The Mail Bag
Coleman's Mistakes
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Wiser people than me have pointed out that Seamus Coleman is not ready to take over from either Hibbert or Neville because he is subject to the odd defensive lapse. I understand this.
It is perfectly understandable that people want a watertight defence and that they require a full back whose first talent is defensive capability.
Could an increasingly confused oldster ask one question? It's this: which of the current starting eleven doesn't make mistakes? Which of them has such a perfect definition of his role, that we are never exposed to a gasp of incredulity when he gives the ball away; fails to take up the right position; presents the ball to the foot of an opposing attacker?
Seamus may have an unrefined knowledge of defensive duties at present, but seems to possess something the team has lacked for too long; the offensive flair which frightens defenders. In my, perhaps unwise, estimation, attack is the best form of defence, and were it not for a Manager who is ultra-cautious, we might have within our ranks the man who could do the "Bale" role equally as well as Bale himself.
This is not an anti-Moyes rant by any means. It is simply a request for a more in-depth analysis of why Seamus should be sitting on the bench rather than owning the arses of opposition full-backs.
Mike McLean, Posted 26/08/2010 at 08:08:39
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Couldn't agree more although if he has 75% of Bale's ability then we have a wonderful player on our hands.
I'm inclined to agree with you Mike, in fact it was Saha's mistake in the middle that ended with us being exposed on Saturday.
Personally I don't see any harm in giving Coleman a role on the right side of Midfield with Hibbert backing him up.
Moyes pushed Felliani forward when he didn't think he could handle the responsibility of DM at the time and is now doing the same with Rodwell.
One things for sure: Coleman won't progress his game in the reserves, he needs to be getting regular PL action.
Personally I don't see any harm in giving Coleman a role on the right side of Midfield with Hibbert backing him up.
Moyes pushed Felliani forward when he didn't think he could handle the responsibility of DM at the time and is now doing the same with Rodwell.
One things for sure: Coleman won't progress his game in the reserves, he needs to be getting regular PL action.
I'm sorry but the "Coleman should be on the bench" issue is a load of shit. Every time he plays, we score goals and the last time I checked we are not especially good at this!
The safe 11 did a fantastic job against Blackburn and Wolves, didn't they! Boy would I like to see those kind of performances all season... NOT!
Now is a time for youth. Play Rodwell, Play Coleman, Play Gueye. Let them make mistakes and learn! I don't think we look defensively sound with Neville at right back at all. So what's to lose?!
The best way to get Bale-like performances from the boy is to slot him in at right-mid like Bale has been (only on the left of course). Got to be a better option than what's there at the moment.
You'd think Neville was some sort of defensive genuis.... Coleman for Neville? There'd be very little difference in defensive frailty.
Tony,
Agree 100% with your post. Seamus looked excellent going forward last night and was a constant threat, just like he is every time he plays. However, he also was suspect in defence a number of times leaving a lot of space open to Huddersfield. In my opinion, if he is to play at this moment in time, it has to be as a right-sided midfielder ahead of either Neville or Hibbert. I personally would not be that confident throwing him on as an out-and-out right-back at this stage of his development against the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd etc etc.
Agree 100% with your post. Seamus looked excellent going forward last night and was a constant threat, just like he is every time he plays. However, he also was suspect in defence a number of times leaving a lot of space open to Huddersfield. In my opinion, if he is to play at this moment in time, it has to be as a right-sided midfielder ahead of either Neville or Hibbert. I personally would not be that confident throwing him on as an out-and-out right-back at this stage of his development against the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd etc etc.
Firstly, even if he's not the best at defending, there are only a certain percentage of games where we should be expected to defend more than we attack. Wolves and Blackburn for example are two games where we should always be on the front foot and therefore Coleman's weakness is less likely to be exposed while his forward play is the much more needed asset.
Secondly, without starting the pro-Hibbo / anti-Hibbo arguement, to me, Coleman's defensive lapses are on a par with Hibbo anyway. Constantly caught napping with long diagonal balls from right to left.
All said, it's Neville 1, Coleman backup, Hibbo off to finish in the lower leagues, a la Naysmith.
Secondly, without starting the pro-Hibbo / anti-Hibbo arguement, to me, Coleman's defensive lapses are on a par with Hibbo anyway. Constantly caught napping with long diagonal balls from right to left.
All said, it's Neville 1, Coleman backup, Hibbo off to finish in the lower leagues, a la Naysmith.
Coleman is on the bench because Neville is a better player and he's Captain.
End of.
End of.
Surely then, using Mike's logic, we should all give Neville, Osman and Hibbert alot more slack? Let's not forget Howard, Cahill, Saha, Distin and Beckford.
If people are so quick to overlook Colemans' faults, then why not everyone else's?
If people are so quick to overlook Colemans' faults, then why not everyone else's?
Play Coleman Right Mid, Hibbo RB.
