Everton approach Spurs over restructuring Dele deal

My fear is say we get Dele to a decent standard and he has a revival; where does he fit into the team? Our midfield is full of grafters at the minute and the only position Dele could play realistically is the Doucouré role – has he ever had the work rate that suits our current system?

You can see that Danjuma has a lot of ability but isn't fancied as he doesn't press as well as McNeil, Harisson or Doucouré and our press is what's made us so effective recently. I could be wrong but, in his early days at Spurs, was Dele ever effective in a high press?

Recall how some correspondents went all teary eyed in the aftermath of that 'It's a hard knock life' interview with Gary Neville.

Props to Mr Levy, he sure sold us a pup.

Even if he gets back to playing good football, there's still a big doubt that we could afford to play him.

As it stands, we're creating chances and have settled on a line-up that's working, so I don't see a scenario in which he gets a game.

Lose or massively reduce the fee after appearances and all that changes of course.

He's out of contract the end of the season and paying any sort of fee for him now would seem money wasted unless he's doing some really remarkable things in training (which historically has not been the case as he is reputed to save his best for the matches).

Perhaps this was gamble worth taking when we signed him but it has not worked out.

If he still has any sort of hunger for the game then I think his best bet is to re-start his career away from the spotlight in the Championship or even League One or maybe a foreign league. Somewhere he can be almost guaranteed to start each week and be one of the best players, to rebuild his confidence.

I presume Everton will argue we can't afford to play Dele as we can't afford to pay £10M when he plays 20 games. But shouldn't we have done our homework before we signed Dele as I am sure people in the games not only those at Spurs knew he had an addiction.

I am sure Levy couldn't believe his luck when we offered to take Dele on a pay-to-play basis, and even more importantly remove the £100,000 plus wages off the payroll.

I have absolutely no idea if Dele can get anywhere near the form he showed for Spurs and England but, whichever way you look at it, this deal has been a disaster for Everton.

Well, look at the man who negotiated the deal on Everton's behalf! Fantastic bit of work there.

Playing will help the lad, give him a focus and help him regain his confidence.

Levy will definitely go for it if Everton say to him “We aren't going to play him in 7 more games if we have to pay you £10M but we will give you £5M now instead.”

If Levy doesn't renegotiate the deal, then be won't see a penny anyway as we don't have £10M – let alone for a player who could leave for free at the end of the season.

So it'd probably be in his interest to come to some agreement on the off-chance Dele did rekindle some sort of form that they got some money for him.

I don't buy into this notion that he's fit and we won't play him because we can't afford the fee - if we renegotiate on a deal worth potentially millions of pounds, do you really think Spurs won't want proof he's unfit or just that we're hanging it out to save us millions? Come off it, Spurs and Levy weren't born yesterday, and they'll do their due diligence. Anything else is a flight of fancy, and pretty much conspiracy theorist stuff.

I'm one of the seemingly few fans of Dele – I've always thought he's a hugely talented footballer and if he can come good at Everton it would be a real coup. Yeah, it might seem far off, but given the chance of a fit and healthy Dele playing at our club?

It seems both Dyche, the club and me are at least on the same page, even if most posting on ToffeeWeb have written him off with their expert behind-the-scenes insight and medical knowledge!

He is so talented though that all parties need to come to some sort of agreement whereby they can find a solution to give him a chance.

You say, if Levy has a thread of humanity, he would do what's best for the player. Shouldn't we also ask questions of the player who is getting around £5.7M a year from Everton?

He needs help but, unlike many, he has the money to get the best help available. Like all addicts, they become very good at hiding their addiction, but shouldn't the blood tests at the medical have showed up his addiction?

Those less convinced by him don't need 'behind-the-scenes insight'; they just need to look at his record on the pitch. In the last 3½ years he's managed about 2000 minutes for Spurs, Everton and Besiktas with only 3 goals and 2 assists (not including some easy Europa League games in 2020).

You have to go all the way back to 2017-18 for his last really barnstorming season (though he did okay in 2019-20). It's been a while since he demonstrated his talent with any sort of consistency.

“He's not played him for a single minute yet. He's said some supportive things in the media as any half-decent manager would but if he had your belief in Alli we'd be seeing him on the pitch.”

I might be wrong but I feel sure Alli was over in Turkey when Dyche was appointed and then came back injured and has been out injured since. Bit difficult for Dyche to play him under those circumstances.

I think I've seen it reported that he's now recovered from injury though there was talk of another setback. Difficult to know the exact truth of things.

My point stands I believe though in that we won't know that Dyche has any genuine faith in him till he starts to play him. Of course it's not just physical injuries that he is dealing with which is why I suspect we will not see him much again in an Everton shirt.

Yes, he has been injured and remember he went out on loan which somehow suggests he was not favoured at Goodison.

