Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
A new Kevin Campbell...
99 Comments: I believe we are in danger of being relegated.
We have as useless a collection of strikers as have ever graced the club. Saha is finished as a 90-minute striker. Vellios is not good enough yet. Anichebe is not good enough ever. Denis... well, I doubt we'll ever know.
The best striker at the club ,Yakubu, was sold for reasons that can't be explained. The failure to attract a decent striker in recent years has cost us dear.
Somewhere, anywhere, there must be a striker with something to prove. Someone, perhaps, who has been written off. Someone who can come in this January and score twelve goals before the end of the season.
Someone who, like the great Kevin Campbell, will save us from relegation. Anyone got any ideas?
Andy Crooks, Posted 09/11/2011 at 18:15:30
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Big Dunc.
And KENWRIGHT OUT.
Isn't McFadden the 'Scottish Campbell'?
I think we already missed out on him. Demba Ba would of been a massive step up from the strikers currently at the club in terms of actually, you know, scoring a few goals. I know it was suggested during the summer that Everton was his preferred option but the club baulked at his demands. I don't know what wages he's on at Newcastle, or how much of a sweetener his agents were demanding, but players who can make a real difference aren't usually available on a free transfer so I thought we might have gone for it.
I'm not suggesting Ba is top class but he has everything we need: pace, power, good in the air and a bit of a greedy bastard to boot. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that, since the start of the year, there is only Van Persie who has scored more regularly in the Premier league.
I'm not suggesting Ba is top class but he has everything we need: pace, power, good in the air and a bit of a greedy bastard to boot. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that, since the start of the year, there is only Van Persie who has scored more regularly in the Premier league.
I'm sure the annual Michael Owen rumours will start up again soon as well.
David Moyes would only ruin a new striker anyway. It's the one area that has become his achilles heel. Dirk Kuyt would be Moyes ideal striker, one that could run all day and score about 5 goals a season. What decent striker would come to Everton and get no support in a 4-5-1 system?
Bojan someone from barca or there's a Dutch kid who plays at inter forget his name but lanky yet elegant caligainti ?????
In real world I think owen , sad as it is as he is a mercenary
In real world I think owen , sad as it is as he is a mercenary
Cardiff City's Kenny Miller?
Haven't seen enough of him to know if he's garbage or decent, but with 196 career goals behind him, worth a punt?
Haven't seen enough of him to know if he's garbage or decent, but with 196 career goals behind him, worth a punt?
Does it really matter? You wont be able to do anything about it anyway. I agree with your post, but if you want a striker you have to start protesting for one.
Del Piero is a free agent in January
Kevin - Kenny Miller failed at Wolves and Derby!!! He scored for fun in SPL which frankly tells you nothing!! The all time SPL Leading scorer (Kyle Lafferty??) joined Middlesboro last season and was that piss poor he got loaned out at 1st opportunity!!!
Id take Owen on pay as you play and also on the basis that if nothing else it would really get up the noses of the RS!!
Id take Owen on pay as you play and also on the basis that if nothing else it would really get up the noses of the RS!!
Suppose Moyes getting them to create more chances via incisive football is spoofery of the highest order.
Strikers being blamed at Everton is a joke, we don't create chances we knock the ball in from the east lancs rd hoping it bounces off someone's arse into the net
Strikers being blamed at Everton is a joke, we don't create chances we knock the ball in from the east lancs rd hoping it bounces off someone's arse into the net
"Strikers being blamed at Everton is a joke, we don't create chances we knock the ball in from the east lancs rd hoping it bounces off someone's arse into the net "
Word.
Word.
Michael Owen? Jesus Christ almighty. That would be the final straw in our collapse.
We can all agree that our strikers are either injury prone, too old, too young or not good enough.
If Saha can't play a full 90 either sell him or use him as an impact sub. If Vellios doesn't have enough experience..fucking give him some. He isn't going to pick it up sitting on the bench. If Strac isn't up to it..why was he signed. McFadden..well?
For me its all about the formation. The only forward we have had in recent years who was comfortable playing up front by himself was Yak. I don't think its a coincidence he is our most successful striker. The rest of them prefer to work up front with another striker.
Its an issue Moyes has created. Its all about his style of play and not wanting to change it. If his system is to take the league by storm you either need Cahill at his very best or an out an out world class striker with a physical presence.
If Saha can't play a full 90 either sell him or use him as an impact sub. If Vellios doesn't have enough experience..fucking give him some. He isn't going to pick it up sitting on the bench. If Strac isn't up to it..why was he signed. McFadden..well?
For me its all about the formation. The only forward we have had in recent years who was comfortable playing up front by himself was Yak. I don't think its a coincidence he is our most successful striker. The rest of them prefer to work up front with another striker.
Its an issue Moyes has created. Its all about his style of play and not wanting to change it. If his system is to take the league by storm you either need Cahill at his very best or an out an out world class striker with a physical presence.
I'm available - 58 and willing. Likely to score more goals in a season than Anichebe ever will !
Kevin Phillips might do a job if he was offered a deal in January.
A long shot I know but, Berbatov. With united picking up a proportion of his wages.
Why would a decent striker want to sign for us? Moyes has turned Goodison into a strikers graveyard.
Aside from one season from The Yak perhaps, I haven't seen a front man improve or thrive under Moyes.
