The Mail Bag
The last word on Steven Pienaar ? again!
Comments (57)
Very interesting quote from Pienaar's agent:
Steven Pienaar?s business manager has questioned Everton?s intentions surrounding his client, and cited the move to secure Mikel Arteta?s services as grounds for concern that Pienaar may not stay at Goodison Park.I was under the impression that EFC had offered him a contract worth £60,000 a week which HE is yet to sign but the agent is suggesting this is not the case. So we have another Mexican stand-off and could lose the player for nothing at the end of the season.
?It is great news for the club that they have secured Arteta for the next five years, and it shows that they are able to move quickly when they want to, but in the case of Pienaar it is surprising that he is the player with the least amount of time remaining on his contract, yet the last to be tied up with a new deal.
?You have to ask yourself, ?Does this mean Everton actually want to sell him?? But there is nothing we can do about it. Obviously if he does not sign a new deal before the end of the transfer window on August 31 then the chances of him doing so are greatly reduced because he will be in the last year of his current deal and able to start negotiating with other clubs in January. He would be a very attractive proposition for them on a free at the end of the season.
?But the player has never said that he wants to leave and he is not the kind of person who goes knocking on the manager?s door halfway through a contract demanding more money and revised terms. That is why it is frustrating that it is taking so long to sort it out now.?
Brinkmanship is all well and good but IMO this situation needs resolving quickly. I get the impression that Pienaar wants to stay but if he is not accepting what the club are offering then we need to move him on and get a replacement in.
It would be a shame because I like the energy and creativity he brings but it would be folly to lose him on a free and IMO it would be disruptive for him to be talking to other clubs in January.
Get it sorted Davy.
Jay Harris, Posted 10/08/2010 at 13:09:54
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I agree, Jay, it appears that he wants to stay... the problem then appears to be the financial package. He could be looking at what Arteta has got and thinking he should be paid something similar. If it's like his agent says and there is no offer from Everton yet, then what are we waiting for?
I find this all so hard to understand why its taking so long to be resolved. Surely, Mr Kenwright and Moyes must have spoke to each other, and made a decision on how much they would like to offer the player. Then call the player in, put the offer on the table... Ask the player to return with a simple yes or no by such a date. Then, depending on the players response, either get him to sign on the dotted line, Or simply sell him! So fucking simple, this has been going on for what seems a lifetime... I just can't understand WHY??!
I think by sort it out means "agree with everything we have asked for no questions" .. bollocks...
The supposed 60 grand a week is a really good offer, but if he refuses to sign and wants more then we're fucked because without offers to buy him then he's stays with us possibly under a cloud until the January transfer window, or until his contract runs out and then we'll come out of it with fuck all. It may turn out to be he's just a greedy bastard after all.
I suppose it all comes down to what Pienaar want's .....what was reportedly offered last year was clearly not enough for him..and what's being offered at the moment is clearly not enough either.
He hasn't publically said he wants to leave because there's no current interest from the pre-World Cup suitors... and if he has nowhere to go then why would he burn his bridges?
However, getting your agent to play the threat of running down the contract is hardly conducive to good relations either....
If you reject a reasonable offer, that represents the limits of what the club can afford, then you don't have to say that you want to leave... It's inherent in the action. The only problem here is that we are guessing what that monetary offer currently is...
He hasn't publically said he wants to leave because there's no current interest from the pre-World Cup suitors... and if he has nowhere to go then why would he burn his bridges?
However, getting your agent to play the threat of running down the contract is hardly conducive to good relations either....
If you reject a reasonable offer, that represents the limits of what the club can afford, then you don't have to say that you want to leave... It's inherent in the action. The only problem here is that we are guessing what that monetary offer currently is...
Ciaran (sorry can't do the little thingy over the "a").....
HEAR HEAR!
HEAR HEAR!
Josh, I think the point is that, up to the making the offer and asking the player for an answer, this is exactly what has taken place. The agent is obviously pressing for more money.
I guess the calculation left to Kenwright and Moyes is, assuming he remains unwilling to sign what's on the table, is how much it's worth selling him for ? I suspect any offers we get will be far less than many seem to think, given the contract situation, in which case they may well judge that we might as well just hang on to him, hope he plays well and who knows, he might see sense in a few months time, especially if noone decent comes in for him with a better offer than he can get here.
I guess the calculation left to Kenwright and Moyes is, assuming he remains unwilling to sign what's on the table, is how much it's worth selling him for ? I suspect any offers we get will be far less than many seem to think, given the contract situation, in which case they may well judge that we might as well just hang on to him, hope he plays well and who knows, he might see sense in a few months time, especially if noone decent comes in for him with a better offer than he can get here.
I think they're right to play hardball with him ? after all, it doesn't look like clubs are queueing up to offer him megabucks, which ? given he's not far off 30 ? shouldn't be a surprise.
God is great ... Mammon is better!
It appears that Steven Pienaar's camp have changed their tune a bit since the World Cup finished rather abruptly and without fanfare for Steven.
Personally I think this should have been sorted last summer, one way or the other.
Personally I think this should have been sorted last summer, one way or the other.
