FAN ARTICLES
Blame LCC not EFC
By Steve Guy : 18/07/2007 : 
Comments (41) :
I for one am grateful that the saga of the new stadium is coming to a conclusion. I?m grateful because it has gone on too long and it has been obvious to all concerned that the Kirkby proposal was the only choice available, without continuing to damage the long term financial future of the Club. That it is the only choice is not the fault of Everton FC, but of Liverpool City Council.
Comments (41) : If Liverpool City Council had wanted a different scenario then I cannot believe this could not have been pursued prior to (and even in parallel) to the discussions being held with Knowsley. The exclusivity period is a red herring. We have all known since the King?s Dock project collapsed that Everton needed and wanted a new stadium. LCC could have been lobbying hard to engage Everton in looking at alternatives, but they did not. It is one of LCC?s prime duties to the City to keep business in the City and help that business grow; whether through arrogance or apathy they have done neither with Everton.
After the stable door was opened and the exclusivity discussions started with Knowsley, empty posturing was all that LCC offered; when they should have been providing serious, well thought out, funded alternatives. Liverpool will be City of Culture next year and the town is flooded with money (just look at the crane filled skyline), so don?t tell me this could not have been managed much better by LCC.
Instead LCC have managed to deflect much of the criticism which should have been levied at them onto both the Everton Board and Knowsley Councillors. LCC?s attitude over the last ten years towards Everton and the ground move has consistently smacked of the pursuit of personal, short term political agendas with no view as to the bigger picture of what the Club moving out of the City would actually mean. Why was this never a major issue at election times (both local and national)?
It is unfair to continually heap blame onto the Everton Board for getting into serious dialogue with a Council who actually seem to want Everton around and who are putting their money where their mouth is. LCC have caved in to the demands from across the Park at every turn and in so doing have limited the options subsequently available to Everton FC. Not only did Liverpool FC flatly refuse to consider a ground share (which LCC capitulated on too easily), they have subsequently insisted on also laying waste to one of the oldest parks in the City (if not the country) and LCC fell over themselves to comply. Compare this to their approach to all things Everton and you will hopefully see why I genuinely believe that the situation we now find ourselves in has as much to do with the LCC?s lack of enthusiasm as it does to anything the Everton Board can be accused of.
It is also a bit rich for individuals to start second-guessing how the vote might actually be structured. The only things we know are a) that the Everton Board is recommending a move to Kirkby b) that they won?t necessarily be bound by the vote?s result c) the vote will be monitored by an independent body and d) that somewhere between 30 and 40 thousand regular season ticket holders will get to take part in the vote. The reaction to these bald facts from TW contributors make the conspiracy theories of the X-Files seem tame. The plain fact is, vote against the move in enough numbers and it will make very difficult for the Board to ignore the outcome; I honestly believe (naively the conspiracists will say) that an 80% plus vote against the move would make it very difficult for the Board to carry on without a serious re-think. It might even wake LCC up to the opportunity to present alternatives (but for the reasons mentioned above, don?t hold your breath).
Finally, don?t moan that it?s limited to season ticket holders, at least these people have made a financial investment of sorts in the Club. We all have an emotional investment, but please offer an alternative practical set of criteria by which the voting pool could be defined if you don?t like the one the Club has come up with. By the way, if you never go to the ground (?it?s too far?, ?I can?t afford it?, ?I live abroad now?), why should it bother you where the team actually play as you will be watching the game from the settee anyway ?
I imagine by September the fate of the Club will have been decided and I will be surprised if there is enough of a ?no? vote to put off a decision to move to Kirkby. A more positive discussion should ensue, starting now, about what the stadium will look like and will it be a fitting venue for one of the oldest and greatest Clubs in England. Our energies and angst would be better utilised in lobbying for things we might still be able to influence rather than things which increasingly we cannot.
Reader Comments (41)
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Toffee Chrisp
2 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:19:10
2 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:19:10
Too right Gladys. This club has been mismanaged since the late 1980s and its never down to the club’s management. The continual harping on about LFC and how LCC fall over themselves to accomodate them. Why should we groundshare with them? Why should they groundshare with us?
Instead of complaining that no-one ever does anything to help us, the club should have moved heaven and earth to make sure we stay within the city limits. They dont have the stomach for the fight - the redscum do whether we like it or not. For years we have been moaning and bitching instead of moving forward. In 1985 we were streets ahead of Manure, their stadium and facilities were a complete mess. Look were they are now. Big Red Nose didnt stand back and bitch about it he got stuck in!
We have a MKDons scenario in front of us, 4 miles from the city of 400 miles, we will still be out of town in a shopping centre.
Kirkby Town Toffees FC? Dont laugh it could happen
Instead of complaining that no-one ever does anything to help us, the club should have moved heaven and earth to make sure we stay within the city limits. They dont have the stomach for the fight - the redscum do whether we like it or not. For years we have been moaning and bitching instead of moving forward. In 1985 we were streets ahead of Manure, their stadium and facilities were a complete mess. Look were they are now. Big Red Nose didnt stand back and bitch about it he got stuck in!
We have a MKDons scenario in front of us, 4 miles from the city of 400 miles, we will still be out of town in a shopping centre.
