The Mail Bag
It Should Have Been Us!
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Although they made it predictably difficult for themselves in the first leg, last night I watched Spurs cruise into the group stage of the Champions League with mixed feelings. Great as it is to have anyone other than our neighbours entering this annual football Shangri-la, this plus-point is more than tempered by my feeling that Spurs, already in a much better financial state than us (isn?t everybody?) will now start to leave us trailing in their monied wake.
Last night I found myself actually wishing it had been the reds in that game, as at least the money they would make from the CL would be swallowed up by their massive debt burden, whereas ?Arry will probably be given bucket loads of dosh to improve an already strong team.
The points of my ramble are that IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN US, and years ago at that, and that this is the season where Moyes has finally to achieve something (4th or better or a cup) or it?s time for a change in manager.
I have always been a Moyes supporter ? not ?apologist? as some permanently downcast pessimists here would have it ? as I cannot see how anyone else could have done better up to now. Remember, he got a team that was lower mid-table at best in terms of talent into the same stage Spurs were at last night, and since then has assembled a squad that is better than any other we?ve had for twenty plus years.
I would have made the same point at the start of last season, but the decimating injuries put paid to that; however, this season everyone is fit, we?ve kept our best players (it doesn?t look like Pienaar is going now), so this is the make-or-break season for Moyes for me.
Despite our lethargic start, we all know what this squad is capable of; it?s now up to Moyes to loosen his mental shackles on the team and actually let the players express themselves on the pitch to the extent where we brush aside the likes of Blackburn or Wolves. Hopefully last night?s practice match will prove to be the jump start our season needs.
If we fail to achieve something this season, then I?m afraid the good ship Goodison will need a new captain.
COYB!!Roger Trenwith, Posted 26/08/2010 at 10:24:00
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Best of luck to them in the Champs League. Good to see another team involved rather than same-old same-old, although I wished to hell it'd been us.
It has taken Moyes 9 years to get the squad to this point, is anyone willing to wait another 9 with another manager? Can anyone else do it quicker?
Perhaps the £15-20M revenue generated might have helped us kick on a bit, but I think we need a lot more than that for Everton to further themselves. BK would have probably have given Moyes about £5M to spend with the others going on improved contracts and the rest vanished unexplained.
When Blues fans give Moyes an 'ultimatum' on where we need to finish, I can't help thinking of Charlton Athletic and how they thought Alan Curbishly had brought them as far as they could and they needed a change to press on.
You don't know what you have till it's gone I s'pose...
We've a great squad, and we have a better chance of doing something this season than any other in Moyes' reign. However, unless he jettisons his over-cautious attitude, I can see us falling short yet again.
All I want is some reward for 9 years of patience.
Everton with their incredible bad luck drew Villarreal. A very decent side who had Diego Forlan up front.
Villarreal went on to beat Benfica and Lille in the group and even Man Utd coudn't beat them recording no-score draws home and away.
In the last 16 Villarreal knocked out Rangers.
In the quarter finals they knocked out Inter Milan.
And then in the Semi Finals they narrowly lost 1-0 to Arsenal.
We get Villarreal and Spurs get Young Boys. About sums it up really.
And the really annoying thing is we only just lost to Villarreal. Amazingly Everton's team included Simon Davies, James McFadden, Kevin Kilbane and Marcus Bent.
We were losing 3-2 on aggregate and Big Dunc scored that perfectly good goal with his head. The Worlds Best Referee Pierluigi Collina for some unforgiveable reason disallowed it.
Big Duncs goal would have made it 3-3 on aggregrate and with the momentum going Everton's way who knows what could have happened.
Sadly with the goal disallowed it left Everton throwing everything at Villarreal and in the 90th minute the back door was left open and Diego Forlan scored to finish it 4-2.
But still if Big Dunc's goal had stood Everton probably wouldn't have been so desperate for a goal and I bet we would have gone into extra time.
We'll never know. But it sums up Everton's luck. First we get Villarreal then Pierluigi Collina makes probably the only mistake of his career.
And Spurs get Young Boys.
The Reds on the other hand..
Group H: ARSENAL, Shakhtar Donetsk, SC Braga, FK Partisan
Group A: Inter Milan, Werder Bremen, EVERTON, FC Twente
Group B: Lyon, Benfica, Schalke, Hapoel Tel Aviv
Group F: CHELSEA, Marseille, Spartak Moscow, MSK Zilina
Group D: FC Barcelona, Panathinaikos, FC Copenhagen, Rubin Kazan
Group G: AC Milan, Real Madrid, Ajax, Auxerre
Group C: MANCHESTER UNITED, Valencia, RANGERS, Bursaspor.
Group E: Bayern Munich, AS Roma, FC Basel, CFR Cluj
end of.
No cups or top 4 and Moyes out? Get real. Yes he is a tad defensive but he is looking to gradually introduce flowing more attacking football as the second half of last season demonstrated (a little too gradually for some but it is his aim nonetheless).
Yes, we could claim top 4, but equally we could end up similar to last year ? hope not, obviously.
