The Mail Bag
Superstars
Comments (25)
My frustration has already gotten the better of me this close season, and I really need to vent!
I read today about Fellaini wanting Champions League football. This is on the back of my reading that Demba Ba has signed for Newcastle.
Now, I am well aware of fans' grievances with the board and the lack of "investment". However, given that the financial situation at the club is what it is and shows no immedaite sign of changing, I would like to make a couple of points related to our squad.
We desperately need strikers. Though we have a couple of younger lads with promise, and Beckford will certainly score a few next season, without a stand-out centre forward or two, we will struglle to match 7th next season. This is obvious, I know. But this is why not pulling out all of the stops for Ba is so frustrating. To compound this issue, which is said to be related to a big salary and signing on fee, we are now linked to... Wes Brown! Yes, that's right Wes Brown, the prolific right back! For £3million, reportedly.
At Newcastle, Ba will be on no more than Arteta, and he required no transfer fee. You might say he is injury prone, but is he more so than Saha, who is on a big salary himself? I like Saha, but as Everton manager I would have offloaded him for Ba in a heartbeat. Ba is a potential superstar. He will do well at Newcastle.
Please, before the Moyes versus Kenwright battle begins, be aware that I am neither categorically. I would just love to see us take a few risks on attacking players in the transfer market.
Anthony Jones, Posted 19/06/2011 at 17:14:31
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
No money to spend again.
Ancient decrepit stadium, tiny squad, not the biggest payers of wages, outspent by Swansea!
New club motto should be nil money nil ambition.
No excuses, fucking disgrace.
How can anyone on here discuss anything else, for Christ's sake.
Kenwight out NOW.
I'd hardly call Ba a superstar after a half decent half season in the Premiership.
He didn't even seem very good at running the channels.
He didn't even seem very good at running the channels.
I think Ba is one striker that you can play upfront on thier own and still expect goals, one of few in this league. Drogba being another that springs to mind.
Frustrating thing for me is that if he's fit he's ideal in a 4-5-1
Perhaps players these days think that the clubs paying the big wages are the ones going places?
Or maybe they just realise that no one outside of the top 4 clubs have got much chance of winning anything so they may as well make as much dosh as they can
They could just be greedy though.
For me Felli hasn't said anything that isn't true, he is in mnay people's opinion our best player and most saleable asset and is probably the one player at the club with the potential to be truly world class.
He recognizes this and also that he is no longer a young player, it's time to put trophies on his mum's mantlepiece and he must be asking himself if he can do that at Everton, a club with nothing won in 16 years and selling it's better players and getting outbid for new ones.
It's not a reality most of us want to admit to but it is reality none the less!
If he leaves and makes us a tidy profit is he really going feel disloyal or that he's not helped out in some way?
For me if he does leave or gives it another twelve months before deciding and we get ripped off and sell him for buttons a la Pienaar the blame will once again lie firmly with the Board and Moyes as the minute he said he would stay(Late last seaon) he should have been signed up, and if he couldn't be then he should be sold while we have a good position to negotiate.
Frustrating thing for me is that if he's fit he's ideal in a 4-5-1
Perhaps players these days think that the clubs paying the big wages are the ones going places?
Or maybe they just realise that no one outside of the top 4 clubs have got much chance of winning anything so they may as well make as much dosh as they can
They could just be greedy though.
For me Felli hasn't said anything that isn't true, he is in mnay people's opinion our best player and most saleable asset and is probably the one player at the club with the potential to be truly world class.
He recognizes this and also that he is no longer a young player, it's time to put trophies on his mum's mantlepiece and he must be asking himself if he can do that at Everton, a club with nothing won in 16 years and selling it's better players and getting outbid for new ones.
It's not a reality most of us want to admit to but it is reality none the less!
If he leaves and makes us a tidy profit is he really going feel disloyal or that he's not helped out in some way?
For me if he does leave or gives it another twelve months before deciding and we get ripped off and sell him for buttons a la Pienaar the blame will once again lie firmly with the Board and Moyes as the minute he said he would stay(Late last seaon) he should have been signed up, and if he couldn't be then he should be sold while we have a good position to negotiate.
Moyes is on a massive salary but to be fair if I was in his shoes or that or those of Arteta?s, Cahill?s etc I would need something to keep me from going crazy. We feel it as fans but I honestly believe Moyes would be as if not more frustrated in his job than we are watching.
