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Weir? Please No!
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Just read it's rumored David Weir is being considered as a coach for Everton.
The last thing we need is a guy who learned his trade under Walter Smith, Moyes, and Alex McLeish - defense first, men behind the ball, et al.
Are we ever going to get an attack minded coach?
Please don't bring Weir back, please....
Jamie Crowley, Posted 07/06/2011 at 22:59:46
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Dick believe me "Smackhead" would not be welcome through the doors at Goodison Park.
Back to the article, just how many defensive coaches do we need at Everton as we already have Steve Round and Alan Stubbs, surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to think maybe just maybe we need an attack minded coach, preferably with European pedigree who has actually won something?
Back to the article, just how many defensive coaches do we need at Everton as we already have Steve Round and Alan Stubbs, surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to think maybe just maybe we need an attack minded coach, preferably with European pedigree who has actually won something?
Thats finally done it for me.......I am killing myself.....bye
It's easier to coach "gettin' behind the ball".
Unimaginative shite it maybe - but if it happens - any argument about Moyes being anything but a one trick pony is bolloxed.
Another defence coach - what a waste of time and money - just abysmal.
Unimaginative shite it maybe - but if it happens - any argument about Moyes being anything but a one trick pony is bolloxed.
Another defence coach - what a waste of time and money - just abysmal.
.....and of course we already know he is a shit coach............
Dick #1.
Are you for real?
Don #3.
Good.
Trevor #4.
I dare you to say something good about the blues. Anything will do, you can even keep Moyes out of the sentence if you like.
Gavin (2) I fully agree, I posted in the mailbag about this a few weeks ago when Moyes was making noises about Weir. I got torn to shreads by most, I was just trying to say - Yeah he's an honest pro blah blah blah, but do we really need another ex defender. I thought of someone (like) Ray Wilkins who is available, Zolo etc. We will never get anywhere with such a defensive outlook, for any premiership football club that is a disgrace.
Dick #1, you appear to have had one too many today.
Mike
I'm guessing you're on about the unconditional bollocks eh?
Perhaps I'll leave that to exasperated "real" fans like you.
If you think this shower masquerading as a board and management team are worthy of praise you're welcome - not for me - they're shite.
I'm guessing you're on about the unconditional bollocks eh?
Perhaps I'll leave that to exasperated "real" fans like you.
If you think this shower masquerading as a board and management team are worthy of praise you're welcome - not for me - they're shite.
Bloody Hell Dick, are you serious? - I would rather eat my own shit.
Have you guys ever watched a top team train ?
Do you really believe there are people out there who "teach people to score " ?
Robbie Fowler was a natural goalscorer, he would have known to arch his runs, strike across the keeper, pull onto the little fella for crosses etc etc by the time he was 12.
When he was training with Liverpool they would concentrate on giving him plenty of pratice, NOBODY tried to coach him ? ? can you imagine it ? "Listen here young Fowler me lad, this is how you find space . .and this is how you put it away " ?
Do you guys really believe a Manccini, coaches Tevez, or SAF coaches Rooney ? or somebody at Barca taught messi how to beat three men and score ?
99% of the work done on strikers is spent developing them mentally and Physically and giving lots of pratice. you cant inject them with intelligence or skill if it isnt there to begin with , they either have it or they dont !
A huge chunk of Barcelonas training sessions is about them regaining possesion, they sometimes spend the entire session trying to improve the speed at which they close down.
Pep actually sets a 6 second target for his players to get the ball back when they`ve lost it. he does not "coach them" to play they did all that when they were kids and if they didnt have the talent they would long since have been discarded.
The best thing you can give a top striker is pratice, lots of it, in as many different situations as you can dream up.
Bob Paisleys idea of coaching the strikers was to aquire the most talented in the first place.
Most of these ex strikers dont quite know how they did it themselves, it was instinctive, so they have no chance of relaying it to other players, otherwise every club would employ a "Robbie Fowler" to "teach" his players to score.
Show me a so called "attacking coach" and I`ll show you a coach who spends most of his time practicing dead ball situations or getting his players to do the ugly things.
Without strikers with God given talent, no coach could send a team out to break down a defence thats desperate not to concede
Do you really believe there are people out there who "teach people to score " ?
Robbie Fowler was a natural goalscorer, he would have known to arch his runs, strike across the keeper, pull onto the little fella for crosses etc etc by the time he was 12.
When he was training with Liverpool they would concentrate on giving him plenty of pratice, NOBODY tried to coach him ? ? can you imagine it ? "Listen here young Fowler me lad, this is how you find space . .and this is how you put it away " ?
