Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Selling the family silver
62 Comments: Just read on Eurosport that Chelsea are now lining up a £20m bid for Ross Barkley. It may well be the usual paper crap but there is no smoke without fire; however, if we are forced to sell yet another young talent before we even get the benefit of him playing for us, I for one, will disown the club I have supported since 1960.
Selling off Arteta and all the others this year would pale into insignificance if this does happen and the only good I can see is that it would force the current pathetic owners to do one.
Russ Quinlan, Posted 20/09/2011 at 14:27:26
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No smoke without fire?
How many alleged Man Utd/Chelsea bids for Jack Rodwell were there? Didn't happen though. I remember the same rumours about all of our young starlets at one point.
Even if it's true, to be honest I'd bite their hand off. Didn't cost us anything and has only played a handful of games and isn't a first team starting berth guarantee.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Its becoming clear that the club and its premiership status may be severely threatened over the next 2 or 3 seasons. That £20 million might keep the wolves from the door and help us rebuild a squad which might be able to retain premiership football.
How many alleged Man Utd/Chelsea bids for Jack Rodwell were there? Didn't happen though. I remember the same rumours about all of our young starlets at one point.
Even if it's true, to be honest I'd bite their hand off. Didn't cost us anything and has only played a handful of games and isn't a first team starting berth guarantee.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Its becoming clear that the club and its premiership status may be severely threatened over the next 2 or 3 seasons. That £20 million might keep the wolves from the door and help us rebuild a squad which might be able to retain premiership football.
I agree with Jeremy about man u and chelsea. But I cant see wolves coming on for him!
The club's "business model" now is to develop talent and sell for the maximum value. It's been alluded to often enough.
Over on another website, the sheeple tearing into people who would be upset are being told that "Rooney, Lescott, Pienaar and Arteta all asked to leave".
So what. Modric asked to leave Spurs.
Over on another website, the sheeple tearing into people who would be upset are being told that "Rooney, Lescott, Pienaar and Arteta all asked to leave".
So what. Modric asked to leave Spurs.
Know what Jeremy !
Although the content of your post may be true.
It leaves me with a heavy heart.
Although the content of your post may be true.
It leaves me with a heavy heart.
The original 'story' cam from Alan Nixon.
Remember him? The journalist who was writing Rooney stories when he had shares with Paul Stretford's agency group.
A couple of Evertonians found out, and since then his attitude towards the club has been a disgrace.
Anything he writes about Everton is complete and utter bullshit and should be treated with contempt.
Remember him? The journalist who was writing Rooney stories when he had shares with Paul Stretford's agency group.
A couple of Evertonians found out, and since then his attitude towards the club has been a disgrace.
Anything he writes about Everton is complete and utter bullshit and should be treated with contempt.
Dave, it used to leave me with a heavy heart.
But the club must prevail, and football is a business these days with no room for sentiment.
I suspect that a lot of fans have not taken that onboard, and thats why there is so much angst. People hate change (there's a very good book called "who ate my cheese" - worth a read). Life moves on, football has changed. It won't ever change back to the glorious game. All we can do is ride it, and try and play the new game as best we can.
But the club must prevail, and football is a business these days with no room for sentiment.
I suspect that a lot of fans have not taken that onboard, and thats why there is so much angst. People hate change (there's a very good book called "who ate my cheese" - worth a read). Life moves on, football has changed. It won't ever change back to the glorious game. All we can do is ride it, and try and play the new game as best we can.
Dave, it used to leave me with a heavy heart.
But the club must prevail, and football is a business these days with no room for sentiment.
I suspect that a lot of fans have not taken that onboard, and thats why there is so much angst. People hate change (there's a very good book called "who ate my cheese" - worth a read). Life moves on, football has changed. It won't ever change back to the glorious game. All we can do is ride it, and try and play the new game as best we can.
But the club must prevail, and football is a business these days with no room for sentiment.
I suspect that a lot of fans have not taken that onboard, and thats why there is so much angst. People hate change (there's a very good book called "who ate my cheese" - worth a read). Life moves on, football has changed. It won't ever change back to the glorious game. All we can do is ride it, and try and play the new game as best we can.
