Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Xbox... or the game?
77 Comments: Saturday lunch was a new one for me....and a new low.....
I normally start reading and viewing as much info as I can when I know Everton are on live. I dislike Sky as a concept but cannot bring myself to cancel subscription as it's first class as a production. Love the build up and love the questions that build to a peak 15 minutes prior. Who will we play, in what positions, who should we be scared of, how will the game progress, what incidents may occur.......All part of the day.
And an early kick off starts my weekend off good.
Suffice and sad to say but Saturday didn't happen for me.
I recently purchased the fine Batman: Arkham City for my Xbox..........and I decided that would be more interesting....
As the game approached I found myself thinking "Ah ok, just a few more minutes and I'll turn it over and watch game".
To my horror as kick off time passed I found myself more interested in what I was playing....and less interested in us playing......
What amounted from just a few more minutes....became "Ah I'll catch 2nd half of first half".....then "I'll see last ten minutes of first half, set me up for 2nd".....then "right 2nd half in it's full".....then "last half of 2nd".
In total, I watched the last 5 minutes.........and regretted stalling my progress on the Xbox.....
Afterwards I was questioning myself..... Why would an Xbox game do this to me?
(For those of that persuasion, it is a quality production).... However the conclusion was that I just wasn't excited by the alternative.
I KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE GAME NOW, DIRE PREDICTABLE OFFERINGS AND LITTLE EXCITEMENT. I CAN CALL THE FORMATION THE LINE-UP AND THE TEDIOUS DRIVEL ? THAT IS 100% WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
I'd say that's pretty damning on the leadership of our once great club that a form of entertainment is no longer...........entertaining.
Mark Yeomans, Posted 07/11/2011 at 12:31:43
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I thought people weren't watching because of the recession not because we are boring and predictable?
Always have to watch it regardless. The frustrating thing is we know what we're going to be served up, we know what formation, style of play and substitutions we're going to make but you continue to watch in the hope that you could be wrong. If we can see what we're going to do then surely an opposing coach can pick holes in our predictable plan.
I'm not a staunch "Moyes Out" nor am i great admirer of him but at the moment his whole negative and downbeat demeanour is draining my enthusiam and his apparent inability to use tactical knowledge to enforce change in a game is getting to point where his position of manager of our great football club should be questioned.
On paper our upcoming fixtures for Nov/Dec look reasonably winnable (Arsenal aside) however this current set up does not inspire confidence.
I'm not a staunch "Moyes Out" nor am i great admirer of him but at the moment his whole negative and downbeat demeanour is draining my enthusiam and his apparent inability to use tactical knowledge to enforce change in a game is getting to point where his position of manager of our great football club should be questioned.
On paper our upcoming fixtures for Nov/Dec look reasonably winnable (Arsenal aside) however this current set up does not inspire confidence.
As Anthony said - always have to watch regardless. I simply don't have the £ to watch us live as I would want to so when we're on TV it's brilliant - only because Sky don't have the buffering issues that (hypothetically speaking) a site like iraqgoals must have ;0)
Mostly I watch and am incredibly frustrated at what I see but it's all about the next moment, when I truly believe we'll turn it round... til the next time :)
Love Everton and always will.
Mostly I watch and am incredibly frustrated at what I see but it's all about the next moment, when I truly believe we'll turn it round... til the next time :)
Love Everton and always will.
poor form I stayed up til 1:30 am in Australia to watch what ever happens you should follow liverpool.
I think the 'glory hunting' Everton supporters left a couple of decades ago, Kevin.
Mark
You speak the truth, as easy as it is to put the boot in this is the real problem - young people have other things to do than be arsing around with some decrepit institution.
If football is becoming about global attraction wtf is this club up to if even it's own support can't bear to watch.
Well said Mark, it's indefensible shite.
You speak the truth, as easy as it is to put the boot in this is the real problem - young people have other things to do than be arsing around with some decrepit institution.
If football is becoming about global attraction wtf is this club up to if even it's own support can't bear to watch.
Well said Mark, it's indefensible shite.
As always, as any poster should be, i welcome all feedbacks. The beauty of the game is the differing opinions, tis what makes it. Just a couple of ripostes:
Kevin @ 1 = Glory hunting? Jesus...if I was that why am i an Everton fan???!!! I'm 32 and saw 1 FA Cup. Please explain? My point is the predictability of the team set-up and the lack of having a go.
Alex @ 6 = Thank you (sums up my above comment)
Trevor @ 7 = Aye, concerning thing is I'm 32 so if the mid age guys are losing the will...then god help the kids.
In summary, I expected some negative feedback. Im died in the wool blue as the rest of us. BUT I'LL SAY IT AGAIN......im not protesting against the result....tis the manner of the predictability of the way we are set up to achieve just that....thats the grate.....
Kevin @ 1 = Glory hunting? Jesus...if I was that why am i an Everton fan???!!! I'm 32 and saw 1 FA Cup. Please explain? My point is the predictability of the team set-up and the lack of having a go.
Alex @ 6 = Thank you (sums up my above comment)
Trevor @ 7 = Aye, concerning thing is I'm 32 so if the mid age guys are losing the will...then god help the kids.
In summary, I expected some negative feedback. Im died in the wool blue as the rest of us. BUT I'LL SAY IT AGAIN......im not protesting against the result....tis the manner of the predictability of the way we are set up to achieve just that....thats the grate.....
