Where to now, Roberto?

If we had a manager in place, he could now be picking over their bones and on the blower to Macmanaman.

Kenwright out!

Then got all shifty when asked if he'll be there next season.

Perhaps, it is worth pointing out that the transfer window hasn't opened, the squad finished sixth this year, Kenwright appointed a manager whose record in transforming the club secured him the managerial job at one of the largest clubs in the world and that comments like this will undoubtedly cause Eugene and his ilk to vomit more bile onto ToffeeWeb

Seriously, tale a look at the table, after the top 7, which includes us, I only see mediocrity below us. So that's a great platform for any new manager to build from.

It's hard not to like Martinez but I'd take Maclaren or Hoddle over him every time. At least they've got the right kind of big game experience.

What I'm trying to say is that you have got to consider a lot of factors as to how a club performs and finishes at the end of the season. What I see in Martinez is qualities that lacked in David Moyes. A positive approach to football, and somebody willing to attack the big boys and win instead of just approaching the game with apathy in David Moyes' 'knife to a gunfight' philosophy.

Back to Martinez - it does worry me how shite Wigan are. The only rationale that I can come up with to justify us taking him on, is that his style will be more suitable with better players. Some managers are built for PL stability (Big Sam) - maybe Martinez is not.

Another worry is that with the bit of money he's had, he's signed some real shite. Moyes was a real bargain hunter - do we need someone who can search out hidden gems again?

Thinking about it it makes perfect sense from the clubs perspective................!

2-1 up against a dead rubber Swansea, to take it to the final day, and they're still playing tippy tappy football from the back.

Tactically naive, but great to watch.

Over to you Bill.

Talking of which, now that Davina's gone to Man U, isn't it time we had a proper female manager at Goodison? I mean, instead of a cross-dresser?

It also has to be a manager who is used to winning and Martinez doesn't fit the bill, he probably should have gone to Villa when he had the chance, because no manager wants to be associated with the R word.

Me personally and for what it's worth, I fancy Klinsmann. Not as a manager I just fancy him!! Only messing, I actually think he would do a great job, bring in quality players, investment and get us top media exposure.

People on this site have stuck up for Martinez more than we did for Moyes and his is and may never be our manager.

Final thought, Everton, our club, my club have most years in the top flight. That is special to me, very special. This club is special, I love it, I wish I could go very game. Please Blues don't my myopic. Think big, see the bigger picture, not just some team down the road who have recently been relegated and picking over heir team for one player and a manager who refused to change his style of play at the cost of his teams top flight status.

Stuart O'Malley, ok I grant you Hoddle is a bit of a long shot although he did seem to be in the first wave of the 'modern' manager. McLaren, on the other hand, has big game experience, has won a title, has contacts in Europe, is tactically switched on and I've heard he threw his umbrella away. Don't get me wrong here, I'm just running ideas up the flag pole.

The shite employed a dinosaur and finished 8th then spent a fortune and employed a visionary 'modern' manager and finished 7th. Maybe what we need is a safe pair of hands to oversee that fact that we are realing from the loss of a very long serving dickhead. (Sorry, I mean long serving manager.)

Anyone who argues that Moyes was a success because he got a team punching above their weight, has got to give Martinez the same credit. The big difference is that Martinez actually managed to win the FA Cup, and it took him a lot less than 11 years to do so.

Arsene Wenger recently described Martinez as a "young Wenger". To be honest, I'd rather have a 'young Wenger' (Martinez) than a supposed 'young Fergie' (Moyes)... or even worse, a 'young Moyes' (Malky)!!!

They are Wigan! A Sunday morning club in a massive rugby town who have performed miracles by lasting this long and now even have an FA Cup to show for the efforts. Wigan's defence is shocking because they have poor defenders.

Everton have excellent defenders and I would be more than happy to see a back 3 of Heitinga Jagielka and Distin (Stones and Duffy up and coming back up) with Coleman and Baines as the obvious 'wingbacks'.

When we played Stoke in March the 'back 3' looked excellent (only an early high ball caused a problem in the whole match if memory serves). That particular game we didn't have a million chances but I'd love to Martinez with that situation. He would have a solid defence at Everton, that he didn't have at Wigan, and better wing backs. I also think he would certainly bring the best out of Everton's flair players — something Moyes has been inconsistent at.

I hope Martinez is in before pre season starts. I do think players would be encouraged to stay if he comes. I would complain either if he brought McManaman and McCarthy with him. (I don't believe Managers should go poaching their old players as soon as they change clubs but if a club is relegated then it is a bit different.)

A young continental type coach would be a welcome breath of fresh air. A brand new approach for a brand new chapter in the clubs history.

We don't need another Moyes, we cannot afford to gamble on another Moyes, we need someone who has achieved some relative success.

We could gamble, but then we have to pay them off to get rid. Can we only have suggestions from leagues and candidates that have actually done something in the premier league to be proud of , or of course other top leagues outside the premier. This rules out all the championship managers, how do you know they are up and coming?.

The longer the issue is debated the more unsure I am about who may be the right type of person to follow Moyes. I still think it will be Mackay because of his similarity to DM.

As Henry Winter has just tweeted " Wigan go down holding the Cup. The game is about glory. It's about life-long memories of Wembley. It's not just about trying to finish 17th." Which of course is the way we as fans should look at the game. It's those memories we want, glory and silverware.

Whoever the Wigan guy was who dropped back to cover the through ball but didn't track the runner epitomised the quality in defence that Martinez brings.

And the winner is...........Andrew Lloyd Webber with Michael Crawford as his assistant.

Still a no from me.

Laudrup didn't have to make any drastic changes to the way Swansea play football, as that job was already done for him ...by Roberto Martinez! Having said that, Laudrup has never been relegated, but Martinez has.

They've both won cups this season. You could argue that the FA Cup is more prestigious than the League Cup. Then again, you could argue that Laudrup is a 'big name', unlike Martinez, and therefore Laudrup could attract better players.

I'm in two minds about which one is my first choice, but either way, I prefer them both to Moyes....

http://www.zedge.net/ringtone/771329/

I'm no Martinez fan Clive, but Wigan did have a right go at Arsenal and were on top for a good part of the second half, before some more poor defending let Arsenal run away with it.
----------------
That's the problem. The defence at Wigan always looks awful. Had they drawn tonight, they'd've been down. Check out the awful goal difference.

