Embarrassing Blues serve up familiar away-day shocker

It would be foolish to appoint anyone before the takeover. I imagine that Friedkin and co will make that clear. The short term answer has to be someone from within who knows something about the current "playing" staff. It is clear that Dyche has lost the players and the plot. A fresh face, whether it be Leighton or Tate, or whoever, will, if nothing else, give us a lift. It will energise the support. It can only be positive. And what is there to lose? If Dyche is still in charge on Wednesday, we will not win and we will probably be battered next Saturday.

He must be gone before I wake up tomorrow ( and that will probably be at about 4 a.m.) I want to watch on Wednesday with some renewed hope. I don't want to ever hear any more Dyche drivel and pathetic excuses. If there is anyone on TW, or any other site, who thinks he should remain, then please say so and explain why. All he currently brings to our club is grief and misery and whilst the players do have to bear some responsibility, there is not a worse and more pathetic mismanaged and clueless team currently in the Premiership. The only way Dyche can earn any respect now would be to go voluntarily. He won't.

They'll keep Dyche and wheel out Coleman on Tuesday morning to read his warcry of it won't happen again, all the usual bollox.

Sick of the club completely.

Every other club can lose players lose managers and keep getting it right.

Why why why why why do we keep getting it wrong??

This crisis has been brewing since before we kicked a ball in the Premiership. Pre season was a shit show and the season is.

True to form the club is in limbo and seem unable to appoint a sensible caretaker manager.

If they can't sack Dyche Thelwell needs to at least give Dyche a roasting, he might then just resign!

If Dyche is still in charge against Wolves, that is a must win game in our current run of games, and with the shit show today, we will be lucky to get anything from that game.

We are rudderless with an uninterested owner, who has no interest in sacking Dyche because he will leave that decision to any new owners…..if that ever happens?

Dyche needs to fall on his own sword as no one will have the guts to sack him.

Roll on the take over being completed PLEASE?????

Danjuma, another attack minded player that was never given a fair run in the side yet we were gaslighted by the manager into believing he was good enough, how do we know? We never saw him play a run of games.

The crass errors by Branthwaite and Tarkowski were shocking. Having run forward for the first time in the game Ashley Young’s cross was pathetic, leaving the team unable yet again to prevent a counterattack. Why did none of our defenders think it might be prudent to mark their main striker, Rashford, on the edge of the area?

The tide of events is now overwhelming Dyche. I still hope he can turn it around because the chances of finding a manager who can do so with this group of players are slim.

I don’t think there is a chance of City getting points deductions tbh

As many have said, we have a disturbing run of fixtures coming up. We can't afford many more of these because, being useless at attacking, we could be cut off from the pack.

He's blamed the players for today and I respect that as some of this lot have been bottle jobs and got numerous coaches fired.

But what is going on in the dressing room? Why are certain players in and out of the starting eleven? How does Doucoure keep getting game time? Where is Dele Alli?

His stock with the fanbase is falling fast and they are sympathetic because they've seen this movie before and know the players are prone to errors and downing tools. But the hope is going and the fans have nothing to cheer for. Dyche needs to get something that shows improvement, be it a few more goals or an ugly home win.

I can’t believe how much we have regressed but with the players already lacking belief offensively, then this was the last thing we needed today.

The man needs to go simple!!!!

Maybe he's just trying to convince himself.

The defence is left wide open on plenty of opposition attacks because Dyche insists on playing only two central midfielders and both go forward together too often, causing big gaps between the defence and the rest of the team.

It's obvious to a lot of fans he needs to play three in central midfield to bolt the attack and midfield, maybe four on Saturday to keep the score down.

Wolves is the game where we need the points and have a chance of repairing the damage of the last few weeks by scoring some goals.

Can we petition Dan Friedkin in some way?

Dyche is praying to be sacked so he can have a nice Christmas off with his millions still being paid until the end of the season, and can then say he kept Everton up for two seasons in ‘impossible' circumstances.

Dyche did not play an ultra-defensive shape. He went gung-ho, à la Chelsea and Bournemouth. He played Beto and Doucoure, both cannot hold the ball. No Managla to provide cover and hold the ball like the previous match.

Mykolenko was encouraged to get forward as an inverted winger, but spent most of the time marked on the wing.Even Young pushed up, leaving two central defenders. When Mykolenko pushed up, Branthwaite covered the right back and Pickford became a central defender. I kid you not.

McNeil, Mykolenko and Young lost the ball 11, 7 and 9 times respectively, a combination of pressure on Mykolenko and long passes from the other two. I don't think Mykolenko placed one tackle all game.

Everton were wide open to the Man Utd trademark attack. Box-to-box Doucoure did not track back.