Yeah looks like GOD worships Mammon
Kenwright sounded broadly positive, or certainly hopeful, about both Pienaar and Arteta on Sky a few days ago. Which may, of course, mean sod all.
But I can't for a single moment imagine that Moyes wants to sell Pienaar. He is a Moyes player in every way an, along with Arteta, the heartbeat of the team's creativity.
My reading is that Yakubu, Yobo & Vaughan are the only players Moyes would agree to losing. Possibly to fund Donovan (or another surprise).
So yes, Pienaar-gate is surprising. I'd really hope we'd enter the season with him signed up. The club and his agent can't both be right, but his agent has changed his tune once or twice before.
But I can't for a single moment imagine that Moyes wants to sell Pienaar. He is a Moyes player in every way an, along with Arteta, the heartbeat of the team's creativity.
My reading is that Yakubu, Yobo & Vaughan are the only players Moyes would agree to losing. Possibly to fund Donovan (or another surprise).
So yes, Pienaar-gate is surprising. I'd really hope we'd enter the season with him signed up. The club and his agent can't both be right, but his agent has changed his tune once or twice before.
I agree Stephen, the tone of that piece seemed a little desperate to me - almost as if the agent was begging for a sweetner so he can justify the stalling tactics to his client. Pienaar may well be best advised to put pen to paper as by the end of the season he may not even have an automatic place in the starting XI.
Dictionary definition.
Agent, Football n.
Agentus Moral-less Scum-us
Any lying, scheming, cheating b*stard who purports to represent 'the best interests' of his client, yet is ultimately only concerned with extracting his own, exhorbitant, undeserved fee from the beautiful game and so would happily see said client wasting his career on Man City's bench.
See also:
Agent, Estate
Banker, City
Agent, Football n.
Agentus Moral-less Scum-us
Any lying, scheming, cheating b*stard who purports to represent 'the best interests' of his client, yet is ultimately only concerned with extracting his own, exhorbitant, undeserved fee from the beautiful game and so would happily see said client wasting his career on Man City's bench.
See also:
Agent, Estate
Banker, City
I don't think the agent has changed his tuned at all...He's still using threats ? it's simply a different threat. Before the World Cup, it was going elsewhere; now, it's running down the clock.
Anyone who thinks Pienaar is not complicit in the public utterances of the agent is living in cloud cuckoo land..
Anyone who thinks Pienaar is not complicit in the public utterances of the agent is living in cloud cuckoo land..
I like him, I do, but £60,000 a week for Peanuts? Im lost...
His agent has been talking a lot, and that says to me that he will leave unless Everton up their offer.
I don't understand this "Pienaar wants to stay... blah blah". If he wanted to stay he would have told his agent to shut up and would have signed the contract.
He must want more money than Everton are willing to offer.
I don't understand this "Pienaar wants to stay... blah blah". If he wanted to stay he would have told his agent to shut up and would have signed the contract.
He must want more money than Everton are willing to offer.
BRINKMANSHIP - Pienaar "we can get Champions League football" Moyes "bags of cash for my players" Agent "dangerous game as he'll levae for nowt". I recall we had this all before when we initially signed him before - Agent - "other clubs interested....."
I think Pienaar will go and Moyes has said unless someone comes with a big bag of cash he won't. Not much transfer activity as yet, sounds like EFC playing a game hoping near end of window others will get desparate and bid over the top for somebody in the last year of their contract. Agent sounds desparate at EFC's stance.
I reckon he'll go for £10m - £15 mil on deadline day (which I think is way overpriced for him with a year on his contract) and we'll get a like-for-like replacement such as Hleb come in on loan with an agreed price for subsequent transfer.
I think Pienaar will go and Moyes has said unless someone comes with a big bag of cash he won't. Not much transfer activity as yet, sounds like EFC playing a game hoping near end of window others will get desparate and bid over the top for somebody in the last year of their contract. Agent sounds desparate at EFC's stance.
I reckon he'll go for £10m - £15 mil on deadline day (which I think is way overpriced for him with a year on his contract) and we'll get a like-for-like replacement such as Hleb come in on loan with an agreed price for subsequent transfer.
I was under the impression that EFC had offered him a contract worth £60,000 a week which HE is yet to sign but the agent is suggesting this is not the case.
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Why Jay? The quote does not mention any price. For all we know, he has been offered more than £60k a week (crap wages, eh?), but that that is still not enough.
I trust the Club knows what it is doing, but as I've written God Knows how many times; either he signs or we should get rid.
There are few buyers generally in the market, but it works both ways. If we get less money than we think we should, we could equally replace with less money, too.
I'd say Donovan would defo cost £3 million less than him as he has had so less experience of top flight football - and perhaps less proven. That £3 million could upgrade our defence, or our attack or get two midfielders for one. But for Pete Sake, we should not allow him to go on a free.
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Why Jay? The quote does not mention any price. For all we know, he has been offered more than £60k a week (crap wages, eh?), but that that is still not enough.
I trust the Club knows what it is doing, but as I've written God Knows how many times; either he signs or we should get rid.
