It seemed to me that the crowd were just having a go at Diouf because of his arrogance because the ball boy didn’t put the ball in his hand and merely threw it at him..

It was replayed several times and it didn’t look like Diouf said anything at all to him...just glared at him as he ran away - as if - ’how dare he throw the ball at me, does he not know who I am’...

Sounds like a load of shite to me..

I thought the ballboy threw the ball at his nuts, I had a laugh until his gesturing, big hard knock staring out a 10-year-old scally.

According to the Guardian, the ’Senegal International’ (impressed? - I’m the best basket-weaver in my flat) is alleged to have said "Fuck off white boy".

When I saw the incident on telly yesterday, I just thought he was being barracked because he’s a truly obnoxious, putrid fucking toe-rag.

However looking this morning, he DID seem to say something and you can see the linesman react.

However, I should also say as much as I detest ’Jooffy’ (as ’big Sam’ calls him), there is something strange/ironic/amusing about the idea of the St End getting worked up about racial abuse from a black player.

I spent most home games in the 70’s in there and heard stuff that would have made your average KKK grand Wizard think "Jesus maaan, you can take a thang too far!"

Bet when Garth Crooks heard about it, he allowed himself a wry (whatever wry is) smile.

Whilst Diouf is an undoubted prick, it would be extremely dangerous/hypocritical to be outraged or smug about this incident. At the Fulham game the other week, I heard at least three of our fans within earshot shout racial abuse at Fulham players, our players and the stewards standing 10 yards away.

One man, much to the embarassment of his wife and daughter, shouted racists "jokes" at the stewards and players so much i think the only reason he was not ejected was that he was drunk, tattooed and about 25 stone and the physical effort of ejecting him was not worth it to the black stewards despite him using the type of abuse I have never heard anyone genuinely use in my lifetime (I am 21) - Kunta Kinte anyone?

Needless to say I was ashamed that these people were in our section of the crowd.

Also, is "white boy" even a racial slur?

Eugene & James, I dont condone racial abuse in any form, but just because a coloured player is alledged to of said "Fuck off white boy" we are supposed to laugth this off. If the player was white and the ball boy black and he made racial comments I suppose you would all be up in arms. RESPECT works for all at a match, players, officials and supporters. If Diouf has made the comments that were reported he should recieve the same treatment as supporters have done in the past i.e banned from football grounds. James one final comment for you - if Fuck off white boy is not a racial comment, then in the same context niether is Fuck Off black boy..

Wonder what the reaction would be if a white said similar to a black ball-boy?
being a born and bred Liverpool 8 man, I have never abused anyone and mentioned their skin colour
However, I was involved in a ’Life of Brian’ racism discussion in the St End some years ago for calling Ian Rush a big-nosed, Welsh bastard
Got a lot of venom from several supporters with prominent proboscises and roundly berated by the Taffymen surrounding me - especially with a name like mine (ap Ellis), a rather indelicate and ill-thought remark

Quite right Ken, its very differcult for white liberals to get their head around the fact that black people can be racist. Maybe they should all be sent on a diversity course.

apologies for typo omission - white ’person’, of course...you see what a narrow line we tread in all this

Oh no..., sorry again, I meant ’player’ er...yea, I erm
Oh fuck it - I’ll get me coat

I find it quite amusing that I am some sort of New Labour liberal in the mind of Steve Edwards. I understand that had David Dunn called someone "black boy" there would be a lot more anger but my point was that we cannot sit on some moral high horse here about racism when a depressing minority of our fans shout racist abuse themselves.

Also, I for one would not be offended if someone called me a white boy, perhaps I’m simply ignorant about how offensive the term is to Mr Edwards and Ken Williams?

Well done, Steve, Black people can be racist too. But don’t go all Daily Mail on us, as some people out there will be jumping for joy over this.

Just to clear up, I’m not suggesting that black people "can’t be racist" just because they’re black, I’m merely saying that perhaps we should sort out our own house before crying about that nasty Diouf man calling someone "white boy"

James,

As I remember it, ’Kunte Kinte’ was a slave featured (featured?) in the Alex Hayley book (and TV series) ’Roots’, a story which became a worldwide phenomenon in the mid-70’s.

Those of us of a certain age, week-by-week followed the story of Kunte Kinte’s children, grandchildren and great grand children as we saw them go through slavery, civil war, the abolishment of slavery and finally ’freedom’ (sort of).

Actually, if there’s such a thing as surreal racist abuse, the guy you talk about.

"Kunte Kinte was black and so is that Fulham player....geddit?"

Imagine if someone was trying to wind you up by shouting the names of white people - "Oy you! Yeah you - Billy Fury!"

Shouting the name at a Fulham player in 2009 indicates a couple of things.

1) The illustrated fatty is probably around the 45-50 mark.

2) He’s also definitely ESN

You need a diversity course James and I never mentioned New Labour. You clearly are ignorant.

James, some are going to use this incident to justify their own racism. I don’t think edwards is that upset about it at all. Expect plenty of faux-outrage.

Nice one EJ
One of my pals still goes by the name ’Chicken George’
As for non-white racism, I lived off Granby St during the Nigerian Civil War in the late 60s, by God there was some nasty goings on...yet both sides were united in their contempt of ’Caribbeans’
Sad but true

Congratulations Ken!!

"I dont condone racial abuse in any form, but.."

Eugene,

The man in question was shouting at the black stewards calling them Kunta Kinte. I knew what it referred to mostly because of the Eddie Murphy film Coming to America. My point was that it made me uncomfortable that a few of our fans still shout these things and whilst we can pass it off as a few ignorant/surreal idiots, it seems a bit rich of other fans to express the "faux outrage" that D O’Keefe refers to when these people are in our midst.

Also, mind my ignorance but what is ESN?

Personally, I hope this one blows over, If Diouf had said that to me I wouldn’t be arsed, I am a white boy!

