Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Best of the Rest
23 Comments: Amazing isn't it? Two weeks ago, 17th in the table, Moyes is a toss pot and we are going down... doom and gloom!
One dodgy win against poor old Wolves and another against 10-man Bolton and suddenly we are where we should be, Best of the Rest, 8th in the league, top of the the no-money teams, and things are all rosey and good!
Amazingly, without Rodwell, Distin and Drenthe, we produce an acceptable performance and the pro-Moyes boys are up in arms again.
Once more, no subs before 72 mins, Barkley and Gueye getting about 10 mins between them. Vellios once more shows he can do more in 15 mins than Louis Haha can do in in 75.
So, what will Moyes do next week against Stoke? What should happen is that the absolutely dreadful Osman and Saha should be benched, Vellios and Rodwell (if fit) should start.
Will this happen? Will it fuck!
Wouldn't even surprise me if Distin and Drenthe were back in favour! I don't know why but I still get a buzz about Bily in the starting line up. Give him a chance now, he did well today and should be in the eleven next week!
Heitinga looked good too! Think he should be given a run now. We did keep a clean sheet today!
Baines was absolutely magnificent today. What a player he is. Coleman was great too, a real threat every time he got the ball, even though he was up against a really good left back.
So, come on DM, get Rodders and Velli in next week and we will cruise past the RS in no time! ... Anyone think this will happen?
Tony Cheek, Posted 26/11/2011 at 23:55:17
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
To be honest I thought Coleman was our best today. Not neccesarily the classiest but he scares teams and when he's flying, he changes games with his pace. Robinson actually did a good job but he had a terrifying afternoon - he won't face many scarier sights than Gump bearing down on him.
Hard to tell what that performance means given the sending off but going to Bolton and beating 10 men 2-0 is what you'd expect a good side to do. Two on the trot starts to breed a bit of confidence - and confidence is a big part of breaking from dull tippy-tappy crap and actually trying to be creative and scoring goals. Our fixtures now are kind (Arsenal aside) so lets see how we sit after Christmas.
Time for Vellios to feature for longer at home against average sides - even if it's just to show the team that you can EARN a place in a Moyes side.
Hard to tell what that performance means given the sending off but going to Bolton and beating 10 men 2-0 is what you'd expect a good side to do. Two on the trot starts to breed a bit of confidence - and confidence is a big part of breaking from dull tippy-tappy crap and actually trying to be creative and scoring goals. Our fixtures now are kind (Arsenal aside) so lets see how we sit after Christmas.
Time for Vellios to feature for longer at home against average sides - even if it's just to show the team that you can EARN a place in a Moyes side.
Agree James - despite the improvement, we still saw his deficiencies. But for Moyes, it's now or never with him so expect to see him start next week.
I'd love to see Gueye get 30 mins against Stoke just to see what pace on both flanks could mean for us.
Lets face it, we'll have 55-60% possession in that game so might as well take a few chances.
I'd love to see Gueye get 30 mins against Stoke just to see what pace on both flanks could mean for us.
Lets face it, we'll have 55-60% possession in that game so might as well take a few chances.
Ernie (3) - I'm counting more on Bily seeing his career as now or never. After all, if he was producing in training, he'd get his chance. He's just not good enough, mentally or physically, for the EPL.
Pretend to try hard Bily these next few weeks, playing or not. Show prospective buyers they should plunk down the gelt for your services.
You lazy fuck you.
Pretend to try hard Bily these next few weeks, playing or not. Show prospective buyers they should plunk down the gelt for your services.
You lazy fuck you.
Moyes won't make any changes he isn't forced into... well maybe one if he is feeling really really super-adventurous.
Barkley won't start to feature until he signs his new contract; even then, it will be sparingly.
My own prefference would be to have Saha in the Cahill role and Vellios up front.
So, all-in-all we shouldn't be holding our breath for a Moyes radical attacking revolution.
The "leave Moyes alone, he's doing okay, he always turns it around" faction will point to 8th for proof, but the fact is ? 8th or 17th ? we are still what passes for poor and are being buoyed up by the even worse failings of others and I can't see us as the season goes on reeling in the 7th and 6th placed teams, with our "keep it tight and pinch one, 2 pages of instructions for a 5-min sub, track back..." etc.