There are few buyers generally in the market, but it works both ways. If we get less money than we think we should, we could equally replace with less money, too.
I'd say Donovan would defo cost £3 million less than him as he has had so less experience of top flight football - and perhaps less proven. That £3 million could upgrade our defence, or our attack or get two midfielders for one. But for Pete Sake, we should not allow him to go on a free.
I think the agent's comments may be code for: I am getting worried now the Villa link has effectively disappeared.
I also think Pienaar needs to watch it. He is pushing the manager to the brink (not a wise move), and he also risks alienating the fans.
I also think Pienaar needs to watch it. He is pushing the manager to the brink (not a wise move), and he also risks alienating the fans.
Brian:
You can't move players on unless you're getting offers for them. People just seem to forget this conveniently when they say "then we need to move him on"... Where to? Who to? They're not knocking at the door in a panic to buy him are they? So please enlighten us with how we "move him on"?
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You have said this many times on these boards, but yet to even once explain how you know that there has been no offers. So here is your opportunity.
How do you know there have been no offers (formal or otherwise) for Pienaar?
You can't move players on unless you're getting offers for them. People just seem to forget this conveniently when they say "then we need to move him on"... Where to? Who to? They're not knocking at the door in a panic to buy him are they? So please enlighten us with how we "move him on"?
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You have said this many times on these boards, but yet to even once explain how you know that there has been no offers. So here is your opportunity.
How do you know there have been no offers (formal or otherwise) for Pienaar?
Roberto -Sorry to disagree with you but... Re: 22
How can you expect the man to prove a negative? All we've heard about Pienaar this summer has been the usual red-top bluster about him being a target for x 'bigger' club, just as we get, quite frustratingly, every year from lazy sports writers who seem to be able to get away with writing just about whatever they like and passing it off as journalism. What better reason have you to believe that there have been offers?
And on your earlier point (20) I have to disagree as well - while in my view Pienaar is the better player, he also has a year left on his contract and could well negotiate himself a free transfer within 6 months, so we're under a certain amount of pressure to sell - if we got a decent offer of say £6-8 million (and realistically I can't see it being any more than that) then I think we'd sell. I can't see how LA Galaxy/MLS are going to let Donovan go on for any less than that - I don't quite understand how their contracting system works but from what I can see they're not keen to sell and are under no pressure to do so.
How can you expect the man to prove a negative? All we've heard about Pienaar this summer has been the usual red-top bluster about him being a target for x 'bigger' club, just as we get, quite frustratingly, every year from lazy sports writers who seem to be able to get away with writing just about whatever they like and passing it off as journalism. What better reason have you to believe that there have been offers?
And on your earlier point (20) I have to disagree as well - while in my view Pienaar is the better player, he also has a year left on his contract and could well negotiate himself a free transfer within 6 months, so we're under a certain amount of pressure to sell - if we got a decent offer of say £6-8 million (and realistically I can't see it being any more than that) then I think we'd sell. I can't see how LA Galaxy/MLS are going to let Donovan go on for any less than that - I don't quite understand how their contracting system works but from what I can see they're not keen to sell and are under no pressure to do so.
Stephen
Personally I think this should have been sorted last summer, one way or the other.
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To be fair to the Club, we were a little knackered last year with injuries, so I understand their allowing him to go into a penultimate year.
But enough is enough.
Personally I think this should have been sorted last summer, one way or the other.
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To be fair to the Club, we were a little knackered last year with injuries, so I understand their allowing him to go into a penultimate year.
But enough is enough.
How about (assuming he doesn't want to say, which it doesn't look like) getting rid of him and his bloodsucking agent, and getting in Donovan?
Would cost around the same.
Would cost around the same.
Robert:
How can you expect the man to prove a negative?
_---
Brian is adamant that there are no offers. If he KNOWS that, he can explain how he knows it.
That is how!
How can you expect the man to prove a negative?
_---
Brian is adamant that there are no offers. If he KNOWS that, he can explain how he knows it.
That is how!
Roberto - fine, he cannot prove it, but equally you cannot prove that there have been any offers, nor is there any reason to assume there have been any (as above, I wouldn't consider the football gossip columns a reason to believe anything) - therefore the natural response is to assume the status quo - i.e. that there are no offers, until something happens to suggest otherwise.
A bit off topic, but Sky are reporting that West Ham have put in an offer for Yakubu. Would his freed up wages and fee give us time to bring in someone in the last few days of the window?
Roberto. Nobody can be 100% sure there have been no offers unless they're told directly from someone who works at the club and knows this to be true.
So Roberto. There have been no offers for Steven Pienaar.
In fact there have been no tentative enquiries as to whether the club would be prepared to sell him.
Make of that what you will Roberto, but beyond spelling it out for you I can't (and won't) do any more.
So Roberto. There have been no offers for Steven Pienaar.
In fact there have been no tentative enquiries as to whether the club would be prepared to sell him.
Make of that what you will Roberto, but beyond spelling it out for you I can't (and won't) do any more.
