Only one person has suggested a new site Julian. Given who it is, it will not be hard to ignore him.

Some excellent comments and insight there, Julian. I’m somewhat removed from direct line management in Moveup Media, whereas Harry is closer to the beating heart. We have some good people on the Tech Team who have been helping us sort out glitches where and when they can. But, as you so rightly say, “It’s a mismatch between the product that’s been implemented and the way the ToffeeWeb community actually uses the site.” So much of it should be configureable at customer level but we have identified a host of issues that just aren’t. I’ve sent this page as a link to our Arena contact in time for their weekly strategy meeting tomorrow. The loss of our readership is a real concern, obviously.

Oh this is a cracker !! Look at utd, a car crash but because they can throw billions at the squad, still qualify for the champions league. That’s not sporting performance, that’s inequality, that’s preference, that’s privilege, that is a consequence of the rules, designed to ensure that they the “big6” are the ones challenging come the end of the season. It’s an inevitable consequence of the rules since PSR/SCR, there’s only one outcome, every true football fan knows it is stifling competition, ruining the competitive nature of football, giving some teams an advantage. You might as well just let the “big6” have 14 players on the pitch!!

More like a corkscrew their that bent John !

In answer to Greg Mitchell asking me a question near the top of the thread Greg it’s a fishy position to be in because it could be taken that you got this job because you are a donator to the Party and possibly getting a favour in return.

3/3 I wouldn’t rush to build a new site, as some have suggested. That’s a much bigger job than people think. But I would expect the owners to have a proper recovery plan, with priorities, accountability and some realistic timescales. And if Arena can’t meet the essential requirements, then they should be willing to consider alternatives. ToffeeWeb’s value has never just been its technology or articles. It’s the people and the conversations. That’s what needs protecting.

2/3 I also don’t think Arena’s explanation about changes having to be considered across its entire customer base is particularly satisfactory. Some things genuinely require shared product development, but others should simply be configurable at customer level. That’s a fairly basic principle of multi-tenant software. I’d be interested to know who actually owns the requirements and decisions here. Is MoveUp directing the changes and managing Arena, or are Michael and Harry effectively left negotiating with the supplier yourselves? The bigger issue, to my mind, isn’t the software itself. It’s the risk of losing the community that’s taken decades to build. Once the regular contributors stop participating, a technically functioning website isn’t going to bring them back. (cont’d to 3)

1/3 Michael, thanks for the detailed and candid explanation. I can see why you’re frustrated, and I suspect many of us are equally frustrated for you. I’ve spent 40 years in software development, including a lot of time responsible for product and technology decisions, and what strikes me here is that this isn’t primarily a collection of bugs. It’s a mismatch between the product that’s been implemented and the way the ToffeeWeb community actually uses the site. Chronological conversations, being able to find and reference comments, reading an entire discussion without endless clicking, and basic administrative control aren’t exotic feature requests. They’re fundamental requirements for this particular community. (cont’d)

“It really doesn’t seem to be clicking smoothly” Irony!

Chris, spot on mate, besides Martinez screwing things up in his second season, he couldn’t even do anything with arguably the best International squad on the planet, i.e. Belgium. The reason he failed in his second season is that he couldn’t coach our defence like his predecessor. Failed with Portugal as well. I still think though that we may have had an itchy finger on the trigger and if the upstairs had a mind to bring in a defensive coach things may have turned out differently, because otherwise he played some great attacking football. I’ll never forget the Arsenal away game. Should have won that.

Do we not have any photos of Dour Dave in an Everton tracky top instead ? Not that it will endear me to him but he is supposed to be our manager, not West Hams ?

I’ve just found this wonderful paragraph that sums up in a nutsell just how well the IFR comprehends the primary issue facing the majority of Premier League clubs: “The big six is not a static concept. With continued investment and revenue growth, it’s possible for other clubs to join them. Equally, it’s not guaranteed that clubs currently in the big six will remain there if sporting performance worsens.”

Ooops… once is forgivable, Ged… twice is overkill.