I think it goes the other way though, I just wish people would try and chill out when someone makes a flippant comment and not go overboard calling people racist etc. To me a racist is someone that genuinely believes that a person of a different colour is beneath them, not someone who makes a throwaway remark. (I’m not talking about shouting racial abuse at a player which I think is disgusting.)

I actually think Big Ron Atkinson was a little hard done to as was Luis Arragones for his remark about Henry. Ironically both did a lot to help black players emerge in their respective countries yet were branded racists by politically correct gobshites that had probably never even spoken to a black person.

I was at the Fulham game and they made real cock-up at half time by trying to serve a few thousand half-cut blues with one draught tap. Cue lots of funny comments eventually descending into the foulest racist abuse I have heard in a long time. I had that sinking feeling you get when you want to say something but realise you’ll just get battered for it. I made some lame comment to one guy about his motivational strategy of calling the guy serving a "paki" was probably not helping to speed things up. Got called ’speccy four eyes’ for that, which actually cracked me and a lot of people around me up cos it was so old school.

Seriously though, the fact is we have a small minority of fans who are racist and they are often the same people who seem to go to games dahn sarf to get into a ruck with some soft southern pansies. They seem ready to fight their own fans if that’s all that’s on offer.

I felt ashamed to be associated with such idiots. And things on the pitch weren’t any better....

Andy, if you’re gonna be indignant make it a worthwhile cause.

Whilst Diouf has all the charm & personality of a wasp, i personally hope the Merseyside police have far more important things to do with their time than this nonsense.

The ball boy didn’t exactly cover himself in glory, I mean, it’s not that hard a job is it?

Teacup, storm, bollocks, load of.

James I did not say the term white boy was offensive, I simply stated that if the term ’black boy’ is deemed offensive then so is using the term ’white boy’. Using the colour of anyones skin, sexual orienation or religion after telling them to Fuck Off I believe would be deemed racist, bigoted or narrow minded. What Diouf should of said was Fuck off you little knob, I can see anyone complaining about that. Eugene, lifes full of ’buts’, whys’ and maybes....

Ken, this is true but considering it is a near certainty that Diouf was racially abused by more than one of our fans (we all know they exist), who would’ve said far worse towards him, the indignant reaction from people who act as if they are truly upset by what he’s said seems hypocritical to me.

Atkinson was hard done to? its all coming out now. So calling someone a lazy thick nigger is acceptable because he helped some black players?

As for "politically correct gobshites", why not just accept that attitudes to race have changed since you were a lad and accept it. In short it means that calling someone a lazy thick nigger is unacceptable and could lead to some serious repercussions. Take that on board Nicholls.

Daniel, If "fuck off white boy" is racist... surely "Southern pansies" is too?

James we have all heard racist comments, although these people are now thakfully in the minority, the point you are missing is that the alledged comments where from an adult directed at a child.

I take your point O'Keefe, what he said was unacceptable but I still think it was a little harsh when he was branded a racist.

By the way I’m only 30, although you're probably right, when I was at school we all used to laugh at and tell racist jokes but if a black or asian kid was in our class they were never treated any different. I can’t imaging those jokes being the norm now which I guess is a good thing.

Nicholls, you're only two years older than myself!

It's not a little harsh, some people get called racist because they are racist. Then again Nicholls, I call a spade, a spade.

I’ve been told ’fuck off white boy’ in London a few times, and didn’t bother me one bit, it was their lame-ass problem and I’d probably be ordering a Big Mac from them some time in the future.

People get very scared and run a mile from anything that could even remotely be considered as racism, but it's not quite so... black and white ahem.
It's very easy to be outraged on behalf of other people.

I’d be careful there, O'Keefe, calling people Spades might land you in hot water with the PC Brigade :)

I am absolutely not indignant over this incident. Frankly, much as I despise Diouf, I feel there is something that doesn’t seem quite right about what he is alleged to have said. That’s why I think anyone who heard should come forward. Having said that, I feel that this weekend demonstrated that Diouf and Bellamy are probably the two lowest forms of life who have ever graced the Premier League.

I heard the "nigger-pool" shout coming from the Lower Gwladys, it did my head in.

I remember people spouting racist shite when I was younger (but being too scared to challenge them myself) and then seeing them shut up sharpish if anyone black arrived in earshot. They are cowards.

I also remember the majority of Goodison (but not some) shouting monkey noises at Viv Anderson. As they say, times have changed, but not that much..
Up the Blues.

Very funny Nicholls, I have seen Team america as well.

James Thomas... very timely discussion on political correctness. Eugene referred to ESN... he may have meant educationally sub normal. This terminology was deemed inappropriate in the early 1980s and has been replaced with SEN: special educational needs.

I prefer to call any low life that comes out with such racist twaddle a plain "gobshite". Has a ring to it, no ?

Thanks Alan

Also, Andy Crooks, in defence of Craig Bellamy (not a phrase i usually hear myself saying), he’s not all bad, he just has a temper.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article3876373.ece

If one more person cites ’PC Brigade’ ’Liberal’ Lefties as justification for the idiocy of a police investigation into something as trivial and frivolous ... I’m going to hunt them down and slowly throttle them with their violently ripped off bleeding scrotum...

Yours a Guardian reading Old Labour hippie tofu knitting sandal wearing leftie

David Nicholls: "I actually think Big Ron Atkinson was a little hard done to as was Luis Arragones for his remark about Henry. Ironically both did alot to help black players emerge in their respective countries yet were branded racists by politically correct gobshites that had probably never even spoken to a black person"

This is one of the most ignorant, ridiculous things I have ever read on this website. People stand up and speak out over someone calling a black player a "lazy nigger" or a "black shit" and that makes them a "politically correct gobshite"? Nothing even happened to Aragones anyway, he carried on happily in his job. As for you claiming these people have "probably never even spoken to a black person", how could you possibly know anything about any of these people?

