The Mail Bag
Arteta for England?
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Steven Gerrard has revealed he would "love" Everton counterpart Mikel Arteta to come into the England fold. He told TalkSPORT's Drive Time: "I'd certainly love nothing better than to see Mikel Arteta available for England.
"You want to play with the best players, and if it makes the England squad better, of course I'd like to see it," he went on. "I think it happens to most national teams [that they pick non-nationals], but it's up to him if he wants to make himself available. You want to play with the best players, and if it makes the England squad better, of course I'd like to see it."
Gerrard added: "Fabio Capello is the man to answer the question because he's the manager, but for me he's an excellent player."
Chris Wilson, Posted 13/08/2010 at 19:49:36
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Well, what he says makes sense... But I just can't see Arteta saying yes.
Don't do it Mikel!
Why would anyone not want to play for their birth country and proud heritage?
Add to that, Spain are the World & European champions and have some of the best players and are the best team of this current generation.
Why would he want to play for this prehistoric and overrated country. Everyone outside of this country knew England were shit before the World Cup, now even our media have to finally admit we're shit too.
Arteta may struggle to get into the Spain squad, but what an achievement it would be to finally do that, far better than playing for England, just because all our players are crap.
Why would anyone not want to play for their birth country and proud heritage?
Add to that, Spain are the World & European champions and have some of the best players and are the best team of this current generation.
Why would he want to play for this prehistoric and overrated country. Everyone outside of this country knew England were shit before the World Cup, now even our media have to finally admit we're shit too.
Arteta may struggle to get into the Spain squad, but what an achievement it would be to finally do that, far better than playing for England, just because all our players are crap.
There is no way Arteta would ever lower himself to play for the most overhyped, underachieving and arrogant football nation on earth.
Also, that RS twat is already trying to tap him up before he could get chosen to play for England.
Rooney, Lescott...
I'd rather not have Everton players playing for England anymore. They just get tapped up and get massive ego's.
Rooney, Lescott...
I'd rather not have Everton players playing for England anymore. They just get tapped up and get massive ego's.
go on Fabio- pick Mikey, make him skipper and drop the Redshite!
I was listening to this yesterday on TalkSport. I think its great that people recognise what a fine footballer he is, but I'd lose a wee bit of respect for him if he did play for England. I honestly don't think he'd ever want to play for us, and rightly so. He's a proud Spanish Evertonian, and I think he'll be rewarded with a call up to the Spanish squad soon enough.
10 mins as a sub in some friendly would mean more to him that playing regularly for England. I think England need to start producing technically gifted players, rather than pinching them from other countries. There is no doubt that Lampard, Shithouse Gerrard etc are world class.... but what England lack, is a patient playmaker that controls and dictates the play. In my lifetime, only Gazza and Scholes come close to being good enough to do that for England.
10 mins as a sub in some friendly would mean more to him that playing regularly for England. I think England need to start producing technically gifted players, rather than pinching them from other countries. There is no doubt that Lampard, Shithouse Gerrard etc are world class.... but what England lack, is a patient playmaker that controls and dictates the play. In my lifetime, only Gazza and Scholes come close to being good enough to do that for England.
Duncan ... agree with almost everything you say except the bit that "there is no doubt" ... I think there is considerable doubt that any of the English players are truly world class ... except maybe Ashley C.
Arteta has said himself and more than one occasion that he would never play for england. A nothing story
No wonder international football sucks. You don't franchise a footballer.
Almunia mentioned he might do it so I wouldn't rule it out. Don't agree with it and although I sometimes struggle to understand patriotism at times I can't understand how you could play for a country just because you've lived there for a few years. Imagine standing there singing that fucking national anthem-God save the queen - who thinks up this shit. But then you have the Basque and Catalans playing for Spain which is also a little odd.
Not a hope, Arteta is a proud basque and would never consider playing for Engerland. As stated many times above no one in their right mind would want to play for that pile of excrement, a group of over hyped prima donas, egos, thugs and serial shaggers all managed by a stubborn, clueless, blinkered geriatric.
Why does being a "proud Basque" make him less likely to choose England? Traditionally, "proud Basques" were only ever anti-Spain!
He's a Basque, so may choose to play for Scotland one day just to annoy the rest of Spain and England.