Dyche's tactics set Everton up like a turkey for Man Utd. When I saw the selection, I asked "No Gung-ho, please, Sean" – only to see him ignore the previous disasters and repeat them today.

Why oh why did he change his tactics? Plain stupid.

Show some fucking management, Dyche, and at least attempt to sort this shower out before you get your marching orders.

Last season, Doucouré only worked in a midfield 3 with him as the man behind the striker. So go back to that. Shift McNeil out to lefte-wing again and put Ndiaye on the right-wing. Play Gana and Mangala as 2 holding midfielders to give our creaking defence some solidity in front of it.

Either that or don't play Doucoure. That simple. Offers nothing of value in a 2.

And what the hell has happened to us at set pieces? Last year we got a lot of goals from set pieces yet this year I can barely think of one. What “coaching” are they doing at Finch Farm.

The Friedkin Group takeover needs sorting ASAP so that this mess can start to be sorted out. Until it does we are left with a manager who knows he's gone and is only here until it happens, nearly half of our first team squad out of contract in the next 6-18 months, and us playing with zero confidence or ideas.

It's going to be a long old December at this rate and god knows what Liverpool may do to us in the derby. They could run up a cricket score at this rate…

With Mangala instead of Doucoure in midfield and Calvert-Lewin up top, the game would have been tighter and given us a better chance of something.

Patterson on the right would have been a good change.

I understand the position we are in, but it's like playing Russian Roulette and, sooner or later, we will be in the trap door position… possibly bottom.

I truly believe a better manager can sort this bunch out, but this week is now massive for our players; turn up and win and we have some hope, but capitulate again and it could get messy.

My expectations are high, but it has to be that way. On the pitch… who knows? Dyche's record is really poor now, we do have a few decent players but they need to step up and put in a performance now and again.

If Dyche is obsessed with stats and data, then he must know he's likely to be our worst ever manager if things don't improve.

But this dinosaur of a manager that is currently in charge of Everton Football Club (I can't even bring myself around to say his name) has totally knocked the enjoyment out of going the game and being a once-proud Evertonian.

I won't be attending the next 2 home games due to work commitments. Thank fuck for that. Totally pissed off.

Dyche defends his beloved "V" but we rarely keep clean sheets and can't score.

The players look lost and bedraggled. That non-challenge from Tarkowski today was ridiculous.

The midfield have no bite, the flanks no pace nor clue and the less said about the front men the better.

Dyche has been referring to the fact we've had these problems for many years. No, really? He's done nothing to fix them that I can see...

Evertonians have been saying it but this is looking more and more like someone knowing he's in his last and only big job and willing to get that last big pay day.

To be realistic, it is going to a be massive re-building job taking a minimum 3 years.

Everton and Tranmere Rovers for relegation.

At 85 I am not sure I will see the Blues playing in the Premier League again.

Almost makes me yearn for the days when we could visit Old Trafford and come away with a disappointing 2-1 defeat.

Patterson on the right definitely would have been a good change. Mykolenko has always been a bit ropey when in position as a defender, but he was under instructions to get forward.

The second goal pointed to the problem. Mykolenko on the touchline beyond the midfield line marked, Ndiaye attacking, but with back to goal and stationary and Pickford with the ball close to the midfield line.

The defender behind a flat-footed Ndiaye was able to the read the game. Everton wide open with one foot in on Ndlaye receiving the ball. This was all clearly on instructions.

Yes, I did know the outcome, but it was in disbelief that I watched what unfolded. Dyche made errors of judgement all over the pitch, particularly abandoning defensive shape.

Dyche's idea of attack is to throw most of the team forward to score, abandoning defence… or defending deep in numbers and abandoning attack. There is no method, style or adjustment.

In the first 25 minutes, Man Utd were in disbelief as well.

It actually looked like there was a clear gameplan that made sense, and it was working okay…

Then, as soon as they scored, the team capitulated.

1st goal - OG
2nd goal - Jarrad loses possession
3rd goal - Jarrad follows Zirkzee into the opposition half and leaves massive space behind him
4th goal - Tarkowski loses possession.

I have criticised Dyche's tactics recently, but this one is down to individuals making terrible mistakes that no professional should make.

I've never seen such a mediocre attacking left-back at Everton in all my time watching.

There's been some that were never amazing but all had some ability on the ball going forward. Mykolenko isn't even anywhere near a Gary Naismith level.

We need a better left-back – simple as that.

“He was shite” – as was the rest of the losers not fit to wear the shirt!!!

Jerome @23 sums it up with his Christmas Turkey analogy.
Big changes needed now.
O'Brien in for Tarkowski
Mangala for Doucoure
Patterson for Young
Beto / Broja for DCL
Not sure who would be captain tho? Pickford? Branthwaite?
UTFT

Individual errors are not on the manager, I agree, Steve, but changing a formation but going with the exact same personnel (bar a striker who can't really get hold of the ball) doesn't happen often and I suppose when United scored their first, our already brittle confidence would have started to shatter.