And on a general point, for the record, of course black people are capable of being racist toward white people, and we shouldn’t accept that, but there’s also nothing wrong with acknowledging or recognising that racism from an overwhelming majority toward a minority is far more sinister and frightening than the other way around because of the power structure and potential social implications.

As for the original Diouf incident, it needs to be taken seriously for the sake of precedent, because you can’t let someone off (that’s if he said it) and not expect to cause yourself problems in the future. Personally though I’m much more bothered about Juanfran on Thursday, there’s someone who needs a ban.

Am I missing something here. What exactly has Craig Bellemy got to do with an alleged racial incident at Goodison Park?

"There’s also nothing wrong with acknowledging or recognising that racism from an overwhelming majority toward a minority is far more sinister and frightening than the other way around because of the power structure and potential social implications"

Maybe in this case, but I’m sure there are many white people (myself included) who have been victim of racist abuse where we weren’t representative of the majority, and alleged incidents like this only serve to encourage this.

Racism is wrong full stop, and for those who hear it in the stands these days, they have a confidential number you can text to help the clamp down. As for if and when it happens on the pitch, the player in question should be treat with the full force of the law and I only hope that there are enough honest Evertonians out there who provide the investigating parties with the correct information.

I remember some time ago on this forum, the Merseyside Police was accused for beeing racist. People assumed they did not like black people, based on the police having a word with Anichebe. I can recall that most of the people in that thread were sure that it had to be some sort of "racist-thoughts" that led to the other. In that case, there was nothing said or done by the police that could be considered as racism. They were still racists in peoples eyes and they did even apology to Anichebe.

In this case, a well known idiot, called El Hadji Diouf said to one of our ball-boys to "fuck off white boy". I would say, that sums up pretty much what he think about whites in general. Otherwise, he would have chosen his words differently. There are some less intelligent people here that say, "white boy" is not racism. Well, probably not... but "fuck off white boy" is a different matter. Same sort of people in here claim that this is not a big deal. Well, imagine the reverse? (White player - black ballboy) That would just about be the biggest deal in the world in a second, and YOU KNOW IT! Imagine those headlines... As some people have already pointed out. If a white player would say "fuck off black boy" to the black ball-boy, that would cause a totally different reaction in this thread, that’s for sure.

A white player, could not even say, "Give me the ball, black boy", without facing immediate problems... and you all know that too.

On another note, I suppose David O'Keefe and Mike Allison thinks it’s worse to call a grown black man "lazy", than telling a white ten year old to fuck off?

So, lots of salient (and less so) points raised above, but racism aside - is it really appropriate for a player to tell a ball boy to fuck off?

As someone who stopped going to Goodison because I didn’t choose to mix with a sizeable minority of nazis and the plain dumb, allow me to say that it’s ironic that such a debate takes place on this site which in the last four or five weeks has seen (unmoderated) comments about "The yids" - Spurs and one less than delicious poster referring the Irish in a derogatory way.

As to the homophobic comments, well dears, let’s just leave those to one side in their ignorant splendour.

Two quick points: we have had and we still have a minority of match going fans who are the dregs of the earth (wearing a blue scarf, strangely, doesn’t confer moral goodness) and, second, we still have those prepared to defend them on the grounds that erm... well... if it happens in a football ground it’s all part of the match going experience... we're all big lads etc, when what they really mean is that the Law stops at the turnstyles and people can behave in whatever foul way they choose.

Everton in particular should have been dragged before Uefa years ago and the true shame of the Merseyside police is not that they are "wasting time" on the particular incident last Sunday but that they haven’t been dragging dozens of fans before the magistrates for the last number of years.

Interesting to see that most of the people on this thread have already decided that Diouf’s guilty of actually saying ’fuck off, white boy’....

I was under the impression people were innocent until proven guilty.

I was also under the impression that racism had to be pejorative... I guess everytime I fill in an ethnic background monitoring form — I’m in effect racially abusing myself..

Mike McLean - 100% spot on.

Although one of my reasons for continuing to go (knowing that often, I’ll be in the company of insane racist apes) is that if I stop going, ’they’ win (not sure what they win but....)

Oh and Alan McGuffog, when I wrote ’ESN’ it wasn’t an acronym for ’Educationally sub-normal’ but rather for ’Special Educational needs’.

Thanks for drawing everyone’s attention to my dyslexia...tunc!

Maybe, with English presumably his second (or third) language, Diouf simply confused his ’voiceless alveolar plosive’ with his ’denti-alveolar consonant’ - that is to say he in fact called the chap a ’wide-boy’...

I think there’s two separate issues here that should be treated as such. The racism of individual football fans (and I believe it is individuals now rather than the group activity that has been seen from opposition fans in England away matches) and the actions of a player. The two shouldn’t be conflated and used to excuse each other or re-direct attention from one problem to the other.

Diouf’s comment was racist in the sense that ’white boy’ is, and was in this instance, used as a derogatory term to assert minority superiority on some grounds over the white majority. In this instance, Diouf’s primary sense of superiority seems to be that he was dealing with a child. Is it the worst incident of racism ever? No, it’s a pretty petty one.

Should the police be involved? At a substantial level no but simply ignoring an offence because it’s minor is a dubious policy - we all complain when the police don’t do anything about vandalism or other ASB. Plus, if a complaint was made by a powerful corporate body like Everton FC, then, whether you like power structures or not, they are bound to investigate it due to the potential costs of not doing so. Add to that the efforts to eradicate racism in Enlgish football and it makes sense that the police acted as they did.

As for those who say they’re white and they’re not offended and thus it isn’t offensive; it’s not about the phrase per se as much as the power structures present when it’s employed and (in broader contexts) how it reflects societal cohesion. Aragones being indulged when called Henry a black shit is a reflection of a Spanish society where, as English teams have discovered, racism is as pervasive on the terraces as it was in the past in England. Aragones’s status as a leading figure in Spanish football who can get away with overt racism is both a perpetuator and symptom of the problem.