"Glory hunting supporter". Kevin, I think that Toffeeweb should have some sort of annual award, for best post,funniest comment etc. You know what, I nominate that one. Glory hunting Evertonians. Brilliant.
cheers andy for that @ 9
Oh...and I am a kopite n'all aye......daft shout kevin....
Oh...and I am a kopite n'all aye......daft shout kevin....
Mark,
I think "riposte," flatters you greatly.
This is what we know:
You decided that an X-Box game would be "more interesting," than following Everton, as you could predict the formation & fully expected "drivel."
Does the phrase: Through thick & thin," resonate with you at all?
Because what you missed was an Everton side that enjoyed more possession than their hosts, and racked up more goal attempts - playing away from from, against a side 13 places above us in the league.
Because you didn't think we'd win - you didn't watch. By implication, you are glory-hunting, selective, consumer fan.
I think "riposte," flatters you greatly.
This is what we know:
You decided that an X-Box game would be "more interesting," than following Everton, as you could predict the formation & fully expected "drivel."
Does the phrase: Through thick & thin," resonate with you at all?
Because what you missed was an Everton side that enjoyed more possession than their hosts, and racked up more goal attempts - playing away from from, against a side 13 places above us in the league.
Because you didn't think we'd win - you didn't watch. By implication, you are glory-hunting, selective, consumer fan.
Kevin Id leave it, your talking bollocks
Jesus Kevin........are you not gettin any......? trouble at home...........?
Again...i implore you to re-read the original post.....I DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE RESULT........so why say I didn't watch because I didn't think we would win?!!!!
I am making a post of the predictability of our set up / player positions / non entity of substitutions / lack of using what we have
Christ.....I didn't mean to offend
....but you need a holiday...and quick
Again...i implore you to re-read the original post.....I DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE RESULT........so why say I didn't watch because I didn't think we would win?!!!!
I am making a post of the predictability of our set up / player positions / non entity of substitutions / lack of using what we have
Christ.....I didn't mean to offend
....but you need a holiday...and quick
Great post and Great game!
The predictability of Everton under Moyes has started to finally reach breaking point with me.
Like you I am left wondering why watch something that is gonna be boring to the extreme!
The predictability of Everton under Moyes has started to finally reach breaking point with me.
Like you I am left wondering why watch something that is gonna be boring to the extreme!
Mark,
You come on an Evertonian website to tell fellow Blues that you chose to play "Batman," rather than watch Everton.
What do you want, a hug?
You come on an Evertonian website to tell fellow Blues that you chose to play "Batman," rather than watch Everton.
What do you want, a hug?
Andy,
Please expand upon why my aversion to fickle Evertonians is bollocks.
Please expand upon why my aversion to fickle Evertonians is bollocks.
Oh, and Mark (10).
I didn't call you a Kopite. It was Simon who referenced Liverpool.
I didn't call you a Kopite. It was Simon who referenced Liverpool.
Kevin,fickle is a good description. Glory hunter isn't.
Kev did I say you called me a kopite?! I think not
This is nothing to do with being fickle....there are more and more of us who are not upset that we aren't winning (we have no money we know that).....we are upset as to the manner of the way we lose..........i.e. why are we not even trying to do something different. why do we have players we have bought in and not play. i.e. the curious case of the argentine.....
You didnt call me fickle....you called me a glory hunter....
This is nothing to do with being fickle....there are more and more of us who are not upset that we aren't winning (we have no money we know that).....we are upset as to the manner of the way we lose..........i.e. why are we not even trying to do something different. why do we have players we have bought in and not play. i.e. the curious case of the argentine.....
You didnt call me fickle....you called me a glory hunter....
Kevin
You're doing the stats thing so beloved of Moyes supporters, then inferring the "better fan" playground shite, again beloved of the Moyes boys.
Stats will never replace judgement - Mark is right - we're shit to watch and predictable.
You're doing the stats thing so beloved of Moyes supporters, then inferring the "better fan" playground shite, again beloved of the Moyes boys.
Stats will never replace judgement - Mark is right - we're shit to watch and predictable.
Absolutely agree. Sure we've played some top clubs in recent weeks but we have never looked like matching strides with them when in past seasons we gave a good account of ouselves. Even the ''other clubs'' we have played generally matched or exceeded Everton in most departments. It would now appear that most other managers know Moyes strategy and combat it quite easily and they are also well aware he does not have a reliable plan''B'' when they conced the first goal.
Sure you can point to lack of money,bad luck and poor referreeing but most other clubs have their fair share of the same.
Other teams picked up good buys in the off season who are doing well. Newcastle lost players and didn't spend a penny of the big fee they got for Carroll but look how well they are doing even beating Everton without 2 of their stars.
Moyes is past his ''sell by date'' as far as Everton are concerned but Kenwright doesn't seem to have realised it.
Sure you can point to lack of money,bad luck and poor referreeing but most other clubs have their fair share of the same.
Other teams picked up good buys in the off season who are doing well. Newcastle lost players and didn't spend a penny of the big fee they got for Carroll but look how well they are doing even beating Everton without 2 of their stars.
Moyes is past his ''sell by date'' as far as Everton are concerned but Kenwright doesn't seem to have realised it.
Has anyone else also noticed how the level of praise Moyes receives from other managers seems inexplicably high this year? I personally think they're all playing him like a fiddle...
As instructed, I?ve re-read your post and I?m still not buying it, Mark.
?Dire, predictable offerings and little excitement. I can call the formation the line-up and the tedious drivel.?
