenwright loves him so
Andy Crooks
38   Posted 20/04/2011 at 19:21:09

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Dave, excellent point. I think the Moyes-Kenwright mutual loyalty needs elaborating. I'd be interested in your views. Are they BOTH self-serving?
James Flynn
39   Posted 21/04/2011 at 02:19:43

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Eric (29) - Beats me. If you think Eugene's two-faced ask him.

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