Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
What is wrong?
49 Comments: Wolves are a very poor side. They play poor football and staying up will be a triumph for them and a disaster for football. How much better are Everton? Not much it seems. There isn't a player in the squad who should be anything other than utterly embarrassed by their performances this season.
Bereft of ideas, incapable of showing any sort of quality, lacking in the basic fundamentals of opening up a poor side. I think there are two possible explanations. First, lack of funds has led to us having a squad that, no matter who is at the helm, simply aren't good enough footballers.
Or, the squad aren't that bad but are simply lacking in motivation, confidence, belief and a game plan that enables them to defeat poor teams.
I don't think it is churlish to say that this win only papers over what is wrong. David Moyes, in my view, is not getting the best from this squad.
Andy Crooks, Posted 19/11/2011 at 18:54:26
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It was an awful defeat today, wasn't it Andy.
Oh no, wait. We won. And got the same 3 points that City got for smashing United 6-1.
Some times we need to get a grip on reality and accept that a win is a win and with it comes improvements in morale.
Oh no, wait. We won. And got the same 3 points that City got for smashing United 6-1.
Some times we need to get a grip on reality and accept that a win is a win and with it comes improvements in morale.
I don't know if it's Moyes not getting the best from his players or it's just the players not performing. The players get away with far too much on this site. I've seen flashes of what they can do and it's not all been awful this season (although most of it has). I think it's down to confidence and hopefully we'll get a couple of wins on the bounce and we'll start to see what this 'good' team can do.
Man United struggled to beat Swansea.
Does this mean Ferguson is not getting the best out of his squad?
Not every single game is down to the manager. Any manager.
There are 11 millionaire footballers out there who should be taking responsibility as well as the manager.
We hear you don't like the manager. We get it. Do you have to go on about it every single fucking match?
Does this mean Ferguson is not getting the best out of his squad?
Not every single game is down to the manager. Any manager.
There are 11 millionaire footballers out there who should be taking responsibility as well as the manager.
We hear you don't like the manager. We get it. Do you have to go on about it every single fucking match?
Let's face it, there's something very wrong at Everton. Probably an accumulation of factors, but nonetheless we need a change.
Or the team are on the usual early season form, and with a few wins we can kick on to a performance and result in the same afternoon.
Ryan, Man Utd have the second best squad in the country and are second. Our league position doesn't reflect the strength of our squad.
However, I agree, without doubt, though, these players are letting Moyes down. He has shown a lot of loyalty to some of them ? too much in my view ? and he deserves more from them.
However, I agree, without doubt, though, these players are letting Moyes down. He has shown a lot of loyalty to some of them ? too much in my view ? and he deserves more from them.
I could barely be bothered to applaud our goals today. Keep Baines and Fellaini and ship the rest out, starting with the Manager. We won, not because we were good or even defended well. Wolves came for a draw and never really tried to attack. Moyes kept as many players back as he could just in case they did.
We are so dull you just sit there thinking how much of your life this is wasting. It is pathetic.
We are so dull you just sit there thinking how much of your life this is wasting. It is pathetic.
I think our squad is about the 7th/8th best in the PL. It lacks in certain areas. In particular, IMO, a forward who scores half-chances. Someone like... Darren Bent.
A forward like him would make a big difference to the team as he would give Everton a focal point.
I respect and understand why you don't like Moyes. I don't like some of the stuff he does as well. I won't repeat them because they have been discussed to death on here this season and nothing is changing soon.
Personally, I would, despite my respect for him, drop Cahill as he is offering next to nothing at the moment. Apart from fouling players.
I still think we'll finish top 8 this season. Hopefully we can get a player or two in January and then kick on.
NSNO? No, but been realistic I think.
A forward like him would make a big difference to the team as he would give Everton a focal point.
I respect and understand why you don't like Moyes. I don't like some of the stuff he does as well. I won't repeat them because they have been discussed to death on here this season and nothing is changing soon.
Personally, I would, despite my respect for him, drop Cahill as he is offering next to nothing at the moment. Apart from fouling players.
I still think we'll finish top 8 this season. Hopefully we can get a player or two in January and then kick on.
NSNO? No, but been realistic I think.
Andy
If our league position does not represent the strength of the squad then it represents the ability of the Manager. You can't say the squad is good then blame them rather than the Manager. it is the fault of the Boss. He makes the decisions. He picks the players, he refuses to change tactics because he should be working a division or two below.
Even if we qualified again, could you ever see Moyes winning in Europe for instance? Thought not.
If our league position does not represent the strength of the squad then it represents the ability of the Manager. You can't say the squad is good then blame them rather than the Manager. it is the fault of the Boss. He makes the decisions. He picks the players, he refuses to change tactics because he should be working a division or two below.
Even if we qualified again, could you ever see Moyes winning in Europe for instance? Thought not.
Steve at #5. You have hit the nail on the head.
Something is very wrong. It permeates right through the club and is called rank amateurism.
From the way we have been playing for some time now, the piss-poor public relations and marketing of the club, the pathetic merchandising, the whole executive structure, particularly illustrated by the leaked email chains (particularly if they are genuine) etc, etc, bloody etc.
I cannot believe (notwithstanding the financial constraints) that we can't find a young, hungry, professional, visionary manager with the personality and will to shake up the club.
Billy and the board need to sit down, agree on a positive vision and start head-hunting. It happens all the time in business and that, apparently, is what football is now.