Like you, I could have predicted the predictability of our set-up, but then, I could also have predicted that Newcastle would go 4-4-2, with Ba & Best up front. Injuries permitting, I can also predict that Barcelona will deploy Messi in an advanced role, with Villa nearby. There is not a single team in the world of which supporters, rivals, pundits & neutrals couldn?t make a relatively informed prediction about.
Everton were not dire. 55% possession and 14 goal attempts away from home is not ?tedious drivel.? Nor was there any lack of "having a go." Your prediction was wrong.
If you wish to turn your back on Everton in favour of computer games, that is your call, but don't call it support. It's deliberate avoidance. Explain to the thousands of Blues who trekked up there, why you willfully chose to ignore the team.
Then answer these questions: Would you refuse to watch Everton in a cup final on account of being able to fairly accurately predict the team?
Or would you suddenly start watching if Moyes tactically surprised you by deploying Hibbert up front?
?Dire, predictable offerings and little excitement. I can call the formation the line-up and the tedious drivel.?
Like you, I could have predicted the predictability of our set-up, but then, I could also have predicted that Newcastle would go 4-4-2, with Ba & Best up front. Injuries permitting, I can also predict that Barcelona will deploy Messi in an advanced role, with Villa nearby. There is not a single team in the world of which supporters, rivals, pundits & neutrals couldn?t make a relatively informed prediction about.
Everton were not dire. 55% possession and 14 goal attempts away from home is not ?tedious drivel.? Nor was there any lack of "having a go." Your prediction was wrong.
If you wish to turn your back on Everton in favour of computer games, that is your call, but don't call it support. It's deliberate avoidance. Explain to the thousands of Blues who trekked up there, why you willfully chose to ignore the team.
Then answer these questions: Would you refuse to watch Everton in a cup final on account of being able to fairly accurately predict the team?
Or would you suddenly start watching if Moyes tactically surprised you by deploying Hibbert up front?
Mark, have been a Toffee for over 45 years. I've seen highs and lows so I for one would always question my "Fickleability"
I know what you're saying because my boys are now grown up but their Thunderbirds videos still adorn my shelves.
Halfway through games these days I find one eye surreptitiously wandering over to said shelves and thinking should I watch a vid and find out if Scott ever had sex with Tin Tin behind Alans back.
Alas I stick with the game and just like I know how Thunderbirds always ended up and Everton dont, i.e. success,
I sometimes wish I'd bought a few Joe 90 videos.
I know what you're saying because my boys are now grown up but their Thunderbirds videos still adorn my shelves.
Halfway through games these days I find one eye surreptitiously wandering over to said shelves and thinking should I watch a vid and find out if Scott ever had sex with Tin Tin behind Alans back.
Alas I stick with the game and just like I know how Thunderbirds always ended up and Everton dont, i.e. success,
I sometimes wish I'd bought a few Joe 90 videos.
"Oh and I'm a kopite n'all aye....daft shout kevin..."
To date, there is only ONE "Kevin," on this thread, Mark.
So who else was that comment (post 10) aimed at?
Trevor: "Better fan playground shite." - I'm no better than anyone. I just watch my team rather than blank them in favour of "Batman."
To date, there is only ONE "Kevin," on this thread, Mark.
So who else was that comment (post 10) aimed at?
Trevor: "Better fan playground shite." - I'm no better than anyone. I just watch my team rather than blank them in favour of "Batman."
Now you're havin' a go at Batman!!!
Fuckin' "Robin" apologist!
Fuckin' "Robin" apologist!
"Holy Mackrel !"
Kopite and Glory-hunting points aside, what worries me is my apathy regarding the team lately.
During my usual early Saturday chats with other parent's whilst watching my lad in football training it was agreed that Everton had come through a tough run of games, (a Liverpool and ManU fan in the mix), and that Newcastle's run would come to an end.
Two hours later I was sat watching the second half and just didn't see us getting anything. Worse was the fact I simply switched off at the final whistle, shrugged my shoulders and then figured I'd do some gardening. It has got to the point where I'm not that fussed whether we win or lose these days, and I've a feeling I'm not the only one...
During my usual early Saturday chats with other parent's whilst watching my lad in football training it was agreed that Everton had come through a tough run of games, (a Liverpool and ManU fan in the mix), and that Newcastle's run would come to an end.
Two hours later I was sat watching the second half and just didn't see us getting anything. Worse was the fact I simply switched off at the final whistle, shrugged my shoulders and then figured I'd do some gardening. It has got to the point where I'm not that fussed whether we win or lose these days, and I've a feeling I'm not the only one...
Kev did you know Commisioner Gordan got the top job at FIFA? Yep, and he's got a red (aarrrgh) telephone that throbs straight to Platini when England want to put the poppy sign on the kit?
To be honest I dont agree with Mark that we were predictable.
I could never have predicted playing Seamus Coleman on the wrong side of the pitch and playing the right-footed Hetinga on the left side of defence instead of Distin.
Moyes is one clever bunny. Bet Alan Pardew was shitting himself for the first few minutes wondering how the fuck to counter that AND the sideways passing anti-football from our "World Class" coach.
I could never have predicted playing Seamus Coleman on the wrong side of the pitch and playing the right-footed Hetinga on the left side of defence instead of Distin.
Moyes is one clever bunny. Bet Alan Pardew was shitting himself for the first few minutes wondering how the fuck to counter that AND the sideways passing anti-football from our "World Class" coach.
Kevin # 23, I think the predictability Mark infers is similar to my own thoughts.
