24/08/2026 86comments  |  Jump to last

(Photo by Naomi Baker/Getty Images)

It’d be fair to say David Moyes finished last season as something like public enemy number 1 among Evertonians.

Not every Evertonian, of course, but a fair chunk of the fanbase seemed ready for a change.

The run-in was dismal and Everton — Moyes, his players and those at the top of the club — all played their part in squandering a fantastic chance to get the club back into Europe.

It might have been ahead of schedule, but development and progress in football is never linear. You can’t just rely on a pre-defined plan; things don’t always happen when you expect them to, and you have to be ready to pounce on an opportunity when it comes your way.

I’m on record as writing that, if the right manager was available at the end of last season, then I’d have been open to a change.

But Everton elected to stay with Moyes, and while there is still some understandable frustration with the Scot, there is no evidence to suggest the club are willing to make a change just yet.

There is also nothing to say that Moyes is seen as Everton’s long-term manager. Indeed, Angus Kinnear had the chance to say something along those lines in his interviews last week, but he strayed clear of committing.

However, I do get the sense that right now, Moyes can’t do right for wrong with some among the fanbase.

Even after Saturday’s win over Crystal Palace, frustration and ire was directed at Moyes for his post-match comments.

Moyes is a cautious, pragmatic manager. Maybe he’s overly cautious and overly pragmatic, and that can come across as negative.

But it is that cautious nature and pragmatism that has seen him manage 20+ seasons in the Premier League. There is a reason only two managers — Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson — have overseen more matches in the competition than Moyes.

Now that pragmatic nature is probably also what, in part, has held Moyes’ teams back, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says has to be looked at through that lens, either.

The comments that seemed to draw particular frustration centred around Harrison Armstrong, who had an excellent game in the heart of Everton’s midfield.

Armstrong was not perfect, and neither was Hayden Hackney, on his Premier League debut, but they dovetailed together nicely and seemed to improve as the game wore on.

Moyes suggested that Armstrong would not perhaps have been playing as much if Everton had a full complement of midfielders available, with James Garner only fit enough for the bench and Christian Nørgaard and Tim Iroegbunam out injured.

However, Moyes was at pains to say, in all of his TV interviews and his post-match press conference, that Armstrong is impressing hugely and currently holds his place on merit.

Yet that, apparently, was too negative. Moyes shouldn’t say anything about Everton’s injuries; instead it should just be blind praise of the teenager.

In no way was Moyes critical of Armstrong, though. What he said was absolutely correct, because in no world is Armstrong, on paper, Everton’s first-choice midfielder if the squad is fully fit and available.

But they aren’t, and over the course of pre-season Armstrong has proved he is a capable player and an exceptional talent and, on Saturday, he showed he can more than hold his own in the Premier League.

That’s fantastic, but it doesn’t mean Armstrong will go through the whole season as first choice. He will have ups and downs, he may sustain an injury or gets suspended. He is 19. He is still learning, and while it is vital that young players do get minutes to develop, I do struggle with this expectation among modern fans that youngsters also have a right to play every single minute they possibly can.

Moyes will always be more cautious than some more progressive or younger coaches. I don’t think you can argue with that. But it doesn’t mean everything he says or does is wrong, or that he’s a dinosaur for suggesting Armstrong may not necessarily have been first choice if Garner — Everton’s Player of the Season last year — or Nørgaard — a reigning Premier League champion — had been available.

That doesn’t mean Moyes doesn’t rate Armstrong, because it’s very clear over the last eight months that he does, and it doesn’t mean Armstrong won’t play, because he will.

The balance has to be right with how Moyes handles Everton’s younger players and it’d be fair to say that he hasn’t always struck that balance. 

I don’t think that’s the case with Armstrong, though. He has been handled well and we are reaping the rewards of that. There’s still a long way to go.

But while we can all get frustrated with Moyes, and I’ll stress again, it’s absolutely fair for him to be criticised, he doesn’t have to be criticised for every single thing, especially when he is just talking sense.

So maybe in this regard, we might all cut Moyes a bit of slack.

Read more - What we learned: Everton 2-0 Crystal Palace

 

Reader Comments (86)

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Keith Harrison
1 Posted 24/08/2026 at 10:31:20
No!

The noose is already too slack.
Alan J Thompson
2 Posted 24/08/2026 at 10:46:07
My doubt is that Moyes is likely to drop Armstrong not because he is playing badly but to replace him with somebody he sees as more experienced and there has been instances of some not playing so well being retained in the side solely, it seems, because of their experience.

Unless Armstrong makes consistent mistakes that lead to goals against or losing possession, then he should be allowed to learn from his mistakes; Ross Barkley springs to mind.

The answer may have to wait until all are fully fit but Garner coming on did make me wonder how fit he might be, having missed the friendlies owing to surgery, while the same may also be said of Norgaard.
Ajay Gopal
3 Posted 24/08/2026 at 10:46:22
Patric, firstly are you really comparing Moyes to Wenger and Ferguson? Those 2 won everything there was to win, and delivered success to their fans. Apart from longevity, what exactly are Moyes achievements?

And on the subject of youngsters, a good manager will select a team based on their recent form and performance, not by reputation. Moyes has a reputation - all throughout his career - to drop in-form players as soon as his favourites become available. Criticising this is valid, isn't it?
Martin Farrington
4 Posted 24/08/2026 at 10:51:16
No !
He's out of touch. Regressive. Has 0 inter personal skills. Stubborn. Dogmatic. Dithering and plain crap
Andrew Ellams
5 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:01:53
No and he certainly doesn't deserve some of praise he's getting for playing two youngsters that he himself admitted only played because he had no other choice.
Paul Hewitt
6 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:03:45
No. He cost the club Europe.
Minik Hansen
7 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:23:23
Fair points, Patric. Although all the new recruitments in midfields makes it harder for Armstrong to breakthrough, I believe there is a plan somewhere, and we all just want to see Armstrong thrive in such a young age. That's what we've been hoping for, apparently for the last 10 seasons or so.. He's getting minutes, we can only hope for more.