Won't happen so a couple of wins, however achieved, may well improve confidence but under this current regime will only keep us languishing in mid- to low-table mediocrity.
Still watch them every chance I get though!
Something is very wrong. It permeates right through the club and is called rank amateurism.
From the way we have been playing for some time now, the piss-poor public relations and marketing of the club, the pathetic merchandising, the whole executive structure, particularly illustrated by the leaked email chains (particularly if they are genuine) etc, etc, bloody etc.
I cannot believe (notwithstanding the financial constraints) that we can't find a young, hungry, professional, visionary manager with the personality and will to shake up the club.
Billy and the board need to sit down, agree on a positive vision and start head-hunting. It happens all the time in business and that, apparently, is what football is now.
Won't happen so a couple of wins, however achieved, may well improve confidence but under this current regime will only keep us languishing in mid- to low-table mediocrity.
Still watch them every chance I get though!
What`s wrong? easy, Bill Kenwright!
This squad will struggle throughout this season... and I fervently hope I am wrong, but that is my view. We are WEAKER than last season and, if nothing is done to FRESHEN this squad up by bringing in new faces in January, I think it will be a relegation fight.
Apart from our defence we are WEAK in virtually every position. The only striker on the books with any class is injury-prone and ageing. Our midfield compares unfavourably with far more sides than the top 7 or 8 and I see better players at clubs that are below us.
I've been a supporter for many years and I can see a decline that cannot just be blamed on Moyes. He is the well paid 'punchbag' for the board. The players in the main lack basic ball control and passing ability. We do best when we are stopping other teams from playing.
When did we last really hammer a team? I think Blackpool was the last one. We are now scrambling for points and if we lose a game, we are back in the mire because our side is so predictable that scoring goals is proving to be really difficult.
Creativity is not there any more since Pienaar and Arteta left... and I don't see the present board spending any money unless we are in the bottom three in January.
Apart from our defence we are WEAK in virtually every position. The only striker on the books with any class is injury-prone and ageing. Our midfield compares unfavourably with far more sides than the top 7 or 8 and I see better players at clubs that are below us.
I've been a supporter for many years and I can see a decline that cannot just be blamed on Moyes. He is the well paid 'punchbag' for the board. The players in the main lack basic ball control and passing ability. We do best when we are stopping other teams from playing.
When did we last really hammer a team? I think Blackpool was the last one. We are now scrambling for points and if we lose a game, we are back in the mire because our side is so predictable that scoring goals is proving to be really difficult.
Creativity is not there any more since Pienaar and Arteta left... and I don't see the present board spending any money unless we are in the bottom three in January.
Nathan (2) - "Some times we need to get a grip on reality and accept that a win is a win and with it comes improvements in morale."
Well said.
Well said.
Steve (11) - "we can't find a young, hungry, professional, visionary manager with the personality and will to shake up the club."
Name five. No, name four. Three? Two?
I'll give you 5 names: Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Hiddink.
So have at it. How would our fortunes be changed if one of them became the manager tomorrow? Not a jot. And Moyes would win with theirs.
The position of Manager/Coach is so over-rated. Any sport. But some do count towards success. The five I listed are like Moyes. You have the talent, you count. You don't have the talent, you really, really, really need to count. Moyes does.
Name five. No, name four. Three? Two?
I'll give you 5 names: Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Guardiola, Hiddink.
So have at it. How would our fortunes be changed if one of them became the manager tomorrow? Not a jot. And Moyes would win with theirs.
The position of Manager/Coach is so over-rated. Any sport. But some do count towards success. The five I listed are like Moyes. You have the talent, you count. You don't have the talent, you really, really, really need to count. Moyes does.
James Flynn, are you for real? Moyes hasn't got a clue. What other PL manager would religiously play Hibbert? How many others have almost a full squad of international players who seem so out of sync when they turn out for their clubs, or carry on with the same failed system for years, even when other managers have sussed it out. And how many allow their best players to leave the club - Arteta, Pienaar, Beckford, Yakubu, Gosling etc. without uttering a word of dissent? Or play a system with no strikers or just a lone attacker who lacks pace (Saha, Beattie) or can't hold the ball up (Beckford). We can all see the merits and failings of individual players, it seems the most important man just can't
Mick (16) - Thanks for replying.
"Moyes hasn't got a clue". I'd venture Moyes has at least one clue. That clue being how to keep us at least mid-table without funds these last years. Only Moyes has done it. No other EPL manager. Just Moyes.
That aside, I listed 5 acknowledged top managers. How would we be improved if any one of them were hired tomorrow? Explain.
By the by - You mentioned Beckford twice in two different lights. In which way was Moyes right? Wrong?
"Moyes hasn't got a clue". I'd venture Moyes has at least one clue. That clue being how to keep us at least mid-table without funds these last years. Only Moyes has done it. No other EPL manager. Just Moyes.
That aside, I listed 5 acknowledged top managers. How would we be improved if any one of them were hired tomorrow? Explain.
By the by - You mentioned Beckford twice in two different lights. In which way was Moyes right? Wrong?
I wish it was as black and white as some think. Football is a team game with the manager and staff part of that team. When the whole thing functions well, you see performance on the pitch... and when small things are not right, things go wrong. Confidence is a key thing too and I don't believe the club has confidence now.
The manager also seems resigned to failure too and that is worrying. The magnificent side of the 80s was in 1983 one of the worst I'd seen at Everton and look what happened to them. Look at United now with their very strong squad, they are awful and the fans are moaning as much as us.
