Allardyce: 'We're doing all we can' to win over Blues fans

Nobody pays attention to chat boards except those who are on it. We swap views and comments, celebrate the good stuff and vent our frustrations, but the belief that our opinions carry any weight with the club and its decisions is simply delusional.

Only the top clubs have your record since taking the job: 30 points.

Fair play, Sam!

Any other manager would be staying next season with the position we came from. What do the players think of Sam staying?

Sam stays or goes our squad is not suddenly going to be top 4 contenders. New manager must be given time and yes flirting with relagation may come in rebuilding the team.

Darren Hind is an anonymous poster on ToffeeWeb. You wouldn't know him if he was standing next to you.

You over-emphasise his role in Koeman leaving.
To say he hounded him out is laughable. Although it must be said, Darren would undoubtedly claim differently.

Allardyce's results are better than most of us might have hoped for upon his arrival but that lean spell between Christmas and Feb/March was his undoing, a little more adventure against the lower placed teams in that period and we may all have been looking at a place in the top six and a European adventure next season, rather than a top half finish with no consolation prizes.

Sam has been the author of his own unpopularity, he needn't have made it all about him, he could have tried to win over the fans at any point since his arrival, he has told us often enough that we are not professionals and therefore we don't have a clue about football, despite the large number of fans who have watched the game and Everton in particular for decades.

It is difficult to explain exactly what it is that Evertonians want to see from their team, particularly to those who have no insight nto the club and it is even more difficult to impart that to a person who has no interest in recognising the supporters desires.

Every fan of every club wants to see victories and three points from as many fixtures as possible, but whether others agree or not Evertonians usually want to see that happen alongside a certain style and swagger from their players.

There is also a wish to see the Everton FC manager as an ambassador for the club and an ally of the supporters, one who emphathises with them, one who works towards fulfilling their dreams, not one who treats them like an unnecessary inconveniance and acts like he's doing everybody a favour by doing his job.

Moyes was good at communicating with the fans even during his bad patches and that bought him a lot of time when it was perhaps unwarranted. Koeman was aloof and also believed himself to be the expert and didn't form a bond with the supporters and that is perhaps why he didn't get as much time as he may have thought he deserved.

Martinez was close to being the ideal person to manage Everton until we discovered that he saw a completely different game to what we had all witnessed, not just once but in nearly every match.

Sam as has been said elsewhere may be here next August, but he'll never be the right fit for the club, unless he changes his personality and outlook in the summer and that ain't going to happen.

I'm personally of the opinion that anyone could have "achieved" what he has "achieved".

Fine, let's give him the plaudits and credit if that is what is warranted but he is not the short-term solution, let alone long-term future of this club.

Our fans are displaying the same emotions as those at Newcastle, West Ham, Villa and a few others over the past decade: that feeling of entitlement that the club should be achieving more when the harsh reality is the club has only modest achievements to which we can point in the past two decades.

A bungled transfer window last summer virtually guaranteed a poor season. Allardyce has rescued us and lifted us to eighth. I don't think much more could have been achieved with an unbalanced squad which has been significantly improved by the addition of just two players, Walcott and Tosun, in January.

We proclaim to be the best supporters in the world... don't make me laugh, Supporting your team is not just about turning up every week like you're some sort of super fan, it's about doing something about it when your club is in a world of shit, as it was and has been for some time now.

I was shouted down by people on here about a month or so ago when I suggested people should not turn up at the ground at all. It's funny because those same people are now trying to organise a walk-out on the last game of the season. What will that achieve? If Moshiri has already made his mind up, then it will achieve fuck all.

Record season ticket sales and a full-house at every home game only says one thing to the owners. They can carry on serving up shit every week as the best supporters in the world will just keep coming. They're pissing themselves laughing and at the same time getting filthy rich. This should've been done sometime ago but people were so cocksure Sam would be gone, now panic has set in.

I will use Arsenal as an example and they're sitting in 7th place. They just stopped going and the sponsors of that club would've let it be known to the owner that they're unhappy because less money was getting spent in the ground. Beer, food and merchandise – also the companies who pay for advertisements – want a full stadium ideally. Hence the owners at Wengers own admission brought forward his leaving of the club.

So, in a nutshell, stop fucking about and support our club properly and stay away. If you turn up you are still paying for beer, food, merchandise and the advertising companies are happy to see a full stadium. This thought of not missing a game because that makes you a "proper Blue" is bullshit you're kidding yourselves.

And if it's the enjoyment of meeting your mates and getting away from the missus or after a long week in work, you can still arrange to meet them mates every Saturday until this clown has gone and Moshiri sorts his shit out and runs our once great club how it should be run.

This is for those so-called Evertonians making excuses for this manager. It's not just the fact he is a terrible manager who will never change his style of play and will always just aim for 40 points. He will tell us we cannot expect to take any points from the better teams, He will try to convince you he is doing this for the club and wants to win trophies? Well you are as deluded as him

This man is not a good enough manager for our club and we all know it. So, if you want the owner to know it, stop going the fucking match so they lose money, because that's all they give a fuck about.

The central problem with those who hate the manager (and hate him they do) is that they begin from a false premise: that Everton is a strong, big club with a proud history of stylish football. That was true up to 1970. I know, because I was there. The 1980s success was much less stylish, it was instead maximally efficient. Otherwise, we have been mainly functional for the best part of 50 years.

You make a very powerful point about the players. They clearly like him. If they did not, they had it in their power to kill him. We should hold our nerve; when you are in a very bad position, the beginning of a cure is to recognise just how bad that position is and to re-build slowly, painfully. That is what Allardyce is doing and I believe we shall, in due course, be thankful to him.

He has been too negative, I accept, but I cannot blame him given the stakes. Had we slipped up in three or four games, going for attacking style without the players to accomplish it, we could well have been in the relegation fight. As for the heavy defeats to the top sides, we are no different to other clubs who have been hammered, including some of those top clubs themselves.

I've said before on here (to much ridicule) that if we get rid of Allardyce we will regret it very much. I hold to that.

Or is this our lot in life - at least until the end of next season ?
Say it isn't so. I know we won but God I'm bored.

Aren't we better than this ?
(Sorry for sounding miserable.)

Well done to the players by the way.

Did you guys posting in support of him watch these two games?

1. We hardly played champagne football
2. These are both promoted sides who've spent nothing

Huddersfield have the worst squad in the league. How they and Brighton have stayed up (or look set to) I don't know. I wouldn't be banging on the drums for beating any of the promoted sides, we were 7th last season, it's expected.

Allardyce looks set to have his first winning season in 11 years, he has a winning record (+2) at a club for the first time in his entire Premier League career. This doesn't change how terrible a coach he is, how poor his tactics are, and how he favours aging players who over youth.

We need to walk out in the 78th minute. We need to make it clear that beating some shite teams doesn't matter, he's not good enough, has never been good enough, and never will be good enough.

Unsworth was hung out to dry by the owner and was always doomed to fail as a consequence.

Allardyce was a panic appointment. He may have overseen an improvement in results and the club moving to a position of safety but at what cost! He has lost the support and goodwill of the majority of the fans who actually attend matches and watch the dross served up on a weekly basis.

If Allardyce is the manager at the start of the season and results don't immediately go Everton's way then the atmosphere at Goodison will be toxic. The club should thank him for steering them it to safety and wish him well for the future. A new appointment should be in place for the whole of the closed season and pre-season preparation.

We are SO predictable!!

Allardyce, on the other hand, practically invites it. He's an arrogant, boorish boob who only cares about himself, refuses to take responsibility and winds up the fans every chance he gets.

I also dispute the notion that he couldn't have achieved anything more. 7th place and Europa League qualification was literally there for the taking, but he bungled that with those dreadful, back-to-back defeats to Watford and Burnley.

Allardyce's teams always play to percentages on the pitch and his philosophy runs through the season. Beat the teams below you at home; don't disrespect a point (his words); get to 40 points and everything else is a bonus. And ignore the cups.

Leopards and spots. Old dog, old tricks. To him, that's okay. The trouble is that we don't buy season tickets to see what he thinks is a success. He'll never get the place buzzing like it was in Martinez's first season (well mostly).

His problem is that he doesn't actually see the game as a form of entertainment and he doesn't understand those who do.

Allardyce has turned us into a small club, with small club tactics, attitudes and goals. But we always knew he would because he's a small club manager, he doesn't know how to play on the front foot, he doesn't know how to deal with lofty expectations.

But sure, back him to get us 7th or 8th next season, to sign a dodgy African or two, hope he doesn't get a few brown envelopes out of it, and pay for it by selling off our world cup winning kids, starting with Lookman.

Don't forget his big plans to get us to 40 points next season include signing the likes of Ki.

I mean a home game against So't'on and away to the Hammers, well that's a big ask to stay unbeaten.

I can't actually believe we're 8th this season based on our performances. I honestly feel we have been the worst performing team bar none in this league.

I think I've seen every team play at least half a dozen times each one way or another over the season and every one of them has put in more impressive performances than Everton during the season, particularly most of the teams below us have had a go at the top 4 and put in creditable performances.

I don't recall one decent 90 minutes from us and I include the two games I was bale to get home for v West Ham and Huddersfield at home in December.

We have to move on from Sam I'm afraid. There is no reason we can't get a manager who has ambition, talent and a vision to play an attractive style of football, without sacrificing defence.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

He built his reputation for dire football, low expectation (in turn deemed "success") and berating officials for over 2 decades or so; regardless of the club he was with and regardless of the players he has had at his disposal. He won't change so why anyone thinks he will is beyond me. This is what you get and will continue to get.

I don't know him so won't comment on him as an individual. I am just of the opinion that as a football coach, he kills the game. Some may be more into seeing it as "effective"; that's your opinion. Mine is that he is a dreadful example of the many things wrong with the British game & psyche. That's not vitriol; it's an opinion.

I watched today's game and I thought it was a good away performance if I am honest. Pickford didn't have a shot to save. The back 4 is also performing really well at the minute. Gueye and Schneiderlin did a good job in front of them, and I thought our ball retention was much better at times today also.

The trouble is the final third. Tosun and Walcott were isolated again, and we don't seem capable of opening teams up. Both goals today were 20 yarders - we don't seem to create real chances playing this way.

If Sam hadn't been so arrogant, he could have bought himself some time by saying that he is working on the defence and that he will gradually be looking to be more adventurous in our play. However, he has repeatedly made it sound like his master plan worked every time we have scraped a result. Any time we win, we have been excellent, despite the stats saying differently. We are 19th in the table in terms of shots on target under his leadership - yet you would never think so judging by his press interviews.