Hate to point this out but;
1) We haven't actually sold him
2) the transfer window isn't open for 15 weeks,
3) This is no guarantee this is true - See the some 100+ players we were linked with through the summer and not until one day before the transfer windo closed where Drenthe/Denis mentioned.
Still, why let that get in the way of unloading bile on the club,,,,
1) We haven't actually sold him
2) the transfer window isn't open for 15 weeks,
3) This is no guarantee this is true - See the some 100+ players we were linked with through the summer and not until one day before the transfer windo closed where Drenthe/Denis mentioned.
Still, why let that get in the way of unloading bile on the club,,,,
Barkley will not be sold for at least another 2 years. Simply put, a team like United or Chelsea need proof that he is worth spending the amount we would demand for him. Right now he is worth 4 million max, and that is being generous. Why? Because he has only played a few professional games and is only 17. Look at Rodwell, he has not proved he could play at the top level yet so no-one has came in for him. Right now Fellaini will be the most realistic exit in the next 12 months followed by Heitinga.
No need to believe paper talk, unless you work for one.
No need to believe paper talk, unless you work for one.
When did the transfer window open up again? I thought it closed a few weeks ago!
Its just paper talk, i think if they did bid £20 million it would lead to a bidding war with Man Utd. I think It would have to be closer to £30 million before Moyes would even consider it.
I would be so disappointed. I really rate Barkley, got his jersey for my birthday and all. Would love to see him become an everton legend.
But I suppose every player has a price, just depends on how much the powers that be would accept, and whether or not anyone will offer it.
I know that it would probably make sense for us to.sell for a certain figure, but I for one (maybe selfishly) hope it doesn't happen.
But I suppose every player has a price, just depends on how much the powers that be would accept, and whether or not anyone will offer it.
I know that it would probably make sense for us to.sell for a certain figure, but I for one (maybe selfishly) hope it doesn't happen.
It's not the story I find incredulous, it's the idea that anyone thinks we can hang on to genuinely good young talent.
I will laugh if someone says Rodwell.
I will laugh if someone says Rodwell.
Rodwell
Kenwright will offload anyone if it means he can pay the debts he's run up and keep control,he proved that with Rooney.
And,no doubt,he'll get his chums like Prentice in the media to do the usual stitch up job on Ross if he goes.
And,no doubt,he'll get his chums like Prentice in the media to do the usual stitch up job on Ross if he goes.
30 mill upawards and not a penny less.
I wouldn't worry too much. With the transfer window shut. The lazy journos have to fill space and time. What was it the Express donated a whole sunday back page too. Barkley to United. All in all the wrote about 50 words.
The usual media rumours best be ignored. For one thing Barklay has not yet proven himself although looking like he has talent and especially coming back from injury. Highly unlikely any club would consider a costly investment in him right now least of all Chelski but if he has a number of solid performances behind him by January then I would hope Everton will be treating him well otherwise Sayonara ala Rooney.
It will take something like the sale of our future stars to slap our stepford fans out of their Kenwright supporting malaise.
Jeremy #7 I had to attend a 'who moved my cheese' change workshop recently in work. Despite my reservations, I found it quite amusing, especially the tips for helping you react to change in the future, my favourite:
"smell the cheese often to see if it's getting old "
I'm sending a copy of the dvd to Bill Kenwright.
As for Barkley, it maybe inevitable, but I'm not ready to smell that particular cheese for a while yet.
Let's hope, some good change is coming Evertons way.
"smell the cheese often to see if it's getting old "
I'm sending a copy of the dvd to Bill Kenwright.
As for Barkley, it maybe inevitable, but I'm not ready to smell that particular cheese for a while yet.
Let's hope, some good change is coming Evertons way.
Not being funny but I remember a similar story doing the round after a youngster had amazed everyone with some stunning goals in his first few games. Supposedly the player was going to join Inter Milan according to several newspapers at the time. It didn't materialize of course and neither did his full potential. His name was Danny cadamarteri.
To those who think this is merely idle speculation - you may be right...however remember that Mike Docherty is now working for the Russians, and would have no problem letting his new masters know exactly where our family silver was stashed. Make no mistake - having spotted Seamus and Velios before anyone else had, his view on whether Ross was a decent prospect - even at his age, would command serious respect.
