Ronald Koeman has admitted he is not confident that Ross Barkley will sign the new contract Everton have offered him.
Under press questioning during his last pre-match interrogation of the 2016-17 season, he was asked about the status of negotiations over the 23-year-old's future:
“If you offer a player a good contract, it means that you'd like to keep the player," Koeman said.
“I don't have to explain more because if we don't want the player to stay longer, then we [wouldn't] offer him a new contract.
Asked he if was confident that Barkley would agree to new terms in the next feew days, the manager said: “No. Because [he's spent a] long time thinking about his future.
"But I'm not worried, because I like to work with players who like to stay. Even without his decision we will go on and we are looking for players in that position "
"Even if he stays there will be more competition for him next season.
Barkley is entering the final year of his existing contract and Koeman has said that he needs to know whether the player will be extending his stay with the Blues by the end of the season.
"It is after the game, on Monday — then we will know it," Koeman said of Barkley's situation.
Reader Comments (326)
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1 Posted 19/05/2017 at 13:52:54
"It is after the game, on Monday – then we will know it," Koeman said about Barkley's situation.
Asked if he is confident the England midfielder will stay, he added: "No, because it is a long time that he is thinking about it.
"But I'm not worried, because I like to work with players who like to play."
2 Posted 19/05/2017 at 14:08:24
Koeman may well take his doubts as a personal affront to his ability to manage the team. In any walk of life if you're managing people and you have someone who's not committed at some point you move on. If he gets down on one knee and begs, what message does that send to the other players?
You're with us or you're not. Plenty of fish in the sea. Next.
3 Posted 19/05/2017 at 14:12:22
Incidentally there is a horse called Koeman running today at the 4:45 in Newbury. 33/1 - had a tenner on it.
4 Posted 19/05/2017 at 14:24:33
Yet he seemingly has no problem with Lukaku publicly pondering how serious Everton are in their pursuit of success, or confirming he will not be signing a new contract with the club.
5 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:16:48
6 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:24:43
His responses describe the situation accurately, sad to say. Everton have offered him a good contract; if Barkley hasn't signed it by this point...
But I don't think seeing Barkley featured in the kit promotion video necessarily means anything either way. They'd decided on a theme, and that theme was the local lads. Barkley is a local lad. End of.
7 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:34:46
Sigurdsson is an achievable transfer target, and he has managed a level of consistency that Barkley hasn't. He also is better on set pieces and has an increased goal threat. It would be good if Ross stays because he is still young, and is one of us. But he is not irreplaceable.
I think Ross enjoyed the Martinez style of management the hand around the shoulder and the exaggerated praise. Koeman's severity and reality perhaps have not been so well received.
But Koeman can give praise too and he has given some to Barkley on occasions, and to others too (most notably Lukaku). I don't think Koeman's style of management can be blamed for this, even if it may not have helped
8 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:39:00
These are meant to be professional sports writers. I don't know if I could be in the same room as the idiotic fuckers.
9 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:49:53
10 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:50:32
11 Posted 19/05/2017 at 15:52:52
12 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:08:57
If he goes, then we need two attacking midfielders. Difficult to find 1 never kind 2 and Koeman and Walsh will need time to source them.
13 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:10:35
Sure the questions are lame, but also the club is likely to lean heavily on the local press to steer away from topics or forcing the issue. Often if the manager wants to push something it's the perfect platform for a journalist to be allowed to ask. I personally rarely watch or pay attention to them.
I guess in return it makes them, the club, more open to pieces individuals want to do.
But on topic on this thread and others in recent days if you are good enough you will find a way to the top.
14 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:17:05
15 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:23:36
16 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:23:54
17 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:30:52
Bet you Spurs wish they took this approach years ago with Sol Campbell....
I'll be sad to see Barkley leave but, if he doesn't realize how lucky he is to be playing for EFC, then get whatever money we can.
18 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:39:03
Now everyone can have a take as to why he won't sign, but he has had this contract for many weeks and refuses to sign it. So, quite rightly, Koeman has said he only wants players who want to play for the club; he now has to plan our future without Barkley. Also, because of our early start next season, he and Walsh need to push on to strengthen the squad.
19 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:46:33
But then he's being paid a lot of money to put together a team that he can work with and who will do what he asks on the pitch.
20 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:48:30
21 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:48:55
"I hope so because I rate him and I want him to stay."
That's what I expect him to say but, as I say, only if he wants Ross to stay. What I read into his comments is that he couldn't care less because he'll spend the money on someone else he really fancies. It's clear he doesn't fancy him but I think Ross will stay, which is not a marriage made in heaven.
22 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:53:04
Ross should've made his mind up by now; we can't keep waiting then, all of a sudden, in a month he decides he wants to go.
23 Posted 19/05/2017 at 16:56:50
Perhaps Barkley's agent is just holding out to see if there is any interest or a better offer from Everton.
Let's face it, either way, we could do with another No 10.
24 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:06:41
25 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:28:31
26 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:30:53
Why the fuck people expect him to turn into Michael McIntyre when it comes to the point where he should be praising this player or that player is beyond me. Koeman is how he is, he aint gonna turn into Crusty the clown and crack a few one liners.
It's not his style to wax lyrical about players, surely people can see that by now. Read into things what you will "He doesn't like Ross", "he doesn't praise Ross", etc etc.
Bottom line is he's a very blunt, pragmatic, person who obviously doesn't do the "phenomenal" shite we had to put up with. Ross isn't a kid, he's a grown man and if Koeman's lack of love for him is the reason he doesn't seem eager to sign then that's something Ross has to deal with how he sees fit.
Koeman's played him in almost every game this season. Koeman has obviously given the board the nod to offer the new contract but he aint gonna take Ross to Macky D's for a bonding happy meal.
The contract's there (so it's obvious we want you to stay) if you feel the contract doesn't reflect your worth then it's your prerogative to not sign and move on.
27 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:32:06
Ross is not a boy any more. Time to man up and make a short statement like Rom, 'I won't be signing' end of.
Instead we have this media circus which quite honestly has become boring.
I would like to see him stay. However, I don't expect to hear anything before Monday at the earliest.
Perhaps deals will be done on Sunday, a 2 for 1 swap plus a bit of cash?
28 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:41:54
The only extra factor is the emotional pull of wanting a strong local presence in our team, and I definitely hope Ross stays, but that will always be overridden by the other factors involved. A goal scored by an Icelander or Dutchman, or any bought player, counts the same as a goal scored by a scouser or youth team product, but emotionally there'll always be a little something extra in the latter.
29 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:45:51
That's without spending a penny of our own money.
Let the bunfight begin!
30 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:47:01
Nobody forced him to give a public ultimatum, Nobody held a gun to his head and made him issue an idiotic public deadline.
His self inflicted discomfort is only just beginning
31 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:48:59
I predict come September, neither Lukaku nor Barkley will be at the club. As long as the cash received for them is spent wisely (please not on Rooney) then I personally am not fussed. Both did decent jobs but the club will always be infinitely more important than any player.
Also am just bored with the sagas, sign or bugger off, either way sort out asap given our first Europa League match is not that far away.
32 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:55:45
I will actually breathe a sigh of relief when this and the Lukaku saga is over. It's no good for the team.
33 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:56:37
Let him go; it's a team game.
34 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:56:43
If such a motivator and builder of team spirit can't bring it out of Barkley, it simply must be the player. Sell.
35 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:59:23
As many have said, if he want "to move up the ladder" to a top six, I fear he ll be no more than a bench warmer at best. Therefore I think this must be a personality clash and Ross wants to be loved. He's had enough stick on TW and from the fans that I think he just wants out.
Shame. But whilst he's good, I think we can and will replace with better.
36 Posted 19/05/2017 at 17:59:51
Get those teeth gnashing again!
37 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:10:33
If he doesn't want to sign, then the club can get on with finding a replacement and plan for life without him ASAP and there doesn't need to be dithering all summer in a "Will he or won't he sign it?" saga.
38 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:11:50
39 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:12:29
Personally if he leaves to Spurs, he'll find it hard to play regularly in that side plus we could get a proper Number 10 like Sigurdsson, Klaassen or Someone like Mata or Silva
40 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:12:40
"Sold as seen. . No returns!!"
41 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:16:44
I can understand that you can't get your head around money being a key factor. That's probably because, like me, you think what's a hundred grand a week compared to seventy grand, both figures are ridiculous and you and I (looking at it from our present point of view) would play for Everton for free!
However, lots of these players, local or not, ARE driven by money. I know it's hard to believe when they have SO much but they get caught up in the bubble of more more more, and it ruins some of them as normal people. Not saying for one minute that's what's happened with Ross mind.
42 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:29:42
The manager not praising him enough doesn't wash with me Roberto did plenty of that and Ross didn't improve his game.
Having lived to tell the tale when the peerless Alan Ball left us I won't shed any tears if Ross and Rom depart I think we can become a much better footballing side without them as neither are great at retaining possession or playing as part of a team.
43 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:40:37
Barkley the other way.
44 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:43:17
However, at the end of the season (next week), I fully expect that he'll announce his intention to leave..
45 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:44:12
Who knows if Koeman really fancies Ross Barkley as a player? But just because it's getting played out in public, surely it won't change the decision made by the player and whatever he decides to do.
46 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:49:59
Tony, from Koeman's whole stance and demeanour on Barkley since almost day one, do you really have to ask?
47 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:55:29
That can't be true even if it is true. Too many posters on TW know that Barkley isn't good enough for a top team, and will end up at a team like West Ham or Stoke.
48 Posted 19/05/2017 at 18:57:06
Koeman has both praised and criticized but again he's blamed for Ross's form. But, Martinez did nothing but call him phenomenal and make excuses for his mistakes and Ross was no more consistent than he is now.
So, if he doesn't respond to praise, doesn't respond to criticism, doesn't respond to a little of both, can we maybe say it's not all the managers fault if he's mediocre and wants to leave?
49 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:01:43
Personally, I'd prefer Ross and Lukaku to stay but if they're determined not to sign then they will need shipping out asap. No more dithering please.
50 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:12:51
Good luck to the lad elsewhere. Hope it works out for him.
51 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:22:34
If he does not like Koeman's manner and this is just speculation, and can't take it, then it's time he manned up.
Koeman has been a huge fan of Sigurdsson for years and I have always thought he would be our first signing of the summer, if Barkley goes, then this will only be enforced.
52 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:30:08
54 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:30:49
If he wants to go, good luck to him. He doesn't convince me. I think he's a talented player with something missing.
The important thing in all of this is how strong the team is at the start of the season.
55 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:34:14
56 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:35:28
I, like everyone else, wanted a local lad to succeed and drag our club (like Gerrard did) to finals and ultimately to trophies. Unfortunately, Barkley is not good enough; maybe Davies will be the one to do it...
57 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:38:31
And I think many here are far too harsh when analyzing Koeman's interview answers/statements. Many seem to forget that his 'statements' are actually answers to questions asked by the media. Koeman did not call a press-conference to once again tell about Barkley's time limit on signing his new contract.
Still, I feel Everton's and Koeman's approach in general is good. We need to build a new team, and if the ones we hope will be a part of it can't say they will be so before the transfer window opens, then we need to plan without them being a part of the long-term plans for the team!
58 Posted 19/05/2017 at 19:54:25
He does not deserve all this attention and Koeman is right to get rid now, and try and get a reasonable fee for him because, if he stays, he wont get a look-in.
59 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:09:51
He's been all over the place with this one, One minute he is issuing ultimatums, the next he is telling us he has nothing to do with negotiations and within a matter of hours he's back issuing deadlines... Too many people have come on telling us "honest Ron" is bossing this, but here he is telling us he hasn't got a fucking scooby what's going on.