Coleman could potentially out-Bale Bale himself!!!
Coleman could potentially out-Bale Bale himself!!!
Coleman could also save us a lot of money and time playing RM, DM just needs to give him the chance there and then we can all see what impact Coleman will have playing there.
Back to Tony Bell's comparison with Gareth Bale, let us not forget that 12 months ago Spuds were trying to ship Bale to Notts Forest for 3 million quid (while they were busy gazumping us for Naughton).
And around 9 months ago, Seamus debuted off the bench and skinned the opposing left back a number of times - that LB was a certain Gareth Bale!
He has got to be worth a least a place on the bench getting 20 minutes here and there to mix things up on the right wing.
And around 9 months ago, Seamus debuted off the bench and skinned the opposing left back a number of times - that LB was a certain Gareth Bale!
He has got to be worth a least a place on the bench getting 20 minutes here and there to mix things up on the right wing.
Sorry Dick
But I have to disagree Neville is more experienced but I would not agree that makes him automatically a better footballer.
Neville's, Hibbo's and Jagielka's distribution is terrible. So what's the point of winning the ball if you automatically give it away to your opponents? We need to be more attack-minded, don't play him in midfield play Coleman at full back and let's play more of our football in the opposition's half.
He will make errors just as Neville and Hibbert do but he will offer something going forward neither of them have or will ever be capable of ? creating and scoring goals!
We have to be more positive if we are ever going to win anything... plus, I want to be entertained.
But I have to disagree Neville is more experienced but I would not agree that makes him automatically a better footballer.
Neville's, Hibbo's and Jagielka's distribution is terrible. So what's the point of winning the ball if you automatically give it away to your opponents? We need to be more attack-minded, don't play him in midfield play Coleman at full back and let's play more of our football in the opposition's half.
He will make errors just as Neville and Hibbert do but he will offer something going forward neither of them have or will ever be capable of ? creating and scoring goals!
We have to be more positive if we are ever going to win anything... plus, I want to be entertained.
Seamus Coleman should be in the starting XI to prove his worth one way or the other, either at RB or RM. End of.
Moyes got it wrong leaving Baines on the bench for almost an entire season (he's been in the team ever since) and I'm convinced the same will prove true with Coleman.
It's not IMWT 100%. He is fallible, conservative and tentative to make changes, but in this instance, he needs to grow some balls and reward a player who makes things happen every time he plays.
Moyes got it wrong leaving Baines on the bench for almost an entire season (he's been in the team ever since) and I'm convinced the same will prove true with Coleman.
It's not IMWT 100%. He is fallible, conservative and tentative to make changes, but in this instance, he needs to grow some balls and reward a player who makes things happen every time he plays.
I've not jumped on the "Coleman the Messiah," bandwagon yet, though it's gotta be said that he does impress every time!
Surely making mistakes is an essential part of development, isn't it? I would be happy to see Moyes blood him for a dozen games, at the expense of Hibbert or Neville.
Surely making mistakes is an essential part of development, isn't it? I would be happy to see Moyes blood him for a dozen games, at the expense of Hibbert or Neville.
I read a very interesting post on the NSNO forum this morning (there had to be one eventally) regarding why Coleman at RM might not work. I found that I pretty much agree with what the chap says so rather than paraphrase it and claim it as my own, I thought I'd copy and paste it here. It's by someone called Rhys:
"I dont necessarily think he is bad defensively as he was last night. I just think he is very raw, inexperienced and it would be risky to expose what could ba really big weakness in our back line. He is committed, prepared to tackle when needed and quick to get back but I do think he needs a lot of work in training to be ready to defend against good players.
Right wing? Sceptical. My worry is that it is completely different attacking as a winger to as a full back. A lot of his outstanding work last night was when the winger had the ball and played him in as their defence was square. It is perfect for him to get on the move and go for their throats as they are still turning back. Once he gets in that position he is near on unstoppable because of how quick he is, how close he keeps the ball to him and howe composed he is on the ball when in a tight position.
As a winger he wouldnt have the luxury of being played in very often, of being given the ball on the run around their box. The pressure would be on him to take the man on from a standing start, being able to work space when he has a winger and a full back on him as opposed to just one when he gets played in. That and his best attacks are almost a surprise where he catches the opposition sleeping when he bombs forward and it gives us men over on them. Suddenly giving him the ball with a two on one situation is very hard to do and completely different to what he is used to doing.
Baines for instance is excellent going forward but is awful left wing. His good attacking work is linking up and getting in behing, put him on a one on one situation even and he generally loses the ball very easily. Play him in behind one on one when all he has to do is get the ball out of his feet and cross and he is one of the best in the league at it. Now I think Coleman would have a better shot on the wing than Baines because his dribbling is far better. Maybe it is worth a go as a sub one time if our midfield isnt doing anything, such as bringing him on against Wolves instead of Ossie.