I was listening to Alan Stubbs on Radio Merseyside and a word he used quite often was ‘concentration’. I listened because I didn't want to watch Everton and become numb and frustrated, and I'm already feeling the same way about Wednesday night.

Only Walter Smith has ever done this to me before, and just like now, back then Everton were absolutely potless. But after watching Lindstrom playing just once on the wing, it was absolutely obvious the kid isn't a wide player, and it's genuinely very painful, soul-destroying even, to watch.

If this isn't down to the manager, and we really do have the worst squad in the league, then yes, I'm an idiot.

“We are the worst footballing side in the league (possession 20th, goals scored 20th, XG 19th, passes completed 20th, passes attempted 20th, pass completion rate 19th, short passes attempted 20th, medium 19th, long 1st!, assists 19th, corners won 18th, distance covered with the ball 20th, subs made 20th, offsides 2nd!”

Wednesday is huge now. After yesterday I hope he plays Patterson at right-back, moves Young to left-back, and plays Mangala instead of Doucouré. Playing McNeil in the No 10 role isn't really working, however you dress it up, and I am not sure Ndiaye is our best option as Lindstrom's best season was when he played as an attacking No 10 with minimal defensive requirements.

I don't think it matters who plays centre-forward as both Calvert-Lewin and Beto don't look like scoring, and we are probably clutching at straws to think Broja will become the new Kevin Campbell.

We will almost certainly be in the bottom 3 by Christmas even if we sack Dyche. Tony Abrahams mentioned this is like the last days of Walter Smith and I couldn't agree more. We are clueless, too slow in everything we do, and bereft of belief. We do really need a miracle this season.

I actually thought that Man Utd were set up to defend, originally anticipating a defensive shaped Everton. They then got more into the space available getting the corner.

After the goal, they continued in earnest into the space available. Dyche even upping the anti with Pickford making up a back three, and even continuing after they scored with the players set up at the start of the second half too far forward from the kick off.

The fourth goal was against an unchanged Everton formation. It appeared three at the back because Young did not play forward as much as the headless Mykolenko. It made Young look better because he was there to do two tackles, whilst Mykolenko did none. Young lost the ball 9 times to Mykolenko's 7.

Tony #36,

I agree regarding errors. The formation put a lot of pressure on the centre-backs with runs not being tracked..What I watched did all look pretty clueless.

Mark #37,

I think Patterson for Mykolenko. You need someone in the right-back position who knows he has to be there. Seamus is there for the Young position. I know it could be better, but alas Dyche does not have them in the first team squad.

For all the "our players are crap" calls, they're still better than some of the teams below us. They should be, we pay plenty more money than those teams can.

Let's get rid of this limiting factor and secure our status for another year.

I watched MotD2 from behind the sofa last night and the Wolves striker Cunha had THREE goals in the November competition for goal of the month.

Our centre-backs need to raise their game. Maybe a chance for Keane to redeem himself?

For years I have been teary eyed about leaving Goodison as I've attended for 55 years. I feel so disconnected from this club that now I just can’t be bothered anymore.

With the exception of Pickford, not one of these clowns is fit to wear the shirt and 'grace' the turf at our new home.

Dyche needs to go now and we can be thankful for him keeping us up the past two seasons, any longer and the toxicity will rise. There is no owner or board to criticise so he will take the full brunt. On the same note, there is no one to remove him or pay his contract up.

What an absolute shambles this club has become.

Patterson is error-prone but perhaps should have started at least for his ability to get a decent ball in. Doucoure's continued presence is baffling, maybe Dyche thinks he'll pop up with a goal?

Beto up top was what many on here have been clamouring about so I don't see that as a grave mistake. We can complain all we like but the options are limited.

Dyche is a dead man walking but vilifying him for his tactics yesterday is wide of the mark, he tried something offensive but a combination of our weak personnel and one or two of his selections added up to a walloping.

I note no-one's said much about the performance of the god-like Jarrad Branthwaite. If that was Keane, I'd still be reading posts about him now.

I don't think any manager would get much more out of these players, but it's obvious that the club will have to try something different unless there's a radical change results-wise. The Wolves game is massive. Dyche needs to carry on recklessly gambolling with forward thinking ideas and not revert back to what he knows.

Ranting on and on about Dyche won't change one inescapable fact, most of our playing staff look like Championship footballers.

You could have worded it a little more diplomatically, but your general point is absolutely spot on.

There has never been a manager who can legislate or compensate for persistent individual errors. They are the hardest problem to solve and will kill any team. Don't take my word for it – just ask the guy who is generally regarded as the best manager in the world.