Strange how we never heard a peep from Cahill's agent, (if he has one) when sorting a deal out recently. This leaves me to believe an agent works for the player, so therefore is told to speak when spoken to. Reading the elongated statement from his blood sucker leads us to think that:
a) Pienaar has no control over his employee
b) He is just an echo for Piennar's own thoughts.
If (a) then Pienaar, sign now and sack the shit-stirring twat.
If (b) then Pienaar, ask for a move and sacrifice your % of the fee and ride off into the sunset with your shit-stirring twat.
When considering the options, watch a few World Cup re-runs of South Africa and analyse how average you seemed to be without Baines and other good players to offload a pass to.
Just a thought mate, act wisely and stay at Goodison. It's a no-brainer.
Tricky one isn't it.
Trickier than Gosling definitely.
Difficult right now to know if Pienaar's "one fucking little sneaky, greedy, judas twat" or if "you can just tell he really loves Everton,"
Suppose we'll just have to wait to see if he signs... or not.
Trickier than Gosling definitely.
Difficult right now to know if Pienaar's "one fucking little sneaky, greedy, judas twat" or if "you can just tell he really loves Everton,"
Suppose we'll just have to wait to see if he signs... or not.
"He is not the kind of person who goes knocking on the manager?s door halfway through a contract demanding more money and revised terms."
Eh? No - he's got you for that you pillock.
Sell him.
Eh? No - he's got you for that you pillock.
Sell him.
Have been very amused at news reports highlighting the greedy sods over the road and puts our one remaining issue to perspective. Kenny Hong Kong phooey was tried for embezzelment and found to be a crook who blags his way through company purchasing, then the Syrian guy who lists his business's in Canada as a Pizza delivery service and an off licence and not being that rich after all. Great news, August 31st and the bank owns the club as the debts escalate out of control. I know it's about the RS, but it's so bloody funny. Apologies TW lovers.
Why don't we just offer him a verbal/gentleman's agreement? Oh no..
Maybe it has something to do with the length of contract he has been offered. 5 years at £60,000 is much better than 2/3 years at £60,000.
Either way you look at it, it would only take him 2 weeks to pay off my mortgage instead of the 20 years that it will take me.
Now that pisses me off.
Overpaid, pre-madonnas....Grrrrrrr
Either way you look at it, it would only take him 2 weeks to pay off my mortgage instead of the 20 years that it will take me.
Now that pisses me off.
Overpaid, pre-madonnas....Grrrrrrr
Brian I think the club have to be seen as doing something about this. If he doesn't want to sign and the club don't want to offer him more then they should put him on the transfer list then clubs will know he's for sale and don't have to dick about using the press. Then we might see some bids!
Listening to the agent, you'd think the club had forgotten all about his poor(!) client.
The worst bit for me is - "You have to ask yourself, ?Does this mean Everton actually want to sell him?? But there is nothing we can do about it."
Sounds like he is starting the spin to blame the club for his client's impending exit. He knows very well we don't want to sell him. As has been said, the fee would not be that great at this stage of his contract. £5m - £10m max. 'Nothing we can do about it?' Get your pen out and sign!
I'd rather we keep him to be honest. He has become an invaluable member of this side. But if a reasonable offer comes in (which it hasn't yet Roberto), that's a judgement call for DM to make.
The worst bit for me is - "You have to ask yourself, ?Does this mean Everton actually want to sell him?? But there is nothing we can do about it."
Sounds like he is starting the spin to blame the club for his client's impending exit. He knows very well we don't want to sell him. As has been said, the fee would not be that great at this stage of his contract. £5m - £10m max. 'Nothing we can do about it?' Get your pen out and sign!
I'd rather we keep him to be honest. He has become an invaluable member of this side. But if a reasonable offer comes in (which it hasn't yet Roberto), that's a judgement call for DM to make.
Roberto,
Unless the Physio also does contract negotiations I can't see how that makes any difference.
Our negotiating position is much weakened by allowing Steven's contract to go into the last year. As stated he can now negotiate a free transfer from January.
It seems that the current Everton way is to sell one valuable player and replace with one or two that Moyesy has spotted, and by and large this is seeing us progress. For me we should be trying to progress all the way to champion's of England.
Losing very, very good footballer's on free transfers probably isn't going to help us do this, not with our current business model.
Unless the Physio also does contract negotiations I can't see how that makes any difference.
Our negotiating position is much weakened by allowing Steven's contract to go into the last year. As stated he can now negotiate a free transfer from January.
It seems that the current Everton way is to sell one valuable player and replace with one or two that Moyesy has spotted, and by and large this is seeing us progress. For me we should be trying to progress all the way to champion's of England.
Losing very, very good footballer's on free transfers probably isn't going to help us do this, not with our current business model.
Was it not said early this summer that we'd rather Pienaar left on a free than taking what we could get this summer, which probably wouldn't be much, no smoke without fire and all that, I reckon an 'understanding has been in place all summer.
We've got a load of players that either currently play in midfield or have the potential to play in midfield, when Arteta was injured Pienaar obviously enjoyed playing in the middle, I reckon that could be part of the problem with signing a new contact, he reckons he's not gonna get a chance in that position.