It goes something like this; Rodwell has the ball, he passes sidewards, Jags has the ball, he gives it a 50 yard boot.
A high ball comes in and Howard is glued to his line, Hibbert finishes a good run with a nothing cross, Osman wastes a clear cut opening with a powder puff shot.
Who ever takes our throw ins waits until all our potential receivers have been closed down, our corners if they beat the first man.are delivered into the keepers welcoming hands.
Coleman gets the ball and imediately looks for a brick wall to run into,
It goes something like this; Rodwell has the ball, he passes sidewards, Jags has the ball, he gives it a 50 yard boot.
A high ball comes in and Howard is glued to his line, Hibbert finishes a good run with a nothing cross, Osman wastes a clear cut opening with a powder puff shot.
Who ever takes our throw ins waits until all our potential receivers have been closed down, our corners if they beat the first man.are delivered into the keepers welcoming hands.
Coleman gets the ball and imediately looks for a brick wall to run into,
It's rather simplistic to critiicise Mark, as Kevin & Simon have done. However, this type of post is not that unusual of late. It's increasingly common for people to comment on not renewing season tickets, not attending as often, not bothering to watch Everton on the telly, just not being as bothered anymore.
This apathy, lack of passion, loss of hope or whatever you may call it seems commonly to be attributed to the combination of our general style of play under the current manager & the sense of having a Board seemingly incapable of delivering, well anything - be it a stadium, a plan, a sense of direction, money, any kind of leadership.
I think a lot of supporters are affected to varying degrees by this malaise that seems to hang about the club of recent times. I'd love to think things will soon turn 'round both on & off the park so as to generate a bit more enthusiasm all 'round. We certainly all deserve some excitement & some hope.
This apathy, lack of passion, loss of hope or whatever you may call it seems commonly to be attributed to the combination of our general style of play under the current manager & the sense of having a Board seemingly incapable of delivering, well anything - be it a stadium, a plan, a sense of direction, money, any kind of leadership.
I think a lot of supporters are affected to varying degrees by this malaise that seems to hang about the club of recent times. I'd love to think things will soon turn 'round both on & off the park so as to generate a bit more enthusiasm all 'round. We certainly all deserve some excitement & some hope.
Strange how these "apathetic, passionless," supporters frequent ToffeeWeb on a daily basis to talk about Everton, Dennis.
Oh, and John Cox, I think Blatter The Penguin, Platini, in fact the whole Legion Of Doom occupying FIFA & UEFA, need a good "Ka-Pow!" "Sock!" & "Zap!" for their consistently zany & dodgy antics.
If only I can locate my ludicrously camp gimp suit..
Oh, and John Cox, I think Blatter The Penguin, Platini, in fact the whole Legion Of Doom occupying FIFA & UEFA, need a good "Ka-Pow!" "Sock!" & "Zap!" for their consistently zany & dodgy antics.
If only I can locate my ludicrously camp gimp suit..
Kevin, have a look to your left when reading my comments.
It's "Jon" in a zany kind of way ;-)
It's "Jon" in a zany kind of way ;-)
Stephen @22 "Has anyone else also noticed how the level of praise Moyes receives from other managers seems inexplicably high this year?"
I have noticed that too but I think as the pressure mounts on Moyes journalists will be asking opposition managers about their opinion of him more often. I think its safe to say as a person Moyes is quite likeable and fairly harmless so they are forced out of politeness to say nice things.
I have noticed that too but I think as the pressure mounts on Moyes journalists will be asking opposition managers about their opinion of him more often. I think its safe to say as a person Moyes is quite likeable and fairly harmless so they are forced out of politeness to say nice things.
Apologies, Jon, It was too late to rectify my error..
That pesky "H," is now banished!
That pesky "H," is now banished!
The evidence is in the stats this season.
Our smallest crowd was 31,576 with our largest crowd 39,510. That's a difference of around 8000 supporters choosing to not to go.
It is by far the biggest difference in min/max attendences in the whole league. I think this is evidence that many fans ar fed up. Only the other dissatisfied clubs record swinging attendences but nowhere near 8000!
http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html
Our smallest crowd was 31,576 with our largest crowd 39,510. That's a difference of around 8000 supporters choosing to not to go.
It is by far the biggest difference in min/max attendences in the whole league. I think this is evidence that many fans ar fed up. Only the other dissatisfied clubs record swinging attendences but nowhere near 8000!
http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html
As with all good humour, Dick, there is always an element of truth & there is plenty I agree with there; Often we are hard work to watch.
Could never turn my back on them though..
Could never turn my back on them though..
If those stats are true, Robbie, then the "Where were you when you were shit?" - chant at Chelsea fans, clearly apply to some of our own.
There's a reason why Ken Buckley refers to "The Faithful."
There's a reason why Ken Buckley refers to "The Faithful."
I'm sorry if I've upset you, Kevin, my original post was meant as the boreish tedium that watching these guys and set-up truly is.
I just feel numb I guess as I don't find watching the team interesting or exciting anymore. I'll always be a Blue as we all are but the tedium and predictability is surely the fault of the manager and board.
Again... Who is the Argentine? Why soddin have him on loan... Who is gueye? .... Why sign him.... Why have Vellios for half the game?
It just baffles me... Why have 'em on the books when, if it ain't working, you can't change shite?
I just feel numb I guess as I don't find watching the team interesting or exciting anymore. I'll always be a Blue as we all are but the tedium and predictability is surely the fault of the manager and board.
