Trouble with Bily even playing him in a more central role is that he rarely if ever tracks back and we need players who will track back to help break down an attack.

"Vellios looks like he has the potential to be as good as Big Dunc"

Erm..................

Love the positive post BUT based on 10 secs of football im afraid yer mad!!!!!!

and Billy will be off as soon as a decent bid comes in

Absolutely agree with the OP.

Bily should play behind the main striker.

He has great vision and can play a slide rule pass but his lack of phsicality and work rate rule him out of the wide midfiled roles.

I just hope Moyes sees it because with Beckford's movement and Bily's vision, which we lack elsewhere in the park (especially in the current first choice AM Tim Cahill), we have potential which should at least be considered.

Bily has great skill but lacks the strength and pace for the premier league, he needs to beef up 1st to do well for us . That said i'd try him behind the striker ,unless we can get £8mill plus for him, then i'd go and get N'zogbia.
Dont agree with your assessments of our younger players if they where that good Moyes would have given them more game time already.
I'm almost tempted to say ok Citeh give us £20mill and Bridge or Lescott for Baines and splash out on Sturridge and Crouch, we need strikers.

Jake... just because Moyes bought Bily doesn't make him a good player. I remember him buying centre half who could not head the ball. You must watch the edited highlights of our games because if you watched him as I do every home game then you would have to agree that only position that he should be playing is in some one else's team.... To replace Cahill you would need passion and a huge heart, neither of which Bily possesses.

Bob, your last sentence is why my son at nine years old has the name Cahill on the back of his shirt. We haven't seen the best of him this season sadly with the longstanding foot injury but he plays every game with total passion. He is a throwback in my opinion, a very non twenty-first century premiership footballer who gives his all every game and understands the fans feelings. When we look back at this decade Tim Cahill will be a legendary figure in the way that Latchford, King, Lyons are (for those of a certain generation...)

I don't think Bilyaletdinov has done enough to stake a claim for a starting place in any position. However, seeing as how he is one of the few players we have who will have a pop from outside the area, & to some effect too, I don't understand why moyes doesn't bring him on as sub in his prefered role against those teams we're struggling to breakdown. I can't help but think he's the sort of player who could have turned a few of those frustrating draws into wins. Nonetheless, even after another complete season, he's still got it all to prove in this league & I'm not sure he ever will.

You have to ask, Jake, about the mental ability of a player who, whilst possessing the talent to lash goals home from 30 yards with astonishing aplomb, also manages to execute so many air-shots from just five yards out (often in the centre) completely failing to connect. You're right, Bily has an exquisite talent in many respects but the pre-requisites for Premier League football are every bit mental as they are physical. Bily has a clear deficiency in the former, almost painful to witness and it's horrible to see a lad suffer as much as he does because he berates himself first...but then he'll go and do it all over again. Own worst enemy.

He's just not going to cut it, Jake. Sad to say. It was worth Moyes' punt on him, well maybe not at the price he paid. But it's time to face reality.

Next season's going to be tough enough as it is, without sentimental hoping that a fella who is over 26 is finally going to cut it. If we get anything around the £3m mark we should just grab it. I'll be amazed, but delighted, if we get a penny more.

Hi Jake,

Although I'm one of the more positive fans on this site, I have to say that in this one case I can't really share your optimism.

Whilst I totally agree that Bily isn't a winger, has a cracking shot on him and could maybe do a job in the middle, I just don't think we're the club (or maybe even the league) for him. His style seems just too languid and slow for the pace of the premier league where you don't get the same space you would in other countries and he doesn't chase the play or get stuck in with tackles which Moyes demands from his team.

Then there's the issue of who he'd be pushing out if we did play him there - it's not just Cahill, but there's also Felliani, Arteta, Osman and even Gueye competing for attacking midfield slots.

I personally think we'd be better playing two proper forwards upfront anyway with a couple of Beckford/Saha/Vellios/Anichebe/New Forward Signing
.

In terms of reliance on youth versus new signings, I agree to a point in that bringing youth through and keeping the club running at a profit is a more sustainable model for our club than signing expensive mercenaries on increasingly ludicrous wages.
That said, we do need a bit of experience to balance/inspire the youth, especially on the flanks+upfront. For me we need 3 players to give us a chance next year: 2 proper wide-midfielders (1 probably paid+1 free) and a striker with some sort of pedigree who can play up front on his own if/when needed.
Elsewhere, whilst it would be nice to have wingback cover I think we can muddle through, so it's more a case of covering player sales (i.e. if we lose Heitinga, we need another central def).

