Dibling hints at frustrations he has endured by being overlooked

I'm worried we'll lose him for a loss.

Or are you not allowed to because of your status or contract? Modern football, eh.

Minutes are earned, son. Not granted. Not in this club. Earn them. Get 'er done.

Let's get a pre-season done and I think we will see we have three players on our hands, Dibling, Iroegbunam and Rohl. They're all young and only going to get better with patience.

The winner was created by him cutting in at an angle to the top of the box for a nice layoff to Charles.

Fellows could have sat on the bench just as good as Dibling and only cost £12M.

You mean the Tom Fellows who used to play for WBA who was sold to Southampton last summer (presumably to replace Dibling)?

In 32 appearances so far this season has scored exactly no goals.

For instance, I don't understand why Armstrong was not sent back to Preston North End after our midfield crisis had lifted - Alcaraz, Dewsbury-Hall were recovering from their injuries, Ndiaye and Gana were shortly to return from Afcon.

It was clear that after our senior players returned, Armstrong would have a limited role at Everton this season. His development would have greatly benefited from being part of the PNE team pushing for promotion. Similarly, Aznou and Dibling should have been sent out on loan, to get them playing competitive minutes.

I am convinced that Moyes is not good at managing a large squad. He will play his favourites until they break down, and then, when his hand is forced, he will bring in players who are short on match fitness and when they inevitably perform at a lower level than his favourites, he can turn around and say, “See, I told you they are not good enough, I need better players."

Well, I got news for you, Mr Moyes, we have the players in the club right now, you are just not very good at utilising them and that is why you will always be a ‘best of the rest' manager.

Yes, Moyes told him to pull his finger out, but for what reason? None of us have any idea. Is it work rate, defensive duties etc?

At least the lad seems to want to knuckle down and get himself in contention for a first team spot, judging by his comments.

Maybe a full pre season will help him show us his true potential? We can only hope.

I think he's got tremendous ability, and needs to be loved a little bit similar to Anders Limpar and his initial relationship with Joe Royle.

But Moyes doesn't really seem to be like that, in all his years with us I'm struggling to think of him bringing through a precocious youngster, sticking with him and truly giving him time to develop. Obviously Rooney is the exception, he had to play.

Others like Cahill and Arteta were far more aggressive in their play and (probably) character. Osman was loaned out before he finally got a run in the team.

Pienaar perhaps? But he was older and had quite some experience in other Leagues.

The difference is, none of those players cost anything like the money Dibling did, and football has changed to the point where 21 Yr olds are expected to have England caps by now. They develop and play far younger than they used to.

I don't see any reason why Dibling or Rohl can be trusted to play the full game (or near enough) away at Forest or Villa, then not a kick a ball for months at a time.

We were 2 up against Burnley after 60 minutes, one of the worst teams we've played this season, yet we didn't make any subs until the 82nd minute! Surely that was an opportunity to give certain players 20 minutes on the pitch?

Moyes has done a great job since he returned, nobody can question that, but this refusal to rotate is really a weakness of his, imo, and could come back to really bite us.

I bug bear of mine is when we put in a poor performance, it's the young players (who are still learning the game) who get subbed off or dropped altogether, yet the experienced players are given a pass and kept on the pitch or in the team the following week.

Dibling was poor against Palace and Sunderland, yes, but the whole bloody team was poor yet only he was subbed off at half time (Palace game). Its those players who need protecting and encouraging, and the older players who need a bollocking for not performing anywhere near the levels we expect from someone at their age/experience.

Hopefully a full pre season and extra fixtures next season (Europe?) will give these 'kids' a better chance of proving themselves.

Might seem strange to say that as any other manager who came in and took us to the brink of Europe would rightly be lauded. But Dibling is proof that Moyes hasn't changed and ultimately why the team will run out of steam at the end of the season.

When you are lacking players or need to try something different or just want to surprise your opponents, using the young players gives you those options. Moyes has never been brave enough to do that.

Some players don't train well, but deliver on the pitch (When Gana is clearly exhausted you still play him?). Those are the players that change games, Fergie understood it but his best mate doesn't.

That's one of the things that separate great managers from good ones. Must be soul-destroying for skillful players with ambition.

Will these be the same people that said Onana would come back to haunt us?