A good thing with Moyes I can say is his time at West Ham. After giving them silverware, he left in good terms with the fans, and could've kept improving them in his own way. We will see the real work in September-October, whether or not, it pays off here at Everton. He knows the drill, he just needs others around him to do the right things.
Jimmy Salt
8 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:27:10
Putting aside my personal opinion on Moyes, I wonder what our manager's mindset is for this season.
There seems to be a disconnect with him and the board/owners, and this is probably due to his contract having one season left with no sign of a renewal.
What are the clubs' long-term plans? It's looking likely that Moyes isn't a part of it, so where does that leave him and his ambition for the season?
Will he go for it and try to go out in a blaze of glory? Not likely, but it would be interesting at least.
Or will he just run his contract out his way? stubborn, pragmatic,dithering etc.
It's not a healthy position for a club to be in with the very real threat of players downing tools if things don't go right, as he won't be here long.
There are an intriguing few months ahead.
John Collins
9 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:42:34
Yes.
A ton of nutty poured over him.
Kevin Molloy
10 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:43:31
of course he is. he's come back steered us towards safety almost immediately after five years of horror. And he's had to put up with Angus and his bullshit all year. I've no doubt whatsoever that he flagged up the squad needed reinforcing last year, and that knobhead sat on his hands leading to the nosedive.
And here we are now, with the billionaires refusing to spend on fullbacks. And he's signalling to the fanbase that that's what their MO is. He didn't need to do that, he could have kept his mouth shut and just taken the money.
Steve Jones
11 Posted 24/08/2026 at 11:52:08
Nice Piece Patric.

Very sensible and balanced.

I'm a Moyes fan and although can see the pain of the run in and how it impacted the fan base confidence, I can also see all the strong changes he is making. He is building a great foundation for years to come.

He has turned an aging, highly paid, low ceiling squad into a younger, progressive and high ceiling group of players. With lots of value on upsale in the coming years.

Virtually all the players state that he is the reason why they have come to Everton, amongst other things as well. Some of the comments from players about positive vibes and leadership are consistent. He is a passionate Evertonian and I don't know any other Manager that could have come in from Dyche and immediately turn it around like he did.

His masterstroke of immedialey getting JOB on the pitch at right back worked a treat in that period. His use of Rohl as an attacking progressive RB on Saturday another good selection - not in line with all the negative comments on here.

As for the made up gap between Moyes and Kinnear etc is plain fabrication. They are 100% on the same page and both have said there is much work to do in the transfer window. Proof etc in the eating but we have a clear focus on RB and they refer to getting additions in other positions as well - presume strikers plus some exits.

Lets be balanced as a supporter group - pure negativity and making things up does not make for enjoyable reading.

I believe Preston is a difficult hurdle and with three games in 8 days it will be a difficult shout on selection for Wednesday with a partially fit squad still missing a couple of additions.

Lets get behind the Manager, CEO, Recruitment Team and the rest of the coaching and management staff.

COYB's !!!
Eric Haworth
12 Posted 24/08/2026 at 12:01:11
Hahaha, Patric, are you sure you didn't make prior arrangements with the above contributors to give the required validity to your article??? Hahaha.

Albeit it still doesn't absolve him from responsibility for Global Warming, Pandemic, Middle East & Ukraine conflicts etc.🤷‍♂️
Eric Myles
13 Posted 24/08/2026 at 12:28:06
Cut Moyes some slack, you say, Patric?

You must be new to ToffeeWeb!
Anthony O'Sullivan
14 Posted 24/08/2026 at 12:42:16
A few things can be true at the same time.

It's true he took a team only fit for a relegation battle and got them in contention for Europe. This is a massive achievement.

It's also true that he messed up the last 7 games and lost that opportunity by not being brave.

His dogged, structured style had the team over deliver on the first point. But It was also the reason he under delivered on the second as the squad ran out of steam.

The funny thing is, if he had farted around in 14th or 15th all season and we were safe with 3 or 4 games to go, it would have been hailed as a successful season.

It's the hope that kills you.
Raymond Fox
15 Posted 24/08/2026 at 12:55:55
Patric, anyone supporting Moyes is treated as a mental case by most posters on the site.

We keep going over the same ground, back and forth. As I have said a few times, give him credit when it's due. Last season, yes, we flopped at the end of the season... but he got us into a better position up to then that I for one didn't foresee at the start of the season.

We are all frustrated with our lack of success but to keep blaming managers for it, is forgetting all the other elements that you need for a winning club, most importantly the players.

Find what we think of as a better manager by all means, but we have tried many with little or no difference to results.
Stu Gre
16 Posted 24/08/2026 at 12:57:05
Steve 11, I appreciate your pro-Moyes opinions but using the word 'masterstroke' for something that Moyes didn't learn from when it failed is perhaps a little too flattering for me.

The interesting thing about this article, Patric, is that we won't know if Moyes deserves some slack for a few weeks. When everyone is fit, and his favourites aren't on form -- do the squad players get a chance? History suggests... no they don't, as illustrated so glaringly at the end of last season.

I will never hide the fact that I think Moyes is the wrong manager. No, he isn't building a strong foundation -- arguably successive managers after his first term struggled to overcome the mess he created.

Yes, he makes it look stable... but -- until he shows consistent progressive ideas -- he cannot deserve any slack after so long in charge with no success.
Mike Allison
17 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:08:53
He's stopped playing O'Brien at right back and chosen a more progressive option -- credit.

He's getting the best out of certain players -- credit.

He completely ignores other players even though there's not much wrong with them -- credit against.

He's “turned an aging, highly paid, low ceiling squad into a younger, progressive and high ceiling group of players. With lots of value on upsale in the coming years.” -- absolutely no credit.

It seems clear to me that these signings are the recruitment team that many lambast. These are the signings that owners want. Moyes resists these players and won't play them (see Dibling, Aznou, Alcaraz, Röhl for most of last season).

He even stated that he wouldn't play Hackney if others were available. Moyes wants the likes of Norgaard and Tarkowski. He probably wanted Gueye re-signed.

My reading of our transfer policy under TFG is that we've signed very well and Moyes has failed to use and develop them.