On a side note... did anyone see Andy Johnson's goals in Europe last week. Absolutely mint!
Aside from one season from The Yak perhaps, I haven't seen a front man improve or thrive under Moyes.
On a side note... did anyone see Andy Johnson's goals in Europe last week. Absolutely mint!
Need someone like Ricardo Fuller. I don't think he's been getting games at Stoke and therefore fallen down the pecking order. He can't be any worse the Anichebe, can hold the ball up atleast and has some pace, if any.Then again what are we coming to when we're thinking of looking at strikers from Stoke!! How sad!
What´s even sadder is we probably can´t afford to look at the likes of Fuller.
I reckon Moyes will bring in two new loanees in january. A goalie and another central defender. Just so he can sell off Jags/Heitinga and Mucha
I reckon Moyes will bring in two new loanees in january. A goalie and another central defender. Just so he can sell off Jags/Heitinga and Mucha
"I beleive we are in danger of being relegated"...Andy you could have had a career as a tabloid sensationalist. Just in case anyone's forgotten KC came in when we were in the mire with ten games to go rather than, as we are now, merely ten games in to the season.
Good point, Brendan. Mind you, we actually started that season better than this one, with 12 points from our first 10 League matches.
Denis #23
Did we also play the top 4 teams in the league in those first 10 matches. This is a lose-lose question for you Denis!
Did we also play the top 4 teams in the league in those first 10 matches. This is a lose-lose question for you Denis!
I'll run naked around Brisbane if we sign Berbatov. That's how confident I am that he won't even be considered.
I don't actually like him but he is a skilled player. Even if he did come I wouldn't be shocked if he did a Tevez after trying to fit into our current style of play.
I don't actually like him but he is a skilled player. Even if he did come I wouldn't be shocked if he did a Tevez after trying to fit into our current style of play.
I don't know, Brenda, I haven't got the week by week tables to check against.
Marcus Bent is a free agent,
He did it once he can do it again?
He did it once he can do it again?
Brendan, I'm not being sensationalist. In 45 years of supporting Everton I believe that are current situation on and off the pitch is the most perilous I have ever seen. Two years ago some Evertonians talked of Champions league at least. Right now I'd take 43 points.
The squad that Moyes turned it round with every year has gone.
For a long time I thought we had good players badly managed. Right now I think we have a couple of good players and many very average players badly managed. The sale of Arteta signalled the end of any ambition to move forward.He was the only quality we had and I believe his sale was a turning point in the history of our club.
The squad that Moyes turned it round with every year has gone.
For a long time I thought we had good players badly managed. Right now I think we have a couple of good players and many very average players badly managed. The sale of Arteta signalled the end of any ambition to move forward.He was the only quality we had and I believe his sale was a turning point in the history of our club.
Eric, I think Marcus has gone to some remote corner of the earth to finish off his career. Still, I believe he was the best striker Moyes ever had to fit in with his 4-5-1 game plan. A vastly under rated Evertonian , in my view and one striker that Moyes actually did get the best out of.
Landon Donovan
Gees, we are all negative today! Not surprising I suppose. However, can't we just try using two strikers and play in a formation that uses two strikers..... from the starting whistle! Why the F does Moyes not understand the term "striking partnerships"? He must have played against some!
COYB
COYB
I think Ba would have been perfect. Strac might get going after Jan, although that seems unlikely. I think we should go for Lukaku on loan in Jan, we could get him realistically and if we were to buy someone with our budget, I think Jelle Vossen for Genk would be great - a no-name who has impressed me in the Champions League. None of this will ever happen though, Moyes bringing Nuno Valente back and playing him striker is more likely.
Bily in the middle.
Let's put Dixie's statue on wheels and have one of the midfielders push him up into the opposing penalty area and then Jags can launch hoofs at the statue and since nobody should be able to out jump him and we might be able to get some knock ons......
Colin I'd be made up if he put Bily in the middle for a run of games.
Then after showing us - yet again - that he's completely shit in this League. We may finally get some peace from all those "playing in the wrong position" posts !!
If it was a choice between Bily and playing with10 men I'd go for the 10 men.
Then after showing us - yet again - that he's completely shit in this League. We may finally get some peace from all those "playing in the wrong position" posts !!
If it was a choice between Bily and playing with10 men I'd go for the 10 men.
Andy - I think your comments about our strikers are quite frankly ignorant.
Vellios and Strac - you dismiss the pair of them, well they have hardly been given a chance to show what they can do have they ? Vellios started against Chelsea in the Cup and was subbed after 50 minutes -I would think that is hardly a fair enough time to judge a player. It seems that our strikers have to make an instant impact - otherwise thay are out.
I would not exactly call that being fair to the players. For some reason best known to the media, Moyes has a reputation for encouraging and developing young players. I can't understand how he has gained such a reputation. He shows very little encoragement or support to our strikers.
During his time as manager he has signed and discarded several strikers - have all of these guys been bad players ? I do not think so.
There have been several players who failed to make an instant impact at Everton, but who turned out to be " success" stories. For example remember Andy Hinchcliffe ? It was only when Royle took over that he really fulfilled his true potential.
You seem to be saying that the squad is not good enough - there is where I have to disagree - it is not the players- it is the manager who is not good enough. His tactics are boring and predictable. Moyes is the problem. Swansea went to Anfield with hardly a team of household names yet came very close to winning. Will Moyes go to Anfield with such positive tactics ? I doubt it. Warnock stated that he felt it was better to try and give it a go against Man City. Yes they lost but don't you think his approach far better than the tactics we all know Moyes would adopt?