The manager has alienated himself as much as anything. He said we dominated Newcastle for 75 minutes. He was crowing after we snatched a 1-1 draw at Anfield. Even when he was interviewed on the Everton website today, when asked whether this result would shut up the critics, he replied that we shouldn't be talking about critics after 11 points from 6 games and then walked off! Even on the club website!

It's his arrogance that will do for him, not the results.

There are (and, of course, it is only my opinion) some Evertonians who come out with stuff that begins "I want Sam out as much as anyone but..."
BUT WHAT? I defy anyone who has ever enjoyed football, anyone who has seen our best players, in fact, anyone who refuses to condone anti-football and corruption, defend this appalling man.

Allardyce is damaging Everton, motivated by greed. He is not interested in the best interests of Everton Football Club, only his own interests, though his ability guarantees nothing more than this anyway.

I can't believe some of the posts appearing on this thread supporting him.

Really? Since when do dubious media reports about a club's alleged interest in a player become fact?

I can't take some of these posts seriously. Zero objectivity. I'm with those that want to see a young, bright, fearless manager brought in to take us forward. However, I don't enjoy reading the bullshit attempts to justify the hate and abuse for Sam. The man inherited an absolute shambles and has been forced onto the defensive from the start.

There are many on here who seem to believe that we are far better than we actually are. The reason that most of the pundits believe we should be grateful for having Sam is because they don't share some of our fans' sense of entitlement for this club. They see us as a club that have never achieved anything in the last 23 years and are a million miles away from the top 6.

Climbing to 8th from where we were when he took over is a decent turnaround. It was never about performances. It was about making us tougher to beat and gaining points. He did his job and can leave with a pat on the back from me.

He has a wife, 2 children, and 4 Grandchildren. He's a human being who will have real feelings. He isn't a robot and it doesn't make any difference how much money he makes. He doesn't deserve the shit he gets simply because he had the cheek to take the job in the first place. We knew what we were getting. Why so angry at Sam? He is who he is. If you're angry at anyone, then it should be the fella that employed him.

Personally, I think it made sense to bring him in, but for our sake and his, he should leave.

This is all led by our limp, crowd-following editors, terrified (like the Kenwright Echo) of condemning the managers who did the real damage – Martinez and Koeman – until it was absolutely safe to do so but who couldn't wait to put the boot in to a popular target like Allardyce. Nor are they willing to publish posts which strongly threaten the pitiful consensus on here, lest delicate souls be offended.

Hilarious that such timid shadows should be accusing Allardyce of a lack of boldness.

I feel the same regarding the standard of football, but we knew what we were getting, and after such a dreadful start, we needed to prioritise points over entertainment.

If we finish 8th then that's acceptable considering where we were. So it's a thanks and bye for me.

Bye for me too, but I can't bring myself to say thanks as I don't believe we were ever going down (I've consistently said that), and also believe just about any manager would have kept us up. Outside the top 6, the Premier League is that bad hence why we've managed to sit in 8th place having played awful; that is not an achievement in this league.

And now his MotD cronies are backing him up.

Moshiri hired Allardyce to do a specific job. It's a job he's done several times and is, if you like, his speciality. He's done that job, can't argue with that.

The reason he should be let go should have nothing to do with us hating him, or not being able to stand him – the reason is/should be that we now need someone who can take us to the next level of our progression and possibly beyond.

Allardyce has proved time and again that that isn't his strength and it makes good business, as well as football sense to hire someone who can take us forward. Simple as that.

Our expectations have changed based on what? Past twenty years of champions league football. Paying thousands for a season ticket? Trophy cabinet not being replenished for two years?

This can't go on. Sam has to go because the atmosphere will be to toxic next season. Funny thing is if we had won a cup would personality of the manager be a problem? Perhaps we have taken being a premiership club for granted.

Your total disdain for all things Allardyce is well-recorded here on TW. Going back to when it was first mooted he was in the running for the manager's job, you grandstanded on here declaring you would not attend another game whilst he was manager, rapidly climbing down from your stated position when he was appointed.

No problem, Steve. Your right to change your mind and position when reality kicks in over rumour.

You also went to great lengths to claim every single club Sam Allardyce managers eventually gets relegated because he leaves them in total disarray. Many challenged you on that and exposed the fallacy of your claims.

You hit back saying 'Palace and WHU were certs to go down this season because they were mis-managed by Allardyce.' That's not going to happen, is it Steve? And you could not categorically lay the blame at Sam Allardyce's feet even if your (over) confident prediction did come to pass, could you? (Well...YOU could, possibly).

And here you are again, fabricating claims that some TWers are now presenting Allardyce as 'less Lardiola and more Guardiola' after 2 successive wins.

I'm not reading that at all. Yes, there are 1-2 posters who are over-stating things (and I fancy one of them in particular is a plant, a bit of a wind-up merchant), but a solid movement in favour of retaining SA for next season...?

Nah...I'm not seeing that at all.

What I'm reading, from fairer more balanced posters not given to scornful vitriol as a default, is an acknowledgment that the team was solid today, had passages of proper joined up football and, with surer footing and greater composure at key moments, could have had another couple of goals to show from today's game.

As for your claims 'he favours aging players over youth', does that really stand up to inspection in his time at Everton?

Like Unsworth, he selected and stuck with Kenny in Coleman's absence when other options were available.
Once Coleman proved his fitness, who would you prioritize at right back? Kenny or Coleman?

It was Allardyce, not Koeman or Unsworth, who gave Holgate an extended run at his default centre back position, when other managers in his time at Everton picked him mostly at right or even left back. He has re-introduced Keane at centre back and whilst still far from being rock solid, the young centre back HAS improved in recent weeks.

Tom Davies by most Evertonians reckoning has not been as effective in his 2nd season as he was in his 1st. He's 19, FFS! It's allowed! Many would ship him out as 'a Championship player at best', and yet...he continues to get game time under Allardyce.

Before Tosun and Walcott arrived, DLC was a regular pick for Allardyce, so much so he was clearly burned out around the Xmas and New Year fixture log. In spite of the improved options available to Allardyce in DLC's position, he continued to play him, often ahead of Oumar Niasse.

Lookman and Vlasic are also used as sticks to beat Sam with. I like them both, but Vlassic's performance today is another reminder this young man still has a lot to learn to justify a starting spot, whilst Lookman - as was the case this season at Everton - is not a regular starter at RB Leipzig and has also suffered the ignominy of being subbed out at half-time after starting the game, as happened twice this season for Everton under 2 different managers. Another one far from being a nailed on starter.

I close by taking issue with another fabrication you charge Allardyce with; that he has turned Everton into 'a small club, with small club tactics, attitudes and goals'.

I rather think you need to reflect on the whole history of the PL and the governance of the club in that time rather than brand Sam Allardyce with that charge, Steve.

All I'm trying to say is, stay or go, Sam deserves some respect. Some of the vitriol aimed his way is embarrassing to be honest.

I have never read anything that convinces me that Allardyce should not be sacked. Put up an article Tony, because I would like to think that my views are not so entrenched that I can not accept a reasoned argument.

You have been posting on here for as long as me so you must remember how ferocious the debate was in the later Moyes years. It was, in my view, interesting, provocative and worthwhile. If you recall, lots of comments about me were removed (I wish they hadn't been) but sometimes football websites are not for the faint-hearted.

What's the alternative? Louis van Moonhead? Shaun Dyche? Fuckin Eddie Howe? Give him another year I say.

All seems to be an element of snobbery to me. Mourinho does the same but, if he was here, the “fans” would be lauding him. But Sam's got a big head so get rid. Joe Royle's got a bigger head and played shithouse football but that was okay?

You actually believe that he, for six million a year is doing a good job? You really think that? Do you not think we deserve better than this losing, actually seriel losing, dinosaur?

As a fan, who chooses to watch Everton as a way of passing free my time, it is just miserable to watch. I have recently stopped watching, that started with the derby.

I woke up, (game time 8 here), and thought about getting up to watch the game... . then decided to treat myself to extra sleep.

If Sam stays as manager, with such awful football, I doubt I'll get round to watching more than a couple of games. Just not worth it.

Moshiri and his acolytes need to make a statement this summer, by deed rather than word, and appoint a manager with aptitude to play winning attractive football well before the end of a three year contract minimum, to spell it out to the squad and the football world beyond that they're serious as football people, rather than the disjointed amateurs they've become as far as I'm concerned in the past two years.

If their choice is Allardyce we'll all then have big decisions to make as fans and supporters won't we?

It is Sam's style of play, player selection, his arrogance since taking over, and not just on this one rare away win.

Week after week, we have witnessed the worst brand of football; not many came on and defended Sam then. Now, due to beating a relegation-threatened team, we have turned into the pre '85 title team and should not be too hasty in wanting a brighter young manager, who could at least get us playing football.

I for one am not being taken in on the back of this result and hope we have a fresh start in the Summer, starting with management and new recruitment within the team, bringing in quality over quantity.

Sam out, not because I am a Sam hater – I am not, I am an Evertonian who can no longer put up with the dire negative football we have been playing.

"This is all led by our limp, crowd-following editors, terrified (like the Kenwright Echo) of condemning the managers who did the real damage – Martinez and Koeman – until it was absolutely safe to do so but who couldn't wait to put the boot in to a popular target like Allardyce. Nor are they willing to publish posts which strongly threaten the pitiful consensus on here, lest delicate souls be offended."

Forgive me if your delicate soul is offended, but I think that paragraph may just constitute the single biggest crock of absolute crap that I have ever read here.

First, your statement is factually incorrect. As one who is constitutionally reluctant to change managers except when the situation is desperate, I was one of the last to call for Roberto's head, and I can tell you that Michael in particular was among the first, months ahead of me.

Second, if there's one thing Lyndon and Michael can never be accused of, it's timidity. Lyndon is always clear and unequivocal in his opinions, and Michael goes well beyond that -- I've challenged him several times in the past for what I considered undue vehemence. For better or worse, I've never known him to hold back one ounce. Limp? Not hardly.

And third, I challenge you to cite even one instance in which these editors refused to publish a post about Allardyce because they disagreed with it. Just one. Otherwise, I call that pure bullshit.

I think - and I have said so directly to Michael and Lyndon - that this site has become tediously bigoted about Allardyce. I have been astounded and depressed that my fellow Evertonians have, from the very outset, been so irrationally vile about him, repeatedly making lazy and personal attacks which are unprecedented and disproportionate.