Personally I think there's a kind of unspoken agreement that Pienaar will stay for a year and will be using his performances in the shop window to entice new clubs. If he gets more chance in the middle this season & Everton get euro football then he can sign a new deal, if not he can leave.
Similarly Everton paid £2 million for him & if he has a shit season then Everton have no need to offer a new contract when next summer comes. If a few players had this deal going on it'd be a nightmare but as it's only Pienaar it works for both parties.
I reckon the books are being balanced and it's seen for what it is in the short term, Everton can take 3 or 4 mill because there's not much of a contact left or we can keep the services of a 12-15 mill rated player for a year when the outlay to replace him at this time wouldn't make the books tally up.
With the youth coming through & being bought on the cheap every year it's like free signings, any money we can make from good league positions, cup runs, next years CL qualification etc will mean an extra player will be available here & there but, other than that, it seems that the current squad will be kept together for as long as possible.
We've heard the 'Moyes to Villa' crack and I think it's lunacy, Davey will be here for 4 to 5 years so he's able to see if this squad lives up to potential, if it brings titles, cups & CL football then he might stay, either way I reckon he's destined for United &/or Celtic but not before he's seen Rodwell mature.
We've got a load of players that either currently play in midfield or have the potential to play in midfield, when Arteta was injured Pienaar obviously enjoyed playing in the middle, I reckon that could be part of the problem with signing a new contact, he reckons he's not gonna get a chance in that position.
Personally I think there's a kind of unspoken agreement that Pienaar will stay for a year and will be using his performances in the shop window to entice new clubs. If he gets more chance in the middle this season & Everton get euro football then he can sign a new deal, if not he can leave.
Similarly Everton paid £2 million for him & if he has a shit season then Everton have no need to offer a new contract when next summer comes. If a few players had this deal going on it'd be a nightmare but as it's only Pienaar it works for both parties.
I reckon the books are being balanced and it's seen for what it is in the short term, Everton can take 3 or 4 mill because there's not much of a contact left or we can keep the services of a 12-15 mill rated player for a year when the outlay to replace him at this time wouldn't make the books tally up.
With the youth coming through & being bought on the cheap every year it's like free signings, any money we can make from good league positions, cup runs, next years CL qualification etc will mean an extra player will be available here & there but, other than that, it seems that the current squad will be kept together for as long as possible.
We've heard the 'Moyes to Villa' crack and I think it's lunacy, Davey will be here for 4 to 5 years so he's able to see if this squad lives up to potential, if it brings titles, cups & CL football then he might stay, either way I reckon he's destined for United &/or Celtic but not before he's seen Rodwell mature.
Was it not said early this summer that we'd rather Pienaar left on a free than taking what we could get this summer, which probably wouldn't be much, no smoke without fire and all that, I reckon an 'understanding has been in place all summer.
We've got a load of players that either currently play in midfield or have the potential to play in midfield, when Arteta was injured Pienaar obviously enjoyed playing in the middle, I reckon that could be part of the problem with signing a new contact, he reckons he's not gonna get a chance in that position.
Personally I think there's a kind of unspoken agreement that Pienaar will stay for a year and will be using his performances in the shop window to entice new clubs. If he gets more chance in the middle this season & Everton get euro football then he can sign a new deal, if not he can leave.
Similarly Everton paid 2 million for him & if he has a shit season then Everton have no need to offer a new contract when next summer comes. If a few players had this deal going on it'd be a nightmare but as it's only Pienaar it works for both parties.
I reckon the books are being balanced and it's seen for what it is in the short term, Everton can take 3 or 4 mill because there's not much of a contact left or we can keep the services of a 12-15 mill rated player for a year when the outlay to replace him at this time wouldn't make the books tally up.
With the youth coming through & being bought on the cheap every year it's like free signings, any money we can make from good league positions, cup runs, next years CL qual etc will mean an extra player will be available here & there but other than that it seems that the current squad will be kept together for as long as possible.
We've heard the 'Moyes to Villa' crack and I think it's lunacy, Davey will be here for 4 to 5 years so he's able to see if this squad lives up to potential, if it brings titles, cups & CL football then he might stay, either way I reckon he's destined for United &/or Celtic but not before he's seen Rodwell mature.
We've got a load of players that either currently play in midfield or have the potential to play in midfield, when Arteta was injured Pienaar obviously enjoyed playing in the middle, I reckon that could be part of the problem with signing a new contact, he reckons he's not gonna get a chance in that position.
Personally I think there's a kind of unspoken agreement that Pienaar will stay for a year and will be using his performances in the shop window to entice new clubs. If he gets more chance in the middle this season & Everton get euro football then he can sign a new deal, if not he can leave.
Similarly Everton paid 2 million for him & if he has a shit season then Everton have no need to offer a new contract when next summer comes. If a few players had this deal going on it'd be a nightmare but as it's only Pienaar it works for both parties.
I reckon the books are being balanced and it's seen for what it is in the short term, Everton can take 3 or 4 mill because there's not much of a contact left or we can keep the services of a 12-15 mill rated player for a year when the outlay to replace him at this time wouldn't make the books tally up.