Despite having world class talent throughout the team,Man City are currently on an even worse run than we are. Tarkowski has had the mother of Westons this season, yet the overwhelming majority were screaming for Keane to be dropped. How's that working?

Some fans were claiming their pressure on Dyche forced his hand and made him play Branthwaite as soon as he was physically fit... Again, how is that going?

Get Calvert-Lewin out and Beto in has also been a cry, but the people around me yesterday were squirming as the ball bounced repeatedly of the big fella all game.

"Drop Ashley Young Now!" is another oft-repeated cry, but he has been our best defender by a country mile.

Dyche has done himself no favours with his tactics and his interviews. He has to come up with the solution to this nightmare, but he will not find any answers on these pages.

Some of the stuff posted defies belief. Have I really just read one poster criticising him for changing his tactics? His critics don't even agree with each other. They're united only by their dislike for him.

I now see people claiming we will not get a win in December. Those same people would be first in line to accuse Dyche of being a surrender monkey if he was to utter such depressingly negative shite.

I was angry with him yesterday, but not for the first time. The lack of thought which goes into these bashings has me inching back towards his camp.

I can't stand him, and just want the awfull excuse to coaching gone.

Played 13 - Won 2 - Drawn 5 - Lost 6 - goals for 10 - goals against 21 points 11.
We've won 7 league games (so far) in the calendar year 2024 from 31 played.

How is that fickle or reactionary?

I'm neither a happy clapper nor a negative ninny but I can no longer defend Sean Dyche as manager of Everton FC
If that makes me two faced then so be it.

UTFT

Knowing who I was, as the score from Old Trafford kept popping up, I was being consoled, even told to close my eyes!!

I don't like knee jerking after a bad result, but I think the time has come for change, before we do another Lampard and almost leave it too late.

The Friedkin Group may not yet hold the reigns, but I am sure they will be watching and can influence.

I subject myself to the highlights last night. Three of those goals were early Christmas presents for United. I know you don't always get the full picture on the tele, but for one of them, there was only Ashley Young on his own. I was left wondering where the defence was!!

Onto Wolves on Wednesday. Big fixture, but one we can win, if we show confidence and belief.

Sadly, unless we can somehow find enough points to survive, Moshiri's legacy will be a double-edged sword - our first relegation in living memory, but an incredible new stadium to take us into the future.

Again his after match interview he states this club has struggled to score goals whoever has been manager, but he ignores the fact even if that was true he was hired to change that. You could see as soon as the 2nd goal went in whatever shred of confidence this side had, quickly evaporated. Dyche has now arrived at the point that he has tried various changes to personal and the odd tweak tactically but none of it has worked. Given our run of games after the Wolves game couldnt be any harder, and with a team who havent scored for a month and don't look like scoring then how we get anything from the games after Wolves I don't know.

I have seen us survive a few possible relegation scares over the decades, and it looks like we will be embroiled in yet another one this season. Even if Friedkin come in and get a decent manager, these players heads have been filled with so much negativity that it will take a new manager weeks to start to make improvements. I just hope when the change of manager is made its not to late.

Answers on a post card to anyone at Everton Head Office

We’ll have to wait for seasons end when his contract expires.

This isn't about yesterday. It's about that great run of fixtures we tried to draw 0-0 and failed.

There's nothing knee jerk about a prolonged period of dreadful performances.

As much as it grates, I can live with a defeat at Old Trafford. I've had plenty of practice.

And I think he's lost the dressing room as well a many supporters. That's never a good mix.

Hopefully they give us some recovery therapy on Wednesday.

And then the small matter of playing the duracel bunnies at the weekend, which I have been barred from going to by my sister, as we're having a meal for son's 30th. I couldn't really argue as there are a few travelling down from Liverpool.

I think they'll all know where my mind will be!!

It is essential we have the atmosphere at Goodison changed back to the real bear pit it can be, on Wednesday night. If Dyche has gone, then that is guaranteed. Appoint from within. Be it Baines, Tait, Coleman, Young or even Chong, it has to be done and done today. Something has to happen to give this club an almighty jolt right now, not in January, as right now we are a holed canoe, without a paddle heading straight over Niagara Falls.

Afterwards the powers that be, can sort out the new manager and get him in before the January window opens. Please someone at Everton make this happen. Our future as a Premiership club depends on it. Dyche is running on empty, he has to go.

I don't think you will find the words "fickle" "reactionary" or Knee-jerk in my posts mate.

happy for you to challenge what I say, but I usually make a policy of ignoring posts which attribute stuff to me that I simply didnt say

The problems at Everton run much deeper. I'm not advocating Dyche stays, but I despair at some of the comments about him I read on here.

Like as though some magic safety et will appear and we'll have a team that can challenge for Europe.

The new owners will need to prove to me first that they are the real deal.