One thing is for sure, I am pretty sure Moyes will have tried him there in training to see how he does given our lack of pace in midfield and his obvious attacking talents. And if he doesnt use him there ever it is because he cant play the role.
What few mistakes Seamus made defensively have been highlighted beyond any reasonable level, he gives us what I believe is the most important thing in any football team, balance.
Imagine the criticism from these fans if he did something really naive defensively, like fail to get goal side of his man in a derby match from a corner.
Imagine the criticism from these fans if he did something really naive defensively, like fail to get goal side of his man in a derby match from a corner.
Thanks for posting that Max, very interesting and I agree with much of that.
For me, DM should be selecting Coleman against virtually any team that we have to take the game to. Sticking with Hibbert and Neville is too negative, and we need an attacking outlet down the flanks and a degree of unpredictability - any team will zoom focus on our left side as being the main threat right now.
I would be very wary about throwing him in against some teams and players who could expose his defensive flaws - a bit like how Man City took full advantage of Agger/Jovanovic on Monday night. Hibbert is very reliable in those games and I would go with him or Neville - just give Coleman the game time when we have to break teams down.
Horses for courses.
For me, DM should be selecting Coleman against virtually any team that we have to take the game to. Sticking with Hibbert and Neville is too negative, and we need an attacking outlet down the flanks and a degree of unpredictability - any team will zoom focus on our left side as being the main threat right now.
I would be very wary about throwing him in against some teams and players who could expose his defensive flaws - a bit like how Man City took full advantage of Agger/Jovanovic on Monday night. Hibbert is very reliable in those games and I would go with him or Neville - just give Coleman the game time when we have to break teams down.
Horses for courses.
Totally agree with you Max. I've played a little bit of both right back and right wing during my time (totally amateur levels of course), and have found it much more difficult at right wing due to the lack of space in front of me to run into. At right back, when the winger tucks in, it normally sucks the defence in and gives acres of space to run into which Coleman seems to excel at given his pace.
Similarly, on our left wing, the Baines/Pienaar axis works as well as Pienaar tucks in giving Baines the free lane. If Coleman goes to right wing, I do not know if he has the necessary technique and skills to do the same.
Similarly, on our left wing, the Baines/Pienaar axis works as well as Pienaar tucks in giving Baines the free lane. If Coleman goes to right wing, I do not know if he has the necessary technique and skills to do the same.
I saw him play at St James, and in the play-off final and last night confirmed my fears, defensively he`s been as bad as it gets... and none of these games were against top opposition.
Kevin (16) hits the nail on the head when he says mistakes are part of the development, but this lad has too many in him at the moment. He`s a crowd pleaser alright, but he won't get away with these lapses in the Prem and if he starts costing us points, the affection he now recieves from the Goodison faithful will be very short-lived.
It's not a question of caution. It's about nurturing the boy. He`s obviously a late developer, but that doesn't mean he can't become a great.
Softly, softly does it, stand back... give him some air!
Kevin (16) hits the nail on the head when he says mistakes are part of the development, but this lad has too many in him at the moment. He`s a crowd pleaser alright, but he won't get away with these lapses in the Prem and if he starts costing us points, the affection he now recieves from the Goodison faithful will be very short-lived.
It's not a question of caution. It's about nurturing the boy. He`s obviously a late developer, but that doesn't mean he can't become a great.
Softly, softly does it, stand back... give him some air!
Coleman or Osman for right midfield against Villa? Surely anyone can see Coleman must play in front of Hibbert. Time for the admirable Phil Neville to prepare for coaching duties.
I have said it to the point where I am boring myself but.....Seamus Coleman and Shane Duffy will be top quality players. At least give Seamus a chance. His attitude is similar to that of Phil Neville, a proper professional, but he has pace and can cross. Duffy is way done the pecking order and I wouldn't mind if he was loaned out. Heitinga and Distin should be our first choice but Shanes's chance will come next season. He is quality.Believe.
I have said it to the point where I am boring myself but.....Seamus Coleman and Shane Duffy will be top quality players. At least give Seamus a chance. His attitude is similar to that of Phil Neville, a proper professional, but he has pace and can cross. Duffy is way done the pecking order and I wouldn't mind if he was loaned out. Heitinga and Distin should be our first choice but Shanes's chance will come next season. He is quality.Believe.
Sorry, Max, but I found the cut and paste nothing more than waffle. One of today's buzz words is the clichey, "on paper". It's been said that Villa will be 'on paper' much more difficult than Huddersfield.
Problem with that is "ON PAPER" Villa should've thrashed the barcodes and look what happened there!
I also read that Cloeman started out as a midfielder. And doesn't it show.
On what I've seen so far, whose brilliant idea was it to change him into a right fullback???
The only player for us who can come close to wide right and has the skill to play well in that role is Arteta. Problem is we want him where he's at his most valuable and that's in the centre.