Koeman could have done one of two things: he could have stayed the fuck out of it, like he claimed he was in the first place, or he could have pulled Barkley to one side privately and said "Listen, Plums, either sign or get to fuck"... He did neither. He decided to make it about himself by going public acting the big fella.
He has acted like a twat and from where I'm sitting, it looks very much as if Barkley is treating him like one.
60 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:12:33
61 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:25:22
I fervently hope Lukaku does not play on Sunday (this will not happen) sort of hope Barkley will (this may not happen either). If you don't want to play just jog on your way.
Next Wednesday, we can all watch Klaasen and Dolberg!!! I hope Ron resorts to some 'double dutch' and gets both in. I like some of the TW suggestions for players in – especially Iheanacho. Reward Jags with another year (2?)
As we now have lots of Thursdays to look forward to, at least the guy has given his all and still will, never moans – include Barry in this. A keeper two centre-backs, two midfielders, two strikers... that's before we sell. Enjoy the summer and the window. COYB.
62 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:33:01
When we bought Lukaku for £28m, and all the pundits who can't think for themselves said we'd overpaid, Everton fans knew it would turn out to be an absolute bargain. Any side that buys Barkley for £30m will be in just the same position three years down the line.
63 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:34:22
Koeman is our manager so he is the person the journalists get to speak too, not the majority shareholder or the chairman. So Koeman is stating the club's position. The club have decided that if Barkley doesn't sign this new contract then they are prepared to sell him rather than run down his contract. I don't see it as Koeman making ultimatums, sign and he is happy and not sign and he will find someone to fill that position.
As for Koeman not getting involved in contract negotiations, well he doesn't get involved in the financial arrangements. He has said on numerous occasions when a player and the club are talking money he doesn't get involved and I believe him.
But he will have had discussions with Moshiri and Kenwright over his plans this summer which either includes Barkley staying or going. Which you would expect any manager to do the same.
Maybe we should ask the question: "What do you intend, Ross, sign or leave?" – rather than put the whole blame on Koeman for this situation.
64 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:44:11
Football's changed because the players have all the power now, but people have gone soft, and treat the players like demi-gods now. When Barkley, slagged Roy Hodgson earlier in the season because he never played him at the World Cup, I remember Koeman shot him down, with words to the effect of, "Let your football do the talking, kid" and I for one couldn't help but agree with him, because I didn't even think that Barkley deserved to go the World Cup to begin with.
I do agree the deadline for Ross is a bit stupid though because, even if he says he wants to leave, we still can't get rid of him for another six weeks anyway!
65 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:45:52
I have to disagree. Firstly Koeman has said he did speak with Barkley. He has made it clear he wants him to stay and has also made it clear the club will sell him if he doesn't sign the new contract which is fair enough for me.
The one thing Koeman and Everton may not have taken into account is Barkley running down his contract and this might just happen for all we know.
I have said it before and will say it again this is all about the money; Barkley and his people think they are worth more than the contract that has been offered simple.
66 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:47:20
Koeman is a combative, impatient and inarticulate man who has blinked first and will look very stupid if he hasn't got a significantly stronger squad at the start of the season.
I think there's a very compelling case to let such an inconsistent player go at a price if he can get a replacement. Broadly speaking, I can see what Koeman's doing, but his methods lack subtlety and strategy I'd love to play cards with him, he'd be a gold mine!
67 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:53:21
68 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:57:10
69 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:59:06
He's far from inarticulate, he just doesn't go in for rambling phenominal bullshit.
70 Posted 19/05/2017 at 20:59:18
He claimed to have signed on as a pure manager, and is letting somebody else deal with the technicalities of signing players (Walsh/Club). Later he's said Walsh and he will need to agree on signings, maybe? I read it in the media...
Now, from those early proclamations, how can you still insist on seeing him as an SFA, or a DM? He clearly said he would not be that, even as he signed! He has replied to questions posed by journalists, telling how things look from his end... And the Bard could well teach him eloquence, but you or me, we severely lack the skill!
71 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:00:45
If not, I'm sure Ronald already knows his replacement.
72 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:02:45
Move to a current top 6 team and sit on the bench? No-brainier, Ross, grow up and sign.
None of the current top 6 will give you a guaranteed start, so stay and at least give your World Cup aspirations a chance.
73 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:03:40
He's trying to force the issue in a very clumsy way. I'm not bothered whether Barkley stays or goes. I am bothered about the quality of the squad come August.
Koeman looks like he wants to do business quickly. Good, he needs to. That's more important than one inconsistent player.
74 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:07:13
How can you take those foul words into your mouth? We are Everton! "Business quickly!, harrumph!!!" :D
75 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:09:36
If he believes the same would happen at Everton, then he is just as likely to chance his arm with a move away.
Me, I'm looking for the big wave for the fans at the end of the Arsenal game.
76 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:16:11
77 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:26:16
78 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:31:13
Hoping that his connection to the club gives them some leeway? This could be the reason why he isn't signing as he feels he is thought less of than Rom.
79 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:37:58
Alas, we haven't seen that carefree player since, a mystery and a sadness for our club. That's why I think he should go, why we will be better off without him and why he will be better off without us (or will at least give himself the main chance to be better).
80 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:38:06
81 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:39:39
Koeman's fine when he's his blunt self. It's when he tries to be clever that it all comes unstuck.
Doesn't make him a bad manager, though!
82 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:40:57
I suspect that nobody'll pay what the club will demand and that he'll continue in his numbskull stand-off, failing to realise that his not-too-bright-star will then fade faster than his appetite for a battle. That'll mean his chances of a better contract when his contract expires is unlikely to match even what he's on now, anywhere, because I expect we'll have signed better players for his position and he'll be more acquainted with the reserves as a consequence rather than the England team he seems to believe is his right in what will be a World Cup year.
I really don't think the ball's in his court, but does he realise it? And as for the monetary cost to us, well, that will be a test of togetherness for the owner and manager, but with their personalities I don't believe they'll budge one iota. It'd send out all the wrong messages to the rest of the squad, now and in the future. If Kenwright was top-dog it might well be different.
83 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:44:26
84 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:45:25
Ross has had ample opportunity and too seldom delivered consistently. I'd be sad to see him go as he does have talent but for whatever reason he has been unable to channel it to the level needed. I think he would do better at another club where less is expected of him either because their general expectation are lower (West Ham) or perhaps at a club where he will be rotated and not the sole creative outlet (Spurs).
Perhaps the pressure of being a local lad and 'our diamond' has been too much; his mentality appears the weakest aspect of his game.
85 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:50:04
He doesn't work hard enough, and takes too many touches of the ball, might both be, because of the personnel, and the way we currently play, or it might also be because Ross, is just not top drawer?
Who knows? I don't? but whatever he does, I hope the kid succeeds, simply because he's got loads of ability, and just needs to find a way to nit it all together, which is definitely the hardest thing to do.
86 Posted 19/05/2017 at 21:54:13
I think in general we will most likely start next season with a weaker team than this having spent (in relative terms) a lot of money.
Saying that, I think if the lad wants out, good luck to him; we have lost much better players in the past. I am with Koeman on this whatever the outcome, it needs to happen quickly.
87 Posted 19/05/2017 at 22:07:24
"(which if he does, sort of supports me)" .... And if he doesn't?
You have to laugh at how many "ifs", "buts", "I don't thinks" and "I suspects" people can cram into one post nonsensical babble
I particularly liked his "inferred threat" ... a stroke of genius from a "numbskull" who hasn't opened his mouth yet.
88 Posted 19/05/2017 at 22:15:00
Game changers in midfield are our biggest weakness and why we have won so few games away from home this season. We all know who we need Sigurdsson, if he wants to come here or someone similar.
90 Posted 19/05/2017 at 23:21:45
With just one year to run on his present contract, it's time to 'piss or get off the pot' for Ross. He could face a whole season in the Under-23s; looks like Niasse is an example of what might happen to him under Koeman otherwise.
91 Posted 19/05/2017 at 00:03:08
92 Posted 19/05/2017 at 00:03:35
Not good enough.
93 Posted 20/05/2017 at 00:10:40
It's all going according to plan.
94 Posted 20/05/2017 at 00:18:47
95 Posted 20/05/2017 at 00:31:01
Now Tony tells us he's heard that Tottenham want Sigurdsson back because he would be cheaper and need less "Work" than Barkley. Sigurdsson, who has apparently said in the week, that he wants to stay at Swansea...
Stop the ride and let me off.
96 Posted 20/05/2017 at 00:44:02
TW is set up for fans to give free-speech opinion. Opinion is subjective and, providing it's not libellous, acceptable. Without it, the world would be grey.
Credibility of opinion can deservedly be assessed by others, including you, even though unless somebody else has first contended a "stat" to your advantage it seems you believe all opinion different to your own is, de facto, baseless.
With respect, to a fellow Evertonian, that's sad.
97 Posted 20/05/2017 at 01:05:34
There's no doubt the bloke has talent but the problem lies with the fact that his brain refuses to engage with his body which affects his decision-making under pressure. I'm sure at the training ground that's probably where he does his best work.
Unfortunately, in the heat of battle, especially in today's game where the majority of teams (not Everton) don't allow you time on the ball, he's constantly dispossessed, pushed off the ball, falls over, takes the wrong option...
When he finally releases the ball or takes the soft and safe option of passing backwards, even when we are behind in a game, suggests to me that he's never going to fulfil the potential we all hoped and prayed for because he is one of our own.
98 Posted 20/05/2017 at 01:15:46
This is a bit harsh, IMO. But, in terms of his performances, which is the most important thing for the team, he can be brilliant and he can be awful. Very inconsistent, regularly dithers but also makes incisive passes from time to time.
Question is this made more difficult with the overall quality of the players around him now and would the key for Ross be unlocked if he were in, say, a Spurs side with its wealth of players who move intuitively into positions to receive and worry about making dummy runs that open up the space for others to receive?
We seem to have only a few who do this well and too many times there isn't a pass to make other than turn backwards. Rom is regularly lazy IMO, which exacerbates this.
Koeman has a job to do and he might well be comfortable for both Ross and Rom to leave for the highest bucks possible, add the funds to the transfer kitty, and re-form the squad in to an inherently positive group with a winning mentality.
99 Posted 20/05/2017 at 01:21:50
In Don's defense, the dirt bag from The Sun framed what he said in a way that was actually or was interpreted as being racist. He also made highly offensive remarks about Liverpudlians. Saying the lad is "dim" is worlds apart from that.
Personally, I have the impression that he's not very bright although that may be completely false. I have that impression based on various people questioning his decision-making, his football brain etc. I imagine Don is speaking from a similar perspective.
100 Posted 20/05/2017 at 02:02:57
Anyway, looks like we'll see that experiment play out at a new club next season as I can't see both staying. Actually I can't see either staying.
A lot of change coming at this club. To improve, it would need to be an almost unprecedented transfer window. Realistically we'd need 7 or 8 players? 4 or 5 probably the bare minimum. Hard to see how it will happen but it should at least be interesting.
101 Posted 20/05/2017 at 02:03:17
If Wenger stays at Arsenal then thats were Barkley will go. I cant see Man City or Man Utd wanting him unless it's for squad depth. Spurs won't pay the money so it's Newcastle or maybe a West Ham?
Going to be interesting whatever happens.
102 Posted 20/05/2017 at 02:23:14
"The ball is not in his court". Yet Koeman, the club, his teammates and the supporters all await his decision as to whether he is going to sign.
The ball's not only in his court, he's currently bouncing it slowly from side to side under his tufty scrotum like Teen Wolf, while everyone else is stood around wondering what he's going to do with it, whether he's going to make a move and if it's mere coincidence that when he spins it on his middle finger he always seems to be facing Mr Koeman.