Baring a collapse of Euro-zone proportions, I don't think we will go down.
So is this as good as it gets? Sad to say, yes.
Barkley won't start to feature until he signs his new contract; even then, it will be sparingly.
My own prefference would be to have Saha in the Cahill role and Vellios up front.
So, all-in-all we shouldn't be holding our breath for a Moyes radical attacking revolution.
The "leave Moyes alone, he's doing okay, he always turns it around" faction will point to 8th for proof, but the fact is ? 8th or 17th ? we are still what passes for poor and are being buoyed up by the even worse failings of others and I can't see us as the season goes on reeling in the 7th and 6th placed teams, with our "keep it tight and pinch one, 2 pages of instructions for a 5-min sub, track back..." etc.
Baring a collapse of Euro-zone proportions, I don't think we will go down.
So is this as good as it gets? Sad to say, yes.
I've got a horrible feeling that Drenthe has got on Moyes bad side. All this stuff about tracking back (pure crap if you ask me, our most attacking player with pace and Moyes wants him thinking defence, despite having Englands best LB on that wing with him), then you have players coming out about how they'll help him settle (add Osman to the Moyes mouth piece) and then he's injured for the Bolton match?
For once it seems luck is with us. 10-man Bolton, last minute penalty for Wolves, that Fulham miss. Let's not forget that if things didn't happen we'd be up shit creek right now. I like Saha, but he is not a lone striker, especially not at his age and fitness level. Again, Vellios showed he can score. Will he start next match, doubt it.
All we're asking from Moyes is a bit of common sense. By the way, I fear for Barkley. Feel so sorry for him, wouldn't blame him if he left in Jan. Also, whats happened to McFadden? Not that I care that much, I was just wondering how Billy started if McFadden was fit... poor Bily, under another manager he'd score quite a few!
For once it seems luck is with us. 10-man Bolton, last minute penalty for Wolves, that Fulham miss. Let's not forget that if things didn't happen we'd be up shit creek right now. I like Saha, but he is not a lone striker, especially not at his age and fitness level. Again, Vellios showed he can score. Will he start next match, doubt it.
All we're asking from Moyes is a bit of common sense. By the way, I fear for Barkley. Feel so sorry for him, wouldn't blame him if he left in Jan. Also, whats happened to McFadden? Not that I care that much, I was just wondering how Billy started if McFadden was fit... poor Bily, under another manager he'd score quite a few!
"Again, Vellios showed he can score. Will he start next match, doubt it."
Probably becuase he showed us in the Fulham game that he's not fit enough for 45 minutes never mind 90.
Good impact sub so far.
Probably becuase he showed us in the Fulham game that he's not fit enough for 45 minutes never mind 90.
Good impact sub so far.
Going by the various match reports, for next game at home against Stoke, I would like to see:
Saha, Vellios, Drenthe, Bilyaletdinov, Fellaini, Rodwell, Baines, Heitinga, Jagielka, Hibbert, Howard
Very ambitious, knowing Moyes, but this is the least we should be doing to bottom half teams at home.
Personally, I don't see Moyes keeping all 3 of his favourites - Neville, Osman & Cahill - on the bench.
Saha, Vellios, Drenthe, Bilyaletdinov, Fellaini, Rodwell, Baines, Heitinga, Jagielka, Hibbert, Howard
Very ambitious, knowing Moyes, but this is the least we should be doing to bottom half teams at home.
Personally, I don't see Moyes keeping all 3 of his favourites - Neville, Osman & Cahill - on the bench.
Moyes will not start Bily, Drenthe & Coleman in the same game. The thing is, I would choose Drenthe first, but Bily & Coleman were brilliant yesterday and one of them would have to be dropped. Also Barkley MUST be starting ahead of Osman.
Good result, better performance.
It's funny really though, any who criticises Moyes after a run of defeats, are called knee-jerkers, one scrappy win over Wolves, and a good result over Bolton, and all of a sudden we're great again, Europe has been mentioned, talk about knee-jerk!