Lets see where we are at Christmas... but, even if we're not looking like Champions elect, I would certainly hope Moyes is still in charge at the start of next season ? all this optimism is as a result of his management over 9 years.
I like how he conducts himself (especially by comparison to Sir Alex red-grid, TFSW, Morinho). I actually spent a lot of time arguing his case with a particular mate of mine, who had a downer on DM after about three years.
But the last three years or so has chipped away at my support of him. It always irritates to see mistakes repeated and he's been guilty of this. The standard of football and tactics, apart from the odd game, I find dull and predictable.
To those who point to Uefa/Europa 'success', I understand where you're coming from and I've enjoyed the trips as much as anyone, but (like a lot of blues my age) I just feel it's not good enough for Everton.
People say well we've got no money, who do you replace him with? It's a good question. Personally, I'd look for a lower division manager (like Moyes was) but one who favours a less defensive set up.
I've accepted that I'll never see us win a title again, What I can't accept is the idea of never seeing a thrilling Everton side again (I mean for a season ? not the occasional half).
Like you I'll never "hate" DM, and if/when he goes I will thank him for what he has done for us and wish him all the best in future (until his team plays us of course!), but after all this time I just want to see a season of decent footy and something to show for it at the end. Not too much to ask is it?
Let's throw away 9 years of painstakingly hard work, and start from scratch again, shall we ?
What a fantastic idea.
After all, there are plenty of managers out there who can build a top premier league team with next to no money, aren't there?
This young, up-and-coming manager from the lower divisions you want; how long would you give him? Because, with what David Moyes has to spend each year, any manger would need at least a couple of season to get the players they want in.
But if we don't, sacking the manager and starting again is not the answer.
The time for DM to go will be 1 of 2 scenarios:
1) He decides he's had enough of progressing this club with no money
2) He loses the backing of the vast majority of MATCH GOING Evertonians, and/or the dressing room.
Fortunately, scenario 1 is much more likely than scenario 2, despite what you read on here.
We are only really starting now, because we haven't had the squad before. It may be his 9th season, but it's year 1 of expectation. The previous 8 years have been about getting us to where we are now. Have faith.
"My point being that attacking entertaining football doesn't always get results (Arsenal)".
True, it doesn't.
So here's a question for you.
Given we know entertaining football doesn't always get results.
And given we DEFINITELY know dull, defensive, hoofball with one attacker at home doesn't always get results (so to be clear ? no type of football ALWAYS gets results).
Which type would you prefer to watch Everton play?
And by the way, Mourinho's teams might not be as easy on the eye as Ferguson's, but to hint/suggest that his tight formations won the trophies is stretching things a tad.
Yes, he plays it tighter than some, BUT with 20 world class players who don't need three touches to get the ball under control and don't hammer balls over team-mates heads every time they get it.
His title-winning sides battered many teams and played a lot more football than we do.
Or, to put it another way, his 'dull' was a LOT more exciting than our dull.
"Year 1 of expectation" GTF!
What was going down Wembley Way, 30 May 2009 if it was not Expectation?
What was all the hype in the League Cup campaign 2008 if it was not Expectation??
Not to mention League campaigns where we were (until last season) "Best of the Rest"... Arrrrrgggh!!!
Year 1 of Expectation... now I've heard everything when it comes to enabling underachievement.
I hereby crown you, Brendan O'Doherty, King of the Apologists!
You know what I mean. It's year 1 of REAL expectation; i.e. we now have the squad to achieve on ability, rather than over-achieving (as some see it) for reasons such as 'great team-spirit', 'well organised', etc.
Many (including yourself) bought into this as a reason for being truly optimistic about this coming season.
Did you just become an English lord with Land and Title?
Brendan - Your choice of Moyes leaving scenario is probably right, and my guess is it will happen in May 2011 unless we've won a pot or come 4th. As for "Year 1" - gawd you must have the patience of a religious hermit!
I went to the first leg game fully expecting Spurs to win the match easily and so did most YB (Young Boys) supporters.
YB hit the post after 2 minutes and were
3-0 up after 28. Everyone around me could hardly believe it.
Tottenham got one back before half time from a corner and as you all know ,the final result was 3-2.
However, Young Boys missed two "sitters" in the 2nd half so it could quite easily have been 4-1 or 5-1.
The "YB" trainer clearly said in the local papers that the team would play attacking football at White Hart Lane. Granted, Spurs first goal was due to naiv defending but the killer goal by Defoe was quite clearly preceded by a handball. Everyone and his dog could see it but not the ref or the other 4 officials!
My point is: Spurs would have won anyway, but such incidents as above, turn games.
Call it luck, a fix, what you will ,but Tottenham had a lot of luck getting through and Everton didn't against Villareal.
By the way, Young Boys have not had a good start to their season, just like Everton haven't but they'll both improve sooner rather than later.
I don't think it is. Everywhere he has gone he has won trophies. He has built a squad he wants, and played them his way. To put it down to the player's is naive. Remember the Real Madrid Galacticos who won nofthing?
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1 Posted 26/08/2010 at 14:26:15
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