The ‘disconnect' seems to be that the owners and executives want to recruit in the “Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford” model where Moyes wants aging, ‘ready now' players who will join his clique.

I've said elsewhere that Moyes clearly must do a slightly hidden c.80% of the job really well (discipline, work ethic, professionalism, team unity, ‘Plan A' tactical preparation) but seems to be weirdly stubborn in the visible 20% of the job (team selection, tactical flexibility, substitutions and media interaction).

ToffeeWeb often falls into the trap of insisting on a binary opinion of Moyes -- he's either all bad and “has to go now!” or he's the only man who could have saved us and “who could do better?” -- so how dare you criticise him?

Amazingly, this is over simplified. Moyes does plenty right, but his mistakes and weaknesses are so glaring that we all see them and he often seems unwilling to learn and develop simply on principle because he seems to think he must know best.

Playing a midfielder at right-back instead of a centre-back is a tiny step forward... Can he take more?
Michael Kenrick
18 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:10:44
Let's look at some facts about Harrison Armstrong's playing time last season.

From 4 January (after he's returned from loan) he played in every Everton game until 28 February, a total of 10 games on the trot. I think it's fair to say most Everton fans were impressed with him and could see a developing talent there... if he was given game time.

But Moyes decided he was getting a bit too big for his boots. So, for the next 10 matches that took us to the end of the season, Armstrong was sat on the bench, getting just three runouts of 4 minutes, 1 minute, and 28 minutes in the final end-of-season fiasco.

With the team visibly crumbling in each successive game as that terrible run-in dragged out, his senior players supposedly gassed out through having to play too many games, Moyes resolutely refused to give one of his most promising young prodigies decent game time.

It's gonna take me a long time to recover from witnessing that.
Phil Roberts
19 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:15:09
The comments that he took the 10 under Dyche and stopped the headlong rush to relegation and then had us safe at the end of Feb are so true.

He could have switched the team around last year, but with just Patterson, McNeil, Dibling, George, Alcaraz, Aznou and Armstrong being the only available changes in the last 4 games to change the starting XI, the gung-ho among you would have taken a chance on 4 of the latter 5. But who out of Röhl, Garner, Ireogbunam, KDH and N'diaye would have been dropped to make way for them?

His real test will be this year where there is now a choice of players for each position. Will he switch them around? Will he play a different team depending on the opposition and whether it is home or away.

Wednesday will be the test. Aznou for Mykolenko? Dibling for N'diaye, Garner for Armstrong (he needs minutes), Alcaraz for KDH, Johnson for George, O'Brien for Branthwaite (not 2 games a week yet), Beto for Barry (Nooooo!), Travers for Pickford. If he does that then if he loses he will be slated by those on here, except all he has done is what a lot on here are calling for and switching the team around.
Steve Jones
20 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:15:33
Stu @16 and Anthony @14

Yes Stu - as Anthony stated - two things can be true at the same time. It was a major uplift to the team and a masterstroke at the time. Dyche didnt give him one minute.

At the tail end of last season - for whatever reason, lack of focus, jaded mindset, unnatural fit of a 6ft 6in CB in the RB position - it surfaced as a problem and it became clear it began to unravel.

That miss control for the first Sunderland goal was in part not having the right body shape and natural turn to the right side of a natural RB, caused the whole thing to blow up in our face.

Still think the initial decision was a masterstroke for that season and in part getting us into a good position for potential European places.

Moyes has corrected this in pre-season and on Saturday. He still may use JOB at RB on Wednesday if from the start or during the game he needs Rohl to move into CM to say replace Hackney to save him for the weekend.

Clearly we need to get a new RB and the problem is fixed - for now.
Phil Roberts
22 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:17:41
Michael, lets also look at the playing time of Harrison in the pre-season.

He was the only player to start 6 of the 7 games
Came on as sub in the 7th so the only player to play a part in every game
Had more minutes than anyone else.

While it is easy to say he should have played, nobody ever says who he should have replaced?

Garner?
KDH?
Gueye?
N'diaye?

The only option was McNeil but everyone was saying he should not be stuck out on the wing.
All well and good to say he should be played, but how? We can't play 12 players.
Stan Grace
23 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:20:09
I didn't want David Moyes' back as I had become bored of his tactics and style of football from around 2006. Even his best winning streak at the club was a series of 1-0 or 2-1 results.

However, he should take the credit (players too) for the turnaround after Sean Dyche left. Last year some things continued to improve but the biggest factor as to why Everton had a chance of European qualification was that Chelsea, Tottenham, Newcastle and Forest were having poor seasons. And in reality there were several other clubs apart from ourselves till who had a chance of European qualification during the last few games.

For me, Grealish's injury in particular led Moyes to return to his most cautious and pragmatic version.

I think the club will keep him on this season. Whether he gets Everton to qualify for Europe this season really depends on having few major injuries and making some key signings over the next several days and some other clubs having poorer seasons (Villa, Forest, Spurs, Sunderland, Bournemouth, Brentford, etc).
Michael Kenrick
24 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:32:36
Phil,

It's a pathetic deflection and you've used it numerous times.

Everyone and their dog knows Moyes is hopeless, absolutely hopeless, at making full use of the squad available, and the number of subs allowed.

If you can't figure out for yourself how that might have been used to make sure Armstrong continued to get vital playing minutes last season, I can't help you.
Steve Jones
25 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:33:20
Stu @16

"I will never hide the fact that I think Moyes is the wrong manager. No, he isn't building a strong foundation -- arguably successive managers after his first term struggled to overcome the mess he created."

A mess of a squad that Martinez in his first season got us to 5th position with 72 points.

Sorry Stu - this is a non fact - he did not leave a mess.
Mike Allison
26 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:48:23
Phil, 19, It is literally his job to judge which players to bring in and how much to change things. Last season he failed to make enough changes, that doesn’t mean he should now make as many as possible.

