David Moyes praises Michael Keane following 3-1 win at Craven Cottage

He's a bit unfairly treated in my opinion. He's not great, but he's been decent, and struggled when asked to be the player he isn't. He's not a high line, possession in the backline player.

I'm glad he got a goal which surely signs off for us. Mind you, where are we signing a 4th choice centre back from?

Messi like….

Messi was normally receiving diagonals, not pinging them like Mick Kegger was this afternoon.

I'm not a fan of Michael Keane as a CB at all, but credit where's its due, he had a good game today. And he has always had an eye for goal.

Seriously though, you clearly had a great day Martin and why shouldn't you enjoy it and shout about it. UTFT

Martin had a good day.

Hyperbole on ToffeeWeb... a first surely?

Probably like a lot of us, I was concerned when I saw the line up, particularly a back four including Keane & Young, followed by an atrocious first half, incredibly we went in level. Subs really made a difference. Well done there Mr Moyes and Pickford my MoM. Finally. Saints held City to a nil, nil draw too. Interesting day/game next week then for numerous reasons.

But on their day, when it all comes together, with no major blunders and an eye for goal…you can almost pretend all those other games didn’t happen where you were hiding behind the couch.

And no matter what I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for the two of them.

Band Wagons eh ?. Some people can do no wrong and some cant do any right. Keane is a better passer of the ball than Tarkowski and has a goal in him. He's meant to be the error prone one, but anyone who cares to take a closer look at the goals we have conceded this season will know otherwise.

I fully expect us to win our last three games without our irreplaceable Mr dependable

I don’t begrudge Keane the odd goal he scores for us, but the player is a liability and we need to get rid.

He’s so slow in defence that when he cramps up like he did today even our medical staff don’t seem to notice.

Keane played really well. Cramp? I've suffered from it when I've played after a long absence. It didn't surprise me, especially on a warm day with the sun beating down. More than most of the players, whenever there was a pause, he was straight over to get water down his neck, so he was obviously conscious of it.

I imagine that he is very popular in the dressing room and that matters. Some of the shite about him on here that touches on the personal is fucking shameful. He was once a better defender than he is now. It's now time to part company with my warm wishes and many others I'm sure.

Remember who scored the first vital goal against Palace on 19 May 2022?

By the way most of the defence made mistakes at the start of the season some more than Keane including Pickford.

He also got a screamer from outside the box against Tottenham in 2023 in the 90th minute that gave us a vital point. I was fortunate enough to be in the Upper Gwladys and saw it arrowing towards the goal like an Exocet missile.

It was fortunate the net caught it and not the bonce of some inspecting supporter behind the goal, as I think the St John's team would have had to be called to the rescue!!

Dave, he has mostly been very poor for us during his time here with good performances being the exception, not the norm. As an ex defender, obviously nowhere near his level, he frightens me most of the time.

I can see him going back to Burnley. He's a north-west lad and has spent his career at Manchester United, Burnley and Everton, so can't see him straying to far from the nest.

Let's see whether Moyes wants to keep him. A guy I was talking to yesterday gave an opinion on the team selection, saying it could be Moyes giving some of those out of contract a chance to prove themselves.

Not an opinion I shared as they have had several seasons to do that, but an interesting thought nonetheless.

He has played in some fucking awful defensive systems under previous managers. He never hides and has always stepped up when needed.
He also has a better goal scoring strike rate than most of our forwards.

As a defender, he’s always been prone to the odd cock-up as well though (concentration lapses?).

I wouldn’t be surprised if he was offered a deal, it depends how much he wants to play.

We were lucky to go in level at half time and had we not levelled the game Moyes has said he would have made the changes at half time. The changes when they did come were effective and produced the turnaround in the game. I thought Keane had a very good game and has always been the most productive goal scorer from set pieces of any of our current defenders. Also the delivery from McNeil was superb unlike the dross from dead ball situations we have had to watch from Garner and Harrison.