Standards needs raising at this club, status quo has been the norm here for too long and everyone is far too comfortable with just staying up.

A new manager can make some tweaks, perform better than Dyche and make a difference. Afterall, Dyche himself came in made some tweaks and got 21 points from 18 games compared to Lampard who managed 15 points from the first 20 games that season. If that sort of improvement was replicated to 1.17 points per game that Dyche managed when taking over, it would see us end the season on 40 points if the replacement is taken now.

Dyche was hamstrung by decisions he’s made (or hasn’t made) in the last few weeks as he would never return Patterson to the line-ups after months out away to Man Utd. He is far too cautious for that.

Of the starting line-up, I would have played Patterson at right back and switched Young across to the left and played Mangala alongside Gana. But with the injuries that would have been about it.

Against Wolves, we must play 3 in midfield or we will be over-run.

I’ve been very patient with our manager and supported him for what he dealt with in his first couple of seasons in charge, but his tactics have sucked any joy out of watching us play.

Yes, the players were awful (again) yesterday and we played ok at the start. To say that none of the goals were the managers fault leads me to point to goals 1 and 3:

Goal 1. 11 players in the 6 yard box. Every, single time we are defending a corner. Job done for Utd (with a lucky deflection).

Goal 3. From the kickoff, pass to Pickford, hoof it long. Every, single time we kickoff.

Two training ground goals for Utd, because we don’t mix it up.

As for our attacking play, you’d have thought that, after 2 years, there might be patterns of play and partnerships developing. But nothing. No triangles, no overlapping, no nothing.

We’re all fed up and we all know that nobody is at the club to make a decision, doesn’t mean any of us are idiots ffs! Let’s not turn on each other for Christ’s sake.

We need a decent atmosphere on Wednesday and the backing of the fans, its hard to do that when you know you’ll be bored shitless for a couple of hours.

He should never have been made manager in the first place but he was and I think he'll keep us in the Premier league.

We have an average to poor squad unable to find the right balance and timing between defence and attack.

He's right in what he says, no player, manager, coach or fan can understand how JB and Tarks dallied and got bullied off the ball by someone half their size. Basic mistakes.

We played well in the first half and yet found ourselves 2-0 down at half time.

Not helped by the ref who refused to book any of their players or give us anything until we were 3-0 down.

Tactically we got it wrong. We played a stupidly high line away from home against a team that want to counter attack us. That's what annoys me and is down to the manager. But the stupid mistakes and lack of defensive discipline lost us the game.

I think Mangala along with Gana and Duke or Tim (how we miss his forward play) need to be our 3 midfielders until a better solution can be found.

Also, Lindstrom brings nothing. He can't beat a drum with a stick. End his loan asap.

The poor bugger knows he's gone – someone needs to put him out of his misery.

I really don't need the stats on our results... I'm all too familiar with them. I was merely saying the blame game is ridiculous...

Get Keane out, Branthwaite in. (Branthwaite comes in and makes a few howlers in one game.) Get Tarkowski out, Keane in.

Some posters have argued for Calvert-Lewin, then Beto, then Calvert-Lewin again. Fact is neither will score many unless given better service. Or indeed any service. I totally understand supporters going mad with our performances and results, because I am one of them.

I can't see anything positive about the downfall of my club.

But we now exist on the "new manager" bounce then sack them when the honeymoon period wanes.

It's a plan I suppose just not a great one but that's how modern footy works.

Also, what odds on an away draw to a top 4 club in tonight's FA Cup draw?

Either could be correct.

First goal school boy. Absolutely no one anywhere near the two Man U players on the edge off the box. Branthwaite deflection not relevant as the shot was going in the bottom corner anyways.

Second goal. What is Pickford thinking. Three players to pass to and he chooses by far the worst option. Yes Doucoure was calling for it but he hasn’t got eyes in the back of his head. Pickford should have seen Diallo and instead telegraphs the pass. Doucoure and Branthwaite then under pressure and 2.0. Branthwaite should have done better but Pickford to blame for me.

Third goal I actually laughed out loud when I saw it. It’s from our kick off! Ball kicked straight to Pickford, who launches it upfield. Then ALL our outfield players follow to ball. Ridiculous - thats how my 7 year old daughter’s team play! Why Mykolenko runs to the right forward position, no idea. Man U get the ball, massive hole on our left and 3.0. Tarkowski should have tracked Rashfords run but Mykolenkko - wtf?

Fourth goal, Diallo wriggles past 3 players on the right wing, then Tarkowski’s day dreaming as the ball comes to him, 4.0

When 3 or your back 5 are having a mare, you’ve got no chance. Such a poor poor defensive display, it’s laughable. Not even Sunday League standard that and these are ‘top’ professionals earning millions a year. Players in lower leagues must be wondering how on earth they can’t get a premierleague gig.