Be worried.
Be worried.
Just more poor reporting. AVB, as he is now known, was asked about it on Sky Sports. He said that he'd heard that Barkley was a good young English player but didn't know anything about him
Russ I'm amazed you wrote a sentence that contained both the phrase 'the usual paper crap' and the phrase 'there's no smoke without fire' without some kind of internal logic sensor beeping at you.
We ALL know that with paper crap, there absolutely IS smoke without fire. Actually, its a poor metaphor, because you can have actual smoke without fire too.
We ALL know that with paper crap, there absolutely IS smoke without fire. Actually, its a poor metaphor, because you can have actual smoke without fire too.
If it can happen with Rooney it can happen with Barkley or any other player that you care to mention. Everton are a selling club - fact not fiction. When you are financially unviable as is the case with Everton others come to realise that an they can come and cherry pick your assets at will. We have lost the scout who unearthed Coleman and Velios to Chelsea, Manchester City are in the process of building an uber academy on our doorstep and to me it seems like every other avenue barr the ability to compete in the transfer market which we cannot is being surpassed by others including those with mighty wealth and gargantuan financial power.
Ok maybe I won't disown the Club because I have more right to support them than the tossers in charge.
What I was trying to say (albeit clumsily!) was we are in this situation because of mismanagement over the last 10 or more years and as such only selling the family silver has kept us from becoming another Leeds.
Our survival in the Premier League is down to us selling our best players
Its sad that clubs like Man U in the early days (when people were calling for old red noses head) they brought through Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, etc, etc and see where they are now, We just can't keep hold of our talent and its sad to see the Club drop to such levels and to be honest, we will never be up there at the top again while this is all going on and the present owners just keep on going.
I can see the likes of Vellios and Barkley being headhunted, the loan players being out of our reach when the loan is finished and we are back to a smaller squad, etc,etc, its never ending.
I'm just sad about it all.
What I was trying to say (albeit clumsily!) was we are in this situation because of mismanagement over the last 10 or more years and as such only selling the family silver has kept us from becoming another Leeds.
Our survival in the Premier League is down to us selling our best players
Its sad that clubs like Man U in the early days (when people were calling for old red noses head) they brought through Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, etc, etc and see where they are now, We just can't keep hold of our talent and its sad to see the Club drop to such levels and to be honest, we will never be up there at the top again while this is all going on and the present owners just keep on going.
I can see the likes of Vellios and Barkley being headhunted, the loan players being out of our reach when the loan is finished and we are back to a smaller squad, etc,etc, its never ending.
I'm just sad about it all.
I do not think that Barkley will be sold this winter. But just to play along, supposed it did happen. The thing that really really gets me is that we would use the money simply to pay interest on outstanding loans and maybe reduce the debt a little. We would not buy new players (well not for 20 millions anyway but for 3 or 4 at most, if we're lucky). We would not use that money to rebuild Goodison. It would go straight to the banks. What kind of business model is that?
Think there is an element of truth in the rumour as Chelski have got ex-Everton scout. He has been nabbed from us recently becaus of his talent to find top younsters like Barkley & Rooney who he found for Everton. So he would have some inside information on Barkley
Peter, there is not an element of truth in it at all. Utter shite.
Just a simple query,
How much would it take to get the total debt cleared?
How much would it take to get the total debt cleared?
If it saves the Club, of course he must be sold!
Gossip in a newspaper and then some of us panic. Get a grip!
Barkley is our only real chance of replacing Arteta, and he's 12 years younger. Rejoice at that.
Barkley is our only real chance of replacing Arteta, and he's 12 years younger. Rejoice at that.
Peter Laing. Everton are a selling club - fact not fiction.
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As are Man U, selling Ronaldo to one of its biggest rivals.
This summer has certainly changed our club. Before, who had we sold whom we wanted to keep in the past five years? Lescott and Pienaar. Who else? Doesn't sound much like a selling club.
We await to see where things go with the rest of the core squad. Will Arteta be the first of many? Or the only one? we'll see.
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As are Man U, selling Ronaldo to one of its biggest rivals.