I don't know what is wrong with the side, it could simply be that the players are not good enough. I would hope though that it is a confidence thing and a couple of wins will see things improve.
I'm desperately worried about some of the things that Moyes does like playing Cahill and blanking out Ross Barkley and his apparent dour negativity. 4-4-2 won't help and blindly attacking half decent sides will see us relegated but surely we can serve up better than we are now?
The manager also seems resigned to failure too and that is worrying. The magnificent side of the 80s was in 1983 one of the worst I'd seen at Everton and look what happened to them. Look at United now with their very strong squad, they are awful and the fans are moaning as much as us.
I don't know what is wrong with the side, it could simply be that the players are not good enough. I would hope though that it is a confidence thing and a couple of wins will see things improve.
I'm desperately worried about some of the things that Moyes does like playing Cahill and blanking out Ross Barkley and his apparent dour negativity. 4-4-2 won't help and blindly attacking half decent sides will see us relegated but surely we can serve up better than we are now?
That performance against Wolves was shit, there were only about 4 players on the pitch who belong in the Premier League on that performance.
Constantly throwing high balls into Cahill and Saha (who were also both shit) just plays into four six-foot-five defenders' hands and is brainless. The two or three times we tried to get behind them and get the ball in from the byeline created chances only for Saha to be out on the right wing, whether this is orders from Mr Negative remains to be seen.
We could have played all day and all night and would not have scored from open play, Felliani was simply the worst player on the pitch and if he keeps performing like that, someone get the Tipex. Barkley must be stunned by the shite he has to watch from the bench, and the biggest joke is that, when Moyes gives him 10 minutes, it's from a wide position.
Barkley may be young and will make some mistakes but it's obvious he has confidence in his own ability, his last sub appearance at Goodison he lashed a 40-yard ball crossfield first touch, we don't have a central midfielder who will do that all season and I will include Fellaini and Rodwell who never played yesterday in that. The midfield is full of ordinary average players and Barkley has a chance of being much more than that and he has to be given a chance for us ? not the England youth teams or reserves. Tired or burnt out?!? ? he is a kid and could probably play every day.
Constantly throwing high balls into Cahill and Saha (who were also both shit) just plays into four six-foot-five defenders' hands and is brainless. The two or three times we tried to get behind them and get the ball in from the byeline created chances only for Saha to be out on the right wing, whether this is orders from Mr Negative remains to be seen.
We could have played all day and all night and would not have scored from open play, Felliani was simply the worst player on the pitch and if he keeps performing like that, someone get the Tipex. Barkley must be stunned by the shite he has to watch from the bench, and the biggest joke is that, when Moyes gives him 10 minutes, it's from a wide position.
Barkley may be young and will make some mistakes but it's obvious he has confidence in his own ability, his last sub appearance at Goodison he lashed a 40-yard ball crossfield first touch, we don't have a central midfielder who will do that all season and I will include Fellaini and Rodwell who never played yesterday in that. The midfield is full of ordinary average players and Barkley has a chance of being much more than that and he has to be given a chance for us ? not the England youth teams or reserves. Tired or burnt out?!? ? he is a kid and could probably play every day.
Andy, there are unfortunately a number of things wrong at the club at the moment, and probably too many to list here!
I certainly think the biggest problem is the lack of creativity in the team. Real, top quality creative players like Sneijder, Ozil and Silva cost a hell of a lot of money (another problem) or come through an excellent youth academy like Iniesta and Xavi.
Currently I don't see Everton having any creative players. Pienaar and Arteta have gone and Osman is only really good enough to be a squad player. This relates to another problem that Moyes has never signed enough creative players, he prefers a hardworking team. Moyes has only ever signed one winger (van der Meyde) in his time as manager.
This relates to another problem of having too many defensive midfielders don't support the lonesome (another problem) striker enough.
If you don't have the right players to play a specific formation, surely it's better to play a basic 4-4-2 rather than square pegs in round holes? No striker in the world is good enough to play upfront by himself with no support coming from midfield, but's that's exactly what Moyes has asked Saha to do. No wonder Saha looks fed up all the time.
The only quality we had yesterday was Baines. He was the difference between the two sides.
We currently have simply a workmanlike side. Similar to Wolves ... and Bolton ... and Sunderland ... and Blackburn ...
I certainly think the biggest problem is the lack of creativity in the team. Real, top quality creative players like Sneijder, Ozil and Silva cost a hell of a lot of money (another problem) or come through an excellent youth academy like Iniesta and Xavi.
Currently I don't see Everton having any creative players. Pienaar and Arteta have gone and Osman is only really good enough to be a squad player. This relates to another problem that Moyes has never signed enough creative players, he prefers a hardworking team. Moyes has only ever signed one winger (van der Meyde) in his time as manager.
This relates to another problem of having too many defensive midfielders don't support the lonesome (another problem) striker enough.
If you don't have the right players to play a specific formation, surely it's better to play a basic 4-4-2 rather than square pegs in round holes? No striker in the world is good enough to play upfront by himself with no support coming from midfield, but's that's exactly what Moyes has asked Saha to do. No wonder Saha looks fed up all the time.
The only quality we had yesterday was Baines. He was the difference between the two sides.
We currently have simply a workmanlike side. Similar to Wolves ... and Bolton ... and Sunderland ... and Blackburn ...