Somehow when he is fully fit, I doubt he will be rated by Dyche much like one or two other ''benchwarmers''.

Therefore, it won't have escaped Mr Levy's notice that there exists a bit of a “love affair” going on between Messrs Alli and Pochettino, particularly since the latter's been installed at Chelsea, and given our previous naivety, why would he roll over and renegotiate terms, when the current problem is ours, and he could still ultimately get his money from Chelsea?

Because, if we continue to fund both Mr Alli's physical and mental rehab, to a point where he's both fit and with his head in the right space, then Mr Levy would gladly play cupid for the two lovebirds and reunite them without having to give up a cent?

Too many good players never make it, Think of our own Billy Kenny and City's Paul Lake and Man Utd's kid (whose name escapes me).

I wish you luck, Dele.

We are contracted to pay his wages until the end of the season. I don't see any downside to the proposed renegotiation with Spurs as long as it does not require an up-front payment.

2. I understand his contract expires at the end of the season. What happens with the Spurs part of the agreement then?

Can anyone explain what will happen if we extend his contract and he reaches his 20 appearance on his new contract in next season? Do we still have to pay the £10 million or is it only the number of games in the current contract ending this season that counts?

My personal opinion is, if a player has been out of Premier League action for a number of years and in fact has hardly played at all, it would be nigh on impossible to get back to the required fitness level both physically and mentally.

I would just like to know, when he gets to the end of his contract, what obligation we have towards him and/or Spurs?

Gana and Doucoure will be away for a minimum of three weeks, leaving us with Garner, Onana and Gomes to play in the middle of the park across the League, the FA Cup and hopefully (still!) the League Cup. Even playing 3 at the back requires 2 central midfieders.

I know they're young, but we cannot rely on them staying fit and firing after a busy Christmas.

Unless Dyche has a plan to put someone else in the middle of the park (McNeil or a youngster), or Gomes somehow goes back 3 years, or Thelwell recruits incredibly early in January – we might need Dele.

It has been reported on here that Doucouré has given up on playing for Mali in the Africa Cup of Nations.

Eric #24. I do hope you've just structured your post badly and are not suggesting that the "root cause" for Dele's problem/s (certainly his mental health ones) were self-inflicted?

Dyche says very clearly in the article above that Dele Alli is injured and not close to returning because of a setback in his recovery. His physical recovery.

Why don't you believe him?

Saturday 23 September 2023. 13:00

Everton midfielder Abdoulaye Doucouré has revealed he will not be representing Mali for the foreseeable future as he wants to focus on his club career.

The France youth international switched allegiances to Mali in March 2022 and made his debut against Tunisia in the 2022 World Cup qualifying play-offs. Doucoure has only earned two caps for the Eagles and looks unlikely to feature at the 2023 Africa Cup of Nations after not playing at all during the qualifying campaign.

The 30-year-old has now explained the reasons for his absence, citing incidents that didn't sit well with him during his time with the national team for the crunch double-header against the Eagles of Carthage last year.

“Today I took a little break regarding the national team because there were a few incidents when I was there for the World Cup qualification. There are quite a few things that I didn't like,” he said.

“I am not asking for revolutionary things. I can't judge too much, but for my part, when I went, it wasn't an unforgettable memory. I really came with the aim of helping the team and I didn't necessarily feel that way when I was there.

“I'm 30, I have to take care of my body and not hurt myself. I have had two serious injuries in my career, so I will be careful not to have a third. I have my contractual situation with Everton. I only have one year left on my contract, it's a bit complicated for me.

“Today, I am thinking about whether I am going to return to the selection or not. I communicated it to the leaders, they know my position. I asked them for time to think and, during September, I will decide whether I wish to continue with the national team or not.”

There has been no further news on the topic, and since Doucouré hasn't said a word since, it seems safe to assume that he won't be going to Afcon.

It's a football club – not a clinic. We've already set him up financially.

Perhaps I'm missing something here but, last time I looked, substance and alcohol abuse is a personal choice???

People have observed that he doesn't bust a gut. That might be a perception of him because he did used to stroll through games at Spurs or for England but then come alive just outside or inside the box.

I could see him being a great asset playing off Dominic and popping up in and around him. Fingers crossed as Dyche has done a good job with Dominic and can hopefully do similar with Dele.

Yes, you are missing something.

The root cause of his problems, including turning to substance abuse and alcohol abuse, was suffering sexual abuse as a child.

For fuck's sake, man, you said in your original post you're not without compassion. If that's true, you must just be fucking clueless.

Didn't Dele play for years without being unfit through drink & drugs? When he took the medical, surely blood tests would have shown whether or not his system contained illegal substances, and wouldn't it have been courtesy to tell his potential employers that he had a problem?

With the money he has, the services of a top psychologist would have been more worthwhile than wasting it all on flash cars and dealers, and while I'd love to see him playing well for us, I get the feeling we've been conned.