Kirkby Town Toffees FC? Dont laugh it could happen
Jeff
3 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:37:31
3 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:37:31
I am sorry but what a load of nonsense. Who fault was it that the kings dock felt thru - whose fault was it we spend money on players based on the NTL sponsorship - whose fault was it that the fortress funds money didnt turn up - yes that’s right it was LFC and LCC. No wake up its the board. Kenwright been in charge since all the above fiasco’s have occurred, there is no money coming into the club and the only way we will get a new stadium is 1. We get someone rich to come in aka LFC, that not going to happen while the current board are in place.2. The current deal. could get a new stadium is based on the current proposals put forward by the Tesco group. We cannot afford to redevelop goodison as we dont have the money - hence the board pushing the current deal. Look at the facts not point blame at the LCC
J Annderson
4 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:41:05
4 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:41:05
Its not four miles from the city,lts a quarter of a mile,MK Dons scenario my arse, the reason we can;t stay in the city is because we have’nt got a pot to plss in ,please if your gonna make an argument against the move give us some decent points, not shite like this.
Brian Ormond
5 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:52:18
5 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:52:18
Very good article. All money and politics, isn’t it? LCC stands behind LFC and class EFC as 2nd best. The move to Kirby will start a new era for the blues and as a fan for 60years say "Good luck and God bless you Toffees"
Armand
6 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:42:21
6 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:42:21
You are absolutely right, Steve! The fact is EFC have been in discussions with LCC for several years since the Kings Dock fiasco, but as mr Bradley said on tuesday LCC are just not willing to give away suitable land for EFC to build on for free. I have heard they want as much as £20-£30m for it, and that’s a disgrace in my eyes. When Knowsley then come up with a site for free, and Tesco are willing to invest as much as £50m I think the board have actually done a pretty good job in this case. The bottom line is; if we stay at Goodison for the next 10 years there is no way we can increase our turnover (and we are all frustrated that Moyes can’t compete with the likes of Wigan and Fulham in the transfermarket with todays budget) and how long can we keep Arteta, AJ, Cahill etc if we are not keeping up with the top 4 (or at least close to the top 4)? I say: Let us all have a close look at the Kirkby drawings when they come out, and then we can make up our minds!
Tony Manley
7 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:06:59
7 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:06:59
i love this club more than anything and it makes my happier and sadder too, mind you then anything.
the back lash and ribing from them lot across the park will never end never mind what success we get.
y do liverpool get planing permission a stones throws away and we have too move away.
liverpool have been given the capital of culture, but this fantastic club is as much history as liverpool f.c and is as much as a symbol for liverpool as lfc and the city would not be the same with out the two.so i beg with all my heart keep us in the city not just for me but from the scouse
children growing up as will start surrporting liverpool.
everton your in my heart your in my soul dont take that away from future generations where more scouse then liverpool dont do this.
the back lash and ribing from them lot across the park will never end never mind what success we get.
y do liverpool get planing permission a stones throws away and we have too move away.
liverpool have been given the capital of culture, but this fantastic club is as much history as liverpool f.c and is as much as a symbol for liverpool as lfc and the city would not be the same with out the two.so i beg with all my heart keep us in the city not just for me but from the scouse
children growing up as will start surrporting liverpool.
everton your in my heart your in my soul dont take that away from future generations where more scouse then liverpool dont do this.
John Dring
8 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:55:35
8 Posted 18/07/2007 at 21:55:35
J.P.M. but you?re a short sighted as the LCC. I agree with you as far as now is concerned, but let?s say 20 years down the line! Why shouldn?t the LCC look as far as that? Maybe, with their help, we could be a thriving successful business with European football every season, in a larger stadium within their domain, and increasing tourism for the City. The club is going in the right direction since Kenwright took over, and I believe the clubs debt has been reduced. So it?s slightly harsh criticism to say mis-managed. 35,000 people watch this business every other week, with potential of football in the world the LCC should of done their all to keep Everton happy and in their city. Hopefully knowsley council are looking as far advanced as that, and that can only be good for Everton.
Armand
9 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:20:37
9 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:20:37
Well Knowsley and LCC are clearly in two different situations here. Knowsley need something like tesco and EFC. Liverpool obviously don’t. I am just saying that we should look very closely at this proposal, because I don’t think they get much better when you don’t have the Ambramoviches around.
Cormac Murphy
10 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:32:56
10 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:32:56
I am glad you mentioned Stanley Park. What right did the LCC have to give away a public park to a football club? Where were the Greens? Why no protests from enviromentalists? Are they also Liverpool FC supporters like most of the LCC? This is civil and social theft of one of our great city parks - and immediate protests should be started to save the Park - and let Liverpool FC go to Kirby!
John Dring
11 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:35:16
11 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:35:16
Isnt Goodison park in Kirkdale and not Everton anyway ? I can run 4 miles in 34 mins on a treadmill ! so not really that far is it ? Come on you blues !
DEWEY
12 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:35:29
12 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:35:29
Good article, but only half the story. We are in this possition because of lcc, because of mistakes made by the board (current and past).
The facts are we are getting £50 from tesco to build a stadium. We are getting land for free that would cost us £20-£30m????
Now as I don’t particularly want to leave the City and I don’t have £70m lying round in my sky rocket I have come to terms with the move.
The argument of letting the RS have the city. They Fookin well will if in ten years we are still in a stadium thats falling to pieces and in no possition to compete!!!!
People say history is priceless but here is a clear indication that the price of our history is £80m! Which is cheap if you ask me cause the die hard keioc vote will cost us our future!!!!!!!
The facts are we are getting £50 from tesco to build a stadium. We are getting land for free that would cost us £20-£30m????
Now as I don’t particularly want to leave the City and I don’t have £70m lying round in my sky rocket I have come to terms with the move.