Moyes is scared of taking a risk on something different, he is scared of losing more of his better players and is sticking to the basics. Will he wake up to the fact that it won't be enough in the long run? I doubt.
More purpose in attack will distract the opposition from concentrating on their attack to worrying about their defence making our defence more comfortable.
Barkley and Gueye need to be introduced so we can hopefully start hurting teams before they put pressure on us. I think we have the players to do that but not the belief. That belief is mainly lacking from the manager.
More purpose in attack will distract the opposition from concentrating on their attack to worrying about their defence making our defence more comfortable.
Barkley and Gueye need to be introduced so we can hopefully start hurting teams before they put pressure on us. I think we have the players to do that but not the belief. That belief is mainly lacking from the manager.
Bet by the end of the season we'll be in about 8th ahead of 'Swansalona' and Norwich who both have young hungry managers much better than Moyes if this site is to be believed.
Yes, we got a hiding off the top teams and they all happened to come in a row but this talk of relegation and Moyes being a bad manager is rubbish. Even with our weak squad at the moment, was anyone expecting to lose at home to Wolves? No, they came parked the bus and we barely let them out their half.
Okay, we weren't convincing and lacked the cutting edge but only one team deserved to win and that was us. It will be the same in the next two games, we'll be expecting to beat Bolton and Stoke, both teams with good managers and which have spent a lot more money than us, yet Moyes will probably still get results out of them.
Yes, we got a hiding off the top teams and they all happened to come in a row but this talk of relegation and Moyes being a bad manager is rubbish. Even with our weak squad at the moment, was anyone expecting to lose at home to Wolves? No, they came parked the bus and we barely let them out their half.
Okay, we weren't convincing and lacked the cutting edge but only one team deserved to win and that was us. It will be the same in the next two games, we'll be expecting to beat Bolton and Stoke, both teams with good managers and which have spent a lot more money than us, yet Moyes will probably still get results out of them.
Our secret weapon remains secret.
I think that something as basic as a smile from the manager is a big reason to how the players react. You never see Moyes smile anymore. He is negative in everything he does.
Barkley and Gueye would have been played earlier if we look back at the beginning of when Moyes took over. He had a whole different positive smile and personality about him, he inspiered fans as well as players and youngsters. Now he looks pale and dead, negative and hateful. I think it is as simple as plain lack of happiness coming from Moyes, it affects the players, and it affects his tactics.
Now that we have won a game, I highly recommend that Moyes starts to smile and try to inspire his players. All the negative that surrounds this club is taking a big toll on the players, and I think that the BU needs to take a break until January, as the turnout for the protest has gone down from around 1000 to only 250. We need to lay off the club and Kenwright for a bit, and let them work in peace for a little while. At least until January.
We won ONLY because of the referee and I think we are far away from safe yet, this game just proves that, if we had ambition we would have gone all out attack once we were in lead, but the hoofing and clearances just took over. A telling sign we are in BIG trouble!!!
I think that something as basic as a smile from the manager is a big reason to how the players react. You never see Moyes smile anymore. He is negative in everything he does.
Barkley and Gueye would have been played earlier if we look back at the beginning of when Moyes took over. He had a whole different positive smile and personality about him, he inspiered fans as well as players and youngsters. Now he looks pale and dead, negative and hateful. I think it is as simple as plain lack of happiness coming from Moyes, it affects the players, and it affects his tactics.
Now that we have won a game, I highly recommend that Moyes starts to smile and try to inspire his players. All the negative that surrounds this club is taking a big toll on the players, and I think that the BU needs to take a break until January, as the turnout for the protest has gone down from around 1000 to only 250. We need to lay off the club and Kenwright for a bit, and let them work in peace for a little while. At least until January.
We won ONLY because of the referee and I think we are far away from safe yet, this game just proves that, if we had ambition we would have gone all out attack once we were in lead, but the hoofing and clearances just took over. A telling sign we are in BIG trouble!!!
Martin Mason # 18; you are right about 1983, I wonder if Mike England is available for sitting in the stand on Boxing Day...It seemed to work wonders for Kendall.
Karl Meighan # 19 I saw that 40-yd ball as well. Burnout schmurnout, the Kid will run and run all season just coz he's in the first team. There are players who have been burntout for ages AND playing injured AND still getting a game.
And while we are at it Moyes and Kenwright are both burntout, not to mention the whole business plan (ha) and Deffo the whole 'keep it tight and pinch one'.
Karl Meighan # 19 I saw that 40-yd ball as well. Burnout schmurnout, the Kid will run and run all season just coz he's in the first team. There are players who have been burntout for ages AND playing injured AND still getting a game.
And while we are at it Moyes and Kenwright are both burntout, not to mention the whole business plan (ha) and Deffo the whole 'keep it tight and pinch one'.
James Flynn
If you don't think things would improve with any of the great managers you've mentioned you're pissed.
If you don't think things would improve with any of the great managers you've mentioned you're pissed.
James how you working that out Bolton and Stoke may have spent more the last couple of seasons but Fellaini £15M, Baines £5M, Bily £9M... then add the Yak, Andy Johnson and even Lescott cost around £4.5M, so I would be suprised if Stoke have spent that much and amazed if Bolton have.
The Swansea manager has said their survival will depend on the points they pick up in their home games and away from home they will have a go... fuck me, Moyes won't even start with two up top against Wolves at home.