To answer your question about last season, one of Keane or Tarkowski should have been left out, O’Brien played centrally and Patterson (or, it turns out, maybe Röhl) played at right back. Dibling and George should have been given time on the wings in place of Röhl/McNeil and even N’Diaye, who should have been used as an impact substitute rather than being flogged for 90 minutes every match. Alcaraz should have had time on the pitch, either in place of Dewsbury-Hall when he looked knackered, or Gueye (who always looked knackered) with Dewsbury-Hall dropping into his more natural position alongside Garner - especially when the match situation required us to push for the next goal. Aznou should have come on for Mykolenko in those situations too. Armstrong could have replaced Gueye, either from the start or with 25-30 minutes remaining. Even if these things hadn’t worked, we’d be no worse off than we were, and we’d have developed and improved young players through experience. I don’t think I’m such a genius that no-one else can think of these things. I think lots of people saw these things, but apparently they never occurred to Moyes or anyone else on the coaching staff.

There are more than 11 players in the squad good enough to be on the pitch. Some of them should start on Wednesday. We should also consider the Carabao Cup to be our best chance of a trophy and take it very, very seriously. This, again, is not binary. There is a trade off between being strong and making sure everyone in the squad gets match fit and feels involved.

Pickford didn’t do pre-season, so needs games. No-one is ‘knackered’ so no-one needs resting. Dibling needs to play, Alcaraz needs to play. Branthwaite will presumably be replaced by O’Brien as a precaution, so Tarkowski needs to play so that you haven’t changed both centre backs. If Röhl is going to be our right-back, he needs to play there to become more familiar with the position. Hackney, George and Armstrong need games and Barry is also probably better off staying in as they’ve all started well and you don’t want to interrupt that. I don’t know much about Aznou, but he needs to be given a chance and this is the best opportunity we’ll get for a long time.

Again, this is Moyes’ job. It’s not that difficult and he’s very well paid for it. It should be something like:

Pickford
Röhl - Tarkowski - O’Brien - Aznou
Hackney - Armstrong
Dibling - Alcaraz - George
Barry

Subs planned to bring on: Johnson, N’Diaye, Garner, Dewsbury-Hall. Ready if needed: Mykolenko, Branthwaite and Patterson.

Some players continue their momentum, other players get their chance, substitutions make the team stronger as the game goes on and a clear signal is sent out that Everton mean business.
Andrew Ellams
27 Posted 24/08/2026 at 13:49:23
Phil @ 22, Armstrong got those minutes preseason because Garner and Norgaard didn't manage a single minute between them and Mr Integration didn't think Hackney was ready to join in the first couple.

Armstrong will be benched as soon as Garner is deemed fit enough to start.
Stu Gre
28 Posted 24/08/2026 at 14:27:51
Steve 25,

To quote you Yes Stu - as Anthony stated - two things can be true at the same time

The bounce we saw from Martinez may well be that 2 worlds colliding caused a perfect storm. The moment the more progressive manager tried to unpick the rigid foundations the following seasons, the wheels fell off.

But hey, after 16 years of failure Moyes might prove me wrong
Steve Brown
29 Posted 24/08/2026 at 14:28:06
Phil @ 22,

Better to use last season as a representative sample:

Net spend - £96.9 million
Players used to - 20th
Subs made - 20th
Minutes by sub - 20th
The average age of signings in Moyes' second spell - under 24
Minutes by players under 24 years old - 17th

Moyes did not use substitutes properly, he did not rotate the squad and he did not give enough minutes to the young players the club signed for him.

Garner, KDH, Gueye and Ndiaye could have all been dropped at stages last season. Garner and KDH fell away badly from March onwards, while Gueye and Ndiaye were poor after Afcon.

Will he learn the lessons this season? He played the youngsters on Saturday and they did him proud; let’s see if they keep thei places when Garner and Norgaard are fully fit.

As for subs, Palace had 5 fresh players on the field before we made a single substitution on Saturday. It gave them momentum in the game instead of us pushing on.
Tony Abrahams
30 Posted 24/08/2026 at 14:35:19
I can't even be bothered to read the article after looking at the headline, Patric, and believe you would do well working for the club itself, mate.

The reason I feel like this is that I think such articles or statements are premature, just like the one the club put out after we won at Old Trafford last season, thanking everyone for staying with the club through the dark times, like we had just won the European Cup.

Some people like Moyes, a lot of people think he is an okay manager, and some people think he would be a lot better manager if he was braver and was prepared to rotate and keep his squad fresh, competitive and involved.

I personally think I need to see how the season develops before I can say if I've got any real faith in David Moyes, other than him returning us to mediocrity.
Ian Wilkins
31 Posted 24/08/2026 at 14:36:17
I thought that Moyes was a sensible short-term choice to stabilise the club after Moshiri and then relegation flirtations. He's due the credit for doing just that.

Beyond that, his style of football, pragmatic tactics and team selections impose a ceiling and limit progress. It's all very safe and won't change. That might suit our owners currently, but if you want to move the club forwards, I don't think he's the man.

If they thought he was, then you'd assume they'd give him a longer contract, which he'd like. So we're currently the in-betweeners. Transfer committee pushing youth and potential, Moyes pushing experience.

Moyes's tenure has a fixed timeline. The owners won't back all of his proposed signings. So we are treading water somewhat this season.

It would have made sense, when a number of younger managers were available this Summer, to negotiate an amicable settlement and let Moyes take the Scotland job.
Mark Steers
32 Posted 24/08/2026 at 14:43:08
Armstrong is a Rolls-Royce, quite simple, but I think he should be rested for Saturday, and I think Moyes will do that. O'Brien and Keane will probably play... both have done well together a few times before.

It was poor by Moyes to bring Garner on against Palace when he was nowhere near the pace. But, like last season and his 11 years before, Moyes drains his players. George and Barry should both have gone off 15 minutes earlier, they had run their race.

Moyes is here at least till the end of the season... absolute no doubt. I know the squad quality is way better than last season, so the owners won't bother Moyes you must be mad if you cant see that.

Keep the faith -- we're moving forward... that's for sure.
Mike Gaynes
33 Posted 24/08/2026 at 14:54:18
The perfect ToffeeWeb article, Patric. A balanced treatment of the one topic guaranteed to generate the most, and most passionate, responses from the congregation. And that's how it has turned out – some great posts arguing both sides, but free of the venom that too often characterizes the Davy Debate.