He and the players (in general) work their backsides off grafting and punching above our means to secure decent final standings year after year. Then instead of being rewarded and allowed to grow and develop into an even better team we are forced to watch as the teams we worked so hard to beat strengthen themselves in the transfer window, all aiming to be bigger and stronger come the first game of the season.
I know the above is like explaining to someone that the sky is blue. We all know the situation. We are a great club, a true institution of English football and yet we have no money, despite being in the top flight as long as anyone.... no prospects for investment....no real acumen...little creativity or innovation..shit the list is just too long.
A few remaining loyalists may point to the fact that this board at least isn?t doing a Leeds and is trying to run a stable club. But the cold hard truth is that when the best you can hope for is to not go broke and maintain the status quo you are effectively already dying in the modern game. Bill isn?t the worst chairman we could have he is more like in Kathy Bates in Misery, loving us to death.
I?ll never turn my back but at this time of year being a toffee is a real love hate thing for me.
He and the players (in general) work their backsides off grafting and punching above our means to secure decent final standings year after year. Then instead of being rewarded and allowed to grow and develop into an even better team we are forced to watch as the teams we worked so hard to beat strengthen themselves in the transfer window, all aiming to be bigger and stronger come the first game of the season.
I know the above is like explaining to someone that the sky is blue. We all know the situation. We are a great club, a true institution of English football and yet we have no money, despite being in the top flight as long as anyone.... no prospects for investment....no real acumen...little creativity or innovation..shit the list is just too long.
A few remaining loyalists may point to the fact that this board at least isn?t doing a Leeds and is trying to run a stable club. But the cold hard truth is that when the best you can hope for is to not go broke and maintain the status quo you are effectively already dying in the modern game. Bill isn?t the worst chairman we could have he is more like in Kathy Bates in Misery, loving us to death.
I?ll never turn my back but at this time of year being a toffee is a real love hate thing for me.
To be fair, Newcastle going around and outbidding us is the result of the domino effect that started with Chelsea buying Torres for a ridiculous sum, in turn Liverpool buying Carroll for an outlandish
£35 Million (more than what we got for Rooney, for God's sake!). Newcastle are splurging the money that they got from the Carroll sale, and who can grudge them for it ?
It is time for Moyes to take a stand now... the most saleable asset for Everton would be Fellaini IMO; sell him for £20+Million and use it to bring in players. It is less than 2 months before the season starts, so Moyes has to start wheeling and dealing ? otherwise, it will be another case of starting slow, and ending up in mid-table (or worse).
It is time for Moyes to take a stand now... the most saleable asset for Everton would be Fellaini IMO; sell him for £20+Million and use it to bring in players. It is less than 2 months before the season starts, so Moyes has to start wheeling and dealing ? otherwise, it will be another case of starting slow, and ending up in mid-table (or worse).
Getting Wes Brown would really surprise me for the simple reason we have two ageing right backs already in Neville and Hibbert and Seamus can play there as well, or Heitinga can do it if the situation calls for it. If he comes in as cover for the centre back positions, we could easily just get Yobo back.
We need a winger and a striker. Still hoping for N'Zogbia...
We need a winger and a striker. Still hoping for N'Zogbia...
Sell sell sell !!
Get £10-£15m for him. Also sell the Yak etc and raise around £40m.
Spend £10m on debt.
£10m on a few cheapo players.
Spend £20m on developing our youth setup, we've been trying to keep up with The Jones' and blown whatever money we had.
Now it's time to for Moyes and Kenwright to think outside the box and try to build the best youth setup in the country/Europe/World. This is our only chance to get back to the top.
Get £10-£15m for him. Also sell the Yak etc and raise around £40m.
Spend £10m on debt.
£10m on a few cheapo players.
Spend £20m on developing our youth setup, we've been trying to keep up with The Jones' and blown whatever money we had.
Now it's time to for Moyes and Kenwright to think outside the box and try to build the best youth setup in the country/Europe/World. This is our only chance to get back to the top.
Tommy I wrote an article about that a year or two ago, everyone just told me our youth system was fine thanks and didn't need to improve...
By the way, are we really that upset about Demba Ba? He looked okay, but not exactly a superstar. I'm more bothered that Newcastle have the likes of Ben Arfa, as I think, contrary to popular belief, that its creative players we need to make chances, not the strikers themselves to finish them.
By the way, are we really that upset about Demba Ba? He looked okay, but not exactly a superstar. I'm more bothered that Newcastle have the likes of Ben Arfa, as I think, contrary to popular belief, that its creative players we need to make chances, not the strikers themselves to finish them.
