Doldrums

Well said, I feel the same way. Part of me wants a shiny new state of the art stadium. Another part of me doesn’t want to see Everton leave Liverpool. Another part of me wishes we could revamp Goodison Park itself. But we just don’t have any of the information to make a thoughtful, well informed decision. But we are not talking about moving next season without a home to go to. This is something that is years away. Lets all just stay a little level headed and wait and see what information is given before the vote is held, and then what the result of the vote is.

Well spoken, i feel somewhat similar. What get’s at me is the fact that all this time and effort, and no doubt resources being pumped into a move to kirby with tesco, and the rumour is that we only have 10 million to spend on players. What happens if they decide to listen to the fans and not move to kirby as a result of the ballot? Because i cannot possibly see the ballot ending in any other than a unaminous decision to stay in the City. What a waste of time and money. I am very disillusioned with Kenwright at the moment, and im not a big fan of him being on that Joseph and the technicolour whatsimijiggy show neither!

After supporting Everton since 1946, and a season ticket holder for most of that time, I believe the move is now inevitable, Whether in Kirkby or not. Everton alone can never finance a new ground, so I think the Tesco deal is the best option, although by the time that arrives, I may not be around.If you are a true Blue, you go wherever to follow the club. In Liverpool or not.

Kevin you are a very sensible guy, there is tribalism in all of us to greater or lesser extent. Just wait for the club proposal it isn’t that long now... surely?

We’re all sick of not knowing anything. BK has lost my trust in one fell swoop over this issue. I can’t work out if he is incompetent and out of his depth or manipulating for personal gain. I’d love to think he’s trying to suck LCC and other potential partners in, but I just can’t see it.

I actually think the Club are not really sure either, but what really irritates the life out of me is that they just don’t seem to want to explore any other options. Then I read about all the wholesale changes planned over the next 20 years by Peel Holdings around Central Docks and I think, ’surely Peel would jump at having a world famous football club’s stadium amongst that?’. Less than 2 miles from Goodison, still close to the RS,in the City, near or even on the River, better transport links than the Kings Dock, but a similarly attractive location.

Then I see all these people wanting to pour millions into the likes of Blackburn or Birmingham and I can’t understand why we seem unable to attract anybody with enough cash to invest in a Stadium. Sure, I know they’re all looking for the TV money and to make money, but a bigger, better stadium would make the club more revenue and hence the owner a chance of a better return. We’re the 4th most successful team in England of all time with a large, loyal fan base and a famous name and despite what some say, a decent Team. So why are we contemplating moving to where Tesco want us. Is there really nobody else out there?

Oh, I don’t know! All I do know is that I can’t even vote on it anyway, so my opinion isn’t valued and that doesn’t seem very fair after 30 odd years of support and loyalty. So we’ll just have to wait and see. Frustrating, but that really is the botom line.

well said toffee-boy its as if we cant be trusted and as Bills record is a dubious to say the least I’m voting no I think leaving the city is a mistake but that apart I find myself wondering whats Bill up to now and as he seems to want to vote on his say so as you say information from the club is scarce ,then to throw another spanner in the works the latest from KEIOC leaves a lot to be desired so Im going on my gut feeling and saying no to the move

Well said brother (he?s Shaun, I?m Kevin Eamonn? he makes his living messing about with soil, I make mine messing about with minds)

You?ll not find a better blue than our kid and when he has something to say about Everton he?s usually worth listening to. He had the misfortune to marry a fervent Kopite, so I?d not take his advice on dating but apart from that he?s got his head well and truly screwed on.

I used to be a fence sitter re Kirkby? well not any more; looking at all of the arguments I?m now firmly against.

I?ll give a full explanation of my reasons in my next column piece, but they take into account ceding geographical relevance; loss of heritage; loss of an authentic matchday experience giving up our birthright and granting them footballing anti-Christ?s from across the park the biggest victory over us they?ve ever won or ever likely to win.

As always, you can rely on my fellow blues to hit the nail spot on. I don?t care if we leave goodison despite the many memories but I don?t want to leave the city. We couldn?t afford to build a large house in Aigbuth ? let alone a stadium....