Again... Who is the Argentine? Why soddin have him on loan... Who is gueye? .... Why sign him.... Why have Vellios for half the game?
It just baffles me... Why have 'em on the books when, if it ain't working, you can't change shite?
I was embarassed listening to us against Man City. I watched in hope against Fulham. I switched off against Utd. I missed the defeat to the barcodes.
Whilst I understand the dejected nature of watching us I always hope we'll start playing with flair and get a couple of early goals. But when we don't and the other team attack us....when we start defending too deep and our chances to scoring diminish, then I know that it's unlikely we're going to win the game. It's at that point my frustration gets the better of me.
I notice a lot of critisism on here of Rodwell for his sideways passing. He keeps the ball and more than not he doesn't have an option to pass it to.
And therein lies the problem for me.
Whilst I understand the dejected nature of watching us I always hope we'll start playing with flair and get a couple of early goals. But when we don't and the other team attack us....when we start defending too deep and our chances to scoring diminish, then I know that it's unlikely we're going to win the game. It's at that point my frustration gets the better of me.
I notice a lot of critisism on here of Rodwell for his sideways passing. He keeps the ball and more than not he doesn't have an option to pass it to.
And therein lies the problem for me.
Mark there is nothing wrong with second-guessing the manager or complaining about his decisions.
It was the fact you chose "Batman," over Everton that baffled.
It was the fact you chose "Batman," over Everton that baffled.
Cant afford an Xbox, will a deck of cards do if i get bored. I know we all hate the way we are playing at the moment but i still have to watch, in the blood i suppose
When you watch Everton instead of playing on your Xbox do you put posts about it on gaming chatrooms?
Kevin its bollocks in the fact that if people are supporting Everton in the "gloryhunting role " then they are at the wrong club unless glory hunting is as you put it .. having superior possesion and goal attempts against the mighty barcodes.
Proof is in the pudding! Someone care to explain why attendances are about 4000-5000 down on average from last season? Plus the fact that both the liverpool and Manure games weren't sellouts? because it sure ain't down to fans getting bored of seeing BK's face shown on the jumbotron but more like a shite brand of football being served up, lame and negative tactics and poor use of substitutions!! These numbers will continue to fall under Davey boy!
Sorry fellas but Xbox..............I mean what are we talking about here ? Am I older than I realise ? No offence intended but I'd rather watch Accrington Stanley Reserves (with respect) than sit in front of a computer and act like a 10 year old.
Considering we haven't won a trophy in 16 years, I concede the point that "glory-hunting," is inaccurate. I agree with Andy Crooks that "fickle," is more apt & that is what I was driving at, Andy Coding.
Mark thinks our football is "dire, predictable, tedious drivel,"and it was this that prompted him to avoid the game.
By his implication, this style can not always be conducive to winning football matches.
Conversely, if we were playing in a free-flowing, high-tempo, swashbuckling style & it worked, would he dare miss a game? Or would he opt to stick with a Marvel comic X-Box derivative?
Most of us don't choose to support Everton because they entertain us, it's because the club in part defines our identity & is a lifelong subtext in our lives, through "thick & thin."
Consider how much the club is struggling on & off the field, then compare Mark's pick & choose mentality with the admirable dedication of Ken Buckley, travelling home & away regardless.
Mark thinks our football is "dire, predictable, tedious drivel,"and it was this that prompted him to avoid the game.
By his implication, this style can not always be conducive to winning football matches.
Conversely, if we were playing in a free-flowing, high-tempo, swashbuckling style & it worked, would he dare miss a game? Or would he opt to stick with a Marvel comic X-Box derivative?
Most of us don't choose to support Everton because they entertain us, it's because the club in part defines our identity & is a lifelong subtext in our lives, through "thick & thin."
Consider how much the club is struggling on & off the field, then compare Mark's pick & choose mentality with the admirable dedication of Ken Buckley, travelling home & away regardless.
Kevin, I think the point is, it's becoming less of our identity. I used to be Alan Clarke, Evertonian, married father of 2 etc. Now Evertonian sits a lot lower down the list of things I introduce myself as. In conversation with someone, I'd always look to bring up the topic of football so I could then talk about Everton. Now I actively avoid the topic of football.
You can stick your chest out, beat it and declare "Me, big Everton, Me not fickle" but apart from declaring yourself the bestest ever blue ever in the whole wide world, you should be trying to understand why so many fans are feeling so disenfranchised with Everton. Attendances are lower, spending at the club shop is down, season ticket sales are down and people like Mark and me to some extent aren't arsed about watching the same old Moyes drivel every week. I don't think blind faith is that much to be proud of.
I'm trying to work out still why I was so willing to watch Everton through Kendall's 3rd era and Smith's years yet I just can't be arsed now. The conclusion I come to is the board, the manager and the players don't seem to give a shit about the fans anymore so why should we give a shit about them?
You can stick your chest out, beat it and declare "Me, big Everton, Me not fickle" but apart from declaring yourself the bestest ever blue ever in the whole wide world, you should be trying to understand why so many fans are feeling so disenfranchised with Everton. Attendances are lower, spending at the club shop is down, season ticket sales are down and people like Mark and me to some extent aren't arsed about watching the same old Moyes drivel every week. I don't think blind faith is that much to be proud of.
I'm trying to work out still why I was so willing to watch Everton through Kendall's 3rd era and Smith's years yet I just can't be arsed now. The conclusion I come to is the board, the manager and the players don't seem to give a shit about the fans anymore so why should we give a shit about them?