Too many are reacting against Moyes's defensiveness. But that is short-sighted. It reminds me of England going for Eriksson after Keegan, and then towards the end of Eriksson, every red top and half the dozies who buy them were calling for "an Englishman with passion". Did my tits in. I told one burk who echoed the line to me in a pub: "Yeah, we should go for Keegan!" – see the logic?

We need someone who can get the team to defend as well as attack. As already pointed out, we have a bloody good team. We need to get a proper bloody goalscorer. That probably will mean bye bye Felli, but a goalscorer, and an all-round knowledgeable coach, not too proud to demand sale of players and bring in his own team. That is why I expect someone from a lower league – Poyet, perhaps, or else I can see Pip getting it.

Imagine DM saying to the lads pre-West Ham: "Right, I want us to have a real go at them. So, primarily, that means well structured defending"!

The truth is that we will probably have to settle for someone who will see our club as a step up from where they are now.

You say we should think big and see the bigger picture.

I'd say that we can't do both. Rather, we should be realistic otherwise we will begin to sound like the geordies who always think they have a top 4 team.

A new manager should bring his own football philosophy to the club; some players will fit it with that and some won't. But the manager decides the players, not the other way round.

Depending on your age (like me), the 1977-78 season doesn't seem that long ago :0) but to a Wigan fan, they were still a non-league team. Martinez would currently be suited to a mid-table club with no real fear of relegation and who would appreciate a decent cup run and then he could build his reputation for a chance with a top 6 club. I'm not sure that many managers could have saved Wigan from the drop in the long term...

The pattern might continue, especially if the press are correct and a gentlemen's agreement with Moyes not to take Fellaini and Baines with him. When he didn't want them because they have Evra and Fellaini would not suit Man Utd. He however did not agree to the possible two he did want to take: Jagielka and probably Mirallas. Have we been had again?

It's nothing more than lazy journalists stealing for a living whilst there's nothing else to report on...

Moyes occasionally slipped a couple of places below this threshold and so did Martinez. Unfortunately for him, that slip this time means relegation. I believe he's a decent strong character with the stones to play open attacking football.

Imagine if Wigan could defend. They'd be a force. Now put Distin and Jags back there for them. Might just be the right man for us. I respect his footballing philosophy and to be honest, am very excited at the prospect of seeing and Everton team go out with attacking intent. DM was actually much much better this season and has set the bar high now but I believe RM can continue where he left off.

And yeah, tell him to bring McManaman with him....Sign him up!

It's all very well banding about names like Pereira, but I would prefer a manager with a few years experience of doing battle in the Premiership.

Martinez knows the opposition, he knows the type of player that will suit this league and he now has a major trophy under his belt.

He is used to working under tight financial constraints and has proved to be pretty shrewd in the transfer market.

He plays a more attractive brand of football (something we've all been screaming out for) and with our back five and the likes of Gibson in front of them, we would never become anywhere near as leaky as Wigan.

For me, it's the best fit out of all the other managers mentioned.

To write him off purely based on Wigan's relegation is about as reasonable as writing off the Special One because he didn't win La Liga this year.

But I guess you're right in some ways about Martinez transforming us: if he joins you can guarantee we'll soon becan utter shambles at the back.

Not totally convinced by Roberto, Wigan have not really progressed under him at all and although far from the rich boys are not quite so poor that just keeping them in the premiership should be seen as an achievement in my eyes. Think they come around 16th in the wages/net spend tables.

Would still prefer Pereira though that is increasingly looking a long shot. Its clear that the likes of Bielsa, De Boer, Turchel are not even close to the frame...

I'd prefer Laudrup or Bilic.
I'd settle for Martinez.
But to Lennon, Makay, Pip, Benetez and Hughes I say (in the style of Ben Kingsley in Sexy Beast) No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

P.S. I have a feeling he might stay at Wigan now they have been relegated. I don't think he will want to leave them in a worse position that he found them. Overall he seems to be afairly decent chap.

1. A cup win
2. Getting relegated

They always say that once you win something it changes your mentality and makes it that bit easier to achieve again. Does the same go for negatives? If so, does that mean Martinez would be a liability if we found ourselves in a relegation battle?

If I was any more "on the fence" on this one then my arse would be covered in creosote!

Laudrup seemed like he wanted the Everton job on Match of the Day (to the point that Lineker even said, "I'll take that as a Yes!") The only negative is the massive £10m compensation fee, but I'm hoping that's just far-fetched paper talk!

I'm assuming Whelan doesn't think Man City will come calling. Who knows if his dear Roberto has told him to put one of his sports socks in it?

Either way, if we do make an approach, Whelan does have one ace up his sleeve. The compensation demand.

If investors come in we could attract someone better. In Germany, Thomas Tuchel, is drawing comparisons with Jurgen Klopp. That would be more interesting to me than Martinez.

" Wigan have recorded the seventh-highest average possession (54.4%) and the eighth-highest pass completion rate (82.5%) in the PL this season."

I thought this piece was also interesting, when you take into account the likes of Pulis, or Allardyce don't really seen to identify players anywhere near as good ;

"At Wigan, Martinez has to live with a paper-thin squad. This season, for much of the time, the club has had to get along with long-term injuries to their two most influential central defenders, Alcaraz and Ramis; and in recent league games and the Cup Final had to play a midfielder at left back.

And look at the team that Wigan put out at Wembley, one that outclassed the most expensive side in history.

Maloney has been an influential player for the last two seasons. He would now walk into almost any premiership side. Cost? - £1m

McManaman, new to the first team and a future England star. cost?- Free

Alcaraz, a superb, quality defender who dominated the back in the final. Cost? - free

Espinoza, who ran City ragged down the left. Cost? - Free

Compare these signings with Joe Allen for £15m and Fabio Borini for £11m. What couldn't Martinez do with that £26m at Wigan?

He is a superb manager and one of the best around when it comes to spotting talent. He was also the man who initiated the sort of play at Swansea that saw them promoted. The football Wigan play is a joy to watch at times.

What keeps the club rooted near the bottom of the table is a pitifully small squad. This season, it has been injuries to critical players that has undermined the chances of Premiership survival."

I think we could do a lot worse.