A "numbskull stand off" that sees the 'simpleton' with numerous options still on the table (sign the new deal currently on offer; don't sign and see what suitors come forward this summer; sit tight for another season; try and negotiate better terms), while his 'intellectually superior' masters remain in reactionary mode (despite repeated 'words of warning' and attempts to pull a really mean poker face every time the camera points at them).
103 Posted 20/05/2017 at 02:43:17
If Koeman does not rate him, then be honest about it, and tell him he needs to leave and pull the contract offer. If, however, the club ownership wants to keep Ross, for his native son appeal if nothing else, and Koeman is acting to sabotage it, then management needs to slap down the coach and make Ross an offer he cannot refuse. This could mean paying over what his actual value to another club would be, but so be it.
I do not rate Ross very highly. Similarly, I do not rate Koeman. But in this, I think Ross is being as respectful and loyal to the club and the manager as he can be until the season is ended. It is about his livelihood and progression in his own career that he must be concerned.
104 Posted 20/05/2017 at 03:01:01
105 Posted 20/05/2017 at 04:01:10
Possibly nothing in it or reading into it too much; time will tell.
106 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:23:39
I'm not even sure what role he is supposed to play in the team anymore and can't see how he is being "leashed" at Everton and could fulfil his potential at another club if "unleashed"??
He'll go to Newcastle and never play for England again. Sadly.
107 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:29:41
Personally, I think Ross has gone as far as he can with us, and has been only delivering every now and then; maybe he needs a new challenge!
I just hope we get some quality replacements and additions to the squad early on; I also hope we get players who are young enough to grow with the progress, not makeshift has-beens and thirty-somethings, especially in the forward positions.
We seem to be getting linked with everybody, but I have noticed the would be suitors are decent quality. It's just whether they will come and, not only that, will they gel?
Hope we sign off tomorrow with a decent display.
108 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:39:42
109 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:41:46
110 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:50:41
111 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:57:53
I wish him all the best and hope that he fulfills his huge potential, though I do think that if he moves to spurs that he has his work cut out displacing Ali and may end up warming the bench along with Sissoko.
112 Posted 20/05/2017 at 08:59:49
Ross can look lazy, I suspect that he is slow to weigh up options rather, but Sissoko!! I saw what he COULD do at international level; I saw what he did do for NUFC. Now there is one lazy player. No thanks.
113 Posted 20/05/2017 at 09:07:36
114 Posted 20/05/2017 at 09:07:54
If Arsenal are interested, they might consider swapping Ramsey or Wilshere for our lad. We shall see.
If Koeman really wanted Ross to stay, he would have been a little more enthusiastic in his reasons for keeping him. It seems plain that Koeman wants other options and Barkley is not his preferred choice.
Barkley is obviously aware of that and is quietly waiting for a concrete offer for his services. I think Barkley will flourish elsewhere away from the goldfish bowl of his home town.
115 Posted 20/05/2017 at 09:20:37
Of course the club, Koeman & Walsh will have identified targets – all clubs will, and often the same players. There is a vast difference in identifying/wanting a player and getting them.
In the murky and complex world of football and its agents, it must be a nightmare to do business – money and only money talks.
117 Posted 20/05/2017 at 09:35:20
If he stays and does not sign on the dotted line then play him in the U23s next season. There are obviously better players there so he can learn something. Since he obviously has not learned any common sense so far during 23 years.
118 Posted 20/05/2017 at 09:43:49
Many thought the Dutchman had the magic touch when he was appointed but now we know that, just like Moyes, he is a mere functionary!
119 Posted 20/05/2017 at 09:56:58
Today's Gordon Lee!
120 Posted 20/05/2017 at 10:29:57
Where's he going to get his sheepskin coat from? :-)
121 Posted 20/05/2017 at 10:34:29
122 Posted 20/05/2017 at 10:34:56
However, is this the start of another saga! Not sure where the said 'alleged' source/comment came from?
123 Posted 20/05/2017 at 10:37:49
The acid test for his credibility will be our performance next season. If he is backed by the board, and brings in more of his choices, then we can judge him this time next year. He has been severely hampered with the losses of Coleman, Bolasie and to a lesser extent McCarthy.
He doesn't show a great deal of tactical acumen , and seems unable to fire-up his team at times. He also makes the same mistakes of his predecessors in trying to fit square pegs in round holes, but that could be down to limited options.
We could have a very different line-up next term.
124 Posted 20/05/2017 at 10:54:59
125 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:07:40
126 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:09:51
127 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:32:41
"My perception of Barkley is that he's a bit dim. I don't blame him for that but paradoxically I think he believes himself to be one of England's finest (which, if he does, sort of supports me), hence his inferred threat that he'll get a way better contract elsewhere this summer. I suspect that nobody'll pay what the club will demand and that he'll continue in his numbskull stand-off, failing to realise that his not-too-bright-star will then fade faster than his appetite for a battle.
That'll mean his chances of a better contract when his contract expires is unlikely to match even what he's on now, anywhere, because I expect we'll have signed better players for his position and he'll be more acquainted with the reserves as a consequence rather than the England team he seems to believe is his right in what will be a World Cup year.
I really don't think the ball's in his court, but does he realise it? And as for the monetary cost to us, well, that will be a test of togetherness for the owner and manager, but with their personalities I don't believe they'll budge one iota. It'd send out all the wrong messages to the rest of the squad, now and in the future. If Kenwright was top-dog it might well be different."
In short, the Dunning-Kruger effect in spades and ifs and buts based purely on 'I think..'
I believe there is life on other planets and if I'm right, we are sitting ducks for attack from alien lifeforms. Surely it would make sense to invest in some sort of defence system...
(Waves empty pint glass 'When you're ready, Maureen!')
128 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:37:21
I believe that Ross has seen a big world out there, a great opportunity with a club that is going forward and could be Premier League and even Champions League champions next year, a new life in one of the best cities in the world and he wants to be part of it. He must also see massive potential for improvement to his game playing alongside players like Alli, Eriksen and Kane and greatly enhanced chances of a revived England career.
I don't blame him, I hope he does well and believe he will but that our club will be diminished by the loss. He has done nothing wrong in refusing to sign a new contract and I believe that trying to bully him into accepting it was completely the wrong strategy, amateur man management from Koeman.
I don't think it's over yet, btw, in that once he's "gone" other clubs will come in for him. Good luck, Ross, and very sorry to see you go.
129 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:38:43
It's hard to work for a boss you have no respect for, so if the lad goes, so be it. The only thing I would say is that there are not many players who have left Everton and improved, John Stones is the latest 'star' to find that out.
130 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:38:48
Comments on Ross's intelligence are coming from people who have never spoken to the lad or been in his company.
We also don't know what contract terms the club offered him but some expect him to sign what ever the offer is? If he was so dim that is what he would do. I bet Koeman's contract discussions didn't consist of 'sign or fuck off Ron'?
Koeman also insists he is not involved in the recruitment or contract negotiations but it is curious he cant stop talking about this one.
131 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:55:57
The Sun fuckwit drew a very long bow but it was pointed in the thought that Ross is perhaps a bit dim upstairs. The fickwit made it a personal attack that was offensive to many of us.
Likely, Don didn't mean to do this. His comments are usually 'measured'. But I felt (feel) that Don's comment gave the fuckwit from The Sun some authenticity.
132 Posted 20/05/2017 at 11:56:53
He has had enough chances to fulfill whatever potential he was suppose to have. As a local youngster coming through, we all hoped he would make the grade; however, just like so many others, he hasn't lived up to expectation.
133 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:12:36
Successive Everton managers have had no idea how to develop Barkley. He was a ball-winning, good-passing box-to-box player at one time. Martinez tried to turn him into almost a striker and then Koeman criticised him for lack of effort while allowing Lukaku to be the laziest player in the premiership. Barkley has looked confused all season and his decision making has gone to pot because of the incessant 'you must play Lukaku in' instruction.
Liverpool moved heaven and earth to keep their local lad, we on the other hand will let Barkley go without a murmur. This is why we win nothing. It's not down to money it's continuous bad management and I am sick to death with it.
I want to keep our good local players but I am not arsed about Koeman staying. He has already shown he is yet another Average Joe who ain't up to managing our great club.
134 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:15:18
I read your post and thought about Brian Clough and the way he conducted himself publicly, criticising his players.
With the exception of Koeman's serious dead pan expression (not a criticism) I see similarities in them.
Koeman doesn't take prisoners and, for me, that's how it should be.
As a world class player I think he can see Ross's potential, but becomes frustrated when Ross appears to be standing still, progress wise.
136 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:28:15
Richard Dunne, and
137 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:35:13
a) Any player refuses to divulge his plans to him.
b) The board members don't keep him fully updated on the contract negotiations.
Perhaps it is time that the club acknowledged this messy situation and asked the manager to refuse to talk about outgoing/incoming players and appoint a spokesman to divulge the latest contract developments into the public arena.
The manager's role at Goodison has fundamentally altered in the last 12 months, but it seems the way the club handle the media doesn't reflect that change. It could be argued that Koeman's utterings are as much aimed at the board, as any individual player.
Whichever player(s) leave, whichever player(s) arrive, the world will keep turning and we'll still have eleven players on the pitch come the beginning of next season; however, it will be interesting to see what that side looks like at the end of the summer window.
138 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:37:03
By 18, Barkley WAS in a point in his development where he looked like the next big thing. I can recall watching him play for the young England teams and his tackling and decision-making were superb. He would carry the side on occasions. And as you say he was box-to-box, covering long yards with the ball at his feet and then slipping in perfectly weighted passes to players in open positions. No wonder at the time that the likes of Trevor Brooking (then working with the FA) were waxing lyrical about him.
I trace the uncertainties that have beset his game right back to one of the most awful pieces of football man-management I have ever witnessed I'm talking when Moyes hooked him in one of his early first team games, at Blackburn, after less than half an hour. The lad had begun very brightly and confidently, dictating the midfield and powering in a couple of good efforts on goal. He then though lost the ball in midfield and then a minute later brought down a Blackburn player in the box and so conceded a penalty. Within another 5 minutes he was subbed. What a way to handle a young player.
139 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:40:49
The lad has failed to progress under different managers season after season. Perhaps he has peaked!!!
140 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:49:19
It's the board who are at fault here. Their silence leaves a vacuum and lads with egos then fill the void. Sort it out, Moshiri, as this has Dithering Billy written all over it.
141 Posted 20/05/2017 at 12:53:40
Unlike some people here I think he would thrive in a 'top 6' team. The extra movement and space would open up for Ross to really demonstrate his skills. Unfortunately I imagine their relationship has broken down unless Koeman leaves this summer, Ross will be gone.
142 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:02:46
I fear we will see Ross do great stuff elsewhere. With the right coach, I believe he will be special. It is all about personalities, to some extent. Getting a coach who the players will do it for, all the players. In my view that is why Leicester were Champions and why we were Champions in the eighties. It's all falling into place.
143 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:08:01
I'm past being concerned if he stays or not, because he fails to perform on too many occasions for my liking.
I said last season he should be sold, he's had more than enough chances to show he's a supposedly top player. His value has certainly dropped a good deal in the last 12 months.
144 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:08:49
It's obvious I'm not alone in that opinion but right now Barkley's conduct, whatever the reason, is unhelpful to the club, in my opinion. That's what concerns me but I doubt he will care about my views, and I can live with that.
And in response to Eugene Ruane, QC, keep 'em coming pal! The world would be a duller place without you.
145 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:16:21
Barkley would not get in any of the top six sides, and Everton under Koeman want to break into the top six, so your own intelligence says he maybe is not the player we look at with blue-tinted glasses on every week!
146 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:28:32
Read the thread, lad. There more people questioning your intelligence than Ross's.