Whilst I thought he could have been a solid acquisition, labelling 'Ba' a superstar is a little bit rich I think, he looked okay for a few games in a team that was awful, maybe he'll do the same in Black and White as the barcodes go down?
Ultimately as a free transfer the differential will have been wages, Newcastle have no wage structure and are a terribly run club (albeit with a comparatively - to us anyway - wealthy benefactor), would you really condone us spending 60-80K p/week that would have been requested? And assuming we did, what happens then - presumably the agents of Baines, Arteta, Felliani et al won't just sit there without clamouring for more.
If you're talking of scouring West Ham escapees (and assuming Scott Parker is beyond our grasp), I'd say it made more sense to go for Obinna - pacy wide-player with a few tricks who had a hot spell himself earlier in the season and would definitely give us something we've been lacking.
Missing out on N'zogbia would be a greater loss (one player I genuinely covet - width, pace, tricks and finishes, did more than anyone else to keep Wigan up), but obviously he'd only be an option if we had £10M to spend which without some sizeable sales we don't!
Ultimately as a free transfer the differential will have been wages, Newcastle have no wage structure and are a terribly run club (albeit with a comparatively - to us anyway - wealthy benefactor), would you really condone us spending 60-80K p/week that would have been requested? And assuming we did, what happens then - presumably the agents of Baines, Arteta, Felliani et al won't just sit there without clamouring for more.
If you're talking of scouring West Ham escapees (and assuming Scott Parker is beyond our grasp), I'd say it made more sense to go for Obinna - pacy wide-player with a few tricks who had a hot spell himself earlier in the season and would definitely give us something we've been lacking.
Missing out on N'zogbia would be a greater loss (one player I genuinely covet - width, pace, tricks and finishes, did more than anyone else to keep Wigan up), but obviously he'd only be an option if we had £10M to spend which without some sizeable sales we don't!
Tommy and Mike, developing the youth system would do great favours for Kenshite in that it would give the useless cunt a stay of execution by churning out player sales that we'd get no benefit from, if Kenshite was to get a Rooney every few years to sell he'd never ever ever ever leave
I think its pretty simple; Everton are not an attractive proposition to any player, based purely on the fact that we don't have a pot to piss in.
I wouldn't sign for us if it wasn't for the fact I'm a blue.
I wouldn't sign for us if it wasn't for the fact I'm a blue.
Can I also add, all this talk about Kenwright out is all well & good, but do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, believe that the man wants to ruin Everton? I mean, come off it.
He doesn't have the money to sort the club out and admits it all too frankly. If he were to sell, who would he sell to exactly? Where's the next guy with the cash to step in and take over a club thats dying on its arse, has no money or assets and an ageing team?
Serious questions that I don't think any of you consider when you talk about getting rid of Kenwright.
It's all well & good wanting him out (I don't personally) but who comes in? Are you going to wave a magic wand and give us the rich benefactor that you think we all deserve due to some divine right?
It's basic economics on both a player and at club level - we have nothing to offer potential investors. Simple as that.
If you have a viable alternative to Mr Kenwright, then I for one would love to hear it.....and I'd imagine, so would he!
He doesn't have the money to sort the club out and admits it all too frankly. If he were to sell, who would he sell to exactly? Where's the next guy with the cash to step in and take over a club thats dying on its arse, has no money or assets and an ageing team?
Serious questions that I don't think any of you consider when you talk about getting rid of Kenwright.
It's all well & good wanting him out (I don't personally) but who comes in? Are you going to wave a magic wand and give us the rich benefactor that you think we all deserve due to some divine right?
It's basic economics on both a player and at club level - we have nothing to offer potential investors. Simple as that.
If you have a viable alternative to Mr Kenwright, then I for one would love to hear it.....and I'd imagine, so would he!
The Geordies are selling thier best players: Nolan/Barton, the guy at left back, and will struggle to stay in the league. Not even Ba can save that lot. He did not exactly pull his finger out to keep the Hammers up.
Felli is class, must make descision either flog him or Rodwell to raise funds.
Arteta/Cahill can go as well.
Felli is class, must make descision either flog him or Rodwell to raise funds.
Arteta/Cahill can go as well.
It is not just Newcastle who beat us whwn competing for players in the transfer market....we signed Felli without competition...Saha without competition....Bily without competition and Heitinga without competition.
Whenever ANY club compete with us we DROP OUT !!!!! What makes me smile is the likes of Felli and Heitinga saying they want
CHAMPIONS CLASS CLUBS !!
Who the hell of the top four would take them ????