I say start him against Villa wide right and what the hell.
COYB
Problem with that is "ON PAPER" Villa should've thrashed the barcodes and look what happened there!
I also read that Cloeman started out as a midfielder. And doesn't it show.
On what I've seen so far, whose brilliant idea was it to change him into a right fullback???
The only player for us who can come close to wide right and has the skill to play well in that role is Arteta. Problem is we want him where he's at his most valuable and that's in the centre.
I say start him against Villa wide right and what the hell.
COYB
I agree with Dave Wilson. As much as we long to see some pace in the team, imagine the scenario: 1-0 up at Villa with 5 mins to go ball gets played across to the left and Coleman totally out of position doesn't track Young's run, who sweeps in and slots an undeserved equaliser.
Bad for us and bad for him.
Of course he must get experience but to start him away against one of our direct rivals is to put a lot of pressure on him. Moyes has kept him here to work specifically on his defending and I'm sure as the season goes on we will see more and more of him but softly, softly.
Having said all that, I reckon seeing him start against Villa would bring a smile to my face!
Bad for us and bad for him.
Of course he must get experience but to start him away against one of our direct rivals is to put a lot of pressure on him. Moyes has kept him here to work specifically on his defending and I'm sure as the season goes on we will see more and more of him but softly, softly.
Having said all that, I reckon seeing him start against Villa would bring a smile to my face!
Sam, I think the majority in the pro Coleman camp don't have any or little desire to see him start at RB.
To see Coleman wide right and seeing him track back to help out in defence, Young will be totaly eradicated.
To see Coleman wide right and seeing him track back to help out in defence, Young will be totaly eradicated.
"he won't get away with these lapses in the Prem and if he starts costing us points, the affection he now recieves from the Goodison faithful will be very short-lived."
Agree Dave, that would be my worry as well. And given the impatience and fickleness of some on here, when they turn on him it will be hero to zero.
Not what I would want for the future 1st choice Everton and Ireland right back.
Agree Dave, that would be my worry as well. And given the impatience and fickleness of some on here, when they turn on him it will be hero to zero.
Not what I would want for the future 1st choice Everton and Ireland right back.
Brendan, to go for your logic, If we don't play him now and leave it till he's learned how to play and not make any mistakes then in two seasons or so, he'll be able to play as a regular and never make any mistakes.
Now why didn't I think of that.....
COYB
Now why didn't I think of that.....
COYB
Lyndon Lloyd and Ciaran Spot on.
"Moyes got it wrong leaving Baines on the bench for almost an entire season (he's been in the team ever since) and I'm convinced the same will prove true with Coleman".
Lyndon, Baines was on the bench for so long because the lad playing left back was playing an absolute stormer, scoring goals (double figures that season) and had been picked for England playing there. Baines was a proven Premier League player whereas Coleman has played about 100 minutes.
You can imagine John Carew on Sunday rubbing his hands together if Coleman was at right back... then again he probably would with Hibbert and Neville too!
A crucial early season away game that may turn into a critical 6 pointer later on in the season is not the best time to be trying a young, up and coming Right Back at Right Wing.
If you want to see Coleman at Right Wing, then down to the training ground. Because that's exactly where an idea like that needs to be developing. It's way too early to throw Coleman in the deep end at Right Wing just yet. Imagine what a bad game in that position will do to his confidence.
If you want to see Coleman at Right Wing, then down to the training ground. Because that's exactly where an idea like that needs to be developing. It's way too early to throw Coleman in the deep end at Right Wing just yet. Imagine what a bad game in that position will do to his confidence.
Yep same thing happened with Bale.
Agree totally Mike.
Coleman's been on fire, there's no doubting about that.
But there's a difference between being on fire against Australian no-marks, Championship sides, League One sides and those ilk and fully fledged (and fully fit, not knackered at the end of a game) Premier League defenders/wingers.
I'm sure Moyes sees his level as it is, and will be bringing him on in due course. Probably as a long term replacement for Pip/Hibbert.
But there's a difference between being on fire against Australian no-marks, Championship sides, League One sides and those ilk and fully fledged (and fully fit, not knackered at the end of a game) Premier League defenders/wingers.
I'm sure Moyes sees his level as it is, and will be bringing him on in due course. Probably as a long term replacement for Pip/Hibbert.
I'm just bemused that anyone thinks Neville or Hibbert are good defenders. They are a complete waste of time. Coleman with a few flaws is infinitely better than either of those anti-football carthorses.
John (#27)
I think you're being a bit naive expecting Coleman to start games and become a world-beating right winger.
See Mike Dillon's post above (#33) for a bit of common sense.
I think you're being a bit naive expecting Coleman to start games and become a world-beating right winger.
See Mike Dillon's post above (#33) for a bit of common sense.