Do you guys really believe a Manccini, coaches Tevez, or SAF coaches Rooney ? or somebody at Barca taught messi how to beat three men and score ?
99% of the work done on strikers is spent developing them mentally and Physically and giving lots of pratice. you cant inject them with intelligence or skill if it isnt there to begin with , they either have it or they dont !
A huge chunk of Barcelonas training sessions is about them regaining possesion, they sometimes spend the entire session trying to improve the speed at which they close down.
Pep actually sets a 6 second target for his players to get the ball back when they`ve lost it. he does not "coach them" to play they did all that when they were kids and if they didnt have the talent they would long since have been discarded.
The best thing you can give a top striker is pratice, lots of it, in as many different situations as you can dream up.
Bob Paisleys idea of coaching the strikers was to aquire the most talented in the first place.
Most of these ex strikers dont quite know how they did it themselves, it was instinctive, so they have no chance of relaying it to other players, otherwise every club would employ a "Robbie Fowler" to "teach" his players to score.
Show me a so called "attacking coach" and I`ll show you a coach who spends most of his time practicing dead ball situations or getting his players to do the ugly things.
Without strikers with God given talent, no coach could send a team out to break down a defence thats desperate not to concede
Dave
Your missing the point, if your forward (why only one ?) is isolated and not getting the ball at pace in the right areas with support you could have Van Basten in there and it wouldn't work.
Moyes needs someone to raise these ideas and ask why this isn't happening - that is "attack minded" not what you suggest.
Your missing the point, if your forward (why only one ?) is isolated and not getting the ball at pace in the right areas with support you could have Van Basten in there and it wouldn't work.
Moyes needs someone to raise these ideas and ask why this isn't happening - that is "attack minded" not what you suggest.
The problem is not with the strikers abillity, it's with Moyes negative, defend a nil-nil scoreline mindset.
For strikers to score you have to provide them with sevice other than hoofball into wide channels.
Moyes would turn Messi into a headless channel running chicken and will continue to do so with every striker he buys.
He is a shite tactician and has a inherant fear of attack minded football.
For all of you who are happy with him you will get what you deserve next season, mediocre defensive hoofball. Weir will only compound this and i for one am fucking sick to the back teeth of it.
Please don't give me this bollocks about who would replace him and lack of money shit.
That's not my problem as a paying fan, ten fucking years of the same shite has finished me off.
For strikers to score you have to provide them with sevice other than hoofball into wide channels.
Moyes would turn Messi into a headless channel running chicken and will continue to do so with every striker he buys.
He is a shite tactician and has a inherant fear of attack minded football.
For all of you who are happy with him you will get what you deserve next season, mediocre defensive hoofball. Weir will only compound this and i for one am fucking sick to the back teeth of it.
Please don't give me this bollocks about who would replace him and lack of money shit.
That's not my problem as a paying fan, ten fucking years of the same shite has finished me off.
Trev.
Unfortunately I've been a blue to long to be an exasperated "real" fan. But hey it sounds good, a bit spanishy.
So be cool, the board will eventually change and rest assured the manager will eventually go. It happens all the time, fuck I've seen so many changes it's like watching Cora, and you never know, one day we will win a cup or even better still we might play Messi type football - no doubt leading to big smiles all round.
But for now it Moyes; and if Moyes wants Weir to add his infinite footy wisdom to Everton football club then bring it on.
Our strikers are lazy and a good attacking coach would encourage them to compete for an aerial ball, use some body strength, find some space and work the keeper. I love weir but he will not provide this nor any other coach and it is needed. The team needs pace and it needs a shift from the front lads so at least centre backs fear playing them - our lads are too easy going. Goodison has been a grave yard for strikers of late so perhaps a respected ex striker who can lift confidence or sting some criticism where needed might help? I can't believe that sharp isn't involved here.
Mike
Interesting stuff.
May I ask are you mid forties, guitar playing - a beneficiary of a trust fund?
Are the concepts of a mortgage and full time employment peripheral to you?
Do you dabble in "happier stuff"?
Nothing inherently wrong in that - just not my world - which might explain my head shaking reading your words - "Moyes, Weir and footie wisdom" in the same sentence .
As you say "be cool".
Interesting stuff.
May I ask are you mid forties, guitar playing - a beneficiary of a trust fund?
Are the concepts of a mortgage and full time employment peripheral to you?
Do you dabble in "happier stuff"?
Nothing inherently wrong in that - just not my world - which might explain my head shaking reading your words - "Moyes, Weir and footie wisdom" in the same sentence .