However, I think you have got BK wrong. I genuinely believe that he totally has the best interests of the club at heart and in all honesty would you rather have a Glazer, Lerner, Abramovich or even a Gillett and wanks or a real supporter? I look forward to registering my NO vote and settling in to one of the LCC ?prestige sites? in 2010!!!

As far as I am concerned, I am an Evertionian and I will support Everton everywhere they go. Everton is in our hearts ? not in a stadium. We, everyone of us, makes Everton!! Who cares what the red shite say? I don?t, I?m an Evertonian. That is where my loyalties are.

We as Evertonians can only speculate as to what is going on because of the lack of information from Goodison. The vote issue will only be to appease the fans ? the result will not matter one jot. BK & Bully have taken it upon themselves that?s what?s best for them ? not the club. Once this new stadium is built, BK will sell his stake and cease to be an Evertonian... sitting on a nice pile of wedge to boot! Regardless of who?s in charge of other clubs, football is now big business and companies operate to make a profit... don?t they?

Firstly Everton NEED a new stadium with high capacity - no arguments there.

Secondly, Kirkby is tied to the socio-economic tails of Liverpool. There are no rolling fields between the two.

Kirkby was supposed to be inside Liverpool, however the city refused in the 1950/60s. There is talk of Knowsley, an articial town that rims the city boundary to be absorbed into the city. In effect, Bootle, all Knowsley, Crosby, etc are all a part of the Liverpool socio-economic area and should be incorporated within the city. Many are advocating this.

The same argument can be applied to Birkenhead and Wallasey. Many in Wallasey see the city centre every day from their streets, live only a mile or so from it, can reach it within minutes and regard the centre as their centre, socialising and shopping there, while those in Croxteth are nowhere near the centre. Who is the Scouser?

What is all this getting at? Well Liverpool and surrounding "towns" are effectively the same place. So there is no problem at all moving to Kirkby.

It is just misguided sentiment that makes fans think that we can stay in Liverpool. It was Liverpool City Council that allowed LFC to build on an historic park. But it has at the same time refused to let EFC put houses on Bellfield. There are some unmentionable words that accurately describe Liverpool City Council. As far as I see it EFC will always play second fiddle to LFC with the City Council. The Leader is an Everton supporter so get some houses built on Bellfield so EFC can afford a new stadium.

Kirby cannot be any worse than the City Council. I think we will have to wait 'til hell freezes over to get a better deal from Liverpool City Council than what we may get in Kirby. Don?t be fooled by promises of 8 better sites. Are they viable alternatives? Do they come close in financial terms. This is decision time and if we stick our heads in the sand we may get a big pain in the backside called relegation.

I am not too sure that I follow your logic there John. Would you include Skelmersdale in your list of "same places as Liverpool"? Granted, Skelmersdale is situated in West Lancashire, but take a walk around the place and listen to the scouse accents.

I really don’t think my argument is about scousers, I dont care if a blue speaks fluent punjabi, it matter not where he comes from, but I contend that it does matter where the club is situated. We are called Everton for a reason, we currently play within earshot of this area of the city, any move away from there erodes our identity slightly. Yes we do need a better stadium, but I remain convinced that all alternative avenues have not been explored by the club, which is what is really annoying a lot of fans on here.

Shaun,
I?ve kept out of this debate. I?m no longer a season-ticket holder and have moved out of the area; however, while I think I agree with your basic premise that we should stay inside the city boundaries, surely a man as intelligent as you obviously are can see the non-sequitor in your sentence: "We are called Everton for a reason, we currently play within earshot of this area of the city, any move from there erodes our identity slightly." If this had held in the late 19th Century A) we would not have been called Everton and B) we would never have gone to Anfield Road or Goodison Park.

Kirkby, unless the geography and demography has changed markedly since I left Liverpool, is certainly "within earshot" of our city and most Kirkby inhabitants would proudly call themselves scousers and I would be proud to accept them as such. That does not mean that I think we should voluntarily move beyond the city boundaries, but that I believe that Tony Marsh was right when he suggested that Bill Kenwright blew our big opportunity when he failed to push for the King?s Dock option.

Kirkby, like Bootle or Huyton, is for me part of the Liverpool psyche. But I would prefer Walton Hall Park or even Newsham Park which is fundamentally nearer to Everton.