This summer has certainly changed our club. Before, who had we sold whom we wanted to keep in the past five years? Lescott and Pienaar. Who else? Doesn't sound much like a selling club.
We await to see where things go with the rest of the core squad. Will Arteta be the first of many? Or the only one? we'll see.
"How much would it take to get the total debt cleared?"
----------------
From what I understand, the sales of players (not including Arteta) and the training ground will have cleared one of our debts. It was £17 million and was to be paid down between 2011 and 2013.
The other debts I was aware of before this short-term securitisation deal was the £25 million mortgage and a £5 million overdraft. The former is an annual cost of about £2.7 million, the latter an overdraft it would be worth paying off. I imagine the permanent removal of Arteta's wages means that could be paid down. We will have to ensure a rigid pay policy from now on. No £75k a week for anyone.
Unfortunately we have some unusual costs for a club, such as paying for safety certificates each year on an ancient ground, and renting a training facility (nearly £2m/year all told).
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From what I understand, the sales of players (not including Arteta) and the training ground will have cleared one of our debts. It was £17 million and was to be paid down between 2011 and 2013.
The other debts I was aware of before this short-term securitisation deal was the £25 million mortgage and a £5 million overdraft. The former is an annual cost of about £2.7 million, the latter an overdraft it would be worth paying off. I imagine the permanent removal of Arteta's wages means that could be paid down. We will have to ensure a rigid pay policy from now on. No £75k a week for anyone.
Unfortunately we have some unusual costs for a club, such as paying for safety certificates each year on an ancient ground, and renting a training facility (nearly £2m/year all told).
From what I understand the sales of players (not including Arteta) and the training ground [over the last 18 months I mean] will have cleared one of our debts. It was £17 million and was to be paid down between 2011 and 2013.
Jeremy #2, I'd agree with you if the £20 million could be spent on new player but we know it won't.
Peter #26 "the ability to compete in the transfer market which we cannot is being surpassed by others including those with mighty wealth and gargantuan financial power."
And it's particularly annoying that those other clubs are Stoke and Sunderland!
And it's particularly annoying that those other clubs are Stoke and Sunderland!
Paper Talk.
Well firstly, there's no real point in sweating over it until the next transfer window at the very earliest.
However we should ALL now know (and if not now when?) that under the current regime, anyone we have who is halfway decent, if a target, WILL go if the money is 'right'.
It really is that simple.
Fact: Arteta, Pienaar, Rooney, Lescott were sold NOT because they were thought not good enough or surplus to requirements, but because banks wanted money.
Fact: Until BK and his merry band of hopeless shit-bags goes, this will continue to be the case.
When Berkley/Fellaini/whoever goes, we will be entitled to be disappointed but NOT surprised
(by the way, I'd play whoever instead of Neville every time)
However we should ALL now know (and if not now when?) that under the current regime, anyone we have who is halfway decent, if a target, WILL go if the money is 'right'.
It really is that simple.
Fact: Arteta, Pienaar, Rooney, Lescott were sold NOT because they were thought not good enough or surplus to requirements, but because banks wanted money.
Fact: Until BK and his merry band of hopeless shit-bags goes, this will continue to be the case.
When Berkley/Fellaini/whoever goes, we will be entitled to be disappointed but NOT surprised
(by the way, I'd play whoever instead of Neville every time)
Eugene # 41. I thought that Arteta, Pienaar, Rooney and Lescott were sold because they wanted to leave, for more money in the case of Lescott and Pienaar and to play Champions league football for the other two.
Everton are a selling club, not to replace but to survive, unless the entire board changes neither will that.
Were Doooooomed I tell ye, were all doooooomed! Bloody hell shall I reach for the prozac?
I swear that this website should carry a government health warning. I don't blame the owners as they are just providing the stage for us to contribute our collective thoughts. But, sometimes reading bad news after bad news after bad news doesn't half wear you down sometimes.
The alternative is to make like the Ostrich, yes, thats exactly what I am going to do, for my own sanity. Now lets see if we can stuff West Brom tonight because if we don't I will be opening up toffeeweb with one eye closed tomorrow and the other hiding behind my fingers.