Moyes's system works, as we all know; but as a player,you have to fit into it. Perhaps Dibling hasn't picked that up yet, or Moyes isn't going to risk getting points on the board finding out.

He played up front for Southampton, I wonder how he'd get on centrally?

He could be another Onana, or he could be another Lookman, or it’s possible he might even dip and go completely backwards if he doesn’t start training better.

Professional football is such a very hard sport, imo, because it’s not what you do when you have got the ball, but it’s what you do when you haven’t got the ball, that is uppermost in a lot of managers thoughts.

Dibling, has looked both lost and disheartened, except for the game at Forest, when he played in front of a natural right back, but Nathan Patterson is another player who simply doesn’t get played unless the team are down to the bare bones, and even though I don’t think the team has lost with him in the starting eleven, he his another player who is not deemed good enough or trusted, once the manager has got other players back fit.

Moyes, is doing a good job, but when I hear people say Moyes’s system works, I look at his record of longevity and think to myself…. It depends on exactly what you want.

Whenever I have watched Dibling play, my own view is that he definitely looks a lot more suited to playing inside James, especially in our current system.

One thing though, Moyes doesn't like playing young players if he has a choice between youth and experience.

If you were a young, potentially good player coming through, would you sign for him?

Tyler is destined to play centrally according to Russell Martin, who couldn't speak highly enough of him. I think he's definitely more of a 10 than a winger.

I fully understand Moyes's point of view when it comes to training standards, results etc, I'm just scared we could sell him for a small fee then see him develop under a manager like Ariola or whoever and end up being sold for mega money.

I always remembered Tony Cottee saying in his book that Howard Kendall was the best manager you could play under... "if you were one of his players". It took a while for Cottee to win him over... but, once he did, he loved playing for Howard.

I think Moyes is very much the same way: once you've got him onside then he'll stick by you no matter what.

How many games has Dibling played?

And how much did he cost?

I think its to easy to say Moyes hasn't played him enough, one of his early starts was against Wolves and he had to be replaced at half time. Now I am sure that's the last thing any manager wants is to have to take off a youngster after 45 minutes. I agree with Tony that Dibbling looks as if he would rather be anywhere than playing for Everton at the moment.

Whether Moyes wanted him or not I am sure he wants to get the best out of him as paying that much and for whatever reason not be playing him doesn't help anyone.

While I have some sympathy for a young player moving to a far bigger club than he was at and the transfer fee paid has put extra pressure on him, he has to get his head round what's expected and start to deliver. I know when he was younger he went to Chelsea which isn't miles away from Southampton but went back to Southampton because he was homesick. But if he is to have a career in football moving to different places and maybe different countries is part and parcel of a professional footballer. I know he played for England U21s last week and even then he wasn't overly impressive according to those who watched the game. Finally I would suggest our fans are willing him to play well, whenever he comes on you can feel the crowd trying to lift him, but its now up to Tyler to knuckle down and show the manager the player we thought we were buying.

I think managers are dammed if the do play younger players, it doesn't work and it affects results, dammed if they don't and not giving them enough minutes.

Buy it's their head on the line if they don't perform and results slip.

I think there's loads of time for this lad, he says in the quote that he needs to be mentally ready, which alludes to him not being mentally ready this season, which for a younger player moving away, I can sympathise with.

Physically I think he can be stronger.

He should be alot more settled next year, and I'm expecting more time and more impact, that right side is crying out for more quality and he should be looking at mcneil and thinking I'm better !

If you are implying that we used the money to the benefit of Everton by bringing in players like Ndiaye and OBrien and therefore a good sale to make then I would agree given our financial predicament.

But if you are trying to imply that he has been a disaster at Villa then I'm not sure Villa fans would agree with you. Villa are a much better team when he's in the side.

Both of the times we dominated against them in midfield this season was due to both Camara and Onana being missing. He was also missing for other games at the start of the season when they were poor. Onana, Camara, Tielemans and McGinn are among the best midfield combinations in the league and are the main area which has them competing with the top sides in the country. When two or more of those players out they are a bog standard side and their results and fall-offs would back that up.

What does come back to haunt us mean? That he is going to be motm every time we play them or score twenty a season from midfield?

Put it this way he would walk straight into our team now alongside Garner and they would compliment each other better than Gana and Jimmy do. I wouldn't say we miss him but I would have him back in a heartbeat.