Complete nonsense, Alan.
At no point did I declare myself "the bestest Blue ever in the whole wide world." Indeed I cited Ken Buckley as one of the most committed Blues you are ever likely to find. He goes to at least twice as many games as I do.
Football doesn't dominate your conversations - well that's the same for most people.Then you claim you "actively avoid the topic," yet here you are on a footballing forum!
I completely understand why there is disenfranchisement, and I alluded to it earlier. But I would never walk away, or even distance myself from the club - as that doesn't constitute support. You "can't be arsed." Why bother with ToffeeWeb then?
Then the laziest, most insincere cop-out of all: "The manager and the players don't seem to give a shit about the fans anymore."
SEEM?
How could you possibly know this?
Quit foot-stamping & prove that assertion.
At no point did I declare myself "the bestest Blue ever in the whole wide world." Indeed I cited Ken Buckley as one of the most committed Blues you are ever likely to find. He goes to at least twice as many games as I do.
Football doesn't dominate your conversations - well that's the same for most people.Then you claim you "actively avoid the topic," yet here you are on a footballing forum!
I completely understand why there is disenfranchisement, and I alluded to it earlier. But I would never walk away, or even distance myself from the club - as that doesn't constitute support. You "can't be arsed." Why bother with ToffeeWeb then?
Then the laziest, most insincere cop-out of all: "The manager and the players don't seem to give a shit about the fans anymore."
SEEM?
How could you possibly know this?
Quit foot-stamping & prove that assertion.
Kunal, the attendance on average is only down by less than 1200.
Last years avwerage was 36,039 and this year, so far, is 34,864.
Anyway, enough about Footy, what is Batman Arkhan City like? Is it worth buying or shall I wait until Christmas and get it as a present?
Last years avwerage was 36,039 and this year, so far, is 34,864.
Anyway, enough about Footy, what is Batman Arkhan City like? Is it worth buying or shall I wait until Christmas and get it as a present?
Kevin, people can support the club in any way they see fit, whether that be by listening on the radio or watching on the TV from Australia. It doesn't mean they have dropped all interest in the club.
I am not attending this year because I'm sick of the lack of investment and dirge football served up by Moyes and it's my way of protesting; Kenwright and his fellow men don't put their money in so why should I?
I am not attending this year because I'm sick of the lack of investment and dirge football served up by Moyes and it's my way of protesting; Kenwright and his fellow men don't put their money in so why should I?
Tony, we have just had the lowest gate at home to Man Utd in I think 18 years and also the lowest derby gate in how long? Generally at this time early stage of the season having played at home on the first game added to those two games above and Villa at home as well, we would be averaging 38,000, so your shout of crowds being down just 1200 is a load of bollocks.
Just wait till good ole January.
Just wait till good ole January.
Sorry, Paul, but have you have just stated that the indisputable fact of attendances, backed up by printed figures "is a load of bollocks"?
Fair enough I suppose, I can't argue with that, even if it is "bollocks"
The quote was, "Proof is in the pudding! Someone care to explain why attendances are about 4000-5000 down on average from last season"
This is proven to be "bollocks" but it's ok because you don't like the facts.
Fair enough I suppose, I can't argue with that, even if it is "bollocks"
The quote was, "Proof is in the pudding! Someone care to explain why attendances are about 4000-5000 down on average from last season"
This is proven to be "bollocks" but it's ok because you don't like the facts.
Kevin, just read back through all your posts, you seem fairly high and mighty about your fanatacism towards Everton. You're incredibly quick in your put downs towards anyone who doesn't share your fanaticism.
Perhaps you could come up with a scale about what makes someone the bestest blue ever in the whole wide world? Perhaps you could put Ken Buckley at the top, you just below and Mark right at the bottom. I think my position would sit on the scale somewhere equivalent to Everton's league position. I've given up my season ticket, I don't own the home and away shirt and I don't have a picture of Tim Cahill under my pillow. I think what really relegates me though is I don't have undying support for Moyes.
Perhaps you could come up with a scale about what makes someone the bestest blue ever in the whole wide world? Perhaps you could put Ken Buckley at the top, you just below and Mark right at the bottom. I think my position would sit on the scale somewhere equivalent to Everton's league position. I've given up my season ticket, I don't own the home and away shirt and I don't have a picture of Tim Cahill under my pillow. I think what really relegates me though is I don't have undying support for Moyes.
To be honest Alan, the opening poster has come on an Everton forum telling people that he purposely missed a game on telly to play a computer game.
I have to place some understanding on Kevin's views. If Mark had come on and just stated how much he was pissed off lately with the football, I doubt he would have received the same reception.
Anyway Mark!, it is worth buying?
I have to place some understanding on Kevin's views. If Mark had come on and just stated how much he was pissed off lately with the football, I doubt he would have received the same reception.
Anyway Mark!, it is worth buying?
Agreed Andy, people can support Everton in any way they see fit. That isn't the argument. The discussion centres around an individual who chose to ignore the team in favour of a computer game.
Alan Clarke,
I think you'll find that you compared me to a caveman in our very first interaction on this thread. Which means that the first put-down - between us, came from you. Then you ignored the debate & went puerile. So you'll have to forgive my "high and mighty," attitude.
Alan Clarke,
I think you'll find that you compared me to a caveman in our very first interaction on this thread. Which means that the first put-down - between us, came from you. Then you ignored the debate & went puerile. So you'll have to forgive my "high and mighty," attitude.