You don't offer an opinion you make up a load of shite and argue against it. ToffeeWeb's very own Frank Doberman
"I don't have anything against Ross Barkley, but if he came round my fackin' 'ouse throwin' stones at my fackin windas, I'd say, "Eb Barkley! NOOOOO!!!!".
147 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:45:54
148 Posted 20/05/2017 at 13:58:49
Best they cash in quickly.
149 Posted 20/05/2017 at 14:06:02
151 Posted 20/05/2017 at 14:22:12
My words but a whisper your deafness a Shout.
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.
Your sperm's in the gutter your love's in the sink.
So you ride yourselves over the fields and
You make all your animal deals and
Your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.
And the sand-castle virtues are all swept away in
The tidal destruction
The moral melee.
The elastic retreat rings the close of play as the last wave uncovers
The newfangled way.
But your new shoes are worn at the heels and
Your suntan does rapidly peel and
Your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.
And the love that I feel is so far away:
I'm a bad dream that I just had today and you
Shake your head and
Say it's a shame.
Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth.
Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth.
Spin me down the long ages, let them sing the song
How it feels to be thick as a brick.
Songwriters: Ian Anderson.
152 Posted 20/05/2017 at 14:24:39
153 Posted 20/05/2017 at 14:50:11
154 Posted 20/05/2017 at 15:00:10
With Koeman it's a straight forward "sign if you want to stay, don't if you don't. It can't BE any clearer and straight forward.
For fuck's sake, these are professionals paid huge sums of money not some shy eight-year-olds standing on the edge of the pitch trying to pluck up the courage to run on and join in, and looking to teacher to give them the thumbs up.
It's all getting pathetic now, IMO.
155 Posted 20/05/2017 at 15:09:08
We all wanted this local boy to succeed and fulfill his great potential, but we can not wait forever. Ross has divided the fans with his inconsistency and now with his contract impasse, he may lose more support even if he does eventually sign.
156 Posted 20/05/2017 at 15:15:54
I can't see any other reasons for him not signing. I'm actually intrigued to see if one of the clubs above us will sign him? Man Utd haven't been mentioned, but I'm always wary whilst there are rumours flying about Rooney is already a done deal.
Personally, not bothered either way if he stays or goes. We a need a goalscoring No 10 and unfortunately, he isn't that man.
157 Posted 20/05/2017 at 15:54:08
158 Posted 20/05/2017 at 16:00:58
Koeman's frustration may be due to him being out of the loop, rather than making all of the decisions. Walsh is there, Kenwright is there with Moshiri et al. Somebody there knows exactly why this contract has not been signed to date.
None of those in the know wish to share this information with the fans. I wonder why not? If the club said Barkley wanted more money or Barkley wants a new club, then we would all decide whether the club has offered him the going rate and make our own judgements on whether it was a fair offer, or he was being unreasonable.
For all we know, there has been an offer for him, and Koeman wants him to make a decision of joining Newcastle (for example), so Koeman can earmark replacements pronto. Barkley could be torn between his love for the club, and his dislike of the boss.
Koeman is definitely using his press conferences to put pressure on Ross, and make him out to be the bad guy. The little information we have, is all from Mr Koeman.
159 Posted 20/05/2017 at 16:15:50
Well, funnily enough, rewind time by about 12 months and it turns out Ron basically was Ross Barkley:
“My first option was to continue at Southampton, to do my last season of contract, but it was not possible.
They said it's not good because we like to know the future. I said it was not a problem because I signed three times a one-year contract with Feyenoord in Holland.
I then got a proposal from Southampton and in my opinion, it was not what I liked to see.
Then the whole Everton story came out and the interest and also the interest from my part.
Les Reed said to me that it was not possible to go through my last year of contract without knowing what would happen after. That made it more difficult.
At the same time Everton was showing interest.
Southampton gave me permission to talk to Everton and now I am the new Everton manager.”
Given how Koeman personally preferred things to play out at Southampton when about to enter the final year of his contract, and his complete about-face within the space of a season when it comes to one of his players being in the same boat, then I can't help but wonder if he himself will be following his own sage advice and scrambling to sign a new deal before the end of next season in order to 'let the club know where they stand' so they can best prepare for the months ahead?
160 Posted 20/05/2017 at 16:28:26
161 Posted 20/05/2017 at 16:41:14
162 Posted 20/05/2017 at 16:50:48
Hopefully he'll apply this attitude towards Lukaku, and stop talking about Barcelona.
Consistency my dear sir, consistency.
163 Posted 20/05/2017 at 17:05:46
Koeman is the mouthpiece for the club, but we shouldn't assume that he has full control over this situation. Barkley is fairly big business, and the difference between him and Koeman going into the last year of their contracts is probably about £30 million. The club are not going to want to lose that amount on a player.
Koeman going into the final year of his contract, from a compensatory perspective, would have lost Southampton £3.5 million. Big difference and therefore not a fair comparison.
The reasons Southampton didn't want it to happen with Koeman are very different to why Everton don't want it to happen with Ross. It's business for us, whereas it was long-term planning and stability for Southampton.
164 Posted 20/05/2017 at 17:13:11
165 Posted 20/05/2017 at 17:16:50
166 Posted 20/05/2017 at 17:29:10
I absolutely love Ross's talent. What I don't like in any of our players is taking time off especially during the game.
Koeman would get the bullet if we were go backwards badly next season. So he can not afford a dressing room full of fragile princesses.
Then here's a thought for Ross to ponder. Here at your boyhood club. With your family around you and fans willing you on because you are one of us, you seem unable to grasp just how good you have it.
Go anywhere else and you're not amongst your family, the fans will not be endlessly tolerant and other managers do not have an unlimited supply of TLC for the fragile princesses.
Grow up ,man. Toughen up, man. Sign up, man.
167 Posted 20/05/2017 at 17:37:16
So, rightly or wrongly ,we set a very high bar for Ross to match, nothing wrong in that.
Matt Cheetham, journalist, said in all the games Ross and Rom had together he's only assisted 4 times! (Blue room pod this week). He does of course create chances for Rom, 20-odd this season.
Do you not think that should be much highter since so much goes through Ross? Or do we want to add to the clamour that despite given the chances Rom couldn't finish his dinner? 😜
169 Posted 20/05/2017 at 18:12:41
If I may say that Andy Crooks (#146) sums it up for me personally but I would add one very controversial point in that I would rather see Koeman go than Barkley. However, that's just my opinion.
170 Posted 20/05/2017 at 18:32:26
'Surely the doyen of outspoken ToffeeWeb contributors is Hind. But if Hind got my name wrong, in a public forum, I'd tell him; 'OI HIND, NOOOO!'
171 Posted 20/05/2017 at 19:54:47
172 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:18:47
I'm entering the final year of my contract. It's my choice to see that contract out. If I'm unhappy with my employer I have no obligation to re-sign 12 months before it ends simply because the employer sees a significant profit (let's say £50 million) from my talents if I don't.
If that employer chose to invest in my talents over the past few years that was their decision, not mine.
If no-one comes in for me at that price and come next season you put me – a £50 million rated player by your estimation – in the stiffs to make a point while playing a £25 million purchase, then I'd guess that's a case of constructive dismissal.
Maybe Koeman doesn't fancy Barkley. If I was Ross Barkley and thought that, I'd be waiting until the end of next season – by which time, Koeman may well be going/gone.
How long before there are pickets outside the ground supporting the Goodison one?
173 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:28:38
Ross is entitled to do nothing, sign nothing until the end of his contract. All the club/Koeman can do is nudge/browbeat him into signing or leaving.
All the rest is down to goodwill and negotiation on both sides. Or who blinks first.
174 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:34:35
175 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:35:44
Not playing Ross in the first team, while playing someone who cost less than Ross's alleged worth in his position, is no case for constructive dismissal.
As much as Ross has the right to see out the last year of his contract, Koeman has the right not to include him in the first team squad.
176 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:40:27
A few months back I was queueing to pay for my fuel when I spotted Jamie Redknap in the next queue. Normally I'd have just ignored the RS, but a few weeks earlier on Sky Sports, he had claimed he had spent time with Barkley and believed he was on his way.
I tried blanking him, but me nose got the better of me and I turned around and asked him what he was talking about. He said Spurs had made it known to Barkley that they wanted him and he was torn.
His queue was moving quicker than mine and he paid for his stuff and was gone. I didn't get anymore.
I don't normally do footy gossip. I leave that to the Crosby taxi drivers, they're so much better at it. I just went back to my car thinking he was just another RS mischief maker.... and I kinda forgot about it.
I missed your post (#36) for some reason, but I spotted it just now when skimming back down the thread. I suspect you thought it was bollocks when you posted It, just as i did when I first heard it. but this rumour is gaining legs. Two people have said it to me today.
Maybe all this shite we are listening to originates from the same place (Crosby Taxi drivers?) but if this turns out to be true and the fee you heard is accurate. there could indeed be an awful lot of teeth Gnashing.
And if Sissoko comes the other way, this place will go into melt-down.
That's me done with Rumours for the next four months.
177 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:43:42
178 Posted 20/05/2017 at 20:44:33
As for having local lads in the team, it might be nice but it's not important I would rather have a very good Algerian than a good Scouser.
179 Posted 20/05/2017 at 21:10:51
180 Posted 20/05/2017 at 21:53:32
How people can hold Koeman responsible for this current predicament is beyond me. The slime ball agent and Ross himself are manipulating the situation.
If he stays, I will be more than happy; if we sell him, we move on. If he runs his contract down then he should be strung by his balls from the Park End with Elstone and whoever else was responsible for putting the club in this position.
181 Posted 20/05/2017 at 21:58:31
The criticism he receives on here is really from a small minority of Everton fans but he has received open abuse from a similar tiny minority at Goodison and it must have had an effect on his desire to leave a club that should be his natural home.
Never mind though, we've retained the services of the painfully average Kevin Mirallas, the equally average Leighton Baines, Funes Mori and past-his-best Phil Jagielka. We are trying to break into the top 6 with a nucleus of a side that is nowhere near good enough to do so and yet we are willing to lose the one potential gem that we have who could help take us there.
Shame on you Everton and good luck Ross. Is Koeman the man to take us forward in our project? Not in a million years, he is an ape man.
182 Posted 20/05/2017 at 22:24:58
My first reaction was that it was semi-plausible bollocks. But if I was a young promising English player who didn't get on with his boss, I think I'd be tempted by a big money move to London with the chance of proving myself in a title-challenging team that's in the Champions League. I also thought the fee was feasible £50m is nonsense.
Good luck to him if he goes. For me, he's a classic modern-day young English player; talented with a lack of nous, backbone, self-belief, whatever it is that these guys sorely lack. He may find it elsewhere, I have my doubts.
It's all about who we have in August. And I'd say it's an odds-on bet we'll be hearing from you in the next four months.
183 Posted 20/05/2017 at 23:11:04
My personal opinion is that Ross is the only thing preventing his further development and that, on the basis of the last 2 seasons, would not get in any team with top 4 ambitions.
Much to Darren's disappointment, I'm sure I also believe that Koeman has handled the situation firmly and fairly.
184 Posted 20/05/2017 at 23:26:15
Whether that is so or not, Jay, the place to handle it was not out in the public arena with unenforceable threats.
185 Posted 20/05/2017 at 23:58:47
I'm not sure about a swap for Sissoko. Sissoko gets slated a lot on this forum but who's to say he wouldn't have been the player from the Euros had we signed him. A different club, different tactics, a different player. I'd take £20m and Sissoko. That's valuing Sissoko at £15m and Barkley at £35m.
I'd be more happy if we did a part exchange deal with Arsenal for Aaron Ramsey who seems to be a whipping boy for the Arsenal fans.