In spells the football is a joy to watch - and its entetaining watching them when its not your team and you don't care what happens - but I don't want the 'etertainment' of chasing goals at the Emirates to stay in the division - thats how you get otnked as we saw and has been what has happened all season. Martinez has died ont he sword of his idealism - perhaps that wouldn't happen at Everton who knows. it really is back to the old debate of pragamatists v idealists. Moyes may have played a certain way because we didn't have the players to play any other.. it may be right it may be wrong - we won't knw until he goes to Man U. Martinez may have kept Wigan up if he usd some pragmatism in certain matches - we'll never know.

Brought more Everton youth through than Everton youth.
(Macmanan
Rebuilt a club (swansea)

Defied impossible relegation odds for 2 years.

Doesn't choke

Plays football

Has genuine integrity.

Just glad both sets of mancs are sorted or we wouldn't get a sniff.

COME ON DOWN ROBERTO REBUILD THIS AGEING SQUAD PLAY FOOTBALL TO REUNITE THE FANS - WIN SOMETHING!

Has Duffy even had a game in the P.L. this season? I can't think of one appearance myself.

We have got another £50k a week reserve as well who is leaving - Neville.

Oviedo hasn't had a look in - he cost a couple of million and is on big wages also.

We have a small squad compared to the moneyed elite, but enough to cope without European football.

"Defied impossible relegation odds for 2 years"?! Do you even REMEMBER the squad David Moyes took over as we sat a point above the relegation zone, with the likes of Gazza and Ginola smoking 40 a day each?

"Rebuild the ageing squad"?! See above and add a dozen other 30+ players into the list. Oh and in case you hadn't noticed, the average age of the Everton squad is 25.41. The average age of the Wigan squad is 25.81.

"Brings through more youth"?! Wow, you really proved that point with your ONE example.

"Plays football"?! Jesus wept. Jol compared us to Barcerlona. We've dominated possession in almost every game this season. Until January we were considered by most to be playing the most attractive football in the league. Since February/March we've again dominated matches, played scintillating footballer. If you were there against West Ham on Saturday you'd have seen that for yourself.

We all know you dislike Moyes, but your post was utterly ridiculous at every level.

Not worried about our defence on little bit.

Last nights performance said it all for me about Wigan.

They genuinely went for it, played football throughout against a team reknowned for their ability - in their back yard too, in a huge game for both clubs - dominated the game in parts then got suckered in and eventually torn to pieces by a more able side.

I was lucky enough to go to our match v Arsenal a few weeks ago. Much of the same criteria applied - big game, midweek, at the Emirates. We were steel to Arsenals silk, battled and came away with a well deserved point - with a bit of luck it could have been three, but also could've been none. It was a fair result, I think there was always only going to be one goal in it at most, and I came away feeling proud of our performance.

So - do I want to see my team go for it like Wigan did and lose, or do what we did and draw....?

I think the answer is I want to see Everton go for it like Wigan did - but win, and win consistently. Ideally I'd probably like to blend the teams together (imagine if we'd had Martinez as Moyes No.2 instead of Round.....)

So - can Martinez take a better squad (Jags, Baines, Mirallas, Pienaar, Fellaini, Jelavic, Oveido, Barkely, Gibson, Coleman?) and turn them into a team that went for it like Wigan did last night - but come away with glorious victory, rather than glorious defeat?

He may have won the FA Cup, but he has also taken his team down over the course of a 38 game contest and my gut feeling deep down is we too will end up at the wrong end of the table with him in charge, which wont be pretty no matter how nice the football is.

But then I look in the crystal ball and see....... silverware.... and airplanes..... and glory.....

What's the difference in the club's wage spends?

I fall into a different camp: I'm one of those who thinks Martinez is a hugely overrated manager, tactically inept, and who has just relegated his team after flirting with relegation in every season he's spent in the Premier League. By the way, many of the Wigan fans I know think exactly the same.

I don't want a continuation of the Moyes regime: I want to bring in somebody better than Moyes who can take us to the next level. Martinez, even with his one-man PR machine in the form of Dave Whelan, has shown no evidence that he's anywhere near Moyes' level. As mentioned above, the two men have spent nearly an identical amount of money whilst in charge of their clubs. While one club is now in the Championship, the other is flirting with Champions League qualification.

Kevin, yes we've been fortunate in terms of injuries to our defense this year but in previous seasons we've seen Hibbert, Neville and Duffy playing CB have we not? As recent as last season Hbbert was getting a run out there against City - and we won. In this league you have to be able to handle injuries and Martinez has shown over 38 games he can't. Yes he has some strengths that Moyes didn't in terms of playing well in big games (obviously depending on your definition of a big game - last night was a big game and they were terrible). But equally he has some glaring weaknesses that Moyes didn't like his inability to instill any form of even mediocre league consistency into his side in 4 years. Anyone can play the game of picking out players for a bargain. You can also easily pick out Mauro Boselli (6 mil) and Di Santo who wer ebig money who haven't really done anythign there.

His record reads the same as Mcleish's - cup winner (with an abysmal cup record outside of this) and relegation. Just because one apparently has a philosophy is young and trendy and the other is seen as a dinosaur they get different receptions - the reality is they've done exactly the same. Mcleish was even a winner in Scotland but look what happened when Villa took a plunge on him. Everton should not be hiring managers who over a good stretch of time have shown themselves barely good enough and ultimately unable to keep a team in the premier league, no matter how good their odd big game pedigree is (regardless of the team, there's enough dross in this league with terrible managers for a good manager to avoid being in and around the bottom three with a squad he's built over 4 years, regardless of the limitations on his resources)

I can't believe some of the arguments for him are that he wouldn't take us down because he's got Moyes' back 4 there! Is that really the limit of our ambition? let Martinez play all the pretty football he wants even if we're not going anywhere because Moyes has left us with a safety net and it would be more exciting than finishing 6/7th every year. Dear me.

They haven't spent the same on wages though, have they.

If we got a minimum of £17m for Baines, I think we could bring in a couple of quality defenders for his fee, feck, I would trust myself to find decent replacements at that sort of money.

People are also very naive to think our support and the size of the club won't help any new manager - not just Martinez. We all know how shit Wigan's support is, their ground has no atmosphere whatsoever, and they take about 200 away with them, we take ten times as many away fans, and compare that to 40,000 rabid blues when we play Utd at home for instance.

Martinez can find a player for very little money, that much is indisputable. Please remember he was Liverpool's & Villa's first choice last season as well.

We like to think we know a bit about footy - but he is clearly a very highly rated manager inside the game.