So Teddy you don’t believe in giving Dibling more minutes on the pitch then to help rotate. Funny that didn’t work for us last season when we shot our bolt at Europe due to burn out of the same players week in week out. Funny as well that since KDH has scored a goal that all is forgiven, and his very poor start to the season is quickly dismissed. I also said that concerning KDH from a positional sense that I thought that he would make a great box to box midfielder. ” We’d be absolutely overrun by Chelsea with that set up.” and ” Classic arm chair Managment “. No Teddy, it’s classically known as an opinion, which is what I thought this site was all about. ” I’m pleased Moyes is in charge and not you Jonathan because we’d be back looking at relegation and the team’s confidence would be shot. ” That’s rich, EVERYbody was better than Moyes a few weeks ago Ha Ha! And also Teddy, why so snidey, It’s just a debate mate, you sound really bothered.

Will always, as well as loving the usual educational piece from MK, adore the word “behemoth”.

Seeing that 94% of clubs lose money then something is very seriously wrong with our game. The independent regulator also said that £500m was paid to agents alone. He went on to say that if owners walked away most clubs would be insolvent within a month. Its quite obvious to me that players wages and agents fees are to blame for most of the problems. Th eproblem trying to fix it is most of the Premier league players are on long contracts and some Chelsea players have got 5 to 6 year contracts left to run. So any changes would have to be fed in overtime because these players will challenger any club who try to get out of the signed contracts. While I believe City should be relegated I can understand why Mansoor did what he did to conceal where the money was coming from as that was the only way City could break into the cartel. And by letting nation states own clubs the premier league were opening a hornets nest. I can well imagine that City will try and show that there money came

I agree 100% Eric. Bent as an arabs dagger.

my husband got mick walker into the wimslow he went to the phone and who was walking by mick walker he said you comeing in for a pint mick walker said no he said it was not a muliable choice question and he came in drank brandy and ginger got reconized and the manager got him behind the bar he got on the micrapone and said we all know wot will happen to me but i want to say it has been an honour and a privalage to manage this great club and he said he had never seen anything like that had his wife a preist and 2 woolyback bouncers with him

Below is an extract from an article in the Times by Martin Samuel, who offers a different perspective on City, Financial Fair Play and the “Established Order” in English Football. >”The degree to which City’s alleged corruption is greater than the protectionist corruption of Financial Fair Play (FFP) is quite another matter. Those loyal to the European Super League cabal won’t agree, but City are accused of breaking rules that shouldn’t exist in the present form. What began as an assault on unscrupulous owners and debt was twisted into a means of thwarting new money coming into the game, while protecting an elite. If we are giving City’s titles to their rivals, there isn’t a lengthy list of benefactors: it’s Man U, then Liverpool, then Man U & so on. The red clubs, who love the English game so much they conspired to destroy it not so long ago, would again be close to untouchable: just as they like it, just as they’ve engineered”< It's the EPL who should be in the dock, not City.

What? You don’t believe an independent regulator has come about because the Premier League has consistently failed to do anything effective to control the financial irregularities that plague football? That the Premier League avoided dealing with anything appropriately for ages until they were threatened with oversight and then when they did it was solely to sledgehammer the likes of Everton and Forest? Part of the new proposals, as I understand it, is that all club owners must present mid to long term business plans for approval, and under those circumstances I would hope TFG’s entirely voluntary moonlight flit after 2 years wouldn’t be permitted. I don’t see any wrongs being righted necessarily but hopefully there will be no future wrongs and fans will be able to consider their club to have protection from the mercurial whims of owners.

How would a partial cap work? Biggest problem is any cap would need to be agreed internationally so that those that go for it don’t end up as minnows in the Euro competitions. F1 doesn’t have to worry about competitiveness being maintained outside of its own competition.

Why is that a “fishy” position to be in?

In answer to parts of Si Cooper’s earlier comment: “This is something new and partly(?) / wholly(?) due to the absolute mess the Prem has made of regulating itself.” I don’t believe that’s true, to be honest, Si. I don’t think that particular objective figures anywhere in the terms of reference under which the IFR was set up. (But I could be wrong…) “If properly applied (will it have the ‘teeth’) the proposed level of regulation may actually have prevented TFG from spitting the dummy after just 2 years.” Again, there is no suggestion or indication I can find that this would ever be a consideration of the Independent Football Regulator. I feel confident in claiming that the last thing he sees as part of his vision or purpose is making Everton fans happy and righting the wrongs they have suffered. It ain’t gonna happen.

Good idea, Pete, there needs to be something that substantially changes the game. This IFR nonsense isn’t going to change anything. ps: Any chance you could click on Account above and change your Display name to “Pete Ambrose”? Cheers.