When has Coleman played against top opposition to prove he's good enough? Oh that's right, against Spurs when he changed the game. Haven't Spurs just qualified for the Champions League?
Brendan and Mike Dillon, all players can have a mare ? just look at Heitinga last night; it doesn't make him shite, it's just what happens... and that was a World Cup Finalist against League One opposition. Players of all calibre will make mistakes but they have to be playing to learn, the point of playing a raw talent in games and scenarios as a sub where he can potentially change the match. Or leave him to rot in the reserves getting better in his head rather than the reality of an EPL game.
Rodwell may or may not have changed the Blackburn and Wolves results, we will never know as he was kept off the field by DM; similarly, Coleman may or may not be able to change games we should be looking at taking by the scruff of the neck if we aspire to finish in a European qualification slot... yet again, we won't because DM isn't playing him or using him as a sub.
Rodwell may or may not have changed the Blackburn and Wolves results, we will never know as he was kept off the field by DM; similarly, Coleman may or may not be able to change games we should be looking at taking by the scruff of the neck if we aspire to finish in a European qualification slot... yet again, we won't because DM isn't playing him or using him as a sub.
It is this scenario that creates speculation amongst fans and supporters, using the rationale that we are not the managers and we are never going to influence who comes on the pitch we can just discuss our ideas on the web and hope that things will change.
Baines was left out in the cold for ages supposedly because he was too small.... I mentioned that lots of great fullbacks have been small and I include Kenny Sansom, Tommy Wright, Ashley Cole etc etc
I also mentioned Coleman in front of Hibbert or Neville for the same reason as Bale was moved forward at Spurs... unfortunately DM tends to nurse young players and stick with the older players out of loyalty. Fergie brought through a whole batch of young players at Man Utd years ago and was criticised by the media... youth has to have its turn and, if we are to progress, then players like Coleman and Rodwell must be played.
Players like Magaye should be on the bench and used sparingly at first.
I'm truly puzzled by some of the comments here. On the one hand, we have people claiming he lacks experience; then there is a group who think it would be too much of a risk. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you take that approach, the lad will never get a start against Premier League opposition. On the occasions he has featured against teams from the Premier League, he's acquitted himself pretty well.
Personally, I'm undecided about his defensive qualities and would much prefer him to be given a start wide right; however, as others have already pointed out, we have players who regularly feature in the starting eleven and they continue to make mistakes in just about every other game they play and yet Moyes continues to select them.
I still believe his best position is wide right. This lad is tailor made for counter attacking football. How many times have we had opportunities to do just that but failed miserably due to no outlet on the right.
For those who claim he'd be a risk whatever position he plays how on earth can you justify such claims. We've tried just about everyone but Coleman and Howard in that position. Even Arteta came in for harsh criticism
As for claims he's the new Cafu or the Messiah. I honestly do not believe anyone truly sees him in that light. Most consider him a lad with potential who at his age should be aiming to break into the starting eleven.
At the end of the day, what other options do we have wide right? Can anyone honestly say Osman or anyone else for that matter represents a better option. It's a no-brainer. You only have to watch him play to see how much he prefers playing further up the park. I believe his game is adversely affected when he has to drop back and defend.
Personally, I'm undecided about his defensive qualities and would much prefer him to be given a start wide right; however, as others have already pointed out, we have players who regularly feature in the starting eleven and they continue to make mistakes in just about every other game they play and yet Moyes continues to select them.
I still believe his best position is wide right. This lad is tailor made for counter attacking football. How many times have we had opportunities to do just that but failed miserably due to no outlet on the right.
For those who claim he'd be a risk whatever position he plays how on earth can you justify such claims. We've tried just about everyone but Coleman and Howard in that position. Even Arteta came in for harsh criticism
As for claims he's the new Cafu or the Messiah. I honestly do not believe anyone truly sees him in that light. Most consider him a lad with potential who at his age should be aiming to break into the starting eleven.
At the end of the day, what other options do we have wide right? Can anyone honestly say Osman or anyone else for that matter represents a better option. It's a no-brainer. You only have to watch him play to see how much he prefers playing further up the park. I believe his game is adversely affected when he has to drop back and defend.
Fair point, Gavin.
I for one am certainly not in favour of him languishing in the reserves. I would certainly have him on the bench, and possibly bring him on if we are chasing the game. It's a bit early to judge whether or not DM sees it like that; some people seem to be over-reacting to the selections in the two PL games so far.
I for one am certainly not in favour of him languishing in the reserves. I would certainly have him on the bench, and possibly bring him on if we are chasing the game. It's a bit early to judge whether or not DM sees it like that; some people seem to be over-reacting to the selections in the two PL games so far.
I do not necessarily think that Coleman is going to be 3rd choice RB this season. I just think that the clamour to immediately make him 1st choice at this point in the season risks him getting over-exposed by some of the PL's better left-sided players, and then the crowd turning on him as a result of a few defensive lapses.