The manager has taken a woefully unfit, confidence-shredded, moderately talented (at best) group of players to 8th place. It has been unpretty but I am mightily glad that we are safe and I simply cannot understand the pure loathing that Allardyce attracts. I genuinely find it graceless and embarrassing; it is not what Evertonians should be about.

This man is not the devil. I think he will do well next season if he is allowed to stay and I think we will see much more attractive football. It may be that he is the platform-builder, the layer of the first ugly but necessary foundation stone.

Give him a serious chance because all the talk of bright new managers is so much speculation and carries with it an awful danger.

By contrast, they have launched in against Allardyce, as most on this site have done, because he is easy prey.

Written shit many times, been "barred" for it a couple of times, but not for a football opinion ever. For being stupid to others. Take a breath, kiddah.

My thoughts: we have an underperforming squad (I don't know who's to blame). I firmly believe that Big Sam & Co have saved us from relegation but we are still in limbo.

I urge the board to go for Eddie Howe with a long-term contract. Let's rip up the whole philosophy and stats thing and start again with a young progressive manager. After all, do we seriously want to watch this drivel again just to stay in the Premier League?

As you can read on Michael's life match report and from my posting history on TW, my position and opinion on Sam Allardyce has remained consistent since it was first rumoured he could be appointed manager to this very day:

* I was opposed;

* I saw it as a panicked move by the board as, unlike many, I didn't consider we were likely relegation candidates this season;

* Having been appointed, I was willing to give him time to make his mark;

* The football he has produced has been an endurance, not a pleasurable experience;

* From early commonsense and frank pressers, he has increasingly been self-promoting, unwilling to take responsibility for failures, but happy to throw people under the bus;

* I personally believe it would be in our best interests to release him at season's end, but I acknowledge this late season upturn in form could secure him the gig for next season.

It really is possible to write as I did to Steve Ferns without being considered a Sam Allardyce acolyte or apologist, but rather, being opposed to both his appointment and continuation as manager.

Just because I don't resort to schoolboy name calling of our manager, but am capable of assessing Everton's performances on a game-by-game basis, doesn't place me in the camp you attempt to (falsely) place me in.

It's called balance. Try it some time. You might surprise yourself.

Everton and many other teams are now in the position where traditional forms of success, winning trophies, is unlikely. That's a reality, so entertainment is the prime concern of many a fan now. That's how you enjoy the match and build memories.

Evertonians can say neither under Allardyce. He said himself that's all he can do. The opportunity was there to be expansive, the chance was there to grasp. The irony being, if he has just tried to win games, pitiful as we are, we'd be 7th easy, look at us now?

The man doesn't understand what people want. As long as that disconnect is there, no chance, mate.

Come on, you know it.

I think that, as an articulate, respected poster, you have a duty to do what must be done. That is; call out Allardyce and do not try to defend, for the admirable but, this time, unreasonable attempt at balance, the indefensible.

Sometimes, the "mob" are right.

Going by the slight improvement in style on show yesterday, which the live forum (well most of it) picked up on... we were pinging it about a bit in the first half. One wag stated 'we're playing like City till we cross the halfway line'. I would guess that Sam's sacking is on hold – for now, a bit like a suspended sentence.

Moshiri's parting comment went somewhat like... 'Sam, try and up the style, ffs. We can't move in our inboxes for complaints1'

Unless a Manager becomes available that causes Moshiri to have a rush of blood to the wallet, Allardyce will be here in August.

If Brands does come in carrying his menu of 'Interesting and innovative' foreign players... "What can I get you, Sam?"

The reply will be: "Pie, chips, peas and gravy, lots of gravy... oh and that Shawcross and Rondon too, bring me proper stuff like that."

Now there's a thought to put a damper on your summer holidays. Actually, I'd not mind Shawcross per se, but it is short-termism.

But that's been the last 6 months in a nutshell and Allardyce is short-termism writ large – always was, always will be.

There's another damper for your hols.

Since Moyes left, we've been less than average 2 out 5 seasons: average last season, horrendous for half a season this year, and good for one season with Martinez. We need a season of proper building to stabilise 7th to 5th position, if not higher, and a good cup run. Sam Allardyce would definitely do the former for next season.

We can establish our position in the top 6 or 7 next season. Sam Allardyce's contract is out therefore no pay-out. We say thank you and get a good quality manager who now sees our upward trajectory and could take us on and stays for a longer term.

If he is crap next season, we sack him. Moshiri has shown he will sack a manager. And we pretty much will have the same quality or even group of managers as we have now vying for the position, not many of whom fill me with much more excitement than Allardyce.

That seems a sensible approach: Build and recruit better when we are better.

On a side note, I think Derek (#67) has it right re the Moshiri - Allardyce meeting.

This is exactly what I feared. Sam wins the last three very winnable games and claims he's done wonders.

If you want to watch this shite next year be my guest.

But it's shite. I want Sam out now. I wanted Sam out months ago.

The snake-oil salesman will point to recent results. But .

Next year will be a non-issue, non-exciting, piece of shit if we keep this man at the helm.

It'll be awful.

Back to the liquor.

We beat Huddersfield. Roll on Sam? Oh how our bar has been lowered! Shit, shit football is not to my liking.

Pass the Jameson's!

I haven't labelled any individual, or any lobby group 'a mob'.

I don't question anybody for wanting the manager removed.

I haven't changed my position on Sam Allardyce being first recruited as our manager, or continuing as our manager next season. Not for me, ta verily.

I am calling out, in this thread, Steve Ferns for a couple of claims he made:

1) that SA promotes aging players over youth, and
2) that SA is THE person to blame for 'turning Everton into 'a small club, with small club tactics, attitudes and goals'.

Sam Allardyce does not charm with his personality, his public utterances, or his football.

And that is possibly a convenient distraction, deflecting the blame from those who ARE responsible for 'turning Everton into 'a small club, with small club tactics, attitudes and goals' since the inauguration of the PL.

THAT is going to be THE KEY CHANGE at Everton FC; an owner with a clear vision who appoints the very best professionals to run the club (you might be aware of why I lobby for Nicole Cortese as our next CEO) along the same lines as our more competent peers, NOT if Sam Allardyce is retained or replaced come the end of the season. That merely papers over the cracks.

I have been avidly following Everton for 54 seasons and I have never been more bored nor so uninterested as I am at this moment. A relegation-threatened team actually created more opportunities than we did today.

We were dull, slow-witted and hesitant and very lucky to get the breakaway for the first goal. Is this the brand of football we can expect next season? It is about as entertaining as watching two old men playing dominoes.

Do you honestly believe that calling users of this site "gobshites" and "fucking idiots" would persuade us to believe you had anything of value to contribute? But still we allow you to post...

Yes, talking of 'vile' and 'classless' let's take a look at some of your profound utterances:

"Gobshites of ToffeeWeb unite, you have nothing to lose but your brains"

"We have developed a disgraceful, moaning, toxic core to our fanbase, many of whom are on here."

"You fucking idiots on here who can't bear the idea that Allardyce might succeed."

"The idea that the reflex moaners on here represent Evertonian opinion is bollocks."

Did you really expect us to read your directives, and transform the zeitgeist on here into a "Be Nice to Allardyce" love-in, based on your rather one-eyed conviction that he has somehow been mischaracterized and misunderstood? Sadly, as me mam used to say, "You're the only one in step."

I won't bore you by reciting what plenty of fans can actually see for themselves watching the anti-football this man plays.

I do blame Sam for the awful football and his attitude in taking undeserved credit and deflecting blame to individuals. This should be kept in house.

His comment's and beliefs are stuck in the past. He likes to play %, keep it tight, work hard, don't mess around and get the ball forward quickly.

His mightily impressive Bolton team was a great achievement for Bolton. Similar to Burnley the last few seasons. Get on a winning run as underdogs and over achieve and quite rightly they can have praise for achieving so much with so little. The football is overlooked because of their achievement.

We were that small team, favourites for relegation 20 years ago. We had nothing, over achieved season after season and became stabilised as a team pushing for European football. The model to follow for many.

We slowly improved the football, the consistency, the youth development and we moved past the relegation nightmares on to European dreams.

Sam is still stuck thinking 40 points will do. We are not a small club like Bolton or the poor Everton team of 20 years ago. We have taken strides forward and rightly expect that to continue.

Sam lacks any long term vision, no planning or nurturing young talent to move a club forward. He has never had to. Its all about the now, get 40 points job done.

If he and we accept that we are not going to challenge for the Premier league or win a cup (I don't remember Sam ever bothering with the FA or League cups) then what's left for us fans to keep on supporting and turning up. A bit of effort and entertainment. That's an appalling mindset to have.

Effort appears to be improving but football or entertainment hasn't and Sam's track record speaks for itself. It never will.

I only hope there is someone at the club who will not let all of our young jewels be sold off for the short term gain. Hope is vanishing fast.

But I'll finish with a bit of positivity. Things could definitely be worse like 20 years ago. Choping and changing managers out of desperation. I'd rather have a poor but mid table safety Sam in charge over some of the inexperienced manager names thrown around. Mike Walker gung-ho football seemed a great fit, Smith with all his Scottish experience, past his best legend Kendall. I laugh now but they were dark days. Some risks just aren't worth taking. (cold shudder).

Personally, I think it's chickenshit that you are "not going to say more about that" because I think you owe them two more words: "I apologize."

But I doubt you have the cojones to step up.

Calling your fellow Evertonians 'gobshites', 'fucking idiots', 'disgraceful, moaning, toxic' to defend cynical, arrogant Allardyce? Hang your head in shame. The posters up in arms on this site about the manager represent the true heart of this club, the aspiration that we can be more than the last 30 years and the expectation that we as lifetime supporters deserve better. My sons have never seen Everton win a trophy. That fills me with shame, sadness and anger that something has to change. Now.

New CEO, chairman, Director of Football, Commercial Director, manager, coaching staff and the replacement of players who have let the team down all season - Williams, Schneiderlin, Mirallas to name but three. Time for change, because if we are as passive in the face of institutionalised mediocrity as we have been for decades then we are finished as a club.

1000 supporters now signed in 2 days. Have you?

Name calling? I don't think I've reverted to that; I've given my opinion on his abilities as a football coach.

Balance; I think I have been, but thanks for the advice; I'll take it on board.

33 points in 22 games. 1.5 points a game. Over a 38 match season that is 57 points. No where the top 6, more like 7th or 8th.