We are pushing for Europe and are doing 'okay ,thanks very much'. Moyes is not going to change anything at this stage and nor should he.

These are all professional players and managers. Whether you've given it all, whether you're ready or not, insiders know.
Show us whether you have the grit to make it to the top by training well first.

Against Burnley, McNeil was terrific but he was utterly shot by 70 mins when the game was won. 20 mins then for Dibling against a beaten and tiring team could have provided a perfect opportunity.

Not to be. Yes, it's the Moyes way.

Dier is the only real one I can think of who slipped the net.

Can't think of many he never played and came back to haunt us!

Give Dibbling time, he's got plenty.

Coleman, Hibbert and Osman were in their early twenties when they made their debuts

Plenty more room for very necessary improvement.

Can you think of many he should have played but didn't? That went on to have great careers?

Osman 23.

Dibbling is 20. Big difference in the fee of course.

The point was on playing them young not signing them young.

Best value signing of Everton in the Prem era for me Seamus

He was signed when he was 20 in the January.

He played 19 games at 21 with us & Blackpool, and the following season played 40 games and scored 6 goals.

This for a lad that had come through a non traditional route, was a fair transition.

I remember that right back display vs Tottenham.

A significant fee (in the context of our available funds) for a youngster who had, according to those closest, including Saints fans, potential.

A little homework suggested he was shy, introverted, didn't like being away from home, and wasn't classed as the best trainer. Has talent but often doesn't work hard enough defensively.

It seemed odd to bring him into a Moyes squad where hard work and defensive contribution from all is a prerequisite. I hope he works hard and turns this round, but a loan out next season may still be best for all parties.

Osman's debut was 2 weeks before his 23rd birthday, promoted from the youth team.

What he doesn't seem so keen on is his work off the ball, tracking back, covering the opposition player, blocking, steering them off course or even getting in a tackle. And whatever of a thousand other defensive duties he may be expected to perform for the side. That just isn't his bag.

And why should it be? Why should he have to expend undesired effort on running around trying to stop the other side from playing, when his whole being is built for getting forward with the ball at his feet?

Well, we know exactly why, don't we? Because that's what David Moyes wants. He wants his players above all to do his bidding, "follow instructions", be an intrinsic team player, rather than someone blessed with spirit and flair for positive creativity with the ball at his feet. It's Duncan Mackenzie all over again... If ya know yer 'istory...

So bottom line is, at the core, he's obviously not a Moyes player. He probably doesn't want to be that type of Moyes player because it is anathema to him. And yet, his only hope of getting minutes is that he must become a Moyes player, or it's just not going to happen.

What an astounding and unbelievably profligate, foolhardy and arrogant waste of talent by our Supreme Leader, whose judgment must never be questioned.

Another case of method geared to mature and largely developed players? This will make our transfer business more difficult.

Had Moyes found time and patience for one of Aznou, Dibling or Alcaraz, perhaps it could be seen as a steady hand sternly applying standards to young players learning how to play within a system.

This looks like a mismatch between Moyes' stewardship and the club's desperate need to develop youth. We can't continually find Dewsbury-Hall and Garner type players to support Grealish-type loan arrangements. We will have the likes of the shitey six dropping in and feigning interest as a cost-increasing strategy deployed against us. It is a cheap way to reduce the number of players we can afford and attract.

Whether your gift is for scoring goals, getting forward with the ball at your feet, spraying passes around or whatever you're good at, you're expected to put in your all on the tasks you don't prefer. And with Moyes, if you don't, you don't play.

Annika #11, of course I do. The lad wants to play, and if he'd shown Moyes what he wants to see, he'd be playing. And "pull your finger out" is pretty darned forthcoming, isn't it? How much clearer could he be?

Lee #12, I've seen the comparison to Lookman before, but I don't think it's quite valid. Lookman failed at three other clubs after we gave up on him. It took until he was 25 for him to "get his finger out" and mature into a top pro and a fine international. But would we, could we have waited three or four more years for him to grow up? I don't think so.

Let's just hope it doesn't take Dibling that long.

He'd be given a lot more faith and time on the pitch to affect the game going forward if he showed some desire to work for the team.

Ndiaye works his socks off on the other side, why should this kid think he can just stroll through games?

The work is the minimum requirement, then you can do the fancy stuff!