Well in.

There have been two unique comments here that have grabbed my attention. One is Steve Jones's characterization of Moyes's installation of O'Brien at right-back as a "masterstroke" -- which, on reflection, it was.

He took an unused player off the end of his bench and stuck him in a position he'd never played. Nobody else had thought of it.

The club promptly roared off the bottom to achieve security by season's end, and then went on to have a very good 4/5ths of a season before the wheels came off, all with Jake in that obviously uncomfortable position. Steve's conclusion is hard to argue.

The other is Ian Wilkins's remark about "letting" Moyes take the Scotland job. There was never the slightest indication that he was interested in that position. The mere fact that he's a Scot lends little credibility to the idea that Moyes would leave a Premier League club that contended for Europe last season for an adrift national team program (#42 in the world) at a 90% cut from his current pay level. It never made a bit of sense for Moyes, and it clearly made no sense for the employer who -- for better or worse -- holds him in high regard.
Andrew Merrick
34 Posted 24/08/2026 at 15:12:44
John 9,

I saw what you said there, whilst smoking some Ogden's Nutty Flake perhaps?
Christy Ring
35 Posted 24/08/2026 at 15:28:30
Moyes did admit Armstrong and Hackney wouldn't have played on Saturday if Garner and Norgaard had been fully fit. He said both played well, but expecting a lot more from Armstrong in the coming season? Could he not just praise the guys and just say they deserve to keep their place on merit???

That's the problem with Moyes, no matter how well the youngsters play, he'll go back to the tried and trusted, and maybe give them the last 10 or 15 minutes at the end of a game.

He's still whinging that the finish at the end of last season wasn't a failure. We didn't win any of our last seven games, Ndiaye and Dewsbury-Hall were running on empty, he never changed Tarkowski and Keane, and never freshened the team up, leaving George, Armstrong and Alcaraz sitting on the bench, and then having a go at the fans who thought we should have done better?
Andrea Jacobs
36 Posted 24/08/2026 at 15:35:41
It's amazing how everyone on here knows how to manage in the Premier League better than a fella who has been doing it for 20+ years. If we won the League this season without conceding a goal, I don't think that would be enough for certain people to cut Moyes some slack.

There would be all these caveats -- ‘Well, if he didn't have Pickford making all those wonder-saves… The League was crap this season... and if Arsenal hadn't had that injury-crisis... he got very lucky, Moyes -- if he hadn't got that striker on deadline day who scored 30 goals, it would've never happened... and he never gave Dibling enough game-time... awful manager, useless.'
Mark Taylor
37 Posted 24/08/2026 at 15:50:49
I'd agree with Ian @31 and a few others, this is not binary. Moyes is not public enemy number 1, the worst manager ever etc.

He has consistently met one basic criterion, which is to keep the club in the Premier League every year he has managed us, and mostly through times when money has been in very short supply.

If staying in the Premier League was the limit of your ambition, you'd pick Moyes; he will almost certainly deliver that and needs not much better than a mediocre squad to do it.

And that really comes back to the owners. What do you want? Safety or risk? Stick or twist?

There has been much fighting talk from our CEO on this but I don't see any real evidence for those ambitions beyond merely stating them. My hunch is that their version of our immediate future is take these couple of years when we have the potential to significantly grow our revenue year on year, first via the stadium, then by smarter commercial, and get us to £300M plus but with the SCR well within the limit (and maybe closer to the European limit of 70%).

Then you have to decide whether you are willing to give it a go because, from that point, only Champions League will seriously grow our revenue in a step-jump way.

Aston Villa and Newcastle are maybe canaries in the coal mine for our owners: what happens when you fly too close to the sun. They've already made what I suspect is a very nice paper profit on their transaction, having deservedly mugged Moshiri, and they may not wish to put that at risk.

On that line of reasoning, we may be stuck with Moyes for longer than you think... and while I know Mike G disagrees, I wouldn't be surprised to see us flipped in the next few years.

If they choose not to renew Moyes's contract next year and go for a younger, hungrier manager, then we'll be in for a much more exciting ride.
Stu Gre
38 Posted 24/08/2026 at 15:53:47
Hi Andrea,

I don't think any of us would profess to know what it takes to manage a Premier League club, but that doesn't mean we can't have objective opinions based on years of experience as fans.

I personally don't think Moyes knows what it is like to be a true fan of Everton but he still has opinions of us, but from a different perspective.

If this was Moyes's first third season in charge, I suspect most of his critics would be more forgiving. But we are in a "boy who cried wolf" situation... so, even if he does change, it's almost too late in his career -- or certainly too early this season -- to determine whether he will get the slack that change deserves.

Like Tony said, though, it's too early for this article and I also agree, and have stated previously, a more adventurous approach could yet change the opinion of some of us -- but that hasn't happened yet.
Mike Allison
39 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:11:27
Andrea, so basically your point is “How dare you have an opinion, you're not a manager.”

I think you might be in the wrong place if you're upset that fans have opinions about football.

There's so much wrong with your post, on so many levels, that it is hard to know where to start. So I won't.

Next time, argue a case rather than using weak sarcasm to dismiss the very idea of anyone else daring to argue theirs.

I can promise you, if he won the league without conceding a goal, he'd get nothing but praise from anyone. He gets criticism because he deserves it and it's justified. Try engaging with what people are actually saying -- which bit of the criticism do you think is incorrect?

Or are we just not allowed to have opinions at all?
Paul Hewitt
40 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:19:45
Stu @38.

Speak for yourself. I've won the Champions League in Football Manager with Everton. :)
Steve Brown
41 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:27:41
Everton expected to listen to offers for Jake O'Brien ahead of next week's deadline.

Bids also expected for Beto.

So keep Keane, make Tarkowski captain and sell O'Brien. Hilarious.
Paul Hewitt
42 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:38:52
Hope that's just bullshit, Steve...

But I wouldn't be surprised.
Steve Brown
43 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:43:11
Paddy Boyland reporting in the Athletic, Paul.