I like this Craig Mikail-Smith. Looks like he has it all. Fast, smart, heads and shoots well, and has great confidence. And he won't cost too much. Bet he makes it in th Prem.

Bily is classy and very skilful?

Velios has demonstrated he has the potential to be as good as Duncan Ferguson?? />
Gueye takes the game by the scruff of the neck???

The only signings we need are a couple of free transfers????

Who are you? Ned fucking Flanders? I understand some people are inordinately optimistic and have an unshakeable positive outlook on life but you can't seriously believe any of the above. You'll be telling us camel shit tastes like caviar next.

Bily is a waste of space, physically and mentally weak, lacking in pace, spirit and work rate.

Velios has played about 8 minutes all season so how you can come to any conclusion about his potential is pretty mystifying:

Gueye did show a few nice touches and a willingness to take people on in one game but then proceeded to stink the place out the following week. Again it is way to early to make any judgement call about the lad.

Im afraid that I cannot share your 'blue tinted' views of the players you mention...it sounds like you are not a realist and think that every player who runs out in a shirt for us is far better than he really is....Bily sits on the bench for Russia nowadays and its far too soon to see the potential in Velios or for that matter Maggy....You sound like a lot of fans who make so called legends out of mediocre players and cannot see the obvious faults that stop them ever becoming REAL stars like Ball, Harvey, Kendall, Labone, Vernon, Collins and Young.
Bily has been a dreadful failure and certainly NOT worth the money paid for him on his showings so far..

Bily is on the bench for Russia because he isn't playing regularly for his club. He's on the bench for his club because, skilful though he may be, he has never really adapted to the pace and demands of the Premiership. Maybe he never will.

I have a feeling that if the gaffer could get rid and get his money back he would. I also have a feeling he's gone this Summer (Bily that is - don't want to slip slide into another thread).

I think as Tim Cahill is getting older and can play fewer games due to injury or fatigue, we should try Billy in the ?Cahill role? as it is now known as.
________________
Cahill's our best header up front by a wide mark, while Bily is hopeless at that. In the role you mention, he'd be third choice at best.

And yer right, he's not much of a winger. I've wanted him to work as he has some skill, but I'd sell to fund a winger.

We also need two strikers, one on free maybe, but certainly not two. We need a top class (ok maybe not £25 m, but yes £14-15 m) striker. How? By sales, I'm afraid.

Was one of Bily's first and longest defenders. Really wanted him to do well. Thought he had the class and intelligence that we seemed to lack in the upper midfield (particularly while Arteta was injured). But I think his time with us has been a disappointment. He appears to be getting worse the longer he is with us and I think his confidence in himself and his teammates' confidence in him is totally shot.

Time for him to have a fresh start at another club and another league. I think he is an immense talent and I'd like him to fulfill his huge potential but I don't think he's suited to Everton's style of play and to the speed of the premier league. IF he stays, Moyes must give him the time and play him in the position to do well. He is NOT a winger. Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Gavin #1, Moyes always gets criticised for not leaving a player up front when we're defending corners so it seem like Bily not tracking back would be a good thing as he'd be available to collect the hoofball from Jags.

I like Bily, want him to work out but it doesn't look like it will happen.

I agree that he needs to be played behind the striker, not on the wing, but I doubt its ever going to happen.

Although he is an entirely different type of player to Cahill, I really think there is success to be found in playing Bilyaletdinov in that position. Moyes might be a good manager, but he is also stubborn, so the chance of seeing him try something as obvious as this is next to nil.

Bily will be sold or frustratingly played on the wing again next season.

I agree that Bily sitting behind Beckford could be a potent combination. It confuses me that Moyes played him out wide because he never has been a winger.

Let's not be hard too on Jake for this posting....sounds to me that he maybe one of our younger generation of supporters who still has the ability to see positives where there are none...unlike us older generation.

IMO Bily is absolutely awful...apart from one or two goals from outside of the area he has offered absolutely nothing since his arrival. He has no pace, no guile and most of all NO HEART.

Moyes should hold his hands up and admit he made another mistake (a la Koldrup) with this one only this time he wasted £10 million and not five.

GET RID ASAP

Drew, for someone who allegedly has great vision, I have yet to see a footballer who has so many times had an opponent come up behind him and take the ball off him, that's not good vision mate.
I am sick of hearing this shite about putting him inside and he will be a success, the lad has a great shot and sod all else, some people live in cloud cuckoo land and John Daley summed it all up to me,

I like your positivity,Jake. I`ve learned to temper mine with at least a little reality! Bily has been a flop and some of the others you mention have much to do to become stars.As far as the money coming in for Yak,Yobo & co is concerned ,I think we`ll do well to get £5M for the lot and Davey has a hard summer in store as he seeks to ensure we stay at the right end of the table.But,as ever,he`ll make it!

