I believe we are in danger of being relegated.
We have as useless a collection of strikers as have ever graced the club. Saha is finished as a 90-minute striker. Vellios is not good enough yet. Anichebe is not good enough ever. Denis... well, I doubt we'll ever know.
The best striker at the club ,Yakubu, was sold for reasons that can't be explained. The failure to attract a decent striker in recent years has cost us dear.
Somewhere, anywhere, there must be a striker with something to prove. Someone, perhaps, who has been written off. Someone who can come in this January and score twelve goals before the end of the season.
Someone who, like the great Kevin Campbell, will save us from relegation. Anyone got any ideas?
Andy Crooks, Posted 09/11/2011 at 18:15:30
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1 Posted 09/11/2011 at 20:52:12
2 Posted 09/11/2011 at 20:58:18
3 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:00:07
4 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:00:20
5 Posted 09/11/2011 at 20:43:39
I'm not suggesting Ba is top class but he has everything we need: pace, power, good in the air and a bit of a greedy bastard to boot. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that, since the start of the year, there is only Van Persie who has scored more regularly in the Premier league.
6 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:06:55
7 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:13:00
8 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:14:58
In real world I think owen , sad as it is as he is a mercenary
9 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:05:21
Haven't seen enough of him to know if he's garbage or decent, but with 196 career goals behind him, worth a punt?
10 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:25:03
11 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:26:15
12 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:25:06
Id take Owen on pay as you play and also on the basis that if nothing else it would really get up the noses of the RS!!
13 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:17:53
Strikers being blamed at Everton is a joke, we don't create chances we knock the ball in from the east lancs rd hoping it bounces off someone's arse into the net
14 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:35:12
15 Posted 09/11/2011 at 21:35:46
16 Posted 09/11/2011 at 22:35:20
If Saha can't play a full 90 either sell him or use him as an impact sub. If Vellios doesn't have enough experience..fucking give him some. He isn't going to pick it up sitting on the bench. If Strac isn't up to it..why was he signed. McFadden..well?
For me its all about the formation. The only forward we have had in recent years who was comfortable playing up front by himself was Yak. I don't think its a coincidence he is our most successful striker. The rest of them prefer to work up front with another striker.
Its an issue Moyes has created. Its all about his style of play and not wanting to change it. If his system is to take the league by storm you either need Cahill at his very best or an out an out world class striker with a physical presence.
17 Posted 09/11/2011 at 22:43:56
18 Posted 09/11/2011 at 22:58:14
19 Posted 09/11/2011 at 23:13:42
20 Posted 09/11/2011 at 23:08:56
Aside from one season from The Yak perhaps, I haven't seen a front man improve or thrive under Moyes.
On a side note... did anyone see Andy Johnson's goals in Europe last week. Absolutely mint!
21 Posted 09/11/2011 at 23:17:00
22 Posted 09/11/2011 at 23:29:16
I reckon Moyes will bring in two new loanees in january. A goalie and another central defender. Just so he can sell off Jags/Heitinga and Mucha
23 Posted 09/11/2011 at 23:26:11
24 Posted 09/11/2011 at 23:40:50
25 Posted 10/11/2011 at 00:13:34
Did we also play the top 4 teams in the league in those first 10 matches. This is a lose-lose question for you Denis!
26 Posted 10/11/2011 at 00:17:06
I don't actually like him but he is a skilled player. Even if he did come I wouldn't be shocked if he did a Tevez after trying to fit into our current style of play.
27 Posted 10/11/2011 at 00:27:34
28 Posted 10/11/2011 at 00:53:41
He did it once he can do it again?
29 Posted 10/11/2011 at 01:07:27
The squad that Moyes turned it round with every year has gone.
For a long time I thought we had good players badly managed. Right now I think we have a couple of good players and many very average players badly managed. The sale of Arteta signalled the end of any ambition to move forward.He was the only quality we had and I believe his sale was a turning point in the history of our club.