The argument of letting the RS have the city. They Fookin well will if in ten years we are still in a stadium thats falling to pieces and in no possition to compete!!!!
People say history is priceless but here is a clear indication that the price of our history is £80m! Which is cheap if you ask me cause the die hard keioc vote will cost us our future!!!!!!!
Susan Hunter
13 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:47:18
13 Posted 18/07/2007 at 22:47:18
To have no plan B is either bad management or scare mongering, by the board/directors.
Either way I for one am losing all respect for the board/directors.
They should remember the club is bigger than 1 person, even if he?s a director.
I understand they have helped steadied the ship but unfortunately I don?t think they are capable of taking the club further. I don?t think we need to move, we need to be sold to someone who will put some money in. So we can move to the next stage... and then build a new ground...
Personally I think we?ll still be scraping the barrel for players even with a new ground in Kirkby!
Why? What?s happening now-with the money...
Either way I for one am losing all respect for the board/directors.
They should remember the club is bigger than 1 person, even if he?s a director.
I understand they have helped steadied the ship but unfortunately I don?t think they are capable of taking the club further. I don?t think we need to move, we need to be sold to someone who will put some money in. So we can move to the next stage... and then build a new ground...
Personally I think we?ll still be scraping the barrel for players even with a new ground in Kirkby!
Why? What?s happening now-with the money...
Armand
14 Posted 18/07/2007 at 23:14:05
14 Posted 18/07/2007 at 23:14:05
If you know your history, John, Everton wanted to build a new ground in the very same park just a few years ago, but we were not allowed to, because LCC did’t want a football stadium there... Coincidence?
John Charles
15 Posted 19/07/2007 at 00:00:43
15 Posted 19/07/2007 at 00:00:43
Warren Bradley - Daily Post, Two Days ago:
"
"What I?m not prepared to do is put a huge piece of land up and cost Liverpool council taxpayers £50m. That?s not the way forward"
I am sorry to beat the same old drum. But Does LCC seriously believe Everton arent worth 50m to keep in the area?
We would stay in new stadium for what? at least, very bare minimum 50 years? Thats 1m per year... so Everton as a whole are not worth 1m per year or 83 grand a month to the Liverpool City Economy?? 83 grand a month?? Surely...
"
"What I?m not prepared to do is put a huge piece of land up and cost Liverpool council taxpayers £50m. That?s not the way forward"
I am sorry to beat the same old drum. But Does LCC seriously believe Everton arent worth 50m to keep in the area?
We would stay in new stadium for what? at least, very bare minimum 50 years? Thats 1m per year... so Everton as a whole are not worth 1m per year or 83 grand a month to the Liverpool City Economy?? 83 grand a month?? Surely...
blue fanatic
16 Posted 19/07/2007 at 00:13:25
16 Posted 19/07/2007 at 00:13:25
Erm, i got to say im a bit shocked by it all. I thought it was a certin that the vote would out any notions of moving.
I was brought up right 5 minutes from goodison, you could hear the corwd roar in my front living room when i goal went.
I think its a real shame that we did’nt stay local to Walton, Kirkdale and surronding areas and develop the area for the benefit of all.
Kirby is not to far away from where i live but far enough for me to know that the local business’s and area will suffer.
Moving is a sicking feeling but as we all know, we have heard talks of new stadiums and moving for many years and will hear it again before we finally move.
Sorry to give a simple answer to the problem but Walton Park is massive and could eas fit a new stadium easy.
Im blue to the heart and will support (we as a club) any action they take, even moving to kirby if i can be convinced that it is the best option available and the right reasons.
I was brought up right 5 minutes from goodison, you could hear the corwd roar in my front living room when i goal went.
I think its a real shame that we did’nt stay local to Walton, Kirkdale and surronding areas and develop the area for the benefit of all.
Kirby is not to far away from where i live but far enough for me to know that the local business’s and area will suffer.
Moving is a sicking feeling but as we all know, we have heard talks of new stadiums and moving for many years and will hear it again before we finally move.
Sorry to give a simple answer to the problem but Walton Park is massive and could eas fit a new stadium easy.
Im blue to the heart and will support (we as a club) any action they take, even moving to kirby if i can be convinced that it is the best option available and the right reasons.
Gavin Shagwell
17 Posted 19/07/2007 at 01:21:29
17 Posted 19/07/2007 at 01:21:29
Hi Guys, I think that both LCC and the board share the blame for this. The issue now is how to move forward not not fall further behind the red shite.
It is plain and simple, we will have to move to compete. This internal bickering and finger pointing should stop or we will rot.
To get a new staduim without Tesco?s help would mean that we will have to sell our souls to some billionaire (If we can even find one). So this leaves us between a rock and a hard place. Personally, I think that the move to Kirby is the most sensible thing to do in order for us to progress.
COYB!!!!
It is plain and simple, we will have to move to compete. This internal bickering and finger pointing should stop or we will rot.
To get a new staduim without Tesco?s help would mean that we will have to sell our souls to some billionaire (If we can even find one). So this leaves us between a rock and a hard place. Personally, I think that the move to Kirby is the most sensible thing to do in order for us to progress.
COYB!!!!
pragmatic resident
18 Posted 19/07/2007 at 02:29:43
18 Posted 19/07/2007 at 02:29:43
With all due respect, Everton are a commercial business and are in football to make money. I get the feeling that Everton wants everything paid for by others and handed to them on a plate.