The first four seasons under Jewell, Hutchings and Bruce

Average position 13th, average points 44 no.of wins 47
The last four seasons under Martinez
Average position 16th, average points 39 no.of wins 37.
Martinez's away record is as good as his home record but only on par with the previous four seasons.
And probably the most staggering stat is that in four seasons his teams have conceded 273 goals in 151 games.
Now there is no denying the achievement of an FA Cup win and his sides undoubtedly play some good attacking football at times, but his record is not good enough for me to consider as a manager of our club. Whenever has a manager managed to get relegated and be rewarded with being appointed at a consistently high performing PL team?

This takes out any comparison with Everton in terms of wage structure, fans or players already here. Wigan's league form was better under Jewell/ Bruce than it is under Martinez.

Make no mistake, this was Everton's year but for 4 minutes at Goodison. We got sucker punched with 3 before we could stabilise and fight back. We arrived for the game with a too-casual attitude (It was only Wigan) but had we gone in at half time only 1 or 2 down, I think we would have won then and gone all the way but c'est la vie. Magic of the cup and the rest.

Still and all, people calling to bring in Martinez are utterly delirious.

Maybe BK can outsource the Manager's job, perhaps DM could advise 'Pip' or Steve Round on a part-time consultancy basis.

Villa I can understand. They wanted someone who was happy to oversee a particular 'project' (an overused word, but appropriate in this case) - namely, to overhaul the playing staff, get rid of the high salaries and bring in promising youngsters on cheap, long-term contracts. It was going to be all about survival in the first year, then pushing on with a sustainable salary structure.

LFC I don't get. Was his philosophy at odds with the owner? I don't know. Why else would he turn it down - apart from believing, as we do, that they are the second best team in the city?!

By the way, the far-from-reliable Echo is running some slightly different Whelan quotes today: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wigan-ready-accept-evertons-move-3815859

Think of the money we'd save.

Problem is, post-match we'd get a debate on TW as to how good we all were as the manager that day. "He's crap". "No he isn't".

"Roberto Martinez ruled himself out of contention to manage Liverpool because of the club’s plans for an inflated new management structure, Goal.com can reveal.

The Reds want a tier of three directors to take up the duties performed by former director of football Damien Comolli in a pioneering plan to make their operations more effective.

Martinez, however, was not willing to work under three men, plus managing director Ian Ayre, and the Wigan boss informed Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) on Tuesday that he would not join the club.

Rodgers is prepared to work within Liverpool’s proposed structure and fits FSG’s vision for a young, dynamic manager

Martinez's withdrawal opened the door for Brendan Rodgers to take the role due to his willingness to work within Liverpool’s proposed structure."

Apparently Whelan says he like full control over club affairs - as did Mr. Moyes.

It could be argued that with better players, the percentages improve and therefore the results - so while it's logical to compare Martinez to Jewell and Bruce, Martinez might be able to hit a tipping point why our players where that ambition can be realised, which in turn see's a significant uplft in results.

However - goals win and lose matches. Wigan have conceded 71 ( ! ) goals this year - almost 2 a game, whereas we have conceded 38, nearly half as many. That might not sound too bad but at the other end we've scored 54 to their 45.

So would the Martinez blueprint, even if we pulled it off, match our current performance or even surpass it....? Are the Wigan players that much worse than ours......?

I was at our Boxing Day game v Wigan and thought they were OK, not as bad at the back as they might be, OK in the middle but sorely lacking cutting edge, but nothing I saw particularly excited me.

So, thats me decided again. Crystal ball back on the table.... Martinez fades into the gloom.... and I see..... I see.... a portly man in a waistcoat approaching...... holding a silver platter.... saying...."maih I taek your order, Senor...."

Tin hat back on :)

In my mind I think Martinez buys good players but doesn't get the best out of them consistently. Hence why their first 11 has improved but their league position hasn't and why they can raise themselves massively for a big game. Moyes has had some average players that he drained to the limit. Osman and Gibson is not really a top 6 midfield pairing is it? Anichebe isn't top 6 quality either. Neville and Naismith weren't when they were covering for injuries at the beginning of the season. Moyes got the best out of them though on a consistent basis hence why it seemed in big games that we had no other level to go to and looked tired (allied of course with a probable inferiority complex).

Can hear a song now!!

But having said that, what we do know is in the universe were in today Matinezs Wigan did win the FA Cup and also beat Moyes Everton to get there. But would Martinezs Everton have lost that match.....hhhhmmm....

Martinez is a twenty20 cricketer if you like – he's just as likely to spray a dazzling array of shots around the ground against the world's best bowlers as he is to be bowled for a duck by a school boy – many times as he never seems to learn. Moyes is the test batsman – he knows every shot in the book but rarely uses them against the very best as he is cautious and wants to take the runs on offer.

All I care about is which approach gets us to a Champions League spot; whether we like it or not that is the most valuable trophy to our club at the moment. I just don't think Martinez will move our league form on. Maybe Moyes wouldn't have either but that's largely irrelevant now as he's gone and it's all about who's coming in.

Why would anyone favour him?

How can any sane-minded Evertonian want a man who has just managed his team to relegation?

And some of you who do had the cheek to criticise Moyes...

Ross, Di Matteo constantly used the same players each week, barely rotated. Isn't that a complaint against Moyes?

Some people have suggested people (Laudrup for example) who would clearly cost us a significant compensation fee, and who may generate substantial additional costs by demanding a wholesale change in the backroom staff. If we do that, it will have a major impact on funds for investment in the playing squad. Not ideal. We need to be realistic about what we can afford.

Some people want us to promote a former player from within – the cheapest option, no doubt, and this way we would get somebody whose loyalty could be assured and with whom we have a bond already. The problem is that those in question have no experience of managing in the top flight. There are big question marks over their ability to cope with the wide range of demands the come with such a big job – managing budgets, spotting and nurturing talent, coping with egos whilst maintaining both discipline and respect, working with the media, devising and implementing tactics, looking after staff relationships, and so on. Simply being a great match day motivator isn't enough. Besides, not everyone is motivated by the same things – there is a need for subtlety of approach, and I've not seen enough to convince me that heroes like Dunc and Stubbsy can tick all of the boxes just yet.

I think we need someone who is young enough to be hungry and ambitious but has had enough experience of front-line management to have started to hone their skills and shake off their rough edges.