Whenever ANY club compete with us we DROP OUT !!!!! What makes me smile is the likes of Felli and Heitinga saying they want
CHAMPIONS CLASS CLUBS !!
Who the hell of the top four would take them ????
Although I don?t like the reasons why Ba didn?t sign for us, I sighed with relief when Newcastle signed him. He scored a few goals, but then so has Beckford. I think we would have been paying well over the odds on wages for a player who is injury prone (and we don?t need another one of those) and not really any better than what we have already got.
As for Felliani, he is a professional footballer. Who doesn?t want to play in the Champions League? I hope we don?t sign someone who doesn?t!
We have now had two seasons out of Europe. Some fans don?t seem to realise the importance of the Europa League in attracting players. To Moyes?s credit, he gave the competition the respect it deserves, like the continental clubs. It is only in England where someone would disrespect the competition in the way O?Neal did a few years ago. If we want to attract our new players and satisfy the existing ones we need to be playing Europa League, with a view to getting in the Champions League.
As for Felliani, he is a professional footballer. Who doesn?t want to play in the Champions League? I hope we don?t sign someone who doesn?t!
We have now had two seasons out of Europe. Some fans don?t seem to realise the importance of the Europa League in attracting players. To Moyes?s credit, he gave the competition the respect it deserves, like the continental clubs. It is only in England where someone would disrespect the competition in the way O?Neal did a few years ago. If we want to attract our new players and satisfy the existing ones we need to be playing Europa League, with a view to getting in the Champions League.
James #12 has it spot on.
What's so special about Ba? I've never read anything that has positively linked us with this guy. Even if we had 50k a week to spend I'm not really convinced he's worth it. Yes we do need quality & goals up front, but I'm not convinced Ba will provide it.
For what its worth (probably the same as any twaddle you'll read in the Mail & Red tops), I reckon either or Long of Reading or Mackail-Smith frpm P'boro might offer a lot more up front. Yep they're both unproven & might flop, but Ba can hardly be said to have a long standing record of scoring goals at the top level.
Straying slighly off subject if the Yak goes to West Ham I hope its not in some sort of swap deal with Carlton Cole, who is nearly as big a waste of space as Big Vic.
For what its worth (probably the same as any twaddle you'll read in the Mail & Red tops), I reckon either or Long of Reading or Mackail-Smith frpm P'boro might offer a lot more up front. Yep they're both unproven & might flop, but Ba can hardly be said to have a long standing record of scoring goals at the top level.
Straying slighly off subject if the Yak goes to West Ham I hope its not in some sort of swap deal with Carlton Cole, who is nearly as big a waste of space as Big Vic.
Interesting comments. The problem with a short article like this is it is hard to defend your point from all angels without waffling.
I'll summarise it for those of you who seem to have made the assumption that I am a retard.
We already have players on superstar salaries, but they are not performing at a high enough standard on a regular basis.
Ba is the tip of the iceberg. Every season good players (and he is a good player) become available, but the second another club gets a sniff we lose out. We are losing out to Sunderland, Newcastle, Aston Villa et al, yet we have shown that we will pay the big salaries and signing on fees in some instances.
Heitinga is a prime example, and at Everton he is a squad player. How much is Bilyaletdinov on? He was unproven in England and cost big money to bring in.
My opinion is that our management are lacking when it comes to recognising forwards or attacking players in general of real quality, and investing in them accordingly. Keeping Anichebe and offloading Vaughan was inexcusable.
It is subjective, and time will tell whether Ba can sustain his promising form, but there is a bigger issue here. You can try to defend the management and attack the board all you want, but it makes no sense to say Moyes can do no wrong because he is at a club with strict financial constraints.
Would you rather live a day as a lion or a lifetime as a worm? Let's take a few punts and hope for the best....or not (reality kicks in).
I'll summarise it for those of you who seem to have made the assumption that I am a retard.
We already have players on superstar salaries, but they are not performing at a high enough standard on a regular basis.
Ba is the tip of the iceberg. Every season good players (and he is a good player) become available, but the second another club gets a sniff we lose out. We are losing out to Sunderland, Newcastle, Aston Villa et al, yet we have shown that we will pay the big salaries and signing on fees in some instances.
Heitinga is a prime example, and at Everton he is a squad player. How much is Bilyaletdinov on? He was unproven in England and cost big money to bring in.
My opinion is that our management are lacking when it comes to recognising forwards or attacking players in general of real quality, and investing in them accordingly. Keeping Anichebe and offloading Vaughan was inexcusable.