I see him starting cup games this season and being used as an impact sub in the PL. Hopefully with 20 minutes here and there he will gain enough PL experience, and improve his defending, to become our 1st choice right-back for years to come.
And of course I hope he then does the same for Ireland.
Lyndon Lloyd ? two key differences with Baines spending "almost an entire season on the bench".
The first, that Lescott was playing out of his skin at left back at the time, if memory serves me right (open to correction if not the case).
The second is that Baines was an established, experienced Premier League player which may have something to do with him staying in the team after he got his chance. Incidentally, a lack of competition has for a year now been another reason, but that's for another day.
As an Evertonian and an Irishman, I personally would love to see Coleman given a chance for obvious reasons. As a ToffeeWeb reader, I would love to see him given a chance. if for no other reason than to end the clamour for his inclusion every time a point is dropped.
I don't necessarily agree he would be more effective at right mid as I believe playing further upfield would negate his ability to overlap from deep. I think he should be blooded sooner rather than later but Villa Park is not the place. We all have to consider the quality of opposition he has shone against. And I am including Bale at left back vs Spurs in that consideration.
The first, that Lescott was playing out of his skin at left back at the time, if memory serves me right (open to correction if not the case).
The second is that Baines was an established, experienced Premier League player which may have something to do with him staying in the team after he got his chance. Incidentally, a lack of competition has for a year now been another reason, but that's for another day.
As an Evertonian and an Irishman, I personally would love to see Coleman given a chance for obvious reasons. As a ToffeeWeb reader, I would love to see him given a chance. if for no other reason than to end the clamour for his inclusion every time a point is dropped.
I don't necessarily agree he would be more effective at right mid as I believe playing further upfield would negate his ability to overlap from deep. I think he should be blooded sooner rather than later but Villa Park is not the place. We all have to consider the quality of opposition he has shone against. And I am including Bale at left back vs Spurs in that consideration.
Trevor Lynes "Baines was left out in the cold for ages supposedly because he was too small".
I am pretty certain that Moyes was aware of Baines's height before he spent £6M on him.
Per my previous post, the form of a certain Joleon Lescott at left back was more to do with Baines not being a regular in his first season. That and his own occasional defensive frailties, but they don't get pointed out so much because his name is not Hibbert, Osman or Neville.
I am pretty certain that Moyes was aware of Baines's height before he spent £6M on him.
Per my previous post, the form of a certain Joleon Lescott at left back was more to do with Baines not being a regular in his first season. That and his own occasional defensive frailties, but they don't get pointed out so much because his name is not Hibbert, Osman or Neville.
Well all I can say is that I am in absolute total agreement with Noel above.
I would love to see Coleman given a run - and Moyes will do that at the right time. I am also not so sure that Coleman would be up for the defensive duty needed to mark Ashley Young at Villa Park this weekend.
The burning question for me this weekend is how to include both Fellaini and Rodwell into the first eleven. The only answer is to push Arteta on to the right side of midfield with Pienaar on the left and Cahil behind Louis.
I would love to see Coleman given a run - and Moyes will do that at the right time. I am also not so sure that Coleman would be up for the defensive duty needed to mark Ashley Young at Villa Park this weekend.
The burning question for me this weekend is how to include both Fellaini and Rodwell into the first eleven. The only answer is to push Arteta on to the right side of midfield with Pienaar on the left and Cahil behind Louis.
I?m inclined to be cautious with starting Coleman, but off the bench he is one of our few potential game changers. On Saturday, I think Moyes should have brought Fellaini on when we under the cosh at 1-0 as Heitinga was frequently AWOL doing a Gravesen and running round like a lunatic to little effect. Other than that, when we needed a winner, Coleman seemed an obvious choice.
Hibbo received the ball so many times wide right with acres of space ahead of him but chose to play it 10 yards inside nearly every time. We were crying out for attacking width to stretch the play and at the very least give Arteta the chance of playing a through ball, or to get in behind the full back and get a decent cross in.
As someone who always saw the value of the solid but unadventurous Earl Barrett ahead of Matt Jackson when played behind Andrei Kanchelskis, in the interests of good balance, how about Coleman at right back with Neville at right mid? Neville is our best player for filling in gaps when others bomb on and has the intelligence to create space and play simple balls down the line for Coleman to do his stuff.
Not quite a substitute for a skillful, creative, eplosive, pacy, goalscoring winger, but Andrei?s retired now so it?s a case of needs must and has to be better than throwing on Ossie to create a winner from the right against Grocks United.
Alan Clarke, again spot on. Against Spurs, he changed the game and was MotM. His reward? A loan to Blackpool... Nice.
He should be playing for two reasons.
1. We're not going to be on the back foot all season. We're now a possession team and don't need our defenders to be out and out defensive... we have a greater expectation and a different requirement nowadays.