If a non footballing business wanted to trade in the city of Liverpool, would we expect the council to hand them the land for free and for another commercial enterprise to pay a substantial amount of the costs for them?
Everton has no divine right to be in the city. Yes, it would be ’nice’ if they remained here, but why should we all pay for the land that they expect to use? I wonder if others, elsewhere, have realised that it will be coming out of their pockets.
Everton is a business not a charity. Surely it should be expected to stand on its own feet? Other teams have to go out and find the money, why shouldn’t Everton?
Before anyone starts, I watch both Everton and Liverpool whenever I can and have no particular allegiance to either. I just think that extra money should be placed on ticket prices to pay for the land not my council taxes and so forth.
The blame for this situation rests with Everton. If they want to progress through handouts then good for them, but I think the city of Liverpool has other priorities such as increased social housing, better resources for the community and such.
If a non footballing business wanted to trade in the city of Liverpool, would we expect the council to hand them the land for free and for another commercial enterprise to pay a substantial amount of the costs for them?
Everton has no divine right to be in the city. Yes, it would be ’nice’ if they remained here, but why should we all pay for the land that they expect to use? I wonder if others, elsewhere, have realised that it will be coming out of their pockets.
Everton is a business not a charity. Surely it should be expected to stand on its own feet? Other teams have to go out and find the money, why shouldn’t Everton?
Before anyone starts, I watch both Everton and Liverpool whenever I can and have no particular allegiance to either. I just think that extra money should be placed on ticket prices to pay for the land not my council taxes and so forth.
The blame for this situation rests with Everton. If they want to progress through handouts then good for them, but I think the city of Liverpool has other priorities such as increased social housing, better resources for the community and such.
Kev
20 Posted 19/07/2007 at 06:43:02
20 Posted 19/07/2007 at 06:43:02
I live on the wirral so travelling 8 miles instead of 3 is not really an issue. But what is an issue is moving a well known, established, massive football team. We should remember we are a founder member of the football league, have been in the top flight for longer than anyone (except the Arse I believe), that we are a club that has more history than a lot of the other clubs in the league put together and we did it all from our Liverpool home(s).
As I mentioned I am from the Wirral, so the liverpool boundaries are a bit of a mystery, but I know enough to realise that Kirkby is not in the centre of Liverpool. Personally if it was my decision, I would knock down St John’s precinct and build a new Goodison there. Tesco could move over the road and everyone would be happy. But that isn’t going to happen.
Surely there must be someone who knows of a great big piece of land in Liverpool that is a bit derelict, and in need of a new footy stadium (and superhypermarket).
Isn’t there a big space where Marconi used to be?
I agree that the club has stablised under Kenwright & Wyness after that a*se Peter Johnson messed with it, but is BlueBill the right man to take a business/football club forward? His heart is in the right place, that is in no doubt, and I would always want him on the board, but I just think that we need a good business & footballing man to move the club forward.
A billionaire wouldn’t go a miss either.
This is not Bills fault, nor Keiths and I think they are doing the best they can in a bad situation.
As I mentioned I am from the Wirral, so the liverpool boundaries are a bit of a mystery, but I know enough to realise that Kirkby is not in the centre of Liverpool. Personally if it was my decision, I would knock down St John’s precinct and build a new Goodison there. Tesco could move over the road and everyone would be happy. But that isn’t going to happen.
Surely there must be someone who knows of a great big piece of land in Liverpool that is a bit derelict, and in need of a new footy stadium (and superhypermarket).
Isn’t there a big space where Marconi used to be?
I agree that the club has stablised under Kenwright & Wyness after that a*se Peter Johnson messed with it, but is BlueBill the right man to take a business/football club forward? His heart is in the right place, that is in no doubt, and I would always want him on the board, but I just think that we need a good business & footballing man to move the club forward.
A billionaire wouldn’t go a miss either.
This is not Bills fault, nor Keiths and I think they are doing the best they can in a bad situation.
D Scott
21 Posted 19/07/2007 at 09:09:59
21 Posted 19/07/2007 at 09:09:59
The board have found:
- A free site (worth anything from £50m upwards inside the city)
- £50m of investment
- Plus approx. £50m will be generated from selling the land upon which Goodison stands. (this could not be generated if we stay)
That totals probably more than £150m that is generated just by moving. £150m that is not available inside the city, otherwise they would be recommending that. £150m that does not affect team spend.
Are the board not just pushing us towards the only real option we have?
Long term a modern, larger ground will make us more attractive to investors. Is the state of Goodison and the need to redevelop not something that has deterred investors?
My head is now ruling my heart on this one - business and finance has to come first or our club faces the danger of rotting and falling behind our nouveau rich competitors.
- A free site (worth anything from £50m upwards inside the city)
- £50m of investment
- Plus approx. £50m will be generated from selling the land upon which Goodison stands. (this could not be generated if we stay)
That totals probably more than £150m that is generated just by moving. £150m that is not available inside the city, otherwise they would be recommending that. £150m that does not affect team spend.
Are the board not just pushing us towards the only real option we have?
Long term a modern, larger ground will make us more attractive to investors. Is the state of Goodison and the need to redevelop not something that has deterred investors?
My head is now ruling my heart on this one - business and finance has to come first or our club faces the danger of rotting and falling behind our nouveau rich competitors.
J
22 Posted 19/07/2007 at 10:04:38
22 Posted 19/07/2007 at 10:04:38
To pragmatic resident,
Everton is not a business to the fans and citizens of Liverpool. It is a great cultural pursuit. LCC is morally obligated to invest and promote that which brings joy and creates passion and fellow-feeling in the city. To lose Everton will weaken the city of Liverpool.