I'd like someone who is likely to have a good relationship with the fans, the players and the board, earning respect and trust, and who will maintain display the integrity, professionalism and high standards of behaviour which are properly associated with our great club.

I'd like to see someone with some passion, imagination and flair, whose teams will play in a style which will entertain us and make us proud - but with enough pragmatism to dig out a result now and again.

So - not too expensive, some experience but plenty of youthhful ambition, a touch of class... not too much to ask, surely. The trouble is that even these few criteria rule out half the names that have been mentioned so far. It may be that nobody would be the perfect fit.

For me the closest fit is Martinez. His teams play attractive, entertaining football. He conducts himself with a smile and with dignity. He has shown loyalty to his current club. His chairman, players and fans all love him - nobody has a bad word to say. He understand budgets and the need to spend carefully. He can spot a bargain and develop talent. He is an interesting and resourceful tactician.

Sure, Wigan haven't escaped the lower reaches of the PL in his time there, and now they have succumbed to relegation - but in my opinion the fact that they survived so long (against perennial predictions of their likely doom at the start of every season from most commentators) speaks volumes for what he has achieved there.

Sure, their defensive record isn't great, and injuries alone don't excuse that. However, he has been working with second rate players and unable to afford better. How many of their defenders would you be happy to see us add to the squad at Goodison? I wonder how Wigan would have defended if their 3 centre backs had been chosen from Distin, Jags, Johnny and Duffy, and if their wing backs had been Seamus and Baines... They are the players he would be able to deploy if he managed the blues.

Martinez may not be perfect but he looks like the best all round bet. He is a fighter. He has shown he knows how to win a trophy.

If not him, then others who fit some of the criteria might include Pereira (but I'm nervous about his lack of PL experience, as a player or coach); Poyet (if only he hadn't supported Suarez quite so openly) and perhaps McCall – a former blue, with international and european experience, with domestic trophies under his belt as a player, with a reputation for honesty and integrity, and someone who has learned his trade the hard way.

Whoever it is, some of us will be delighted and some of us will be hacked off. We'll all be a little bit nervous, and most of us will be excited too. It's a new dawn. Let's embrace it. Let's give him a chance – a real chance, from the outset. It won't all go smoothly, so let's be ready to roll with the punches and stay positive. We will be at our strongest if we are together. So let's have no sulking if you don't get your way!!!

Laudrup seems happy at Swansea, and has a reported £10m release clause in a sparkling new contract.

Pereira is in the C.L. next season, but may come if we offer him Moyes type wages.

Bilic is in Moscow, and not doing very well.

Solskjaer is a possibility - but has publicly stated he want to be the next Man U boss.

Di Matteo, Zola, Poyet, Martinez are all similar for me - with Martinez just ahead because of P.L. experience, and a sound reputation inside the game.

Mackay - Moyes clone. (some would love that I suppose)

Lennon - Lots of baggage, unstable character

Internal candidates - Would be a huge mistake.

Coyle, Hughes, O'Neill, McClaren etc. etc. - All had their chance.

So we need to really look at a 3 man shortlist of managers who are actually available, and won't cost Bill any money. Not a large selection really.

That will be his 'experience' of not finishing above 15th in four seasons, conceding on average 1.8 goals a game and ultimately getting relegated.

Is that really the best CV for a manager of Everton FC? For me most definitely not.

Whatever you want to say about Moyes (I'm not a MOB or MIB), in his last few years here he finally got to terms with the tactics of the league on the whole. Yes when he first arrived we did play the negative long ball game, but some of the stuff we've played, especially the start of this season was a joy to behold. As a team we have the ability to switch it up in a game. We can do the lump it forward to the big man or can turn on the slick 'tika taka' style epitomized by our first goal on Saturday. What I've seen of Wigan is that they keep it the same all the time, and with an inability to defend. If the Premier League was all about points for style, Wigan would not be relegated, but points are earned for a win, something that they could only do 9 times this year.

If Bill Kenwright means it when he says he will listen to what Everton supporters are saying then let’s hope he’s made aware of the ToffeeWeb poll which has surely got to be the clearest available indication of fans’ views.

For my money the best candidate has to be Vitor Pereira. He has by far and away the best stats as a manager of any of the bunch in the running: 58.6% wins; 23.57% draws; 17.83% losses from 157 matches. Significantly better than Michael Laudrup who would be my second choice. He speaks good English and is it seems a fairly modest guy. He's reputed to be an excellent tactician and in no way could he be considered a mouth on legs unlike one of his famous predecessors! Moreover he has apparently expressed a degree of interest in the job!

So if anyone is still unsure where to cast his or her vote get behind Pereira and hope that BK is paying attention!

"All I care about is which approach gets us to a Champions League spot, whether we like it or not that is the most valuable trophy to our club at the moment".

I think you're right and that makes it easy then. Benitez it is. I'm done with this debate, Rafa's definitely my pick.

Whatever you want to say about Moyes (I'm not a MOB or MIB), in his last few years here he finally got to terms with the tactics of the league on the whole. Yes when he first arrived we did play the negative long ball game, but some of the stuff we've played, especially the start of this season was a joy to behold. As a team we have the ability to switch it up in a game. We can do the lump it forward to the big man or can turn on the slick 'tika taka' style epitomized by our first goal on Saturday. What I've seen of Wigan is that they keep it the same all the time, and with an inability to defend. If the Premier League was all about points for style, Wigan would not be relegated, but points are earned for a win, something that they could only do 9 times this year.

To me it points to being the right man at the right time for us. The question is whether he’s on BK’s radar!! To hear 'merry go round' managers like Mark Hughes mentioned as still being in the frame if just too depressing for words!

"Whereas I do know Pereira has complained that he has had to his sell his best players at the end of each season because of Porto's iffy financial situation."

Would it not be a bit of a case of frying pan / fire then....?

My preferred choices would be Martinez or Malky McKay, but one has to concede that it is not easy to appoint someone who's just seen his side relegated!

I dread the thought of BK going for Neil Lennon, and Victor Pereira is not that impressive, as I stated on the Gus Poyet thread.

"Home talent" such as Neville or Stubbs, would be a shot in the dark...

Where does all this leave us?

We are in a far better position that Porto and equally important he wants to manage in the Premier league and who offers a better propostion for him than us at this moment in time?