Swansea and Norwich have young hungry managers with it all to prove; Moyes, like our team, is stale... I ain't saying replace him but gameplans and tactics come from the top. Surely you can see that games we desperately need to win against teams at our current level, ie the bottom eight or nine, should be attacked, especially in home games, and that the found-out tactic of playing with one striker should be booted into touch?
I also wouldn't bank on finishing eighth which, apart from a couple of extra sheckles, is no great achievement in a league that (top four possibly apart) is full of poor and average teams.
Guile, quality, flair, creativity and a match winner or even striker seem to be alien words to Moyes. The way Moyes has the team set up at the moment, clean sheets are essential and a must but our defenders and defensive midfielders seem to have forgotten their jobs. For instance, the penalty yesterday, the ball should never have been allowed to get in the box... and how many times do I have to watch our corners or free-kicks in a dangerous area then, 20 seconds later, the opponents on the attack? Only Everton are capable of this.
The Swansea manager has said their survival will depend on the points they pick up in their home games and away from home they will have a go... fuck me, Moyes won't even start with two up top against Wolves at home.
Swansea and Norwich have young hungry managers with it all to prove; Moyes, like our team, is stale... I ain't saying replace him but gameplans and tactics come from the top. Surely you can see that games we desperately need to win against teams at our current level, ie the bottom eight or nine, should be attacked, especially in home games, and that the found-out tactic of playing with one striker should be booted into touch?
I also wouldn't bank on finishing eighth which, apart from a couple of extra sheckles, is no great achievement in a league that (top four possibly apart) is full of poor and average teams.
Guile, quality, flair, creativity and a match winner or even striker seem to be alien words to Moyes. The way Moyes has the team set up at the moment, clean sheets are essential and a must but our defenders and defensive midfielders seem to have forgotten their jobs. For instance, the penalty yesterday, the ball should never have been allowed to get in the box... and how many times do I have to watch our corners or free-kicks in a dangerous area then, 20 seconds later, the opponents on the attack? Only Everton are capable of this.
I just for wish for once Moyes would try something different. At the end of the day he is paid a fortune, so time to start earning it.
James Martin#22, We were beaten by the top teams, but it was only the Chelsea game that was easy for them. The Man City game, when they went 1-0 up Mancini subbed an attacking player for an defender to consolidate, and Man U did a Moyes and camped in the 18yard box, whereas the Newcastle game we were undone by an OG and a wonder strike, and of course against the RS we were undone by another wonder strike by the boy Atkinson.
OK it all sounds like manager-speak excuses, but I haven't seen Everton play particularly well, but they haven't been under the cosh, like in the days of Man U in their pomp, or Arsenal, when it was painful to watch, almost like watching a pack of hounds savaging a hare
OK it all sounds like manager-speak excuses, but I haven't seen Everton play particularly well, but they haven't been under the cosh, like in the days of Man U in their pomp, or Arsenal, when it was painful to watch, almost like watching a pack of hounds savaging a hare
There are two kinds of problems, those that can be influenced and those that cannot.
Moyes cannot be held responsible for the dire lack of investment that has been afforded him that has resulted in players being sold and a dreadfully stale squad.
However he can be held responsible for the boring, negative tactics that are churned out week after week.
5,000 supporters have voted with their feet this season and I suspect for a similar number this season will be the final straw and gates will drop further next year. I have had a season ticket for over 20 years but I find myself questioning whether to renew next season. The reasons are not the lack of investment, they are:?
1. The stale negative and predictable tactics trotted out every single game.
2. The fact that we play Tim Cahill whenever he is available when he is clearly past his best and has actually looked more of a threat coming off the bench.
3. The fact that Moyes never leaves a player up when defending a corner.
4. The fact that when we go ahead against a shit side with 10 minutes to go we drag off an attacker immediately and make a defensive change, basically inviting the said shit opposition to attack us.
5. The fact that Moyes won't pick a team that provides any excitment or anticipation before a game.
6. The fact that at every pre-match interview Moyes tells us how good the opposition are, how good their manager is, how difficult a game it is going to be, and how we haven't got any money.
I'm basically sick of Moyes and his negative shit tactics. Yes, the players have under-performed this season but the buck stops with Moyes.
Change or piss off.
Moyes cannot be held responsible for the dire lack of investment that has been afforded him that has resulted in players being sold and a dreadfully stale squad.
However he can be held responsible for the boring, negative tactics that are churned out week after week.
5,000 supporters have voted with their feet this season and I suspect for a similar number this season will be the final straw and gates will drop further next year. I have had a season ticket for over 20 years but I find myself questioning whether to renew next season. The reasons are not the lack of investment, they are:?
1. The stale negative and predictable tactics trotted out every single game.
2. The fact that we play Tim Cahill whenever he is available when he is clearly past his best and has actually looked more of a threat coming off the bench.
3. The fact that Moyes never leaves a player up when defending a corner.
4. The fact that when we go ahead against a shit side with 10 minutes to go we drag off an attacker immediately and make a defensive change, basically inviting the said shit opposition to attack us.
5. The fact that Moyes won't pick a team that provides any excitment or anticipation before a game.
6. The fact that at every pre-match interview Moyes tells us how good the opposition are, how good their manager is, how difficult a game it is going to be, and how we haven't got any money.
I'm basically sick of Moyes and his negative shit tactics. Yes, the players have under-performed this season but the buck stops with Moyes.
Change or piss off.