That Big Ron was sacked and censured, and remains so due to his inability to understand why he was wrong to speak as he did, shows a different mentality in Britain. Not one that is PC but one that expects those in the public eye to appreciate how their actions shape and reflect society. In this instance, shaping or reflecting a society in terms of racial hierarchy is unacceptable.

As I said before, Diouf’s actions were minor but remain problematic.

Maybe our deep-seated prejudices led us to a ’racist’ interpretatioin of what could well be a simple pronunciation conundrum...

Racisim is racisim no matter which way you look at it. But I'm more concerned that a grown man verbally attacked a young boy for doing his job.

Diouff is utter scum.

I’m no fan of Diouf, I think he’s a charmless oink.

That said, the mock indignation of football fans does make me chuckle. It’s amusing that some people think paying £25 or whatever it is gives them some sort of right to verbally abuse someone on the pitch. And that that person has no right of reply.

If Diouf said what he is accused of saying then it ain’t particularly nice, but frankly who gives a fuck? Certainly not the ball boy, who rather failed to perform a fairly simple task.

There are plenty of racists still at large at Goodison. My own father used to use the word nigger, admittedly only once or twice, and he was in the army in West Africa and had a particular fondness for all his black comrades, one even saved his life.

Abuse is unpleasant and unnecessary. If someone is offended then at the very least an apology is appropriate. But to involve the police over such trivial nonsense like Diouf-gate is taking the piss.

I’ve even re-appraised my view of Adebayor’s little cameo. I think running the length of the pitch and looking like a a dopey twat in so doing is punishment enough. What right have fans to shout abuse at a player and then turn into crazed madmen when that player simply runs down the pitch and metaphorically says "ha ha, I scored a goal".

I’m sorry, but too many fans are still fucking idiots. Total hypocrites and so amusingly precious.

Let’s get angry about proper things in the game, like cheats and dirty bastards (like Etuhu, lucky man) not trivia like this.

"When you look at me you don’t see a man. You see a black man" A line from one of the Die Hard films. I think it is true of anyone. When you look at someone else you see their colour first. Not that they are male or female. I think that is only natural. When you use their colour as a basis to form an opinion then you are being racist.

"Fuck off, White Boy" is a racist comment when made in the context Diouf made it. If he had said "Fuck off, White Boy" in jest to a friend (not that he has any), it’s a flippant remark with no malice intended. The comment in context was racist because it was intended as a form of abuse. That’s my view on it anyway.

Re the ’Yids’ comment and Spurs supporters. It’s a very grey area; I once had the thankless task of moderating on a sports forum message board.

Spurs supporters often referred to themselves as the ’Yids’ and even gave themselves forum nicknames around that word (Yiddo; Yiddishartlane1 are two I remember).

I was a little bit uncomfortable with the use and asked the advice of the Ed - who responded ’as long as the word isn’t being used in the context of a personal or group insult - it’s okay’

I still felt uncomfortable but who am I to tell someone what they can and they can’t call themselves?

In the case of that horrible twat Diouf - I’m not even sure he said what he is supposed to have said, nobody who heared what was said has commented on here so far.

I can’t believe how far the society has gone with this brainwashed propaganda. Every racial abuse against white people is supposed to be laughed away for some reason. But when things are the opposite, "we should all fight this strongly, and show racism the red card, and dial a special number where you can point that person out who may have said something inappropriate to a non-white person." Many have pointed out that it’s not that big a deal when a minority insults the majority, but think for a moment on the way things have changed in recent decades. It’s 2009 now and people should be much aware that the majority can very fast become the minority (which is the case in more and more places), and you are already setting the standards for the future.

People justify this type of behaviour by making examples from different epochs in history, Goodison Park in the 70s, someone’s father actually used the word "nigger" once or twice and blah blah blah... Almost everything I read in this thread is just excuses for what could have been the reason for El Stupid Diouf to act like he did.

They are too many to list, but if you have the time (which I clearly see many of you have), you can read the posts in this thread and compare them to the posts in this thread, just to see the difference in how people see things and react to things. It’s quite astonishing!

See for yourselves and bring on the future. At least I can see what is happening and what is coming.

Kevin Spencer are you for real? Of the four words I put into quotes "lazy" is the one you thought was important?

Blimey, I guess you are for real, I’ve just read your last comment. You’re starting to sound like the "racist dwarf" from In Bruges.

Mike Allison... I’m for real and I suppose that can be hard to believe for a man, perhaps not so real, in terms of free-thinking-ability. I don’t blame you for not seeing the obvious. I blame the society. You are just the victim, which is a shame. I truly believe you have potential, even though you haven’t shown any yet. But that will probably come with age. Go on and make me proud, son! You show them, Tiger! ;-)

And to round this "late show" off, we have come to the final part where we let the guest of honour "Mike Allison" give us a tricky question.

(Mike Allison) - "Of the four words I put into quotes "lazy" is the one you thought was important?"

Yes, Mike. That’s right. You have to see the whole picture here. It all goes back to the glory days of this Monday, where Mr Allison himself reacted in an angry mood to a person saying that Ron Atkinson was hard done to. This Allison did in fact mention El Hadji Diouf saying some less thoughtful things to our ball-boy, but stuck to his believe that it is far worse to racially insult black people than vice versa, saying:

"[...]there’s also nothing wrong with acknowledging or recognising that racism from an overwhelming majority toward a minority is far more sinister and frightening than the other way around because of the power structure and potential social implications."

Apart from Mike, telling everybody that he has read his homework in the school of politically correctness. And as such, says just what he has been told to say. He also proclaim, that the real bad guy is Big Ron, as Mr. Diouf is not THAT bad after all.