What I fail to understand are people talking about McLaren, Hoddle or Neville. The first two we know are utter tripe. The last one has absolutely nothing demonstrably positive in his favour as a manager, so far as I can see.

Neville's main attributes are being a good pro, keeping himself fit and doing exactly what someone else tells him to. He obviously wants to be a coach, because he's taking his badges, but I don't see any evidence that he has skills which would warrant him being given a managers position....and I don't see why we should be in the business of trusting someone like neville with our club on the basis that he was a yes-man to the previous regime.

Dunc I can sort of understand, because I can imagine the guy really commands respect from the players. On the flip side, I'm not surprised to read that some players would consider neville a bit of a tit, and I'm seriously shocked that some people would even consider having him in charge.

I'm not making any judgement on his credentials, merely that his very appointment would be controversial. I mentioned previously how Everton fans rejected the idea of John Toshack years ago just cos he'd played for them (and this was when our only avenues of venting our spleen was to write to the Echo, or whinge down the pub!)

Anyway it'll be BK making the choice so God help us all.

Ole!

Wigans PL finishes before Martinez:
10th
17th
14th
11th

When Martinez came in:
16th
16th
15th
18th

This, on the face of it, may not be a man with a record for getting a club to overachieve in the league which is what we need if we are to ever reach the game changing champions league places.

Sustained applause for that post. (I didn't know that Moyes spent only £800k more than Wigan in ten years. Just shows how good Moyes really is.)

The wage budgets weren't the same though, were they. That stat has annoyed me a few times already today.

"That will be his 'experience' of not finishing above 15th in four seasons, conceding on average 1.8 goals a game and ultimately getting relegated."

Exactly. Whenever this Moyes v Martinez debate arises, a question occurs to me. If Martinez is the better manager, why didn't Manchester United go for him?

Yes, that's a good point, BUT it is also generally true that the better players carry higher transfer fees and so net spend is an indicator.

And since Moyes's policy of paying higher wages to keep a small squad happy has put us into the top six, you could argue that his strategy has been correct for Everton FC.

I note that you didn't answer my question: why didn't Manchester United go for Martinez?

I can remember the exciting days of Walter Smith, Mike Walker et al, wonder goals from Barry Horne, being relegated at half time only for match fixing goalkeepers to keep us up !!

Look at his record, people, he's fucking SHITE and his team concedes nearly 2 goals a game!!! And don't give me this "shoestring budget, small team" bullshit because most of you argue that Moyes should have won things and got us into Europe because money is irrelevant and we are Everton, blah blah blah !!

Your post makes no sense, grammatically or logically. Again I ask the question: why do you think Manchester United didn't approach Martinez?

I say give him a chance, with if possible Weir along side him. Martinez seems like nice bloke.. but there's got to be question mark surely when you see his last four seasons at Wigan. 71 goals against and still one match to go. He isn't my choice anyway.

Let's put it into some perspective. Imagine Walter Smith's team and no money, compared to the team we have today. Is it any wonder, why then under Walter's reign, that with his team, we almost sunk without trace?

Wigan are very much in that boat we where in, except they have no money to buy some of the player's we have that can keep them in the premier league.

For Matinez, it really is trial and error with cheap players and I mean on the free and on loan. Everton are fortunately not in that boat, but while we are poor, we still have money enough to bring better quality in, even if we do sell the kitchen sink.

In defense of Martinez, what was the bloke supposed to do? They get relegated, they get a parachute payment, they get money from winning the FA Cup and they will play in Europe next year, which will help them build a far better team capable of sustaining themselves in the premier league.

Some times a small team, is incapable of surviving the drop regardless of who is in charge, particularly with their financial constraints which makes us look like millionaires compared to them.

Considering all of this, I think Martinez has done a very good job over the past couple of years on trying to keep a team up, who shouldn't be in the premier league at all. They haven't been financially able to compete in this league, so it's no wonder they have succumed eventually. At least they won something, and have gained european football despite dropping down into the championship.

Martinez for me would a good solid manager, not sure we'd be able to win anything, but I for one think he could well get us into europe next year.

Never the less it's going to take at least 2/3 years to change this current team so it is more competitive, pacey and can actually pass the ball better then an amateur team. I would like someone better, but I would be all the way behind Martinez, if it looks by christmas he is out of his depth and we look possible for going down, then by all means replace him,but I don't fear that with martinez :)

So Everton, with better players, better finances, could Martinez do better with a club like us? Probably...but I'd still prefer Periera or Bielsa.

Frida, you are right, some people cannot grasp the differences between wigan's and everton's finances. You are also in that group I am afraid. See above, net transfer spend over the last five seasons: both clubs are pretty even: -2.4m a year. The key difference being that Moyes got everton in the top 6 on average, and Wigan were right down there at the bottom: in fact in the championship next year.
He clearly has some great skills, but lets not try and sweep the relegation issue under the carpet eh?

What were the respective wage budgets over that period? It really is incredibly misleading to just quote net spends when comparing two clubs / managers.

Only downside for me is a lack of defensive solidity, but surely the Goodison back room can sort that out.

Best candidate by quite a distance in my eyes.

This is only for one season (2011-12), but I think this shows that Wigan were about where they should be based on wages, with Everton over-performing for the same period.

“Whenever this Moyes v Martinez debate arises, a question occurs to me. If Martinez is the better manager, why didn't Manchester United go for him?”

Seeing as you said the question above just “occurred” to you, and wasn’t directed at anyone personally, least of all me, I thought it was maybe rhetorical not an expectation for everyone to form an orderly queue to give their opinion.

I was wrong, obviously, so here it is:

I’m neither pro-Martinez or particularly anti-Moyes, I don’t want Martinez as our next manager and I’ve long held the view that it was time for Moyes to move on, so to be honest it’s not a question that really interested me – particularly as the answer’s pretty obvious isn’t it?

Manchester United didn’t go for Martinez because they didn’t think he was the right man for them.

Now, for what its worth I don’t think he’s the right man for us either, so why are you asking me to put up a defence for us appointing him….?

Also, just because Man Utd are a “big” club doesn’t make them, or their decision “right”. Martinez may have made history by taking them to a hat-trick of trebles over the next three years - we will never know – and they are now entering the unknown just as much as we are.

David Moyes was not forced out of Everton – he left out of choice, so I’m not sure what crusade you're on against people who wanted him out, they aren’t the reason he left and besides, they are more than welcome to their opinion. If you want to point fingers, point them at the board.