He's got ability, but he's shown it in a Southampton team that were relegated, and in the Championship. You wonder why they got relegated?

We recall James, and how Doucoure was specially detailed to do the running for him, but even then, it left us wide open, even with having his brilliance compensating at the other end.

Dibling is a wonderful talent, I hope he can find the right balance. But in the time I've seen him, he does look quite heavy legged, as though he's already tired and on the back foot. It feels like he just need to get fitter.

Let's hope he has a good summer and comes back with that extra half a yard.

Obviously Garner is our leading tackler, but do you know who is #2?

That's right, our best attacking player, Ndiaye. 57 tackles in just 25 league matches.

Considering Dibling is trying to earn minutes deputizing for Ndiaye, who could be a better example for him?

Not sure how much of that is down to EFC.

Hope you're doing well, and I fully agree about Lookman -- there's no way we could have developed him properly during our turbulent spell.

He was just the first example that popped into my head.

He's clearly good enough to play at or near this level. We've evidently overpaid. These things happen.

Premier League Stats
Minutes played 350
Goals 0
Assists 0
xG 0.2
xGA 0.16
Shots 4
Crosses 7 (completed 14%) or 1
Touches in the opposition box 11
Successful dribbles 13
Passes 350
Tackles 7
Duels won 33 (42% win ratio)
Fouls 11
Yellow cards 2

My take on it, as without the defensive work rate, the kid is a complete passenger. His stats show low level of attacking output.

The comparison to Mackenzie would be valid if he was ripping it up, and just being lazy. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

No goal involvements, and xG that suggests he's nowhere near. Just 11 touches in the box, and one successful cross.

I am struggling to remember a better game than Forest away. He worked hard, his quality was a bit better, but it was still behind senior players in my opinion.

Has McNeil not shown the benefit of having a player that can put in shift in. Can turnover possession, and can score/assist, decent set pieces, & freeing up Ndiaye or Dewsbury-Hall to be less rigid.

My question is would you start Dibling against Brentford? With the game level in the derby and 20 minutes to go, is he someone you turn around and bring on as your first change?

Do you see him being a game-changer vs Man City.

I honestly don't. So if the answer isn't yes, how can you blame the manager?

Steven took some stick too at what was a difficult time for the Blues. He was out the team for at least three months before coming back and when he came back in he took his chance and the rest is history.

I saw Dibling at Southampton, he is a talent and like Steven I'm sure he will come good, if not this season, definitely next.

Them stats are surprising, I knew Ndiaye got through some work, but that's an example Dibling should look at.

I'm not writing the lad off, there's loads of time for him.
You can improve, not all world class players are world class at 20.

Garner is a great example, Arteta matured late,
Harry Kane took a while, and loads of loans. We just have to be patient, hope he takes the advice and kicks on.

Dibling hasn't done anything of note to suggest he's worth a place in the starting eleven and even for the people who want to blame Moyes, I don't think they have really got much of an argument because Tyler hasn't shown the necessary desire or aggression when he's been given a chance.

I never watched the Sunderland game but I heard that Aznou looked like he really wanted to get involved when he was given his chance but unfortunately for Dibling (even though you can maybe put up a little bit of a case for him because he has mostly played in front of a stay-at-home fullback) this just hasn't been the case so far in his Everton career.

I hope he can roll up his sleeves and work harder because, if he does, then I'm sure he could become a great player for Everton in the future, but without that necessary hard work, I doubt he's going to go very far.

Championship player and, unfortunately for Everton, a complete waste of money.

He never played centrally much for either club.

First time I watched Trevor Steven play was against them, he played centre-mid and ran the game. I think he was 18.

Not many you would swap him for playing wide right, mate

But predominantly he played wide right, where he was most effective, cos that was his position.

And as Trevor was pretty much an ever-present, he must have played at least 10 games in the middle.

10 games central

Great player

Imagine taking all that talent up to play in the Scottish league at the peak of his powers.

Strange decision.

I can't remember for how long but I can remember watching us lose against West Ham, and thinking to myself that although he was neat and tidy. He didn't have the drive or the aggression of the man who had just left us, Steve McMahon.

It turned out great in the end Steven was a fantastic footballer, but then again, so were the other three players who played in the Everton midfield during that unbelievable period in the mid-eighties.