It's funny really though, any who criticises Moyes after a run of defeats, are called knee-jerkers, one scrappy win over Wolves, and a good result over Bolton, and all of a sudden we're great again, Europe has been mentioned, talk about knee-jerk!
We have a bad run of fixtures, lost some confidence, we will finish top 8 this season and all the knee jerkers saying we'd get relegated will look stupid. Again.
A few weeks ago on here you all embarrsed yourselves. I'm not saying we're great team, just there is a lot of shite in the Premier League where we can pick up points.
All the talk of relegation was embarrassing after 9 games of the season.
A few weeks ago on here you all embarrsed yourselves. I'm not saying we're great team, just there is a lot of shite in the Premier League where we can pick up points.
All the talk of relegation was embarrassing after 9 games of the season.
We probably kept a clean sheet as they played with 10 men for 70 minutes of the game. We will cruise past the RS in no time? Your middle name isnt 'Tongue In' by any chance is it?
Great to hear us regular away fans singing our manager's name. Proves that the fans who actually go to the match are behind him.
Nice one Brian... I've never heard that one before.... not!
Ryan "All the talk of relegation was embarrassing after 9 games of the season."
But it's okay for you to tell us we will finish top 8 after only 12 games into the season?
At the end of the day, we could lose the next couple of games, and be right back down there.
But it's okay for you to tell us we will finish top 8 after only 12 games into the season?
At the end of the day, we could lose the next couple of games, and be right back down there.
In terms of wide men the solution is fairly simple: Coleman to right back, his natural position.
The headline of this article is the same as one I thought of writing. It seems with the table the way it is (although I believe we've dropped to 9th following Villa's point earlier) we are quite simply not very interesting.
People love to come on here and slag off Moyes, or certain players, and offer unique insights into why we are or are not going to do this that or the other. The simple and possibly awful truth is beginning to appear to be that we're better than all the shit teams and not as good as all the good ones. There may not be any more to it than that at the moment. Yes, we lost 5 out of 6, but they were against 5 of the top 6. Now we've won two because we've played two of the weakest teams. We'll play Stoke next week, I expect a win, but even if we do we'll get told its because Stoke are shit (and they currently have an awful record on the Sunday after they've played in Europe on Thurs).
One thing seems clear to me though, you can't have it both ways. If we lose to better teams its because they're good, not because we're shit, or if we lose to worse teams its because we're good, not they're shit. You can't say when we lose its because we're shit and when we win its because the opposition are shit. Its a completely disingenuous position that seems to make a deliberate point of seeing things in the worst possible light. Why would anyone want to make that choice, and if they do, why would they want to put it into words and share it with as many people as possible?
If you're going to slag us off when we lose, you can bloody well praise us when we win.
The headline of this article is the same as one I thought of writing. It seems with the table the way it is (although I believe we've dropped to 9th following Villa's point earlier) we are quite simply not very interesting.
People love to come on here and slag off Moyes, or certain players, and offer unique insights into why we are or are not going to do this that or the other. The simple and possibly awful truth is beginning to appear to be that we're better than all the shit teams and not as good as all the good ones. There may not be any more to it than that at the moment. Yes, we lost 5 out of 6, but they were against 5 of the top 6. Now we've won two because we've played two of the weakest teams. We'll play Stoke next week, I expect a win, but even if we do we'll get told its because Stoke are shit (and they currently have an awful record on the Sunday after they've played in Europe on Thurs).
One thing seems clear to me though, you can't have it both ways. If we lose to better teams its because they're good, not because we're shit, or if we lose to worse teams its because we're good, not they're shit. You can't say when we lose its because we're shit and when we win its because the opposition are shit. Its a completely disingenuous position that seems to make a deliberate point of seeing things in the worst possible light. Why would anyone want to make that choice, and if they do, why would they want to put it into words and share it with as many people as possible?
If you're going to slag us off when we lose, you can bloody well praise us when we win.
Mike, you say, "We're better than all the shit teams"
You then go on to say, "I expect a win, but even if we do, we'll get told it's because Stoke are shit."