It would be interesting to see what Sir Alex could do with our current squad of players?
No doubt, we'd be in top 4 right now.
I rest my case.
TIME TO MOVE ON MOYES!
No doubt, we'd be in top 4 right now.
I rest my case.
TIME TO MOVE ON MOYES!
Yesterday, when Wolves were defending corners, I saw they put a player on the half-way line and another in the gap between the area and the half-way line D
That forced Hibbert to stay on the half-way line and Coleman to mark the "floater"
When Wolves cleared the corner, they were immediately on the attack - clever, I thought
I'm sure Chelsea used S W-P in this way as an attacking outlet but perhaps this is a new tactic that Moyesey, although "consistently leatning" hasn't cottoned on to yet?
That forced Hibbert to stay on the half-way line and Coleman to mark the "floater"
When Wolves cleared the corner, they were immediately on the attack - clever, I thought
I'm sure Chelsea used S W-P in this way as an attacking outlet but perhaps this is a new tactic that Moyesey, although "consistently leatning" hasn't cottoned on to yet?
James Flynn commented: "By the by - You mentioned Beckford twice in two different lights. In which way was Moyes right? Wrong?"
Well neither was wrong, it's your ignorance and failure to interpret data correctly that's wrong.
I stated Beckford was one our best players; well he was leading scorer last season and seeing that only our defenders seem to hit the net this season, that seems like a fair assessment. I then commented on his inability to hold the ball up, something that may well have improved the longer he played in the PL. All this justified my belief that he wasn't suited to the lone striker role.
This doesn't mean he's not a good player, just that the system never suited his style. So in future, could you please read the post correctly and if you are having difficulty understanding, then that probably explains your own ridiculous post.
Well neither was wrong, it's your ignorance and failure to interpret data correctly that's wrong.
I stated Beckford was one our best players; well he was leading scorer last season and seeing that only our defenders seem to hit the net this season, that seems like a fair assessment. I then commented on his inability to hold the ball up, something that may well have improved the longer he played in the PL. All this justified my belief that he wasn't suited to the lone striker role.
This doesn't mean he's not a good player, just that the system never suited his style. So in future, could you please read the post correctly and if you are having difficulty understanding, then that probably explains your own ridiculous post.
All I can say is that things at Everton are stagnant.
We are in limbo and I don't see it changing for the better.
I can't say that I've researched other managers who may have the right credentials to make the changes I wish and hope for. However, I'm sure that those at Everton FC tasked with such a job could find plenty of candidates.
Nigel Adkins is one that comes to mind. He got a poorly financed club like Scunthorpe into the Championship and is now working well at Southampton. Not only on the field but behind the scenes as well.
We have to get away from this mentality that there is no-one else around and that Moyes is the best option we have.
He's had longer than most other manager's in the game. Things are now stale and we must have a change or else!
We are in limbo and I don't see it changing for the better.
I can't say that I've researched other managers who may have the right credentials to make the changes I wish and hope for. However, I'm sure that those at Everton FC tasked with such a job could find plenty of candidates.
Nigel Adkins is one that comes to mind. He got a poorly financed club like Scunthorpe into the Championship and is now working well at Southampton. Not only on the field but behind the scenes as well.
We have to get away from this mentality that there is no-one else around and that Moyes is the best option we have.
He's had longer than most other manager's in the game. Things are now stale and we must have a change or else!
Wolves came for a point and nearly got it; we played the usual system, nothing new. There seems to be a lack of ideas and that pisses me off. Why bring Bily on as he lost whatever confidence he had. Give Gueye a go, he cant be any worse.
Heard Davie Weir might be coming back to join the coaching staff... FUCK ME, ANOTHER DEFENDER thats all we need. Nothing against Weir but for fuck's sake there must be some attack-minded thinking coaches about.
In the end we need them 3pts, that's what we got, thank fuck. If only we could find a striker on the cheap in January, I think it would make a big difference.
Feel better now I've had me rant and my hangover is going. Love the hangover after a win ? hope they keep coming.
Heard Davie Weir might be coming back to join the coaching staff... FUCK ME, ANOTHER DEFENDER thats all we need. Nothing against Weir but for fuck's sake there must be some attack-minded thinking coaches about.
In the end we need them 3pts, that's what we got, thank fuck. If only we could find a striker on the cheap in January, I think it would make a big difference.
Feel better now I've had me rant and my hangover is going. Love the hangover after a win ? hope they keep coming.
Was so glad we got three points yesterday ? but my god we where poor. The team played like strangers .
There seems no game plan at the moment ? very hit and miss.
There seems no game plan at the moment ? very hit and miss.
I think we have a strong backline and a strong midfield. The only thing that lets us down are the attackers. Osman isn't cutting it as our creative player. Cahill isn't scoring or posing any goal threat and Saha isn't doing.... anything really.
Start blooding the youngsters into first team contenders. Vellios is doing incredibly well; Gueye as an out-and out-striker would do well; Silva and Baxter are doing good things for the clubs they are loaned to. If Moyes spends all of the transfer budget on a playmaker, which is all we need really, we will start to climb the ladder.
Start blooding the youngsters into first team contenders. Vellios is doing incredibly well; Gueye as an out-and out-striker would do well; Silva and Baxter are doing good things for the clubs they are loaned to. If Moyes spends all of the transfer budget on a playmaker, which is all we need really, we will start to climb the ladder.