Really what is the point of international football, all that happens is that if the nations players arent good enough they adopt a "Transfer" policy, pointless.
Gavin, don't be shy. Say what you really mean!
Mike, totally agree, the rules need to be changed so that you can only play for your country of birth, and this goes for all sports not just football.
Not sure that the Irish would be too keen on that sort of rule though
Not sure that the Irish would be too keen on that sort of rule though
Steve...Legally The UK would be your Country of Birth...there doesn't appear to be such a team..
What would you do with tose born in Yugoslavia? or the USSR? or.....or......or.....someone who was born in England and brought up in Canada froman early age?
Nationality is a complex and often abstract concept..
Simple rules like 'country of birth'...often won't cut it..
What would you do with tose born in Yugoslavia? or the USSR? or.....or......or.....someone who was born in England and brought up in Canada froman early age?
Nationality is a complex and often abstract concept..
Simple rules like 'country of birth'...often won't cut it..
By the way...where was John Barnes born and Owen Hargreaves born?
Totally agree with Brian above....its a nothing story..Mikel has stated politely that he has no interest in playing for anyone other than his mothercountry and that is surely that. It is only because this no mark Gerrard has mentioned the issue that the ever fawning media have picked up on it.
Dont agree with it one bit. Wherever you are born is what country you are from, nevermind where your long lost great grandad is from. There was nothing more sickening during the world cup that watching that tit Marcel Desailly nearly whack one out every time Ghana was on, and going on about what a proud Ghanain(?) he is. He turned his back on them for France!!
Fuck off, you diving, cheating all-round fucking cunt.
Another player who won't be playing for England is Lescott ? on the bench for City today with them still trying to buy another centre back. Enjoy the "project", Joleon!
Bizarrely Jo on the bench ahead of Bellamy as well...
Bizarrely Jo on the bench ahead of Bellamy as well...
Completely agree with Steve Pugh,as Ireland's brief moments of decency on the world stage during the 90's,came at a time when they were known as "England's B Team."
Just say four Hail Mary's,point out Dublin on the map,drink a pint of Guiness down in one - and your in!!
Just say four Hail Mary's,point out Dublin on the map,drink a pint of Guiness down in one - and your in!!
Ok being nationalistic and England to win a world cup in our lifetime mode. Arteta and Rodwell flanked by Johnson and Lennon with Gerrard and Rooney forward. Oh sod it, No Fellaini.
Andy,
I agree 1000000000000%
I agree 1000000000000%
As said above, nationality is a complex concept.
If it was as simple as "country of birth", as some are statig, what woulld happen if your English mam was on holiday in China when she gave birth? Would that make you Chinese!?
Having said that, Mikel Arteta is very much a Spaniard and would love to play for Spain. Let's hope he gets the call-up he deserves.
If it was as simple as "country of birth", as some are statig, what woulld happen if your English mam was on holiday in China when she gave birth? Would that make you Chinese!?
Having said that, Mikel Arteta is very much a Spaniard and would love to play for Spain. Let's hope he gets the call-up he deserves.
Andy Codling - couldn't have put it better myself.
"Ireland's brief moments of decency on the world stage during the 90's,came at a time when they were known as "England's B Team." "
And who thought of them as" England's B Team"? The English media, that's who. Usual patronising shite. Nobody in Ireland thought of them as " England's B Team".
And "brief moments of decency on the world stage"? Forgotten about the 2002 World Cup?We've had a lot more moments of decency than the indecent football team that calls itself 'England,'who failed to even qualify for the 1994 World Cup.>
And who thought of them as" England's B Team"? The English media, that's who. Usual patronising shite. Nobody in Ireland thought of them as " England's B Team".
And "brief moments of decency on the world stage"? Forgotten about the 2002 World Cup?We've had a lot more moments of decency than the indecent football team that calls itself 'England,'who failed to even qualify for the 1994 World Cup.>
Wow.
Start a chat about Arteta then we are verbally bashing each other about our own national teams.
Can't see the point in this subject as it is quite obvious that Arteta will only play for Spain. End of - it's a bit like asking Gerrard to play for Cyprus, that's the probable equivalent of the drop Arteta would take playing for England (instead of Espana).
Start a chat about Arteta then we are verbally bashing each other about our own national teams.
