January could be a sliding doors moment, Everton need to act

Anything else would be a bonus but, for once, they need to focus on priorities.

As an aside, Harry, you aren't Rory's caddie are you, as it's an unusual name?

And no caddying for me, Ray. Just the same name!

Regarding strikers, the rumour that made the most sense to me was the persistent one about a loan swap with Roma, Beto for Dovbyk, but Sky Sports Italia reported this week that Dovbyk wants to stay in Serie A and isn't interested in coming to the Premier League.

Here's an article I would like to see: 'Is it worth it for TFG to invest in Everton enough to get European football?'

Let's say we are now comfortably mid-table. If TFG continue to spend about the same as a mid-table team, and they make a tidy little profit, is it worth them investing more to get amongst the Euro football placings?

They are a business, not football fans; they are here to make money out of this club. Is it worth them changing this season's plans to push for a higher position than we are now?

I genuinely don't know, perhaps you, or a fellow columnist could get someone to crunch the numbers to find out. That would be a worthwhile read!

Who knows what the pot really is like without the inside knowledge of the full financial picture. My point really was it feels like a missed opportunity if nothing is done in a season like this.

I guess there's so much that goes into any deal but let's hope there are some loans (at the very least) that can be done.

I think Mainoo and Dovbyk would both be worthwhile punts if the deals can be done. Elsewhere, could a Conor Gallagher or Dominic Solanke be loaned in with World Cup places at stake?

I'm just throwing names out but the hope is the club are exploring their options.

I'll see if I can delve into the numbers and make some sort of estimate. Difficult to know without the ins and outs of contracts etc (I'd imagine there are wage increases for European qualification for some), but I think the higher placing and extra revenue can be worked out to some extent.

For me, it's worth a gamble even if it's pushing for loans to fill out the squad this month. You'd imagine plenty of the regular European sides will be back better next season.

Say, for example, it's Conference League football. The cons are surely the Thursday - Sunday schedule with a (currently) small squad. But the pros are more revenue, a winnable competition that leads to further European football at a higher standard, and minutes for fringe or academy players against certain teams.

Exactly, risk verses reward. If I was a multi-billionaire, I wouldn't care if the team I loved lost a bit of money, if it meant competing for the top silverware, but we are not owned by supporters.

Is Conference League football worth TFG dipping into the coffers to get the 2 or 3 quality players we would need, or will they be happy with an 8th to 13th place finish for no more outlay and mark it up as a successful season?

Is there a worthwhile financial reward to them?

Whether that immediately translates into an uptick in P&L is partially missing the point.

TFG's motive will be to increase the capital value of the club.

I would like to see some haste here though because we are in a fairly unnatural position currently, where a few good results on the run puts us vying for Champions League qualification. It's a long way off but we need to add quality now and not slip during our weakest point to make the dream a reality.

My feeling is that it's going to take 5 or 6 players, not 2 or 3, to strengthen the squad up to the point where we can compete in Europe while not risking our Premier League position. Nobody wants to fall back into the yearly relegation struggles.

Conference League rewards are paltry. Win the whole thing and you collect maybe €20M in prize money total, including €7M for the final. That buys one decent player. So it's not about investing in players and making the money back.

Purely guessing here, but I think the new owners will look at this season, compare it to where we were a year ago, and consider it a successful season as is. And then look to build us into a European contender gradually.

Roma is currently 4th in Serie A and 10th of 36 in the Europa League, seemingly headed back to the Champions League next season, after 5 years under Friedkin ownership.

The risk of a serious slide down the Premier League table is the concern. When players get exhausted midseason, it isn't as easy as just picking up a player in January to turn it around.

We have just become a decent Premier League squad at the bare minimum of functional players. Moyes is one who will revert to conservative approaches to matches when survival is a concern.

Let us grow some stability for another season before vocally demanding European qualification. Let the players somewhat enjoy the success built in their efforts.

If we get to that threshold without buying in January, then maybe the funds saved will make it easier to sustain the move up. We need to be patient with the squad we have.

"Aye, yes. I have spoken with the board and they have released £100M to spend on a new striker and a new right-back. So we are desperate to get those two players in".

Or was it as reported above: "The CEO and manager have both taken the unusual step of pre-emptively tamping down our expectations of business in this window in the interest of keeping our powder dry for summer."

Now if you were Vinai Venkatesham at Spurs and we came asking about Richarlison or Solanke, where would you start the bidding if you wanted to sell one of them?

I just hope we are going back to the days of "Hello everyone, you thought he was going to Leeds but this afternoon we have signed Alan Ball!"

Reminds me of Chester's Terry Smith who announced to the crowd at a pre-season friendly against the Blues that his aim was to get out of the fourth tier by the end of the season. He did. They were relegated from the Football League.

Not outstanding but a little better than I expected considering the injuries to some of our best players.

The summer is the time to push the boat out if they indeed intend doing that. Maybe a couple of bargain buys to make up the numbers in this window will do for me.

Not only that, clearly showing frustration and hidden anger about the duffers signed with the frequent phrase "Not Premier League standard" etc.

The club is inexcusably dreadful at spotting anyone talented or even just good -- even when they have them at the club (Haaland - twice).