In a fit of pique a while ago I stated that I would never set foot in Goodison Park while Kenwright was still around. Utter nonsense of course. I'll be going much less this season and the reason is simple. My hours in work have been cut and I can't afford to. I'm quite sure many are in the same position.
Tony, the facts I know is those two biggest games at home saw a drop in nearly 6,000 fans. The Villa game has also been one of our bigger attendances sometimes clocking 38,000 plus and this year it was 32,700, these are facts mate, we have only played five games at home and three of those are usually our biggest attendances of the season in fact if you include the first game of the season, that makes four, as we usually see much higher than 35,000 for a first game of the season at home and despite these games we are still down.
Unless something dramatic like a takeover happens we will be lucky to clear 33,000 average.
My apologies for the bollocks shout, but you are clutching at straws claiming attendances are only down a bit when we have played our two biggest home games already.
Unless something dramatic like a takeover happens we will be lucky to clear 33,000 average.
My apologies for the bollocks shout, but you are clutching at straws claiming attendances are only down a bit when we have played our two biggest home games already.
Paul, at the end of the season it may well reflect a drop but Kunal said 5-6000 down on average.
I know I am being pedantic, but this is wrong. the average gate so far this season is only down 1, 175 on last seasons average.
Who's to say we might not have a surge after christmas, it may even drop off more. The pedantic side of me saw the number and the figures shown, confirm he was off.
If he said we were down 8000 in the Derby/ManUre game he would have been right but he didn't. He said on average
I know I am being pedantic, but this is wrong. the average gate so far this season is only down 1, 175 on last seasons average.
Who's to say we might not have a surge after christmas, it may even drop off more. The pedantic side of me saw the number and the figures shown, confirm he was off.
If he said we were down 8000 in the Derby/ManUre game he would have been right but he didn't. He said on average
It is irrelevant what the OP did instead of watching the game - the fact is that he is one of a growing number of fans who would rather do somethng else than watch the blues.
I'm a season ticket holder of 10 years. I travel a 280 mile round trip to every home game - but that does not make me 'better' than someone who attends once in a blue moon, or any 'worse' thank those who folllow home and away.
As someone has rightly said, the attendances at home games is dropping - that is because we don't have a compelling producet anymore; why would anyone pay to come and watch drab football?
I agree with the 'thick and thin' comment (above), but there is only so much 'thin' that you can put up with - I think we're in worrying times, both on the pitch and off.
, and it has to be said that this is due to the mis-management of the club / company (for all the reasons we've done to death before).
Will I renew for my 11th year at Goodison? £500 & travel is a lot.... Am I getting value for money? Hmmmm.....
I'm a season ticket holder of 10 years. I travel a 280 mile round trip to every home game - but that does not make me 'better' than someone who attends once in a blue moon, or any 'worse' thank those who folllow home and away.
As someone has rightly said, the attendances at home games is dropping - that is because we don't have a compelling producet anymore; why would anyone pay to come and watch drab football?
I agree with the 'thick and thin' comment (above), but there is only so much 'thin' that you can put up with - I think we're in worrying times, both on the pitch and off.
, and it has to be said that this is due to the mis-management of the club / company (for all the reasons we've done to death before).
Will I renew for my 11th year at Goodison? £500 & travel is a lot.... Am I getting value for money? Hmmmm.....
"Strange how these "apathetic, passionless," supporters frequent ToffeeWeb on a daily basis to talk about Everton, Dennis." Are they &, if so, is it, Kevin?
It's a challenge watching the Blues this year, in fact most years but these past few seasons have been the worst.
Even when the football was poor we would normally defend well and nick one, at least then you give thier fans a load of stick and go home happy you've mugged them, thats well gone.
The only thing keeping my hand in is the feeling that walking away when the club needs it's fans the most would be playing a tiny part in killing it.
Having said that playing on your computer over at least watching the match yet claiming to be a supporter is a joke!!! Your opinion on the club is as valid as Kevins or anybody else's but all Evertonians are not equal by a long stretch.
Even when the football was poor we would normally defend well and nick one, at least then you give thier fans a load of stick and go home happy you've mugged them, thats well gone.
The only thing keeping my hand in is the feeling that walking away when the club needs it's fans the most would be playing a tiny part in killing it.
Having said that playing on your computer over at least watching the match yet claiming to be a supporter is a joke!!! Your opinion on the club is as valid as Kevins or anybody else's but all Evertonians are not equal by a long stretch.
Dennis.
You said there was apathy & a lack of passion, If that were the case, ToffeeWeb would be redundant, surely?
You said there was apathy & a lack of passion, If that were the case, ToffeeWeb would be redundant, surely?
I watched the game on the XBOX. On ESPN3. Where does that leave me? :-)
Really, if you have the time and have the access, it's hard to NOT watch any game. Especially when alI I have to do is roll out of bed, turn on the TV / XBOX, make some coffee and sit down.
Must admit though it was tempting at 2-0 to go back to bed (8am here) ....
Really, if you have the time and have the access, it's hard to NOT watch any game. Especially when alI I have to do is roll out of bed, turn on the TV / XBOX, make some coffee and sit down.
Must admit though it was tempting at 2-0 to go back to bed (8am here) ....