Another manager would get more out of our squad of players - I am totally convinced ot that. Moyes is the problem - he seems totally incapable or is it unwilling to change his tactics even when it is obvious that they are not working. We are 1-2 down away at Newcastle - putting them under pressure and he waits until the last 10 minutes to bring an attacking sub!!!Lionel Messi himself would struggle to make an impact if brought on with only the last 10 minutes to go.
Vellios and Strac - you dismiss the pair of them, well they have hardly been given a chance to show what they can do have they ? Vellios started against Chelsea in the Cup and was subbed after 50 minutes -I would think that is hardly a fair enough time to judge a player. It seems that our strikers have to make an instant impact - otherwise thay are out.
I would not exactly call that being fair to the players. For some reason best known to the media, Moyes has a reputation for encouraging and developing young players. I can't understand how he has gained such a reputation. He shows very little encoragement or support to our strikers.
During his time as manager he has signed and discarded several strikers - have all of these guys been bad players ? I do not think so.
There have been several players who failed to make an instant impact at Everton, but who turned out to be " success" stories. For example remember Andy Hinchcliffe ? It was only when Royle took over that he really fulfilled his true potential.
You seem to be saying that the squad is not good enough - there is where I have to disagree - it is not the players- it is the manager who is not good enough. His tactics are boring and predictable. Moyes is the problem. Swansea went to Anfield with hardly a team of household names yet came very close to winning. Will Moyes go to Anfield with such positive tactics ? I doubt it. Warnock stated that he felt it was better to try and give it a go against Man City. Yes they lost but don't you think his approach far better than the tactics we all know Moyes would adopt?
Another manager would get more out of our squad of players - I am totally convinced ot that. Moyes is the problem - he seems totally incapable or is it unwilling to change his tactics even when it is obvious that they are not working. We are 1-2 down away at Newcastle - putting them under pressure and he waits until the last 10 minutes to bring an attacking sub!!!Lionel Messi himself would struggle to make an impact if brought on with only the last 10 minutes to go.
I agree! put Bily in the middle.......of the East Lancs road in rush hour!
Absolutely useless he is; regardless of where you play him.
Absolutely useless he is; regardless of where you play him.
I would go with Landon, if the funds allow or play Saha in the 2nd striker / link with midfield role with Vellios, which is nearly sorta 451 ish.
Or in the best of all ( low budget worlds not fantasyIsland mega money worlds ) worlds, have Donovan and Drenthe as deep lying inside lefts and Inside rights and coach them and the players delivering the ball to drop it short and for them to come off their markers to receive it. Having the option to either hold it or lay it off to the advancing midfield for a chip and chase in between and behind the back four.
Or for Donovan ( or who ever) playing with his back to the goal on the left side, comes off his marker and plays Drenthe in behind.
It's a bit hard to explain as it is about initiative and instinct and ...well making it up as you go along, improvisation, It used to be called school of science and thus is probabley well beyond the dullard coachs we have who seem to be all defend from the front, get behind the ball mechants.
And given the right attitude there is no reason why Fancy Dan's can't defend from the front as well.
Back in the day. There took place a game that is touted by the chattering class as the defining George Best United performance...Vs Benfica I think. Bestie ripped them a new one as the saying goes. But there was still defending to be done. Benfica get a corner and who are on the posts covering?...Charlton and Law. so it can be done .
If the Nouse and it has to be said the will to do it is there.
I won't hold my breath then waiting for Moyes to see the light.
Or in the best of all ( low budget worlds not fantasyIsland mega money worlds ) worlds, have Donovan and Drenthe as deep lying inside lefts and Inside rights and coach them and the players delivering the ball to drop it short and for them to come off their markers to receive it. Having the option to either hold it or lay it off to the advancing midfield for a chip and chase in between and behind the back four.
Or for Donovan ( or who ever) playing with his back to the goal on the left side, comes off his marker and plays Drenthe in behind.
It's a bit hard to explain as it is about initiative and instinct and ...well making it up as you go along, improvisation, It used to be called school of science and thus is probabley well beyond the dullard coachs we have who seem to be all defend from the front, get behind the ball mechants.
And given the right attitude there is no reason why Fancy Dan's can't defend from the front as well.
Back in the day. There took place a game that is touted by the chattering class as the defining George Best United performance...Vs Benfica I think. Bestie ripped them a new one as the saying goes. But there was still defending to be done. Benfica get a corner and who are on the posts covering?...Charlton and Law. so it can be done .
If the Nouse and it has to be said the will to do it is there.
I won't hold my breath then waiting for Moyes to see the light.
Stop playing defensive, negative football.Attack!Believe! Be positive!
Obviously we would need a new manager for those things to happen!
If Kevin Campbell was playing now he would be lucky to get one or two goals with DM in charge of the team!
Obviously we would need a new manager for those things to happen!
If Kevin Campbell was playing now he would be lucky to get one or two goals with DM in charge of the team!
If we played with two proper strikers - at least when we are at home - then the goals would come. I don't think Cahill is going to bring our goal tally up too much this year...