30 Posted 10/11/2011 at 01:18:14
31 Posted 10/11/2011 at 02:01:25
32 Posted 10/11/2011 at 02:31:38
33 Posted 10/11/2011 at 06:10:01
34 Posted 10/11/2011 at 06:26:06
35 Posted 10/11/2011 at 07:18:43
36 Posted 10/11/2011 at 07:26:11
Then after showing us - yet again - that he's completely shit in this League. We may finally get some peace from all those "playing in the wrong position" posts !!
If it was a choice between Bily and playing with10 men I'd go for the 10 men.
37 Posted 10/11/2011 at 07:24:08
Vellios and Strac - you dismiss the pair of them, well they have hardly been given a chance to show what they can do have they ? Vellios started against Chelsea in the Cup and was subbed after 50 minutes -I would think that is hardly a fair enough time to judge a player. It seems that our strikers have to make an instant impact - otherwise thay are out.
I would not exactly call that being fair to the players. For some reason best known to the media, Moyes has a reputation for encouraging and developing young players. I can't understand how he has gained such a reputation. He shows very little encoragement or support to our strikers.
During his time as manager he has signed and discarded several strikers - have all of these guys been bad players ? I do not think so.
There have been several players who failed to make an instant impact at Everton, but who turned out to be " success" stories. For example remember Andy Hinchcliffe ? It was only when Royle took over that he really fulfilled his true potential.
You seem to be saying that the squad is not good enough - there is where I have to disagree - it is not the players- it is the manager who is not good enough. His tactics are boring and predictable. Moyes is the problem. Swansea went to Anfield with hardly a team of household names yet came very close to winning. Will Moyes go to Anfield with such positive tactics ? I doubt it. Warnock stated that he felt it was better to try and give it a go against Man City. Yes they lost but don't you think his approach far better than the tactics we all know Moyes would adopt?
Another manager would get more out of our squad of players - I am totally convinced ot that. Moyes is the problem - he seems totally incapable or is it unwilling to change his tactics even when it is obvious that they are not working. We are 1-2 down away at Newcastle - putting them under pressure and he waits until the last 10 minutes to bring an attacking sub!!!Lionel Messi himself would struggle to make an impact if brought on with only the last 10 minutes to go.
38 Posted 10/11/2011 at 08:22:34
Absolutely useless he is; regardless of where you play him.
39 Posted 10/11/2011 at 08:23:24
Or in the best of all ( low budget worlds not fantasyIsland mega money worlds ) worlds, have Donovan and Drenthe as deep lying inside lefts and Inside rights and coach them and the players delivering the ball to drop it short and for them to come off their markers to receive it. Having the option to either hold it or lay it off to the advancing midfield for a chip and chase in between and behind the back four.
Or for Donovan ( or who ever) playing with his back to the goal on the left side, comes off his marker and plays Drenthe in behind.
It's a bit hard to explain as it is about initiative and instinct and ...well making it up as you go along, improvisation, It used to be called school of science and thus is probabley well beyond the dullard coachs we have who seem to be all defend from the front, get behind the ball mechants.
And given the right attitude there is no reason why Fancy Dan's can't defend from the front as well.
Back in the day. There took place a game that is touted by the chattering class as the defining George Best United performance...Vs Benfica I think. Bestie ripped them a new one as the saying goes. But there was still defending to be done. Benfica get a corner and who are on the posts covering?...Charlton and Law. so it can be done .
If the Nouse and it has to be said the will to do it is there.
I won't hold my breath then waiting for Moyes to see the light.
40 Posted 10/11/2011 at 09:01:44
Obviously we would need a new manager for those things to happen!
If Kevin Campbell was playing now he would be lucky to get one or two goals with DM in charge of the team!
41 Posted 10/11/2011 at 09:32:55
42 Posted 10/11/2011 at 09:45:38
43 Posted 10/11/2011 at 09:55:47
44 Posted 10/11/2011 at 10:45:04
In my opinion the reason is that Moyes has lost the plot and that he is not inspiring the players to go out and give it a go with an "us against the world attitude" that we used to get effect in the past.