It is subjective, and time will tell whether Ba can sustain his promising form, but there is a bigger issue here. You can try to defend the management and attack the board all you want, but it makes no sense to say Moyes can do no wrong because he is at a club with strict financial constraints.
Would you rather live a day as a lion or a lifetime as a worm? Let's take a few punts and hope for the best....or not (reality kicks in).
I agree that Moyes could have done more to balance the squad over the past two transfer windows, hopefully he won't make the same mistakes again this summer
I would sell Felliani and buy Kayal from celtic, great player and we would have plenty left over to buy a top class striker!
Bayern Munich are in talks with Tranmere to take Dale Jennings for 600,000 euros, he'd surely be a cheap prospect we should be looking at if we are potless?
Christ, Ba has play a dozen games in this country. He looks promising sure, but the only thing we know for sure about him is that he's injury prone. He's suffered serious lay offs almost every year of his professional career so far, and apparently once failed a medical. I don't think 'Saha is injury prone too' is a good argument for signing another injury prone player - better the crock you know than the one you don't.
Moyes has what I'd consider a very positive habit of swerving players that he doesn't think offer good value. There was a time when we were rumoured to be in negotiations with David Nugent - people - including on this website - were up in arms when we failed to match Portsmoth's offer; but it looks in hindsight very much like Moyes made the right call there.
Moyes has what I'd consider a very positive habit of swerving players that he doesn't think offer good value. There was a time when we were rumoured to be in negotiations with David Nugent - people - including on this website - were up in arms when we failed to match Portsmoth's offer; but it looks in hindsight very much like Moyes made the right call there.
Right so Newcastle United have outbid us for is it 5 players - WOW. Where did they spend 2009-10 season ? Shall we remind ourselves?Wasn't it the Championship ? And as regards a certain Mr N'Zogbia - er like didn't he used to play for Newcastle United - so why did they sell him ? With due respect to Geordies - a fine people - I don't think Newcastle United are a club we should be looking to emulate!! And I think even the most fervent NUFC supporter would be bemused by some of their dealings in recent years.
Here are a couple of NUFC facts that I think defy belief/I would despair if Everton were to follow the same path.
1. They gain promotion at the 1st attempt - are comfortably midtable near the half way point - so they sack their manager.
2. They are going to replace Chris Hughton with a big name - er so enter Alan Pardew - who has probably won the World Cup,Champions League & Premier League on "Football Manager" or "FIFA 2011" - but in reality is a not much bigger name than Hughton ( and less of a score in Scrabble)
So they have beaten us to signing a few players in recent seasons - so what. For goodness sake it's still only June !!!!! There is plenty of time - and if one was to analyse very "Close Season" transfer window I am sure there would be "hits and misses" for every club. Has anyone been following the saga of the new Manchester United goalkeeper lately ? Last week it was De Gea from Athletico Madrid - this week apparently he is staying !!!
And the saga of Aston Villa's search for a manager!!?? Sometimes it's good to follow these things cos it makes you realise things don't run smoothly at other clubs !!!
Here are a couple of NUFC facts that I think defy belief/I would despair if Everton were to follow the same path.
1. They gain promotion at the 1st attempt - are comfortably midtable near the half way point - so they sack their manager.
2. They are going to replace Chris Hughton with a big name - er so enter Alan Pardew - who has probably won the World Cup,Champions League & Premier League on "Football Manager" or "FIFA 2011" - but in reality is a not much bigger name than Hughton ( and less of a score in Scrabble)
So they have beaten us to signing a few players in recent seasons - so what. For goodness sake it's still only June !!!!! There is plenty of time - and if one was to analyse very "Close Season" transfer window I am sure there would be "hits and misses" for every club. Has anyone been following the saga of the new Manchester United goalkeeper lately ? Last week it was De Gea from Athletico Madrid - this week apparently he is staying !!!
And the saga of Aston Villa's search for a manager!!?? Sometimes it's good to follow these things cos it makes you realise things don't run smoothly at other clubs !!!
I think Ba in context was a reasonable approach: can play as a lone striker (ticks DM's favourite one trick pony there) was free (tick's Kenshite's hopelessness as Chairman) and more likely to score than Anichebe (but so were hundreds of players last season including Neville who only scores every few years. We missed out, we move on, today's humour/rumour is Vicente and Bothroyd having medicals but believe it when I see it, Vicente not the player he once was and Bothroyd never has been.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 20/06/2011 at 05:34:56
Report abuse