2. We haven't got a right midfielder, but do have a player (Bily) who is dangerous when given the opportunity to cut inside, with the width provided from another source.
Play him and get the best out of both him and Bily. Resolve our obvious formation deficiencies.
To me it seems too obvious to not happen. Allied to the points above - he's earned his chance, done everything we could have asked of him and more. Let the boy loose!
1. We're not going to be on the back foot all season. We're now a possession team and don't need our defenders to be out and out defensive... we have a greater expectation and a different requirement nowadays.
2. We haven't got a right midfielder, but do have a player (Bily) who is dangerous when given the opportunity to cut inside, with the width provided from another source.
Play him and get the best out of both him and Bily. Resolve our obvious formation deficiencies.
To me it seems too obvious to not happen. Allied to the points above - he's earned his chance, done everything we could have asked of him and more. Let the boy loose!
So as a team selection it might leave Cahill, Pienaar, and Bily fighting for two attacking mid/forward positions.
Howard/Mucha
Coleman Heitinga Jagielka Baines
.................Fellaini......Rodwell
............................Arteta
......Pienaar/Bily.................Cahill
............................Saha
Howard/Mucha
Coleman Heitinga Jagielka Baines
.................Fellaini......Rodwell
............................Arteta
......Pienaar/Bily.................Cahill
............................Saha
I think that until we have a team of world beaters, Seamus is worth a place before any of the other, more established contenders for right back.
At the point where we can point to ten players and say, hand on heart, they are not susceptible to the occasional error, then we might want to look again at yer man (unless, of course, his defensive game has improved!).
I do take on board what his detractors say, but IMO, their arguments are not sufficiently strong to deny him his place.
In the meantime, to deny him a start because he has been examined with an intensity not applied the rest is to be, just in my view, rather narrow minded at the least. Of course, could easily be wrong, in which case I expect and accept that I will be burned in effigy by the kindly crew of Toffeeweb.
At the point where we can point to ten players and say, hand on heart, they are not susceptible to the occasional error, then we might want to look again at yer man (unless, of course, his defensive game has improved!).
I do take on board what his detractors say, but IMO, their arguments are not sufficiently strong to deny him his place.
In the meantime, to deny him a start because he has been examined with an intensity not applied the rest is to be, just in my view, rather narrow minded at the least. Of course, could easily be wrong, in which case I expect and accept that I will be burned in effigy by the kindly crew of Toffeeweb.
You know Ernie - I very much doubt that two right footed players who lack a few inches will be paired together at the heart of defense.
Cahil would play central behind Saha - with pienaar left... and I would move Arteta out right to accomodate Fellaini and Rodwell in the middle.
As much as I would like Coleman to start against Villa, any defensive lapses will be dealt with by Ashley Young. However, having said that, he wont get much tougher tests if he does get the nod for Sunday.
Cahil would play central behind Saha - with pienaar left... and I would move Arteta out right to accomodate Fellaini and Rodwell in the middle.
As much as I would like Coleman to start against Villa, any defensive lapses will be dealt with by Ashley Young. However, having said that, he wont get much tougher tests if he does get the nod for Sunday.
As I posted earlier Ped, Ashley Young will be at his diving best on Sunday, as they will want to bounce back from the embarrasing thrashing by The Skunks.
Whoever plays right back with probably last a halg or 60 minutes tops, as they will certainly get booked due to the diving of Young. Every person who watches football knows about Young's diving, unfortunately the dope in the middle withthe whistke is seemingly immune to the concept of cheating.
If he startes he will be booked within 10 minutes.
Whoever plays right back with probably last a halg or 60 minutes tops, as they will certainly get booked due to the diving of Young. Every person who watches football knows about Young's diving, unfortunately the dope in the middle withthe whistke is seemingly immune to the concept of cheating.
If he startes he will be booked within 10 minutes.
I like the fact that for the first time in a while we seem to be arguing about real options.
I say: Give Coleman a run out at RB for a couple of Prem games but only with Felli / Rodwell infront of him.
I say: Give Coleman a run out at RB for a couple of Prem games but only with Felli / Rodwell infront of him.
"which of the current starting eleven doesn't make mistakes?"
------------------------------------------------
Certainly not Jags... and he's touted as one of the best in England
Certainly not JH... Huddersfield anyone??
So, just play Seamus Ramos please...
------------------------------------------------
Certainly not Jags... and he's touted as one of the best in England
Certainly not JH... Huddersfield anyone??
So, just play Seamus Ramos please...
Lewis, Fellaini right midfield? sorry, but no!
The likes of Glen Johnson and Ashley Cole used to make a lot of errors but experience taught them, so they make them less often.
Give him a run, and us fans will help him by pointing out his mistakes!
Give him a run, and us fans will help him by pointing out his mistakes!
I heard the lad at Barcelona is now nicknamed Sergio Coleman.