Keeping Allardyce will be a signal from the owners of a further downgrade of ambitions. From a top 4 challenge promised on Moshiri's arrival, to a top 6 challenge at the start of the season, to 7th or 8th.

Burnley and Leicester, with smaller attendances, turnover, and wage bills are our challengers for the coveted lower top half.

A section of the support see this dismal downgrade in expectations as progress, due to our early season form, without appreciating the context of our revival under Allardyce: the return of key players such as Coleman, the January arrivals of Walcott and Tosun and a greater number of home games against sides below us than Koeman or Unsworth.

Analyse his record carefully and you find this is one of the best win % of his career and yet for us on par or below where we have been for the last dozen years.

If you're happy watching that shit every week, having Sam as the manager, watching our club having no leadership and imo becoming more and more distant from us, the supporters, then fair play – carry on. I'm sure Blue Bill and Farhad will be more than happy taking more of your money whilst serving you utter shite every week on the pitch while frankly, what looks like from the outside, having had a real go at making it at best shambolic in running our club.

The club is in a mess, imo, and I just said after record sales of season tickets, a walkout at on 78 minutes won't have any effect. Farhad and Blue Bill know the majority of fans don't like Sam but he's still here; so, if the said majority didn't turn up for, I would guess, like at Arsenal, what would be a handful of games, then that would have more of an effect, don't you think?

So, if you want to bring the Red Shite in on that, Dave, then my advice would be to take your obsession with them horrible twats and be more concerned about what fucking mess our club is in and maybe do something about it? Oh no, wait... it's not the Everton way, is it????

We say they are deluded but, as I see it, we are the deluded ones... as, in 23 years since our last trophy, we have just sat back and watched our club go from one mess, disaster or whatever word you care to use without actually doing anything but moan to each other or on social media. So we are deluding ourselves again if we think by not doing anything something will change.

Against Southampton next week, let's say we're winning 2-0 on the 78th minute – does anyone really think the majority will stand up as one and walk out? No chance. You might get a few but most will stay and applaud that manager and them players for another season of failure, but think by winning the last few games against worse teams than us is some sort of victory. Typical Everton, that.

Does Sam and his family being wealthy justify your abuse?
The fact is that many on here show that it is possible to not like Allardyce and not want him as manager, and at the same time NOT be vile about it.

See Jay Wood's post at 64

If you're that easily offended, maybe you should take up knitting and stay off social media as, if you hadn't noticed, it's not all nicey-nicey in the real world.

That I decided to keep going the game, is my business, but have you seen the cost of tickets recently, and some cost far more than the cheapest stated prices.

As for youth, you're wrong. He played Kenny and Martina when he had no other alternatives. Martina stayed in the side far longer than Kenny and remained on the bench, whilst Kenny was dropped from the squad.

Tom Davies was left out time and again at the expense of the much more out of form Schneiderlin.

Calvert-Lewin barely figured in his preferred role of striker under Allardyce and has not had a sustained run of games (3 starts in a row) since Allardyce bought Tuson.

Vlasic has barely figured until yesterday. Lookman was loaned out. Both are as effective as Bolasie, but need games to settle and find their form and improve.

Baningime had a few games initially as Allardyce kept Unsworth's side. Since, he has had a couple of substitute appearances but instead of replacing the misfiring Davies, it's Schmeidelin who came in, when Rooney and the side needed legs, not a statue.

Holgate played and did well when he had to play him due to injury. He dispatched him as quick as he could.

Have a good day Jay, enjoy the Brazilian weather and be pleased that reports are Kenwright leaves in August.

Ronnie said are you happy with this football and do you go the match. YES, was his replay. I've been going since the 60s. I have seen Young, Ball etc.

So this bloke has seen all these players plus The 80s team, and is happy with the football we are playing now.

How have we sunk to so low expectations? If there are older supports like him thinking the same there is no hope for us.

Inevitably that must include the replacement of Allardyce, as we will clearly not progress under this man. By the way, I do blame Allardyce for taking advantage of the situation. I give him no leeway for dishonourably exploiting our Club. The weakness & inadequacy of our leadership from Board down do not offer any excuse. However, he is "...simply being himself." To me that means arrogant, greedy & completely self-serving - which I don't say to be abusive, merely an honest assessment of the man based on his long history in the game.

Mike Gaynes, I agree with everything you say - so I won't repeat my own thoughts!

Great posts from Don 54; Brian 55 and Michael 72. Good reposte Steve, 94.

Jamie 69, I hope you wake up with a better head than mine this morning!

The truth is Everton were fortunate to go in one ahead at half time yesterday. They improved in the second half but they only improved to the point they were slightly less turgid than they have been all season.

That is no reason for the sudden rush of support from some people for Allardyce to remain. He is anti-football in all its senses and I for one want to see him out of our club and a new man at the helm and to hell what the MotD and other pundits think. It is a case of thank you Sam but no thank you Sam.

What I don't understand is how anyone can want him to continue in the role. Even if you believe his hype that he saved the club. Great, thanks. But time to go because as a club surely we are not just looking to survive and this is what FS has done all his career. Awful football designed to survive. Even at our worst I have always believed the club wanted more. FS staying would scream that is all we are after and we as supporters will need to get used to dross with no hopebof it changing

God forbid

I've also said, the bloated and inbalanced squad of players he inherited were not his signings, so he gets a pass on that score. But, here's the rub, will he do anything different next season? History tells us no, he won't. Will Moyes do anything differently at West Ham? No, he won't.

This type of manager are quite content with top-half finishes. If that means they have to serve up turgid football, then they won't bat an eyelid on the journey to their 40 point nirvana. Draws are viewed as wins at any away ground.

We pay our manager a salary commensurate with any top European club. We have a more expensively assembled squad than Spurs. For what ends?

Keeping Allardyce would send a message to the footballing world, and our support, that top-half Premiership finishes are good enough. Never mind the defensive crap the long-suffering fans have to endure every week.

Personalities aside, he's not good or progressive enough to take us anywhere. Although I did realise a long time ago that some of our fans are content with 7th, and 'a good run in the cups' (spit) That's their prerogative of course.

Just a little in formation for you regarding Huddersfield's home fixtures this season:-

Huddersfield Town 2 - 1 Manchester United, October 2017
Huddersfield Town 0 - 2 Everton, April 2018

Just a little comparison for you.

And any fans who are mongering the idea of another year to stabilise the ship???? So the next Manager can come in and rip Allardyces stabilised ship up like Martinez did with Moyes team?? What a waste of 2-3 years that would be.

It's not a coincidence that the top 5 Managers in this league gave a blueprint and formula that wins games and brings success, and it's transferable to any club the are employed by. The Manager is the most important appointment a club can make from the groundsman to the chairman. It's his formula, vision, determination, style of play, in a much more attacking style of play than Allardyce can offer. I don't want to go through next season scrounging 1-nil wins whilst having 2 shots per game.

Tottenham, Liverpool, man city have shown the rest of the league the way forward and we want to be part of that.

And anyone who thinks it gets better from here is deluded, unhinged, off with the fairies. It didn't get any better with the 12 clubs he has managed. Talk to Hammers fans, talk to Palace fans, Newcastle, Sunderland, Blackburn - they all despise him. Only Bolton fans have a kind word to say about him and we're not Bolton, although some mediocrity mongers on here seem to think that is the benchmark.

Over 17 trophyless years of failure and some are suggesting we continue this one minute beyond what it is necessary?!

Sam did play some decent football (with decent players) at Bolton but ever since at Blackburn, Newcastle, WHU etc... he's been universally disliked by the fans for his boring brand of pragmatic footy. Is this a coincidence?

If you are happy with him then you will eventually be watching Everton on your own as most people, I presume, wish to be entertained, enthused and enjoy watching Everton play.

I keep saying this, but no one seems to have an answer, name a manager that would actually come to Everton and make us a top 6 team ?

As for the he's a human being with kids etc posts, with respect you're not getting this. I despise Allardyce for his anti football philosophy and his attitude towards fans. I'm not interested in his family although I do recall that when BBC Panorama exposed him and his son (“our Craig “, allegedly a football agent) for taking bungs in their Bolton days, Allardyce's loud and indignant oath to sue the BBC for false accusations never actually happened. Why not, I wonder?

The reality is they don't know our history, a club with a proud tradition of firsts, of record breaking goal scorers, a ‘then' fantastic ground that hosted a WC semi-final and attractive football. Since the inception of the premier league we have been a pale shadow of our former selves bar Joe Royles short tenure, a couple of seasons under Moyes and Martinez's first season. We are at a crossroads, Moshiri needs to demonstrate genuine ambition on and off the pitch - get a manager and a structure that reflects this - not this anti football mercenary.

Not all pundits in FS thrall -Ronnie Goodlass gives him a good kicking on the radio and Dave Thomas and Derek Mountfield were scathing about the quality of football at Bob Latchfords 40 after 30 talk the other night.

We are realistic we know winning trophies is going to be difficult but that journey starts with trying to win every match by being prepared to attack the opposition regardless of who they are.

For me, we have to go to Simeone, or Conte, Emery and offer them a package that they can't refuse, hefty wages and a goid transfer chest. The chances are they might not come, and thats when we then try for Fonseca or Ancelotti.

But we get the likes of Garth Crooks on the BBC lambasting the Everton fans for having the gall to call for Allardyce to be sacked. I would love to know how many times he has watched Everton play this year, like a lot of pundits watches 10 minutes of highlights. The atmosphere at Goodison is awful, and its because of the turgid football we are forced to watch. Carragher quite rightly identified a major floor in Allardyces make up, when he said that Allardyce needs to cut out the Me Me approach as Evertonians wont put up with it. And Carragher was right all we have heard from Allardyce is I have done this or that yet when results have gone against us its the players fault.
He tries to claim the victory over West Ham as his victory, when Unsworth stated unequivocally that Allardyce had absolutely no imput into tactics or team selection for that game. Allardyce also claimed that Unsworth was desperate for Allardyce to take over, I will be interested to hear what David Unsworth has to say if the club ever allow him to speak on this matter.

I have been going to Goodison since 1956 and for the first time in my life I will be joining the protest of walking out of the Southampton game after 78 minutes. I have never left a game early or ever booed my team, but this man and his ideals have left me no choice but to join the protest. I have seen some terrible managers and players and teams, but the difference between all the others and Allardyce is they tried to win the game, rather than try not to lose the game.

"While Everton have some of the dreariest statistics in the Premier League, Liverpool have scored at least five goals past every opponent on their way to the verge of a Champions League final – 10 over two legs against Maribor, eight against Spartak Moscow, six against Hoffenheim, five versus Sevilla, Porto, Manchester City and, in the first leg of their semi-final, Roma.