I hope Barkley stays but it won't be a big deal to me if he goes, the same with Lukaku.
186 Posted 20/05/2017 at 00:03:30
John Daley somewhere on here is absolutely right and our editor, Michael Kenrick, was talking through his arse when he described Koeman's bullshit as "completely professional".
If we want to be successful as a club, we need to be precise and not make twats of ourselves. Of course, Barkley may still go but let's not talk shite in that direction.
187 Posted 20/05/2017 at 00:08:04
I love these TW pearls of 'wisdom' stated with the same surety as 'well the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening.'
Ross Barkley has said (more or less) fuck all but that isn't going to stop the torch wielding mob.
"I think.." "I reckon.." "I believe.." "I heard..."
Sorry (not really) but what an absolute load of wank.
189 Posted 21/05/2017 at 02:46:15
I am alarmed that anyone thinks Koeman is answering (not soliciting) questions from the press regarding Barkley, without the express permission of the Club hierarchy.
He signs or he doesn't. We have games starting 8 weeks from now. Ross is part of that or he isn't. It's up to him.
190 Posted 21/05/2017 at 03:14:13
I'm not saying he doesn't have any say whatsoever, however, to believe he alone decides on player sales/ acquisitions is very naive.
You only have to look at the difference in the public stance the club give out between Barkley and Lukaku to see it for what it really is.
He's obviously saying what he's being told to say by the hierarchy/PR of the club. That's my take anyways. Then again maybe Koeman is an easy target?
191 Posted 21/05/2017 at 05:48:44
One camp does not have a problem with how it's being handled. The club is doing the right thing, and Koeman is doing the right thing by the club. Barkley has been offered a contract and invited to sign it. So far, he's chosen not to... but no-one knows why, and there will clearly be consequences if he doesn't.
Then there are those he see Koeman's actions as all bad, citing some unwritten rules about how he and the club should be behaving, claiming all sorts of bad vibes, poor form, and now, of all things, illegality to support their completely made-up case and saying all manner of total nonsense about what this means to the club, the fans, the players who will now not sign with us – you name it.
Nothing I say will convince you to view it differently because you have convinced yourselves of the fabrications underpinning your conspiracy theory. Whereas nothing you say will change my mind because I have the far simpler task: I just have to simply watch how it plays out – untroubled by the made-up mountain of Daley / Hind / Hill hogwash you guys are spouting.
192 Posted 21/05/2017 at 06:08:15
Probably the most publicly "warm and encouraging" example is Klopp. On the pitch, bear-hugging his boys as soon as the whistle blows. But think back to early season with sicknote Sturridge. Not ALL sweetness and light.
Koeman's approach with Barkley is, for me, precisely what Ross needs to learn from and emulate. Koeman is one of the BIGGEST names, thoroughly deserved reputation built upon performance after performance after performance.
If Ross wises up and emulates Koeman's steely determination allied with craft then we truly will have a Goodison Legend to worship.
At present Ross fails to convince me that he wants it all so much that he's prepared to adopt the mindset from the Master. So, instead, he'll toddle off somewhere else for an easier ride. For a few weeks or months the manager will purr and praise, the fans will cheer and applaud and everything will be lovely.
Then they face their "toughest test so far", the type in which craft alone will not shine without a good measure of steely determination. Honeymoon over.
My best advice, Ross, is sign for Ronald, he has the very pieces that your talents need and deserve most. Awkward as he may seem, he is and has exactly that which you need.
193 Posted 21/05/2017 at 07:22:36
Few comments along the lines of "What type of example does it set to potential signings?"
If potential signings are worried by this, I wouldn't want them in my team.
In a nutshell: Manager looking to strengthen his team for next season, and working out what players he needs to sign, gives player deadline to say if he is signing contract.
194 Posted 21/05/2017 at 07:52:39
Why would I be disappointed that you choose to think Koeman has dealt firmly with this? I would be surprised if you didn't.
Koeman could be blowing bubbles with his kecks around his ankles during these interviews and you will still get a few who think he is handling then whole thing with firmness and dignity.
If Barkley does have another offer which he intends to accept, we will all know that Koeman has spent the past two months very publically barking at the moon.
Barkley may not have an offer from elsewhere, he may have just decided he doesn't want another season playing for Corporal Clot. Then we will know that, by putting him up for sale rather than making him hand in a request, "Honest Ron" will be paving the way for him to receive a nice signing on fee.
There is a very real possibility that the "numbskull" has given the wily old fox just enough rope to ensure it is his size nine clogs which are left swinging in the wind when this is over.
Of course Barkley may decide to stay at Goodison and sign on the dotted, what will Corporal Clot do then? Say "Oh no, the deadline has passed"??? Will he fuck. He has gone to considerable lengths to paint Barkley as the villain of the piece; he won't want the tables turned now.
It was obvious weeks ago that Koeman had painted himself into a corner. The best and wisest thing he can do now is shut the fuck up and wait for the paint to dry.
195 Posted 21/05/2017 at 08:14:48
196 Posted 21/05/2017 at 08:25:51
The fact that Ross may stay put and see out his remaining year is up to Ross and any potential buyer but the decision to try and sell him is the clubs.
I consider it very unlikely Ross will wait out his contract.
197 Posted 21/05/2017 at 09:07:33
198 Posted 21/05/2017 at 10:21:50
None of us know which of the above are the stumbling block but there will be influencing factors in all of them. If your boss has told you you are being replaced because you are not good enough, who in their right mind would stay? If you see lack of resultant game time as damaging your ambition to play for club and country, it most certainly would inspire you to leave.
If you feel singled out for abuse or negativity in public you would feel picked on and your confidence in yourself and the person giving it, in this case, your manager.
Whether Ross Barkley will ever become a superstar, only time will tell, but it's clear that at this point in time its unlikely it will ever happen at Everton under Ronald Koeman.
The manager is here to do a job, he has a contract and no love particularly for the club, he is ambitious and is not averse to showing loyalty only to himself when moving on. He has committed seeing out his contract and then what? What happens when he has only a year left to run, when he will not sign and his words will be used against in in a very same argument.
If he advances the cause of Everton many will say all well and good and that's business. But it's all rather sad to see.
199 Posted 21/05/2017 at 11:01:19
The club has invested massively in Ross over the years and if he is not committed to the long term project he should say so. Enabling us to gain some compensation that will allow us to go out and buy a replacement.
The club has managed this whole situation poorly. But right now my grievance is with Ross and his agent. If he was not a local lad, he would be getting slated on here cf Lukaku and Stones.
I do want Ross to stay as I see a real player at times but he needs to make a commitment; if not... sell. If we let his contract run down, then the club and the manager really are guilty of negligence.
200 Posted 21/05/2017 at 11:32:41
".. the made-up mountain of Daley / Hind / Hill hogwash"
Not entirely sure why I'm being dragged into this, beyond having an opinion of Koeman's handling of Barkley's contract situation contrary to your own but, seen as though I am, I may as well respond:
Firstly, are we back on Bizzarro world right now?
Claiming one man, by virtue of his own public proclamations on the subject, has come across like a hypocritical, contradictory, bull-in-a-China-shop bell, banging out deadlines and ultimatums a player is under no obligation to adhere to and cannot possibly be enforced under contract law.
Not a conspiracy theory:
Suggesting (without the slightest shred of evidence) that the player "probably started it" because he didn't like being publicly criticised by the manager and consequently came to a decision not to sign a new contract, under any circumstances, months before the club had even saw fit to offer one. Then, someone he knew or someone in his employ, probably alerted a reporter from the Daily Star to the situation, so said reporter could scribble a speculative piece about Barkley stalling on an as yet non-existent contract proposal and probably going somewhere like Spurs, thereby bringing the true situation to the previously oblivious operators at Everton, who responded by belatedly offering Ross a deal even if they probably never really expected him to sign, and all parties subsequently entering a period of prolonged 'negotiation' with no potential to achieve anything other than providing a distracting show of smoke and mirrors for the press, and supporters, to dine out on as we head into the summer.
Beyond seemingly struggling with the very concept of what constitutes a "conspiracy", it's also clear you don't prescribe to the view put forward by political scientists that all conspiracy theories evolve to incorporate any evidence that may subsequently arise against them, thereby turning such a theory into a 'closed shop' based solely on faith and pushing to one side pesky impediments like 'proof' or 'facts':
"Barkley has been stalling on a new contract for months and months"
"No he hasn't. Koeman said in March that a contract hadn't even been offered at that point, but talks were planned".
"Err, alright...but Barkley had already made up his mind not to sign before that because there was a story in the Daily Star from some guy back in February suggesting that could, maybe, potentially be the case."
"Could that story not simply have been based entirely on the fact that Koeman claimed Ross would be offered a deal in "the New Year" and three months later there was still fuck all progress on that front?"
"What do you mean 'claimed'? Ross was offered a contract in "the New Year", just as Koeman said he would be. Mid March is still "the New Year", if you stretch the widely accepted understanding of the term waaaay further than even Mr Fantastic's weirdly elastic testicles can elongate".
"Think I might be wasting my time here".
"Well you've clearly got plenty to spare. What with all those wild 'conspiracy theories' you've been coming up with and that".
"Then there are those claiming all sorts of bad vibes, poor form, and now, of all things, illegality to support their completely made-up case"
"Completely made up" he says, after taking Tony Hill's assertion (@ 186) that Koeman's 'sign or we will sell' stance is "entirely unenforceable in law" and transforming it into a claim of "illegality".
There's a clear and significant difference between something that is 'not enforceable by law' and something that is 'illegal' or 'against the law'.
Imagine (if you will) Dr Evil saw Scooby Doo dressed as a woman and said "Wow, Scoobs! You're stunning. I want you. I weeeeeeeeeeell make you my wife. You have until next Wednesday to decide, otherwise I will damn well force you, against your wishes, to perform the role of Female Warden Number 4 in the about to go into production remake of Prisoner Cell Block H", before placing his little finger threateningly against his lips, pulling a salt & vinegar 'Hula Hoop' out of his pocket with his other hand, and motioning for Scoobs to slide it onto his hairy paw.
Now, proposing to a dog in drag, putting a deadline on said proposal and speculatively ringing around several agents/producers to put the word out that you have discovered a stellar 'female' acting talent, with just the right amount of stubble, who would happily lick their own arse to land a part in your new project, isn't actually "illegal".
However, just let Dr Evil try forcing through any of that freaky shit and he'll soon discover he doesn't have a fucking leg to stand on under the law and will firmly remain without any legal recourse whatsoever when it comes to trying to turn his big words/promises/threats into an actual betrothal/prison drama bit-part.
Kind of like Koeman thinking he is able to force through the sale of Barkley, despite the boy being in the possession of a legally binding contract, the terms and duration of which point conclusively to the contrary.
Finally, you say: "I have the far simpler task: I just have to simply watch how it plays out".
Nah. That's the same situation everybody is in, not some exclusive spot reserved for yours truly. Besides, not like you're actively making a concerted effort to sit on the sidelines of the debate, all tight-lipped and biding your time to see what Barkley decides before offering your opinion, is it?
Also, not like when we know, conclusively, how this whole contract saga concludes, those supporting Koeman's stance will be able to claim any sort of certain victory on his behalf.
If Barkley signs next week, it can't be said he has done so because of Koeman turning the screw. The ultimate decision to do so has always resided with Ross and he may have intended to sign at the end of the season all along.
If he is put on the transfer list and subsequently signs for another club this summer, it will ultimately be on his say-so. He's only going to sign for another club if such a move suits and, again, it may be the very resolution he was hoping for anyway.