Woeful decisions by incompetent staff are the par for the course. This includes Academy level. The last window was no better than the previous 50 to 60 windows, other than the loan move for Jack Grealish and signing Dewsbury-Hall.

With every Everton fan and the manager crying out the obvious and urgent need for a striker (for decades)... not a sniff. Lukaku being the one exception.

It's incredulous. A joke. Pathetic. Yet it continues. I have no faith in this club's ability to sign anyone desperately required during any window. Reality has proven this to be the case. No shock.

ToffeeWebbers know footballers and list suitable and exciting talent. None will ever appear in a blue shirt. A true crime.

Gyokeres
Sesko
Solanke
Beto
Muani
Zirkzee
Tel
Isak
Delap
Rutter
Cunha
Havertz
Barry

Not far off £1B in transfer fees, never mind wages. You'd struggle to get 20 goals total, never mind each per season.

Firstly, Moyes has never liked paying money for strikers. In 10 seasons, he only bought 3 strikers: James Beattie, Aiyegbeni Yakubu, Andy Johnson.

Now we all know Moyes sets his teams up fo 1-nils, 2-nils and 2-1s, so having a big goal-getter doesn't suit Moyes.

I have said for 3 seasons we've needed a top right-back but somehow we've stuck with conman Coleman and an injured Patterson, paying about £90 grand a week to these muppetts.

So I think we will only be looking for a couple of loans to make the bench a bit better. Moyes knows we will probably be playing one game a week after next week and he will ride it out.

I hope I'm wrong, lads, and a different Moyes shows up... but I think I will be right. Good luck for wishful thinking.

You've read all of this rubbish but for some reason decided to post some of your own.

What an absolute piece of sewer sludge that is.

You're very foolish coming out with a statement like that about one of our greatest ever signings.

Wind your neck in.

A decent defender but has what we desperately need, speed on the flanks.

You're no relation to the Boss are you.

Just asking like.

I suspect he is a bit of a scamp.

This comment by John @4 is I think the essence of the matter:

"If TFG continue to spend about the same as a mid-table team, and they make a tidy little profit, is it worth them investing more to get amongst the Euro football placings?"

I think the answer is No, at least not for the foreseeable future. A season without relegation worries, which seems probable (but not certain) isn't a bad outcome, for them at least. I can't see them spending very much at all in the next month. If there are any loans, maybe a right-back but it seems that is never the priority it should be because apparently it's okay that Jake or Jimmy play there. Odd.

So my expectations are very low but they do really need to sort Garner's contract out. He is becoming more than useful, even becoming near enough our best midfielder.

Apparently, at a push, he can also play right- or left-back.

Phil @12, What is the source for that quote? It seems to run counter to our TFG spokesperson on here.

Mark #17, only bought three strikers? Coprolite. Did you even read the original article?

Warning from Davey's PC: Dibling is 'a bit younger than the others'.

Coleman in the last 5 years has had about £18M out of Everton FC. He clearly hasn't played much... so anyone who supports that are not with it.

I think that we are judging Seamus over the course of his career as he moves into the coaching staff.

It would help if you could write in understandable English, grammar, and spelling - 'anyone who supports that are not with it'.

And, who are 'your'?

And, 'clowns prob don't go the game'. So, we have no reason at all to believe that you 'go the game' but people who don't are 'clowns'.

It's laughable being judged by someone like you - 'I think looking at your posts clearly shows your poor knowledge'.

Like most WUMS and pathos-ridden attention seekers, you will disappear very soon.

As a 41-year-old Evertonian, this man has given me my best years — excluding Joe Royle's "Dogs Of War" heroes from the 1995 FA Cup win. He is one of the games underrated managers.

Since he left the club, we went backwards massively and almost imploded -- relegation certainly would have done that. Do people not learn their lesson? This is the right man for the club -- how much evidence do people need?

I wish that you were there with me at Rotterdam mate.

I go every game home and away. I drive with 3 mates who go every game.

Paul, sadly you have no clue, and Jamie, sadly you have no clue. The reason being winners are winners and losers are losers... and Moyes is a loser.

There are 6 English teams in the Champions League this season: Man City, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool...

Out of 19 games, Moyes has lost to all of them teams. He just gets scared... not even a draw. He is just above average and plays boring football, simple.

Sure Mark. Would that be Bozza, Bazza, and Bezza?

If you come out with your bollocks. I'd love to see you put that to the 3000.

Bollocks, lad, Your new and WUM.

Pay attention to English lad - 'he just gets scared not Even a draw'.

I'm a tad younger than you and no one your supposed age who is a true blue could have posted your shite about big Mick,.

But views on him seem to be viewed as black or white -- you're either with him or against him. Anyone who criticises his tactics is deemed as anti-Moyes and anyone who praises his game plan, eg, Forest away, is a Moyes lover.

I was glad to see the back of Dyche and, cards on the table, I was not happy to see Moyes back... but even the most sceptical of us must admit he has done an exceptional job so far and transformed a relegation-threatened “team” into a side capable of giving anyone a game.

He's not perfect but his tactics in games such as Forest and Man Utd recently have been close to flawless given the resources he has. I heard we've now won 9 aways in the calendar year since he joined us? That's mighty impressive.

I'm happy now to see him see through the current project and re-establish us in the “Everton position” of 8th annually. Until he hits his glass ceiling, which is what many are still thinking of when they “want him out”.