I wrote a long article last Summer about the need to play Billy in the middle, maybe in the Cahill role. It hasn't happened and the sad truth is that he hasn't deserved it. If anything i would say that he has gone downhill this season, and as someone said above although he score the odd 20 yard corker he also misses quite a few 5 yard sitters!

Rumours inform us that his stock is still high in his homeland and some even say we might recoup our full transfer fee! With our squad as small and limited as it is i don't think we can afford to keep a potential £6m windfall on the bench in the hope that he might one day turn it around.

He's had two seasons. If he stays i wish the best for him but i think its time to say 'do svidaniya'.

Paul #19 and John #11....couldn't agree more fellas

While no fan of Billy by any stretch of the mean, if (and that's a big IF) he had received the same unquestionable loyalty from our manager as Leon Osman did then he would be twice the player.

Paul Gladwell you wrote 'I have yet to see a footballer who has so many times had an opponent come up behind him and take the ball off him, that's not good vision mate'.
I can only assume you like many others have chosen to forget about years of Osman being caught on the ball like a rabbit in the headlights. Indeed it happened so often that he actually keeping hold of the ball started to become quite the culture shock.

Of course I shall look forward to the criticism that will inevitiably come my way for having the gaul to slate 'Darling Leon'.

Back to Billy he is far too one paced for this league and so he should be flogged to whomever. I for one (and I'm assuming it's only me) thinks that to an extent thinks he has been mismanaged but I can accept that others just think he is a complete waste of time which is more than the gratitude that I am certain to receive for criticising a player whom has received unrivalled loyalty.

N'zogbia? do me a fucking favour. The best thing about him is his agent's ability to talk him up. You watch, next week he'll be 'interesting Barcelona'.

Lets not be too hard on Bily, he's playing in a league full of cloggers, nobody in our team knows the Russian for 'man on', he's obviously a confidence player and he's a skilfull, creative player.

If you guys just want a player who will run around the pitch then we should sell him and talk Calton Palmer out of retirement.

Personally, I'd give him more time. I can see a classy player in there somewhere.

We all hoped that DM's high profile buys would come good but really none of them have truly justified their fees when we are short of money !! Even Felli has not lived up to a supposed 15 mill fee....Heitinga and Bily are certainly not STARS in our squad and would not get into our best eleven if everyone was fit.
Players who are 'bought' should always be in the team otherwise they are not worth paying big money for....strangely enough the so called cheaper players are much better value eg; Cahill, Arteta, Jags, Baines, Saha (I truly wish he could be kept fit), Distin and Coleman..
All the older ones have given great service and we must make every effort to hang onto Jags, Baines and Coleman.....we must keep the squad average age down and not just plug gaps with short term fixes.
Distin for me has been the 'buy' of the season and I have nothing but admiration for the guy who stays very fit, does no bleating and ALWAYS performs reliably.
He and Jags are one of the best centre back partnerships in the premier and they are the cornerstone of our team along with Baines, Hibbo/Neville in front of Howard.
Our midfield has been inconsistent since Peanuts left and our attack has been toothless on occasions....I reckon the defence deserves all the plaudits as they have performed heroically for most of the season.

Dermot. # comm 15.
I like you, saw something in Bily, and was for ever defending his displays and at sometimes lack of interest for want of a better description.
In our after match discussion of the game, in the pub.
I feel that something has got to happen, because Moyes must be as confused, as most fans, and if the lad has to move on so be it.
Our squad is too small, to be carrying someone who only contributes in the odd match.
Gus Hiddinck, rates him, maybe if he moves to Chelski so will Bily???

I think Bily is technically a good footballer who, for one reason or another, has been unable to settle into the English game and/or Everton?s play.

He does look weak for the English game, and he would have found it tough anyway being the slight figure that he is. However, I don?t think it?s helped that not once has he been played in his correct position, which ultimately has seen his confidence shot to pieces.

For the last few games of the season I would have played him behind the forward and see how he done. If he was still unable to adapt then a sale in the summer would have had to of happened, although I can see him going anyway.

It really frustrates me that he will probably leave us, play in his right position for another club, get his confidence back and have a great time with them.

Cue to a toffeeweb post in a few months time?? ?why couldn?t he play like that for us??!

Paul # 19

Getting caught in posession has nothing to do with "vision" unless you are talking about the peripheral/specsavers kind.

As anyone else who read the post will realise, I was referring to the ability to visualise play before it happens in order to put the ball where it needs to be a moment later.