Maybe I'm deluded but I don't think we are as bad as some are making out. We have decent players in our side: Baines, Jagielka Fellaini & Rodwell are good players... add to that Drenthe, Coleman and Barkley. We have a strong spine to build round and all except Jags are yet to enter their prime.
I'd actually love to see Moyes at Everton with real money to spend but it ain't going to happen. Presently, I'd like Moyes to go, he's lost his passion and that and his ability to spot an unpolished diamond were his greatest attributes. He's gone stale, like our team, and we need new ideas ? too boring and predictable.
I disagree Peter, Moyes's reaction with Baines's penalty showed it's very much alive. Eyes bulging all over the place!
What is wrong? On the pitch, it is our tactics. They are overly negative and defensive and they come straight from our manager.
This has nothing to do with money and everything to do with attitude. We still have a decent team capable of playing good football. Generating a positive attitude to the game and the way you play does not cost money, but is our manager ever prepared to "have a go" at teams? No. Never. Not even against the weakest teams in the division, at Goodison Park!
I remember seeing DM in an interview after the Fulham game when Drenthe had scored a screamer and set up Saha for the second, and all he did was mumble on about how Royston didn't track John Arne Riise as well as he should have. Always concerned about not conceding goals rather than focussing on the most important part of the game... scoring goals! It was at that point that I realised that we're stuck with this shite and Moyes is never going to change.
I'm bored of Moyes and the way he sets his team up to play week in week out, no matter how shite the opposition are. I'm sorry, but three points against Wolves doesn't change that. I'm clearly not as easily pleased as some of you.
This has nothing to do with money and everything to do with attitude. We still have a decent team capable of playing good football. Generating a positive attitude to the game and the way you play does not cost money, but is our manager ever prepared to "have a go" at teams? No. Never. Not even against the weakest teams in the division, at Goodison Park!
I remember seeing DM in an interview after the Fulham game when Drenthe had scored a screamer and set up Saha for the second, and all he did was mumble on about how Royston didn't track John Arne Riise as well as he should have. Always concerned about not conceding goals rather than focussing on the most important part of the game... scoring goals! It was at that point that I realised that we're stuck with this shite and Moyes is never going to change.
I'm bored of Moyes and the way he sets his team up to play week in week out, no matter how shite the opposition are. I'm sorry, but three points against Wolves doesn't change that. I'm clearly not as easily pleased as some of you.
Nothing will change at Goodison until Moyes goes ? even if money is made available to him. He has had his chance when we did have some money and he has bought a lot of crap.
He got a real bargain in Cahill and that's all. He did get Beckford cheap but failed to realise this lad was the only offensive player with any speed and after getting the goal of the season against Chelski he sells him.
On top of that, Moyes has a system that only he understands ? oh! and maybe Osman and Hibbert ? his pets.
Enough said.
He got a real bargain in Cahill and that's all. He did get Beckford cheap but failed to realise this lad was the only offensive player with any speed and after getting the goal of the season against Chelski he sells him.
On top of that, Moyes has a system that only he understands ? oh! and maybe Osman and Hibbert ? his pets.
Enough said.
Arteta has started every match for Arsenal since his move......
Our squad is so thin and saggy that it's churlish to say we ain't missing him.
Our squad is so thin and saggy that it's churlish to say we ain't missing him.
Thanks Nick,, sincerely hope that's case. I don' t go the match anymore so only go off what I read and press conferences etc. I loved the moyes who said it's a matter of time before we get back up the top, he has no problems with high expectations etc etc. The Moyes I see is frightened to attack, change a game, sell players, drop egos ? perhaps it is all cos his hands are tied but I get impression it's more than that.
Hope you're right, Nick, as I still want to believe in Moyes.
Hope you're right, Nick, as I still want to believe in Moyes.
"What is wrong? On the pitch, it is our tactics" ? What about players who miss from one yard out, players who pull out of challenges, defenders who lump it upfield with no hope of a positive outcome, the other 3 defenders don't do it so why does the 4th?
Tactics are part of the problem but not the whole problem.
Tactics are part of the problem but not the whole problem.
In my opinion, it's Moyes's dated tactics that have been found out. Other clubs that play the same tactics, like Bolton, Wolves, Stoke and Villa are also struggling. City were awful when they played 4-5-1 despite all the money they spent. What does Cahill do anymore? He doesn't score goals and contributes nothing to the side, yet he still plays. We deserve to go down when we play football like that, Wolves are just as bad.
The Yak has been sold ? look how well he's done for Blackburn. Arteta has been sold ? look how well he's done for Arsenal. It's clear that management is the problem not the individual players.
I'm embarrassed to be a Everton fan now, the football we play belongs on a muddy field in Kirkdale on a Sunday morning. Even they play with 2 strikers up front. The Blue Union are fighting a losing battle as everbody knows that we have problems on the pitch not just off it.
The Yak has been sold ? look how well he's done for Blackburn. Arteta has been sold ? look how well he's done for Arsenal. It's clear that management is the problem not the individual players.
I'm embarrassed to be a Everton fan now, the football we play belongs on a muddy field in Kirkdale on a Sunday morning. Even they play with 2 strikers up front. The Blue Union are fighting a losing battle as everbody knows that we have problems on the pitch not just off it.
Chris, I agree totally. Tony, what does Moyes do when a player misses from three yards? If he's a regular scorer then Moyes sticks with him. If he's Tim Cahill who can't buy a goal then he drops him.