Everton is not a business to the fans and citizens of Liverpool. It is a great cultural pursuit. LCC is morally obligated to invest and promote that which brings joy and creates passion and fellow-feeling in the city. To lose Everton will weaken the city of Liverpool.
Joey
23 Posted 19/07/2007 at 11:19:30
23 Posted 19/07/2007 at 11:19:30
To be blunt the article would be correct if Eveton FC had not put AN EXCLUSIVE PACKAGE AROUND THE KIRKBY DEAL.This is keeping any plan B completely ruled out. LCC have made that clear & can only propose sites only if the KIKBY deal fails. On the otherhand when we lost the Kings dock why did they not offer us the land for free which they have offered LFC???? It all seems a little too late by LCC but at the moment they are powerless & EFC are to blkame for that! If its a resounding NO to KIKBY LCC want to put the money where their mouths are as talk is cheap & where were they years ago!!!!!
Steve Guy
24 Posted 19/07/2007 at 12:02:45
24 Posted 19/07/2007 at 12:02:45
Mr Annderson, why do you assume that I am against a move based on my article ? I am not against a move. What I am angry about is the spin from LCC which I think too many people have fallen for. Their lack of willingness and activity in supporting the retention of EFC in the City is the reason why the only plan available is the move out to Kirkby.
Joey, the exclusivity arrangement prevents EFC from talking to other Councils and parties, it does not stop LCC from producing credible, costed alternatives and having them ready for when the exclusivity period ends. They are not "powerless", just pitiful.
You have only to look at the article on the Echo website today to understand my point. Two councillors refusing to agree and taking cheap political shots at each other using our Club as the bullets. They are pathetic and are to blame for the current situation through muddle headed thinking and lacking the vision to rise above their petty squabbling.
Joey, the exclusivity arrangement prevents EFC from talking to other Councils and parties, it does not stop LCC from producing credible, costed alternatives and having them ready for when the exclusivity period ends. They are not "powerless", just pitiful.
You have only to look at the article on the Echo website today to understand my point. Two councillors refusing to agree and taking cheap political shots at each other using our Club as the bullets. They are pathetic and are to blame for the current situation through muddle headed thinking and lacking the vision to rise above their petty squabbling.
Toffee Chrisp
25 Posted 19/07/2007 at 12:54:33
25 Posted 19/07/2007 at 12:54:33
Mr Annderson,
I think you’ll find that Kirkby is certainly more than 1/4 of a mile from Goodison Park!! If you can get to Kirkby from Goodison in the time it takes to travel 1/4 of a mile, can I have a seat on your jet powered rocket??
And you think the MK Dons scenario is bullsh1t?? I bet 20 years ago people didnt think EFC would move out of its natural home WITHIN the city limits?
To paraphrase: "Leave Goodison? My Arse..."
If your gonna try and be a clever dick, get the clever bit right first!
I think you’ll find that Kirkby is certainly more than 1/4 of a mile from Goodison Park!! If you can get to Kirkby from Goodison in the time it takes to travel 1/4 of a mile, can I have a seat on your jet powered rocket??
And you think the MK Dons scenario is bullsh1t?? I bet 20 years ago people didnt think EFC would move out of its natural home WITHIN the city limits?
To paraphrase: "Leave Goodison? My Arse..."
If your gonna try and be a clever dick, get the clever bit right first!
Dylan
26 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:12:38
26 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:12:38
Why do people put so much into a line, only seen on a city map? Where were the city lines drawn when Everton moved to Goodison Park, I ask you?
Joey
27 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:51:42
27 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:51:42
You do realise that we could stay in the Liverpool boundry on a site offerd by the LCC {Speke} & move further away than 4 miles! I am not concerned about boundries I am concerned in the way it is being bulldozed through with no plan B. If we get a NO vote its time for Doug Ellis urm I mean Mr Kenwright to resign along with a £450 000 Bully Beef Wyness. LCC have let us down but those two are instrumental in not giving us a plan B we need investment & they ignore it. Are you telling me no one wants to buy EFC? Well you can’t because Mr Kenright wont let go of his toy train set!! He will become the new Doug Ellis & look how Aston Villa suffered!!!!
stuart
28 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:48:50
28 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:48:50
Dylan, absolutely spot on mate. Simply put, we need to move. What we need is to move to a proper football stadium that can be as intimidating as GP can be (when it wants to be... ). And one that is distinct and instantly recognisable as Everton and not an identikit one.
Born L4
29 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:30:50
29 Posted 19/07/2007 at 13:30:50
I now live far away but wonder what thought has the LCC given to Anfied Community Comprehensive School or the children of Anfield & Everton. What planning officer gave away the family silver and did they have the right. Before anyone starts eyeing up Walton Park for Everton when are we going to put community before profit? When I lived there visiting cars, lorries, petrol tankers, 10 ton cranes were abandon blocking drives and roads so they didn’t miss the match. Is there no Environmental Services and Housing in Liverpool who have given any thought to carrying out the requirements of the Town and Country Planning and Countryside Acts?
lamo
30 Posted 19/07/2007 at 16:17:39
30 Posted 19/07/2007 at 16:17:39
everton have played football in 4 places, priory road,stanley park, anfield and goodison.all of them were outside liverpool when we first played there.i dont know why the club haven’t brought this up yet.the distance from anfield to goodison, is about the same as kirkby to fazakerly(liverpool)
Green and White Hoops
31 Posted 19/07/2007 at 18:20:12
31 Posted 19/07/2007 at 18:20:12
FROM THE HISTORY SECTION OF TOFFEEWEB
THE FOUNDING OF THE CLUB
The origins of Everton Football Club go back to an English Methodist congregation called New Connexion, founded in 1797. They decided in a meeting in 1868 to renew their social activities in the Liverpool area by building a new chapel there. The following year, they bought some land on Breckfield Road North, between St. Domingo Vale and St. Domingo Grove. This was located near the district of Everton (originally "Ofer tun"), which had become part of the City of Liverpool in 1835.