With the youth coming through & being bought on the cheap every year it's like free signings, any money we can make from good league positions, cup runs, next years CL qual etc will mean an extra player will be available here & there but other than that it seems that the current squad will be kept together for as long as possible.
We've heard the 'Moyes to Villa' crack and I think it's lunacy, Davey will be here for 4 to 5 years so he's able to see if this squad lives up to potential, if it brings titles, cups & CL football then he might stay, either way I reckon he's destined for United &/or Celtic but not before he's seen Rodwell mature.
Not really bothered if he signs or not, he'll be easily replaced. I remember the same player couldn't pass the ball to a team mate for 2 seasons, then the business of re-negotiating his contract comes up & the fucker puts in a great season......
Robert;
Roberto - fine, he cannot prove it, but equally you cannot prove that there have been any offers
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I don't need to prove anything. I have not claimed to know anything concerning offers for Pienaar. Brian has. And neither do I claim to know. And even further, I do not know.
And as is clear from Brian's subsequent response, he does not know either (though insists that this somehow means there has been no offer - utterly illogical).
So fine, none of us - it seems - knows. We are all guessing. So can you (Brian) stop this unequivocal nonsense that "there are no offers for Pienaar". You don't know that but have said it many times on several threads - calling people idiots for not having your insight.
By all means say 'there are no reported offers" - NOT at all the same thing.
The truth is very little gets out before deals are done - despite press speculation. I'd never heard of Bily before he popped up on our website last August, but apparently we'd been in talks for weeks. 'Who had wind of our going for Fellaini before it happened? It's all opaque.
But we do know some things:
1 Pienaar is a bloody good player.
2. Big or biggish clubs like to buy (and make offers for) bloody good players.
3. Pienaar has not accepted any offers. We are told that several offers have been made over the past year.
4. Most of us want him to agree a deal (that, in my case at least, Everton can afford).
5. If he does not agree a deal in the next three weeks AND we do not sell in that same time, we'll almost certainly get no more money for one of our most bankable assets.
That last bit for me would be very poor management. If he doesn't sign, his sale could get us Donovan for 4 years (and maybe a bit extra - admittedly my opinion, despite only a year on his deal). In fact I think it would be near criminal.
Roberto - fine, he cannot prove it, but equally you cannot prove that there have been any offers
-----------
I don't need to prove anything. I have not claimed to know anything concerning offers for Pienaar. Brian has. And neither do I claim to know. And even further, I do not know.
And as is clear from Brian's subsequent response, he does not know either (though insists that this somehow means there has been no offer - utterly illogical).
So fine, none of us - it seems - knows. We are all guessing. So can you (Brian) stop this unequivocal nonsense that "there are no offers for Pienaar". You don't know that but have said it many times on several threads - calling people idiots for not having your insight.
By all means say 'there are no reported offers" - NOT at all the same thing.
The truth is very little gets out before deals are done - despite press speculation. I'd never heard of Bily before he popped up on our website last August, but apparently we'd been in talks for weeks. 'Who had wind of our going for Fellaini before it happened? It's all opaque.
But we do know some things:
1 Pienaar is a bloody good player.
2. Big or biggish clubs like to buy (and make offers for) bloody good players.
3. Pienaar has not accepted any offers. We are told that several offers have been made over the past year.
4. Most of us want him to agree a deal (that, in my case at least, Everton can afford).
5. If he does not agree a deal in the next three weeks AND we do not sell in that same time, we'll almost certainly get no more money for one of our most bankable assets.
That last bit for me would be very poor management. If he doesn't sign, his sale could get us Donovan for 4 years (and maybe a bit extra - admittedly my opinion, despite only a year on his deal). In fact I think it would be near criminal.
Post no.2 Brian Williams - absolutely spot on.
So pleased to read a sensible post so early in the discussion. I thought it might reduce the number of "Davey get it sorted" "Move him on" "I can't understand it" type posts - alas it did not.
So pleased to read a sensible post so early in the discussion. I thought it might reduce the number of "Davey get it sorted" "Move him on" "I can't understand it" type posts - alas it did not.
The fact that there have been no offers is more to do with Everton's valuation of him rather than a lack of clubs wanting him. Any player's market value is only what another club is willing to pay for them. Is Lescott worth £22 million?
So when people say "get rid" maybe Everton should drop their valuation in order to at least recoup some funds rather than risk letting him go on a free.
I'm still with those, though, who think he'll stay. He can only negotiate with a club on the continent In January, not in England. I can't see Pienaar attracting interest from one of the European big teams and any other smaller team in Europe will not pay him the silly wages he's asking for. Pienaar's options are diminishing and his agent is making some final attempts to get him more money at Everton. If no-one has come in for him by the end of August, I imagine he'll accept what's already been offered to him at Everton.
So when people say "get rid" maybe Everton should drop their valuation in order to at least recoup some funds rather than risk letting him go on a free.
I'm still with those, though, who think he'll stay. He can only negotiate with a club on the continent In January, not in England. I can't see Pienaar attracting interest from one of the European big teams and any other smaller team in Europe will not pay him the silly wages he's asking for. Pienaar's options are diminishing and his agent is making some final attempts to get him more money at Everton. If no-one has come in for him by the end of August, I imagine he'll accept what's already been offered to him at Everton.