Nothing will change, the back room will be busy with corporate minions and so called officials who will wheel and deal to keep the status quo while at the same time protecting their own status and jobs. It’s about time football, particularly the PL, take a leaf out of the F1 rule book and limit the yearly spending of clubs to a common, affordable limit. The lowest team in F1 can now afford to compete with the highest team in F1 because spending is capped…. It might upset the likes of Man City,Chelsea or Liverpool etc but it’s time to draw a financial line. Liverpool spent more on one player than Everton could afford to pay for 5/6 players. It’s ludicrous,keeps the top teams at the top and the lower teams from being able to compete and catch up. There will always be seasons were a lower club does well enough to challenge but they can’t afford to sustain that level and inevitably sink back down. I’m not suggesting a complete cap but there has to be a better formula than what’s used now

There is an interesting graph, Chart 1.5.2, which asserts that “Competitive Balance has declined in the Premier League.” This uses what it calls the Herfindahl Index of Competitive Balance (no shit!) and measures the concentration of points across teams within a league. Fewer clubs getting more of the points. It bounces around but, from 1995 to 2025, there is an overall trend. More in Annex B… which I can’t find. Oh, and I love this bit on Open Consultations: Consultation Opens: 5pm, Tuesday 13th October | Consultation Closes: 5pm, Tuesday 8th October Errr…. Time Machine?

Colin Harvey deserves this. A true Everton man who took on an almost impossible job. Looking forward to reading it.

Chris James. 11th is two positions higher than 13th position the Moyesiah finished last season. I dont know but would be very surprised if Martinez spent the same £115 million that David spent on transfers

“Below, we set out a six-point action plan for football. By May 2030, when clubs are required to have been granted full licences by the IFR, this plan is intended to reduce systemic risk, improve club financial soundness, governance and fan engagement, in line with the IFR’s statutory objectives. 1. Revenue distribution should be reformed, but changes should focus on financial stability, not encouraging imprudent spending. 2. Leagues, clubs and other stakeholders should take action to reduce financial losses. 3. Action should be taken at National League level to ensure football governance matches the risk within the game. 4. Clubs must improve how they manage financial risk. 5. Clubs must show how they take fans’ views into account. 6. Clubs should improve Corporate Governance and make progress on boardroom and senior executive diversity.” That’s it. Fantastic. It is clearly going to do absolutely nothing to address the prevailing disparity in Premier League finances.

The game is in the gutter. The premier League needs scrapping and starting all over again. But without the media big 6. They can go and have a super league on there own.

I’ve scanned the report to see what it says about: (a) Everton — 25 mentions… nothing we didn’t already know; (b) The Premier League — 749 mentions… most of which are about money until you get to Section 5: Non-financial issues. I see nothing with any real meaning for change out of 245 pages that mostly state the bleeding obvious. Under ‘Actions’ it balefully admits in bold: “There is no single, simple solution that will reduce financial risk without undermining the fundamentals that drive the financial success of the English game.” More on the earth-shattering six-point action plan in my next comment….

LOL. Here come the Moyes bashers!!! This is the Martinez that had one good season with Moyes team and then dropped down to 11th straight after? The guy that took Wigan down? The guy that squandered the ‘golden generation’ with Belgium and is hardly excelling with Portugal? I didn’t hate the fella, I get behind every manager who comes in but I don’t recall there being a lot of support for ‘Bobby brown shoes’ in these parts at the time…

The only way around it is to look at something akin to the Fantasy Football budget. Every team has the same transfer/wages budget. If you blow yours on the big name expensive players then you need to balance it with younger cheaper players.

I think the premier league officials have created the wholly unfair premier league as it is now and unless they are forced to change the way the league is based now then they will carry on with the same attitude. Greg , underneath this post, – Kogan is also a donator to the Labour Party which can be a fishy position to be in so I would have preferred a totally different person to come out with this report.

“described by one newspaper as a labour crony” Bet I can guess which newspaper that was.

I’m not sure why the fact that Kogan is involved in the Labour Party has anything to do with his report. We do have a Labour government, it’s hardly a surprise to see them appointed someone they know to look at changing the football pyramid. So, no, Michael, I’m not going to treat it with a “dose of heavy cynicism” that you’re calling for, I’m prepared to see what they come up with first before sticking a politically biased boot into it.