How Everton’s Tyler Dibling fared for England Under-21s vs Moldova

Steven, only scored two goals during that season. One in the league and one in the League Cup, in a 2-2 draw with Chesterfield, although that was enough to see us through because we had won the first leg away from home 1-0.

I didn't realise Steven was only 19 years of age when he signed in the summer of 1983. I couldn't believe that the attendance for the Oxford replay was given at just over 31,000, and the semi-final against Villa had a little over 40,000 inside Goodison, according to what I've just read.

I can remember being able to breathe against Oxford, but my memory of the Villa game was that it was absolutely heaving…. Very happy memories for those of us who were lucky enough to be there!

It came back on us in the final (handy Hansen) but we forgot about Richardson's when Hansen handled it. Karma is subjective in football.🤨

Nothing unusual, except he was either an Everton apprentice or maybe even a young professional at the time. A great talent, but unfortunately another young kid who ended up destroying his great chance because of a drug that suddenly began to appear all over the north end of our city during the Thatcher era.

Although I agree Thatcher was a twat.

I think he ended up playing Sunday League. There but for the grace of god...

What did Rohl mention?

Having observed all his home appearances, I have come to the conclusion that he should be loaned out next season in the unlikely hope that he may actually make a Premier League grade striker, or better still sold.

Beto is not a world beater but his purple patch last season and his performance v Chelsea confirmed that he is miles better than Barry and at least deserves a place in the squad next season.

That may well be spot on, but you definitely do not know the reasons for sure. Because, unless you were there to witness these training sessions, no one knows the reasons for him not playing for certain.

You may well be right, I agree. But you don't know for certain.

I admire your skepticism as we wrap up a day on which billions of people were immersed in commemorating events they didn't personally see, whether it was the rising of Jesus or the parting of the Red Sea by Moses.

Is football the only profession where 'youths' are expected to be the finished article with nothing more to learn and only need to get on a pitch to show their brilliance?

Now and again, the odd Rooney, Royle or Ronaldo comes along but they are the exception, not the expectation.

My daughter finishes university next month aged 21 and nobody would expect her to immediately be a Herodotus, von Ranke, or even Paul Griffiths. Why do we expect so much more of youth that can kick a football?

When he does, he plays them for one game and then drops them or he plays them out of position before dropping them.

He's shown no real indication that that is his gift... but I have to wonder if that is because it's been beaten out of him in the quest for hard work, the need for him to do the the stuff that he's no good at but must produce, like a performing seal, before he can be allowed to express himself on the pitch... or even if that was permitted in the rigid playbook.

That's what it has looked like when he has been granted these 'opportunities' -- but no doubt under strict instruction to perform in a certain way that does the exact opposite of nurturing whatever talent he may have had when he was scouted. I wouldn't be at all surprised now to find that whatever he had has gone.

Life’s choices, Rohl, was just being very respectful to Everton, very thankful for the chance he has been given and came across as a very humble and decent human being Dale.

One thing I like about those German’s, is how they are always so matter of fact!

That’s definitely the other side of the argument Michael.

Who knows if it happened.

Billy Kenny could have been a top player imo.He must have been a good player, given your post.

Didn't see that much of the other kid. Was he a buddy of yours?

You see certain names and you can already predict what they will say about a player before reading their post.

The idea that, if Dibling trains harder, he will get a game, is like telling Joe Bloggs if he gets a haircut and puts on a nice suit, then he will have a chance with Miss World.

Then there are others who are attempting to preach to fellow Blues that Moyes is brilliant for young players.

Whether a positive, ie, if it gets results, or a negative, ie, that this manager stifles youth, you only need to look at his last line-up. In every position, the manager chose experience... bar right-back. And that is only due to having two players who he deems are currently incapable of competing at this level.

O'Brien who, despite playing superbly at centre-back, has had to watch a player for seven months having his worst season at Everton, who wasn't trusted in his natural position as he's a 'young centre-back' even though he's 24.

Even Branthwaite, with all his experience, came on at left back. Nearly every young player who has gotten a game this season, barring Barry or Iroegbunam, has had to do so out of position.

I find it ironic that many who so fervently support this manager are those that seem to know least about him and his ideals.

The little switch off could be costly.

Moyes, you're right, is happier to play less experienced players out of position. Arteta came over and he played him wide right. Physically, he wasn't up to the middle of the pitch, so he played him wide right to get him up to speed.