As you say "be cool".
I agree that good strikers are born not made but skill in that department is heavily dependent on the support given by team mates.
If ever you are in the company of players you will notice that defenders in general group with their fellow defenders and chat about that side of the game. The main topic for strikers is always about goals.
At Finch Farm our defenders can look to the coaches for advice. There is no one to whom a striker can turn when he needs advice.
I do not subscribe to the view that an adult player cannot be shown a better way of doing things. If that were the case what the hell does Round do for his wages.
A coach with Fowlers goal scoring experience would recognise in two seconds flat where Beckford and Victor need to improve also what others can do to help.
It is a load of juvenile bulldust if some are against Fowler because of his history with the other lot I
If ever you are in the company of players you will notice that defenders in general group with their fellow defenders and chat about that side of the game. The main topic for strikers is always about goals.
At Finch Farm our defenders can look to the coaches for advice. There is no one to whom a striker can turn when he needs advice.
I do not subscribe to the view that an adult player cannot be shown a better way of doing things. If that were the case what the hell does Round do for his wages.
A coach with Fowlers goal scoring experience would recognise in two seconds flat where Beckford and Victor need to improve also what others can do to help.
It is a load of juvenile bulldust if some are against Fowler because of his history with the other lot I
pointless
I watched a game last night which reminded me much of a typical David Moyes defensive-type win for Everton, except that it was more so. In this game Seamus Coleman played the full 90 minutes in a much more defensive role than he plays for Everton (and did very well IMO - very encouraging for us next season). Watching Trap's Ireland can be like watching Everton against supposedly superior opposition; we defended with our lives, limited the opposition to shooting from distance, and scored from a set-piece and a counter-attack. Result ? A 2-0 victory against one of the major football nations. Long may these 'defensive' tactics continue if they produce results like this.
Moyes' tactics more often than not get results, that is the bottom line. If they didn't then we would have a problem. Trappatoni makes Moyes look like Keegan or Ardiles FFS. 4 straight wins and no goals conceded have put us Ireland fans in dreamland for the moment.
It's all about results, nothing else. Long may it continue. (No pun intended there, but it would be great to see Shane in a blue shirt).
Moyes' tactics more often than not get results, that is the bottom line. If they didn't then we would have a problem. Trappatoni makes Moyes look like Keegan or Ardiles FFS. 4 straight wins and no goals conceded have put us Ireland fans in dreamland for the moment.
It's all about results, nothing else. Long may it continue. (No pun intended there, but it would be great to see Shane in a blue shirt).
Sorry I must totally disagree with your comments about Weir
1) Weir cost Everton around £250,000 a nominal fee as at the end of the 1998-99 season he would have been out of contract. Smith signed him at a time that Red Johnson had pulled the finacial plug e.g. selling Ferguson without the managers knowledge or agreement. He was signed from Hearts - so as regards learning his trade I would think the manager/coaching staff at his first club would also have an influence on him not just the 3 you mention.
2) Weir was/is as he is still playing a central defender - so are you saying that all the teams that play attractive attcking football have as their coaches former strikers? Our most successful manager was a certain Howard Kendall - I don't remember him as a goalscoring midfielder. ( yes I do remember the winner v Liverpool in 1968)
3) Kenny Dalglish had a reputation as an international striker - maybe he seems an attack minded manager at Liverpool - but does anyone remeber his Blackburn Rovers & Newcastle teams? He hardly created attack minded, creative teams at both clubs.
4) Dave Wilson#11 mentioned Bob Paisley - now although I am too young to have seen him play, I know that he was not what we would today call a striker.
You are assuming as he was/is a defender as a coach he will also be defensive - not always the case.
1) Weir cost Everton around £250,000 a nominal fee as at the end of the 1998-99 season he would have been out of contract. Smith signed him at a time that Red Johnson had pulled the finacial plug e.g. selling Ferguson without the managers knowledge or agreement. He was signed from Hearts - so as regards learning his trade I would think the manager/coaching staff at his first club would also have an influence on him not just the 3 you mention.
2) Weir was/is as he is still playing a central defender - so are you saying that all the teams that play attractive attcking football have as their coaches former strikers? Our most successful manager was a certain Howard Kendall - I don't remember him as a goalscoring midfielder. ( yes I do remember the winner v Liverpool in 1968)
3) Kenny Dalglish had a reputation as an international striker - maybe he seems an attack minded manager at Liverpool - but does anyone remeber his Blackburn Rovers & Newcastle teams? He hardly created attack minded, creative teams at both clubs.