So what do we have here: Big Ron was quoted saying: "Lazy nigger" and "Black shit". El Hadji was quoted saying: "Fuck off white boy". That’s four words each. The word "black" in this context refers to the word "nigger", so that equals. That can be compared to El Hadjis phrase: "White boy". So what is left then? "Lazy", "Shit", "Fuck off". The word shit refers probably to the fact that Atkinson thought Henry was lazy. But either way, these facts remains. Atkinson said a certain full grown black player was lazy and shit, while Diouf said a certain white ten year old boy to fuck off. "Lazy/Shit vs Fuck off?. Do you see this clearer now?

Besides... A well respected Englishman, speaking his mind of a French journeyman, now playing his trade in Spain makes much more logic, than a Senegalese criminal journeyman telling a British ten year old ball-boy to fuck off.

If someone should go fuck off, it is El Hadji Diouf!

Kevin Spencer; If, as you say in your deranged and ridiculous post, whites will soon be the minority, then why is this not reflected in the racial make-up of influential areas of society such as education, law, politics, journalism, business leadership, public management positions etc etc?

You sound like a neo-nazi fantasist telling us all that "at least" you "know what's coming"... Well thank fuck for that, Nostradamus.

In a few years, I imagine you will be holed up in a forest with a few retarded comrades and an arsenal of race hate literature and hand grenades, without internet access I hope.

I note that El Hadji Diouf has attempted to turn the tables on his unacceptable behaviour by accusing Everton fans of throwing bananas at him!

The attitude, demeanour and behaviour of this player defies belief. Everything about him is despicable — sad, because, at times, he is not that bad a footballer with excellent ball control.

Obviously, I wasn't at the match, but watched the delayed broadcast some 6 hours after. At no stage during the said events did I see anything untoward from the fans other than the usual outrage and venom that he seems to attract — and rightly so from his past record.

I cannot understand that kind of behaviour throughout every stage of his career — and certainly cannot understand how he seems to think that the lies he comes out with could somehow go to excuse his own ridiculous behaviour on (and off) the pitch.

I hope that the FA really go to town on this low life — I would have hoped Allardyce might have told him to shut up, but then again........

Kevin Spencer; "But either way, these facts remains. Atkinson said a certain full grown black player was lazy and shit, while Diouf said a certain white ten year old boy to fuck off. "Lazy/Shit vs Fuck off?. Do you see this clearer now?"

No. It was the "fucking nigger" part that was offensive you plank, if the tit would have said "lazy fucking black boy" it would have made for a more interesting debate, instead it was outright, good old boy racist shite. Do you see this clearer now?

And how do you know the ball boy was ten?

The Sun says, "Everton are furious after Blackburn's El Hadji Diouf, in an interview on Senegalese radio, claimed their fans hurled bananas at him on Sunday. Police are investigating the striker for alleged racial abuse of a ball-boy in Rovers' 3-0 defeat."

Interesting...

It looks like Diouf didn’t say anything - otherwise the Assistant ref would’ve told the police...

I wonder if this is indeed true, who was pulling this ball boys strings...

As for Diouf’s banana accusation... I didn’t see it at all. But in all likelihood there will probably have been some racist comments aimed at him from our resident knuckle draggers...

Kevin Spencer, the OTT reaction from Mike and Sonny to your post only emphasises the fact that with issues regarding race, double standards are deemed acceptable.

It’s almost impossible to have a sensible discussion about race without people becoming self righteous and branding people racist and ignorant when people are simply giving their opinion.

I tell ya mate, they way things are going we’ll all end up with towels on our heads while using our left hand for toilet paper

PS that last bit was a joke - before I get branded racist ignorant scum haha!

In the Sun article, did Diouf more or less say "I’m not racist, some of my best friends are white" — haha.

For a good take on words and those who overeact to them, check out George Carlin, 7 minutes in... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeDv8ZT-K3g&feature=related

Nicholls, if anyone is trying to shut down debate here it is you. I repeat, it is acceptable to call racists, racists.

As for Kevin Spencer, bloody typical, criticises one form of racism but uses it to justify his own racism. Hypocrite.

Eugene Ruane, do you not think his comments are one of the most offensive things a white person can say to a black person, outside of the N-word or Gollywog? It's the fact that he’s calling somebody a slave, which still smarts no matter what most people would like to believe.

Now I am no bleeding heart liberal or apologist for that matter (it wasn’t me who invented slavery) but reading through some of comments posted here does smack of closet or at least institutionalised racism.

And to throw my tuppence in on the 'white boy' comment, I went to a multicutural school and heard a lot of slurs by people of different colour, fact is as soon as you bring people's colour into an argument it becomes a race issue. There was a line made by a black person in a film that I can't remember the name of, it goes....’when you look in the mirror, you see a face, a person. When I look in the mirror I see a BLACK person’
None of us white people can honestly say we know what that really feels like, even the ones who have lived abroad and been the minority because we are brought up with the sense of superiority based on colour.

Holding a mirror up to racist phrases aimed at non-whites..and stating that their application to whites has the same effect - is utter nonsense.

Perhaps such people could do with a little history lesson on the ravages of insitutional racism for such people....and not the revionist nonsesne of Mr Griffin. If whites had been the isolated victims of social marginalisation and cleansing at any point in time - they may have a point. They don’t.

O'Keefe

I don’t understand how I’m trying to shut down debate? I just think people should be able to express an opinion without being branded a racist, I don’t see it as black and white (pardon the pun) as you seem to do.

Looking through this thread, I don’t think anyone has put a completely ridiculous opinion forward which you may expect from a BNP candidate or a Al Quaeda spokesperson. I just think people, particularly yourself should be a little less self-righteous when responding to people's posts, no offense but you come across as a bit of an arse.

It is now being reported that Diouf has accused Everton fans of throwing bananas at him during the game on Sunday.