Also, McNeil, jeez. Spend some time kicking with the other foot. It’s not hard. We did it at school. It amazes me there are professional footballers, in any league never mind the premier league, that still cannot kick with both feet.

Ever the optimist, Danny, but that "if" is doing some very heavy lifting there mate.

The players should go out for the kick-off, get into a huddle and say "Fuck the Gaffer's instructions, let's fucking have these!"

Calvert-Lewin and Dyche haven't spokne since the Ipswich game and Calvert-Lewin travelled back to Merseyside on his own.

Thelwell wants Dyche gone. Patterson and O'Brien want out. Brownhill (Burnley) refused to sign for us in the summer: “I don't want to play for Dyche.” ??????

Four points from the next two and we can relax a bit.

To put that into context, we've scored the fewest goals in all 4 professional divisions in England. Yes, I looked it up and only Southampton and Tranmere have scored the same, 10.

Even Wayne Rooney's awful Plymouth have 18.

If you can't score goals you won't win games, there's no more science to the conundrum. Dyche will leave at the end of the season, whether we stay up or not, that's a given I'd say so until then we have to suck it up because nothing is going to change.

We're already beginning to be cut adrift from West Ham up, and looking down, the teams below us also have a very tough December. Aside from Wolves who play all the teams in the bottom 6 over Christmas, the rest of them play the top teams, so our tough December is at least something we share with Southampton, Ipswich, Palace and Leicester.

Dychian philosophy is all about not losing, and the teams around us don't tend to play that way, preferring to try to win games - I'm not defending Dyche here, but his philosophy when you're as shit as we are, is in fact the right thing to do. Don't lose. Which generally speaking we don't, aside from yesterdays aberration. That alone should keep us up, and the mangers brief is to keep us in the division so he'll feel vilified if we stay up, and proud of the job he's done.

Supporters want entertainment, but unless you follow one of the top 6, chances are entertainment will always play second fiddle to pragmatism because it's quite literally all about being in the Premier League. Winning doesn't matter to owners, staying in the division does.

I'm not seeing a lost dressing room just yet, but there's a severe lack of desire on the pitch and Dyche doesn't seem to care. I could say there was no passion, but that sliding tackle suggests there's some pride still in existence.

Given most of the players remain the same as last season I can only surmise the lack of contracts for Dyche (and backroom staff?) and Calvert-Lewin are part of the puzzle.

Like everyone else, I hate the situation we find ourselves in. How do we avoid relegation with tactics like this?

The only hope I have is takeover goes through early enough to get a new manager in and a new striker in January. If not I can't see us staying up.

Why Mangala wasn't playing yesterday instead of Doucoure, god only knows. When Patterson came on, he started overlapping straight away, so give the lad a go and let's see if he can get to the byline and pull some balls back because persevering with the same back 4 is getting us nowhere. Drop Mykolenko, play Young there, and put Patterson in.

Tarkowski has stunk this season so try O'Brien and Branthwaite together or Keane and Branthwaite. Try a 4-3-3 with Calvert-Lewin, Beto or Broja (when fit), with Lindstrøm on the right and Ndaiye on the left.

Drop McNeil, who has been poor lately; put Gana, Mangala and Doucoure as the 3 in midfield… But we know he won't, it will be the same 11, same tactics as usual.

He can't just keep sending the same players out in the same positions week after week and expect it to turn. We are bottom in or nearly bottom in all the attacking metrics and that is on Dyche.

Thank god it looks like there's 3 teams worse than us, what a sad last season at Goodison Park…

I look at Brighton: they hire Potter from Swansea and he has them moving up the table, playing good football. He is then headhunted by Chelsea, so Brighton had already decided that De Zerbi was to be their next manager.

Again playing good football and some say he improved them again. Then he leaves and they have already decided their next manager is a 30-plus Hurzeler and, lo and behold, he has them playing good football and they presently sit 4th in the Premier League.

Now contrast that with Dyche, Allardyce and Benitez and Lampard.

Being good 100 years ago, then briefly in the '60s and '80s doesn't mean shit as far as the future goes.

Brighton are a prime example of future planning, and not harping on about history. Tradition is just stuff some dead people did. It's meaningless.

If your source of information has it right, then the takeover being completed this side of Christmas would give us all a huge jolt of optimism, but this being Everton FC, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that some unforeseen obstacle will further delay the deal?

Personally, I have supported Dyche, and have stated on TW that we needed continuity, and (based upon his keeping the club afloat for the past 18 months with zero direction from above) he deserved a shot of taking the club into the new stadium.

That said, this season has been appalling, both in terms of results, tactics and performances overall. If he has ( as Rob's source suggests) “lost the dressing room” then Dyche should not dig himself further into the mire and dig his heels in. He should seek a release settlement on the basis of “mutual consent”.