I didn't mind the Yak leaving - I was fed up with his lack of effort and his inability to get himself match fit. When Moyes decided to reject Leicester's bid for Vic, but accept their late bid for Beckford it confirmed my suspicions that Moyes hasn?t got a clue about forwards. From my seat (above the half way line in the top balcony), I have a perfect view of how we play and player?s movement (or lack of). Beckford may have had the touch of a Hippo, but he had pace and would often make a decent run into space. Yes he missed chances, but he was getting chances with his movement. Moyes didn?t like his attitude (I think Beckford may have had an over inflated opinion of his own worth), but to sell him, along with the Yak and James Vaughan, and decide to keep Vic, was criminal. Moyes faith in Saha and Cahill has proved to be flawed. We have all seen that Cahill has not recovered his fitness from the Asia Cup and perhaps his knee and foot injuries that he?s had are finally catching up with him.
The team has no creativity and no pace, which is a recipe for disaster.
45 Posted 10/11/2011 at 10:53:13
Saha has more goals in about as many matches for Everton and works harder/links play better anyway.
Its been a tough season so far but we are a barely a quarter in. 3 points less and we're 18th 3 points more and we are 9th. And we have undoubtedly had a tough run of late. I understand the concern but there's no pint making any predictions till Christmas at least.
Moyes admitted recently that we have needed a striker for a few seasons now. I agree its a shame we didn't get Ba but i guess money is tight. If moyes could just swallow his pride and sell Billy back to the highest Russian bidder then maybe we might have some funds to buy a striker to help out Louis. Maybe a loan for Berbatov? Or Tevez even?
46 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:08:57
47 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:20:16
Sadly there is no rationale other than the "business plan" of BK. There will be 3 teams worse...just.
48 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:38:13
I will save the trouble of the Moyes lovers:
"Dont worry Andy, Moyes always turns it round after christmas........"
(despite the fact that it is his fault we are in such a mess before that.)
There will be 3 teams worse off than us points wise. I have, however, yet to see a worse "footballing" side.
49 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:12:06
Beckfords goals return was usefull and as frustrating as he could be his pace offered a outlet, the usual defenders punt up field did not always come straight back giving us time to reorganize, he also made good runs giving the midfield players a target to hit, compare this to the non existent movement and workrate of Saha.
Although we are crying out for a striker of as much concern is conceding goals with clean sheets being in very short supply. If we cannot see are striker scoring one then top priority must go to defending as one goal should not be beyond us.
It is still possible to defend well and as a unit without flooding midfield and using two strikers especially in home games which is were we should be aiming to take the majority of are points.
50 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:41:47
51 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:44:07
Louis Saha is a great finisher but rarely gets a chance laid on for him. It's always backs to goal holding shit up. Be just the same whoever plays..
52 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:45:01
Look at Arteta. People say he was finished etc and now he's back in his groove at Arsenal, creating chances. Playing in a proper footballing team.
53 Posted 10/11/2011 at 11:45:23
I will save the trouble of the Player Apologists.
Don't worry, Coleman will remember how to stay on his feet and score
Saha will remember that the aim is to miss the goalie not to hit it straight at him
Drenthe will stop doing suicide passes across the midfield
Heitinga will remember how not to shit out of tackles
Howard will realise that he can handle the ball in the big box not just the small six yard one
Osman will learn to kick the ball harder than a girl guide
54 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:10:00
I can't tell you the future for sure but if we look at the past we have been in similar positions and yet still ended up in the top 10. Of course that is no guarantee.
I guess i would look at the experience of Moyes and the quality of the players we have and say that player for player we are probably better off than at least 6 or 7 teams in the league. And much as he may not play the best football Moyes has a pretty long and relatively effective record in the Premiership. Most other mid level teams would be (rightly or wrongly) happy to have him.