With Bolton & Stoke next up it might be a good time to change our formation. Given what I seen on Saturday I would deploy Vellios as our front runner and move Saha deeper into Cahill's position.
This would allow Vellios the chance to work the opposition's back line with his aerial ability and willingness to close down opponents. I think it's pretty clear to see the lad wants to make it and probabley sees this as the chance of a life time given what's happening to his compatriots back in Greece.
Every time he makes someone hurry a clearance or gets a block in it gives us a chance of winning possesion back, makes us able to play higher up the pitch with our better players on the ball in more space and reduces the prospect of us being outgunned in our own half.
If we could get Drenth doing this with the same conviction on the left and Coleman on the right we could give a lot of teams a very difficult time.
For me Cahill's a spent force and should now be used as a impact player, whereas Saha still has a lot to offer but not as front runner. It's unreasonable to expect him to lead the line every week but in a deeper role in more space we could fully utilise his undoubted football ability.
My 11 if fit would be as follows:
Howard
Coleman Heitinga Jags Baines
Barkley Rodwell Fellaini Drenthe
Saha
Vellios
This would allow Vellios the chance to work the opposition's back line with his aerial ability and willingness to close down opponents. I think it's pretty clear to see the lad wants to make it and probabley sees this as the chance of a life time given what's happening to his compatriots back in Greece.
Every time he makes someone hurry a clearance or gets a block in it gives us a chance of winning possesion back, makes us able to play higher up the pitch with our better players on the ball in more space and reduces the prospect of us being outgunned in our own half.
If we could get Drenth doing this with the same conviction on the left and Coleman on the right we could give a lot of teams a very difficult time.
For me Cahill's a spent force and should now be used as a impact player, whereas Saha still has a lot to offer but not as front runner. It's unreasonable to expect him to lead the line every week but in a deeper role in more space we could fully utilise his undoubted football ability.
My 11 if fit would be as follows:
Howard
Coleman Heitinga Jags Baines
Barkley Rodwell Fellaini Drenthe
Saha
Vellios
I would suggest partly our problem right now is intelligence on the pitch or the lack of. Arteta & Pinnear gave us a quality that quite frankly we no longer possess.
The players we have in the midfield are young and quite inexperienced. They are still learning the game and our league is a hard one. We can't expect to knock anybody over anymore.
From the little I've seen this season, far too often the wrong option is taken or the right option is taken but executed badly. Yes we can criticise Moyes but he is playing to our perceived strengths.
I agree we could go gung ho and attack teams and play an open game but if we did I would expect to lose more often than not. SImply because we don't have the strike force to convert the chances.
It does frustrate me when I see Cahill start, I can't honestly see what he gives the team. Bily is a no hope, maybe Rodwell can play as the attacking mid but he's out for a few weeks. The idea of playing the youngsters is appealing but not if we're playing as badly as we are.
Against Wolves (I only watched the first half), we defended too deeply and as an attacking threat, well we attack with little or no conviction, like an earlier poster...we don't appear to have a plan.
Many concerns but right now I'm happy with three points and to be honest I don't care how we get them. A couple of wiins will move us up the table...if we get them of course!
The players we have in the midfield are young and quite inexperienced. They are still learning the game and our league is a hard one. We can't expect to knock anybody over anymore.
From the little I've seen this season, far too often the wrong option is taken or the right option is taken but executed badly. Yes we can criticise Moyes but he is playing to our perceived strengths.
I agree we could go gung ho and attack teams and play an open game but if we did I would expect to lose more often than not. SImply because we don't have the strike force to convert the chances.
It does frustrate me when I see Cahill start, I can't honestly see what he gives the team. Bily is a no hope, maybe Rodwell can play as the attacking mid but he's out for a few weeks. The idea of playing the youngsters is appealing but not if we're playing as badly as we are.
Against Wolves (I only watched the first half), we defended too deeply and as an attacking threat, well we attack with little or no conviction, like an earlier poster...we don't appear to have a plan.
Many concerns but right now I'm happy with three points and to be honest I don't care how we get them. A couple of wiins will move us up the table...if we get them of course!
Everton's midfield is the real problem. We have been short a real ball winner for years. Fellaini tried that roll and committed too many fouls as did Neville,Heitinga,Graveson and Carsley who were all a little slow anyway.
Arteta was not a big ball winner but had other attributes and Osman has always been feeble in that regard.
Drenthe and Coleman have lots of running which leaves Rodwell who is probably the best one to look to if he adds steel to his game. The other one of note is Barkley who could be the real deal if given a run in the team.
Until we get the midfield sorted out we will continue to be a struggling team as that is the area which keeps the pressure of the back line and adds support to the strikers.
We will be in for the usual physical battle at Bolton so please Moyes select the stronger players.
Arteta was not a big ball winner but had other attributes and Osman has always been feeble in that regard.
Drenthe and Coleman have lots of running which leaves Rodwell who is probably the best one to look to if he adds steel to his game. The other one of note is Barkley who could be the real deal if given a run in the team.
Until we get the midfield sorted out we will continue to be a struggling team as that is the area which keeps the pressure of the back line and adds support to the strikers.
We will be in for the usual physical battle at Bolton so please Moyes select the stronger players.
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1 Posted 19/11/2011 at 21:39:29
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"There isn't a player... who should be anything other than utterly embarassed..."
Yeah, it's all Moyes's fault!