4) Dave Wilson#11 mentioned Bob Paisley - now although I am too young to have seen him play, I know that he was not what we would today call a striker.
You are assuming as he was/is a defender as a coach he will also be defensive - not always the case.
Personally, I reckon this could be a good move. Davey Weir was surprisingly good with the ball at his feet - could be exactly the right person to get our back 4 to stop leathering the ball 70 yards up the pitch with their 1st touch.
Imagine Jags' natural defensive abilities paired with an ability to actually play football.
I'm for it.
Imagine Jags' natural defensive abilities paired with an ability to actually play football.
I'm for it.
Don't we already have about 4 coaches who were all defenders and none who were forwards?
Seems a little unbalanced to me. Especially in light of our being totally unable to put the ball in the back of the net, for the first half of the season at least...
Seems a little unbalanced to me. Especially in light of our being totally unable to put the ball in the back of the net, for the first half of the season at least...
I think our lack of potency in attack is a direct result of our severe lack of attacking talent, not the coaches we have.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Dick Fearon, have to agree with your 2nd post.
Dave Wilson, nail, head!
Dave Lynch; agree.
Richard Parker; nobody will ever teach Jags to ' put his foot on it ' like others have said, you either got it or you don't...he don't. And if he did he would have been long gone before sheff U got relegated.
Not many Fancy dan attacking players even make half successfull coaches, never mind win titles.
Ball Moore Charlton R. Hoddle.
Revie was probabley the most skillful as a player, yet his teams were painfully efficient.
Famous Coaches.
Ramsey, Nicholson (?) Fullbacks.
Stein, Busby, Shankly, Docherty, Paisley, Kendall; winghalfs.
Catterick, Clough, Ferguson; rip shit and bust run through brick wall old style centre forwards.
Wenger, not noted for actual footie skills.
There will no doubt be exceptions pointed out to me, but I remain convinced that the secret to successful coaching is better players and that there is no way on Gods earth that you can teach the knack that say, Cahill has, for being in the right place at the right time.
Dave Wilson, nail, head!
Dave Lynch; agree.
Richard Parker; nobody will ever teach Jags to ' put his foot on it ' like others have said, you either got it or you don't...he don't. And if he did he would have been long gone before sheff U got relegated.
Not many Fancy dan attacking players even make half successfull coaches, never mind win titles.
Ball Moore Charlton R. Hoddle.
Revie was probabley the most skillful as a player, yet his teams were painfully efficient.
Famous Coaches.
Ramsey, Nicholson (?) Fullbacks.
Stein, Busby, Shankly, Docherty, Paisley, Kendall; winghalfs.
Catterick, Clough, Ferguson; rip shit and bust run through brick wall old style centre forwards.
Wenger, not noted for actual footie skills.
There will no doubt be exceptions pointed out to me, but I remain convinced that the secret to successful coaching is better players and that there is no way on Gods earth that you can teach the knack that say, Cahill has, for being in the right place at the right time.
Dick, You are entitled to your opinion, but next time you visit the shrink, be honest and tell him everything.
Don # 3 - Dont tease us
David Weir was an excellent servant to the club and a person who Moyes obviously still has a lot of time for. I for one would have no problem with Him coming back in a coaching capacity. A lot of people need to get their heads out their ass on here and stop reading to much into things.
David Weir was an excellent servant to the club and a person who Moyes obviously still has a lot of time for. I for one would have no problem with Him coming back in a coaching capacity. A lot of people need to get their heads out their ass on here and stop reading to much into things.
Well said, Col Noon. Plus, though nobody here knows it, Davie Weir was a top striker when he played in the United States at University of Evansville -- true story!
Weir could teach our defenders how to handball and get away with it.
"Moyes would turn Messi into a headless channel running chicken " - made me chuckle (sadly so true)
I say hire Carsley too whilst we're at it.
"Moyes would turn Messi into a headless channel running chicken " - made me chuckle (sadly so true)
I say hire Carsley too whilst we're at it.
The days of Fowler are long obsolete. You need strikers who are half-wingers, have pace and can dribble. Especially in our lone striker formation. The Yak was the closest we got no matter what you say about his attitude (or lack of). COYB
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1 Posted 08/06/2011 at 18:29:41
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We should be on the look out for someone with experience in the attacking side of the game. One such ex attacker springs to mind. He is taking his coaching badge and was reportedly a childhood Blue. The dark side revered him as GOD and the entire mob of them would be absolutely shattered if he joined us.
Come on down, Robbie Fowler