And we weren't conned either. It's not like he approached us begging for a move. In full knowledge of his form and lifestyle issues, we approached him and offered him the money. We were just thick and vain as usual.

If you do want your money's worth from Alli, then you'd better hope the club are handling him with a bit more compassion.

In answer to Mick's question, I would say yes, there was most definitely a need for that abuse.

I bow to your professional expertise and your ability to diagnose deep and complex psychological issues remotely from a forum on a football fans' website, to the point of identifying its root cause.

From someone who's had to help someone close to them deal with their ongoing mental health issues for many years, I'm full of admiration for someone with such instant insight into the “root cause” of a perfect stranger's problems?

As for being clueless, you're absolutely right, because even after all these years of therapy and expert help, we still don't understand why? It's an ongoing process for this individual just maintaining a level of stability, and his problems are not a personal choice, unlike D&A, and as for identifying a root cause, our experience has taught us it's not a concept that applies to conditions such as this, because it doesn't follow the traditional medical process of ailment, diagnosis, prognosis, treatment and cure.

But I take my hat off to you, and hope Dele Alli benefits from your intervention.

I made that choice many years ago. I decided that I would go down the addiction road and what fucking fun it was. I sat down, had a good think, and decided to ruin the lives of my parents, children, friends and anyone who offered me a hand of friendship.

Then, as someone on this site said, I got the lucky touch, that wee moment that turned it all round. Someone believed.

Thirty years later, still posting!

It's not something you can shake off and there's no "cure" for it either; you (the individual) can learn to function again with intensive therapies but the trauma which often comes with physical and mental abuse will always be there.

I let this thread run before posting this and find a number of posters have no clue what the poor lad may have been through and is possibly still going through.

To all who suffer with these addictions it shows you can reverse a desperate and dire stuck-in-the-mud way of life.

And yes again, some folk can indeed invent psychological behaviours to their own perceived advantage.

But on a thread about mental illness though one thing for certain, in my opinion, is that just about every poster on TW "suffers" a life-long addiction, without hope of a cure whilst still participating!

Years later, one is battling alcoholism and all its associations. The other, not at all.

The addict didn't make a considered decision to be an addict, and likely didn't even begin drinking with any conscious thought of self-medication.

The other has enjoyed alcohol for all their adult life. Never was there a point when they needed to take a strong, sensible or moral stance, it never crossed their mind. Moderate drinking was simply a pleasant, optional activity. Their memories of past troubles are a separate entity.

Some people are an addict waiting to happen. It takes just the right (wrong) circumstance to start, and it can happen fast. It can also happen absent any form of strife whatsoever. Others are essentially immune to addiction. Most fall in the big group in the middle – like people of average height.

A bad life doesn't help, and a good life doesn't prevent. It's a lottery really.

I hope you never find yourself in such a dark and dreadful place to be told "Well, it was your choice."

Andy Crooks. You're a shining example, mate. Long may it continue! 💙

When I read the other posts, I immediately thought of you and my brother. Both of you have come through incredibly difficult mental health issues and lived to tell the story. I have the utmost respect for both of you.

Will #51,

That is a very good post that hits the nail on the head as I can testify from very personal experience.

If there is mental illness or substance abuse in your family -- as there was in Dele's mother and possibly his father -- you are exponentially more vulnerable to developing similar problems, even under circumstances where others would not.

Just one hit of a drug can trigger the compulsion that leads to addiction. Just one.

People blame Mourinho but forget Alli had been dropped by Pochettino before he came on the scene as his form had dropped off a cliff after the Champions League Final. I think the Poch fondness mentioned earlier in the thread is at this point about Dele the person as opposed to the player.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but that is just my perspective on it sadly.

Good on you both for speaking up from your own personal and family experiences. It's not an easy thing to do. More so now I suppose than 20 years ago.

But, as we see in this thread, there's still people applying stigma and I'd wager a handful of others who've either personally or through family experienced the same as you but aren't comfortable speaking up at this point or in this venue.

The selfish one is, he may just become a player who will be a great benefit to our club, and that on its own is good enough for me.

The other reason is, even if that football side doesn't work for him (and us), our club is giving him a chance to get his life back. Giving him the chance to potentially help many more lads who are travelling along the same road, and getting ruined along the way.

This toxic mixture of sexual abuse as a kid, and seeking a way out with drugs or alcohol, or both! is not uncommon with girls as well. These kids have their lives ruined and a fair proportion don't recover from it. At the very least, Dele may well be able to pass on hope to very, many people (not just youngsters!). Everton run a mental health clinic in our HuB, can't we help one of our own?

Now back to the selfish reason. There's a number of posters on here who appear to have written off his chances of returning to first-class football, and appear to think it's a waste of time even giving him a route back.