Personally, as I've said many times, I would like to see him leave with dignity and our thanks and replaced by an Iraola type, young, attacking manager (with a recruitment team to suit him) to take us forward and challenge for honours.

I'm very happy to wait until the end of this season, personally, for that to happen, but if he wins the FA Cup this season, I'd give him another season to enjoy our never-ending gratitude.

That cup is very important to me though. We have to win something soon... and that's our only realistic chance. 8th aren't winners but cup holders are.

We should be striving for NSNO again.
Is Moyes the man to deliver that?

I wish I was in Rotterdam on that night. I was definitely born at the wrong time -- October 1984. Born in our greatest ever season in 1984-85. I respect what you are saying and you are very lucky that you have seen Everton in their greatest period... but it was 40 years ago now.

That's almost at the halfway stage of the average life of a british person. It was soo long ago it's no longer relevant in terms of where the club should be aiming.

Everton are almost certainly never going to challenge for the league title again. Those days are gone. Just like Preston, Wolves, Huddersfield etc aren't going to win the league anymore. But... what I believe we can do is replicate what Tottenham have done for the past 15 years or so... up until their recent slump in the Premier League.

Become a side that is in European competition most seasons, Champions League qualification every now and then, win a domestic cup or two every 10 years or so, maybe the Conference League or Europa League.

You've got to be realistic mate.

We don't know what Moyes's glass ceiling is. He had no right to get us to reguarly finish 5th, 6th or 7th in an 11-year period in the 00s when the club didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of regarding the resources the club had at the time.

It's a different ball game now. The new stadium will bring in much more revenue in the future. But this is just phase one of the rebuild. You have to walk before you can run.

The thing with Moyes is he gets the club. He understands its values and what the fans want. He knows what an "Everton player is" unlike the muppets in charge from the previous era.

We are not a club who should be playing out from the back, doing all this tippy-tappy stuff, one hundred passes and goal. That is not Everton. We tried all this nonsense when Moshiri took over and it almost destroyed the club. We lost our identity, which we now have back.

If people want Moyes out -- be careful what you wish for.

I agree with you that Iraola is an excellent manager but that doesn't mean he's necessarily the right fit for Everton. Does he understand what an "Everton player" is? Does he understand the club's values? That Everton is a unique club with a unique fanbase?

Why do we have to win something soon? The club hasn't won a trophy for almost 31 years now. And excluding Newcastle, Spurs and Palace last season (maybe an outlier), the same clubs have been mopping up the same trophies for decades. We have no right to put a timescale on anything, let alone "we must win a trophy in X amount of seasons"). That's nonsense to say that.

This is my issue -- "We should be striving for NSNO again".

No, we shouldn't -- because that club hasn't lived that monkier for 40-odd years and, despite the new stadium and future revenue streams, Everton will never be a side who wins Premier League titles.

People are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if they truly believe that. The club has fallen so far behind the elite for decades that it will never catch up now. That's the reality.

Just like Everton were always a bigger club than Liverpool until they started rising and then dominating in the late 60s and 70s... and the rest is history.

We will never catch them now with their 6 European Cups, 20 League Titles or whatever it is and all the other trophies they have won.

Striving for NSNO again is just putting needless pressure on the club, the manager, the players.

Honestly, some of the older generation (who I have much respect for) sadly need a reality check.

As the presenter said, you did like Postecoglou although he produced attacking football, conceded to many goals, but did win a trophy.

Thomas Frank has concentrated on not conceding goals, but scoring goals has become more difficult.

So what do Spurs fans want ?

Sounds familiar with some Blues fans, maybe as a manager, you can never win.

We'll be back mate, in your lifetime, and the end of mine. Love your support.

We old arses were lucky. Fuck, we enjoyed it, mate. I have so many stories. But you are the future, mate, and you matter.

Everton have a new identity now, Jamie, we have an amazing new stadium and I believe some of the best young players in the Premier League:

Branthwaite, O'Brien, Dibling, Ndayie... Maybe Barry, who knows, this time next season? Armstrong... Plus the amazing Pickford.

Now forget the past. Grealish has shown you quality works... so has Dewsbury-Hall. One top player is better than three average players.

Jamie, up your game, mate. I've seen it all, no more easy rides now. Glasner from Crystal Palace has been there 2½ seasons, won the FA cup, Charity Shield, and beat the other lot 5 times.

I'm not here to slag Moyes but we have seen what he has and it's not good enough. Forget the past and all this "We are Everton" — we need to be winners again.

We have tried that many I've lost count, has it made any difference - zilch.

It's top class players we need, you know, the ones that make the difference between us and the best teams in the league.

And

"we should be striving for NSNO again".

No we shouldn't”

And

“ Everton will NEVER be a side who wins Premier League titles.”

I will pray for your soul Jamie! Personally I’ll keep on hoping for as long as my auld arse bones carry me.

Keep the faith lad - it’s what keeps us going!

All the best and happy new year!

After years of struggle, this is IMPROVEMENT. He is certainly trying to WiN football matches.

To make any serious further improvement with just a manager, begs questions as to why Pep & Arteta have spent £2bn between them. If managers are that good at motivation & tactics, both clubs could have saved themselves a fortune.