If he signals to the club he is willing to sign a new contract sometime after the date Koeman circled in his calendar, the club are highly unlikely to turn around and say "Nah, hard lines Ross. Far too late for that now" because, (a) their stated position is preferably to keep him, and (b) ultimately they'll still have the powerful thought of protecting themselves against him potentially sodding off for free next summer. They're not going to run that risk simply to ensure Ron doesn't look he backed down any.
If he doesn't sign a new deal, doesn't agree to a move and simply decides to sit tight and see out the remaining year of his contract, Koeman can sideline him out of spite, but it would constitute nothing more than further, pointless, pissing in the wind on his part.
201 Posted 21/05/2017 at 12:21:37
What became clear was that books like von Daniken's usually failed to distinguish between facts and opinions, and assumptions were often quickly disguised as facts. Most of it appeared deliberate, to sell sensational stories, but a lot was also just sloppy thinking.
What's all this got to do with Ross Barkley? Well, the situation seems similar to me. Some folks are jumping to all kinds of conclusions based on assumptions and opinions rather than facts, of which there a few. Some posts make assertions that look like facts, but in fact aren't. And the trouble is, all this leads to conclusions about the loyalty and motivation of Barkley, when in fact we nothing about these.
All I 'know' is that it's not normal professional practice for a club to be talking in the way Koeman has about an employee's contract, particularly when some of the things said appear inconsistent with what we know about the details of the existing contract.
It's best to stick to what we know, and when we don't know something, admit as much. The phrase "I don't know" is more powerful than many folks imagine, but is used too infrequently.
202 Posted 21/05/2017 at 12:22:33
203 Posted 21/05/2017 at 12:30:19
204 Posted 21/05/2017 at 12:56:22
It's just two opinions isn't it? Invisible with plenty of shades of gray between the two extremes you've offered.
My view, I don't like internal business being done in public and for the life of me I can't see the benefit to the club of doing it this way, regardless of whether he signs or not.
205 Posted 21/05/2017 at 13:02:45
206 Posted 21/05/2017 at 13:19:43
207 Posted 21/05/2017 at 13:20:42
What details do we know about the existing contract, other than the fact it has a year (approximately) left to run?
208 Posted 21/05/2017 at 13:27:00
I am sure he has been offered a big incentive to stay but he may be feeling a move to a Champions league contender would suit him better, much like we heard from Rom a while back.
Everton are rebuilding and young players get impatient. It could be also that he isn't on the same page as Koeman as I question Koeman going public with an ultimatum.
Whatever it is, we may find out soon.
209 Posted 21/05/2017 at 13:27:39
Or soccer (fucking) a.m
"Hey guys, come on it's just bantz yeah, chill, we're all blues..." etc wank waffle.
There's a difference between opinion and informed opinion.
Once you understand this (and understand this isn't facefuckingbook) the more seriously your contributions will be taken... in my (informed by your previous posts) opinion.
210 Posted 21/05/2017 at 13:40:13
So... If Barkley is of the mind, off his own bat or via 'hints' that he is going to be 'replaced' and will be spending a lot more time on the bench, there won't be any difference where that bench is.
He might feel that he can be more on the bench than on the field on his present deal (£40k) + whatever rise he can wangle out of them. Or he can not sign and hope to get a move along with a new start / clean sheet / and a Boss who wants him Plus a better deal.
Not the most difficult decision... or is it?
I thought I knew it all at his age; we all do... and cringe at some of the stupid things I did and said, the corners I painted myself into, the number of times I cut my nose off to spite my face. The times I didn't/wouldn't listen, the times I did to the wrong person... it goes with being young.
Short version: who knows.
211 Posted 21/05/2017 at 14:08:30
It reflects your apparent psychology, enjoyable as I find it, to a T. Or are you a Manic Street Preacher aficionado perchance?
212 Posted 21/05/2017 at 16:54:25
Koeman saying that Barkley will be sold unless he signs does not reflect that contractual situation, Koeman making it look like an ultimatum to Barkley, which it cannot possibly be.
Such a public utterance by Koeman is contrary to what might reasonably be expected of a professional, and as such I regard it as unprofessional behaviour by Koeman.
213 Posted 21/05/2017 at 17:09:57
Contractual situation or not, it doesn't happen very often that high value players see out their contract and go for nothing.
The bit I don't like from Koeman is that I can't understand what benefit there is to the club to make it clear that we have to sell. No seller does that do they?
214 Posted 21/05/2017 at 17:53:52
215 Posted 21/05/2017 at 17:58:31
If any statement were made publicly, I believe it should have reflected Barkley's choice in the matter rather than being presented in a way that can be seen as an ultimatum to Barkley. That would, in my opinion, have been a more professional thing to do, with the proviso that the public statement was with the agreement of both parties, this being a contractual matter between two parties.
217 Posted 21/05/2017 at 21:09:30
If you believe reports he's been given a deadline to sign, he's not taken it. I've not seen Koeman's post match comments but, if believed, it sounds like Ron's had enough and Ross is out. A real shame and I couldn't see it happening but I think Ron is more than capable of doing it.
For those who say that Ross is holding all the cards, he won't want to be put into the wilderness for the season, with a point to prove and a World Cup coming up. He will walk.
How much for Newcastle for £30m? Maybe Benitez can unlock all that potential…
218 Posted 21/05/2017 at 21:25:23
My question wasn't referring to whether Koeman has acted professionally or not; it was with reference to you posting "particularly when some of the things said appear inconsistent with what we know about the details of the existing contract."
I was wondering what we know, beyond that it has a year to run, because I readily admit I know nothing more than that.
219 Posted 21/05/2017 at 21:38:11
220 Posted 21/05/2017 at 21:52:08
In my opinion, he meant that if Ross doesn't sign, he'll be "for sale" or "transfer listed" to put it another way.
He'll be more than well aware Ross can't be sold against his will but probably wouldn't for a minute think Ross might sit out the last year of his contract outside the first-team squad when there's a World Cup in 2018.
The club wouldn't want to lose a player valued at anywhere between £20m and £35m for nothing at the end of next season, so they would attempt to "force" Ross out by marginalising him, or threatening to anyway to get him to leave for another club (should one make an offer our club accepts) because, if he's going to go, it has to be during this summer's window (IMO) before any more Premier League football gets played, so before Ross could actually be marginalised, if you know what I mean.
221 Posted 21/05/2017 at 22:16:16
There are many ways of doing business. As far as I'm concerned, the way Barkley's contract has been so publically handled, like a bludgeon, should not be one of them.
222 Posted 21/05/2017 at 22:23:54
223 Posted 21/05/2017 at 22:43:04
Ross has remained very professional. He hasn't once said he wants to leave or made any public statement. Koeman has been dealing with him through the media. Do we actually know what he has been offered? Maybe he feels he is worth more?
I'm not his biggest fan. Yes, he does go missing but, on his day, and unfortunately they are few, he is world class. We are in Europe next season. A player like Ross is needed in the squad.
The day will come when, like the Saints fans, we will turn on Koeman. He is far too full of his own importance. He is a manager and surely the way to manage is behind closed doors not in public like he seems to like to do. Remember Niasse. This is the same man who said Rom won't fulfill his potential staying at Everton.
224 Posted 21/05/2017 at 22:44:41
I agree, it most certainly IS an ultimatum, one that Ross would have been well aware of before it was actually stated. He wouldn't think for a minute the club would allow his contract to run down with the loss of any possible fee.
I agree, it should have been stated in private though, if it needed stating at all? If the outcome of Ross not signing is clear to numpties like me, it must be/have been clear to Ross too.
226 Posted 21/05/2017 at 00:19:06
Cue Koeman and Walsh, as his first step. Does Koeman choose to continue the public schmooze-fest as Moyes and Martinez did about a bunch of grown men who've fuck all else to do in their job but get as fit as possible and put in however many hours are required to improve their skills so that they can begin to perform confidently in every match regardless of the opponent, like a professional should? Or does he look the fuckers in the eye and tell them to man up, get real, or fuck off (I paraphrase his post-match comments)? And don't give me the old line "We don't say that in public" because whatever's been privately said behind closed doors for years has had no effect at all on improving the heart in the players he inherited.
He's on a three-year contract, Champions League qualification being the stated requirement by the owner. That means there's no time for the lovey-dovey sentiment they've got used to and no place, I hope, for players unable or unwilling to control or compete for the ball, tackle, accurately shoot and pass, and also occupy areas of the pitch that cause the maximum difficulty for the opposing team all the time.
Yes, the jury's still out on the new regime, and on Koeman in particular, but I suspect he's given up with more than a few of the squad ever, ever having qualities necessary for Champions League participation because fundamentally they really do lack the heart.
Now it's up to the owner to make his support for Koeman and the ambition he announced on takeover apparent with some money.
227 Posted 22/05/2017 at 00:28:11
In any negotiation, you have to make it clear you are prepared to walk away. This, I'm sure, will have been done in private but making it public drives it home.
Keeping it behind closed doors is undoubtedly polite and decent but Koeman – as a professional – is paid by the club to manage as he sees fit, and if that means making public statements so be it.
No-one would tell any of the great managers what they should or shouldn't say to who, when or where regarding their players and Koeman should be no different.
Besides – all he's said when asked was Ross didn't do the business, he's going to talk to the board and there's going to be a statement.
Ross needs to sign up while he's got the chance or check out the latest Samsonite range.
228 Posted 22/05/2017 at 06:09:59
His reply was that he was on a train journey when an old bloke sat next to him asked him why he kept repeating himself in the press. Clough replied it was to make sure he got his point over.
The old man said it just made him look stupid and a bully, say it once it'll be more believable.
229 Posted 22/05/2017 at 06:33:45
And I quite like Brian's (#220) "lost in translation". You and Hind have expected far too much in terms of specifics with respect to Koeman's difficulties in expressing himself in a second language. Yes, give the guy a break.
Mike Green (#227) seems to provide pretty clear picture if you are still struggling.
Perhaps it will all be resolved today.
But, then again...
230 Posted 22/05/2017 at 07:28:21
231 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:02:48
Interviewer: "I asked if you want him to stay at the club because you're frustrated because of his lack of productivity, for example, today"
Koeman: "But okay, that's what we need to change, we try to find players who will bring more productivity to the team."
Cryptic and evasive. I think Koeman is not so awkward with the language as many believe.
232 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:15:08
If he buys the right players, he can code-switch as much as he wants.
233 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:25:49
I'd actually go even further. I'll borrow and adapt the term 'gutter press', and say that I regard his public handling of some matters as 'gutter management'.
234 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:30:09
235 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:42:12
As a "player of the transfer business" Barkley's agent must surely be fully aware of why for that is precisely what Ross pays him.
So both sides are at the brink. The club have been open and clear that the unsigned contract is the deal/no deal. The club will not countenance Barkley strolling away for free in 12 months time. Good.
Sign up, Ross, or "Goodbye Ross".
Do I think this kind of ultimatum is a Koeman factor? I believe it is part of the club mindset. Moshiri, Walsh & Koeman ALL in accord and from the very outset.
236 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:54:30
The club is making a stance on this situation. No longer will we be messed around by players and agents. It's the new Everton way, which most top clubs have been doing for a long time now.
Sign or leave.
237 Posted 22/05/2017 at 08:58:43
At this club we have have no other No 10, so he has no competition and we have no back up. (Not Ross's fault.) So, no matter what the club decide today, we need a new No 10... possibly 2 if Ross is told he is surplus to requirements.
238 Posted 22/05/2017 at 09:03:06
239 Posted 22/05/2017 at 09:07:00
240 Posted 22/05/2017 at 09:12:24
241 Posted 22/05/2017 at 09:27:12
Koeman's Dutch accent isn't as good as "Schteve McLaren's".