Everton, on other hand, went into the weekend 19th out of the 20 clubs in the Premier League when it comes to the number of shots they have managed on Allardyce's watch, 19th in terms of efforts on target, 19th in chances created and 19th for attempted dribbles. Again, Allardyce can point out that the only statistics that should matter are the points that have taken the team into the top half of the table. Plainly, however, it does matter to many Everton followers. The supporters want more. Is that so unreasonable?"

Allardyce has done the job he was asked to do using the methods we expected, so I don't understand the vitriol. I don't want him to stay as he was brought in to deal with the mess of others and this has now been resolved.

The problem is who could we bring in, as I don't recall any outstanding candidates in the farce of last autumn's search. Personally, I would like Brendan Rodgers. Please not Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche.

"Everton, on other hand, went into the weekend 19th out of the 20 clubs in the Premier League when it comes to the number of shots they have managed on Allardyce's watch, 19th in terms of efforts on target, 19th in chances created and 19th for attempted dribbles."

That's entertainment!

First up, may I refer you to Michael's Live Match Report thread yesterday in which (again!) I make my position on Sam Allardyce and how the talking heads in the media are castigating the Everton supporters crystal clear in my posts 36, 62 and 76.

Link

To reply to your post, you continue to pedal the myth that Allardyce leaves any and every club he manages in total disarray which eventually ends in relegation.

You claim this as a 'fact'. Whilst it may be a 'fact' that some teams Allardyce managed were eventually relegated 2-3-4 years after he departed, you have never established with absolute certainty that the unique or even primary cause of a club's eventual relegation was directly due to the mismanagement under Allardyce's tenure.

It is a false premise you have totally failed to prove.

On your decision to continue going to the game in spite of your earlier grandstanding that you wouldn't as long as Sam Allardyce was Everton manager, as I already said in my original post, that is your right. But don't act surprised and indignant when someone highlights the folly of making such public declarations only to retract them when reality kicks in.

As for the youth, I am not wrong at all. You neatly side-step all the counters.

Sam Allardyce inherited a squad with one recognized senior left back Leighton Baines, who joined Seamus Coleman and Funes-Mori as long-term injured. With the resources available to him, he juggled the defence as best as he could.

I repeat my question to you: when both fit, who would you select at right back - Coleman or Kenny?

With Oviedo sold, Browning and Galloway sent out on loan (by previous management), now Coleman and Baines are both fit, it makes perfect sense to have Martina as cover on the bench, rather than Kenny. It hasn't been critical because neither has been subbed out.

And in that regard, I was amused that in your preferred XI for yesterday's game - having trumpeted playing Kenny over Martina in this thread - you overlook both and promoted Luke Garbutt to left back in the event Baines couldn't play.

That would be the Luke Garbutt who last played PL football for Everton in the 2014-15 season, who in subsequent seasons on loan failed to break into a struggling Fulham side in the Championship and then was never selected in another Championship side, Wigan, who were relegated that season? Riggghhhtttt...

On your claims of 'Tom Davies being left out time and again at the expense of the much more out of form Schneiderlin', check your facts. You might be surprised at how many times Tom was preferred over Morgan (or Gana) in recent months.

Calvert-Lewin most certainly DID play in his preferred striker role under Allardyce, more so than he did under either Koeman or Allardyce. He has continued to feature ahead of Niasse since Allardyce bought Tuson. And again, currently, when all available, who would be your first pick as striker - Tosun, DCL or Niasse?

As for the Bolasie, Lookman, Vlasic position, not one of them has impressed sufficiently to say 'I dare you to drop me'.

For me, initially, Allardyce quickly got the defence sorted. And he did so with an unlikely looking back four of Kenny-Holgate-Williams-Martina. The Xmas and New Year fixture log broke that up due to the need to rotate players. It is the one thing above all others that I question Allardyce on. Having identified a back four which registered the most shutouts this season, why did he break it up? He would possibly counter that the Jags-Keane partnership is looking better and better with each passing game.

I also note you totally avoid commenting on your other claim I took issue with, that it is Sam Allardyce (rather than poor governance of the club by its guardians for the whole duration of the PL) that has turned Everton into 'a small club, with small club tactics, attitudes and goals'.

I 'get' your dislike of Sam Allardyce, Steve.

However, your evident contempt for the man leads you into making false claims and statements that cannot necessarily be laid at his feet.

It's either-

1) I've spent enough money so let's stick with Sam, spend little this summer, reduce the squad size, and concentrate on the new stadium and longer-term return on investment.

or

2) Show commitment to developing the club by taking control and not accepting mid-table at best – sack Sam, clear out the mediocrity that has enveloped the club for the last nearly 25 years. Bring in more investment, buy out the other shareholders who can't afford to invest as needed.

To be fair to Bill Kenwright, he steadied the club after the Peter Johnson years and that is easily forgotten. But now even Bill and Jon Woods can surely see the need to sell to bring in bigger investments to compete and put us back where we belong fighting for trophies.

Over to you now, Mr Moshiri – empty new stadium of the future or time to make the past the present?

I read that myself today.

Is it just me who feels he has developed a rampant case of narcolepsy every time a post goes up starting along the lines of "I'm no fan of Sam" then going on to list a load of irrelevant facts which add nothing to debate?

The guy has us playing like a bunch of white walkers... he played anti-football before he came, he has done it since he came, and he will still be doing it until the day he is marched out.

Meaningless stats about how we climbed to the dizzy heights of 12th from bottom in a league containing 13 or 14 awful sides are as sleep-inducing as the football we are being served up. I don't care how many points we have accumulated when we were kicking downhill or against the wind. I want to see something which closely resembles football.

Get this football criminal out of our club!!!

Absolutely, Darren. I am watching one of them here, West 'Am. With a manager to match, "Moysey" — the same manager some Evertonians still revere.

And to think some Blues still revere Moysey... I hope the fixtures and results work out where we can put them down on the last day of the season.

Darren (#126), what's a 'white walker'?

I think Kevin's comment about the Moyes - Allardyce comparison is fair. In fact, if you take the points gained by Moyes against the points gained by Allardyce since he took over it could be argued that Allardyce is the better manager this season.

Allardyce is hopeless... what does that make Moyes?

I guess you and a lot of others will then sleep a lot easier for a while, your moral compass will be back in place.

Let's step away from Allardyce & Everton for a moment but stay close to the subject and his peers.

A sad indictment and evidence of the British manager mentality is West Ham today and Stoke yesterday. Two teams who need to win yet set up not to lose. Sit deep in banks of 4. Shape, aggression and discipline are the priority, not trying to win the game.

Both failed and were awful to watch whilst not achieving their miserable aim. Top opposition; yes, but mind elsewhere / season already done.

If you can't TRY and win a game when you desperately need too, you will never succeed.

I know my very rare (these days) attendance at Goodison makes no impression whatsoever but I fear I may be part of a silent, growing army of fans who have just been turned off in recent years by the dull, turgid shite served up at Goodison and the shenanigans at board level.

Be it at the ground or on the box you want feel passion for your team, and to be entertained, but under Sam, Koeman and Roberto they've managed to (almost) kill that feeling.

Football supporters.

Mike @ 130 wasn't "revering" him. he was simply making the obvious observation that Moyes was nowhere near as bad as Allardyce is. I guess the only people who would dispute that would be those who roared their approval when Sam was appointed.

White walkers are the dead – Game of Thrones

My point, Trevor, was that, if you don't see Everton ever getting back to the very top level, why do you still go? I presume you are still going. If you live abroad or in a different part of the country, then I understand why you can't go to the game.

Just as worrying though is that I'm not enjoying watching many other games anymore as they are just so predictable, particularly when the top 3 or 4 teams player the lower teams.

Ironically the money in the game is killing it as a spectacle even though it is attracting some of the world's best and most gifted players.

Don't get me wrong, Man City do play good attractive football (they should given they've spent the GNP of a small country on the world's best players!) but if the opposition does not/cannot compete the end product is less than satisfying.

I would argue the spectacle/product is nowhere near as good as back in the 60s/70s/80s when any team turned up expecting to win or at least get a result against any other team in the league.

Looks like I might have to start watching some lower league football, at least it is competitive.

Without that intense competitiveness the game is looking more and more like international friendlies look, boring training sessions. Not for me.

To bring Joe Royle into this with a comment like that is just plain silly. Prior to the FA Cup semi-final in 1995, Spurs already had their name on the cup – or according to the football world it was. Not only did we beat them – we hammered them and, as you will know, we won the Cup. Joe had rescued us and put proper fight into that team with a fair bit of exciting play.

Sam Allardyce is of the same cloth as Moyes who is defeated before he starts against the stronger clubs; we need somebody in with a football brain.

Sam's job is done. He is in the direct line of fire from us supporters with his tactics and egotistical manner. Moshiri is the one who is responsible for hiring him; if he keeps him, then clearly our leader is the biggest problem.

This malaise has been running through the club for nigh on 25 years, which, with the best will in the world, would be hard to pin on Sam. It goes back to our board of Directors and Chairman, whose tenure probably shows why its not always best when a fan runs the club tbh.

Myself and various others plan to walk out on 78 minutes at the Southampton game as a general protest at the way our club is run, not just our dissatisfaction at the turgid football under Sam Allardyce. There are a lot of kids and women at Goodison in the Park End near me, so I assume lots more in the ground in general. I really wouldn't advocate singing "Fuck off Sam Allardyce" in their presence, besides which, he isn't the deep rooted cause of all wrong with the club.

I have renewed my season ticket, in the mistaken belief that Sam would have already had the bullet by now. Travelling over 300 miles per game is over £1000 in diesel, and with the ST cost, food etc, is a big outlay for me. I therefore expect a certain level of entertainment and maximum effort from my team, only to learn certain games are written off, cups are inconsequential, and owt above 40 points is a bonus. That is why I believe Sam Allardyce should leave, along with the shocking statistics reproduced by Kev Tully etc above.

I read an interesting piece in the Daily Mirror today that states that Kenwright's Chairmanship under the share agreement with Moshiri finishes in August this year. With Bill, Elstone and possibly more going, we will learn then exactly what sort of owner Moshiri will be. I'm still not sure personally.

This summer could turn out to be the most pivotal in our history. Lets hope it swings the right way.

If we find that lucky manager and start a big improvement will you come back? Plenty did after the barren years, when Howard Kendall gave us our pride back.