He was interviewed on radio about the ball boy incident and then went on to make these accusations. I wasn't at the game on Sunday but if this happened it would have been all over the news bulletins and in the front and back pages of the tabloids.

Funny that the police, stewards, media, match officials and supporters of both teams haven’t reported anything. Taking into account his previous spitting incidents which were utterly disgusting he seems to have reached a new all time low. He is now attempting to drag our good name through the mud and deflect attention away from the police investigation into the ball boy incident.

The latest reports indicate the police are not investigating his allegation about bananas, since none were found and so he is presumably lying through his teeth... and should therefore be dragged before the FA for "bringing the game into disrupte".

I WAS at the match and I WAS in that corner, though the Upper Gladwys Street... and something WAS thrown at Diouf... but it WASN’T a banana and looked to me like a meat and potato pie.

Having just had one of the said pies myself, I thank the Lord it didn’t hit him as that COULD have been a career ender.

And no, my tongue is NOT in my cheek!

’but it WASN’T a banana and looked to me like a meat and potato pie’

You sure it wasn’t a meat and banana pie?

This is getting rather ridiculous and pretty hilarious..

Agree with Michael though, if his claims are proven to be false — he should have the book thrown at him... there’s enough crap in the game without people inventing more.

Nick Entwistle - good call re George Carlin - not seen that for a while!

I see some of the papers are making big noises about the photo of ’Spit the Diouf’ and ’angry Everton fans’.

Colour has lots to do with Diouf’s hostile reception - the twat used to be a ’red’

It’s so simple in my view. If he did make the white boy comment, he’s a pathetic, little prick that needs punishing. If he didn’t, then he’s still a pathetic, little prick, although we can’t punish him.

But some of the morons on this thread make me sick. Are we back in the 70s? Ron Atkinson harshly dealt with? Jesus.

I myself think that both the ballboy and the player are lying.

The difference is that the ball-boy is a 14-year old kid and the other is a 28 year old footballer who is ’supposed’ to have a little intelligence about him.

He should be fined & suspended for the banana throwing allegations as he’s a fucking half-wit and that’s the only thing the prick will understand. If he did make the comments, he should be given a record ban and be made a complete cunt out of.

If the kid is lying - his ma should slap him ’round the house.

That would be that solved.

In all the debate as to what constitutes racial abuse and what doesn’t. Has anyone considered the fact that, whatever this gobshite’s colour is.....he’s definitely a liar.

I was at the game, and could see clearlly the area of the crowd in question. There were no bananas thrown at this guy....or anyone else. Apparently, 1600 press photographs have been studied, and a finger-tip search of the area conducted without any trace of the curly yellow thingies being found.
So, white or black...he’s (alledgedly) a lying, arrogant, average, saliva prone, footballer with considerable previous form in the skills of shit stirring.

In all the debate as to what constitutes racial abuse and what doesn’t. Has anyone considered the fact that, whatever this gobshite’s colour is.....he’s definitely a liar.

I was at the game, and could see clearlly the area of the crowd in question. There were no bananas thrown at this guy....or anyone else. Apparently, 1600 press photographs have been studied, and a finger-tip search of the area conducted without any trace of the curly yellow thingies being found.
So, white or black...he’s (alledgedly) a lying, arrogant, average, saliva prone, footballer with considerable previous form in the skills of shit stirring.

The mention of Garth Crooks reminded me of an incident about 20 years ago. Garth and Geoff Hurst are in the TV studio as ’experts’ and they were discussing a particular (white)player. I forget the name of the player, but his performance must have been idiosyncratic because Geoff Hurst decided to describe him as ’the nigger in the woodpile’ (i.e. someone who was hard to see and was unpredictable)

Garth Crooks acted like he had not heard Geoff Hurst properly, and Geoff just carried on presumably unaware of his faux pas.

Of course in the early 70’s (or perhaps a bit earlier) that expression was in fairly common use, although the word ’nigger’ by itself was considered offensive - but not as offensive as it is now.

In the early 1980s I lived in Upton Park and went to the Boleyn Ground quite regularly. West Ham fans were far more racist than the Everton fans of the day. They were also much easier to please, they would cheer any old rubbish.

Reports suggest that Diouf made his banana throwing allegations on African radio.
If so, it’s appalling. That the name of Everton FC might now be synonomous with racism for Africans because of this odious individual’s lies, makes me rather angry.
I am, of course, assuming they were lies, and as there is no evidence to date to support his assertions, and if it becomes clear that he was lying, he should be reprimanded by the football authorities for bringing the game (in England in particular) into disrepute.
The debate taking place here (though at times tempestuous) shows just how complex the ’racism’ issue is today. It’s a pity that politicians and the establishment in general seem afraid to address the concept of ’racism’ with the same open and honest deabte!

David Nicholls said, "I just think people should be able to express an opinion without being branded a racist, I don’t see it as black and white (pardon the pun) as you seem to do."

Yet you don’t seem to think people should be able to express an opinion (that’s different to yours) without being branded naive, brain-washed, a ’victim’ (pretty funny that one from Kevin Spencer) or a member of the ’PC Brigade’. In fact I think your exact words were ’politically correct gobshites who’ve probably never even spoken to a black person’.

And Kevin Spencer is sounding pretty dodgy to me actually, its hard to tell if he’s joking at times as there’s no ’ctrl-S’ for sarcasm on a keyboard. What exactly was he trying to say in the post above?:

Posted 23/09/2009 at 01:30:30

I seem to recall a spurious allegation relating to Duncan Ferguson and a Shitehawk by the name of Louis Boa Morte. I take all remarks by this particular cretin with the same dose of salts.

Tough one this.

It would appear that Diouf is lying to justify his own infantile petulance. Now, there are undoubtedly fans at Goodison (knuckle draggers as Ciaran will have it) who would certainly be of a racist persuasion and, if their household had any fruit (as opposed to just bacon and lard) then they would probably bring it to throw rather than eat it.