I think we should give Coleman a run out against Villa, personally, on the right wing. Not at right back. if Young is on his game then Coleman could have a torrid time in the full-back role. I believe though that if we have Hibbert at right back and he is under instruction to look after Coleman then any mistakes he makes shouldn't cost the team.
I know Hibbert's not perfect but I think he's the right player to give Coleman the license to go forward; Hibbo was excellent against Wolves and for all his shortcomings has the experience to help Seamus out.
I think the club needs to see the opportunity it has with this lad. We could have a very good right winger on our hands without spending a penny, near enough. That's why I think we should invest some trust and time in the lad and maybe not play him in all the games but I think Villa is a chance to play him in a high-intensity, high-level game where there are weaknesses which he can take advantage of. Their left back's nothing special and Rapid scored off a break down the right last night, for example.
You never know, Coleman could have a field day if he's on his game! Rodwell is the player he is today at the tender age of 19 because Moyes gave him game time quickly. Coleman's not the same player but giving him time on the pitch in the EPL WILL improve his consistency and the mistakes WILL come in smaller numbers.
I'm not one of the people who says he has to start on Sunday, I would be happy as long as he comes off the bench if we are having trouble attacking, but I am looking to the future as well as Sunday.
Davey Thomas - comments 5 & 7 - I completely agree.
Imagine if we signed a right midfielder who put in the sort of performances Coleman has against Spurs (last season) and Huddersfield? People wouldn't shut up about it!
He's clearly got some defensive frailty and that undoubtedly needs some work. However, without wanting to sound cliched, the lad shows absolutely no fear attacking down the right and his overlapping the other night was superb to watch. Likewise vs. Tottenham and indeed Carlisle last year.
Of course the opposition needs to be taken into account but he also performed like this consistently for Blackpool last year. He has to be worth a shot at some point.
I've written a blog on this subject here (hope admins don't mind me posting the link - apologies if so): http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/another-rising-star-in-the-making-at-goodison
I don't think he'll start against Villa and indeed I'm not necessarily saying he DEFINITELY should, but at some point - even as a sub - I'd like to see him tried out on the right wing and see what he can offer.
Imagine if we signed a right midfielder who put in the sort of performances Coleman has against Spurs (last season) and Huddersfield? People wouldn't shut up about it!
He's clearly got some defensive frailty and that undoubtedly needs some work. However, without wanting to sound cliched, the lad shows absolutely no fear attacking down the right and his overlapping the other night was superb to watch. Likewise vs. Tottenham and indeed Carlisle last year.
Of course the opposition needs to be taken into account but he also performed like this consistently for Blackpool last year. He has to be worth a shot at some point.
I've written a blog on this subject here (hope admins don't mind me posting the link - apologies if so): http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/another-rising-star-in-the-making-at-goodison
I don't think he'll start against Villa and indeed I'm not necessarily saying he DEFINITELY should, but at some point - even as a sub - I'd like to see him tried out on the right wing and see what he can offer.
If he is given the RB slot and it results in us losing several games, as well as him losing his confidence will it be good?
If DM plays him against opposition where we will win even with his mistakes, or when the game is won, thus building up his ability and his confidence so that he is ready to make the step up and not lose confidence will that be better?
And why was it a mistake to leave Baines on the bench? apart from the reasons already given maybe Baines wasn't physically or mentally ready at that time and if he had started all of those games he might not have developed the way that he has. It is wrong to make accusations based on what you don't know.
If DM plays him against opposition where we will win even with his mistakes, or when the game is won, thus building up his ability and his confidence so that he is ready to make the step up and not lose confidence will that be better?
And why was it a mistake to leave Baines on the bench? apart from the reasons already given maybe Baines wasn't physically or mentally ready at that time and if he had started all of those games he might not have developed the way that he has. It is wrong to make accusations based on what you don't know.
Oh yeah, and let Coleman start on the wing for the reserves a couple of times and see how he does.
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1 Posted 26/08/2010 at 14:14:53
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Coleman's first half performance was a mix of confidence on the ball and poor defensive play. He didn't challenge for a header on the back post which Mucha palmed away well, and he lost his marker for the goal. The second half however showed his attacking qualities and he caused chaos down the right-hand side.
If Seamus could focus on his defensive game and combine that with his obvious attacking talents, we could have a real gem on our hands. My concern at the moment is that his defensive side of the game (and let's be clear, this is the baseline requirement for a full back) needs some work and this may hinder his chances of starting games this season. If he grafts and works on his defensive responsibilities we could have the best attacking full-back I will have seen in an Everton shirt (I'm 30 by the way).
I'm sure Moyesie, Neville and Hibbo also see his raw talent and are already working on this side of his game (and if they aren't, they need to) so here's hoping we have a mouth-watering right full-back on our hands and another low-price purchase who becomes a first team regular for years to come.