There is no reason why Moshiri could not broker the terms with Friedkin so that the cost of releasing Dyche and his backroom people is factored in to the deal agreed in the takeover.

Wolves are shaky at the back, but are more than useful up front... Could be a tipping point. Hopefully not.

History doesn't mean a thing in your opinion, therefore why do any of us bother sticking with Everton? Is it because some of us have witnessed some fine football, some winning football and seen trophies paraded around Goodison on more occasions than most other football clubs could only dream about.

We do need a fresh start, there's no argument about that at all, but to think that doing a Brighton, or whichever other club is flavour of the month, will somehow satisfy some Evertonians is to belittle the clubs past achievements and its heroes. I remember during the 1970s Coventry City were seen as a forward thinking club, it didn't last. Everton has stood the test of time, even if the past few decades have been painful.

Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool all trade on their history and rightly so, the fact that they have also been successful more recently than us, doesn't in any way mean we have to denigrate our own history.

Our history is a constant reminder of what this club can be and for many what it should be, the last 30 years have been very poor, but that period doesn't define Everton Football Club, the period from 1878 to present day does.

The game is evolving and we are going backwards, you can ask Leeds, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday and even Derby fans how much respect football has for their history.

We support Everton because we where brought up to do so, it's what we do, just like the fans of "every" club in the world (mostly).

The sentimental history mindset is what got us in this mess in the first place with Billy Bullshit and his "I remember" mindset, well my fear is I will remember us taking the drop.

Maybe you have a point... history is all we have at present, but history will not improve our position now or in the future.

It looks Liverpool are going to win another league title (playing football we can only dream of), in what could be a disaster season for us. Everton last winning the title in 1987 is no consolation.

If so, what did the players do at full-time? Did they come over?

You get the club you deserve and if it wouldn't have been for some very loyal, defiant and clever Evertonians, we would probably already be finished forever, even though Destination Kirkby, was going to give us a chance to gain more footfall…

It's far from a millstone, it's what makes football here and the sad fact is if we go down it'll start to be lost. The size and support of the club is what still allows us to attract players (obviously cash too) when most (or at least their other halves) would prefer London.

The trophies and successes of the past are passed down story wise to younger generations too. Memories, memories. It's what life's about no?

It's all relative. Our League position over those 11 seasons was better than what we achieved since then bar one or two exceptions.

We haven't won anything, assuming we don't win FA Cup this season, in 30 years!

Danny #80,

Are you only expecting 1 point from the Wolves game?

Even if the players have lost faith in Dyche, for their own sake and pride they should be beating Wolves. At the end of the day they don't want to be in the Championship and half the first team have contracts beyond this season.

It will be tense on Wednesday but, for some reason, I don't see us getting beat. May just be post-trauma denial kicking in!

Anyway, in reply to your question, only the usual players came over, Mykolenko and Pickford stand out for me, but I think there were one or two more. The rest just slinked away!

Football fans have short memories – particularly those who latch on to (I won't use the word support) the successful teams.

Just a few weeks into the new season and some disgruntled Man City fans seem to want Pep replaced. And closer to home, Jurgen the Messiah hardly gets a mention as, like last year's mobile phone, he appears to have been replaced by an upgrade.

The indignation of a once great footballing institution fighting relegation fuels the extraordinary atmospheres that have rescued us. However, the same history can be a burden leading to caginess before adventure and fear before courage inevitably leading us to shitsville.

Trouble is – it is what it is.

We either deal with it or descend through the divisions never to return. The possibility of becoming the first great English club to go out of existence being a massive possibility.

Then you go up a level or two, Messi, predominantly left-footed. Think how good he could have been if he could use his right foot more... :)

People got hoodwinked, enough people actually turned on those wise Evertonians who created KEIOC, and if it might be relative when looking at our league position since Moshiri came on board, the simple fact of the matter is that by accepting relative, we helped Kenwright make Everton irrelevant.

I totally agree with the posts above talking about the sentimentality. It's great to have a reasonably prestigious history (more ancient than modern) but no way is that the reason I'm a Toffee and watch when I can.

I can't forgive you for calling me over towards the end of the game – I was having a quiet cry that I thought nobody would see.

Which is why I put "mostly" in brackets.

I didn't think we would lose at Old Trafford for some reason so I'm saying nothing about Wednesday.

Happy to cover all the petrol costs.

If we risk sticking, rather than twisting, there is a very strong probability that we will end the season heading for the Championship. Just because he did it first season and last season, it doesn't translate that a repeat will save us again. The early signs are dictating otherwise.

I feel if Dyche was to at least try different players, rather than just playing the same ones week after week, barring injury, he would not only garner some respect for at least trying something different. It may just result in it being a positive solution.