But if this didn’t happen, and I believe it hasn’t happened for many years, then his comments are not just untrue but slanderous.

Thus on the balance of the thing, and because we are dealing with one of the slimiest of slimeballs here, I’d like him hauled up in front of the FA to explain his lies. A ban in the region of 32 games would suffice.

How can people say "Fuck off White Boy" is NOT racist???? Un-fucking-believable!! Shoe on other foot please guys?? Anyone? If the kid thorws the ball at him - at his bollocks, wherever - what has his colour got to do with anything?? Surely "Fuck Off" would be the no-racist equivalent!



Anyway... I currently live in Manchester and see Diouf out in town regularly with his equally classy, articulate and generally clean-cut bunch of cronies.

The guy is a cunt - fact.

Racism against the crowd has to be a sticky subject to bring up surely?

Let's face it, the lad is a boy, he is white and it was a pretty shite throw, I’ve never noticed a ballboy that looked so disinterested...

To be honest, I doubt that ’blah blah blah.. white boy’ was what Diouf said, really, is that a diss?

If so, would you really say it in front of a load of opposition fans? Could it be it was just misheard? Like, ’that’s wide boy’ or whatever?

I'm not defending him, I just don't wanna see us drag a subject up where Everton fans don't have the best of reputations unless at the end of it we can really nail the fucker, and realistically I don't see there's any chance of that.

David Nicholls:

You’re the lad that claims that Big Ron was hard done by, so I’m afraid your subsequent comments on people being overly sensitive about racism don’t convince me.

Big Ron hard done by??????

Un-fucking-believable, lad.

Remember football anyone?

"Rooney? Fifty million or nothing!!"

Or...

"It wasn't just bananas that were thrown at me!" said Diouf angrily.

"There was also a gorilla suit, three nooses, a jar of Robertson's jam from 1958 and a large mosaic of Enoch Powell made out of toast."

What the FUCK is it with football...um...'people' that makes them comfortable just making shit up?

FFS we now live in an era when everything is on video and (or at least audio) tape.

Fact: No banana!

And here is Mark Hughes on Bellamy and the incident with the pitch-invader.

Hughes: "Bellamy was only acting in self-defense. Craig went over to tell him to get off the pitch as quickly as he could, the guy has made an aggressive move and Craig has instinctively put his hand up in a defensive manner and pushed the lad away".

Question - WTF!!??

I mean we ALL saw Bellamy turn, walk five yards back towards the fan, who was being held by four-five stewards and push him in the face.

THAT is what happened, it's on tape, it was repeated and repeated, yet....it's now NOT what happened!?

Of course most of us don't give a shite about Bellamy or the idiot 'fan', but Hughes and Diouf obviously think we're so stupid (and they're so clever!), we'll allow them to just invent a story and there'll never be any real come-back.

And guess what - they probably right.

Remember Mary Poppins (Shearer) almost kicking Lennon's head off?

Poppins: "I know it looked bad but I was just trying to untangle my leg and...well it looked worse than it was, though-but man"

Oh....ok then 'Al, end of story I suppose.

Time for some answering again...

Sonny Phillips said - "Kevin Spencer; If, as you say in your deranged and ridiculous post, whites will soon be the minority, then why is this not reflected in the racial make-up of influential areas of society such as education, law, politics, journalism, business leadership, public management positions etc etc?"

That could be a question about quality or quantity? Perhaps the same reason there is hundreds of thousands Everton-supporters in the world, but none of them good enough to play for the team!

Sonny Phillips said - "You sound like a neo-nazi fantasist telling us all that "at least" you "know what’s coming"... Well thank fuck for that, Nostradamus.
In a few years, I imagine you will be holed up in a forest with a few retarded comrades and an arsenal of race hate literature and hand grenades, without internet access I hope."

Haha, and you are calling me Nostradamus? Well, it could be funny to see which one of our prophecy’s that will turn out true. Firstly, I see your statements as a result of using your heart and feelings more than your brain. But why use your brain, when someone else can do the thinking for you? I believe that’s your slogan in the PC Brigade?
Secondly, why so upset? If my prophecy turn out true, nobody will be happier than you. So why don’t you just relax and let the "house of treason" do the job for you? :-)

Sonny Phillips said - "No. It was the "fucking nigger" part that was offensive you plank, if the tit would have said "lazy fucking black boy" it would have made for a more interesting debate, instead it was outright, good old boy racist shite. Do you see this clearer now?
And how do you know the ball boy was ten?"

So you think that would have mattered? If Ron had used the phrase "black boy" instead of "nigger"? He would still be just as punished. Would it in the same context be worse to call the ball-boy "whitey" instead of "white boy"? Different words, same meaning... The important thing is the intention. Just look at yourself, you are so full of hate, that only the law is prohibiting you from using a stronger language against me (not that I care). And only the eyes from 35 000 Goodison visitors prohibited Diouf from dealing with the ball-boy incident in a way, more custom for him. After all, Ron Atkinson speaks his mind but he is harmless. When it comes to El Hadju Diouf, his history speaks for itself.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2192308.ece

Regarding the ball-boys age, he has been referred as the 10 year old since the early second post in this thread. At least he is a child and that is the whole point, even though you didn’t get that point.

David O/Keefe said - "Nicholls, if anyone is trying to shut down debate here it is you. I repeat it is acceptable to call racists, racists.
As for Kevin Spencer, bloody typical, criticises one form of racism but uses it to justify his own racism. Hypocrite."

The whole idea with a debate is that two or more opinions discusses. Without Nicholls, Steve Edwards, myself and a few others, there would not be a debate anymore... just a thread for you and the PC Brigade to discuss Goodison in the 70’s, John Barnes, Ian Rush’s big nose and Ron Atkinson. That is also a good way of turning the focus away from Diouf, witch is your whole plan.