I hope this game once and for all showed Moyes that if we hope to be in the top half of the league next season then we cant have Harrison or Doucoure in the team.
Finally take a bow our wonderful away fans even when we were losing all you could hear was our fans singing from beginning to end. Mind we shouldnt be surprised they have been doing this for years, mainly unnoticed by the media, were yesterday they had to acknowledge how good they are.

He is not and never has been a top flight CB. Defensively he is one of the poorest players I have ever seen at Goodison Park (and I've seen some shockers)

Nice guy, undoubtedly got a goal in him and can strike a ball, but one decent game yesterday does not make up for the dozens and dozens he has been out of his depth. Good luck Michael and hope you find another club on a decent contract.

His Everton career is highlighted by some of the best goals in each season but thes are heavily out weighed by the defensive mistakes he has made over the years.

Time for the new era at Everton to start.

They'll be other players, leaving Everton as we and for the right reasons.

UTFTs!

I was there yesterday because I love the place, but have reigned in my away trips this season, because they were taking me longer to get over than the players, but trust me mate. There are not many games Michael Keane has played for Everton that I havent seen. I didnt just start watching him this season.

As it happens, I don think we have had a decent center half for years. I'm not saying it was always the players fault, because playing with a back nine (as we have tended to do) can be an awful lot more complicated than playing in a back four.

James Tarkowski is a formidable presence in both boxes and he is fantastic when sitting deep defending his box But his game can be encapsulated in that one sentence. Stand him up against a counter attack or quick feet and he is as bad as it gets. As agricultural as they come. That may be all that is required to fight relegation (which he seems to have done most his career), but there is a reason why he doesnt get into the top half. There is a reason why the big boys have never knocked on his door.

You seem to be suggesting that Michael keane cant be complimented for performances this season because he has (like all our other defenders) been poor in the past. I simply don't agree. dierent managers and systems bring out different performances in a player - Chris Wood ?

what I do know is Tarkowski seems to be bomb proof. It doesnt matter how bad he gets, somebody else will always get the blame.

for every mistake you can name that Keane has made leading to a goal this season. I think I could name you four from Tarks.

I'll have a little sporting bet with you Dave, if you are up or it.

We beat a very good Fulham side without Tarkowski yesterday. I bet you a shilling we win our two remaining games without Mr irreplaceable too. .

However in my view the reaction on here to the teamsheet was understandable. (Personally I wasn't aware O'Brien had an injury).

The first half sort of justified some of the concern.

But credit where it's due - he made changes (early) and the second half was a different story.

End of the day, we got 3 points against a team fighting for Europe, away from home, and the management, the players, and the fans who were there deserve credit.

James Tarkowski got plenty of stick for his early season performances——are you sure he has made four times the mistakes Keane has made?

I think Tarkowski offers more to the team than just defending, he organises the defence, ordering them where to go, a great captain who tries to sort out the many arguments with referees, no top team has come in for him— I think Man. Unt. would be a better team with him rather than the very expensive McGuire, no top team has come in for Pickford either!

Yes I’ll have that little bet with you £5– to go to your favourite charity or mine and I definitely hope I lose the bet!

However, when Moyes first took over at Everton, one of the major tactical things he did was to move the defensive line higher up the pitch by replacing stout but slow defenders like Weir and Stubbs, with faster players like Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott and Distin.

I think he'll be aiming for the same thing this time around - but if he doesn't have the funds available, he might re-sign Keane for cover on a 2 year deal.

He's going down with the Foxes and I am still puzzled as to why we passed up the opportunity to keep him.

As for Keane, I'm always pleased to see him score or have a good game. And I echo the posts praising him for going public about his mental wellbeing.

Most families can cover their costs on £40k a week. So might he stay albeit upon significantly reduced terms? Will he be able to get more money elsewhere? He has the ability to be a real asset to a Championship team.

I have a feeling that he will be staying and for all his shortcomings, he will always give absolute commitment. As a squad player, I would not argue with a decision to offer him a contract.

As the transfer Window opens this will be the first stage.The next stage then will be strengthening the squad.Moyes's will want as little change as possible.