The main problem we have as a club is we don't have a pot to pee into. We need a new stadium; imagine the Old Lady in a few years time under the shadow of a nice new Liverpool stadium (why did LCC never give this prime site to us? Ever feel you're not wanted? We?ve been looking for a new home for over a decade; they decide they want to move and all of a sudden, a prime spot becomes avialable)

Will anyone out there stop supporting and watching Everton just because we're outside city boundries? If so, who will you go and watch? Certainly not Liverpool... Tranmere perhaps?

And Rick, you are right: BK did blow our big opportunity with Kings Dock, but again it comes down to money we ain't got, as our tranfer activity this summer shows...

I am an Evertonian... No matter where we move,no matter who we buy or sell, I will never stop being one. It's fine to be concerned about our future plans with regards to the stadium, it's location, and new signings... but let's not let it bog us down. Let's look forward with a positive attitude and hope for the best.

I can’t believe how critical some Evertonians are of Bill Kenwright, I genuinely can’t see that we could expect of him. The only fault that I can see is that he, like all the rest of us, could do a lot more for the club if he had an extra couple of hundred million lying around. Like the rest of us would in his position, he is doing the best he can and would leave it to someone with more money if they existed.
I am not in favour of the move to Kirkby and it still frustrates me that the Kings Dock didn’t go ahead and that the council told us there was no way we could build on Stanley Park etc. However the progress in the quality of the team, the relative league success and the improvement in club ethic during the past few years compared with the previous 15 has been a phenomenal achievement considering the lack of money and I think BK deserves a large part of the credit for that.

My thinking on this is simple. I don’t want to leave GP but I understand why it may be necessary.
Therefore, when I am given my vote, I will decide on the information that is presented at the time.
However, there are a couple of major problems with that.
1. I don’t trust BK or the board as their track record over the Kings Dock, and their continued and prolonged policy of failing to communicate with the fans, speaks for itself.
2. Also lets be honest, EFC as a business, from top to bottom, are a joke! Cup tickets, merchandising, and the services available at half-time. Need I say more? This is all down to BK and the board, no-one else.
To get a yes vote out of me Bill, you had better show that what you want us to move to is indeed best for the club and us, the supporters. If you try to present ’Its this or nothing’ I will vote for staying

John Burns......(The famous?)
I agree John, Kirkby people are as Scouse as Scottie roaders. (In fact, most of them are the children/grandchildren of this most scouse tribe.) However, it doesn?t change the fact that this is a peripheral site which by definition can only ever be poorly fed by the main conurbation in comparison to inner core areas, especially in a city layout such as ours.

The fact cannot be changed that, for matches at an edge-of-city site, the vast majority will be travelling to and from in the same direction. Therefore whatever congestion you get now you can multiply that. This is a logistical and demographic constant, no amount of money can alter the city?s transport focal point for a fortnightly event venue.

The deregulated bus network operates almost at capacity at normal match times, so the required numbers of additional buses, and more importantly drivers (and these would number in the hundreds by the way) probably do not exist. In terms of trains, Sandhills receives 50 trains per hour, Kirkby only 5, is there any real comparison? Can there ever be? Of course not!

Kirkby will always be significantly more inconvenient to get to than Walton for the vast Majority of regular match-going Evertonians (BTW I live in South Liverpool not Walton, and would argue the same point about Speke which I could get to in minutes). If you stop to do further analysis regarding the lack of direct bus services serving Kirkby from all different areas of Greater Liverpool the unsuitability is glaring, and this in the city with one of the lowest car ownerships in the country.

On the car front, there is literally only a handful of lanes to cope with this, these for the most part are already operating at or near saturation. The old chestnut regarding the motorway is almost a complete irrelavence when analysed... and if anything creates more problems than solutions in that it represents a large physical barrier for people movement from Liverpool to Kirkby.

Only a handfull of lanes pierce this barrier from the Liverpool side ? two of which are on the already busy East Lancs corridor. This therefore will necessitate large infrastructure changes which certainly don?t appear on the initial scheme that?s been released and would probably cost more than the stadium itself.

Bolton is a prime example of reliance on a motorway and edge of catchment site... it too seems to tick the boxes. It?s a nightmare to get away from. Therefore regardless of Kirkby?s scouse connections..... the logistics really don?t add up.