I don't think that is the case with Branthwaite. He trusts Jarrad; it was just a case of needs must with Mykolenko being injured or having an indifferent spell.

Armstrong did play central midfield. But Moyes moved him to a more advanced role. The kid is progressive with the ball, and did get caught out of position against Wolves. I'd see any other opportunities this season coming from an advanced position.

Once the kids are trusted, they will be moved to their true position. Each person can see the benefit or disadvantage of taking that approach. Some will say he is holding players back. Others will say leaving stabilisers on will bring you more players that haven't fallen by the wayside.

"I wouldn't be at all surprised now to find that whatever he had has gone."

My Saints supporting mate who has seen Dibling much more than me had this to say. "I didn't see much in him when I saw him play. Just the hype because he was young."

Just trying to recall what games Armstrong played in central midfield?

Spending £100M to buy those young players then not playing them is financial lunacy.

As is extending the contract of a manager known not to trust young players, when your football strategy is to develop and buy young players.

If we wanted to be developing young players, we'd be operating under the Brighton model. Putting up with frustrating performances for half a season as the kids bed in, then watching them fly in the last few games before being picked off in the summer, and the cycle begins again. Works for them, I don't' fancy it.

But you have a point: Do we want Angus picking the recruits, or Moyes? Hopefully Angus gets kicked to the curb.

If that was Moyes, then the mistake is his... but at least he is not compounding it by playing a player who is patently not ready (or not interested?) to play for us.

Is it 4 goals and 2 assists in his career?

In a 4-2-3-1 formation?

That's the only system we play.

What a blinkered comment.

I'd want the best person for the job to do it, Kevin, and neither of us really know which that is.

Picking and executing the right strategy is exactly what we need to get us heading to the top of the table (I'm not settling for ‘seventh-ish').

That was from the Everton homepage. As I say, I thought it was 4-3-3.

Nine-Man Everton Held To Draw By Wolves

Moyes has had a whole career at the top level, choosing footballers... whilst Angus really hasn't.

Who was left and right of him?

I'd wanted to see what 3 progressive midfielders would look like for a while. I thought we could win the midfield battle by having pace, intensity and skill.

What it highlighted to me was the young lads were a bit green, the central defence of Keane and Tarkowski need protection in front of them (without Branthwaite), and McNeil and Grealish looked isolated. Little pace to get away and score on a break.

Within a couple of weeks, McNeil was nearly sold to Palace and George came in. But then Dwight turned it around, and has deserved his spot.

Who played either side of Harrison in a 3?

Did Armstrong not play right of a three in that game, with
Garner central of a three?

Continuing in the same pattern with him next season is unlikely to bring about the improvement we are looking for. Find a club that would encourage him to play to his strengths see where we go from there.

Moyes says he is a quiet lad, perhaps a bit of psychology for the player to be more aggressive and take up the challenge?He will improve, I am sure, and his time will come.

Same can be said with Merlin Rohl; we will have an exceptional player here given time, he is just finding his feet, albeit in the toughest league in the world. He has patience, which is more than be said for some of the posters.

No chance I'm writing off any player after just one year and six matches as there just isn't enough evidence to do such a thing.

Don't know if you really got my post, but I was actually saying what you put across.

Some people expect all players to develop at the same rate, when in reality it's not like that. Your comparison makes perfect sense, you pick up knowledge, skills, traits along through the journey.

He was never a Rooney, Giggs or Owen, or we wouldn't have got him! It doesn't mean he can't go on to become a top level player.

My Garner comparison is what Dibling should be looking at, everyone knew Jimmy had ability, he's just taken time to mature and grow in confidence, I think.

Now, he's playing for England!

If you're getting a player that's the finished article at 19, then you're talking £100M+...

We are not made on conveyor belts, David.

Rohl, hasn’t really been seen since and Armstrong, hasn’t really been played in that position since, but the effort, energy and balance we had that day, definitely hasn’t been forgotten by everyone!

I have high hopes for Armstrong, I think he could develop to be a top player.

This puts into perspective. The captain McAtee, Hutchison, Harvey Elliot have all struggled.

Very few are ripping it up bar Elliot Anderson and Liveramento. Maybe Scott, Hinselwood, and Quansah.