Classic Moyes imo. Jake O'Brien was doomed from the moment he told him he didn't want to play right-back anymore.
Rob Jones
44 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:50:27
I am reeling about that O'Brien stuff.

We shouldn't be selling off our future to accommodate the fact that our manager prioritises physicality over creativity at right-back, or the fact he's besotted with Tarkowski, who's past his best, at the expense of a young, bright giant of a man in O'Brien.
Mike Gaynes
45 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:52:09
It would be monumentally, massively stupid to sell Jake at any price. Should be starting now and is definitely the future. And to leave us with three senior CBs, the best of whom is injury-prone, would be total insanity.
Ian Wilkins
46 Posted 24/08/2026 at 16:58:06
If the O'Brien rumour has any truth, I'd assume we have a new centre-back in mind. We wouldn't leave ourselves exposed with just Keane, Tarkowski and injury-prone Branthwaite.

Maybe O'Brien is tired of being 4th choice centre-back and wants more game time in the middle.
Kevin Molloy
47 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:01:41
For a newly promoted team to pick up O'Brien, Iroegbunam and Beto for £60M would be cracking business. Could be the difference between them staying up and going down.

I can understand this, Jake must have thought when he said no more full-back that he'd be given a go in the centre, and that just hasn't happened. Moyes just prefers Tarkowski (who never gets injured).

He Just can't face another year on the bench, and I don't blame him. He could be one frustrated boy if the right offer doesn't present and/or we can't source a replacement.

I suspect this announcement is a favour to him, so he's clear that we did try and do right by him, so that he will knuckle down if it all goes pear-shaped!
Andrea Jacobs
48 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:32:01
At what point did I say no one can have opinions on how to manage Everton? Please, keep ‘em coming, I enjoy reading them, they're hilarious.

Sorry for doing ToffeeWeb wrong; I'll just stick to reading it from now on.
Phil Roberts
49 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:32:32
Is O'Brien older or younger than Branthwaite? Now there is a question.

How many times has he started for Ireland? Another good question. Not a regular starter for the 55th-ranked team in the world.

Apart from being 8½ years younger than Tarkowski, where else is he better?\

We bought him for £16.5M. If we can sell him at a profit, are there better and/or younger options out there?

Please take off the rose-tinted glasses before answering.
Andrew Ellams
50 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:38:01
I don't rate O'Brien as much as some do although I think there are quite a few who seem to rate him as a centre-back despite not really seeing him play there.

To me, I don't think he offers anything more than Tarkowski or Keane apart from being younger and a bit more mobile.

Saying that, though, it would be insane to sell him if there isn't somebody else in the pipeline -- and not somebody the wrong side of 30!
Terry Downes
51 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:38:08
If Moyes decides to sell O'Brien, then that proves he's a knob and deserves no slack whatsoever. We need to keep O'Brien, and get rid of Keane, if anyone.

Why keep two old ones when we've got two younger -- and possibly better? This club -- if they do sell -- is just unbelievable!
Andrew Ellams
52 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:44:31
But we would need somebody to buy Keane, Terry.

He won't be at the club next season.
Liam Mogan
53 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:48:04
Moyes was never going to take the Scotland job whilst he is in one that pays so well.
Raymond Fox
54 Posted 24/08/2026 at 17:50:59
There's no way they will sell O'Brien unless he's downed tools and has asked to leave. We could do with another centre-back never mind selling Jake.

Who knows what the ins and outs will be in this window? I've no doubt there will be a surprise or two...

The usual suspects have been hoovering up all the talent off the other teams in the Premier League and elsewhere while we have been shopping at Aldi. It's little wonder that we know who the Top 4 will probably be.
Martin Berry
55 Posted 24/08/2026 at 18:21:06
I really love the Moyes haters here, it really says a lot of the moaning bunch of ungrateful people, and they call the Red Shite bitter!

He saves us from relegation, stabilizes the club last season, slowly is rebuilding the side with clever signings, young players showing up well, an impressive start to the season albeit only one game in, yet the knives are still out at the gunfight for him.

I really hope he makes you eat Lineker's soiled shorts at the end of the season when he gets us into Europe. It must grate you like sand in your underpants to think Moyes will do well. I relish the thought of you squirming at the thought.
Stu Gre
56 Posted 24/08/2026 at 18:22:40
In defense of Moyes... (me?). If it;s a case of needing to sell someone to bring in a quality right-back and striker, PSR and all that, Jake is probably a good option.

If not, who else is there that would bring in enough profit (if your hands are tied)?
Christy Ring
57 Posted 24/08/2026 at 18:23:19
Phil #49,

Check again, O'Brien was a regular starter in a back three and back four for Ireland in the World Cup campaign.

I think you should take off the rose-tinted glasses, so sell a 25-year-old 6'-6" centre-back and keep two 33-year-olds in Tarkowski and Keane. Moyes would still have to sign another centre-back, and hope Branthwaite stays fit... absolute madness.

When Jake played centre-back against Forest last season, he was immense. It's typical Moyes, because he probably told him, he didn't want to play full-back anymore?
Stan Grace
58 Posted 24/08/2026 at 18:36:18
Martin #55,

"He saves us from relegation, stabilizes the club last season, slowly is rebuilding the side with clever signings, young players showing up well."

What you are praising Moyes for at Everton, Sean Dyche had already done: he rescued Everton from relegation, earned 48 points on the pitch in 2023-24 despite an 8-point PSR deduction, built one of the Premier League's best defences and beat Liverpool 2–0 at Goodison.

He also recruited and developed young players who remain important to Everton, including Iliman Ndiaye, Jake O'Brien and Tim Iroegbunam, while giving Branthwaite his breakthrough.

Moyes deserves some credit, but much of this isn't unprecedented at Everton — Dyche had already achieved remarkably similar things in more difficult circumstances.
David West
59 Posted 24/08/2026 at 18:54:26
I'm no Moyes Fan, I'd rather have someone else, but he's here, and here unless it goes properly tits-up.

I'd be more pissed off and worried if we'd brought a load of old journeymen in this summer, like many predicted.