Can't see the point in this subject as it is quite obvious that Arteta will only play for Spain. End of - it's a bit like asking Gerrard to play for Cyprus, that's the probable equivalent of the drop Arteta would take playing for England (instead of Espana).
Ciaran what utter rubbish. The UK is not a country, it is a collection of countries, as was the USSR and Yugoslavia. I was born in England and should only play for England.
As for Barnes and Hargreaves, they shouldn't have played for England as they were not born in England.
Brendan, how many of the great Irish teams were born in Ireland?
Ray Houghton - Scotland
John Aldridge - England
Kevin Kilbane - England
Tony Cascarino - England, Paul McGrath - England,
Andy Townsend - England
Kevin Sheedy - Wales
To me you shouldn't be able to pick and choose who you play for, and place of birth is the only concrete way of determining eligibility.
As for Barnes and Hargreaves, they shouldn't have played for England as they were not born in England.
Brendan, how many of the great Irish teams were born in Ireland?
Ray Houghton - Scotland
John Aldridge - England
Kevin Kilbane - England
Tony Cascarino - England, Paul McGrath - England,
Andy Townsend - England
Kevin Sheedy - Wales
To me you shouldn't be able to pick and choose who you play for, and place of birth is the only concrete way of determining eligibility.
2002 World Cup? Second round,wasn't it? So what?
Also,their "15 minutes of fame," on the world stage was reaching the quarter finals ONCE. And meeting The Pope.
Compared to England's 7 QF appearances,2 Semi's,1 WIN, yes - I would class it as a brief moment of decency, or "greatest moment." But it was achieved by an English manager,with goals from a Glaswegian,and a Scouser, and captained by a boy from Kent. Ridiculous.
Which is why I agree with many here regarding the nationality rule.
Also,their "15 minutes of fame," on the world stage was reaching the quarter finals ONCE. And meeting The Pope.
Compared to England's 7 QF appearances,2 Semi's,1 WIN, yes - I would class it as a brief moment of decency, or "greatest moment." But it was achieved by an English manager,with goals from a Glaswegian,and a Scouser, and captained by a boy from Kent. Ridiculous.
Which is why I agree with many here regarding the nationality rule.
Jesus Steve pugh! If you know your histoty! Paul McGrath is irish born and bred in Dublin
Steve Pugh, I have two English parents, four English grandparents and have lived in England for 95% of my life. However, it so happens that I was born in Greece.
Were I any good at football, I take it you'd have me play for Greece?
Arteta issue aside, it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest birthplace is the sole determinant of nationality.
Were I any good at football, I take it you'd have me play for Greece?
Arteta issue aside, it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest birthplace is the sole determinant of nationality.
So Paul Mc Grath, who had an Irish mother and was brought up in orphanages in Dublin, should not be considered Irish, because his birthplace was London?
Righto.
You like the "place of birth = nationality, no ifs or buts" rule because it suits England and gives them an advantage, that's all.
Thanks for demeaning our World Cup QF appearance Kevin, as if it had nothing to do with any Irishman at all. Typical English attitude, fortunately not held by all.
Righto.
You like the "place of birth = nationality, no ifs or buts" rule because it suits England and gives them an advantage, that's all.
Thanks for demeaning our World Cup QF appearance Kevin, as if it had nothing to do with any Irishman at all. Typical English attitude, fortunately not held by all.
Sorry Steve,
Ciarán's and Paul's points are valid
Bruce Rioch, Richard Gough etc...tell them they're not Scottish
My passport says nationality: British
For most of us Scousers it could say : Mongrel
Ciarán's and Paul's points are valid
Bruce Rioch, Richard Gough etc...tell them they're not Scottish
My passport says nationality: British
For most of us Scousers it could say : Mongrel
Steve - "The UK is not a country."
Much as I would like to agree with you Steve, the reality is somewhat different.
Much as I would like to agree with you Steve, the reality is somewhat different.
Steve - the name of our country is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island. England, Scotland, NI and especially Wales are not countries. Although, apart from England, each has its own decentralised assembly.
*Northern Ireland* - sorry watching us get beaten by Blackburn at the same time...
Guess that rules out Brooklyn Beckham for the mighty three lions then? I don't know what power of truth lies in all these "shoulds" but nationhood is a relatively recent human construct: All for "God and King and Law"? Wretched servility.