England U21 vs Germany U21; European Under-21 Championship Final -- After Extra Time

8:00 pm, Saturday 28 June 2025.

England U21
1 J Beadle 115th minute
2 V Livramento
5 C Cresswell
4 J Quansah
16 Hinshelwood
19 H Elliott 5th minute '90th minute
8 E Anderson 99th minute
20 A Scott 43rd minute 44th minute
11 O Hutchinson 24th minute 98th minute
10 J McAtee (c) 24th minute 90th minute
18 J Stansfield 62nd minute

Substitutes
3 R Edwards
6 H Hackney
7 T Fellows
9 J Rowe 90th minute 92nd minute
12 B Norton-Cuffy 62nd minute
13 T Simkin
14 A Gray
15 C Egan-Riley 99th minute
17 S Iling-Junior 98th minute 113th minute
21 E Nwaneri 90th minute
22 T Sharman-Lowe
23 T Morton

What do the repetitive minutes figures mean?

If I remember correctly, Southampton were one of the clubs threatening Everton with legal action.

I wonder if this was part of a deal for them to reconsider?

I agree: Moyes trusts Branthwaite and he uses young players out of position to limit mistakes... but the point with Jarrad is that he's your best centre-back and had established himself as first choice long before Moyes arrived.

For example, Saliba didn't get used at full-back and neither did Dias. Moyes didn't chose to switch Keane or Tarkowski to full-back and most managers would never take your best player out of his most effective position for any reason. He is your kingpin regardless of age.

Similarly, Armstrong only played centrally when he had little option and was ousted at the first opportunity.

As I pointed out, I'm not even debating whether this is right or wrong as you no doubt know my views by now... but just highlighting the reality of how he operates and for other posters to imply that Moyes is excellent for developing young players or that, if you train harder, you will play, is just not logical or truthful.

In a separate arguments, you have suggested Moyes can't make the step up due to finance while others argue it's due to the "knives to a gunfight" mentality.

For me, part of the reason is also that we don't reach levels that big teams do because the manager tries to limit their weaknesses as opposed to maximising their strengths.

When top teams match us for spirit and work rate, their level is just better. This is why our best Premier League points tally came under Martinez when we reached a level and quality of performance that maximised our potential and meant that the big boys had also to be at their top level to beat us. They didn't need to just match us or perform to a seven out of ten.

For me, Dibling is someone who is suffering from that lack of freedom, lack of belief in his role, and failure to do what comes more naturally to others. I don't believe it has anything to do with fear or disinterest, as others believe due to appearance. My view is that at times he looks lost and in trying to cover up his weaknesses -- which just exacerbates them and nullifies his undoubted talent.

Essentially, he is being challenged to be good at what he is bad at with the effect being he just looks bad, lax and inept.

I don't think Dwight McNeil turned it round, he has always been an honest professional footballer. I think he got used to being played consistently again instead of being on the outside looking in.

He has his limits, one-footed and not fast, but he has a football brain and uses it very well. I said at the time of his transfer upset that Moyes would need him and play him in the future, which he has.

But Moyes could have used him better, especially subbing him when most of us could see him physically tiring around the 70th minute mark, but Moyes didn't trust his subs until near the very end of the game.

The subs were usually very young.

I watched McNeil, doing similar in one game but, because of his experience, I think he knows the defensive shortcuts a lot better (don't mention the Leeds goal!) and is also more willing to do them.

One of the best bits of quality I've seen from any Everton player came from Dibling at Forest when he didn't even touch the ball (letting it run through his legs because he knew his full-back was advancing). But in every other game he has lacked support because he has played in front of Jake O'Brien.

Whoever plays on our right has got so much work to do, and for a talented kid like Dibling, it's as if he's thinking to himself, "Fuck that for a game of soldiers!"

The kid needs runners and players to play with but, along with our centre-forward, the player on the right is often isolated because Dewsbury-Hall has a natural tendency to go and play on the left of centre and it's rare for Jake O'Brien to advance.

It's clear that the biggest boost Dwight McNeil has had came from the Evertonians, Dave, and he has looked very confident since he got an ovation against Burnley.

I doubt Southampton had a case. They went down with 12 points.

You are saying talent can't trump experience. I don't believe that is true.

Neither of us really knows if Angus has the talent to be better than Moyes... whatever you may claim.