I was going to say yours are some of the best posts this year, but as it's 3 January, I'm afraid it wouldn't be that much of a compliment. I'm afraid, though, that reality check will fall on deaf ears to many around here.

I was at Goodison when the league title was last raised there, and NSNO was a relevance. Now, it's just a stupid relic of when professional football was a sport -- not an outright business.

If we finish 8th, you and I will celebrate more than a Man City fan winning the Premier League, because considering where we have been recently, the hair on a gnat's bollock off relegation, it is more of an achievement. The NSNO diehards will, alas, remain downbeat.

I do however think we can win the league again, if we get another owner with more money than the other owners have, because that is what the Premier League is all about right now.

Regarding Moyes, who you think knows what Evertonians want. Well, this is the man who had a very cushy and rewarding time with his chairman, and the two of them wanted to take the club to Kirkby and end our days there.

This is the man who knew and got what he wanted for himself, same as the chairman he backed for all the time here.

He has done very well out of Everton financially both times he has managed us. We fans could have had a lot more to cheer if he had tried to win a lot more games rather than going for a draw.

I understand why you like him. You saw your best times while he was manager, so you are grateful for that. I saw him differently to you and wanted him out long before he went because I believe Moyes was an average manager at best -- and I still believe that.

How come we've improved markedly since he returned also? It's all well and good using the 'never won a trophy', 'doesn't win at ground x' arguments ad nauseum. The simple facts are that managers who tick the boxes Moyes haters want have come in and managed us and done worse.

Ironically, the people who think 'going for it a bit' would solve all our ails and is the primary reason why Moyes is a failure, as they see it, fail to recognize that seldom does any club outside the elite sides win anything and the few examples of anyone doing it generally involve a fair amount of luck. A clean sheet. A set-piece goal, or whatever. All the things these kind of fans don't rate.

Since winning the FA Cup in 1995, Moyes has done the best in getting to the final at least.

We have had countless opportunities to invest in good scoring players but, due to the crooks in charge, we have swerved anything that might raise eyebrows from the backhander investigation squad.

Moyes will only ever play 1 up front. Without support or crosses. So, to me, it's a case of "What's the point?" The striker seems to be someone to hoof it to from the keeper, lose it, and then the team try and grab possession from the opposition.

Also, he is extra added height and heading ability at corners. Other than that, I can't see why we have one in our present and previous god knows how many regimes stretching back decades. Certainly not for goals.

Our set plays are pants. No player in the team has the ability to thread a magic pass or intelligent ball through to our pacey frontman. Chances are thus rarer than a Moyes derby double.

Our two present incumbents are rightly described as Bollard#1 and Bollard#2. I can't see us succeeding in any transfer window. We buy the occasional good player, but the caveat being we have to buy 5 crap ones to go with him.

Eric @ 27,

Martin #15, the difference between then and now is that now we have an ace recruitment team that are going to solve all our problems.

Ha ha. Funny.

Stop injecting common sense into a debate about Moyes; you know it doesn't go down well.

He is a capable percentage manager who will generally come out on top against other also-rans.

He would be far more popular if he weren't such a Frankie Howard when he comes up against the big boys.

That's his choice.

I have the same hopes and dreams as you but the difference seems to be I 'm a realist and you are a fantasist -- probably because you have seen Everton win titles many, many moons ago.

Unfortunately we are not in 1985 but 2025 and the goalposts have well and truly moved.

By keeping to believe that the club should be challenging the elite sides is only going to end up in disappointment. If we won the league 5 years ago you might have a point.

But we're talking about a time when Everton last won the league -- the internet hadn't even been invented. Guns N' Roses (i think) had only just released Appetite For Destruction). The Champions League was still the European Cup. CDs didn't exist yet!

When it comes to the older generation, I get it. They've seen the club at its best and always believe that eventually we will, or at least should, get back there. It's warped thinking though.

Nothing wrong with being ambitious but, when you look at the resources of Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea (that's just for starters), I don't really see how they think we will win the Premier League in the future. Maybe they can explain the process to me?

You are spot on when you say NSNO is a relic -- I couldn't've put it better myself.

Unless people at the club believe realistically we can ever get back to the very top, they should get rid of that moniker -- it's just a noose around the clubs neck that doesn't need to be there.

I disagree with your belief that we can win the Premier League again (I very much hope I 'm wrong, of course) but due to the financial levers and restrictions in the Premier League, the days of a mid-table club elevating themselves to the elite and, more importantly, staying there (unlike Tottenham Hotspur and more than likely Aston Villa) are over.

When Manchester City elevated themselves to elite status, thanks to excellent recruitment and splashing the cash, it was a free-for-all. More or less, you could spend what you want... You can't do that anymore -- and that is to Everton's, and every other club outside the elites, detriment.

My sons are in the twenties and expect us to win the FA Cup this season, and the Premier League within 5 years. Therefore, it's not generational but you, Jamie.

At the end of the day, I suppose we all have our different opinions and view everything from different angles due to past experiences.

Myself, my best Everton days were the 1995 FA Cup win and under Moyes in 00s and that 72-point season under Martinez; for others, it is seeing Everton at the top of the tree.

This can be a probem though because it splits the fan base. Everton is a unique club in English football as we are the only club with such an impressive history who has fallen away from the elite. And that causes its own problems.