Eugene presumably doesn't know his own history either, as McGrath was English born. In Ealing, West London.
"Typical English attitude."
Isn't that pejorative? And therefore contradictory?
Isn't that pejorative? And therefore contradictory?
I just said 4 Hail Marys, brought up Dublin on google earth, and downed a Guiness!
Fuck me, it didn't work! I'd love to play for the Irish National team.
Seriously Kevin... c'mon man.
Fuck me, it didn't work! I'd love to play for the Irish National team.
Seriously Kevin... c'mon man.
Shane #11, if you weren't allowed to qualify for another country by residence then The All Blacks would have no players, the majority of theirs being Samoan.
Dan #21, my daughter was born in Dubai but she's not an Arab by any stretch of the imagination.
"But it was achieved by an English manager,with goals from a Glaswegian,and a Scouser, and captained by a boy from Kent. Ridiculous."
That would make England reaching the QFs of Euro 2004 and WC 2006 equally ridiculous then, as they were managed by a Swede.
Even more ridiculous is that they failed to qualify for Euro 2008 when they were managed by an Englishman, and were an indecently embarrassment at WC 2010 when they were managed by an Italian.
It would also mean that the children of the masses of Irish who emigrated to the UK during the last century, would not have the right to represent what they feel is their native country.
Ridiculous indeed.
That would make England reaching the QFs of Euro 2004 and WC 2006 equally ridiculous then, as they were managed by a Swede.
Even more ridiculous is that they failed to qualify for Euro 2008 when they were managed by an Englishman, and were an indecently embarrassment at WC 2010 when they were managed by an Italian.
It would also mean that the children of the masses of Irish who emigrated to the UK during the last century, would not have the right to represent what they feel is their native country.
Ridiculous indeed.
It's a very simple idea, Brendan.
Arteta shouldn't be eligible to play for England/Scotland simply because he's been a UK resident for 8 years.
We're talking about "flags of convenience," here. The "Plastic Paddies'," who played for Ireland did so because they weren't good enough for England. And there was such a paucity of actual Irish talent that they took on a tenuous truck-load of them to "represent," the country.
The Irish diaspora in England DOES have to right to represent this country. Stop twisting.
Arteta shouldn't be eligible to play for England/Scotland simply because he's been a UK resident for 8 years.
We're talking about "flags of convenience," here. The "Plastic Paddies'," who played for Ireland did so because they weren't good enough for England. And there was such a paucity of actual Irish talent that they took on a tenuous truck-load of them to "represent," the country.
The Irish diaspora in England DOES have to right to represent this country. Stop twisting.
Spot on there Brendan.
Place of birth has little to do with it in some cases.
I was born in Singapore to 2 English parents, I never had the desire to play for Singapore. Although I did consider it when it became apparent I'd never get a game for England.
Place of birth has little to do with it in some cases.
I was born in Singapore to 2 English parents, I never had the desire to play for Singapore. Although I did consider it when it became apparent I'd never get a game for England.
And therein lies the point, Geoff.
Ireland's finest moments on the international stage:
1990. 12 English born and raised players: Morris, McCarthy, McGrath*, Aldridge, Cascarino, Townsend, Hughton, Sheridan, D Kelly, Byrne, McLoughlin & Peyton. 2 Scots: Houghton & Slaven, and 1 Welshman: Sheedy. (15 ringers in a 22-man squad)
1994. 14 English this time! Phelan, Townsend, Aldridge, Cascarino, Sheridan, McGrath*, McLoughlin, Babb, McGoldrick, David Kelly, Alan Kelly, Kernaghan, McAteer. 2 Scots: Tommy Coyne & Ray Houghton. (16 ringers in a 22-man squad)
2002: Kiely, Kelly, O'Brien, McAteer, Holland, Kilbane, Carsley, Morrison, Reid & Connolly. (10 English in a 22-man squad).
In the interests of balance, I also refer all to the English cricket team. Spot the Englishman!! The 5-year rule is ridiculous.
* = Grew up in Ireland.