Bringing players into the first team will not be immediate unless a few are needed.More likely to join the squad and be gradually introduced.

Moyes did tactically out smart Silva.Silva thought the team could continue as the first half and win.Normally he would have made a tactical change , but didn't.Even after the game he seem to be of the same mind.

I don't think any of Evertons goals were lucky.Players were in positions to shoot and did.

I agree, Ryan. We will bring in new players, but we will retain some of those out of contract or currently on loan. Who they are on both counts is anyone's guess.

On the rare occasion he plays with confidence he’s ok. He has a number of vast shortcomings. But he can strike a ball well.

However, I can’t think of many poorer players that have played so many games for the club.

Any suggestions?

Certainly not a weakness Tarks shares.

On the ‘did the manager start the wrong players’ debate I’m of the opinion that it was always going to be about using around 15 players well over 90 plus minutes. The manager has earned the right to experiment with the tactics / squad a bit. Overall he remains accountable for the results. Yesterday, by hook or by crook, he made it work out in the end.

I'm sure you've both separately acknowledged at some point when good attempts that didn't go in were 'unlucky'. So being honest and admitting we had some luck doesn't denigrate from the players who scored by taking their 'chances'. We definitely need more of that.

- The goal acts as a decisive, final blow(ending the opponent’s chances). It emphasizes closure (the tactical play achieved its purpose). Even if luck played a role, the outcome is irreversible. When you look at the goals they all look the result of Professional play. In modern football that is percentage play and trained and planned for.

Sealed the game. killed off the contest. Noone will argue that that was not achieved,

If Everton consistently played football like that they will get results.

Only an idiot would believe Mykolenko intended his shot to ricochet off the defender and completely wrong-foot the goalkeeper after we had been out-played for the entire half?

Forget the goalkeeper error. That's his fault, but if Alcaraz's pass for Beto had gone where he had initially played it, it was going behind him. "Fortunately" it clipped the retreating defender and landed right into the big man's path. Game over.

Luck rears its head to some degree in every game of football; it's part and parcel. When it goes in your favour, you embrace it; when it goes against you, you curse it. Fuck knows it goes against us often enough.

I'll take all the luck we can get, but I won't deny it when it comes our way. If people want to delude themselves that Mykolenko and Alcaraz intended those fortuitous deflections, then more fool them.

A bit like when it doesn't come off, I will often say "Right idea, unlucky". Luck works both ways.

Mykolenko did all he could do. Get the ball towards the goal. You are taught that as a player from a very young age.

I know as fact that you would be delighted to lose the bet. In the scheme of things, a fiver would be nothing against the obvious love you have for this club.

I like your idea that the loser pays his fiver to a charity of the other's choice. Mine would be Cancer Research for numerous personal reasons.

BTW, Dave. We may not agree on Tarkowski, but we do agree on one thing: I hope you lose the bet too.

Mykolenko and Beto both “bought a raffle ticket" — and both won!!

I don't like discussing luck, because somebody will surely come along and quote a famous golfer — as if relentless practice and two lucky deflections amount to the same thing.

I'm happy to be lucky. I have seen my team suffer the alternative on too any occasions not to be.

Rob,

Agreed, but we have people on here denying they bought a raffle ticket.

I genuinely get what you're saying. Luck is part and parcel of football as it is in life.

Sometimes it goes for you, sometimes against you. Like betting on a horse or thinking an expensive meal to a girl may lead to something.

Mykolenko and Beto took a chance. They put it on target and got lucky. Had they sliced it into the stands, they would have been crucified.

They didn't and they scored.

Fortune favours the brave. They made their own luck.

And hey, Everton officially has a CEO on the job this morning. It's Angus Kinnear's first day of work. Let's see some signings by lunchtime, eh?

You described Alcaraz's pass as pure vision. Take another look. His poorly executed pass benefited hugely from a deflection which took it right into the path of Beto.

You think he earned that? I personally think he got lucky, because it was not a difficult pass to make.