We live in an age of convenience, most games are live in pubs anyway. Why would we expect more fans to endure this increased inconvenience? That's before you even look at those priceless assets regarding identity/history/tradition. Unfortunately, we can?t easily put a value on them, it's the kind of thing many will not miss until it?s gone, and then it will be glaring, and too late!

The out-of-town option was tried in the US in the 50s-70s. That process has been reversed. They are knocking massive stadia down to shoe-horn them into downtown sites to get full advantage of mass-transit transport networks and hubs. The whole process has sparked the biggest stadium building programme in the US for over 80 years... yet we?re being sold the out-of-town utopia? What next, knock down the Empire theatre to put it on Switch Island because the motorway?s there? Or Everton to move to Warrington to take full advantage of major motorway confluence and latent support in Lancs and Cheshire which must number tens of thousands, and it's only 20 miles or so?

These farcical hypotheses bear more relevance to the Kirkby option than modern stadium planning theory. Stay close to your core support..... and in the face of the competition!

Stick to talking about the Docks, John ? it?s more your thing!!;)

If Everton can?t afford a new stadium on thier own could they not take the initiative and invite companies to buy into a new complex. Instead of Tesco?s offering Everton a ground in their new complex could we not ask participants to commit to a new shopping plaza that may surround our ground, after all isn?t that what the illegitimate one, with the aid of Liverpool Council, is doing? Or is it Everton/Kenwright that is pushing the barrow for Kirkby? I know, a suitable site still needs to be found but we are being kept in the dark and waiting until after any vote before stating our preferences is waiting until after the funeral to see the Doctor. I?d be a lot happier knowing that their are no plans for a "Kenwright Street End" but on the positive side, I believe the car minding businesses in Kirkby are run a lot more efficiently....

Didn’t know, we ever had a vote for moving to the King’ds Dock.

I am a long-exiled Scouser, brought up off Scotland Road just off Athol Street. I am also a (mostly)long-suffering Everton supporter since my first game in 1948, those innocent and vanished times. I have been getting to matches on-and-off over the years but have had a season ticket for the last three. In the autumn I shall be moving back to Merseyside to live and am looking forward, among other things, to getting to the games on a regular basis. I shall also be voting against the proposed move to Kirkby and would even have voted against any move for Everton to take over Stanley Park, threatening yet another of the few benefits which the money-grabbing Victorian merchants gave to Liverpool’s toiling poor.
Some supporters to your web have raised again the possibility of a docklands site and the potential interest of Peel Ports, a company with ambitious regeneration plans and good PR for the dock sites on both sides of the river, including its dream of a ’Manhattan on the Mersey’ at Birkenhead.
I have just completed a book on the history of Liverpool’s waterfront, involving frequent research visits along the Dock Road. It does seem to me that the semi-derelict historic sites in and around Sanley and Clarence Docks, could be a major focus for heritage-style regeneration to include a football stadium - a lesser version of the plans for the Olympics and London’s East End.The time may also be right.
The now fast approaching year of culture is a once-for-all window of opportunity for at least an ambitious outline proposal bringing in Peel Ports, the Council and other potential backers. That could include a major block of shares for supporters. Such a block could never be controlling but important symbolically.
Incidentally, is the planned vote for season ticket holders (wrongly excluding others unable to afford season ticket prices) a vote which will decide the outcome or is it just part of the ’consultative process’?

I absolutely agree.. having the image of Everton getting owned by Tesco to build a stadium outside of Liverpool is too horrible to think about... I do agree that we need to build a new stadium though.. just not one that?s outside of Liverpool and funded by Tesco please!! Anybody else have the same opinion?

