The Mail Bag
Everton wins the Super 8
Comments (47)
Can't say i have noticed this mentioned earlier so i'll give it a go.
Comparing the top8 teams in the Premier League this season and their meetings against each other, we rather surprisingly come out on top. Meaning, we are this season the best club when playing the top sides. Not bad for a mediocre squad.
1. Everton ? Home: 6-1-1; Away; 1-5-1 ? 27 points
2. Chelsea ? Home: 6-1-1; Away: 2-1-4 ? 26 points
3. Man Utd ? Home: 7-0-0; Away: 0-3-4 ? 24 points
4. Arsenal ? Home: 4-2-1; Away: 2-3-2 ? 23 points
5. Liverpool ? Home: 4-2-1; Away: 2-1-4 ? 21 points
6. Tottenham ? Home: 2-5-0; Away 3-0-4 ? 20 points
7. Man City ? Home 3-2-2; Away: 1-3-3 ? 17 points
8. Fulham ? Home 0-4-3; Away 0-1-6 ? 5 points
Well, at least we can confirm where our season got pissed away in a sea of misery...
Please Note:? Unfortunately, Paul has made some mistakes with this table, which is not correct. See the ensuing discussion, specifically #4, #6, #8, & #10 ? The Editor
Paul Olsen, Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:08:36
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Doesn't Blue Summers sound a bit like a porn star?
Good stat, however I'd say it would change if you calculated just the top 7 and drop Fulham, or it may even change if you add in Villa and count the top 9 - so just picking 8 teams to suit our stats has no real relevance. Hence why the premier league insist on calculating the top 20 teams - and we finished 7th in that league!
Still interesting though.
Still interesting though.
We lost two games away not one. Utd & Gooners.
Interesting and very decent statistics. Such a shame that there are also teams like Wigan West Ham West Brom in the division. I wonder how silimilar statistics against the middle teams or the bottom 8 would show? Not as optimistic as the stats in the article. The strangest most inconsistent premier leauge since it started!
Did we not lose twice to Arsenal and once to United? That means we had 14 games - 6 wins 5 draws and 3 losses = 23 points....
6 wins:- Liverpool, Fulham, Chelsea, City(x2), Spurs
5 draws:- Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Utd....
6 wins:- Liverpool, Fulham, Chelsea, City(x2), Spurs
5 draws:- Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Utd....
Very interesting stat.
However, I'm interested in how we managed to have 8 home games against only 7 sides? Chelsea is the same.
Does reflect how the season felt though...
However, I'm interested in how we managed to have 8 home games against only 7 sides? Chelsea is the same.
Does reflect how the season felt though...
I found I have one win too many on both Everton and Chelsea. Sorry bout that.
Doesn't however change the fact that we win ahead of Chelsea on this one.
Result would be the same also if we remove Fulham.
Doesn't however change the fact that we win ahead of Chelsea on this one.
Result would be the same also if we remove Fulham.
The most shocking stat is that the League Champions didn't beat any of the other 7 teams away from home.
And Aiden Jones is also right, seems my eyes failed me a bit today.
Still the main point stands, we did really well against top sides and it almost makes the fact that we finished seventh even more disappointing.
Still the main point stands, we did really well against top sides and it almost makes the fact that we finished seventh even more disappointing.
Michael could you edit? even blows out my title as we then finshed joint second with Chelsea.
Don't you mean joint first?
I was thinking of calculating the same thing, but you beat me to it (actually I'm pretty lazy, so I probably would never have gotten round to it). You might have made a couple mistakes, but its still pretty interesting, so thanks for the post.
Joint second -4 points on us and -3 on Chelsea
Do you have a table for our matches against the bottom 8?
Stats are meaningless in most cases and can be manipulated and produced to suit almost any argument. It's the type of thing that managers of big companies do all the time to enable them to pay big bonuses to bank managers for instance when they have lost money. Politicians do them all the time to justify their arguments against opposition parties.
The stats you do not mention are the ones that cover our woeful record against supposedly inferior opposition which indicates clearly that 7th was our TRUE position in the league.
Wow!
And here's me thinking there are 19 other teams in the Prem (beside us). Silly stats count for fuck all; we are not in Europe and didn't win jack shit.