I believe the selling of Beckford was one of the most puzzling decisions. Fair enough he wasn't the best striker to set the PL on fire but he scored 12 or so goals last season and has the ability to pull one out of the hat every now and again. To me it said everything (together with the sale of Arteta). Before we could rely on Cahill finding the back of the net.. now we just hope and pray...
Michael Brien, I think Velios will be a good striker when he gets a run of games, which doesn't seem likely.I've no idea what Denis is like but Moyes doesn't seem to rate him.
Anyone who dismisses our perilous predicament by using the excuse ?look at who we have played in the last 6 games" needs to go and look at last season's results. From the equivalent games last season we picked up 12 points and were unbeaten, this year we have picked up 3 points. We are facing a real struggle here.
In my opinion the reason is that Moyes has lost the plot and that he is not inspiring the players to go out and give it a go with an "us against the world attitude" that we used to get effect in the past.
I didn't mind the Yak leaving - I was fed up with his lack of effort and his inability to get himself match fit. When Moyes decided to reject Leicester's bid for Vic, but accept their late bid for Beckford it confirmed my suspicions that Moyes hasn?t got a clue about forwards. From my seat (above the half way line in the top balcony), I have a perfect view of how we play and player?s movement (or lack of). Beckford may have had the touch of a Hippo, but he had pace and would often make a decent run into space. Yes he missed chances, but he was getting chances with his movement. Moyes didn?t like his attitude (I think Beckford may have had an over inflated opinion of his own worth), but to sell him, along with the Yak and James Vaughan, and decide to keep Vic, was criminal. Moyes faith in Saha and Cahill has proved to be flawed. We have all seen that Cahill has not recovered his fitness from the Asia Cup and perhaps his knee and foot injuries that he?s had are finally catching up with him.
The team has no creativity and no pace, which is a recipe for disaster.
In my opinion the reason is that Moyes has lost the plot and that he is not inspiring the players to go out and give it a go with an "us against the world attitude" that we used to get effect in the past.
I didn't mind the Yak leaving - I was fed up with his lack of effort and his inability to get himself match fit. When Moyes decided to reject Leicester's bid for Vic, but accept their late bid for Beckford it confirmed my suspicions that Moyes hasn?t got a clue about forwards. From my seat (above the half way line in the top balcony), I have a perfect view of how we play and player?s movement (or lack of). Beckford may have had the touch of a Hippo, but he had pace and would often make a decent run into space. Yes he missed chances, but he was getting chances with his movement. Moyes didn?t like his attitude (I think Beckford may have had an over inflated opinion of his own worth), but to sell him, along with the Yak and James Vaughan, and decide to keep Vic, was criminal. Moyes faith in Saha and Cahill has proved to be flawed. We have all seen that Cahill has not recovered his fitness from the Asia Cup and perhaps his knee and foot injuries that he?s had are finally catching up with him.
The team has no creativity and no pace, which is a recipe for disaster.
People could not stop slagging off Yak and Beckford when they were here playing and now they are gone its like they were our shining lights!!
Saha has more goals in about as many matches for Everton and works harder/links play better anyway.
Its been a tough season so far but we are a barely a quarter in. 3 points less and we're 18th 3 points more and we are 9th. And we have undoubtedly had a tough run of late. I understand the concern but there's no pint making any predictions till Christmas at least.
Moyes admitted recently that we have needed a striker for a few seasons now. I agree its a shame we didn't get Ba but i guess money is tight. If moyes could just swallow his pride and sell Billy back to the highest Russian bidder then maybe we might have some funds to buy a striker to help out Louis. Maybe a loan for Berbatov? Or Tevez even?
Saha has more goals in about as many matches for Everton and works harder/links play better anyway.
Its been a tough season so far but we are a barely a quarter in. 3 points less and we're 18th 3 points more and we are 9th. And we have undoubtedly had a tough run of late. I understand the concern but there's no pint making any predictions till Christmas at least.
Moyes admitted recently that we have needed a striker for a few seasons now. I agree its a shame we didn't get Ba but i guess money is tight. If moyes could just swallow his pride and sell Billy back to the highest Russian bidder then maybe we might have some funds to buy a striker to help out Louis. Maybe a loan for Berbatov? Or Tevez even?
I would ask someone , and I don't mean this in a snide way,to write a positive article outlining why we will not be relegated. I would genuinely like to be reassured because, as you've probably guessed, I'm a kind of glass half empty guy
Andy,
Sadly there is no rationale other than the "business plan" of BK. There will be 3 teams worse...just.
Sadly there is no rationale other than the "business plan" of BK. There will be 3 teams worse...just.
Andy #46
I will save the trouble of the Moyes lovers:
"Dont worry Andy, Moyes always turns it round after christmas........"
(despite the fact that it is his fault we are in such a mess before that.)
There will be 3 teams worse off than us points wise. I have, however, yet to see a worse "footballing" side.
I will save the trouble of the Moyes lovers:
"Dont worry Andy, Moyes always turns it round after christmas........"
(despite the fact that it is his fault we are in such a mess before that.)
There will be 3 teams worse off than us points wise. I have, however, yet to see a worse "footballing" side.
I agree with Scott@42 The sale of Beckford was baffling, he may not have been the greatest finisher or had great close control but whenever he was on the pitch the team created a lot more chances.