Well, I think our management believe it's worth giving him a chance and they are going to Spurs to see if that's possible. My view is we've wasted hundreds of millions on players who weren't good enough in the first place. I supoort our management if they believe there's a chance of getting a top class player rehabilitated.

Good luck to the lad... and our club.

I googled Dele having picked up on a comment by Kieran about Dele being dropped by Pochettino and found this reasonably interesting article from October 2019. I am sure there's an element of truth in some of the comments.

Tottenham star Dele Alli benched by Mauricio Pochettino for Brighton clash as nightmare week continues

If I was the manager, I would get some of the players not involved with the squad for various reasons to attend matches, especially home games to make them feel they are part of the club. I am sure these players would get a warm welcome from most fans.

It's very interesting what's in the link you've inserted.In season 16/17 he gets 22 goals and 9 assists; in 17/18 he ONLY got 14. In 18/19 he got 7 and 19/20 he got none.

Bloody Hell! What a coincidence and brought his best mate, same age, in as agent! Then he gets a commercial outfit going to do all kinds of off field activities.

I would see that as a major factor of him going off on a tangent and bringing on his troubles. Perhaps even bringing right to the front of his mind, all the things that happened to him as a youngster, that he might have successfully pushed to the back of his mind.Yep, I definitely think it's worth Everton's time, to give him a chance.

I also think that's a good point you make about players not in 1st team squad, coming to reserve matches (or whatever they're called now!)

As for his move to Everton. . Sigh.
It is no surprise it is a shambles and mess. We all know who was involved and that is enough on the matter. We are where we are.

Levy is NEVER going to renegotiate himself out of this. I would be staggered if he turned human just for a moment.
He is a self centred self absorbed money man.
Look at it from his point of view.
He has no financial burden at present.
His international class player has suffered a major breakdown both on and off the pitch and he moved him and that burden on.
He was offered a stupidly ridiculous deal to take him off his hands. In which he either makes a fortune for a valueless player no one wants or he gets him back having had no cost to himself. Bonuses probably being better fitness and experience.
This has then taken a major positive turn. The route cause of the players issues has been identified and the club he is at is treating him at some expense to help him recover because morally (to them) it is the right thing to do.
A deals a deal and Levy never loses

The ex Liverpool striker was in the same boat (Paul...i cant for the life of me remember his surname).

Once he had reached the peak of his career there was nothing left to achieve, no focus, no distraction from the pain he was obviously suffering internally.

that is when the self medication or addiction as some call it comes into play.

I assume that Dyche could well be on the same page as me from the fact the club are looking to renegotiate the deal. Hence why we're having this conversation.

Surely that tells us that Thelwell, Dyche, Woan, Stone, and the hierarchy of the club in general are looking to rehabilitate the player, no? Thus Dyche has faith he'll get fit and be able to play = same page.

James (66) that's how I see it too. Our management team think it's worth a try. So lets hope things work out for him and us.

Now I'm off the match

Firstly, to those who say "Why would Levy negotiate?" Well, because as a businessman, he'd rather get some beans rather than no beans; it's clear we are not going to trigger that clause. I don't expect Levy to do it for the right reasons.

I am a romantic, especially when it comes to football, and would love for Dele to have a chance to return to some form with us, to repay the love as it where. It would be some turnaround.

I have written about his troubles on here several times from my perspective as a trauma therapist; there are numerous huge hurdles for him to jump over to make it for us.

Even if he has managed to kick the prescription drugs and numbing coping strategies, that is one thing. Another is having engaged in the right therapy to process all that has happened to him. I hope this is the case but people don't always get the right advice in this regard sadly.

Anyway, I will watch what happens to Dele with great interest and I will root for him regardless of what shirt he wears because the lad has had it tough. My word though, wouldn't it be something to change the deal and for him to start popping up with winners?

It will be a while before Dele Alli will be fit to play football by all accounts, but then it obvious that he is not worth the fee agreed and he is not worth the wages he is on.

Everton are not in control of the situation.They are dependent on the player who may or may not be bothered whether he plays and the Chairman of the selling Club who did well in off loading him to Everton, knowing the situation and having the neck to have a bonus written into the deal.Which was agreed by Everton parties.

It will be interesting to see what happens.But don't hold your breath hoping for process sooner rather than later.

If (hopefully) we are safe by then, it would be possible to give him half a dozen games until the end of the season and give him the chance to prove himself either to earn a new contract or find a new club.

lol, we should be sending them a solicitors letter requesting a full refund.

I can't believe we were suckered into buying him. Levy must be pissing himself laughing that he will be earning more money off Everton for what was basically a fraudulent transfer. I wonder how much of a back hander old spiv sly arse Redknapp made of the suggestion that we should buy him. Give him back to Spurs as an early Christmas present.

We are a top club for our charity work, no fkg wonder with this charitable gesture to old Levy Scrooge.

Mal 74, well said son.