I hate the negativity, the tempering expectations, the "aim low to overachieve" attitude, but I can also still hope we do well under him, knowing he's here unless we are truly terrible.

I'll still be unbiased if we play well, his selections are good, the signings we've made. He was always a divisive appointment.

There's many that don't even care if he does amazing, they don't want him, didn't want him, and will lay everything at his door -- performances, wins, signings, Champions League football won't change that... So don't expect people's opinions to change even if we are flying.

That's the reason I didn't want him back: he'll never have 100% support... not many managers do, but they don't start with a huge percentage who already have made up their minds and have previous gripes with him.
Keith Harrison
60 Posted 24/08/2026 at 18:56:19
Jake wants to leave to get regular football at his position: centre-back. Shoehorned into a position he is clearly not suitable to play in the Premier League at the level required, he was happy to get game time.

Now, seeing Moyes make Tarkowski club captain, giving himself an excuse to pick him every week, has probably made Jake realise he would need to move on to play.

It wasn't a masterstroke to play him there. I honestly can't remember Patterson having a game bad enough for us that successive managers would not play him.

David Moyes has played players out of position for years, and is terrified of dropping senior players, which suggests to me he cannot man-manage. He's had both enough slack, and more than enough rope. Time for the pitchforks
David West
61 Posted 24/08/2026 at 19:21:01
Keith,

Do you remember Patterson having a good game?
Moyes isn't holding back this super-talented right-back from setting the world alight.

Playing O'Brien at right-back was -- 'was' is the important word -- a good decision. Patterson is clearly not good enough at this level.

Continuing to use O'Brien or relying on Rohl this season, and not bringing in someone, would be a much worse decision.
Mike Corcoran
62 Posted 24/08/2026 at 19:48:15
This whole right-back saga must be so embarrassing for Craig... errrr, Nathan!
Mike Gaynes
63 Posted 24/08/2026 at 19:55:36
I have a special affection for Jake O'Brien, not just as a talented young footballer who voluntarily played out of position to help his club, but as the only type 1 diabetic in top level world football at the moment.

His is the kind of perseverance that Everton should be embracing for the long-term, not shipping out to somebody else.

If Moyes does this, and TFG approves it, they are morons.
Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 24/08/2026 at 21:03:06
Martin @55,

If he gets us into Europe, I sincerely hope it's because we win one of the cup competitions, mate.🤞

Andrew Merrick
65 Posted 24/08/2026 at 21:14:16
Agree Mike, and as a type 1 myself, hats off to Jake.

As soon as I read the captaincy award, I was worried...

If Jake goes, it's on Moyes's head... unbelievable stuff!
Joe McMahon
66 Posted 24/08/2026 at 21:18:25
Please tell me Jake O'Brien isn't leaving. The Burnley pair from 10 years ago are past it and Branthwaite is injury-prone.

What other professional football club anywhere would consider this! If this happens, Moyes is more of a tosser than I thought.
Christy Ring
67 Posted 24/08/2026 at 21:28:21
Can Moyes and his recruitment team just bring in a fullback and striker this week?

We cannot afford to lose O'Brien -- making Tarkowski captain probably shut any chance of him getting a starting place in the middle.

But if he sells him, doesn't Moyes know we're down to three centre-backs, or is he going to put more square pegs in round holes???
John Collins
68 Posted 24/08/2026 at 22:02:28
He must have a centre-back and a right-back ready to come in if Jake is going.
Mike Gaynes
69 Posted 24/08/2026 at 22:13:47
Andrew #50 drops the turd about O'Brien that we "seem to rate him as a centre-back despite not really seeing him play there."

Somebody hasn't been paying attention.

Over the past two seasons, we have all seen Jake start 9 games at centre-back, playing the full 90 in all.

Our record in those 9 games is 5 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses, with just 6 goals given up.

Yep. We rate him.
Bobby Mallon
70 Posted 24/08/2026 at 22:14:24
No
Ian Wilkins
71 Posted 24/08/2026 at 22:35:51
We wouldn't choose to lose someone who can play two positions, especially when, as things stand, he's probably still our best ‘stand-in' right-back.

Either he's pushing hard to go because he doesn't see any football time, in which case Moyes needs to manage him, and his game time, as he would have to with a deeper squad.

Or we have replacements lined up. I'm not convinced of the latter.
Derek Thomas
72 Posted 24/08/2026 at 22:51:09
Disclaimer: Going off the title only, my initial reaction is: No.

With Moyes -- and to be fair, all the others -- there's always a sighting of one swallow and I've lost count of the number of false dawns... but up to now, they've never amounted to anything.

Moyes always reverts, he can't help himself. We've all heard of TACO... well, meet MACO -- Moyes Always Chickens Out.

And on past performance, which is all we have to go on, if Norgaard and Garner were fit, there's no way that Hackney and Armstrong start on Saturday.... Prove me wrong.

Played 1; Won 1. One win is not a trend. Seven no-wins at the end of last season, now that's a trend. You're not 'only as good as your last game' -- that's history.

Nobody knows just how good or bad Palace will turn out to be this season (or us for that matter!...which I presume is the whole point of the piece); you're only as good as your next game. 'Show me the money' as it were.

Nobody would love it more than me -- but I'll not hold me breath.
Stu Gre
73 Posted 24/08/2026 at 23:23:52
Mike @69, interesting stat. What it also shows is we have better results when O'Brien isn't at right-back as well. In fact, very little to go on here, but I think Jake at centre-back with the much maligned Patterson at right-back yielded some good, albeit infrequent results.

I'd love to understand the thinking behind constantly playing seemingly a dominant centre-back at right-back. I get it worked initially but, particularly when Jarrad got injured, why play a less mobile backline?

What had Patterson done that was so bad we ended up with a creaking back 4 of O'Brien, Tarkowski, Keane and Mykolenko?
John Collins
74 Posted 24/08/2026 at 23:26:31
He should get the same amount of slack as any other manager who spent £115M to improve on his predecessors record by 1 point.

The same amount of slack as any other manager who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory last season.
Dan Murphy
75 Posted 24/08/2026 at 23:43:24
Moyes got Everton into the Champions League with Marcus Bent as his only striker.