Of course none of this is a guarantee but it does neither us as fans or the players who pick up on anxiety any good to be saying that we are headed for relegation at this point. We don't play any of the current top 6 in the league again till the 1st February, if we are still 17th at that point then i will be more receptive to panic but for the moment the diagnosis is worrying but far from terminal.
55 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:23:12
56 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:32:09
Norwich will also finish below us, not too sure about QPR
57 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:35:28
I certainly don't think Everton are one of the favourites to go down but it is not beyond the realms of possibility either.
58 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:40:24
Therefore my "bottom of the table" right now looks like:
13. Everton (-4)
14. Wolves (-6)
15. West Brom (-7)
16. Bolton (-9)
17. QPR (-10)
18. Blackburn (-11)
19. Stoke (-11)
20. Wigan (-13)
And I'd say thats about right for the end of the season, give or take.
59 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:03:42
Can't see it being a problem to the Manc clubs... we ain't exactly a threat to them in the challenge for the title.
60 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:55:45
Just another option up front.
61 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:03:29
62 Posted 10/11/2011 at 12:12:26
Our last decent striker was Gary Lineker, surely?
63 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:04:39
QPR got 2 against Chelski, they still lost though.
64 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:15:36
I draw your comment to Moyes' comments before the Newcastle match at the weekend
"I took the decision because there were one or two things I wasn't sure about," said the Everton boss.
"I think his knee put a few off. I don't regret it. I've never really thought about it that much.
This is the same 'knee' that stopped Stoke from signing him in January. Hasn't shown any ill effects from where I am standing. And to say he has 'no regrets' is idiotic! Fair enough if our strikers were scoring hatfuls of goals, but they aren't!
65 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:06:32
66 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:16:33
The players didn't turn up at Goodison with a "sign me" poster did they? They don't pick themselves or play themselves out of position every week either do they regardless of how poorly they perform?
Ah yes it's the players fault, nothing to do with the coaches who should be ironing out the flaws you suggest above then?
But then again here comes your Moyes doesn't have a big enough squad to rotate retort...... He is 100% culpable for the ins and outs of the playing staff, he has said so himself.
67 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:20:55
We can't cross the ball so he probably wouldn't have scored for us if he was signed.
68 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:25:35
No matter where you are on the pitch or out of position does not justify a professional footballer not being able to trap a ball, pass it to a man 10 yards away acurately, shoot on target, hit the ball with power, fight for a header, hit it in front of the run not behind.
Yes, Moyes picks them and is at fault for that aspect but when a professional player is unable to do his job properly, why is it all Moyes's fault. Should the blame not be shared?
Are you telling me that Moyes is happy with selling Pienaar? (Wouldn't sign a contract) Arteta, who only went after handing in a transfer request, Rooney, who only went after handing in a transfer request, Lescott, who only went when he handed in a transfer request. See where I am going?
69 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:28:35
70 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:30:42
I agree that the blame should be shared but am at a loss as to why none of the flaws are being ironed out, it's all pretty basic stuff. Don't even get me started on throw ins (where it is evident that these are never worked on)
I see where you are going with the "transfer request" bit, but I have question marks over the handling of trying to keep Lescott and Pienaar, which was detrimental to the team. Arteta was told by Moyes last season that Moyes would "get him a Champions league team" which is in an interview a little while ago.
71 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:26:15
Given the current crop of players seem incapable of using any injustice or poor display as a motivational tool to put things right, I believe only Moyes resigning or a change of ownership are going to be enough to arrest our decline.
Being in the entertainment industry BK must be acutely aware of the derth of excitement and optimism derived from watching Everton lately. Something has got to give and soon.
72 Posted 10/11/2011 at 13:51:23
The polished ones (due to age) are now turning into turds and no new polished ones are coming through really, only turds. Now that's a lot of turds for one post.