You have one section of the fanbase like myself who respects and understands the club's history but knows full well where Everton are in the food chain in the modern era.

Then the other section of the fanbase who still believe Everton are one of the top few clubs in the country (we're not -- the last 30-35 odd years will tell you that).

I don't think it does us any favours.

In fact, I struggle to remember when the entire fanbase was actually on side together as one. I'm not sure if I even remeber a time when that has happened and that's a real shame.

Can I ask what your sons have been smoking?

What evidence in the last 5 years has given them any belief that Everton can win the Premier League in the next 5 years? That is ridiculous.

And expect us to win the FA Cup this season? What? Why? How? Absolute madness.

Delusional thinking.

I have read your posts and they are defeatist mediocre drivel aimed to lower expectations.

The club needs supporters with ambition, not the likes of you.

Nothing is impossible for a club like Everton, mate, honestly.

It's true that things have changed but, looking at the Premier League now, there are some very good teams but none that are really standing out and looking so much better than the rest. (Maybe Arsenal?)

The last game that Everton played at Goodison in 1983, there were about 13,000 spectators watching us play in a boring nil-nil draw. The team got booed off the pitch by a set of fans who had been desperately trying to raise the money by having a whip-round because the club was absolutely skint and the fans had appreciated how well Terry Curran had played whilst on loan, and wanted to help the club sign him.

Five months later, we were going back to Wembley, to play in our second cup final of the season, against Watford. If my memory is correct, things had already begun to change because I'm sure we signed Paul Bracewell on the weekend when we won the FA Cup.

Twelve months later we had become Champions of England, massively helped by the signing of Bracewell, won the European Cup-Winners Cup, and probably only lost against Man Utd because the FA Cup Final came too soon after our victory on the Wednesday night in Rotterdam.

This is all fact, like it's a fact that David Moyes always concentrated on a league he couldn't win instead of sometimes going after the cups, like Howard Kendall did all those years ago.

Moyes isn't a bad manager, but he could be a lot better, and this is hopefully something he proves to the people who don't quite believe in him in the near future.

He gave you your best times, Jamie, but he would have never lasted so long in any other era before we got a chairman who just kept hanging on. If you look at the overall history of Everton Football Club, I think this would be proven.

We all want the same thing. We laugh or cringe at our neighbours because we definitely wouldn't want to be them, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from them, though.

Listen to the words of a previous chairman when he told everyone we had a very loyal but demanding crowd (another thing Liverpudlians probably learned from us).

Watch how our neighbours are full of positivity and always believe until the end, and start believing ourselves; otherwise, things won't really change and Evertonians will continue arguing about the most mediocre era in our entire history.

I am ambitious. I already said in one of my previous posts that we can potentially repilcate what Tottenham have done in the last 15 years or so. In comparison to the last 30 years -- that would be a big success.

It's not defeatist -- it's realism.

To say Everton can win the Premier League in the next 5 years and we should 'expect' to win the FA Cup this season is just silly and quite frankly insulting. There is no evidence why we should be thinking like that.

Have you seen Manchester City's and Arsenal's squads? Their resources? And this is just two clubs we would have to knock off their perch to win a league title.

Sorry but you are talking absolute nonsense.

I am not lacking ambiton or accepting mediocrity -- I'm just not prepared to take part in these fantasy games where there is absolutely no evidence of it whatsoever.

Last season, Crystal Palace won their first ever FA Cup and Newcastle won their first cup for 70 years.

Yet Jamie seems to think it is beyond the realms of the rational world that Everton could do likewise this season. In fact, he sees the proposition as “absolute madness”.

LMFAO.

Having ambition and targets that are not realistically attainable are not the same thing.

Our editor Michael can add the laughter track later.

I never said Everton couldn't win a trophy this season.

You said your sons expect Everton to win the FA Cup this season.

I said there is no evidence why we should expect to win any trophy this season. You can have ambitions to win a trophy -- but expect? No, come on now.

I replied with "absolute madness" that Everton can win the Premier League title in 5 years time.

Please stop twisting my words.

Would you like to explain to me the steps Everton will take within the next 5 years to win that elusive 10th league title?

I'd like to hear it to back up this warped thinking. This is gonna be a good one!

I mean, if you're gonna make such outlandish statements, I'd appreciate it if you could back it up with some intelligent reasoning and analysis?

Everton were leading by a couple of goals and it had just started snowing. I looked around and everyone was smiling, with plenty laughing and joking, and I still remember thinking to myself that I'd never really seen this much before.

I obviously had: the first time was when Andy King scored on a day that made me realise just how fucking lucky Everton Football Club actually were to have so many amazing, passionate supporters, as well as loads of absolute lunatics who you could tell just loved our football club, in the crowd. (I was 7.)

Anyway, the way the crowd suddenly changed that night against Oxford has never left me because it was the first time I'd sensed real change.

You have probably seen it yourself fleetingly. Beating Man Utd on penalties, that Dan Gosling goal. Ferguson against Man Utd, or the noise when Arteta equalised against Fiorentina?

Maybe this was surpassed by Doucouré against Bournemouth, or when Dominic scored with that diving header against Palace? But the difference with the crowd on that night against Oxford was that it stayed that way for the next few years.