The truth on this issue is, that DM & EFC have had enough of players & agents who are & will disrupt the camp at any point in time.
DM has instructed board to abandon any offers for Pienaar (he 's perceived as a disruptive... Bellamy type player), however, they must remain quite & act as if player is wanted, but achoping that a club comeisrs in for him.
DM has instructed board to abandon any offers for Pienaar (he 's perceived as a disruptive... Bellamy type player), however, they must remain quite & act as if player is wanted, but achoping that a club comeisrs in for him.
I think Pienaar's agent is playing a dangerous game here and as such is risking his clients career. He seems to believe he has a beautifully polished gem to sell when in reality he has one of Naomi Campbell's cast offs from Charles Taylor.
I'll hazard a guess that the club have offered terms similar to those offered to Arteta, but Pienaar's agent was gambling upon Arteta leaving and as such using that as part of a bargaining chip to get even more for his client. Now that Arteta has signed, this shit bag of an agent has had the rug pulled from under him and so has to either get a quick sell for his client or eat humble pie and sign the contract. His problem though is that he thought they'd be a queue of potential buyers only too willing to take Peanuts when in reality there are none who are prepared to offer what Everton Football club have now offered.
I hope Pienaar signs up and puts an end to this unnecessary delay and then tells his agent to fuck off.
I'll hazard a guess that the club have offered terms similar to those offered to Arteta, but Pienaar's agent was gambling upon Arteta leaving and as such using that as part of a bargaining chip to get even more for his client. Now that Arteta has signed, this shit bag of an agent has had the rug pulled from under him and so has to either get a quick sell for his client or eat humble pie and sign the contract. His problem though is that he thought they'd be a queue of potential buyers only too willing to take Peanuts when in reality there are none who are prepared to offer what Everton Football club have now offered.
I hope Pienaar signs up and puts an end to this unnecessary delay and then tells his agent to fuck off.
With a 5 man midfield is he such a loss the season after next when surely Arteta, Fellaini and Rodwell are nailed on to start? If he stays then great but don't sell him unless a silly offer comes in and he is refusing to sign.
There's a little thing called professional negligence which means that an agent is unlikely to do or say anything without the authority of their client...
There seems to be an overwhelming feeling that these utterances are simply the work of the agent on his own...I would very much doubt that..
There seems to be an overwhelming feeling that these utterances are simply the work of the agent on his own...I would very much doubt that..
Roberto does Brian's post (29) not mean that he HAS been told by someone at the club that there have been no offers, or indeed 'tentative enquiries' but can't (or won't) say so explicitly?
So he does know, but can't 'prove' it.
So he does know, but can't 'prove' it.
Mike
Roberto does Brian's post (29) not mean that he HAS been told by someone at the club that there have been no offers, or indeed 'tentative enquiries' but can't (or won't) say so explicitly?
So he does know, but can't 'prove' it.
Brian wrote:
Roberto. Nobody can be 100% sure there have been no offers unless they're told directly from someone who works at the club and knows this to be true.
Where does that say: he knows? where does that say: he HAS been told by someone at the club that there have been no offers?
It doesn't. Good grief!
Roberto does Brian's post (29) not mean that he HAS been told by someone at the club that there have been no offers, or indeed 'tentative enquiries' but can't (or won't) say so explicitly?
So he does know, but can't 'prove' it.
Brian wrote:
Roberto. Nobody can be 100% sure there have been no offers unless they're told directly from someone who works at the club and knows this to be true.
Where does that say: he knows? where does that say: he HAS been told by someone at the club that there have been no offers?
It doesn't. Good grief!
I am with you on this one, Gareth. I nailed my colours to the mast last season in stating I honestly don't think it will be as devasting a loss as poeple make it out to be.
He is an extremely good player but Arteta is better, will score more and will dictate play far more than Pienaar will.
I hope he stays and signs a contract but I am not overly arsed if he does go. He loses the ball often, has a weaker shot than Osman and is a player who misplaces passes a lot.
Bilyletdinov, who is slated on here scored more goals than him and probably set up more goals in his initial 3 weeks than Pienaar did all season.
I know this sounds like a Pienaar bashing post; however I don't want it to be and I want him to be a part of our team. I just think a lot of people think he is better than he is because he took Arteta'a place as the most skillful player and we were desperate for a shinning light in the turgent crap at the start of last season.
He is an extremely good player but Arteta is better, will score more and will dictate play far more than Pienaar will.
I hope he stays and signs a contract but I am not overly arsed if he does go. He loses the ball often, has a weaker shot than Osman and is a player who misplaces passes a lot.
Bilyletdinov, who is slated on here scored more goals than him and probably set up more goals in his initial 3 weeks than Pienaar did all season.
I know this sounds like a Pienaar bashing post; however I don't want it to be and I want him to be a part of our team. I just think a lot of people think he is better than he is because he took Arteta'a place as the most skillful player and we were desperate for a shinning light in the turgent crap at the start of last season.