And here's me thinking there are 19 other teams in the Prem (beside us). Silly stats count for fuck all; we are not in Europe and didn't win jack shit.
How about this for a fact, if all the teams above us had less points, we would have won the title!
Sorry for the sarcy negativity, but all the silly stats in the world will not make up for another season of shite tactics and negative hoofball. Rant over!
Dave Lynch (15), fair shout, but I don't think that the purpose of this post was to try and 'claim' a non-existent title. More to highlight the frustrating fact that while we can compete at the top end of the league, it is the performances against the lower-half teams that drag us down. It really doesn't make sense, it really is like we're doing the difficult things well but can't raise the game consistently.
Let's do a table of 7th down and see how we did in the "Futile Fourteen" super league......
Bottom line is we were 7th , we are closer to the bottom than the top , will be outspent by teams lower than us and have an aging squad....
Bottom line is we were 7th , we are closer to the bottom than the top , will be outspent by teams lower than us and have an aging squad....
We weren't good enough last year and probably won't be any better next season or any other till we get some $$$$$$$$...
This may not mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but it is food for thought for all of those people who accuse Moyes of always rolling over against the top sides.
Damn you and your logic Andrew!
Yeah I don't think the purpose of these stats were to make us look better than we are, it is to highlight the fact that we actually do decent up top, and piss poor down below. A very puzzling reality. So in regards to next season, if we can achieve similar results against the top sides, and improve on the crap results against the lower sides, logic says we will enjoy an improved league position. Mind you, there doesn't appear to be anything much 'logical' about everton...
#21 and #23 are right.
It has been frustrating to see us beat Chelsea out of the cup only to lose to Reading in the following week. Frustrating and puzzling.
Some have also pointed to the expectations some of us had before the season and said we were never really able to challenge because our players are nothing more than average at best. They said those of us hoping for 4th must have been delirious. I think these stats could point to something different.
We do have the ability some predicted ahead of the season, but abject failure against the bottom half teams. We can do it through ability, our failure this season was down to something else. Maybe i`m wrong, but i do not think these stats are useless. I believe it points to our lack of squad depth more than anything. Having a base of 14-15 good players will struggle to compete for 38 games, but with ability to summon strength to play in the big games.
If our top 8 results were along the line of Fulham who failed to beat any of the other top8, the ability issue would be more appropriate.
It has been frustrating to see us beat Chelsea out of the cup only to lose to Reading in the following week. Frustrating and puzzling.
Some have also pointed to the expectations some of us had before the season and said we were never really able to challenge because our players are nothing more than average at best. They said those of us hoping for 4th must have been delirious. I think these stats could point to something different.
We do have the ability some predicted ahead of the season, but abject failure against the bottom half teams. We can do it through ability, our failure this season was down to something else. Maybe i`m wrong, but i do not think these stats are useless. I believe it points to our lack of squad depth more than anything. Having a base of 14-15 good players will struggle to compete for 38 games, but with ability to summon strength to play in the big games.
If our top 8 results were along the line of Fulham who failed to beat any of the other top8, the ability issue would be more appropriate.
Conversely... lots of teams from leagues below ours consistently overturn the odds against Premier League teams in cup-ties. They raise their game for a one off and so do we!!! Thats why teams like Reading and even Shrewsbury have beaten top sides and I can well remember lowly Wrexham beating Arsenal... so what??? It's meaningless unless its continued.
We are one of the most inconsistent teams and this is nothing new!! Going back a few years, we beat a certain West Brom 6-2 and 4-0 in league games but then lost the FA Cup Final to them in the same season when Astle got the winner. I remember it well because I lost £100 on us winning within 90 minutes and that was a lot of dosh in those days.
In open games Everton can perform very well, even if this season we have given goals away which makes the job more difficult....hence the results and the performances against Blackpool and most of the better teams as they open up and attack us.
Our problem this season has been breaking down teams who park the bus, especially when they come to Goodison. Birmingham was the best example perhaps...and Bolton...two draws although we had all the possession.
Breaking down packed defences requires a particular kind of guile and pace that we didn't show enough of this year, especially as the main provider, Arteta, had such an off season. The other problem in the early part of the season was turning chances into goals and hence losing 4-1 to WBA when with better finishing it could have been 7-4 to us.