So if anyone does come on and say we beat them because they are shit, then won't that be right, because you have said we're better than all the 'Shit' teams?
You then go on to say, "I expect a win, but even if we do, we'll get told it's because Stoke are shit."
So if anyone does come on and say we beat them because they are shit, then won't that be right, because you have said we're better than all the 'Shit' teams?
Mike, you are totally right.
Some people are only willing to see the negatives in anything the club does and so refuse to give any credit, check out post 6 for a great example - mention some good luck we've had (although not entirely sure refs making correct decisions counts as luck) but don't mention any bad luck (injuries, Rodwell sending off, Kompany not being sent off, potential pen on Gueye against Utd etc).
It's tiresome in the extreme.
Personally I'd like to see more of Vellios but i think how he's been used so far has been successful so can see why they may want to keep it as it is. Also the people who are complaining that he doesn't get as much time as he should don't want to give any credit to the bloke who actually brought him in - paying 350 times less than a certain other club paid for a striker who appears to be of similar age, style and ability (and who is also often used from the bench).
Some people are only willing to see the negatives in anything the club does and so refuse to give any credit, check out post 6 for a great example - mention some good luck we've had (although not entirely sure refs making correct decisions counts as luck) but don't mention any bad luck (injuries, Rodwell sending off, Kompany not being sent off, potential pen on Gueye against Utd etc).
It's tiresome in the extreme.
Personally I'd like to see more of Vellios but i think how he's been used so far has been successful so can see why they may want to keep it as it is. Also the people who are complaining that he doesn't get as much time as he should don't want to give any credit to the bloke who actually brought him in - paying 350 times less than a certain other club paid for a striker who appears to be of similar age, style and ability (and who is also often used from the bench).
Even by Hibbert's standards his performance against Bolton was abysmal, almost handing them an equaliser with his dreadful passing and then his usual 'Bambi on ice' routine. If Moyes doesn't want to play Coleman there (he does enough work at RB helping out the Sunday league player already) then I hope he brings in a replacement soon, and we can get back to playing with 11 players in the side.
Jump on that bandwagon Mick!!
Coleman isn't a right back!! He can't tackle and gets lost and out of position. But it's ok to slag hibbert for one mistake on a bog of a pitch.
Coleman is a one trick pony. Head down and run like the wind with the ball bouncing off his shins and knees. May as well play dwain chamberlain as he's fast too!! The shit that gets written on this site is at times laughable and most of the stuff written about Coleman falls into that catergory. He cost £60k for a reason.
Coleman isn't a right back!! He can't tackle and gets lost and out of position. But it's ok to slag hibbert for one mistake on a bog of a pitch.
Coleman is a one trick pony. Head down and run like the wind with the ball bouncing off his shins and knees. May as well play dwain chamberlain as he's fast too!! The shit that gets written on this site is at times laughable and most of the stuff written about Coleman falls into that catergory. He cost £60k for a reason.
Tony (14) - Do what I do when I hear 'careful with that axe'. I tell them if they give me their address, I'll send them a fiver - I tell them it's a fiver I've been saving specially for the millionth person to make that 'gag'.
Coleman up against a really good LB? Is that Sarcasm? Isn't Robinson Bolton's LB?
"His usual Bambi on ice routine" - Eh?
Mick, Moyes has tried to buy replacements for him but Hibbert just gets on with it and ends up back in the team.
Moyes has brought in Jacobsen, he couldn't hack it; Heitinga, he couldn't hack it; Neville has been displaced.
Next you will be stating that he has given away loads of pens and been sent off many times... another fallacy.
Mick, Moyes has tried to buy replacements for him but Hibbert just gets on with it and ends up back in the team.
Moyes has brought in Jacobsen, he couldn't hack it; Heitinga, he couldn't hack it; Neville has been displaced.
Next you will be stating that he has given away loads of pens and been sent off many times... another fallacy.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 27/11/2011 at 02:30:16
Report abuse
He did a thing or two today. Good fellow. But into year 4, a thing or two is the best he has to offer.