Beckfords goals return was usefull and as frustrating as he could be his pace offered a outlet, the usual defenders punt up field did not always come straight back giving us time to reorganize, he also made good runs giving the midfield players a target to hit, compare this to the non existent movement and workrate of Saha.
Although we are crying out for a striker of as much concern is conceding goals with clean sheets being in very short supply. If we cannot see are striker scoring one then top priority must go to defending as one goal should not be beyond us.
It is still possible to defend well and as a unit without flooding midfield and using two strikers especially in home games which is were we should be aiming to take the majority of are points.
Beckfords goals return was usefull and as frustrating as he could be his pace offered a outlet, the usual defenders punt up field did not always come straight back giving us time to reorganize, he also made good runs giving the midfield players a target to hit, compare this to the non existent movement and workrate of Saha.
Although we are crying out for a striker of as much concern is conceding goals with clean sheets being in very short supply. If we cannot see are striker scoring one then top priority must go to defending as one goal should not be beyond us.
It is still possible to defend well and as a unit without flooding midfield and using two strikers especially in home games which is were we should be aiming to take the majority of are points.
James, that's all there needs to be. Indeed no positivity but no overbearing pessimism either
You could stick Van Persie, Messi or any other of Europe's top strikers into our side and they would bomb ? just like all the rest. Negative hoofball equals no service to the front men, equals no goals. It's gone on for 10 years.
Louis Saha is a great finisher but rarely gets a chance laid on for him. It's always backs to goal holding shit up. Be just the same whoever plays..
Louis Saha is a great finisher but rarely gets a chance laid on for him. It's always backs to goal holding shit up. Be just the same whoever plays..
Good points about our lack of movement Gary.
Look at Arteta. People say he was finished etc and now he's back in his groove at Arsenal, creating chances. Playing in a proper footballing team.
Look at Arteta. People say he was finished etc and now he's back in his groove at Arsenal, creating chances. Playing in a proper footballing team.
Andrew #48
I will save the trouble of the Player Apologists.
Don't worry, Coleman will remember how to stay on his feet and score
Saha will remember that the aim is to miss the goalie not to hit it straight at him
Drenthe will stop doing suicide passes across the midfield
Heitinga will remember how not to shit out of tackles
Howard will realise that he can handle the ball in the big box not just the small six yard one
Osman will learn to kick the ball harder than a girl guide
etc
I will save the trouble of the Player Apologists.
Don't worry, Coleman will remember how to stay on his feet and score
Saha will remember that the aim is to miss the goalie not to hit it straight at him
Drenthe will stop doing suicide passes across the midfield
Heitinga will remember how not to shit out of tackles
Howard will realise that he can handle the ball in the big box not just the small six yard one
Osman will learn to kick the ball harder than a girl guide
etc
Andy@46
I can't tell you the future for sure but if we look at the past we have been in similar positions and yet still ended up in the top 10. Of course that is no guarantee.
I guess i would look at the experience of Moyes and the quality of the players we have and say that player for player we are probably better off than at least 6 or 7 teams in the league. And much as he may not play the best football Moyes has a pretty long and relatively effective record in the Premiership. Most other mid level teams would be (rightly or wrongly) happy to have him.
Of course none of this is a guarantee but it does neither us as fans or the players who pick up on anxiety any good to be saying that we are headed for relegation at this point. We don't play any of the current top 6 in the league again till the 1st February, if we are still 17th at that point then i will be more receptive to panic but for the moment the diagnosis is worrying but far from terminal.
I can't tell you the future for sure but if we look at the past we have been in similar positions and yet still ended up in the top 10. Of course that is no guarantee.
I guess i would look at the experience of Moyes and the quality of the players we have and say that player for player we are probably better off than at least 6 or 7 teams in the league. And much as he may not play the best football Moyes has a pretty long and relatively effective record in the Premiership. Most other mid level teams would be (rightly or wrongly) happy to have him.
Of course none of this is a guarantee but it does neither us as fans or the players who pick up on anxiety any good to be saying that we are headed for relegation at this point. We don't play any of the current top 6 in the league again till the 1st February, if we are still 17th at that point then i will be more receptive to panic but for the moment the diagnosis is worrying but far from terminal.
I am fairly confident that Blackburn and Wigan will go down this year. But who is the 3rd team that is definitely worse than Everton? Bolton are below us now, but after last weeks result I bet they are not this time next month.
Andrew, I would say Bolton, Wolves and Fulham are worse than us. Especially Fulham with their ridiculous amounts of Europa League games.
Norwich will also finish below us, not too sure about QPR
Norwich will also finish below us, not too sure about QPR
They are all scoring goals though Tony, something we don't do enough of.
I certainly don't think Everton are one of the favourites to go down but it is not beyond the realms of possibility either.
I certainly don't think Everton are one of the favourites to go down but it is not beyond the realms of possibility either.
I have a rule of thumb for predicting relegations in the first half of the season; don't look at points, which don't always paint a reliable picture because of "unluckiness", look at goal difference. Its far more reliable, and an indicator of who really are looking poor. It works, because it displays teams who have poor defence, or who can't score goals, and usually both. These teams are always the ones that go down, of course.
Therefore my "bottom of the table" right now looks like:
13. Everton (-4)
14. Wolves (-6)
15. West Brom (-7)
16. Bolton (-9)
17. QPR (-10)
----------
18. Blackburn (-11)
19. Stoke (-11)
20. Wigan (-13)
And I'd say thats about right for the end of the season, give or take.