Ireland's finest moments on the international stage:
1990. 12 English born and raised players: Morris, McCarthy, McGrath*, Aldridge, Cascarino, Townsend, Hughton, Sheridan, D Kelly, Byrne, McLoughlin & Peyton. 2 Scots: Houghton & Slaven, and 1 Welshman: Sheedy. (15 ringers in a 22-man squad)
1994. 14 English this time! Phelan, Townsend, Aldridge, Cascarino, Sheridan, McGrath*, McLoughlin, Babb, McGoldrick, David Kelly, Alan Kelly, Kernaghan, McAteer. 2 Scots: Tommy Coyne & Ray Houghton. (16 ringers in a 22-man squad)
2002: Kiely, Kelly, O'Brien, McAteer, Holland, Kilbane, Carsley, Morrison, Reid & Connolly. (10 English in a 22-man squad).
In the interests of balance, I also refer all to the English cricket team. Spot the Englishman!! The 5-year rule is ridiculous.
* = Grew up in Ireland.
"The UK is not a country"
Interesting.
Interesting.
Kevin, you have to take into account that many of them, although born outside Ireland, have strong Irish heritage and probably (although I don't know for sure, maybe an Irishman can help me out there) wanted nothing more than to represent Ireland over wherever else they grew up.
Similar situation with some Bosnian players, Misimovic grew up in Germany and Pjanic could've represented, I believe, France or Luxembourg, but felt a strong tie to Bosnia.
Similar situation with some Bosnian players, Misimovic grew up in Germany and Pjanic could've represented, I believe, France or Luxembourg, but felt a strong tie to Bosnia.
No twisting here Kevin.
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
On one hand you produce a list of non-Irish born players who went to the 3 World Cups you mention, to support your case that the residency rule is 'ridiculous'.
On the other hand you say "The Irish diaspora in England DOES have to right to represent this country." Do you mean England? When I said "would not have the right to represent what they feel is their native country," I was referring to Ireland. Perhaps you mis-read what I said.
You use the fact that Ireland had an English manager in an attempt to undervalue Ireland's achievements at World Cups. You then conveniently fail to mention that England have also had foreign managers at World Cups.
Several posters have given examples of how they would not be considered English under the rules as you would have them, as they were born outside the UK. There seems to me to be an overlap in the 'residency rule' vis-a-vis Arteta's scenario, and the situation where a player chooses to play for the country of birth of his parents. As you would have it, players whose parents are of African origin, would not be able to play for that country, despite that they might feel it to be their natural country of heritage. That can't be right. It would mean that if Wayne Rooney had popped out while his parents were away for the weekend, in say Dublin, he could not represent England.
Players should not be penalised just because their parents decided to move to a bigger/wealthier country for economic reasons, as many have done over the years. They might not be good enough to play for their 'new' country, as the competition would be harder with the country having a larger population. There is nothing wrong with them then representing their 'original' country despite the fact that they were not born there, which is what happened in the Ireland scenario.
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
On one hand you produce a list of non-Irish born players who went to the 3 World Cups you mention, to support your case that the residency rule is 'ridiculous'.
On the other hand you say "The Irish diaspora in England DOES have to right to represent this country." Do you mean England? When I said "would not have the right to represent what they feel is their native country," I was referring to Ireland. Perhaps you mis-read what I said.
You use the fact that Ireland had an English manager in an attempt to undervalue Ireland's achievements at World Cups. You then conveniently fail to mention that England have also had foreign managers at World Cups.
Several posters have given examples of how they would not be considered English under the rules as you would have them, as they were born outside the UK. There seems to me to be an overlap in the 'residency rule' vis-a-vis Arteta's scenario, and the situation where a player chooses to play for the country of birth of his parents. As you would have it, players whose parents are of African origin, would not be able to play for that country, despite that they might feel it to be their natural country of heritage. That can't be right. It would mean that if Wayne Rooney had popped out while his parents were away for the weekend, in say Dublin, he could not represent England.
Players should not be penalised just because their parents decided to move to a bigger/wealthier country for economic reasons, as many have done over the years. They might not be good enough to play for their 'new' country, as the competition would be harder with the country having a larger population. There is nothing wrong with them then representing their 'original' country despite the fact that they were not born there, which is what happened in the Ireland scenario.
Arteta for England? the question should be Arteta for Everton? I know he has signed but that has people beliving we are going to win the CL next year. The fact is that, good though he is, he very often goes missing (as we just saw), more often than not hits the first man on his set-piece crosses, and is injury prone. Is this and this alone good enough to base our creative center around?