You did back Moyes to get more points than Allardyce though, in the remaining games since Allardyce was given the Everton gig.
I think you said you would put your mortgage on it?

Not supporting Allardyce in any way of course. He should be blown out asap.

Allardyce has had the benefit of Coleman, Baines and Jagielka back from injury, plus £50m for two attacking players and still has shown little or no ambition in terms of attacking play/entertainment.

I keep watching the pressers in the hope of some insight around how he's going to change his style from avoiding defeat to storming the top six. Nothing yet.

A proper CEO, robust management, accountability and Fonseca, please, Farhad. Sort it out asap.

Also big thumbs up to Michael Kenrick @72.

On one performance, I cannot believe people are being taken in and that Sam will bring entertaining football next season. I have seen too many games to have already made my mind up, certain players selected no matter what, the likes of Garbutt, Lookman, Klaassen, Vlasic (apart from yesterday) dismissed, the dire football tactics – everything for me points to getting a new manager in after the last game.

If we still have Sam here next season, I pity those who have already renewed their season tickets.

"David Moyes has spent this week teaching his West Ham squad how to play without the ball because he knows Manchester City will dominate it on Sunday.

Pep Guardiola's City have been breaking records when it comes to possession and passing this season and the newly-crowned Champions visit the London Stadium chasing Chelsea's record points tally set in 2004-05.

West Ham are still not safe from the drop and Moyes says they will try to cause City problems by showing patience and picking their moments to pounce."

John (#135), I wasn't talking about points. It's just that in 11 years of Moyes, through good times and bad, I never felt like just turning off the TV and walking away in disgust. I've done that not once but several times since December.

Even the 2003-04 season never felt this awful, this passionless. We may have stunk, but we never once looked like the zombie invasion I've seen at times this season.

My take on the comments following Moshiri's chitchat with Big Sam is that Moshiri is keeping options open. We don't know what the extent of Brand's role would be, but perhaps it could extend to choosing the manager. It might not therefore be down to Moshiri – he could then focus on other things, like Bramley-Moore Dock.

Taken together with rumours about Bill stepping aside, amongst others, it could be a busy summer ahead.

Arsenal have got miles better players than we have. They didn't sell their best striker in the summer and fail to adequately replace him (they sold theirs in January). They haven't had to play most of the season with no left-back and without their first choice right-back. They didn't waste money on three Number 10s and have to try and find a way to incorporate them in the same side before eventually giving up on one of them (hopefully two by the summer). They don't have a team with hardly any pace in it.

What's you, honest view on it, George? Is there a manager out there willing and capable of finding us success? Or are we doomed...

Sam Allardyce certainly had those three players back. Having had to manage a makeshift defence for over two months. He had Tosun too but found him miles off the pace for a month. He had repeatedly said that Schneiderlin was not the player he was at Southampton and got him back to a more effective player recently. He has made an effective centre-back out of Keane.

I say this not in his defence but to point out your bizarre selectivity of facts. Are you Amber Rudd in disguise?

Seems we're buying into his media spin. I've been honest from the onset. I didn't want him; I don't want him.

But surely the well-paid employees of our club have, and will know who is available and capable of taking us forward, because even I can see this man isn't the answer.

Unfortunately, I have, apparently, become unhinged and, frankly, incapable of writing such a post. It is the duty of you or Jay Wood to do it. Jay still wants balance so it is down to you. Stop appearing in and out of threads, write something that speaks for those who despise him.

This is my last post on the matter, I don't know why you are so obsessed with pointless point scoring.

Allardyce's former clubs:
Bolton W - left 2007, relegated 2012;
Newcastle U - 2008, relegated 2010;
Blackburn R - left 2010, relegated 2013;
West Ham U - left 2015, not relegated yet;
Sunderland - left 2016, relegated 2017;
Crystal Palace - left 2017, not relegated yet.

Those are facts Jay. How we interpret them is opinion, you say the fact that all but Bolton (and presumably West Ham if they get a couple more points) were relegated within 3 years of him leaving, was nothing to do with him. I say that his style of management and the state he left squads in for the next guy made the job that much harder. No one can prove anything one way or the other, what you really mean is that I haven't persuaded you. So fair play, you can't be persuaded. It doesn't mean I failed to prove anything as my opinion is my opinion and I'm entitled to it and you won't persuade me otherwise.

My season ticket costs well over twice the normal season ticket, so why would I leave it empty or just give it away when I still had around £1,000 worth of matches to go to, including the Euro packages I had already paid for?

So on the youth let's look at the cold hard facts:

Tom Davies
- played 6/8 games under Unsworth, note that the two games he didn't start he was rested (as he wasn't even on the bench) and came straight back into the starting line up within 3 days. His minutes per game was: 61.75
- Under Allardyce, he's made 18 appearances, from 23 games, and his minutes per game is: 45.2

Mason Holgate
- Unsworth, played 1 match from 8, minutes per game 11.25
- Allardyce, played 10 from 23, minutes per game 31.8

Beni Baningime
- Unsworth - played 6 from 8, minutes per game 46.75
- Allardyce - played 6 from 23, minutes per game 7.7

Nikola Vlasic
- Unsworth - played 4 from 8, minutes per game 7.8
- Allardyce - played 6 from 23, minutes per game 15.0

Dominic Calvert-Lewin
- Unsworth - played 8 from 8, minutes per game 50.3
- Allardyce - played 19 from 23, minutes per game 43.8

Jonjo Kenny
- Unsworth - played 8 from 8, minutes per game 87.4
- Allardyce - played 13 from 23, minutes per game 48.9

Ademola Lookman
- Unsworth - played 6 from 8, minutes per game 26.8
- Allardyce - played 4 from 13 (only counting until he was transferred), minutes per game 12.2

Surprisingly, Allardyce has given Vlasic more minutes, but Unsworth involved him in more games. Unsworth handed the team over to Allardyce with Holgate in the starting line up, and had he been fit, I believe he would have played more under Unsworth.

To further prove Allardyce's preference for older players, he signed a 26 year old and a 29 year old, so an average age of 27.5.

We played Newcastle and the average age of the starting line up was 29.3. The same side was selected against Swansea and had the same average age. This is in fact one of our oldest ever starting line-ups, at least since people started recording these things.

As for picking Garbutt, and it's great to know you study everything I say so closely, but call me old fashioned, I like to play a left back in the left back role and the only one on the books if Baines was injured was Garbutt. Seeing as we were playing a dreadful team (worst squad in the league propped up by a decent manager) and there was absolutely nothing riding on it, I figure giving Garbutt a game was the best thing to do.

As for turning us into a small club, everything he does and says tells you that. There was no ambition shown by him. When we climbed out of the mire, by beating two promoted sides and a side in the bottom 3, he could have shown some ambition by publicly aiming for 7th. Instead, no it's been all about 40 points. We've a £250m squad and he only wants to talk about 40 points, and we were 10 points clear of the drop. This was turning us back into a small time club. Need I go on about his tactics? His hailing of draws against teams we should be beating, whilst failing to get a shot on target?

Hopefully, you can let things lie now mate. If not, you can argue with yourself. And for what, you don't even like Allardyce! You just seem determined to try to discredit me.

Funnily enough, I got stick on here recently for praising Sam for buying Tosun & Walcott. Two good forwards that the 'recruitment team' couldnt find last summer. Happy to give him credit for both of those

Similarly with Keane. I've been called deluded for liking him as a player. I think he's suffered from a big money move to Koeman's mess. Easy to forget how these things can affect players. Money doesn't stop it. He's benefiting from playing regularly with Jagielka.

I acknowledge the recent improvement in Schneiderlin but it doesn't excite me.

I've got no problem with Allardyce. If he stays, we'll finish 7th/8th. I'd be confident he'll buy well in the summer. I just don't think he'll ever entertain us, or take us to a higher level. That's it.

And usually I try to be balanced, so apologies for straying off the path.

The odd entertainer that we've managed to accommodate such as Deulofeu, Bolasie and occasionally Barkley (who?) have been extravagant and inconsistent showponies and can cop for some awful stick from the crowd. Are we sure what we actually want?

It's a fear-driven, results-oriented business nowadays and it isn't just Evertonians who are getting tired of the fare on offer. You certainly wouldn't have enjoyed what the home fans had to endure at Huddersfield yesterday!

Colin #138, something very inconsistent about you not even checking the score yesterday and yet you're one of the most frequent posters on here.

I inherited a shambles. An unbalanced, unfit squad lacking in coherence and confidence. David had clearly had enough, so I had a word with the players before West Ham and well, look how they responded. 4-0. Great for me. And David.

Straightaway, I got the defence organised. Clean sheets. Worked a treat. Then went to Anfield, where you used to get stuffed. Pinched a draw and really upset that Soft German to boot. Though that would sort me out with the fans.

I inherited a side with only one rookie centre forward, so as he got tired, I set up the team to be tight and nick one. David made his name doing that here, so I thought everyone would like it.

We had a couple of results go against us so when January came, I got two good forward players quickly. How did Ronald get on with that, eh?

You brought me in to keep the club up and here we are at 8th, after inheriting a mess of a squad with no confidence. Imagine what I could do with a proper transfer window, a preseason and full season in charge?

It's your decision Farhad. The stability of yours truly, or another gamble with a Johnny Foreigner who doesn't know the PL like I do.
Go on, Farhad, you know it makes sense.

I don't want Allardyce here. I don't think he'll take us forward. He'll keep us 7th/8th. Thats not going forward for me.

I am prepared to acknowledge the few good things he's done.

I don't live in the binary world where everything has to be brilliant or shit. Sorry.

Got it?

Let's face it, we have 3 ex-managers in charge in big Sam, Little Sam and Mr Shakespeare and this is the best they can do! That is poor.

Let's hope Mr Moshiri has learnt from his mistakes because it doesn't boil down to how well big Sam has performed it is whether his replacement is available. If he is then why stall the project, why not stir the fans with an inspirational decision and prove that the future is bright.

Why would anyone think of starting to support Everton with big Sam involved?! Sam has done his job, fair dos, now let's move on and give the fans an opportunity to wholeheartedly support again.

His football is 20 years behind the times. Funny that you'd know that when you don't bother to check your phone etc to see how we've got on or don't bother going the game, isn't it? Yet you have the gall to slag him off.

I'm no great fan of the man myself but at least I and 40,000 more can honestly give an opinion of the man and his brand of football... Which, by the way, is no better nor worse than it was under Moyes, Koeman or, to a lesser extent, Unsworth.