I do understand completely those who have given the lad his last chance because he has been largely pathetic.

We're not going to get back what we paid for him this season so DM may just as well put him in his favourite spot for a couple of friendlies and see what happens.

He's got all the ability in the world i.e. on a saha sort of level but I think it's time to take the money for him. We cannot have another year of important, expensive players letting us down full stop. Anything over £7m has to be taken to spend on a striker as Cahill will be good for another year at least with a good summer's rest.

He's got all the ability in the world i.e. on a saha sort of level but I think it's time to take the money for him. We cannot have another year of important, expensive players letting us down full stop. Anything over £7m has to be taken to spend on a striker as Cahill will be good for another year at least with a good summer's rest.

* Note, I had typed the original reply post on my iPhone however died after typing for 50mins... here is what i remember...

I would like to class myself as the younger generation biten by the lil fucker bug known as EVERTON FC. I would have to agree with the OP'ster regarding his view on the current squad and in particular Bily.

As much as I respect the older generation of supporters here - this will probably get me absolutely smashed but fuck it, I'm going to say it anyway - keep him as would most probably be the only one to change the way we play (points and justification below):

"...the Everton way"

Lets elaborate on the above phrase (well my interpretation and what initially lead me to this club): proud HISTORY!, work for your mate next to you, encourage each other, the UNDERDOGS, make a mistake - make up for it, NO BILLIONARE, champion team - not team of champions, 100% no more, no less.

Alright, cliche's left, right and centre however someone tell me which other club in the premier league that is 'fortunate / unfortunate' to fall under all those categories?

However (again, my interpretation on 'the Everton way') from what I gather and I'm sure the majority will agree is that there are other trait's that would somewhat depict the so called Everton way.

"Hoofball, Negativity, Everyone drop back for a goal kick, cannot be low grade sides, one up front, defensive structure, Anichebe?"

Alright, the comment was unnecessary re: Anichebe (thought I'd add him as every other post turns into an Anichebe debate) but the above phase too would depict the so-called 'current or existing' Everton way. Maybe its management that needs to change but in order to change the latter end of the phrases, we'll need to look at implementing change in our play.

Bily has the creativity, vision, spark to ability to create something out of nothing but unfortunately (as clearly stated above), does not show it too often. Maybe it's management and the current coaching staff but if we can at least get the squad to play a bit more smarter and avoid the hoofing and hoping for a corner/set play - lets try to use the creativity of our players in order to (as much as I'd hate to say it), play like Arsenal.

We should give him one more off season in order to work with him and justify his worth (surely Hiddink and Moyes knew that he required much needed conditioning). Get his confidence up, put on the needed size (protein shakes, roids, anything!) required to play in the PL, and his increase in strength and fitness should follow suit.

As he is one of the very few players in the side, I genuinely believe has the creativity and vision to change the tide of a hard fort match (Arteta and Osman being the others) surely he should get his final chance.

Hypothetically (and just to clarify, this is not my ideal option), if things do not work out, I'm sure the increase game time and work done over the off season should surely surpass this seasons stats of 2 goals this season and a hand full of appearances and therefore increase his price...


Anyway this typing is doing my head in (2hrs worth) - off to bed, as I'm sure I'll be left with some very interesting reads on the ride to work tomorrow morning...

Apologies all, if the above post is somewhat hard to understand - after my second attempt quality unfortunately appears to fade... also doesn't help nodding off every minute, cheers.

Agree with Gavin @1 I like the idea of Bily central but it would be suicide defensively against the better teams. At least Cahill puts a shift in.

Whether Bily comes good or not, the problem is that we've got a few options in the 'hole role' (sounds like a porno) & CM while we're crying out for width, a back up LB and a couple of strikers. It would be in both the club and the player's interests to ship him back to Russian and hopefully invest the money in other areas of the field

John Gee - N'zogbia would be brilliant, but he won't be coming. Not sure how much time you want to give Billy, this is like saying Moyes is learning after 9 years of being our manager. The first time I saw him against Portsmouth, I was waiting to see this 11m illion whizz kid, I couldn't beleave my eyes, he was so slow.

To be fair, Neil, Moyes recouped £3.4m on Kroldrup so really only 'wasted' £1.6m! Add to that, Bily has already done a hell of a lot more than Kroldrup ... although I concur that it hasn't worked out as well as was anticipated. I'm sure where he to go it would be for decentish money.

With respect Jake, I'm not sure what players you've been watching because they are sure as hell not the same ones that I watched this season. Firstly Bily. Yes he's clearly got some class and talent, we've seen plenty of glimpses of it but will he really take the game by the scruff of the neck like Cahill or the player who you are forgetting put in a great shift in the 'Cahill role' at the back end of last season...yes Leon Osman..the short answer is surely no. As stated in numerous posts above he lacks the heart as well as the strength and desire to succeed in this league.