This is a genuinely and rightfully proud club that can,and fucking will, return to the top!

I'm not sure Paul Tran would bet on it but it is attainable. If needed, a discussion of financial concentration among the big shit six and the constant supply of capable talent to the Premier League could be had.

In the era you are talking about, there were mutliple clubs who could win the league each season. But football is a business now and the financial gap between Everton and the elite is far too big to bridge (even with the new stadium).

I mean, if this trophy drought goes on for another 20 years, are fans still going to be banging on about "NSNO" and how Everton should always be challenging for league titles?

You have to move with the times and it seems many of the older generation haven't.

I keep getting questioned about my levels of ambition as an Evertonian but it's nothing to do with that.

Know your place in the pecking order and 130 years of history is irrelevant to what's happened in the last 30 years. Replicating Spurs' last 15 years or so is likely this club's ceiling -- and I would snap your hand off for that.

Be proud of the club's long-term history and never forget. But remember who we are now and who we have bee in the past 30 years.

Yes, this 30-year period is Everton's most mediocre -- and by some distance. Before all of this, there was either a league title or FA Cup win every 15 years or so.

But top flight football in 2025 is not remotely close to how it was in 1985.

Obviously the FA Cup win over Man Utd in 1995. As a 10-year-old boy, to see Everton lift major silverware was incredible, then the Charity Shield a few months later against the Premier League Champions Blackburn Rovers. Fantastic times.

Tim Cahill's goal against Newcastle at Goodison that got us Champions League qualification.

The 3-0 win over Liverpool at Goodison and Andy Johnson's double.

That incredible game in the Europa League against Fiorentina and Arteta's magical goal.

Big Dunc's towering header against Man Utd when the roof came off at Goodison when we got a 1-0 win on the way to Champions League qualification.

And last but not least the 3-2 over Wimbledon. Like most Evertonians, at half time after Gary Ablett's own-goal, I thought we were dead and buried but the emotion I felt that day I haven't felt since, even when we won the FA Cup.

Off the top of my head, they would possibly be my top moments. I really was born at the wrong time, wasn't I!

Leicester City is a good example of an unexpected outlier lucking into a golden opportunity. Yes, it could happen to us, and anyone else (Villa maybe?) as a one-off... but I can see Jamie's point that to have the sustained level of success that our fans wish for isn't feasible right now.

For that we need a complete overhaul of the management of the club which hopefully TFG are pursuing with an aim to Make Everton Great Again, but as they can't or won't throw shedloads of money at the problem, it's going to be a painfully slow process.

And don't forget, other clubs can and will throw shedloads of money at their problems and continue to make it tougher for everyone else.

I'll let you indulge in your fantasties and i'll stay rooted in reality with hopes and dreams of Everton reaching their realistic ceiling in the modern era.

Cheers!

Mindset is everything. You won't really achieve anything if you haven't got the will, no matter how much talent or skill you might have. Too many Evertonians have been sucked into having different beliefs through our downtrodden years.

Moyes was very unlucky against Chelsea; we played that game without three of our best players, right through the spine of our team. But looking at some of the teams we had, and remembering some of those games when we were either just not brave enough or just not savvy enough, then it usually came down to mindset in my own mind.

As for NSNO, I used to drive along the side of Stanley Park shaking my head and frothing at the mouth whilst thinking about the absolute temerity of the greatest player never to wear the shirt.

What an absolute fraud Bill Kenwright was. I still can't get my head around what he was allowed to get away with and how he lasted so long.

Everyone who is reading this, stop what you're doing for a couple of minutes because I'm calling for a seance at 4 O'Clock today!

Let's shut our eyes and think about Everton winning the FA Cup this May and imagine the outpouring of joy that is going to come out of every single Evertonian who was born in the wrong era… singing “We Shall Not Be Moved!”

Thanks for your reply, Jamie, yes we are from different eras and might see things differently.

That 72-point season under Martinez brought the fanbase closer together, I think, because we played some brilliant football home and away, a season when we could go to the game with no dread of watching for a long drawn-out game of defensive football but attacking with venom throughout the game.

Alas, Martinez couldn't get the defensive side of the game together and we faded away. Although there were two semi-finals in one season, same as under Gordon Lee, who got us to a final as well.

Yes, I think you are half-right in saying we never will win a Premier League title in your lifetime but you are only 40-odd years old so it's quite possible you are wrong as well.

I'm positive we will but I can't see it for quite a while, maybe not even under these new owners. They got Everton for a song and will make brewsters when and if they sell us because I believe that the future is bright for the North End of the city -- and that includes our club.

Little apples will grow again and my sons, grandsons and great grandsons will see that title, most of them for the first time. That includes my youngest great grandson who doesn't even know he's going to be a great Everton fan very soon!

Best of luck in the future, Jamie. Your loyalty isn't in doubt and you'll get some absolutely marvellous days enjoying it.

Yes, I remember the two semi-finals -- I was in the Gwladys Street for the first leg when we beat Man City 2-1. That side of Stones, McCarthy, Barkley, Lukaku -- it was decent, wasn't it?

One particular game I was at was a drab 0-0 draw at Swansea (I live in Pembrokeshire, so only 1 hour away) but Stones was head and shoulders above everyone on that pitch. He was a colossus.