242 Posted 22/05/2017 at 10:05:19
Yes, there is a standard of etiquette but Koeman hasn't sworn, let out any trade secrets or brought the club into disrepute. All he's done is say it how he's seen it and I'm more than happy that he doesn't feel cowed by the cameras into not doing that when asked a direct question. He's clearly pissed off and has probably had enough of players who talk the talk but don't walk the walk when they cross that white line.
People give Ron a hard time for talking about / picking on Ross in public but he only does it because he's constantly being quizzed on why he might have dropped him / is he in his plans / does he deserve an international call up / is he going to sign on etc. and is probably fed up of all the fuss around a player who he thinks, frankly, is probably better than average and has advised the club to offer him a contract in line with that.
On the other hand, Ross's agent is attributed today with saying "Barkley isn't receiving the respect that he deserves. He could play for any of the top clubs in Europe." which if true they can both frankly jog on as far as I'm concerned.
I believe Koeman is going to be ruthless with this. It may be different in Holland but he played and managed Ajaz, PSV and Feyenoord and went wherever his career took him regardless of club loyalty / rivalry. I wouldn't expect Ron to make any special dispensations for Ross he's not signed, he's not as good as people keep banging on that he is, so wish him and his agent the best of luck in the next phase of their careers and move on.
243 Posted 22/05/2017 at 10:15:25
I am really struggling with all this I see the clubs poor handling of this by leaving it so late but the silence from Ross's camp is deafening. For a boyhood blue, surely signing is a no-brainer... but then again he has an agent who doesn't give a fuck about Everton. Just how much he is going to make out of Ross's new deal???
245 Posted 22/05/2017 at 11:14:44
Welcome to Everton, Mr Usmanov!
246 Posted 22/05/2017 at 11:19:53
247 Posted 22/05/2017 at 11:23:41
Me to you, in post #200 (after banging on about this whole public circus being due to the words of one man):
"Beyond seemingly struggling with the very concept of what constitutes a "conspiracy", it's also clear you don't prescribe to the view put forward by political scientists that all conspiracy theories evolve to incorporate any evidence that may subsequently arise against them, thereby turning such a theory into a 'closed shop' based solely on faith and pushing to one side pesky impediments like 'proof' or 'facts' "
Your response after (speed?) reading (skipping?) post #200:
"That's good, John (#200) it shows you've got a much better grasp now of the "conspiracy theory" elements. All that's needed now is a recognition of the manager's professionalism through this unfortunate episode."
Seriously, that is brilliant. If I thought the satire was wholly intentional I would actually be stood applauding.
Still, as a simple insurance against being "lost in translation" (seen as though it's supposedly so easy, even when expressing the exact same sentiment, repeatedly, but phrasing it in a variety of ways) you probably could have gone one better and just posted this:
('Join us for next week's episode of 'Kenrick's Common Place Conspiracy Theories', where one guy in a rammed elevator let's rip, but outragously refuses to admit it.
Why did the elevator bizarrely go up before it went back down? Why did the tedious background music noticeably increase in pitch, tone and volume, the precise moment the man vigorously played his vicious arse trombone? Who was the suspicious old biddie with the big shopping trolley on the 16th Floor and why did she say she would "wait for the next one" before muttering something about a "packed lunch and "sardines"?
Tune in! All will be revealed and tattily stitched together with the flimsiest of threads. It's a tale so twisty you'll feel like the Ourobouros when you come out the other side').
Maybe, if Koeman does indeed have "difficulties in expressing himself in a second language" (as suggested above), it might be a smart move going forward to stop using the media as a fucking messaging service when issuing what could quite easily be construed as a frank, posturing, yet finally piss-weak, ultimatum to one of his men.
Purely for the sake of 'professionalism' and that.
248 Posted 22/05/2017 at 12:10:35
I've supported Koeman from the off, and still believe he needs time, but his utterances about players in public is a concern. Despite all the opinion about him being straight and honest, I think he's a bullshitter of the first order. He has the hallmarks of a classic defensive manager who criticises others but never himself. And his posturing about Barkley is quite embarrassing.
249 Posted 22/05/2017 at 12:25:01
He responds during the interviewer's question as here:
Interviewer: "I asked if you want him to stay at the club?
Because you're frustrated because of his lack of productivity, for example, today."
Then at the end he addresses the lack of productivity?
250 Posted 22/05/2017 at 12:33:00
I am a lot more interested and concerned about who we are going to get whether Ross stays or goes.
251 Posted 22/05/2017 at 12:39:35
Maybe he's right but somehow I think there's more inside the lad that a decent manager would cause to flourish. I feel the same about his treatment of Deulofeu who he couldn't wait to feck off.
252 Posted 22/05/2017 at 12:50:05
253 Posted 22/05/2017 at 13:14:01
Now, they could all be poor managers missing something, but I can't help detecting a pattern here.
Maybe Ross is a talented player who lacks the ingredients players need to make a lasting impression at this level?
I keep waiting for him to prove me wrong, but my patience is finite.
254 Posted 22/05/2017 at 13:17:29
255 Posted 22/05/2017 at 13:28:26
Sign a new multi-million pound contract or feck-off seems to be the only two present choices here. I don't get all this gnashing of teeth. There is nobody else in this position at the club. It's a unique scenario. Glad to see the club showing their teeth to be quite honest.
256 Posted 22/05/2017 at 13:33:53
It's no secret that Barkley has 1 more year to run so of course he's going to be asked about it at every opportunity. Therefore, if he won't sign, then Koeman needs at least two attacking players and needs to get them in quickly for pre-season, so he needs to be put up for sale now to help finance those purchases.
Poor Ross this and that; the fact is that he hasn't consistently produced since getting into the first team and there's a void of difference between him and the Number 10s at the other top clubs.
Being nice and lauding him with plaudits didn't work either, so I've no issue with Koeman's stance.
257 Posted 22/05/2017 at 13:40:38
Maybe Koeman hasn't done enough? But he's done better than any other manager who has managed Barkley at senior level.
258 Posted 22/05/2017 at 13:49:32
Firstly, for what most here hope he can be (consistently),; secondly, for what he represents to the local community; and thirdly, I want the days of not being able to hold onto our best players to be a thing of the past, whilst I can accept Lukaku, I find it impossible to accept with Barkley. you might not think he's one of our best players, but few have played as many games as him over the last 3 or four seasons.
For all those who think Sigurdsson will just come in and be everything Barkley is not, then ask Swansea fans about his consistency. He often does nothing all game, goes missing, never tracks back, then just scores a free-kick or something. This is easier for them to swallow as he's single-handedly won them a load of points, but for us, he needs to be on it, week-in & week-out; otherwise, he's just another Barkley.
259 Posted 22/05/2017 at 14:00:09
"Lost in translation" wasn't meant to be taken quite so "literally" and I thought the next few lines of my post explained that. The point being made was that although Koeman said "or he'll be sold", he obviously didn't mean "he'll be sold whether he likes it or not" – he meant "he'll be up for sale". Subtle difference in wording which many have jumped on with the "he can't be sold unless he wants to go" etc etc etc.
When you weigh up the situation and the likely outcome, should Ross not sign, then "he'll be sold" is probably a correct assessment of what will happen.
People getting up in arms because Koeman didn't say "or he'll be transfer listed" or something more factually correct, I find a little pedantic to be honest, and that's what some ARE upset with – not JUST the fact that he said anything at all.
We know what he meant, at least I thought we did, just as I thought the point I was making in my "lost in translation" post was a simple to understand one. Evidently not!
260 Posted 22/05/2017 at 14:33:17
Everton boss Ronald Koeman trying to 'push' Ross Barkley out of club, claims ex-skipper
Neville says Koeman is "obsessed" with 23-year-old
Former Everton captain Phil Neville suspects Ronald Koeman is “trying to push” Ross Barkley out of the club.
The 23-year-old is entering the final 12 months of his deal at Goodison and the Blues have offered him a new contract.
Koeman had issued Barkley with a deadline of the end of the season to give Everton an answer but confirmed yesterday, following the defeat to Arsenal, that they had no received the player's decision.
The Blues boss was due to talk with the board today.
Neville says Koeman is “obsessed” with Barkley and thinks he could be attempting to force him out of the club.
“I keep listening to Ronald Koeman , and there is an obsession with talking about Ross Barkley every time he does a press conference,” Neville is reported to have told talkSPORT.
“It looks to me as if he wants him to leave, you don't just keep saying ‘he has a week to decide', ‘tomorrow I'll issue a statement'. It seems to me as if he is probably trying to push Ross out of the door. That is what it looks like from the outside.”
261 Posted 22/05/2017 at 14:35:58
Regardless of the semantics, I personally don't think he should have said anything. Koeman's experienced enough with the media to know that you don't actually have to answer the questions.
262 Posted 22/05/2017 at 15:33:54
263 Posted 22/05/2017 at 15:35:47
Barkley, for such a crucial position within the team, just doesn't do enough.
Plus he's had this contract in front of him now for months and he hasn't signed. As a manager Koeman must be thinking why the delay? If he doesn't want to sign then he can go.
Koeman and Walsh need to plan ahead for the summer and need to know what Ross is doing. This dilly dallying by Ross serves no purpose.
Sign the contract or get out. It's simple. It's Ross Barkley who is the problem here not Koeman.
264 Posted 22/05/2017 at 15:40:41
265 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:06:06
For years fans have been asking for more transparency and better communication from the club. When the manager is then asked about one of key first team players, instead of dodging the question and leaving his silence open to interpretation (creating lots of media attention and speculation), he chooses to go on record and state the club's position. This keeps the fans informed – which is what many have asked for.
We have no idea why Barkley hasn't signed the contract because he has offered no reason, so we're left filling in the blanks.
266 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:20:19
267 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:26:15
Yeh, you make a good point.
Do you think he'll sign?
268 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:32:12
The only one who could possibly be forcing Barkley out is... Barkley. He's been offered a contract, he won't sign it. If he doesn't sign it, then he is free to sign anywhere. And obviously since he will have refused to sign here, that would be somewhere else.
The club has to take his position of refusing to sign a contract with only a year left as a desire to leave. So, in order to not lose him for nothing, they have to attempt to sell him.
How in the hell is that Koeman's fault? I have my issues with his management, but in this case I'm not sure what Mr Neville would say is the right solution? And maybe someone should remind him of Ferguson's treatment of Beckham when he had made it known he was going to leave. Was he outraged by that as well?
If Barkley wants to stay, he can sign the contract. If he doesn't, then the club has to do what is in the best interest of the club and sell him before he walks for nothing. Koeman has simply stated this exact common sense scenario every time he has been asked about Barkley's contract situation.
269 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:33:29
Fans now increasingly want stories in same way celebrity followers love Hello mag crap. Now what about Ross's silence? Creating more of the above than a long interview. Clever agent.
270 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:43:42
Also, I do not think that he is an instinctive footballer he always seems to need to stop and think what to do with the ball with the result that he gets caught in possession far too many times. He, and several other players in the squad are constantly being negative slowing the game down.
Ah well. another one for Sunderland via Man City I suppose. Just make sure you screw his next club for £30m at least
271 Posted 22/05/2017 at 16:57:55
272 Posted 22/05/2017 at 17:14:59
Have you ever thought that it may be because he makes himself available to take a pass that few others do? Hence the reason we always seem to pass sideways and backwards.
Watch yesterday's game and look at the lack of movement all over the pitch something that has been prevalent most of the season... and especially away from home, with at least one midfielder camped in the back four and another rarely crossing the halfway line.
273 Posted 22/05/2017 at 17:34:18
Playing 5-a-side with him showed me why. He had all the tools in his toolbox, unlike myself. Because I had limits to my game, it was perhaps easier for me to do the things that I knew I was good at.
I could tackle, and I could pass and I could read the game and had a decent shot. He, on the other hand had supreme skill, could dribble, was fast, with a good shot.