Bloody annoying innit?
Our problem this season has been breaking down teams who park the bus, especially when they come to Goodison. Birmingham was the best example perhaps...and Bolton...two draws although we had all the possession.
Breaking down packed defences requires a particular kind of guile and pace that we didn't show enough of this year, especially as the main provider, Arteta, had such an off season. The other problem in the early part of the season was turning chances into goals and hence losing 4-1 to WBA when with better finishing it could have been 7-4 to us.
Bloody annoying innit?
Spot on, Dave Roberts.
Tis a pity it was 1 point off Bolton and Wigan, 2 off West Ham and none off West Brom.
Richard #2,
Blue Summers in "Savouring Ryan's Privates", "Driving Miss Daisy Crazy", "Jurrasic Pork", "Star Whores - The Phantom Penis", "Some Lick It Hot"... The hardest working actress in tinseltown!
Paul, OP, great stats, shows when it falls in to place for us that we can compete. We just need to compete over the course of a long season.
Let's face it, it's been a topsy-turvey season for everybody. Few teams in the whole of Europe have come out with any credit. Maybe it's a world Cup hangover scenario.
Blue Summers in "Savouring Ryan's Privates", "Driving Miss Daisy Crazy", "Jurrasic Pork", "Star Whores - The Phantom Penis", "Some Lick It Hot"... The hardest working actress in tinseltown!
Paul, OP, great stats, shows when it falls in to place for us that we can compete. We just need to compete over the course of a long season.
Let's face it, it's been a topsy-turvey season for everybody. Few teams in the whole of Europe have come out with any credit. Maybe it's a world Cup hangover scenario.
And of course ? 'You've got mail... Genitalia!'
Are we just listing daft porn titles now? Great.
Desperately Seeking Semen, Angela's Anus, Free My Willy, George In Her Jungle, Scrotal Recall, Hairy Porker & the Prisoner of Ass Cabin, Hairy Porker made the Philosopher Moan, Homo Alone, Night of the Giving Head, Pokeahotass, Stuart Little Dick, Womb Raider, Itty Bitty Gang Bang (midget porn), Fisting Nemo, Edward Penishands, Beauty & the Priest, Santa Claus Is Cumming On Grannies Gown
Not that I watch that sort of shit or anything you understand. I've never watched anything more perverted than 'Playmate of the Apes'. Honest. I even switched that straight off as soon as the monkey headed lass got her baboons out.
Desperately Seeking Semen, Angela's Anus, Free My Willy, George In Her Jungle, Scrotal Recall, Hairy Porker & the Prisoner of Ass Cabin, Hairy Porker made the Philosopher Moan, Homo Alone, Night of the Giving Head, Pokeahotass, Stuart Little Dick, Womb Raider, Itty Bitty Gang Bang (midget porn), Fisting Nemo, Edward Penishands, Beauty & the Priest, Santa Claus Is Cumming On Grannies Gown
Not that I watch that sort of shit or anything you understand. I've never watched anything more perverted than 'Playmate of the Apes'. Honest. I even switched that straight off as soon as the monkey headed lass got her baboons out.
All very frustrating, especially as so many of the poor results came early in the season when we had a full squad available for the most part, which somewhat undermines the 'lack of depth' argument. Sadly, I can't help but fear next season may well be the one where our squad really might have a lack of depth.
We only lose to crappy teams
Andrew #21, whilst the original table shows we've done well against the top sides, this has not been a staple of Moyes's sides during his tenure.
So if there is any food for thought, it's how the team he's created is consistently inconsistent!
So if there is any food for thought, it's how the team he's created is consistently inconsistent!
Excellent thought provoking post. Confirmation, if ever it were needed, that last season was a missed opportunity. Those early losses against Villa and Blackburn, I cringe.
ManUre won 7 drew 4 lost 3 = 25 points
Everton won won 6 drew 5 lost 3 = 23 points
Sh*te won 6 drew 3 lost 5 = 21 points
Not bad return from top teams, in fact it was almost as good as we could hope for - I'd bite your hand off for 23 points from the same fixtures next season! e.g. 2 90+ min goals vs Manure; pulling it back vs City when we should've been buried at half time - we'll need the same good fortune again next year to match that return on 14 games.