I knew he was going to develop into a star -- just a shame it wasn't at Everton -- but it was a big fee at the time and he wanted to move, so what can you do?

Well, we can all hope and dream mate and if there's anything in this life I hope I'm wrong about -- it's my belief in Everton's ceiling.

Here's hoping! All the best to you, mate, and Happy New Year to you.

He clearly loved the club, he just didn't have the financial clout or know-how to take it forward.

But now... the future is bright... the future is Blue.

If they're all being honest there must've been 40,000 there that night! Tax dodging at the turnstiles? Funny thing is, there was room to dance a waltz round the Bullens, so 13,000 is my bet.

I think we'll win the league before I die and I'm 67. I'm sure we'll win the FA Cup within 5 years. We're a sleeping giant and the new stadium makes a massive difference.

If you don't think Everton will rise again... that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I'm a believer. Up the fucking Toffees!

I really do not like the term ‘Moyes haters'. It's childish and churlish and dead lazy. Criticising Moyes is not hating Moyes. I'm not all roses about Moyes but he is doing a decent job at the moment and I don't know him so how on earth can I or anyone else hate him?

It seems that you and anyone else who uses your term are seeking some sort of aggressive retaliation. Grow up.

Happy New Year, Jamie mate - 53. I hate to be pedantic but FYI, the first CDs were with us in 1982 and the first gestation of the Internet was 13 years earlier, in 1969.

Mark, I was at that Coventry game and also Oxford. I was waving at you at the Coventry game because there was a 22-foot gap between the two of us.

Ah, shite, play abandoned in the Test when we are doing so well. Typical cheating Aussie raindancers.

I've wondered for many years now if the glory days would ever return, and yes we were spoiled in the 80s ,but I can't help but think the club is on an upwards trajectory at last.

I don't love Moyes but the fella is doing a great job at the moment with the current squad; he is certainly the right man at this point in time.

And I was in the 13,000 crowd for the Coventry game (as was John P) and, to be honest, there was less than that way before the end!

Did you stay to the “bitter” end, Mark!?

Yes, I was at the Coventry game with the other 13,000 diehards... and yes, I stayed to the end.

My golden rules I have passed on to my sons and grandsons is never boo and never leave early – no matter what the score is – painful sometimes to stay when your team is being outclassed. But that's why we are called supporters.

Ironically, the same posters usually pivot from abusing their fellow supporters for having ambition to defending the manager. Even though no-one criticised him!

But my absolute favourite remains the assertion that Everton will never win the Premier League again, and that expecting to win the FA Cup this season is “absolute madness”.

Dumbing down of expectations at a world-class level -- Bill Kenwright would be so proud.

I agree with the post above; we're a sleeping giant, and getting the stadium over the line was a key factor. Our sliding doors moments were the recent relegation scraps.

Yes, good rules — stay to the end and never boo.

Those who stayed to the end of that pathetic 0-0 draw v Coventry on a freezing cold day might remember Howard Kendall coming on to the field and shaking hands with every player coming off the field. They might have thought it was a vote of confidence in the players. I thought he was giving two fingers to those of us who not only stayed to the bitter end but had to witness the shambles of a performance,

One of those players Howard shook hands with never played for Everton again, if I'm not mistaken. Billy Wright, Tommy Wright's nephew or cousin, he was sold not long after that game.

Was it the same season we played Coventry in the League Cup with only 11,000 watching and Peter Reid came on as a sub and changed the game? I think that was the night of “ the leaflets asking for Kendall to go.

It's not something I would normally disagree with, Rich, because yes those mid eighties were absolutely brilliant and the perfect time to be an Evertonian. But when you look at the paragraph above, it seems to me that you're agreeing with the people who are saying “we should know our place?” with opinions that are raising the general standards of this boring and bitter website!

I actually wouldn't argue with that last bit, by the way, Rich, because at least Jamie C got a mixture of respect and ridicule, but most importantly, he got people debating in the old ToffeeWeb way.

Fuck them seances — I went to one of them, more of a prayer and belief meeting — two people were brought on to the stage, one was in a wheelchair and couldn't walk, the other had a severe speech impediment.

The preacher said to them: “I'm going ask you to go behind the curtain at the back of the stage while we pray for you.” After a quiet spell of about 5 minutes, he said, “Will the man who can't walk get up out of your wheelchair and walk a few steps and the man who can't speak say something?"

After a couple of minutes, the audience heard a voice from behind the curtain saying in a jumbled voice, “There's a fuckin' man fell over here — I think he needs some help!”

We get a super rich owner, but they put up a safety fence around the most recent successful clubs by restricting how much clubs can spend. Just our luck!

How are we going to get a quality squad together if you can't buy the players you need? Sure, you can be smart and produce 1 or 2 top players... but I doubt that will be enough to seriously compete.

If we were allowed to buy say 6 extra players with the ability of Dewsbury-Hall, Grealish, Ndiaye or Pickford, then it's more like a fair contest.

Problem is: we can't. As I said earlier, the rules need to change.

But if we can get the club back into the condition it was in when we were successful before, rather than the self-serving Kenwright years, then we might just replicate that past performance.

That's down to TFG now, do you believe they'll do it? Or be another Chairman Bill, happy to make money on their investment with no real progress?