And everybody who is supporting to him is jumping to defend him in ways which just keep on unravelling.

1) He was out performed by his predecessor
(This surprised me, as by Dave Whelan’s ass kissing, I did not think to check it)

2) His net transfer spend is similar to Moyes.
people respond by saying this is misleading because, it misses squad quality to wages variable

3) The it emerges, that Squad wages appear between us and Wigan appear to not to show too much difference at all.

4) Just relegated.

As for he plays great attacking football, yeah well surly that is meaningless is it does not deliver results.

Numbers, numbers, numbers…….. matter so much more than opinions.

I think this tread has been massively informing – big thanks to the guys who researched the numbers, its exactly the sort of diligence that the board need to employ.

Let me say something to the idiots who could every fact with who white stuff like, “well maybe he will still be good” Liverpool and Chelsea can afford that sort of trial and error, we cannot really.
It’s true, nobody knows for sure, all we can do is research with the hope of maximising output and minimising uncertainty. Which was the reason as why I (and other with a brain) were strongly backing (hoping) Moyes to stay, but here we are in a brave new world. – keep the research coming.
It seems, Martinez, is down but not out........ if he gets his chance, he should consider himself a luck man. If he thinks he is too big for EFC, let him review the numbers.

Would anybody seriously lay money on either of those two? Or the others at 949-1? Or is it that somebody has wanted to lay a bet so the bookie has to give a price? But who could possibly think any of those at the bottom of the odds list?

Can anybody help me?

I don't particularly want Martinez...but he's better than some of the terrifying names that have been touted.

I think the thing that worries me most is that in 4 years he still couldn't assemble a half decent defence. I actually think the likes of Scharner, Boyce, Boucejour (sp) and Ramis are good enough players...but the organisation and defensive discipline is absolutely all over the place.

People (me included) had a pop at Moyes for being one dimensional. Well Martinez is the same - but in a very different way. He just doesn't seem to be able to keep it tight...which is important at certain times.

Young.
Very strong tactician with an emphasis on possession and attacking football.
Used to working on a budget.
Contract run out now so no compensation required.
Could bring one or two players from a Porto team that should be about win the league.
Interested in coming to England.

Surely a man whose team is winning the league is more exciting than a man whose team just got relegated. He would certainly come with a winning mentality.

If you have a race of say 5 horses the natural odds of one of them winning is 5/1. The bookie knows that some have a better chance than others so he orders them as lets say evens, 2/1, 5/1, 8/1 and 10/1. I was always taught to (generally) discount selections over the natural odds (in this case 5/1) as even the bookies are willing to pay you over the natural order of things if they win, they think its that unlikely.

The bookie structures the book so that it is “over-round”.

You will sometimes see on tele etc when a book is displayed it will say “125% Over-round”, which theoretically means that the bookie will make 25% of the pot regardless of who wins. So if the pot is £1250 and Martinez is evens, and Carragher is 500/1 that means £500 has been put on Martinez and roughly £2 has been put on Carragher – regardless of who wins the bookie pays out £1000 and walks away with £250.

As money gets laid on the horses, the odds change to protect the bookies cut. This isn’t exactly right as the bookie will always want an outsider to win as he’ll pay out less money than for a favourite but this is the theory as I’ve always understood it.

So – unlike a horse race where the selections are fixed as it’s a real race, in the instance of a new manager they can put names up just for fun, to try and stimulate interest, get some mug punting etc and this is all the Carragher selection is. There’ll be someone somewhere who will have put money on him and the bookies will love it as its money for old rope – they’ll love it even more if he gets the job as there’ll be one bloke skipping down to the pub to celebrate and 900 others who have just lost all their money to the bookie.

Either way the bookie cannot lose if he’s constructed the book correctly.

If you go on Oddschecker we’ve got c.90 names in the frame, so based on the logic above you can probably safely rule anyone 100/1 or more out. This leaves about 30 managers to choose from and at this point no one really has a clue who its going to be, it could be anyone of these or someone who’s not even on the list yet, but chance are it’ll come from the top 10.

Personally, I don’t think there’s much value in Martinez at 2/1 but Perriera and Neville at 33/1 with Stan James and Benitez at 40/1 with Sky Bet might be worth a punt 

Apologies for the long drawn out explanation, it might not even be right, this is just how I’ve grown up to understand it – would welcome someone who can put me right if its worng.

Thanks, mate.

Crusade? Pointing fingers? What are you on about?

I simply asked why United didn't go for Martinez. Your response was

"Manchester United didn’t go for Martinez because they didn’t think he was the right man for them."

Why do you think that was the case?

Its also possible that not a cent has been laid on them, the bookie has just got them on the board just to give people the option - and now that option's there there's bound to be someone in a pub going "thats worth a quid..." and they'll stick it on.

Take it easy :).

It's still not.

Compare Moyes first 4 years with Martinez first 4 years a far more representative comparison.

Whelan pulled the plug when Martinez arrived he HAD TO SELL - Moyes was given money for the first few years breaking the club transfer record not once but twice! Not to mention a certain 16 yr old.

The anti Martinez crew are sulking about Moyes failure to win anything in hugely better circumstances - they will never let it go.

Kopites have Benitez among their deluded crew as the ghost of new managers - we will have Moyes.

My point is that Martinez may be a good candidate but lets recognise some of his strengths (fa cup win), and weaknesses (relegation). It is about applying a balanced view, (not something I have ever seen from you by the way)!

I'm not sure Wigan and Everton having simular net spends is a way to look at things in a fair way, unless the outgoings and incoming amounts are roughly equal also

"The anti Martinez crew are sulking about Moyes failure to win anything in hugely better circumstances - they will never let it go."

Come again?

We could have spent £30,000,000 and recouped 29,200,000.

They could have spent £5,000,000 and recouped 4,200,000.

It's an absolutely ridiculous way of looking at things.

You're not interested in why Man United stole our manager instead of going for Martinez?

How odd.

'Net spend' is the figure of £800,000.

The ins and outs of transfer dealings are not in any way discernible from that figure. Nobody is disputing that Everton have acquired better players than Wigan. We've also sold better players than Wigan.

Your precious 'net spend' is a completely meaningless figure.

IMO Moyes has done far better at Eveton than Martinez has at Wigan - I just don't think the net spend is the way to prove it.