I really like this bit: “…Evertonians, who have spent the last 3 years watching our club being gutted by corrupt financial rules, arbitrary points deductions, and bureaucratic overreach while Manchester City’s oil-state monsters tied lawyers in knots…” Totally sums up the depressing experience of supposedly being the equal of all other PL teams from a regulatory perspective but in reality being treated like a gnat, to be swatted without a moment’s thought.

Hang on MK. I think this may actually surprise a fair few people. Fans are often complaining when their clubs aren’t splashing the cash so they must think there is plenty of cash to be sprayed around. Also, this is something new and partly(?) / wholly(?) due to the absolute mess the Prem has made of regulating itself. If properly applied (will it have the ‘teeth’) the proposed level of regulation may actually have prevented TFG from spitting the dummy after just 2 years, although it may be thought it would have scared them off entirely (even though EFC was a fairly priced opportunity for someone). Need to wait and see how things pan out before rushing to judgement. What is really unlikely is that they will level the playing field significantly in the short term but they might halt the ever widening divide and then we may get it narrowing over time.

I do wonder how much clout this fella can exercise over the Premier League and its closed shop of clubs who make their own rules and then suffer by them. The monster grew and flourished out of free market capitalism at its most rampant. It’s funny how many people periodically posted on here foretelling how the Premier League was going to implode. I just can’t see how you’re going to get the genie back in the bottle, but I don’t think this guy is gonna be the one to do it

Philip I think it was a Tuesday night but then again it might have been a Wednesday night – can I ask a friend?

We have created a monster. A monster that only allows 5 or 6 teams to start the season thinking that they can win a trophy. It’s ridiculous. Everything is weighed against the remaining 14 or 15 clubs winning anything. It’s no longer a competition. Maybe this is the reason our owners are selling up as the have realised that they can go no further within the present regulations.

Minsk Villa and City had a very good player in Grealish —we’ve got the one who is on his way down and well past his best.

Grealish hasn’t got the energy to play in that role he’d be knackered after the first thirty minutes— he’s very lucky to be starting where he plays on the wing and is constantly preserving his energy there where he has loads of space but making very little out of that space just going backwards and sideways with his passes.

Jack wants too many touches on the ball to ever play at 10 for me Ian.

Had an in and out start to the season KDH but starting to come good Teddy. His name would be one of the first names selected to start imo.

Playing JB at left-back is about the weakness of the squad. Clearly not a preference. He’s the best ball-playing defender that we have. Moyes obviously feels that he is going to be solid enough defensively (with enough PL experience) but also be able to pass the ball moving forward. It’s an absolutely awful option, really, when you’ve got Grealish, who needs people to run past him. Also Tarko and JB are one of the best centre-back pairings in the PL, and JB makes Tarko and mykolenko look so much better when he’s on the pitch. Why you would break that up is only out of desperation. I wouldn’t be breaking those two up, but then the club have left themselves in a mess with no left-back Also, if you’re going to move JB to left back, you’ve got to play O’Brien unless he’s been told his future at the club’s over. He should get as many mins as possible because (If we manage to keep JB) him and JB are the future 1st pairing for the foreseeable future. Keane is there for emergencies

This is what you’d do against top clubs? Drop our best player (KDH) and don’t bring him on at all. Put Jack in there who can’t press with anywhere near the intensity or speed (meaning we get pushed further back and wouldn’t get chances like we did at hull from KDH’s interception). Play Dibling who has been shocking in attack and defence for his entire Everton career (apart from a couple of glimpses this season). Take off Jack at half time for Charlie who has been really poor against top opposition (you can’t be suggesting he’d play up front or is anywhere near at the pace to play in CM). Classic arm chair Managment. We’d be absolutely overrun by Chelsea with that set up. I’m pleased Moyes is in charge and not you Jonathan because we’d be back looking at relegation and the team’s confidence would be shot. I don’t think people appreciate how important building high standards and great foundation to not lose games is in the PL.

Id think norguard is more likely to start on the bench, and come on as a sub. A start will be targeted against Newcastle in the cup. He was touch and go last week to be involved at all, so a start seems unlikely after a long time out. His fitness way behind the rest. He will be needed going forward, but just pitching him in would be madness.

Good to see Merlin Rohl developing a new career as club photographer, given Moyes is starving him of playing minutes.

Good to see brothers getting on