That would have made all the difference. I get right- and left-back mixed up. Is Mykolenko not a right-back? Tony pulled me up on that before when I described Seamus as a rght-back, reading it the wrong way round. Everton have had trouble with the right-back position for years. Branthwaite is not a right-back.

Dyche did not keep the whole squad available and, worse still, did not keep developing it. Danjuma most people forgot existed and with O'Brien we get the impression he should be in the Championship on loan, but his transfer fee suggests not.

Tony #103,

I for one was fully suckered by Kenwright and the alarm bells rung with Moyes when interviewed said that the Top 4 were getting so many millions more and Everton should be up there, but by that time, I could predict the slide back after every third game, a mid-table pattern, which resulted in Everton being mid-table at the end of each season. He was just a spoffer.

I remember Trevor Brooking lambasting certain players who he identified as going through the motions. The press had vaulted Everton's Premier League potential finish. Brooking said it would not happen and it didn't.

Agree with pretty much all of that, mate, though I would start Calvert-Lewin and Beto together with Ndiaye just behind.

You are right of course; fat chance he goes anywhere near that formation.

I think the difference this season is that Dyche knows his time will be up at some point soon… so he doesn't really give a shit.

Same for a lot of the players soon to be out of contract.

(You have to be of an age.)

You are probably right that Dyche is in the position that he most probably will not be retained, if indeed he manages to stay until the end of the season.

Even if it means throwing us to the Wolves (no pun intended – our next game) he will walk away, rewarded for failure, that applies if he gets sacked too.

We should be renamed Everton Football Charity.

I think there is a tendency on this site for people to try to distort what people have said in order to shoehorn their own point into the debate.

Jim Bennings is just one example – there are many. Jim tells us "Everybody" (except him) believes we will have a team challenging for Europe once we move into the new stadium.

He also tells us that "Everybody" (except him, again) is too comfortable with just staying up.

Is that an opinion, or is it somebody creating a fictional situation in order to try to convince people of his sage-like qualities?

Goodison may hold a special place in many an Evertonian heart, but what hope is there for anybody who doesn't understand why people are so eager to leave a dilapidated old relic of a ground and move into a brand new state-of-the-art-stadium which will generate a much-needed boost to the coffers?

Some of the comments on here defy belief. Some even telling us we won't win in December... What sort of football fan gives up on the 6 points that are up for grabs at the old lady in the next five days... Before they even know who's playing?

Wolves and the shite are going both deffo going to beat us, are they?? We'll see about that.

On the other side of the coin, I am sick of hearing his nonsense about the noise at the club, the historic problems (excuses), and how his squad is constantly in transition (hardly).

We all just need to ride it out. He won't relegate us but he is gone in the summer.

On a different note (la), I drove to Altrincham (1 hour from Southport), and got the tram to the Old Trafford stop (15 minutes). Brilliant, and only waited about 10 minutes or so for a tram on the way back.

Messi (and likes of Rivaldo and V Persie) has a left foot better than most players two feet combined. Yet Messi is able to use his right foot if/when needed. He's good enough to take it on his left if he wants however.

We had two-touch 6-a-side at school where you couldn't use your weaker foot. Got punished if you did (eg, press ups). Won't get you fully two-footed but at least meant you got comfortable using the other peg.

McNeil is so one-footed it's unreal. Even when there was a clear shot on his right, first instinct was to get it on his left, chance gone, gets tackled.

Nigel 107, I thought we'd lose and was surprised how the first half hour went. Defending after was shocking. If the players defend like that on Wednesday, they'll be lucky to get out of the stadium in one piece. Will get ugly.

Take all of the players who have been missing/injured which includes Coleman, Patterson, Branthwaite, Iroegbunam, Garner, Chermiti and Broja. Most of these guys have been missing pretty much all season which leaves very little option for change. I am not sure if having all these guys available would have made a big difference or not because it does boil down to tactics.

Given how poor our right- and left-backs have been so far this season, does this not cry out for a back 3 and then a 5 man midfield? Each week the opposition know we are setting up as a 4-2-3-1 and so it is easy for them to work out how to beat us without getting out of second gear.

We do need a manager who understands the strengths of each player so as to be able to switch it up and I am not sure Dyche does. Wolves is a 6-pointer and so I just hope the Goodison crowd can suck the ball into the back of the net for us.

Dyche is a pre-historic coach, a dinosaur and totally unsuited to modern football. If we stay up now, it will be despite Dyche and not because of Dyche. If we recruited my dog as Head Coach, there would be no likelihood of us doing worse as a result.

I would sooner we build a Hospital and go down than keep this man in employment. He is not smart, he cannot think, he has the intellectual abilities and charm of the average house brick, and he fits the Everton profile as much as Ian St John.

Gotta get this sale completed ASAP!