If it is acceptable to call racists, racists i assume it is acceptable to call a "nigger", "nigger" too? And I suppose you would be called idiot?

"As for Kevin Spencer, bloody typical, criticises one form of racism but uses it to justify his own racism. Hypocrite."

I guess you are one of those, that will never learn. This thread is about the racism aimed to the white ball-boy. Read from the top. Or is that to much to ask? Speaking about hypocrite, your only contribution to this thread have been warning people that this can lead to justifying peoples racism and then of course, you start calling people racists. Of the ones, criticising only one type of racism, you are one of them doing it in the wrong thread, witch makes YOU the hypocrite. If you would like to criticise other forms of racism, perhaps you should start a new thread? Or maybe wait until someone insults a black ball-boy. Until then, you can go back to sleep... and dream about Ron Atkinson coming to get you. Moahahaha! :-)

Traamp Stupido said - "This is probably the most lively discussion I’ve seen on Tofeeweb for a while. I think its positive. Cretins like Kevin Spencer and Steve Edwards aside, there appears to have been some progress regarding the racial issue."

Without those "cretins" as you firmly put the words, Mr Stupido, there would not be a debate anymore. But i suppose that’s the way you would like it. You don’t like competition and I bet you was the last one picked when choosing a football team in school.

Can a group of people, Everton FC on behalf of it’s fans for example, sue an indivdual for slander against them? Seems to me allegations of banana throwing has damaged the opinion of Everton fans amongst the wider community...

K. Spencer: "That could be a question about quality or quantity? Perhaps the same reason there is hundreds of thousands Everton-supporters in the world, but none of them good enough to play for the team!"

These are your true colours, black people have less "quality" than white.

There are many reasons why the professions I mentioned are almost exclusively white and ’quality’ is not one of them. I will not list the contributions that people of other ethnicities have made to our world (society, culture, art, politics etc) though suffice to say they outweigh yours.

He sounds like the ridiculous English Defence League beauts, "we're not racists ....but".

Enjoy our wonderful multicultural society where once Irish people were regarded as inferior, jews witch-hunted and blacks sold as slaves... thank fuck some of us have moved on.

HAHA,

Kevin,

I don’t know who force-fed you the BNP manifesto...but you’d really need to have a think about a ideology that relies on historical revisionism to generate interest...

Hook, line and sinker...

Read a second book.

’Guide to Internet Discussion’ Volume One Chapter One Page One... line one.

"Anyone who uses the phrase ’PC Brigade’ more than once in a discussion is a mouth foaming idiot incapable of forming a coherent argument - avoid them"

Kevin Mark II,

Spot on. I usually find anyone who uses the phrase once fits that description...

I’ve never read so much crap from a poster before, Kevin "BNP" Spencer. Hey, but that’s probably just a stupid personal opinion. I’m one of those morons that thinks calling people a nigger is wrong, and enough to make you lose your credibility as a pundit. I’m an idiot. Sorry. The "PC Brigade" washed my mind. Help!

Sonny Phillips said - "There are many reasons why the professions I mentioned are almost exclusively white and ’quality’ is not one of them."

That is correct. But still you vote for them? But then again, they have created a society you truly adore, so that probably make sense anyway. I bet you see yourself in them. White man with no quality.

Sonny Phillips said - "I will not list the contributions that people of other ethnicities have made to our world (society, culture, art, politics etc) though suffice to say they outweigh yours."

Besides great technology from Asia, I don’t get your point. You will not list that contributions, probably because there is no such list? You have a very strange sense of humour Mr. Phillips.

Sonny Phillips said - "Enjoy our wonderful multicultural society where once Irish people were regarded as inferior, jews witch-hunted and blacks sold as slaves... thank fuck some of us have moved on."

The wonderful multicultural society that accuses Everton supporters for throwing bananas, that are calling the ball-boys "fucking white boys", that is calling every single critical voice "racism"... The list can go on, but I am not allowed to. I am not El Hadji Diouf, so the freedom of speech is not one of my privileges.
Yeah... The multicultural society really makes people "move on".

Kevin Sparke said - "Anyone who uses the phrase ’PC Brigade’ more than once in a discussion is a mouth foaming idiot incapable of forming a coherent argument - avoid them"

Hahaha, you are so pathetic. First of all. I am sorry for using the phrase "PC Brigade" twice. I should have said the "CP Brigade" the second time. Even though it wont make any difference. Actually, you have many things in common with the "CCCP-brigade" too.

John Dybvad said - "I’m an idiot. Sorry. The "PC Brigade" washed my mind. Help!"

Yeah, it probably did. Sorry, can’t help you there, mate.


Ciarán McGlone said - "Blah blah blah blah..... blah blah blah..."

I really seems that all you say in every thread is just nonsense and crap. No wonder they call you "The Belfast Bullshitter". You have a record of getting banned everywhere, but changing your name wont take that "idiot-stamp" away from your forehead. In a thread about a "black racist" (Diouf), all you do is looking for "white racists" to blame. And in another thread (link below), you are also looking for "white racists".

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=11135#comments

I bet your search goes on Mr. Belfast Bullshitter. Try search for a brain surgeon. That would help a lot.

Kevin, this thread has demonstrated that freedom of speech is alive and well on ToffeeWeb and you have most certainly enjoyed the privilege.

Yeah I am a fully paid up member of the CP brigade, quality jackets and very nice shirts.

FUCK OFF WHITE BOY, WE’RE COMING TO SHAG YOUR SISTER.

And that last post from Phoney Phillips, really proves me right. Even in a thread about a black racist, everyone seems to find more interest in blaming themselves or other whites. And you said there was no such thing as a PC Brigade?

That list I asked Mr. Phillips to show, is nowhere to be seen. I guess you are thinking too much of other peoples sisters. Take this for an advise. Stick to your mother as you have always done. Her hairy beaver might be dry, but that is your only chance of scoring. You give her what she wants, or she might leave you!