Always know there is problems in the transfer market when we keep hearing the same old stadium debate still being dragged up which has gone on for ten years now.. Surely transfer wise we have to hear something over the next two weeks of a signing being made, not just one but three or four. Has Moyes and Kenwright forgot that we are going to be playing every midweek for about the first three months of the UEFA cup?. The squads hardly big and since last August Kilbane and Davies have left and Fernandes been and gone..Three midfielders out and not one in..Thats the position we should be looking to fill not being bullied by Preston into signing Nugent ( who is never a £7 million player) when we could get him for £2 mill in January if he holds out..

now that we have another (albeit two game) run in the uefa cup this autumn. i am looking forward to being beaten by asylum seekers from albania or whatever, why dont we go out and by some new players. firstly, bring back peter beagrie as he is still as the pinnacle of his game. and and of course we can get back nick barmby from hull i think. also sheringham is avaliable now for around 4 million. what a super forward line that would be with johnson, and ronaldinho who we can get from barcelona in a swap deal with james beattie! .also i heard peter beardsley is thinking of coming out of retirement so we can play him for the last five minutes of that league cup game where we are losing 1-0 to scarborough or carlisle. lastly why not sell vaughan and anichebe and bring in some real quality players like ade akinbiyi or andrew cole. also as for the staduim debate you are more than welcome to come and ground share over at here with us at carrow road. i know its a long way for you to go but i travel from kings lynn every day and i am not complaining. go everton!

I honestly think that if the dark side can have their ground on Stanley Park, why can?t we? With tesco building their shop underneath... No, I suppose that would be too ideal. There has got to be enough room on there for two grounds.

I think that your criticisms of Bill Kenwright are both crass and stupid. You have the nerve to compare Johnson to Kenwright, how insulting can you get ? Our previous chairman never had the interests of Everton at heart , but he had us all fooled in 93/94 when he took over. He had more financial clout than Kenwright so we were all happy and taken in by the promises e.g. money for team building.
Perhaps we should have realised that things weren’t what they seemed with the way in which the sigining of Nigel Martyn was handled in the summer of ’96. I should say " non signing", certainly the alarms bells should have been well and truly going off with the departure of Joe Royle and how he was treated by the chairman.
Lets move on Mr J’s treatment of Howard Kendall was bad enough, but he really excelled himself in 1998-99 season - at first backing the new manager Walter Smith or at least appearing to do so - then of course the sale of Duncan Ferguson.Probabaly one of the most underhand actions by a football club chairman in the history of the game.
You compare Kenwright to Mr J - I am totally gobsmacked. Kenwright is first and foremost an Evertonian, he has the best interests of our club at heart.It’s about time people like you grew up and got real.I would rather have someone in charge who is a supporter rather than someone who is there just to make a few million.You probably reckon that Abramovic used to wear a Chelsea shirt as kid with "Osgoood" on the back and that the Icelandic bloke at West Ham tuned into the world service to listen to how his beloved Hammers were doing.
Kenwright is far from perfect, he doesn’t always get it right but at least he is a genuine supporter of the club. The fact that you play that down shows your ignorance.
Perhaps you would like that bloke from Thailand who is trying to buy Man City to change his mind and take control of Everton.After all he was only pictured a couple of years ago welcoming Sir Alex to Thailand waiving a Man Utd shirt with his name on the back !! But that wouldn’t matter to you would it - as long as he’s got the money that all that counts. Well were taken in by PJ and as Roger Daltry would put it " We Don’t Get Fooled Again"

just wondering where mr canary is. maybe overdone it on the cider or sitting outside the cathedral feeding the pigeons listening to the wurzels greatest hits. anyway lets get things in perspective. as much as goodison is a great stadium and has been venue to some great and nail biting games for over a century now it is time to move to pastures new. a lick of paint and some fairy lights will not save the old lady. to state the obvious a ground share with the crap on the other side of stanley park is out of the question. it looks like in time we will relocate to kirkby or somewhere in the vicinity. i look forward to seeing what the relevant people can put together. at least we are moving in the right direction.

Michael Brien,

As my article clearly states, the comparison between the respective chairmen was made to illustrate, that the soundbites coming out from the club have changed very little over the last 20 years, irrespective of who the chairman is. I fully acknowledge that Bill Kenwright does care about this club as opposed to Peter Johnston, however, caring about a club does not necessarily equate to being able to run it in a manner that will give us a chance of becoming successful both on and off the pitch.

You state that I probably reckon that Abramovic used to wear a Chelsea shirt as kid, and you accuse me of being ignorant, stupid, and crass and that I should grow up. Really..? You have no basis whatsoever in making this assumption. I am simply trying to state my opinion in a rational manner, if you don?t agree with it then that is fine. I have no problems in reading your point of view and I am delighted to read so many diverse opinions on here. But let?s try and keep the debate on an adult level eh.