Ironically that was probably the last Everton game I saw until after we won the first cup. I went to work in Spain (as an Intasun rep) and missed the big games that everyone enjoyed.

I got to the odd game when I came home for a winter break, including the Sheedy free-kick game v Ipswich, and managed to get to a couple of semi-finals but being abroad until the 90s meant I missed out on the glory years.

If anyone wants to sponsor me, I'll happily go back to being a rep in Spain if it means we'll win something again! COYB

The reason I have always regretted not continuing to study history is because it is one of the few things we have got in front of us from which we can genuinely learn (even though this never seems to be the case for large parts of humanity), so I personally don't think that TFG will get anywhere near the grace that Bill Kenwright got.

TFG are here to make money and, if they can make Everton better, then I certainly wouldn't begrudge them. But if they can make Everton what we have been before, quite a few times over the course of our history, then maybe they might just “get touched” like many people have been touched by our football club right throughout our history.

For this to happen, then first we have got to win a trophy, and maybe... just maybe, the explosion that this is certain to create might just make TFG realise that they have bought something that could be very, very special indeed.

Fair enough on Leicester City but none of us fear Arsenal and Aston Villa is roughly of Everton standard, so my extra claim is that the top of the Premier League looks like paper fortress stuff.

At some point, the money-motivated players become less invincible whether distracted or too soft for the Premier League. Typically, the ones constantly asking for fouls to be called. None of the sides at the top are ruthless systems of football genius.

The top of the Premier League is as vulnerable to turnover as it has been since the Premier League started. We will see if Leicester City was a canary in the gold mine.

Honestly, my favourite criticism of David Moyes is the "He got paid well". It's fucking ridiculous. He did get paid well.

He also outperformed those who followed him, with minimal transfer budgets, so there's an argument that he earned the wage, certainly more than the guy who did one full season, left at the first opportunity, and then fucking sued us.

Did he earn the money?

Funny, because I thought that was the first 10 years of Everton in the Premier League, where we constantly finished in the bottom half, punctuated by a Joe Royle triumph.

As for TFG, I don't see them progressing us as quickly as some fans seem to expect, to do that, they need an increase in income or to invest more, yet they are already taking money out, money that could be used to immediately improve the squad.

Unfortunately they are the only game in town so will have some grace unless they sell on for a quick profit.

And that leads me onto Dale #94, there's always the chance that any team can win something, remember Portsmouth? But those teams that consistently win have squad numbers of talented players throughout the team. Something we don't have and will take many seasons to get.

Just look at our bench last game when we had 4 key players missing, full of Under-21s and goalkeepers.

The degree to which some Evertonians have had their expectations managed is there for all to see. Moyes is as guilty as anybody for that. In fact, more so than most.

Anyone reading this thread could be forgiven for believing the younger members of our fan base haven't just had their expectations managed. They have also had the part of their brain which harbours hope and ambition removed.

Thank fuck that's not what I see when I look at the magnificent support given by thousands of Young Blues on matchdays.

We've not been able to invest in the squad for years, and so to get to the European spots, if it happens, would be 'exceeding expectations'. There's no shame in that, we are where we are.

You can't go from fighting relegation to winning stuff in 9 months. No matter how much you wish it weren't so.

I never said it was 'absolute madness' to expect Everton to win the FA Cup this season. I said it about your son's assertion that Everton will win the Premier League in the next 5 years, you cheeky sod.

That's twice now in seperate posts you have said something I didn't say and I won't accept it.

I don't mind having a difference of opinion but what I won't accept is complete lies being told about what I have said or haven't said and the twisting of my words. There is no need for it

I'm still waiting for you to tell me the steps how Everton are going to miraculously win the league in the next 5 years.

So what's the problem?

I've asked you three times now and you still haven't had the decency to give me a reply.

And you're saying Everton are going to win the Premier League in the next 5 years.

You better check yourself before you wreck yourself. Now you just look silly. We can't even beat Brentford at home. Embarrassing. Time for a reality check.

Given a choice, I'd have taken that all day, just as long as we can beat the next team which plays in red and white at our stadium.

The league is a marathon, especially right now with our very small and limited squad currently depleted. But if we can beat Sunderland, sign a couple of players, and then get a few of our better players back, surely we will get enough points on the board to make trying to win the FA Cup our Number 1 priority.

If Everton go out of the cup next week, then I think it will affect the fans a lot more and for much longer than today's loss.

Good to see you on here, I hope you and yours are doing well.

You said you can't go from fighting relegation to winning stuff in 9 months?

On 28 December 1983, we were 17th... and 5 months later, we won The FA Cup!

In November 1994, we were bottom of the Premier League... and 6 months later, we won The FA Cup!

As with many others, I have followed the discussions on this website for many years and have thoroughly enjoyed the insight from many of the contributors. However, since the revamp and take-over of the site, we have seen that many frequent contributors have apparently moved away to pastures new and for me at least, it feels like what was once a bit of a “closed shop” in terms of an established heirachy of contributors has been refreshed and we are now seeing some more diverse views alongside many long-term regulars.

My comments were intended as a positive comment on the site. And yes, positive and negative comments on any post are to be expected and are exactly what healthy debate is all about, as you say, maybe encouraging signs that this site is getting back to where it once was.

Looking forward to reading more from you on here.