NOTE THE FINAL SENTENCE NUMBNUTS
THE FOUNDING OF THE CLUB
The origins of Everton Football Club go back to an English Methodist congregation called New Connexion, founded in 1797. They decided in a meeting in 1868 to renew their social activities in the Liverpool area by building a new chapel there. The following year, they bought some land on Breckfield Road North, between St. Domingo Vale and St. Domingo Grove. This was located near the district of Everton (originally "Ofer tun"), which had become part of the City of Liverpool in 1835.
NOTE THE FINAL SENTENCE NUMBNUTS
magicjuan
32 Posted 19/07/2007 at 20:06:26
32 Posted 19/07/2007 at 20:06:26
Sorry but I had to put this somehwere because I see a darker villain at work and to quantify that the following points stick in my mind, over riding all the bluster from Wyness etc, think on....
1. Why has there been no ?qualified statement? from Tesco?
2. Was the ?project? discussed prior to Terry Leahy?s appointment as advisor to Everton?s board?
3. Which of the parties involved requested the ?exclusivity deal??
4. Is the entire project dependant on Everton FC
5. What influence (in the same regard as influence of supporters vote) does Kirby residents feedback hold? (Would a ?no? stop the proposal?)
6. Did KMBC object to a planning application from Tesco to LCC for a site on the East Lancs before this project?
7. What is the value of Stanley Park in relation to the value of land ?donated? to EFC by Tesco/KMBC
8. Have approaches, as reported in Private Eye (gaydamak) & Telegraph (hong kong businessman at BirminghamFC) been made to EFC with a view to a but out/investment?
9. In relative terms, what actually constitutes Everton Fc?s holdings, other than Goodison Park, Players, Staff?
10. What are Tesco?s expected returns on investment and how much of the outlay is actually on Tesco retail development?
1. Why has there been no ?qualified statement? from Tesco?
2. Was the ?project? discussed prior to Terry Leahy?s appointment as advisor to Everton?s board?
3. Which of the parties involved requested the ?exclusivity deal??
4. Is the entire project dependant on Everton FC
5. What influence (in the same regard as influence of supporters vote) does Kirby residents feedback hold? (Would a ?no? stop the proposal?)
6. Did KMBC object to a planning application from Tesco to LCC for a site on the East Lancs before this project?
7. What is the value of Stanley Park in relation to the value of land ?donated? to EFC by Tesco/KMBC
8. Have approaches, as reported in Private Eye (gaydamak) & Telegraph (hong kong businessman at BirminghamFC) been made to EFC with a view to a but out/investment?
9. In relative terms, what actually constitutes Everton Fc?s holdings, other than Goodison Park, Players, Staff?
10. What are Tesco?s expected returns on investment and how much of the outlay is actually on Tesco retail development?
John Charles
33 Posted 19/07/2007 at 20:05:57
33 Posted 19/07/2007 at 20:05:57
*Pragmatic Resident*
The reason the city council should pay 50m (-and I am a city center resident) is because
Everton is worth 50m to keep economically to the city and its people
As soon as everton move Knowsley residents earn money instead of Lcc residents.
Car Park, tenner a go = Kirkbys money. Local business = kirbys money. Local staff wages = kirkbys money . Said wages then respent in Kirky.
Tax - kirkby. Tourism ’two teams in one city’ cant use that no more. - loss to Liverpool in pounds and pence.
50 years = 1 m a season or 83 grand a week. Everton just have to be worth 83 grand a week to the LCC economy. I can’t believe it if we are not.
The reason the city council should pay 50m (-and I am a city center resident) is because
Everton is worth 50m to keep economically to the city and its people
As soon as everton move Knowsley residents earn money instead of Lcc residents.
Car Park, tenner a go = Kirkbys money. Local business = kirbys money. Local staff wages = kirkbys money . Said wages then respent in Kirky.
Tax - kirkby. Tourism ’two teams in one city’ cant use that no more. - loss to Liverpool in pounds and pence.
50 years = 1 m a season or 83 grand a week. Everton just have to be worth 83 grand a week to the LCC economy. I can’t believe it if we are not.
lamo
34 Posted 19/07/2007 at 19:53:08
34 Posted 19/07/2007 at 19:53:08
when we played at anfield,the city boundy ran along walton breck road(the back of the kop).priory road, stanley park and goodison were all outside liverpool.fact.
mark-chester
35 Posted 19/07/2007 at 20:00:20
35 Posted 19/07/2007 at 20:00:20
"Finally, don?t moan that it?s limited to season ticket holders, at least these people have made a financial investment of sorts in the Club".
What the hell is that about!!! Not everyone has the money to buy a season ticket and have to make do with going to as many matches as they can within their budget!!!!!!