Therefore my "bottom of the table" right now looks like:
13. Everton (-4)
14. Wolves (-6)
15. West Brom (-7)
16. Bolton (-9)
17. QPR (-10)
----------
18. Blackburn (-11)
19. Stoke (-11)
20. Wigan (-13)
And I'd say thats about right for the end of the season, give or take.
A sensational 6-month loan swoop for Tevez and Berbatov!
Can't see it being a problem to the Manc clubs... we ain't exactly a threat to them in the challenge for the title.
Can't see it being a problem to the Manc clubs... we ain't exactly a threat to them in the challenge for the title.
I think some loan signings would be realistic. Somebody like Chamakh maybe? Or Macheda? Or Lukaku like somebody said earlier.
Just another option up front.
Just another option up front.
Jeremy...I think Stoke will probably be alright but otherwise i approve of your system. Though it can be easily skewed by one freak result i think there is a logic behind it. And it makes things look rosier for us!
Kevin Campbell? Mediocre. Duncan Ferguson? average. when fit. Yakubu???! Sick of you lot with your small club mentality. I don't want someone who can scramble in 11 a season.
Our last decent striker was Gary Lineker, surely?
Our last decent striker was Gary Lineker, surely?
Andrew you asked for who posters thought would finish below us, not who was scoring goals.
QPR got 2 against Chelski, they still lost though.
QPR got 2 against Chelski, they still lost though.
We could have had Demba Ba - he was on a free FFS.
I draw your comment to Moyes' comments before the Newcastle match at the weekend
"I took the decision because there were one or two things I wasn't sure about," said the Everton boss.
"I think his knee put a few off. I don't regret it. I've never really thought about it that much.
This is the same 'knee' that stopped Stoke from signing him in January. Hasn't shown any ill effects from where I am standing. And to say he has 'no regrets' is idiotic! Fair enough if our strikers were scoring hatfuls of goals, but they aren't!
I draw your comment to Moyes' comments before the Newcastle match at the weekend
"I took the decision because there were one or two things I wasn't sure about," said the Everton boss.
"I think his knee put a few off. I don't regret it. I've never really thought about it that much.
This is the same 'knee' that stopped Stoke from signing him in January. Hasn't shown any ill effects from where I am standing. And to say he has 'no regrets' is idiotic! Fair enough if our strikers were scoring hatfuls of goals, but they aren't!
Amen, Jimmy
Tony #52
The players didn't turn up at Goodison with a "sign me" poster did they? They don't pick themselves or play themselves out of position every week either do they regardless of how poorly they perform?
Ah yes it's the players fault, nothing to do with the coaches who should be ironing out the flaws you suggest above then?
But then again here comes your Moyes doesn't have a big enough squad to rotate retort...... He is 100% culpable for the ins and outs of the playing staff, he has said so himself.
The players didn't turn up at Goodison with a "sign me" poster did they? They don't pick themselves or play themselves out of position every week either do they regardless of how poorly they perform?
Ah yes it's the players fault, nothing to do with the coaches who should be ironing out the flaws you suggest above then?
But then again here comes your Moyes doesn't have a big enough squad to rotate retort...... He is 100% culpable for the ins and outs of the playing staff, he has said so himself.
Tom, the lads goals have, all bar one, come from headers.
We can't cross the ball so he probably wouldn't have scored for us if he was signed.
We can't cross the ball so he probably wouldn't have scored for us if he was signed.
That doesn't wash with me Andrew.
No matter where you are on the pitch or out of position does not justify a professional footballer not being able to trap a ball, pass it to a man 10 yards away acurately, shoot on target, hit the ball with power, fight for a header, hit it in front of the run not behind.
Yes, Moyes picks them and is at fault for that aspect but when a professional player is unable to do his job properly, why is it all Moyes's fault. Should the blame not be shared?
Are you telling me that Moyes is happy with selling Pienaar? (Wouldn't sign a contract) Arteta, who only went after handing in a transfer request, Rooney, who only went after handing in a transfer request, Lescott, who only went when he handed in a transfer request. See where I am going?
No matter where you are on the pitch or out of position does not justify a professional footballer not being able to trap a ball, pass it to a man 10 yards away acurately, shoot on target, hit the ball with power, fight for a header, hit it in front of the run not behind.
Yes, Moyes picks them and is at fault for that aspect but when a professional player is unable to do his job properly, why is it all Moyes's fault. Should the blame not be shared?
Are you telling me that Moyes is happy with selling Pienaar? (Wouldn't sign a contract) Arteta, who only went after handing in a transfer request, Rooney, who only went after handing in a transfer request, Lescott, who only went when he handed in a transfer request. See where I am going?
#65, he has scored 8 goals, 4 headed, 4 with his feet
Tony, again you list flaws in the game of the players but do not acknowledge blame for why they are not improving? why is that? Is it up to them to improve or a highly paid number of defensive individuals comprising the coaching/ management staff?
I agree that the blame should be shared but am at a loss as to why none of the flaws are being ironed out, it's all pretty basic stuff. Don't even get me started on throw ins (where it is evident that these are never worked on)
I see where you are going with the "transfer request" bit, but I have question marks over the handling of trying to keep Lescott and Pienaar, which was detrimental to the team. Arteta was told by Moyes last season that Moyes would "get him a Champions league team" which is in an interview a little while ago.