Secondly, Vellios. I hope that comment about Duncan was tongue in cheek! To be fair the lad hasn't had a fair crack yet but he's pretty much a lower league Greek player. Not fit to lace the big man's boots. I certainly didn't feel a presence when he came on during a few games last season. I'd rather have James Vaughan any day. The jury is well and truly out. Another Jukebox if you ask me.

Finally, Gueye is like Manny Fernandes you say? When Fernandes first pulled on a blue shirt I knew instantly that the guy oozed class. Some of his passing was so crisp and his shooting packed a bit of punch too. Gueye has bags of potential yes but he is very raw. Fernandes was cultured and a calming influence in possession from day one. Gueye is a bit like a rabbit in headlights when he gets the ball. I did think he had a very good hour against Blackburn though and I look forward to seeing a bit more from him but he's less Fernandes more a left-sided Coleman.

I still think he can be very useful for us. I really believe the problem is that he can't get a continuous run in the team, in whatever role. It doesn't have to be in the first 11. But one are where I do agree with the Moyes critics is in the substitutions. If Moyes want to use him as a sub, have him coming on for the last 30 minutes. This way he gets a continuous run in the team, is able to build some confidence as well as cohesion with the team, and has enough time to influence the game and get a goal or two.

He's got a great shot on him, he is good with the ball, and he does always look for the pass. I think part of the problem with supporters' perceptions of him is that most of the time when they see him it's in the last 5-10 minutes and he's trying to make a smart pass but his supporting players are already winded or just looking to let the game run out. So his passes don't come off or he's left stranded on the ball without support and has nowhere to go. For some reason in America we had a ton of Russia's games on the TV for the past few years and I watched him play over and over again. And every match he was so good on the ball, picked out the right runs, and just fit right in. I still say give him one more year and hope that Moyes continues with the trend I started to see last season, giving the subs more time on the pitch. He's a talented footballer, but I do agree we haven't seen enough yet. But I think there are multiple reasons and they're not all down to him. But, he does need to work his ass off next season, if he's still here.

(Gueye).... he's less Fernandes more a left-sided Coleman.

Ah, you mean he's a Pienaar.

What ever the question is...Bily is not the answer.

"The lad has some talent, otherwise Moyes woldn't have bought him."

Any talented player we have had under Moyes has had his talent stifled or coached out of him.
See reports today that he has offered Weir a coaching role ?
Just what we need, another fucking defender teaching us how to keep a clean sheet and earn a point.

He may be weak at tackling but he gets some lovely passes into the box when it appears there is no way to get through. As soon as the game is going wrong Mr Moyes changes his usual delayed decision making and subs Bily on the odd occasion he gets a start. He looked best in his earlier games before we destroyed his confidence.
If he leaves for a PL club it will haunt us. Spurs would make him a star. He has never got an even break from us. Fair enough he may not suit our supposed style so why buy him in the first place?
He has rare talent and it is sad to see our manager and coaches fail to bring the best out of him by giving him little time and playing him out of position. He has been failed by Everton!

Theres only one position we will be in if Billy is a regular next season and thats fighting relegation.

One of the worst players to pull on the blue jersey in the last five years.

Producing something every 15-25 games and bypassed for the other 23 is not my idea of improving and moving forward.

He has no football brain or positional sense what so ever and is out of his depth in the Premier League.

Any player who helps the fullback out defending with there arms behind there back seriously needs to have a word with themselves.

If he was English cost ten million and didn't have a silly name he would have been crucified, Mcfadden was shite but was alot better than Billy.

Rob Hollis @43 Spurs would make him a star? Is that the same Spurs who's trophy cabinet is bursting over the last ten years?

Dont fool yourself Spurs had a bit of a run in the Champions League that apart were there usual inconsistent self in the league.

The only way Billy would look good in England is if each team played with five players and the game was played at walking pace.

Said it before & I'll say it again, we wanted Bystrov but we got Bilyaletdinov - somewhere down the line someone fucked up.

I'd be delighted if we managed to fool someone into offering £5M for the waste of space.

Bily is gutless.

No effort, no passion, he just doesnt care.

Get rid £9M for that waste of space.

The guy who sent Moyes the Bily DVD with the highlight reel deserves an oscar

I don't mean Spurs are unbeatable I just think he would shine in a team like that.

Having said that we live in a democracy and my opinion seems to be as popular as Nick Clegg this time.

I still agree with me though!