Everton won won 6 drew 5 lost 3 = 23 points
Sh*te won 6 drew 3 lost 5 = 21 points
Not bad return from top teams, in fact it was almost as good as we could hope for - I'd bite your hand off for 23 points from the same fixtures next season! e.g. 2 90+ min goals vs Manure; pulling it back vs City when we should've been buried at half time - we'll need the same good fortune again next year to match that return on 14 games.
If only we'd done better against the so called 'lesser' teams, we'd have won the league.
Mind you, if my sister had balls she'd be my brother.
We are one of the lesser teams by the way.
Mind you, if my sister had balls she'd be my brother.
We are one of the lesser teams by the way.
What this shows is just how frustrating it is supporting our beloved Everton at the moment.
As pleasing as it was to get the wins over Citeh, Chelsea and the RS, it was absolutely gut wrenching to the same magnitude watching us at home against West Brom and Newcastle ? absolutely appalling performances.
And the one that really gets me pissed off every season is when we come back from Villa Park without the three points. How on earth we lost to them this season is beyond comprehension: 80% of the play, we battered them, yet they end up with the points.
And don't get me started on away days at Craven Cottage (bar 2009-10 season)... What is it about Fulham away?
Can't be arsed with stats... lies, damned lies etc.
White men can't hump, shitty shitty bang
Bang, womb raider, planet of the gapes
Bang, womb raider, planet of the gapes
People will happily discuss non-football matters till they're blu in the face yet something about football comes up and people are lining up to say its a load of shite. How could someone not find that stat to be interesting? Not in a "celebrating something that doesn't count" kind of way, but a "where have we gone wrong" sort of way.
Personally I think this is food for thought. Out 5th placed seasons were based upon beating the rest - and we did that with real consistency. We were just starting to get the balance right between playing with a bit of pace and style and then we went too far and ended up playing tippy tappy crap that gives you a chance against the better sides as they actually come at you but isn't really inventive enough to break down the rest.
So the challenge for Moyes is to get back that open attacking football against the lesser lights while having the smarts to switch tactics against the better sides and play tactical, possession football with changes in tempo.
Personally I think this is food for thought. Out 5th placed seasons were based upon beating the rest - and we did that with real consistency. We were just starting to get the balance right between playing with a bit of pace and style and then we went too far and ended up playing tippy tappy crap that gives you a chance against the better sides as they actually come at you but isn't really inventive enough to break down the rest.
So the challenge for Moyes is to get back that open attacking football against the lesser lights while having the smarts to switch tactics against the better sides and play tactical, possession football with changes in tempo.
Andrew Ellams - You tell me what good it is beating the top teams, when we can't even beat supposed inferior teams below us.
The only stats that truly matter is where we finished in the table.
The fact we couldn't beat inferior teams, the fact we rolled over quite a number of times this season.
You need to look at the bigger picture, as Tony mentioned above. We finished closer to the bottom than we did to the top.
Was last season competitive? I don't particularly think so, I think there where a lot of really bad teams incapable of winning matches and consistency was non existent.
And you can add us into this mix, where we bad? I can tell you, that we where not good.
5 points clear of 8th, 5 points behind the shite in 6th.
We didn't qualify for Europa, which was never ever going to happen in a million years.
We finished probably where we should have done, we where not good enough for anything else. I am just relieved the crap below us where incapable of putting any kind of run together for long enough to catch us.
Overall for me a very poor season when you factor in the cowardly tactics in the FA Cup, and all the other cowardly tactics at home against very poor sides like Wolves and West Ham. There can not be excuses for those performances, and next season we won't have the money while everyone below us spends more than us.
I am not looking forward to next season one bit...i'd be surprised if we even finished anywhere near the top 10 next year, such is the shit we are in financially and with an aging squad..not good.
The only stats that truly matter is where we finished in the table.
The fact we couldn't beat inferior teams, the fact we rolled over quite a number of times this season.
You need to look at the bigger picture, as Tony mentioned above. We finished closer to the bottom than we did to the top.
Was last season competitive? I don't particularly think so, I think there where a lot of really bad teams incapable of winning matches and consistency was non existent.