Whenever Moyes has had time and money, he's put together strong teams that play good football. Anyone remember Arteta, Cahill, Baines, Pienaar, Lescott all on the pitch together?

Moyes won that lesser European trophy with West Ham. Then their HammerWeb posters drove him out because he was boring, a dinosaur etc. Where are they now?

I am quite confident if we dumped Moyes for an up-and-coming continental manager with a 'philosophy', we'd end up in trouble too.
Brian Wilkinson
76 Posted 24/08/2026 at 23:43:52
What odds both Keane and Tarkowski start in the cup on Wednesday, with Branthwaite rested, and O'Brien dropped again? The moment Moyes made Tarkowski captain, it was nailed on he would start every league game.

Sheer madness if the rumours are true, and we let O'Brien go... one slight injury to Branthwaite, and we are stuck with Keane and Tarkowski as the centre-back pairing.

The same two who were shipping in 2 and 3 goals a week in the final 8 games, just as Beto and Barry found their scoring boots, but Moyes refused to drop either of Tarkowski or Keane.

'Give him some Slack'? My arse!

Rohl got Man of the Match at Villa Park last season, because Moyes's hand was forced, dropped and never got a sniff after that until towards the end of the season.

I just hope we do not get Grealish or George will be on the bench every week if we do.
Mike Gaynes
77 Posted 24/08/2026 at 23:49:55
Stu 73, as I've always said about Patterson, I have no idea what is so wrong with him, but every manager he has played for has seen it and said, no thanks.

Lampard, Dyche and now Moyes all gave him his chance to win the job – and then put him back on the bench. In his Everton career, even when healthy, he has lost out to not only Coleman and O'Brien, but Ashley Young, Ben Godfrey, and even for one game Mason Holgate. That's bad.

Since January 2024, if my numbers are correct, Patterson has been named in the game squad 73 times for league games. He has started 6.
Eric Myles
78 Posted 24/08/2026 at 00:58:45
Stu #16 "Arguably successive managers after his first term struggled to overcome the mess he created."

Okay, I'll argue with that.

Martinez replaced Moyes and took Moyes's team, plus Lukaku, to 5th in the league with our record points total. Martinez then dismantled the defensive ethos that Moyes had built so badly that the fans hounded him out of the club.

It was Martinez that created his own mess. Successive managers have then created messes of their own, Koeman, Benitez, etc. None of them had anything to do with Moyes but the one common denominator was Chairman Bill.
Eric Myles
79 Posted 25/08/2026 at 01:49:36
John #68,

Doesn't Ben White cover both positions?
Alan J Thompson
80 Posted 25/08/2026 at 04:39:38
Eric (#79); Having just read through the last half of this thread, as soon as I saw the possibility of O'Brien going, that very thought went through my mind: the Ben White move now shown for what it is and, if allowed to go through, then not only Moyes but the whole Transfer Committee should be shown the door.

On the plus side, when Moyes finally goes, then any new manager will have to bring in his "own" players as most of Moyes's crowd will be near or past their football retirement age... albeit, an argument could be made that 37 is the benchmark.
Eric Myles
81 Posted 25/08/2026 at 06:44:16
Great minds and all that, Alan, but surely a new manager will have all this young, exciting, talent to work with that TFG have recruited for our future and won't need to bring in his "own" players.
Jeff Armstrong
82 Posted 25/08/2026 at 07:44:22
I’ve just read a comment,…so were a Branthwaite injury away from having Burnley’s centre half pairing from 10 years ago!
🥶🥶
Dave Abrahams
83 Posted 25/08/2026 at 09:21:01
Eric (78) I think Martinez added Barry, McCarthy and Del Boy as well as Lukaku to that squad and they made a great deal of difference to how we played in that first season until Martinez cocked the Crystal Palace. game at home when we lost 3-2, we might have reached the magical 4th. place in fact.

After that season Martinez failed to improve us and we got successive failures managing us and they and Kenwright wasted Moshiri’s / Usmanov’s money.
Si Cooper
84 Posted 25/08/2026 at 09:55:01
I think Moyes could easily have said something praising Hackney and Armstrong without inferring that they aren’t ‘first choice’.

It’s this out-dated idea that you should even have a ‘first choice’ team that is the whole problem. Other teams have squads and are looking for players to effectively be completely interchangeable.

Mike G, I might not have nominated Jake as the replacement but it was obvious to me that Sean Dyke was messing things up by constantly selecting the willing but age-impacted Ashley Young.

Personally, I’d be devastated to see Jake sold without being given a decent run of games in partnership with Jarrad.
Andrew Merrick
85 Posted 25/08/2026 at 10:54:22
Si, On the OS Armstrong recounts the "Hybrid role" the manager tasked him with.
He speaks well and gets on with his game, I don't know what else was said, but can only hope that the manager uses him as much as possible.
Hackney is joining what is a well manned midfield now, there will be rotation.
As regards selling Obrien, utter madness.
Derek Thomas
86 Posted 25/08/2026 at 12:09:15
We 'should' beat Preston so the actual starting 11 'should' be neither here nor there.

But Away to 'the mighty Bournemouth'?? that 11 will show -- all things being equal with injuries -- just where Moyes's mind is at.

Never mind what they say in the pressers -- watch what they do... and why.
Keith Harrison
87 Posted 25/08/2026 at 12:16:54
David West - 61 - yes I have. He was very good in both games against Forest last season, when in conjunction with Dibling, they kept 2 very good wingers in Hudson Odoi, then Omari Hutchinson quiet. We won both games and did not concede.

I haven't said he's a world beater, but he is the best we have. Playing Tarkowski in front of anybody now is borderline madness. He's too slow, and therefore dictates the way our whole defence and midfield is set up to compensate for this.

Jake needs to play in his natural position alongside Jarrad, with 2 new full backs (Myko is not up to it) and a centre forward.

Aznou plays right wing for Morocco U21s, so use him as a winger or wing back, and stop this pursuit of Grealish. A centre-forward is our top priority at the moment. Barry and Beto are both gash.

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