I agree that the blame should be shared but am at a loss as to why none of the flaws are being ironed out, it's all pretty basic stuff. Don't even get me started on throw ins (where it is evident that these are never worked on)
I see where you are going with the "transfer request" bit, but I have question marks over the handling of trying to keep Lescott and Pienaar, which was detrimental to the team. Arteta was told by Moyes last season that Moyes would "get him a Champions league team" which is in an interview a little while ago.
Everton are gravely in need of an "event" either on or off the pitch or preferably both. Something to galvanise the fans to get some positive aggressive energy flowing around GP on matchdays.
Given the current crop of players seem incapable of using any injustice or poor display as a motivational tool to put things right, I believe only Moyes resigning or a change of ownership are going to be enough to arrest our decline.
Being in the entertainment industry BK must be acutely aware of the derth of excitement and optimism derived from watching Everton lately. Something has got to give and soon.
Given the current crop of players seem incapable of using any injustice or poor display as a motivational tool to put things right, I believe only Moyes resigning or a change of ownership are going to be enough to arrest our decline.
Being in the entertainment industry BK must be acutely aware of the derth of excitement and optimism derived from watching Everton lately. Something has got to give and soon.
Unfortunately Andrew the answer to the first question is either a) You can't polish a turd or b) you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
The polished ones (due to age) are now turning into turds and no new polished ones are coming through really, only turds. Now that's a lot of turds for one post.
The polished ones (due to age) are now turning into turds and no new polished ones are coming through really, only turds. Now that's a lot of turds for one post.
The majority of these turds comprised Moyes "best ever squad" not so long ago...
Did you believe that line Andrew? I know I didn't.
But these are another year older and slower and the squad isn't the same as last season. We have lost our two creative players and our top scoring forward....and his back up
But these are another year older and slower and the squad isn't the same as last season. We have lost our two creative players and our top scoring forward....and his back up
Tony #63, QPR beat Chelsea didn't they?
If you don't score goals you don't win football matches, not the most complicated theory.
I'm willing to bet not many teams get outscored by all 3 relegated sides over the course of a season
If you don't score goals you don't win football matches, not the most complicated theory.
I'm willing to bet not many teams get outscored by all 3 relegated sides over the course of a season
Re Andrew
Apart from Yak, Beckford, Arteta, Pienaat, Vaughan have all been sold.
Apart from Yak, Beckford, Arteta, Pienaat, Vaughan have all been sold.
we have more chance of a 4 6 0 formation in the next 2 games given we need points. 2 points from the next 2 games and everyone at wolves and bolton will be happy. Moyes does not believe in strikers anyway, one up front hardly merits an attacking intent. at least with six central defenders we can park the bus and hoof it to their keeper. Its what they used to serve up in the early days anyway. Its going to be a long hard cold winter of discontent.
Yes we are in need of a striker who can play most games, have speed and can hold up the ball. Beckford was decent but couldn't hold the ball. Still we should have kept him longer. The awful system the Moyes plays is enough to frustrate any striker but even more so King Louis who is feeling his age after all his injury problems. He has brought in Straqualursi and Velios who don't seem to be ready yet and may never be as long as only one striker is selected for each game.
We need more goals from the supporting midfielders and Rodwell has a couple during this bad spell but the others have failed badly. If we cannot get maximum points over the next 3 games then we will be in dire straits.
It should be stressed that very few quality strikers will want to sign for Everton whilst Moyes employs this kind of strategy.
We need more goals from the supporting midfielders and Rodwell has a couple during this bad spell but the others have failed badly. If we cannot get maximum points over the next 3 games then we will be in dire straits.
It should be stressed that very few quality strikers will want to sign for Everton whilst Moyes employs this kind of strategy.
Andrew 70
I think Davie Moyes has in most cases improved players he has bought with obviously 1 or 2 noticeable exceptions.
He didnt want Lescott or Arteta to leave and in fact in Lescotts case hung onto him till the last possible minute. So no blame can be attributed to anyone for the departure of these 2 players.
I think Davie Moyes has in most cases improved players he has bought with obviously 1 or 2 noticeable exceptions.
He didnt want Lescott or Arteta to leave and in fact in Lescotts case hung onto him till the last possible minute. So no blame can be attributed to anyone for the departure of these 2 players.
Sam #45
Quote - "Saha has more goals in about as many matches for Everton and works harder/links play better anyway2.
this has got to be the most ridiculous statement ever!
Saha is hardly ever fit, hardly ever scores and for the majority of matches strolls around up front doing f*** all he doesnt hold the ball up doesnt make intelligent runs and is an ineffective player.
Velios is not good enough I have followed him in the reserves. Denis...... say no more we are doomed.
Quote - "Saha has more goals in about as many matches for Everton and works harder/links play better anyway2.
this has got to be the most ridiculous statement ever!
Saha is hardly ever fit, hardly ever scores and for the majority of matches strolls around up front doing f*** all he doesnt hold the ball up doesnt make intelligent runs and is an ineffective player.
Velios is not good enough I have followed him in the reserves. Denis...... say no more we are doomed.
For those posters who found it 'baffling' that Beckford was sold, the reason was that someone came in with ready cash and BK snatched their hand off. Look at the transfer window objectively and it was obvious that it was a fire sale-nothing coming in and no offer declined, I'm only surprised that Baines and Jags didn't go.