And you can add us into this mix, where we bad? I can tell you, that we where not good.
5 points clear of 8th, 5 points behind the shite in 6th.
We didn't qualify for Europa, which was never ever going to happen in a million years.
We finished probably where we should have done, we where not good enough for anything else. I am just relieved the crap below us where incapable of putting any kind of run together for long enough to catch us.
Overall for me a very poor season when you factor in the cowardly tactics in the FA Cup, and all the other cowardly tactics at home against very poor sides like Wolves and West Ham. There can not be excuses for those performances, and next season we won't have the money while everyone below us spends more than us.
I am not looking forward to next season one bit...i'd be surprised if we even finished anywhere near the top 10 next year, such is the shit we are in financially and with an aging squad..not good.
Ernie Baywood - You are talking about Moyes when you mention tactics right? The same man who wouldn't know how to tie his own shoes.
Sorry lol
Sorry lol
Easy solution James, wear slip ons
In reference to Paul Olson?s mail about finishing top of the top 8, I can confirm that we did in fact finish 3rd on goal difference.
Well, if nothing else it shows the games we need to focus on for next year. 1 point from Villa and Bolton, none from West Brom. Our home form against them only brought us 7 points and the away 5 points. The message is simple: next year, Fortress Goodison for everyone ? not just the top 6.
United 25 points +5Fulham did not beat any of the sides above them and therefore rather than a top 8, I think a more valid comparison will be the top 7, however it makes no difference to the order and simply that we are 4 points clear of Liverpool and Spurs now lead Chelsea only on goal difference. So when it mattered, we can deliver.
Arsenal 23 points +5
Everton 23 points +4
Liverpool 21 points +3
Spurs 20 points +1
Chelsea 18 points -1
City 16 points -3
Fulham 4 points -14
Perhaps it is against the teams in the bottom 6 that highlight the true picture of why we only finished 7th.
Arsenal 32 points +24So it was our performances against the teams who see us a equals is where we came unstuck. Clearly the four Champions League qualifiers are far more adapt at putting away the teams at the bottom, but even we were better than the other two of the top 7. And as we are better than them against the top 7, then it is those in the middle ? Stoke, Bolton, West Brom, Newcastle, Villa and Sunderland. There the table for why we were 7th not 5th is:
Chelsea 30 points +23
United 29 points +25
City 27 points +9
Everton 19 points +8
Spurs 17 points +2
Liverpool 15 points +5
Spurs 25 points +6And all of this out of a possible 36 points.
Liverpool 22 points +7
Everton 12 points -5
Well, if nothing else it shows the games we need to focus on for next year. 1 point from Villa and Bolton, none from West Brom. Our home form against them only brought us 7 points and the away 5 points. The message is simple: next year, Fortress Goodison for everyone ? not just the top 6.
Its funny Paul, that apart from Fulham, all the other teams in your 'super 8' finished above us in the league, and thats what matters at the end of the day.
You´re missing the point Brian, like many others.
Some people seem to think i posted this as some sort of celebration, go figure.
Yes, the final table counts. But, it´s not really quantum physics to say that this sort of stats mean something. If you can´t agree it is interesting numbers then i consider you unimaginative.
But, just to be clear once and for all.
I did not post this to defend the manager/club/Kenwright or the Queen mother although many certainly seem to believe i did.
Some people seem to think i posted this as some sort of celebration, go figure.
Yes, the final table counts. But, it´s not really quantum physics to say that this sort of stats mean something. If you can´t agree it is interesting numbers then i consider you unimaginative.
But, just to be clear once and for all.
I did not post this to defend the manager/club/Kenwright or the Queen mother although many certainly seem to believe i did.
Paul, I know where your coming from with the original post.
The stats look good, but then I look back at some of the shite against the lesser teams, and then competing with the top teams becomes irrevelant to me.
The stats look good, but then I look back at some of the shite against the lesser teams, and then competing with the top teams becomes irrevelant to me.
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1 Posted 01/06/2011 at 13:56:33
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And I'm still going to check the Footy news 3 times a day in the hope that the impossible happens and we sign 3 players that I've actually heard of. Or just 3 players even.... at least Fellaini will be like a new signing. If we don't sell him.
Blue summers... fucking brilliant.