"He was appointed Wigan manager at the beginning of the 2009/2010 season. In their four previous seasons Wigan finished 11th, 14th, 17th and 10th respectively. Since he has taken over they have finished 18th 2012/2013, 15th 2011/2012, 16th 2010/2011 and 16th again 2009/2010. Martinez has therefore recorded 4 of Wigan's 5 worst Premiership finishes during his 4 years in charge. Martinez has managed 151 Premier League games for Wigan; 38 Wins, 42 Draws and 71 Losses. He has averaged 1.03 points a game.

Great at working on a budget? He has had a negative net spend in most of his seasons. However, the majority of this was funded by selling players his predecessors had signed. In Martinez' four years Wigan have paid £32,000,000 for players, taken 43,7500,000 and have a net spend of £-11,650,000 (according to transferleague.co.uk). So he's had to work on a limited budget, fair enough. But he hasn't traded well. Of their takings only Jason Scotland, Antonio Amaya, Vitctor Moses and Conor Salmon were brought in during Martinez' reign. These sales amount to £11,250,000 and a £6,150,000 profit. So the rest of the sales are from players signed by the previous manager, like Valencia sold for £16,000,000 in 2009/2010, Cattermole sold for £6,000,000 in 2009/2010 and N'Zogbia sold for 9,500,000 in 2011/2012. So how has he built on the clubs previous successes? He bought Mauro Boselli for £6,500,000, Ivan Ramis for £5,000,000, Ali Al Habsi for £4,000,000 and Jean Beausejour for £3,000,000, to name a few. Yes, he's had some success with the likes of Kone, Maloney, McArthur and McCarthy but, in general, he buys poorly.

If anything Wigan have deteriorated under his stewardship - they have had lower league positions, they have a poorer talent pool and they will be playing in a lower division next season. He's a myth created by Dave Whelan."

Bliy - £9.5m
Distin £4m
Heitinga £6m and Luke Garbutt for £600k.That makes a grand total of minus £1.9m spent - but look at the players we brought in (and wages of course)

The season 05/06, I was amazed, but we spent over £27m!!
Joleon Lescott £5,000,000
Andy Johnson £8,600,000
Alan Stubbs Free
Andy Van der Meyde £2,000,000
Nuno Valente £1,500,000
Phil Neville £3,500,000
Mikel Arteta £2,000,000
Per Kroldrup £5,000,000
Total £27,600,000

I just don't think he is very good.

Infact, Jim 391's post has actually downgraded him again in my opinion from 'stylish but not very good' to 'stylish but really quite shite'

What I will give RM is that he is the best of the extremely poor bunch of supposedly 'realistic' options that we are being presented with.

He's just got his team relegated, after being invoved in a dogfight every season.

How the hell can anyone want the manager of a relegated team to come to Everton? It's absolute madness.

Those who do: just take a muinute and listen to what you are saying...

Martinez has his strengths and the FA cup was fantastic achievement but Wigans league form also deteriorated under him till eventual relegation and that has to be considered too. While they were not on level pegging with Everton they were around 16th/17th in the wage/transfer spend table so it cannot be said that he 'performed miracles' keeping them up previously.

We want a gentleman as a manager. Not a yob who scraps on the touchline.

He is so NOT an Everton manager.

A: Our league form took a dip around January - perhaps because DM had not signed a new contract and he was unsettled by speculation/negotiations linking him to Man Utd. (This possibility has already been much discussed on TW.) Result? We don't manage to push on to a Champions League place, despite an unusually good start to the season.

B: Wigan's late season form was inferior to other seasons - perhaps because Martinez was unsettled by speculation/negotiations linking him to Everton. Result? Wigan are unable to pull off their usual escape act and get relegated.

If it's easy to believe "A" then it's just as easy to believe "B".

In all seriousness it is of course impossible to know how any of these managers would fare at a different club such as ours but something about Wigan's failure to improve their league form under Martinez does give me cause for concern.

The fact is, the Portuguese League is a two-horse race, and the gulf between Porto and Benfica and the rest of the field has been increasing, if anything.

Pereira is just about one of the most colourless managers I've ever come across. This is not Andre Villas-Boas, let alone a Jose Mourinho.

Mind you, he could come over and do well, but I doubt it. He also hasn't got any experience of the transfer market: the Board and the Director of Football work it for him.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

In my opinion, 'colourless' is something I could live with and would be infinitely better than some 'it's all about me' nob-head dancing about in the 'technical' area like a demented clown every time a throw-in doesn't go our way.

(that's one thing I will give Moyes, he rarely made a twat of himself in 'that way')

Now here's why: Everton have said nothing because, until last Tuesday, Wigan still had something to play for. Still no news from everton about a short list. Now Wigan have a final home game where they will parade the FA Cup and, unless I'm wrong, that's the reason Everton are still keeping quiet.

I'm pretty certain next Monday Everton will contact Wigan, so you heard it here first: Everton in Talks with Martinez, Monday — and three days before Sky Breaking News...

He's finally dropped out in his 4th season when he ran the likes of Newcastle, Sunderland and Aston Villa very very close.

He's at Wigan ffs. Not the type of club that ever stay in the top league for very long. Some of the best managers in the world probably wouldn't of kept them alive for those four years.

I'm not saying he's definitely 100% the right choice, but to write him off for getting Wigan relegated seems a little harsh to me. It's Wigan.

Wigan.

And he won a trophy.

At Wigan.

Just saying...

It is perfectly possible to be passionate, dignified and still have a sense of fun: Joe Royle presented himself superbly, in my opinion.

Was it not you who - in response to talk of Benitez "buying and rotating" - had a vision of the FSW dumping his shopping in the kitchen, asking his other half for a cup of tea and then speedily revolving on the spot?

Talking of touchline behaviour, I wish managers would stop jotting down things on bits of paper. I mean, with their salaries, can they not afford a little pocket notebook from WH Smith? What are they writing down anyway? I sometimes think they're just keeping a note of the score.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wigan-athletic/10052421/Wigan-chairman-Dave-Whelan-says-Roberto-Martinez-would-reject-Everton.html

Notes on touchline - I though that's what Round was there for - to dictate notes to, like a PA.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-whelan-expects-roberto-martinez-3860406

Judging by Wigan's displays over the past few months SW has been lining up with Helen Keller, Blind Pew and David Blunkett in Wigan's back line.