I swear that this website should carry a government health warning. I don't blame the owners as they are just providing the stage for us to contribute our collective thoughts. But, sometimes reading bad news after bad news after bad news doesn't half wear you down sometimes.
The alternative is to make like the Ostrich, yes, thats exactly what I am going to do, for my own sanity. Now lets see if we can stuff West Brom tonight because if we don't I will be opening up toffeeweb with one eye closed tomorrow and the other hiding behind my fingers.
£20M for Ross Barkley? If Arteta goes for 10, then I think double that for a youngster with 5 matches under his belt is pretty good business.
I'd take their hand off for £20M.
I'd take their hand off for £20M.
Steve (42) - Of course players (given the choice!) want more money and Champions League and big fat 60-grand watches and 200-grand cars and stupid tasteless gaffs 'designed' by themselves.
But generally they're not sold because of what THEY want.
We needed the cash - they went, end of story.
That it may have suited them was NOT why they went.
It is a stone cold fact that we don't have a pot to piss in and consequently anyone we have who can 'play a bit', can (and almost certainly will) be plundered by those with huge, solid gold, diamond-encrusted piss-pots.
But generally they're not sold because of what THEY want.
We needed the cash - they went, end of story.
That it may have suited them was NOT why they went.
It is a stone cold fact that we don't have a pot to piss in and consequently anyone we have who can 'play a bit', can (and almost certainly will) be plundered by those with huge, solid gold, diamond-encrusted piss-pots.
Eugene#46 when a player puts in a transfer request, he goes. simples. It's player power and it doesn't just affect Everton-the bigger problem is of course is why do they want to leave, and we all know the reason.
And as for Barkley; to paraphrase GB Shaw, there's only one thing worse than teams wanting your players, is teams not wanting your players
And as for Barkley; to paraphrase GB Shaw, there's only one thing worse than teams wanting your players, is teams not wanting your players
I think that losing Mick Docherty to Chelsea is more concerning than the nonsense being written about Barkley.
We will need people of the quality of Docherty, to spot the likes of Coleman and Vellios, as we can't afford to buy top-drawer players.
We will need people of the quality of Docherty, to spot the likes of Coleman and Vellios, as we can't afford to buy top-drawer players.
David Hallwood (47) you say..
"Eugene#46 when a player puts in a transfer request, he goes. simples".
Well actually not so 'simples' (pur-LEASE!) because if it was, Modric would now be at Chelsea....wouldn't he?
The reason he's still at Spurs and Lescott is at City, is because Spurs (unlike us) don't have the bank manager peeping through their chairman's letter box saying..
"Er..I know you're in there sir, I can see your legs sticking out from behind the large scaled-down model of the boy's pen".
Oh and if you're going to paraphrase, paraphrase the right author.
(clue: bet there's a portrait of you in your attic that..er..agrees with me!)
"Eugene#46 when a player puts in a transfer request, he goes. simples".
Well actually not so 'simples' (pur-LEASE!) because if it was, Modric would now be at Chelsea....wouldn't he?
The reason he's still at Spurs and Lescott is at City, is because Spurs (unlike us) don't have the bank manager peeping through their chairman's letter box saying..
"Er..I know you're in there sir, I can see your legs sticking out from behind the large scaled-down model of the boy's pen".
Oh and if you're going to paraphrase, paraphrase the right author.
(clue: bet there's a portrait of you in your attic that..er..agrees with me!)
That Oscar Wilde was a right clever bastard!
Not as smart as Edward Carson!
Oscar Wilde it is then; well I'll be buggered! The Modric episode is the exception rather than the rule. If a player is unhappy let him go or pay him shit loads more money a la Rooney (at man U). But recently Fabregas,Nasri, Ronaldo, Raul Meireles, Torres etc have asked for transfers from Sky 4 clubs, none of them are not seen as selling clubs. As I stated complain about the reasons why they wanted to leave, not the fact they left.
Its only a rumour......hopefully talk of renewing Moyes' 3m a year contract, 2 years before it is even up, is also just a rumour!
David (51) my point is simple.
Chelsea, a club with money to burn, were turned down by Spurs BECAUSE Spurs aren't financially in the shite.