I want a young forward-thinking manager. Unfortunately, they're thin on the ground as regards getting us higher up the league and delivering silverware. Allardyce was left a shitstorm and to me has delivered. Last Autumn, I was shitting myself at the prospect of where we would be come now...

Allardyce had a favourable run of fixtures that helped, I'll give him that... but he's steadied the ship and for that alone he deserves credit. So please cut him some slack.

As one poster earlier put it... No manager out there could get this squad any higher. That said, it's not great to watch but the reason a lot of us are moaning is because we are casting envious eyes across the park. If they were their normal average selves, half of us wouldn't bat an eyelid. As it is, they've got a manager who has them believing... Sad but true. Oh, and they really aren't that good.

For many years I've refused to believe that we are a small club, but the feeling I get now is that we well and truly are. We have a small club mentality. We are stuck and completely rudderless. We have not beaten Liverpool at Anfield this century. That is truly appalling. Also, our record away to Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal in the last 20 years is embarrassing.

We have a controlling structure who now see fit to buy the most expensive players on the market that the Top 6 clubs don't want. I don't want to even comment on Allardyce.

There are fans with season tickets who are not even attending the games.

And of course the worst thing is, Liverpool are going to win the champions league playing some of the most thrilling football seen in Europe for years.

Why do they get it right every time? Whenever they have to take a backwards step, they then take two forward. They lose Owen, a couple of years later they bring in Torres, he goes for a record fee and they find Suarez, out he goes and Coutinho emerges as world class, Coutinho out and then a player who cost less than Gylfi Sigurdsson goes on to have one of the best debut seasons in this country of all time.

We spent 10 years standing still, laughing at the clubs with high manager turnover. Now it's our turn to make the mistakes, as we thrash around from one knee-jerk decision to another. Will we learn quickly?

None of that really necessitates the attractive football you are espousing. It would be a lovely icing on the cake, but as a match going fully paid up spectator, I believe, attractiveness aside, that is the bare minimum I should expect at home. Whoever the manager is.

The people at the top have shown an inability to learn. So unless there is some major shift around, I cannot see it. Moshiri appears to have plenty of money but little clue on how to translate that into success. It's a bit like Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough, but at least their fans got to see a couple of world class players along their miserable journey.

Not obsessed with you or any particular poster at all, ole son. I just respond to particular posts if they move me to do so and if I have the time, which for me is principally at weekends.

Some of your posts I enjoy and agree with, others I don't. It's the nature of the beast of posting on a public forum.

Quite amusing you interpret this as 'pointless point scoring' when you could certainly be accused of the same charge with your own constant persecution of Sam Allardyce, often on totally fabricated grounds.

There is clear evidence of this in your latest post when you re-posted the breakdown of his former clubs (not all of them...) and continue to pedal the myth that the primary cause of those club's eventual relegation was the disarray each were left in following Sam Allardyce's tenure as manager.

To your credit, I see progress in your position that you now acknowledge that such data represent facts (as I stated), but how we interpret them is opinion (again, as I stated). This is quite a sea-change for you Steve, because until now, you tried to pass off your opinion as indisputable fact and you got tetchy with anyone who challenged you on that view (and there were quite a number who did).

Not interested in the cost of your season ticket, but the justification you offer now rather begs the question why did you grandstand on TW as you did about never attending another Everton game whilst SA was manager, when evidently it was never your intention to do so? You get no pass from me from spouting empty rhetoric.

As for your take on the youth, your dilligent data gathering is ultimately an exercise in futility. Why? Because of the different circumstances at different times of the season that inflates or deflates the numbers you present (namely, player availability). A minutes-per-game ratio cannot and does not tell the full story.

Your own figures show that Allardyce has continued to play young players, even when every last one of them - and I do mean EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM - has been scathingly dismissed by many a poster on TW and live at the match, as being 'Championship level at best, never going to be a PL player.'

Just as well Sam doesn't pay any heed to the collective wisdom on TW then, eh...?

I take a more positive view of our youth players and throughout the season have defended them, saying it is the senior players, not the junior players, who have been more wanting.

Tellingly, you avoid answering the previous challenges I put to you (and this post makes it the third time of asking), namely, if fit and available, do you pick:

* Coleman or Kenny?
* Tosun, Niasse or DLC?
* Bolasie, Vlasic or Lookman? (This one is a conundrum because none have done enough when played to convince any of our managers this season that they were 'undroppable').

I also advised you to check the claim you made that Allardyce prefers the (aged) Schneiderlin to the (youthful) Davies. In 2018 alone, Allardyce selected Davies in the starting XI ahead of the benched (or completely dropped) Schneiderlin in the following games: v Leicester H, Palace H, Watford A, Burnley A, Brighton H, Stoke A.

Allardyce also prefered to pair Tom with Schneiderlin, rather than Gana, in the PL Home game with Liverpool. That equates to 7 out of the last 12 games, Allardyce selected Davies ahead of Schneiderlin (6 times!) and Gana. So that makes nonsense of another of your claims. And this is a 19-year-old who I think it is fair to say has not hit the same levels or consistency he displayed in his first breakthrough season.

As for your claim of 'further proof' of Allardyce's preference for older players because of the 'senior' ages of Tosun and Walcott who he signed in January, that smacks of desperation on your part, Steve.

Because of the woeful summer recruitment (NOT on Sam's watch), reinforcement in the attacking areas was sorely needed in January. The fact that the 2 players he signed are our leading goal scorers since then rather suggests he did good by recruiting them. Or do you wish to dispute they are neither an improvement on what we already had at the club and their presence is denying a place to youth players, ready to play, that we should be developing...?

Your justification for naming Garbutt for your starting XI yesterday is the simple thinking of a Football Manager sofa-gamer, completely ignoring the data that actually counts.

By continuing to make Allardyce uniquely and exclusively responsible for 'turning us into a small club' you again choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence that undermines your argument.

To copy-paste the words of Keith Harrison in this thread, "Sam Allardyce is not the root cause of our malaise, he is purely a symptom of it" - something you (and others) seem incapable of acknowledging.

And one final thing Steve...I am not going out of my way to 'discredit' you as you claim. I am simply offering an alternative view to your own.

It is allowed and indeed, should be welcomed. Our opinions and theories are made stronger if we are challenged and able to counter those challenges.

You appear at times to believe your opinion is sacrosanct and should be exempt from such challenge.

Ain't ever gonna happen on TW, fellah.

Couldn't agree with you more. A fair argument, with clarity as to why the fans won't be won over by his statistics. There are another set of statistics that could be used too. Those are all about possession, shots on goal, goals scored etc. They do not make good reading since Allardyce's arrival.

They are the reason the majority of fans cannot see how he could take the club in the direction we would like to see, which is not just based on winning, but looking good while you're doing it!

And, as you rightly say, has done himself no favours in the way he has dismissed the fans.

He clearly doesn't understand that the fans (especially those that are regular attendees at games) are the heart and soul of the club. But then, he sold his soul to the devil long ago, so little wonder he doesn't understand that part of being an Everton Manager.

Don't get me wrong here, as a season ticket holder I do not want to watch the complete rubbish we have had to endure under Sam. However, we must realise and accept the risks that come with change.

The only way the club will move forward is if the team and manager has the fans support. We don't have to like the manager to support him and his team. It is absolutely crucial that we provide the support needed, Goodison has become a morgue, it used to be one of the most feared Premier league venues - ask Wenger.

The reports in The Mirror today are encouraging (BPB leaving in August, Sam leaving in May and Ronney to be offloaded) but only if we have a solid plan lined up and we give that plan our full support. Should it turn out that Sam is with us for another season then that same support should be given to him also.

It's the teams' job to excite the crowd, who in turn will increasingly support the players vocally.

Chicken and egg? Not really, the onus is on those who we have paid to entertain us, to entertain us!

We need a coach who will be given time and who will give players time. Could you concede that Allardyce has had the chance to do that, to take a chance and give a go to the fringe players rather than labouring with players who are over the hill.

I can see why he doesn't, but the reasons he doesn't are what makes him a journeyman. The desire to ditch his Morris Marina for a Jaguar. The comfort zone. He does what he does and has not a shred of ambition to do better because he fears the exposure of his inadequacy. He has been offered the chance of a lifetime but he is too set in his ways to grasp it. I would guess he has never had an original thought in his life.

We need to take a chance on a man who will take a chance. I fear that Moshiri will not throw the dice, we are stuck with dull, unambitious Sam.

They are not mutually exclusive, Allardyce seems to think they are, sorry Sam if you cannot balance and manage both then by definition you are not good enough. They must be achieve simultaneously not in a stilted, staid progression.

The modern fan from needs energy, excitement and flair to get off their seat, in turn generating atmosphere and anticipation for the next game. Without it the product today is sterile.

Liverpool sadly have that recipe in a nutshell. Enviously so. That is, in part, an added pressure swirling around the football served up to us.

Until we find a coach that can juggle both requirements we will go through appointments quickly and expensively.

So be it.

The era of patience, building etc. is over, it has been for some time. As is the appointment of a manager. Everton need a coach not a autocrat who rules with an iron fist, fundamentally it squashes creativity a player's ability to grow.

Moyes, Koeman & Allardyce all autocrats, no flexibility or innovation.

Martinez, the only manager to encourage and attempt to get players to flourish experiment and show flair, despite the flaws.

I believe however fanciful it sounds the premier league needs to take note of the product it's created. If it is to remain relevant the ‘have nots' needs to entertain or interest will wane. Or inevitably the top six will piss off, yet that to me are turkeys voting for xmas.

Those six teams cannot be successful together in that kind of super league, eventually they will have enough and come crawling back. Perhaps, sure totally supposition but I think it's a possibility.

But ultimately it starts with removing Allardyce.

UTFT!

Seems like some are beginning to swallow the nonsense this guy is spouting... takes all sorts, I guess.

But, after witnessing the most brain-numbing, serve-serving, shithousery I've ever seen, these "balanced" views are beginning to sound like a witness account given to the bizzies by a crack addict.

I said it on another thread I think, but it must have been funny listening to Allardyce, criticizing the squad "HE INHERITED" to Moshiri, whilst Steve Walsh, sat in the corner saying it was all down to Ronald!

Bit of good news regarding the new stadium, because I was overhearing two fellas talking, and when I quizzed them, (one of them is a mate, and the other fella works in the yard) it appears that Everton, have bought "TERRY'S TIMBER" lock, stock and barrel.