73 Posted 10/11/2011 at 14:18:56
74 Posted 10/11/2011 at 14:25:35
But these are another year older and slower and the squad isn't the same as last season. We have lost our two creative players and our top scoring forward....and his back up
75 Posted 10/11/2011 at 14:43:47
If you don't score goals you don't win football matches, not the most complicated theory.
I'm willing to bet not many teams get outscored by all 3 relegated sides over the course of a season
76 Posted 10/11/2011 at 15:02:52
Apart from Yak, Beckford, Arteta, Pienaat, Vaughan have all been sold.
77 Posted 10/11/2011 at 15:39:45
78 Posted 10/11/2011 at 16:05:57
We need more goals from the supporting midfielders and Rodwell has a couple during this bad spell but the others have failed badly. If we cannot get maximum points over the next 3 games then we will be in dire straits.
It should be stressed that very few quality strikers will want to sign for Everton whilst Moyes employs this kind of strategy.
79 Posted 10/11/2011 at 16:41:35
I think Davie Moyes has in most cases improved players he has bought with obviously 1 or 2 noticeable exceptions.
He didnt want Lescott or Arteta to leave and in fact in Lescotts case hung onto him till the last possible minute. So no blame can be attributed to anyone for the departure of these 2 players.
80 Posted 10/11/2011 at 16:40:21
Quote - "Saha has more goals in about as many matches for Everton and works harder/links play better anyway2.
this has got to be the most ridiculous statement ever!
Saha is hardly ever fit, hardly ever scores and for the majority of matches strolls around up front doing f*** all he doesnt hold the ball up doesnt make intelligent runs and is an ineffective player.
Velios is not good enough I have followed him in the reserves. Denis...... say no more we are doomed.
81 Posted 10/11/2011 at 21:36:22
82 Posted 10/11/2011 at 21:47:42
Well he looks better than everybody we've tried,he's quick,mobile,strong in the air,good on the deck,oh yes and he seems to know where the net is.
Also Straq hasn't been given a fair crack yet.
I hope we do get Landon Dnovan back he might just provide the spark we need,also with Drenthe on the opposite flank we'll have to wide players with genuine pace and an eye for goal.
And why our 'secret weapon' Guaye is still a secret is beyond me!
Ah no it isn't Moyes is a prick!
83 Posted 10/11/2011 at 23:57:06
84 Posted 11/11/2011 at 01:33:54
85 Posted 11/11/2011 at 03:06:42
86 Posted 11/11/2011 at 09:32:00
87 Posted 11/11/2011 at 12:30:03
88 Posted 11/11/2011 at 13:06:54
Saha played for Man United and, if it wasnt for being injured too often, could've easily played for Real Madrid etc. He is still easily one of the best strikers in the Premier League.
89 Posted 11/11/2011 at 16:55:28
90 Posted 11/11/2011 at 17:12:58
91 Posted 11/11/2011 at 18:50:16
Another stat I read the other day was most goals come from crosses in the Premier League. We have not had a winger for years, so most strikers will struggle at Everton.
92 Posted 11/11/2011 at 19:25:04
93 Posted 11/11/2011 at 20:02:11
Moyes's pissed Rooney off when it was obvious he was exceptional and should have been a starter. Add to that, Moyes pissed away much of the tranfer fee on mediocrity save but a tiny few.
Sure I would like to see Vellios given a few starts as well as Stracqualursi but for Pete's sake don't play them on their own. Let's get back to 4-4-2 at least.
94 Posted 12/11/2011 at 12:39:32
95 Posted 13/11/2011 at 15:19:58
Answer ? isolated, immobile front man getting no support from central midfield who are too defensive minded
Solution ? sign a more attack minded central midfielder
Problem ? no cash to do it
Solution ? sell one of the two defensive central players
It might be unpopular, but if we sold Rodwell or Fellaini it would bring in enough to sign a creative midfielder and another striker.
96 Posted 13/11/2011 at 17:27:58
97 Posted 13/11/2011 at 18:16:50
98 Posted 13/11/2011 at 17:30:45
99 Posted 14/11/2011 at 07:00:54
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