The problem was, like Barkley, he would try to do too much. He would only pass to you when he was almost out of options. Then , when you got the pass, just a fraction too late, your angle was more acute for the shot, and you more likely would not score due to this.
Then , from his perspective, he had given you the chance and you had muffed it, so next time, he would be even more keen to go it alone. It was a chicken and egg situation.
Barkley has it all. Big, strong, a decent engine, two-footed with terrific skill and a great shot.
His failing was spotted by Lee Dixon yesterday, when he said that Barkley is like a lad who just wants to be on the ball all the time. Then he takes a touch too many, waits a split second too long... and the opportunity is gone.
You can try and change these players, and I am sure Koeman and Co must have tried.
However, part of being a really good player is having the innate ability to see something early and read the situation, giving the right pass at the right time. Barkley does it sometimes, but sometimes is not going to win you anything.
It is a shame, but I think he is limited by this flaw and he will never be top class.
274 Posted 22/05/2017 at 17:55:18
275 Posted 22/05/2017 at 17:59:35
Could that mean the board isn't backing Koeman? If so, I think he might resign over this issue... the plot thickens.
276 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:10:31
277 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:11:00
Haven't read the latest but, to be fair to all parties, what's another day or so. If all sides are happy with the final decision, i.e. whether he stays or goes, then that's best all round. I don't think any of us on TW know the real reasons concerning the apparent impasse.
278 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:13:34
279 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:16:43
A few more steps and we can predict World War II (what do you mean there's already been one?).
281 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:21:27
According to Capt Phil in a earlier article in the Echo today, Koeman is obsessed with shoving Barkley out of the club.
Koeman is not a guy who will be messed about, I think he could walk.
282 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:29:23
283 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:32:57
Ffs things are becoming ridiculfuckingous!
Yes that IS an actual word, honest!
284 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:37:29
285 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:37:55
286 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:44:35
287 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:47:30
288 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:49:56
My heads bursting with it all to be honest. I wish I had the common sense to forget footie 'til mid July!
289 Posted 22/05/2017 at 18:55:57
290 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:00:16
291 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:10:33
292 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:12:18
293 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:15:55
He is running out of managers now and should be looking at himself critically to see how he can improve.
294 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:18:33
295 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:32:54
No announcement??? That cant be right. Ronnie deffo said...
296 Posted 22/05/2017 at 19:51:23
I think, at its lowest, this shows that Koeman was speaking without due authority. Alternatively, he had been told that this was the way things would unfold and that he could say so, but has now been undermined.
It is a classic Everton confusion and makes us look amateurish. Of course, if everything had been dealt with privately until it was clear-cut or until Koeman could speak with full and coherent club backing, none of this would have happened.
297 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:00:16
He doesn't say when the statement will be made. He said he will meet the board tomorrow (today), which he did. He said they will make a statement about it, but doesn't say when.
At some point, they will.
298 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:12:37
"At some point...[indefinite]" and "if it goes on for much longer..[a contingency]" do not fit with a reference to speaking to the Board today. The natural inference was that any statement would follow from that meeting and proximately to it.
Anyway, we'd best avoid semantic analysis. I just think it all makes us look sloppy and as though the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. We're very good at this sort of thing.
299 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:16:47
But you're right. No point discussing semantics. Let's just see how it plays out.
300 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:19:06
Could it be there have been broken promises by Moshiri (Lukaku alluded to this) and Koeman is perhaps using this as a means of walking away.
Like most Dutch managers, Koeman, is very head strong and he says it like he see's it which is the best way; no bullshit. I agree with Koeman; if Barkley doesn't want to sign, then the club must do its best to move him on for a fee. That is not bullying in my opinion.
I think there may well be a bit of a power struggle going on behind the scenes with this and perhaps today's meeting with the board may have been a heated affair "back me or sack me" from Koeman.
But onto Barkley. Somebody above mentioned about playing football with a talented mate that reminded of him of Barkley in ways!
If you and all the rest of us get frustrated with Ross, imagine what it must be like for the coaches and managers that can see the skill is there but no matter how they try, none of them to date have got Ross Barkley living up to the hype.
I've been told that, if Barkley reproduced what he does in training come match days, he would indeed be unbelievable but he just seems to drop a level a lot of the time.
Neil Warnock said of Barkley when he sent him back to Everton "He's a smashing player but I can't guarantee him games."
What he really meant was Ross can't do the basic football stuff to go along with his obvious talent , he was a luxury on the football pitch and I'm not having it.
That was back in 2013 at Leeds I think.... Neil fucking Warnock.
Barkley divides opinion because he is a local lad who ALL Evertonians desperately want to do well. If he was from anywhere else, I would argue that he would have been gone by now.
301 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:26:44
I thought of cricketer Graeme Hick; supremely talented, but didn't seem to have the mentality to go with it. When he retired, a reporter suggested that, with his talent, he should have scored 30 Test centuries; Hick replied; 'Yes, but if I had, I'd have been someone else'!
My Rugby-playing son, says that with the New Zealanders, each player knows where the ball is going, before he receives it. Therefore 'thinking time' is eliminated completely. This makes the All-Blacks faster than anyone else. Perhaps Ross needs to take a look at their coaching manual!
302 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:31:11
303 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:31:38
It's in this article at the top of the page, you can't get much clearer than that!
304 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:34:25
Of course this would embarrass Koeman after his recent statements, but that might be a price worth paying if the matter is resolved with Ross staying.
305 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:47:57
306 Posted 22/05/2017 at 21:05:41
You are correct I believe.
How would Ross staying embarrass Koeman?
307 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:00:00
Yes, I know what he said, and perhaps they do know it (the answer). That doesn't mean they have to announce it to us yet. At no time has he said they would announce it immediately.
Everyone is arguing the toss over the rights and wrongs, and nobody knows anything. However, without doubt, Koeman never said he would announce the decision publicly today. People can argue what they believe was inferred all day long.
It's becoming boring.
308 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:04:37
I don't understand... how can he possibly tell us there would be a statement — and now... there is a statement that there will be no statement. Gutted.
That does it for me... so unprofessional. He had me eating out of the palm of his cheesy Dutch hand. Surely there can be no way back after this.
[Pulls finger from large earthen edifice and awaits the inevitable trickle-to-flood effect...]
309 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:29:10
I heard that Ross and Ron had an argument on the training ground. Ron reacted badly to Ross throwing a block of cheese at him and told Ross 'that wasn't mature'.
310 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:30:38
But, I would say that, in the absence of the promised statement, I suspect Ross has been given / asked to think it over and make a call overnight. Otherwise, it's hard to see why nothing has emerged today.
Read into it what ever we will but I don't think the lad is out the door yet...
311 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:37:52
312 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:38:03
313 Posted 22/05/2017 at 22:42:57
If a red - Leicester said about that, the better.
314 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:00:46
Christine and Brent. :)
I just got fed up with the thread as it was just going rind and rind in circles so I thought I would lighten the mood.
315 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:04:15
Jagielka says his Everton team-mates will return for pre-season with points to prove.
He added: “Players want to put down a marker to be part of the manager's plans.
“I'm not sure that was the case for every single one out there so that's perhaps something we need to address.”
"What the fuck does that mean?" I'm not sure...
316 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:05:29
317 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:17:04
318 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:17:17
I would think that if the team captain publicly states that one or more of the players hadn't put a marker down to impress the manager, then they shouldn't be playing for Everton FC, regardless of who those players are.
Jags isn't at the peak of his powers as a player but he always gives 100% even on his bad days, some of the others should be putting in the same effort and until all of them do, the team will struggle to achieve anything of note.
319 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:21:02
320 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:25:48
After every derby defeat, after every cup defeat, after a poor display against a side we should beat, after we fail to sign a player, it's the same old same old shite.
Isn't about time for actions to speak louder. I'm so fucking sick of it.
321 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:38:04
I hope that, when it comes down to putting down a marker pre-season for Koeman, half of those clowns are gone.
322 Posted 22/05/2017 at 23:56:26
323 Posted 22/05/2017 at 00:10:54
324 Posted 23/05/2017 at 00:51:26
326 Posted 23/05/2017 at 01:18:58
327 Posted 23/05/2017 at 03:08:09
Logic v assumption v fact v OPINION. What does it say about the club moving forward when all this debate about Ross going or not going and most on here are resigned to losing Rom, we have become Southampton under Koeman and that's exactly what the board wanted.
328 Posted 23/05/2017 at 03:09:40
If true, then the "What is good for the player" offered to Barkley would have to be raised to "What is exceptional" for Sigurdsson. Again, if true, would it put Barkely's rumoured desire for £100k into any sort of perspective?
329 Posted 23/05/2017 at 03:20:48
I would also take Sigurdsson. I feel Rooney with his experience will add more than Barkley plus assist our younger players coming through.
Barkley has been given enough time and opportunities, remember he is not a kid anymore, he is an international footballer. It is a shame as I like to see the local lads in the side so we would be replacing one from Wavertree with one from Croxteth!
330 Posted 23/05/2017 at 03:55:47
We're dreadfully short and yes, Barkley has not pushed on like I hoped he would. But he is still very young, while not being able to use the excuse of being a young player, he's got years to still improve and grow.
Rooney would help this team in my opinion. He's a player with a winning pedigree which we dreadfully need. Sigurdsson would add quality in attack. Rooney is on his way down but still capable. Barkley could learn a lot from him, as could the rest of the squad.
But what I'd really like to see is the mentality of us supporters to change from replacing a player to adding players. United isn't thinking about replacing anyone with Griezman, they want to add him. City wasn't replacing Aguero with Gabriel Jesus, they added him. We need to demand the Board add the quality that we need and stop this small club selling to buy crap that we've put up with for far too long.
331 Posted 23/05/2017 at 04:44:51
I don't know how all this will pan out with Barkley but I hope he stays. Whenever he plays he's the one who has to create everything.
I'd love to see him in a team with the like of Sigurdson where the creative burden can be shared. Look at Spurs with Alli & Eriksen. There has always been too much pressure on Ross.
332 Posted 23/05/2017 at 05:37:28
333 Posted 23/05/2017 at 06:01:02
Paul T @232
"Code-switch" ? new one on me that.
Would "code-switch" apply to somebody who regularly goes from Tell-it-like-it-is, to Work-that-fucker-out mid sentence?
334 Posted 23/05/2017 at 07:36:39
Now I know it could be complete bollocks and I DON'T know where they get their information from but it had Barkley as earning £48k per week. If my memory serves me correctly Schneiderlin was the highest paid at £110k a week.
There were a few on considerably more than Barkley including Gana (£70k a week), can't remember any more at the moment.
If there's any truth in the alleged offer to Ross of £70k plus addons, and any truth that he's sitting on an offer of £100k a week from another club, which is quite believable looking at the "official" wage bills of each premier league club, then maybe it's not too difficult to believe that Ross's reluctance to re-sign is purely about money.
Looking at the wage bills of all premier league clubs (we were 9th I think) we have to significantly revamp our wage structure if we want to stand any chance at all of attracting the players we need to progress.
On a different note I have to say I've never heard Koeman use Dutch words during any interviews or pressers!
335 Posted 23/05/2017 at 07:52:27
There's usually a ratcheting up effect with time in many clubs, such that salary is partly affected by when a player signed and when their contract is renewed. One player may be behind another, then pass them when re-signing. Doesn't account for it all, but it is a factor.
336 Posted 23/05/2017 at 07:56:06
I cocked up too. It states Gana is on £45k a week not the £70k I stated. Probably all crap anyway!!
337 Posted 23/05/2017 at 08:11:54
338 Posted 23/05/2017 at 12:43:35
If they leave here, both will be bench warming in the top flight of the Premier League. Get rid and grab the money.
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