I think you're about right there, Tony - Pienaar has plenty to offer but doesn't always deliver as much as he could & should - perhaps that 's why his agent's trying to stir up some interest in him from potential buyers.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Pienaar the club's Player of the Season? I thought he was one of two or three players who was largely responsible for all the good football we played last season. But hey, Bily "Go Missing" can fill his boots, no problem...
I can assure you he will not be easily replaced. Not by Bily and not by Landon Donovan. They are both completely different types of player. I would love to see Donovan arrive but he would give us something entirely different to Pienaar who would be a huge miss if he is allowed to go. I think some people have allowed bitterness towards the player (no doubt brought on by the protracted contract negotiations) to cloud their judgement.
Tell the greedy over-rated bastard to either sign or fuck off....!!
IMO nowhere near the player Arteta is and therefore not worth anymore than he's alledgedly been offered.(I don't think he's even worth that...but that's my opinion)
People like Pienaar make me sick...he needs to remember where he was when we rescued his career from the toilet...Borussia Dortmund RESERVES...that's where...!!
Cheeky bastard has one half decent season and then starts making ludicrous demands on the club who saved his career from going down the crapper.
The World Cup did him no favours cos he was fuckin shite and was substituted in 2 out of 3 games..
Yes he's a good player but he ain't GREAT...!!...spends too much time throwing himself on the floor looking for free-kicks when he hasn't even been fouled. When was the last time he actually took a man on down the line and got a cross in...??
Don't get me wrong I don't want him to leave but him and his agent want to get real. The money he's been offered is fantastic so stop fucking about you greedy twat...If he wants to go to Aston Villa let him fucking go...his fucking loss I say...all this shit about Arsenal, Inter Milan et al...load of bollocks !!
IMO nowhere near the player Arteta is and therefore not worth anymore than he's alledgedly been offered.(I don't think he's even worth that...but that's my opinion)
People like Pienaar make me sick...he needs to remember where he was when we rescued his career from the toilet...Borussia Dortmund RESERVES...that's where...!!
Cheeky bastard has one half decent season and then starts making ludicrous demands on the club who saved his career from going down the crapper.
The World Cup did him no favours cos he was fuckin shite and was substituted in 2 out of 3 games..
Yes he's a good player but he ain't GREAT...!!...spends too much time throwing himself on the floor looking for free-kicks when he hasn't even been fouled. When was the last time he actually took a man on down the line and got a cross in...??
Don't get me wrong I don't want him to leave but him and his agent want to get real. The money he's been offered is fantastic so stop fucking about you greedy twat...If he wants to go to Aston Villa let him fucking go...his fucking loss I say...all this shit about Arsenal, Inter Milan et al...load of bollocks !!
Steve, not sure if that was aimed at me with regards to Bilyaletdinov; however I wasn't saying he would be Pienaar's replacement, just showing that he had a better goal ratio from the bench and probably created more goals than Pienaar too.
He is not as good as we like to think he is.
He is not as good as we like to think he is.
Steve, I don't think anybody would say Pienaar's not a good player, nor do I think any other player would be expected to perform exactly in the same style - but we will survive perfectly well without him if he leaves. I certainly feel no bitterness towards the player - these negotiations are part of the business of football, but so is performing on the field of play, therefore, I hope he soon sees sense, signs the contract & gets his head straight to focus on the season before us.
As well as Pienaar, according to Toffeewebs own stats the Yak, Victor and Vaughany are also out of contract next summer.
If we arent going to accept bids from West Ham for the Yak and if you believe the press Blackburn/Stoke for James, shouldnt we really be looking at getting these guys to re-sign as well?! If only to ensure we can command a fee with Victor and James, I suggest we put their offers in writing as well.....
If we arent going to accept bids from West Ham for the Yak and if you believe the press Blackburn/Stoke for James, shouldnt we really be looking at getting these guys to re-sign as well?! If only to ensure we can command a fee with Victor and James, I suggest we put their offers in writing as well.....
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1 Posted 10/08/2010 at 15:00:02
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"Get it sorted Davy"..........How can David Moyes sort it when the facts appear to be as follows?
1) There is a deal on the table which Pienaar has yet to sign. It's been there for some time and has been comfirmed by David Moyes himself. This puts the ball firmly in Pienaar's court. I get the impression it's a case of "There's the best deal available from the club, please feel free to sign it."
2) You can't move players on unless you're getting offers for them. People just seem to forget this conveniently when they say "then we need to move him on"... Where to? Who to? They're not knocking at the door in a panic to buy him are they? So please enlighten us with how we "move him on"?
3) Clubs aren't likely to make big offers now anyway as they know they'd pay less next season when Pienaar becomes a free agent.
The club (IMHO) can do no more than they already have. Pienaar can quite easily do nothing and then wait and speak to other clubs in January with a view to a move next season. If no clubs that interest him come in for him, THEN he may well sign the contract on offer ? providing that the offer stays there, that is. I don't think it's brinkmanship at all, it's a case of "Take it or leave it, as we've offered what we deem to be your worth!"