Don't get me wrong, I love him when he's on form, but honestly, how often is that?
You're not making ANY sense Brendan. This is like the scene in Father Ted where Dougal has the concept of distance explained to him. "Brendan, those cows are far away..!"
Posts 49, 47, 32 & 24 all repeat the same basic premise, and any contradiction lies solely in your head. Just so we're clear, I'll walk you through it another time:
Posts 49, 47, 32 & 24 all repeat the same basic premise, and any contradiction lies solely in your head. Just so we're clear, I'll walk you through it another time:
Although the Fifa rules may allow Arteta the right to represent a UK side, I wouldn't be in favour of it, because I couldn't class him as British. What's not to understand?
If I emigrated to the Federated States of Micronesia tomorrow, in 2015 I would be eligible to represent that country in professional football. Doesn't that strike you as ridiculous?
Also, I don't "conveniently" fail to mention that England have had foreign managers at World Cups, as managerial nationality doesn't detract from my argument. For the record, I'd always prefer an English manager... but, Owen Hargreaves aside, the PLAYERS who participated, were English.
I did in fact mis-read your point about the "children of the masses of Irish who emigrated to the UK", but simply citing that your granny once shagged an Irishman 150 years ago doesn't neccesarily make you Irish ? hence the pejorative phrase "Plastic Paddy."
"There is nothing wrong with them representing their original country." Let's take that argument further, by paleoanthropologically analysing the players mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosomes, only to find that everyone's eligible to play for Eritrea, and that every player on the planet should at least represent an East African country!
Facetiousness aside, of the 66 squad players who starred in Ireland's 90, 94 & 02 campaigns, 34 were not Irish. That's over half! Had they been good enough to play for England, with the probable exception of Houghton, McGrath and one or two others, they would have done so, so let's not kid ourselves. Since better players were chosen to wear the 3 Lions, they looked towards their lineage, instead.
Ireland has produced good players, but had it produced more, then it wouldn't need to look into the ancestral records of 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th generation Anglo-Irish players in order to put out a barely half-decent team. And in the case of Cascarino, not even bother.
So it's thanks, in part, to that predominantly ENGLISH core, that "Ireland" have had limited success. Without them, that country would have remained largely unscrutinised on the world stage.
"Your not making ANY sense Brendan.This is like the scene in Father Ted where Dougal has the concept of distance explained to him. "Brendan,those cows are far away..!""
No, I'm not making any sense to you Kevin, because you fail to understand the concept of playing for the country of your parents. Most other posters seem to disagree with you, so maybe you should take the blinkers off. And comparing me to Fr Dougal and the cows is insulting and patronising in the extreme, which is in keeping with you other comments.
I tried to make a distinction between 'residency' and 'parentage', which you obviously can't grasp. Your point about residency is a valid one. Your point about having to actually be born in the country you play for is not. It's simple. Try to understand.
No, I'm not making any sense to you Kevin, because you fail to understand the concept of playing for the country of your parents. Most other posters seem to disagree with you, so maybe you should take the blinkers off. And comparing me to Fr Dougal and the cows is insulting and patronising in the extreme, which is in keeping with you other comments.
I tried to make a distinction between 'residency' and 'parentage', which you obviously can't grasp. Your point about residency is a valid one. Your point about having to actually be born in the country you play for is not. It's simple. Try to understand.
But they only choose to play for the country of their parents when their host country deems them of inferior quality to others wanting national selection.
If Ireland wants our second-rate rejects, it's welcome to take them. But deep down surely it's a hollow "flag of convenience," isn't it?
If Ireland wants our second-rate rejects, it's welcome to take them. But deep down surely it's a hollow "flag of convenience," isn't it?
Was Kevin Sheedy a "second-rate reject" as you describe it?
Aldridge was not going to get into the England team in front of Lineker and Beardsley. What's wrong with him wanting to play for Ireland?
In other cases, the player might actually PREFER to play for the other country. Geoff cites some examples of Bosnian players in post #51.
Also Victor Anichebe. OK I know he was actually born in Nigeria and moved to Merseyside as a toddler, but that didn't make any difference under the present ruling; he could have played for Nigeria anyway because of his parentage. However, he chose to play for them because he felt a natural affiliation to that country. Under the 'you can only play for the country you were actually born in' rule that you would like, he would not have been eligible to play for England, despite having lived on Merseyside for almost his whole life. Nor could Paul McGrath ever have played for Ireland.