By the way to all you gobshite reds coming on this site having a go at us moaning, not every club has the benefit of a wealthy investor to BUY the title (sorry i meant spend shit loads of money on crap spanish players only to find themsleves still finishing behind utd and Chelsea - and beneathus still crying that he needs an extra 100m to buy the title)!!!!
What the hell is that about!!! Not everyone has the money to buy a season ticket and have to make do with going to as many matches as they can within their budget!!!!!!
By the way to all you gobshite reds coming on this site having a go at us moaning, not every club has the benefit of a wealthy investor to BUY the title (sorry i meant spend shit loads of money on crap spanish players only to find themsleves still finishing behind utd and Chelsea - and beneathus still crying that he needs an extra 100m to buy the title)!!!!
blue fanatic
36 Posted 19/07/2007 at 21:04:04
36 Posted 19/07/2007 at 21:04:04
Well said Mark from Manchester!
j annderson
37 Posted 19/07/2007 at 22:15:03
37 Posted 19/07/2007 at 22:15:03
Mr Toffee Crisp,I think you ’ll find that kirkby is a 1/4 of a mile from liverpool.
Janice Pentacle
38 Posted 20/07/2007 at 13:07:50
38 Posted 20/07/2007 at 13:07:50
When we move to the TescoDrome there will be no ghosts.
I visited the Emirates recently and the new stadium is brilliant in terms of it architecture but walking around I felt....nothing, no passion, no history, in fact I could have been anywhere. I only knew it was Arsenal because I was being constantly reminded by the polite tour guide of how much money each box was worth and that all the boxes together made as much as Highbury did in total. You could see the unease in the faces of the older supporters as all this guff was being trotted out. The tour was completed and we were funnelled through an underground car park into the shop to spend wallet emptying amounts on nic-nacs, oh and they did have a very small area reserved for the ?71 stuff.
Now a friend and fellow blue has been on a Highbury tour and we compared experiences - he described the passion & soul of Highbury to the point that he could almost pass as a Gooner and I described...nothing of the sort. I myself have done the Goodison tour and could compare to my friends experience at Highbury. My wife who has no particular affiliation went on both and was totally drawn in by the Tour Ladies at Goodison but was non-plussed by the corporate nonsense spouted by the Emirate employees.
My point I think is this...(at last!) When we move, because it?s going to happen be prepared for that feeling of bereavement. We will have a shiny new stadium - it might even look quite nice, but there will be no soul to it and no ghosts to give the collective voice the passion. This soul will take years to lay down just as it has taken generations for those ghosts to accumulate at Goodison.
...but then again I could be I?m talking bollocks.
I visited the Emirates recently and the new stadium is brilliant in terms of it architecture but walking around I felt....nothing, no passion, no history, in fact I could have been anywhere. I only knew it was Arsenal because I was being constantly reminded by the polite tour guide of how much money each box was worth and that all the boxes together made as much as Highbury did in total. You could see the unease in the faces of the older supporters as all this guff was being trotted out. The tour was completed and we were funnelled through an underground car park into the shop to spend wallet emptying amounts on nic-nacs, oh and they did have a very small area reserved for the ?71 stuff.
Now a friend and fellow blue has been on a Highbury tour and we compared experiences - he described the passion & soul of Highbury to the point that he could almost pass as a Gooner and I described...nothing of the sort. I myself have done the Goodison tour and could compare to my friends experience at Highbury. My wife who has no particular affiliation went on both and was totally drawn in by the Tour Ladies at Goodison but was non-plussed by the corporate nonsense spouted by the Emirate employees.
My point I think is this...(at last!) When we move, because it?s going to happen be prepared for that feeling of bereavement. We will have a shiny new stadium - it might even look quite nice, but there will be no soul to it and no ghosts to give the collective voice the passion. This soul will take years to lay down just as it has taken generations for those ghosts to accumulate at Goodison.
...but then again I could be I?m talking bollocks.
Colin Potter
39 Posted 20/07/2007 at 16:42:16
39 Posted 20/07/2007 at 16:42:16
Does anybody know how much if anything the red shite paid for stanley park?
Riverblue
40 Posted 20/07/2007 at 16:18:39
40 Posted 20/07/2007 at 16:18:39
Good article but.
1. Why cant Goodison be designed and incorporate the school into the building, for that matter why cant the ground include interior facilities for locals, community centre, sports hall, nothing is impossible. Old Trafford have redesigned and now pride themselves as the best ground in the country.
2. Warren Bradley and the whole LCC, why did we (Evertonians)not campaign at the recent elections to either put potential councillors up or oust the current custodians of our fair city, well probably not so fair to us who actually live in the city but what do they care. Ask LFC fans who get the spare tickets for their games, no need actually you will be able to tell by the thousands of aliens walking around with their offical club shop bags full of official club merchandise (whats that got to do with anything I hear you ask) Well consider this. Local council wont help Everton because Evertonians wont be spending any more money in the town than normal, unlike close popular neighbour whose fans travelling in will.
a. Book hotel room
b. Dine out in town restaurant
c. Take additional refreshment in the towns hostelries
d. Take transport to the ground
e. Spend upwards of £50 in club shop.
f. Take lunch from the vendors around the ground (Notice how many more they have than we have)
g. Transport back to town and in many cases repeat the above stages.Now do you understand the reason the LCC will fund them and not us, we wont spend any more than we are already doing.
3. "What I?m not prepared to do is put a huge piece of land up and cost Liverpool council taxpayers £50m. That?s not the way forward" No but he gave them a Park for gods sake a Park that was bequeathed to the city at that.