What's that I asked, and my mate was a bit quiet because I've been winding him up, and arguing about our new stadium for ages now. He's a bit like Tony Marsh, and keeps saying its got no chance, so when his mate said Everton, have bought the lot, he was already changing his tack, onto Joe Anderson.

Keith at #186 hits the nail on the head when he posted why Goodison is like a morgue. Not gonna change while this manager remains. Not sure which part of this some of our fans don't get.

The man in the Mirror said it all for us over the weekend although to outsiders we must appear greedy sods for whom points alone are not enough.

Soon we shall discover if points alone are enough for Moneybags Moshiri.

The irony with all of the bickering is that everyone seems to be in agreement that Sam isn't the man to take us forward and should leave in the summer.
So instead there's disagreements regarding whether he deserves any credit for anything, and whether he's deserving of all of the personal abuse or not.

Hopefully Moshiri will make the right choice and everyone can begin bickering about the new manager - whoever that may be.

Finally I don't understand the calls for Wenger. Since Allardyce took over Everton have a better record than Arsenal, despite lesser players. In the last two seasons he hasn't even been able to challenge for the top four despite Arsenal's huge spending power. How do we expect him to fare better at Everton with less than half the salary budget?

Allardyce has made 2 good signings and maybe he could be trusted to make more, if he stays that is. It's possible Moshiri may want to keep him for the extra season just to gain some stability, no matter how unpopular that may be.

It s absolutely true that without investment in top quality players we will still have no chance of consistent improvement under a young progressive manager.

Look at Chelsea's situation with Hazard, Willian, Morata, Kante etc .they cannot get into the top 4.

It highlights the size of the task for a new manager, and the size of the investment in quality recruitment that is needed.

Saying that I am not bothered about things changing overnight. Solid incremental progress will make me happy. I would rather see one or two top quality players recruited than a scattergun approach .

We're celebrating beating an awful Huddersfield as if we'd got into the top 6! Everton have managed to achieve 8th position in the league through sheer luck in one of the worst leagues in years. We've achieved a Leicester in achieving 8th and how there are 12 teams worse than us is certainly beyond me.

Even a couple of seasons ago we could match and beat any other team in the league if we bothered to tern up. Now, the team has been directed so they don't bother against the top 6 teams. We'll NEVER progress beyond 8th if the manager thinks like that.

We're talking about Allardyce having done a good job in keeping us up and achieving 8th yet the team hasn't done anything more than it has since the start of the season. Ok, the defence seems a bit more solid but that's as much to do with injured players coming back as it is the manager.

If Allardyce is still manager next season then i'll most likely become a passenger fan until he's gone.

Nothing lucky about wherever we finish. We've been poor, and as I've said all season, there's plenty teams worse.

The big issue this season is the missed opportunity. With better recruitment and better coaching, 6th place and some forward momentum was there for the taking.

We've taken a sideways step. We can go forward by sorting out the management of the club and by bringing in a decent first team coach.

I do not want Sam as manager next season. Granted, I never wanted him in the first place. Firmly in the Unsi camp.

This might sound like I am contradicting myself but what Everton need right now is a bit of stability and to begin rebuilding. Stability from sacking current manager? Hear me out;

That stability will not come from having a manager for only another 12 months and I don't think Sam is the man long term. We need to start rebuilding and preparing a more balanced squad. Koemans transfer dealings were down right unforgiveable and that in itself should have been enough to get him and Walsh the heave-ho . He clearly had no plan or foresight. This season in the PL has been one which has the pacey inside forwards/wingers and the high press in vogue. Yet somehow unforgivably we ended up starting it with 4 plodding number 10s.

If Sam stays, whoever comes in for the following season will have new ideas, tactics, plans etc and have to start the whole rebuilding phase all over again.
Does anyone feel Sams tactics are good enough for where we want to go? If not then, even if he did leave us with a team capable of 6th, a new manager would still need to rebuild to play a style capable of higher. At least Martinez failed by trying to play a style capable of pushing us higher. If you don't try then you're never going to get there.

Next problem is what assurances can he give to any players looking to sign for us in the summer? Surely they all know he is under pressure and could be gone before October if we start the season poorly.
What player will risk the move knowing that there could be a change in personnel mid-season and that the new manager might not fancy him?

The only benefit I can see of Sam staying is lowering the fans expectation. Let him be the man to weed out all the dead wood and trim the squad. I wouldn't be giving him a warchest to invest, just a directive to get rid of those not up to it. Next season would almost certainly be a write off already as we would be preparing the club by getting it in a better position for someone new to come in with their own ideas and have a solid foundation to build on. Much like Martinez had in his first season.

Finally, I feel we have missed a huge opportunity in the last few years. We have lost our identity at a time that it is becoming popular. High press, high energy, 451/433.. its almost a David Moyes Everton era dream, minus the fact he couldn't get the attacking side of it correct.

Thomas #208, no apologies necessary. I find you clear and sensible. I disagree with you on Rhino -- love his coaching but the last thing the club needs is a manager with no managerial experience -- and I don't think a healthy Sigurdsson is anything resembling a plodder. But I can't dispute anything else, and you're the first to make the excellent point about our missed opportunity for true prominence. That's true in international marketing (especially here in the Colonies) as well as on-field performance.

"he has improved fitness and recovery time of the injured players"

Thank you for that information. I had no idea the man was also a top sports physician and a cutting-edge physical trainer. Or did he merely heal them with a touch?

And I'm afraid the idea that this particular manager could "improve the speed and accuracy of passing" is roughly on a par with his chances of turning the Mersey into a fine cabernet sauvignon.

Mike, I usually enjoy your posts but don't think we will ever agree on this one. I suppose time will tell and I know that I'm in a minority in thinking SA has earned a bit more opportunity to show what he can do.

I would be more open to the prospect of Allardyce remaining her for the next season if I'd seen anything at all that indicated there was anything more to him footballwise than we've seen hitherto. However, my view is that he's done what you would expect him to & no more. Imo, he has blown his opportunity to show that he has more to offer & I suspect that's because he's not got anymore there. This would appear to be confirmed by his own post match comments this weekend.

No doubt that an exciting brand of football would improve the atmosphere and we are not going to get that with Sam, I just think we fans can do more at times to lift team spirits.

Andy, I agree that should be the case and my cat and dog combined could get us into Europe but my main concern is whether or not the board can get it right this time. I was very much in favour of Koeman and saw him as someone who would take us places. So I don't envy Mr Moshiri in making the decision, I would worry if it was Marco Silva based upon the way Watford capitulated at Goodison (albeit a little unfortunately) and then against Chelsea when they were well on top. I don't think it is an easy job for anyone.

Kenwright and latterly Moshiri need to take the lions share of the blame for lazy uneducated appointments that have left us in this trough now. I highly doubt that we will get a thoroughbred manager, whatever that is, so I expect a young hungry manager who has an actual plan of style, how we will defend as a team and how he has a plan for where the players will play. I also expect a manager who will instil a sense of pride in the team and will fight to the final whistle every game. Surely that's not too much to ask is it? Oh yeah, a manager who doesn't surrender games that he considers unwinnable would be nice too... although is that just being a bit picky?

That Chelsea cup match, the Semi v City and the Arsenal home last season were all tremendous. Any co-incidence they were all evening games?

Still the players job to rouse us first for me mate.

Some people are saying that keeping Sam is the safe option and a new manager is a risk. What's life without a risk? No risk, no reward.

I am not advocating keeping Sam but wary of the risk that a new manager brings and don't want to see a repeat of the mess we were in last Autumn repeating itself. I just want to see us think it through properly and make changes elsewhere that I think would give the new man a better chance of success.

Clearly we didn't purchase well under the Koeman / Walsh era which also clearly unbalanced the team and I also think getting Rooney was a massive mistake as he was long past his best. I do wonder what was in his contract to allow him so much game time. Have to say the same about Williams but gladly that's been sorted. I do believe that Sam has brought that stability and improvement in some of the players.

I also believe he has brought in what are arguably our best 2 signings in the last 18 months aside from Pickford. I don't think we are going to go from what we were like under Koeman to becoming a team challenging the top four and playing football with any kind of panache after one transfer window. I do believe we need rid of some players in order to bring in more. Sam says 10 or 12 to go and only bring in players who are going to improve the team.

So let's assume Moshiri is patient with Sam (which actually I wouldn't be against) and allows him to see out his contract which allows him to build the team he wants.

Which players would you jettison and which areas would you recruit the best players that will improve the team.

What he received was "clarity" which, in this context, means, "Thank you, here's a load of dosh, don't rock the boat over the next couple on months while we sign X and then *** off in the summer".

At least I bloody hope so.

Yes, that's what I read between the lines too. But thought maybe it was more wishful thinking on my part. Allardyce seemed to chose his words carefully (a rarity in itself), when speaking about next season and in particular his meeting with Moshiri.

He has not said, 'I have been planning for next season,' He seemed to say, 'We spoke about plans for next season.' Which for me is a little non-committal.

I'm sure – given his bullish nature -– that he would have been blowing his trumpet as often as he can about HIS plans for Everton next season. Instead, his is hell-bent on telling everyone how many points he has accrued. Seems defensive to me. Ohhh I so hope we are right Chris, and it's not just wishful thinking by us both???

Depressed supporters

Manchester City fans are revelling in Premier League title glory, Wolves supporters are relishing a return to the top flight and the Accrington Stanley faithful are in raptures after watching their team secure a place in the third tier for the first time.

Following these clubs is an absolute joy at the minute, so perhaps their supporters should spare a thought for the fans whose teams have brought them nothing but misery this season…

10. Everton

Everton fans are well aware that they haven't snagged silverware in more than two decades. So, when Iranian businessman Farhad Moshiri purchased a majority stake in the club in 2016, nobody could blame them for feeling a collective pang of optimism. Finally, the blue half of Merseyside was equipped with the resources to compete with big-spending neighbours Liverpool.

Fast-forward two years and it's all gone horribly wrong. Ronald Koeman paid the price for poor recruitment with his sacking in October 2017, a team largely comprised of failed signings is chasing shadows across the Goodison pitch, and a weather-beaten Sam Allardyce sits on the throne of an empire in turmoil.

'Whether the criticism is fair or not is something you can't let affect you. It's an entertainment game, you're trying to capture hearts and minds, and certainly I think, particularly from a home point of view, we've achieved that, not just with the results but the way we've played and the way we've beaten teams.

'We've obviously got room for improvement and hopefully that will be a big performance tomorrow and another win.'

THIS GUY IS IN A WORLD OF HIS OWN!