David#80 So Velios isn't good enough?!
Well he looks better than everybody we've tried,he's quick,mobile,strong in the air,good on the deck,oh yes and he seems to know where the net is.
Also Straq hasn't been given a fair crack yet.
I hope we do get Landon Dnovan back he might just provide the spark we need,also with Drenthe on the opposite flank we'll have to wide players with genuine pace and an eye for goal.
And why our 'secret weapon' Guaye is still a secret is beyond me!
Ah no it isn't Moyes is a prick!
Well he looks better than everybody we've tried,he's quick,mobile,strong in the air,good on the deck,oh yes and he seems to know where the net is.
Also Straq hasn't been given a fair crack yet.
I hope we do get Landon Dnovan back he might just provide the spark we need,also with Drenthe on the opposite flank we'll have to wide players with genuine pace and an eye for goal.
And why our 'secret weapon' Guaye is still a secret is beyond me!
Ah no it isn't Moyes is a prick!
I wish you would all stop with this "hasn't been given a fair crack" comment, they get a fair crack every day in training.....
I wish you would stop with this "hasn't been given a fair crack" comment, it's getting repetitive
I suspect Denis isn't playing because of the slide tackle he did to that Wigan player on his debut. Moyes doesn't like players harder than himself. Only when Denis kneels and repents and follows in pussy Osman footsteps will he be allowed back on the pitch, fucking choir boys mentality (of course no offense to real choir boys).
The list is getting longer, Moyes doesn't like skillful players, he doesn't like wingers, he doesn't like individuals and now he doesn't like anyway who is harder than him.....jeeez!!
Any ideas??? Realistically???
PRAY.
PRAY.
We wont even nearly get relegated and Saha is twice the striker Yakubu will ever be. I liked the Yak but be realistic, look at the clubs he played for: Portsmouth, Boro, they're not even in the Prem any more.
Saha played for Man United and, if it wasnt for being injured too often, could've easily played for Real Madrid etc. He is still easily one of the best strikers in the Premier League.
Saha played for Man United and, if it wasnt for being injured too often, could've easily played for Real Madrid etc. He is still easily one of the best strikers in the Premier League.
KENWRIGHT OUT
Saha was a great finisher, but he misses chances now injuries have caught up with him. We don't commit enough players in the opposition half, mainly because, if we loose possession, we don't have pace to get back. Kenwright out!
I think Saha is still a good player. He was excellent away at Chelsea with his touch and hold up play. The problem is he is always on his own. Sometimes there isn't a player within 20/30 yards of him. The midfield at Everton must be the slowest and most static midfield in the league. We are crying out for pace and have been for years.
Another stat I read the other day was most goals come from crosses in the Premier League. We have not had a winger for years, so most strikers will struggle at Everton.
Another stat I read the other day was most goals come from crosses in the Premier League. We have not had a winger for years, so most strikers will struggle at Everton.
Surely there is an out-of-favour striker at one of the clubs in the league that can come and help us? I do want us to get in Donovan, but for a goalscorer, I think we should get Owen. He is still a great finisher (I know he's been playing against lower league opposition, but he has still shown his quality) and it surely would be worth at least giving him a go? It could be an inspired signing, or a flop, but who are we to be picky now?
The problem with new players is that Moyes doesn't have the guts to give them a good run in the team especially when others are performing poorly. Saha will not get better and in fact is losing a half-yard as he has gotten older notwithstanding all the injuries.
Moyes's pissed Rooney off when it was obvious he was exceptional and should have been a starter. Add to that, Moyes pissed away much of the tranfer fee on mediocrity save but a tiny few.
Sure I would like to see Vellios given a few starts as well as Stracqualursi but for Pete's sake don't play them on their own. Let's get back to 4-4-2 at least.
Moyes's pissed Rooney off when it was obvious he was exceptional and should have been a starter. Add to that, Moyes pissed away much of the tranfer fee on mediocrity save but a tiny few.
Sure I would like to see Vellios given a few starts as well as Stracqualursi but for Pete's sake don't play them on their own. Let's get back to 4-4-2 at least.
Ian (#91), that's the way I see it with Saha. He always seems to have his back to goal, with no-one getting up quick enough to support him.
Question ? why don't we score?
Answer ? isolated, immobile front man getting no support from central midfield who are too defensive minded
Solution ? sign a more attack minded central midfielder
Problem ? no cash to do it
Solution ? sell one of the two defensive central players
It might be unpopular, but if we sold Rodwell or Fellaini it would bring in enough to sign a creative midfielder and another striker.
Answer ? isolated, immobile front man getting no support from central midfield who are too defensive minded
Solution ? sign a more attack minded central midfielder
Problem ? no cash to do it
Solution ? sell one of the two defensive central players
It might be unpopular, but if we sold Rodwell or Fellaini it would bring in enough to sign a creative midfielder and another striker.
Good point, Tony; however, I fear we will sell Fellaini or Rodwell and buy no-one.
Yep, me too.
Andy, add to that the extremely short sighted and memory impaired will forget the money raised by Yobo's loan, Yak's loan, Yak's sale, Beckford's sale, Vaughan's sale, Pienaar's sale, Bellefield sale and Arteta's sale has all been fed back to the bank(s) I expect more of the same with the next exits out of the door.
Tony Hibbert.
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