I actually wrote "... this type of post is not that unusual of late. It's increasingly common for people to comment on not renewing season tickets, not attending as often, not bothering to watch Everton on the telly, just not being as bothered anymore.This apathy, lack of passion, loss of hope or whatever you may call it ..." What point are you trying to make? Are you saying that the type of comments I refer to are not increasingly common? If not then you obviously won't feel they indicate "apathy, lack of passion, loss of hope or whatever you may call it ...". If you agree with the initial premise but don't think it's an indication of "apathy" or "lack of passion", then perhaps you may feel it indicates a "loss of hope", however, if you feel none of those terms apply then whatever you would describe it as would probably be covered by "whatever you may call it".
As other's have pointed out, Dennis, attendances at Goodison are down this term. So the apathy you speak of may be true.Iwasn't questioning that anyway.
I simply found it ironic that people find the time to log-in to a EFC-centric football website to tell us about them not being "arsed," or "interested," in Everton or football.
I simply found it ironic that people find the time to log-in to a EFC-centric football website to tell us about them not being "arsed," or "interested," in Everton or football.
You're probably right, Kevin. Even when people post about their lack enthusiam for things Everton of late, it's clear that they're dismayed to find themselves feeling any kind of indifference towards the club. But, as others have mentioned, the lure of the club keeps drawing one back, whether to the match, the tv or the web. There's always that tiny glimmer of hope of better days, even if it isn't always clear how we may make progress.
If things are that bad that some supporters would rather play Batman than watch the game, God help us cos Modern Warfare 3 came out today...look out for the tumbleweek in the stands at our next home game.
I predict first home league gate less than 30,000.
And when assassins creed is released...
I predict first home league gate less than 30,000.
And when assassins creed is released...
"things are that bad that some supporters would rather play Batman than watch the game"
I actually watched the game dressed as Batman. Utility belt and everything. I stayed indoors like. 'Lucky outfit' my arse.
I actually watched the game dressed as Batman. Utility belt and everything. I stayed indoors like. 'Lucky outfit' my arse.
I think the reasons for the apathy now compared to the Smith era are simple.
Back then it was feasible with good management and some money to compete for the top prizes. So there was hope.
Moyes gave us real hope for a while. But that has now receded and the gap to the top looks insurmountable due to the finances involved.
Even a takeover wouldn't necessarily allow us to compete with the very top sides in England any more and as an Evertonian that is hard to swallow.
For some clubs midtable in the Premier League, or even just staying in the league is real success. For Everton that can never be the case. If we can't compete at the very top end what is the point of Everton Football Club?
Back then it was feasible with good management and some money to compete for the top prizes. So there was hope.
Moyes gave us real hope for a while. But that has now receded and the gap to the top looks insurmountable due to the finances involved.
Even a takeover wouldn't necessarily allow us to compete with the very top sides in England any more and as an Evertonian that is hard to swallow.
For some clubs midtable in the Premier League, or even just staying in the league is real success. For Everton that can never be the case. If we can't compete at the very top end what is the point of Everton Football Club?
Regarding the attendance at the United game.
Bear in mind it kicked off at mid-day and that is bound to have had an effect.
I was touch and go about going myself as I have commitments of a Saturday morning and as it happened I took my seat just after the start.
On a related point, we have not been "sold out" against United in many a year.
Bear in mind it kicked off at mid-day and that is bound to have had an effect.
I was touch and go about going myself as I have commitments of a Saturday morning and as it happened I took my seat just after the start.
On a related point, we have not been "sold out" against United in many a year.
The biggest thing annoying me at the moment is the fact that I am no longer bothered.
It used to be an Everton defeat left me feeling numb and empty and it was a few days before I felw OK again.
Now I am over it within an hour.
Our once great but still beloved club is dying of apathy.
It used to be an Everton defeat left me feeling numb and empty and it was a few days before I felw OK again.
Now I am over it within an hour.
Our once great but still beloved club is dying of apathy.
I put KILL BILL in the hope that someone would put Kenwright to the sword.
ahh Batman and Robin and a joke from the riddler
Why are Everton like a possum?
Because they play dead at home and get killed on the road
Why are Everton like a possum?
Because they play dead at home and get killed on the road
It would take a hell of a lot for me to miss a game, regardless of how well/badly we are playing. It would have to be something like the birth of my child, death in the family etc.
One day, Everton's time will come again and I will be just as happy to watch us go through the bad times as I will the good times because that's what you do when you're in love, right?
I have only been alive long enough to see us win the FA Cup in 1995 and there is still no feeling that compares to the utter joy that watching Everton win something gave me, but don't tell the wife that!!
One day, Everton's time will come again and I will be just as happy to watch us go through the bad times as I will the good times because that's what you do when you're in love, right?
I have only been alive long enough to see us win the FA Cup in 1995 and there is still no feeling that compares to the utter joy that watching Everton win something gave me, but don't tell the wife that!!
Chris, my old dad once told me that if it wasn't for the bad days, one wouldn't know what a good day was.
You are right. We will have our day in the sun again and it will be all the sweeter because of the suffering in the bad days.
But the bad days cement our love of the club much more than the good days ever canl.
I have been there when we won the title on three occasions and was at Rotterdam and Wembley when pots were lifted.
But Wimbledon Day is the only game when I cried tears of joy at the end.
You are right. We will have our day in the sun again and it will be all the sweeter because of the suffering in the bad days.
But the bad days cement our love of the club much more than the good days ever canl.
I have been there when we won the title on three occasions and was at Rotterdam and Wembley when pots were lifted.
But Wimbledon Day is the only game when I cried tears of joy at the end.
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1 Posted 07/11/2011 at 15:02:02
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"Question yourself," no further.You only watch when we are winning.