They wanted to keep the player and..did.
It was the CLUB who made the call, not the player.
Because of OUR 'finances', we have no such luxury.
It is our board's uselessness that is currently dictating who at Everton stays and who goes (ie: anyone shite or average we probably don't have to 'worry' about. Anyone who can control a ball with less than 5 touches, we probably do).
You talk about the players who moaned and then left?
True, BUT.....for how much?
You think Ronaldo was going to leave Utd for fuck all coz HE wasn't happy?
He left so he got his move but ONLY coz Utd got 70 mill or whatever (fantastic business!)
Yes of course players moan for moves and are not 'happy' but they're like idiot-children and their moods and opinions change with the wind from week to week.
Prediction: Drenthe (currently happy as a sand-boy and full of how great life at Everton is) will, before crimbo, be arrested/narked/vanish/moan/slag Moyes/whatever.
Hope I'm wrong.
Chelsea, a club with money to burn, were turned down by Spurs BECAUSE Spurs aren't financially in the shite.
They wanted to keep the player and..did.
It was the CLUB who made the call, not the player.
Because of OUR 'finances', we have no such luxury.
It is our board's uselessness that is currently dictating who at Everton stays and who goes (ie: anyone shite or average we probably don't have to 'worry' about. Anyone who can control a ball with less than 5 touches, we probably do).
You talk about the players who moaned and then left?
True, BUT.....for how much?
You think Ronaldo was going to leave Utd for fuck all coz HE wasn't happy?
He left so he got his move but ONLY coz Utd got 70 mill or whatever (fantastic business!)
Yes of course players moan for moves and are not 'happy' but they're like idiot-children and their moods and opinions change with the wind from week to week.
Prediction: Drenthe (currently happy as a sand-boy and full of how great life at Everton is) will, before crimbo, be arrested/narked/vanish/moan/slag Moyes/whatever.
Hope I'm wrong.
Chelsea wasted £50mil on Torres, so why wouldn't they take a £20mil punt on one of the best teenage prospects in the country?
Tedious nonsense from the papers and reactionary twaddle from you Russ I'm afraid.
IF IF IF...if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle!
IF IF IF...if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle!
We need the cash - if a bid comes in I doubt we'll be able to say no. I'm coping, just.
Chris J,
What if your auntie used to be your uncle?
What if your auntie used to be your uncle?
She could join a circus?
I did think, at first glance, that £20,000,000 would represent a good price for the kid.
This rumor or whatever it is may well come to nothing, they most often do.
The trouble with players been targeted by other interested parties is what represents a decent sale, I almost fell of my chair when Liverfools paid Newcastle United £35,000,000 for Carroll, and Torres arrived in West London for much more than even that.
Money, transfers and sales sometimes are getting out of hand I feel, I woke up in a sweat the other night that Bayern Munich had offered £90,000,000 for Hibbert and a pack of out of date Bratwursts..
This rumor or whatever it is may well come to nothing, they most often do.
The trouble with players been targeted by other interested parties is what represents a decent sale, I almost fell of my chair when Liverfools paid Newcastle United £35,000,000 for Carroll, and Torres arrived in West London for much more than even that.
Money, transfers and sales sometimes are getting out of hand I feel, I woke up in a sweat the other night that Bayern Munich had offered £90,000,000 for Hibbert and a pack of out of date Bratwursts..
What everyone seems to be missing here is that we need to rake in £20 million every year to break even. So, if it isn't Ross Barkley, it will be someone else. Unless we win the euro millions, we will have to carry on in this vain. Heartbreaking........
"But there is no smoke without fire."
Yes there is ? friggin' loads of it every day in the papers.
Get a grip.
Yes there is ? friggin' loads of it every day in the papers.
Get a grip.
Sell Rodwell. Our "Local Boy made Good" in the Rooney sense isn't going to happen. Rodwell is what he is.
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1 Posted 20/09/2011 at 16:18:47
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Accept that he and others will go to pay off the mess that twat Kenwright and his cronies have got us into.
Worse scenario for us is. If Wenger gets the boot sometime soon then they will come sniffing for Moyes to steady their ship for this season.