I dont blame Everton and Knowsley it wont cause me much trouble because I drive to the game anyway but I dont want to go away I want to go to Goodison there is plenty of room around the ground, the area is decayed and crumbling anyway and will need to be revamped in the near future so why in the future and not NOW?
Bradley knows they have made a big mistake in ignoring Everton and is trying now to limit his own exposure but it is too little and far too late, the decission has been made dont kid yourself that any ballot will change anything. In the words of Pvt James Frazer "we’re all doomed"
Vote Councillor Bradley OUT
1. Why cant Goodison be designed and incorporate the school into the building, for that matter why cant the ground include interior facilities for locals, community centre, sports hall, nothing is impossible. Old Trafford have redesigned and now pride themselves as the best ground in the country.
2. Warren Bradley and the whole LCC, why did we (Evertonians)not campaign at the recent elections to either put potential councillors up or oust the current custodians of our fair city, well probably not so fair to us who actually live in the city but what do they care. Ask LFC fans who get the spare tickets for their games, no need actually you will be able to tell by the thousands of aliens walking around with their offical club shop bags full of official club merchandise (whats that got to do with anything I hear you ask) Well consider this. Local council wont help Everton because Evertonians wont be spending any more money in the town than normal, unlike close popular neighbour whose fans travelling in will.
a. Book hotel room
b. Dine out in town restaurant
c. Take additional refreshment in the towns hostelries
d. Take transport to the ground
e. Spend upwards of £50 in club shop.
f. Take lunch from the vendors around the ground (Notice how many more they have than we have)
g. Transport back to town and in many cases repeat the above stages.Now do you understand the reason the LCC will fund them and not us, we wont spend any more than we are already doing.
3. "What I?m not prepared to do is put a huge piece of land up and cost Liverpool council taxpayers £50m. That?s not the way forward" No but he gave them a Park for gods sake a Park that was bequeathed to the city at that.
I dont blame Everton and Knowsley it wont cause me much trouble because I drive to the game anyway but I dont want to go away I want to go to Goodison there is plenty of room around the ground, the area is decayed and crumbling anyway and will need to be revamped in the near future so why in the future and not NOW?
Bradley knows they have made a big mistake in ignoring Everton and is trying now to limit his own exposure but it is too little and far too late, the decission has been made dont kid yourself that any ballot will change anything. In the words of Pvt James Frazer "we’re all doomed"
Vote Councillor Bradley OUT
Toffee Chrisp
41 Posted 20/07/2007 at 20:06:57
41 Posted 20/07/2007 at 20:06:57
Mr. Annderson
If you say its 1/4 of a mile then its 1/4 of a mile.
If you say Everton are League Champions in waiting then Everton are League Champions in waiting.
IF you say that we can compete in the transfer market with Wigan then we can compete in the transfer market with Wigan.
LISTEN AND LISTEN LOUD: KIRKBY AINT GOODISON!
In fact I would rather rent Anfield than move to the Bill Kenwright Tesco Multiplex Stadium.
River Blue good comment mate, particularly point one!
If you say its 1/4 of a mile then its 1/4 of a mile.
If you say Everton are League Champions in waiting then Everton are League Champions in waiting.
IF you say that we can compete in the transfer market with Wigan then we can compete in the transfer market with Wigan.
LISTEN AND LISTEN LOUD: KIRKBY AINT GOODISON!
In fact I would rather rent Anfield than move to the Bill Kenwright Tesco Multiplex Stadium.
River Blue good comment mate, particularly point one!
Chris Gallagher
42 Posted 21/07/2007 at 13:48:51
42 Posted 21/07/2007 at 13:48:51
It’s bizarre this. A decade ago, we had a no-hope team with a no-hope manager, a board who seemed to have little idea what they were doing, a run-down stadium and we all prayed to finish as high as 17th place.
Now we have a manager and board who - like it or not - have overseen a significant improvement in team affairs to the point where we’re qualifying for Europe. We still have a stadium which has seen better days and is very unlikely to get much investment in the near future.
In Kirkby we have plans, we have a real chance of serious investment (no never-before-heard-of Fortress Sports Fund) with a retail partner who have the financial clout to make it happen.
....but some seem determined to scupper the plans. What does it matter if the ground is on one side of a notional ’boundary’ or the other? It’s not a move 30 miles North like MK Dons.
PS. Obviously there is a plan B. Do nothing. Stay at Goodison and watch the revenue, stars, manager, etc get picked off by teams who can challenge for Europe.
For those who say that other sites, investment, council assistance etc etc could be found, one question - why haven’t they been found so far?
(Can someone help me down from my soapbox please?)
Now we have a manager and board who - like it or not - have overseen a significant improvement in team affairs to the point where we’re qualifying for Europe. We still have a stadium which has seen better days and is very unlikely to get much investment in the near future.
In Kirkby we have plans, we have a real chance of serious investment (no never-before-heard-of Fortress Sports Fund) with a retail partner who have the financial clout to make it happen.
....but some seem determined to scupper the plans. What does it matter if the ground is on one side of a notional ’boundary’ or the other? It’s not a move 30 miles North like MK Dons.
PS. Obviously there is a plan B. Do nothing. Stay at Goodison and watch the revenue, stars, manager, etc get picked off by teams who can challenge for Europe.
For those who say that other sites, investment, council assistance etc etc could be found, one question - why haven’t they been found so far?
(Can someone help me down from my soapbox please?)
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1 Posted 18/07/2007 at 19:03:53