I think Beto "earned" his luck because he got his shot on target. Not his fault the keeper made a complete hash of it.

Sometimes we over analyse football. Alcaraz had one thing on his mind and the intent was there. Beto got his shot on target and scored to put us 3 - 1 up.

I'll leave the goalkeeper's discussion to the goalkeeper's union. I personally think it was a great worked goal and the keeper was caught out, not expecting it. The flight and speed of the ball in real time is very different to what we see on the screen with the benefit of hindsight. I'll leave that to the pundits.

All that matters is that we won, regardless of whether it was lucky or not.

We didn't have many lucky shots or through balls in the early part of the season simply because we didn't do it that much.

We did have some bad breaks in our own half or our own box. Well that's where the ball lived for about 18 matches. It's logic rather than curse.

I did think it was a bit rich that people on here complained that VAR tried their best to stop us. We just got a couple of good breaks. If that happened to us you just know there would be those claiming a conspiracy... "Of course a referee finally stands by his decision when it's us!".

For what it's worth, I was a bit surprised by that handball decision. I thought it was a modern penalty (ie the ones I don't like but they seem to get given). Likewise they they were pretty quick to ok Alcaraz's pressure on the keeper. It was almost like common sense unusually prevailed.

Just enjoy the game. They're fighting, they're actually contributing in the opponent's half.

Yes the bet is on and I do donate to Cancer Research and I understand why Mike @(57) suggests it but I also donate a bit more to “ CONCERN” which is a Third World charity and helps people in those countries to have their own working business which helps them and also people in their community.

Come on Beto and Co. help Colin to win this bet!

Yes it.It all percentages and the better sides avail of the higher percentage A bit of extra skill or tactics gives more opportunities and better percentages.

If you waited on the great move and great finish in the Premier League you will wait, because the opposition is out to reduce the percentages all the time.Actually a walk through goal is considered a soft goal

Nothing to do with Chance, Providence, Luck, Fortune Those things don't exist.

The guy who collected after the horse he backed had been trailing a distance third only for the front two to come down at the last fence... was working on percentages ?

Hehehe

He got passed a couple of times but that happens and Fulham were really mobile. Full backs can't be good in isolation now only with good defenders alongside and a good midfielder to protect them. He could be a gem yet.

McNeil was pretty excellent when he came on as was Iroegbunam.

Thats a relief. I was thinking about the two golfers on the green. One gets struck by lightning and the other doesn't. I've been racking my brains wondering which one of them was playing the percentages.

So, luck pervades in every walk of life... but it by-passes the Premier League?

Got it.

Michael Keane bullied the defence and smashed it into the net. How it got there is irrelevant.

Alcaraz saw the run and played the pass. How it got there is irrelevant.

Beto ran onto the pass and slotted it past the keeper. How it got there is irrelevant.

Three goals.

He played for England 12 times.
UTFT

As for luck? It's nice to get some occasionally and we were lucky that Moyes came back.
Phew.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/spieltag/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2024&spieltag=15

65-70 point range.

I think the only time we were heavily represented in my living memory was the World Cup in 1986. In that infamous match against Argentina, we had 4 players on the pitch. Stevens, Steven, Lineker and poor Peter Reid chasing Maradona's shadow in a race that was already lost.

If we would've had a UK or GB team at the time, we had the Welsh Keeper, England right back, Welsh centre-back and left-back, England's right midfielder, the centre-midfield in Reid and Bracewell (who should have played for them more), and two Scottish centre-forwards. If Sheedy hadn't have opted for Eire, it would have practically been Everton. That's how good we were.

The mention of Carlton Palmer reminds me of Graham Taylor's "grafters". Possibly the worst England team I've seen, even though I'm not into the England thing. Those who follow England more closely may be able to contest that.

I think we've done the Moyes thing to death. He's been given the recognition he deserves, even those like myself with reservations.

He will be better judged in the course of a full season (hopefully) with better players available to him. Not 17 games. Let's hope he gets the chance and gets it right.

What they call week 21 these days is here https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/spieltag/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2024&spieltag=21