We took your 'second-rate rejects' as you describe them. You would be hard pressed to find a performance by the likes of Townsend or Houghton where they didn't give everything for the Ireland shirt. In fact they gave your 'first-rate rejects' a few very difficult games, famously beating them in Euro '88. Happy days.
Aldridge was not going to get into the England team in front of Lineker and Beardsley. What's wrong with him wanting to play for Ireland?
In other cases, the player might actually PREFER to play for the other country. Geoff cites some examples of Bosnian players in post #51.
Also Victor Anichebe. OK I know he was actually born in Nigeria and moved to Merseyside as a toddler, but that didn't make any difference under the present ruling; he could have played for Nigeria anyway because of his parentage. However, he chose to play for them because he felt a natural affiliation to that country. Under the 'you can only play for the country you were actually born in' rule that you would like, he would not have been eligible to play for England, despite having lived on Merseyside for almost his whole life. Nor could Paul McGrath ever have played for Ireland.
We took your 'second-rate rejects' as you describe them. You would be hard pressed to find a performance by the likes of Townsend or Houghton where they didn't give everything for the Ireland shirt. In fact they gave your 'first-rate rejects' a few very difficult games, famously beating them in Euro '88. Happy days.
"Famously beating them in Euro 88."
That's so small time.
If Victor was any good,I'd be happy for him to play for England,for the same reason I put an asterix next to McGrath.But clearly he "chose," to play for them because he'd never get within a million miles of England-and because he WAS born there.
In the case for Aldridge,what would he have done if England had come calling? Exactly. But always good to have a back-up plan..
Look,I don't have a problem with Anglo-Irish players feeling affection for their ancestral home,I just don't think someone ought to be allowed to swap their colours,and play for a country after just 5 years living there.
But the entire discussion's moot,as Arteta's on record as being uninterested anyway. I'm ready to move on..
That's so small time.
If Victor was any good,I'd be happy for him to play for England,for the same reason I put an asterix next to McGrath.But clearly he "chose," to play for them because he'd never get within a million miles of England-and because he WAS born there.
In the case for Aldridge,what would he have done if England had come calling? Exactly. But always good to have a back-up plan..
Look,I don't have a problem with Anglo-Irish players feeling affection for their ancestral home,I just don't think someone ought to be allowed to swap their colours,and play for a country after just 5 years living there.
But the entire discussion's moot,as Arteta's on record as being uninterested anyway. I'm ready to move on..
"If Victor was any good,I'd be happy for him to play for England, for the same reason I put an asterix next to McGrath."
Exactly. But he would not have been able to play for England even if he was good enough, under the rule of being able to only play for your country of birth.
England have a larger pool of players than most, and should not have the rules made to suit them, and not other smaller countries, that's the point.
But you are right about Arteta. It would not make sense to see a player who is a Basque and would clearly prefer to play for Spain, play for England. I hope he never goes near them. Time to move on.
Exactly. But he would not have been able to play for England even if he was good enough, under the rule of being able to only play for your country of birth.
England have a larger pool of players than most, and should not have the rules made to suit them, and not other smaller countries, that's the point.
But you are right about Arteta. It would not make sense to see a player who is a Basque and would clearly prefer to play for Spain, play for England. I hope he never goes near them. Time to move on.
I'm NOT advocating ONLY playing for the birth country,as in the Anichebe case. If you've lived in a country for 95% of your life ? you're eligible. Don't misrepresent my position please!
I just have an issue with the 5-year rule.
Seriously, Brendan. Are we done? Yawn...
I just have an issue with the 5-year rule.
Seriously, Brendan. Are we done? Yawn...
Kevin, if you don't have an issue with someone playing for a country they have lived 95% of their life in, but were not actually born in, then we are done. Goodnight!
Still enjoyed that Sheedy equaliser against England in Italia '90 though....
Still enjoyed that Sheedy equaliser against England in Italia '90 though....
You know, If I'm honest Brendan,I have to confess that a part of me also enjoyed it too !!
Nice one..
Nice one..
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1 Posted 14/08/2010 at 06:17:17
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