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Arbitrary, contrary and scary

By Greg Callaghan :  31/07/2007 :  Comments (8) :
  1. Are you an adult Evertonian and able to vote in the forthcoming ballot? If yes, go to question 2.
  2. Do you currently reside in the City of Liverpool (i.e. your bin is purple)? If yes, go to question 3.
  3. Have you, at any stage of your life, ever been a resident of Kirkby? If no, then go to Question 4.
  4. Have you, at any stage in the period 1892-2007 done any of the following:
    • a) moved home from one part of the City of Liverpool to another part of the City of Liverpool;
      b) bought your first home within the City of Liverpool;
      c) rented accommodation within the City of Liverpool;
      d) looked for (non student) digs to share, rent, or kip-down on a freebie within the City of Liverpool? If yes, go to question 5
  5. When thinking where to base your new gaff, did you even consider Kirkby, did it even cross your mind to move there? If no, then go to question 6.
  6. Are you voting for EFC to move to Kirkby? If yes, then answer this final question:
  7. Just why? Hey?

Because if it didn’t even cross your mind (aahhhh, go-way, no it didn’t and you know it! Yer might have gone to Crosby, or if something had cropped-up in Birkenhead you might have gone “hmmm” for a while, but Kirkby never even registered as a starter, be honest) then why the hell are you voting for Everton to go there? What’s your reasoning? You’ve believed Keith “I wanna be rock like Rick” Wyness when he says the boundary is arbitrary have yer? (Well so’s the boundary between England and Wales but I dare ya to start mouthin that one off in one of those frosty reception boozers around Ruthin - boyo!).

But it wasn’t arbitrary enough to make you even consider moving to Kirkby, hey? Funny, how very contrary of you. I mean, do you even know where the estate agents are in Kirkby? Name me 10 roads that you can rattle off in Kirkby. And yet, there are large parts of Kirkby that are greener (well it would be wouldn’t it?), cleaner and tidier than many parts of that lovely City of Liverpool you didn’t, for one second, even consider leaving. Oh and don’t go on about “it’s me work, it’s the kids’ school, I need to be near me ma”, they do have roads in and out of Kirkby, they do have buses and trains, and it’s only a “few miles away across an arbitrary boundary”.

Face it, Kirkby didn’t register with you because you forget it’s there. You didn’t consider moving there in the same way that you didn’t consider moving to Prescot, St Helens or Widnes. Because those gaffs just aren’t on your radar (but at least they speak scouse in Kirkby; and I’m just waiting for Keith “we’ve been speaking to Nollsea council” Wyness to pop that one out, “hey kiddalaaa” *). No, there was a subconscious reason why you didn’t consider moving to Kirkby. And that’s the same visceral instinct that should be telling you to vote no. But for some scary brain computing error you’ve decided your gonna vote to move EFC out there and what’s more you wanna force me to go with you!!

For the last time: it’s not about the boundary, as such. But it may as well be. No, it’s just the fact that the place hardly registers in our psyche. Just have a word with yourself hey. It’s out of the way and you know it. It’s low profile. It’s off the beaten. It’s no, no, no, wrong, wrong, wrong. Suppose it’s all “arbitrary” though isn’t it?

(*) Not only can he still not pronounce Knowsley properly — “Nollsea”, for god’s sake, that’s courtesy for yer and he’s been speaking to them for a bloody year! — but he also says the new stadium is right by “Kirkby City Centre”. Go on, check out KW’s original slick — and entirely spontaneous — interview on the official site when he announced the ballot. Er, so which city do you mean Keith? Liverpool? Coz that’s, like, seven miles away. Or was it a subconscious slip, revealing that deep down you know Everton is a “city” club and your inner psyche hasn’t yet registered that we’re moving to a small town?

Reader Comments

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toffee rapper
1   Posted 01/08/2007 at 05:47:17

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Interesting... another anti-kirkby-ite resorting to character assassination and attempting to dehumanise...

Thought this might be of interest to anyone wondering why there?s a strong anti-kirkby flavour to a lot of forums on here (this was taken from the KEIOC forum, as they began damage-control after they showed vision of hooliganism to kirkby residents):

Editors' note: The remainder of this comment has been removed. Seeing as it did not quote the thread from the KEIOC forum in its entirety, it mis-represented those posters contained in the parts that were quoted.

Someone Very Angry
2   Posted 01/08/2007 at 05:55:54

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Original Poster:

You haven’t got a flying clue about what you’re talking about and you’re an embarrassment to all those who are against the Kirkby move and you’re dragging down the varied cohesive arguments that have emerged on various websites by intelligent people. You, I can say with supreme confidence, have never been to Kirkby.

And thank God for that.

I’m actually surprised the moderators of this website have allowed this up considering it has no other content except completely slagging off an entire town and it’s people.

This post has nothing to do with Everton whatsoever. Disgraceful.
Greg Callaghan
3   Posted 01/08/2007 at 07:24:01

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To ?Someone Very Angry?: Just how do I manage to slag off an entire town and its people? By saying that Kirkby is cleaner, greener and tidier than many parts of the City of Liverpool? Or by saying i’ts off the beaten? Go on, tell me, which bit, which precise bit, slagged off Kirkby and its people? None.
Now, to shatter your ?supreme confidence?: until I was 35 I?d been to Kirkby twice. Wooooo! First to run at the stadium as a schoolkid. Second to store my furniture away in crates for six months at a place called Perimeter Road. That?s an average of one visit every seventeen years for the first 35 years of my life. And I?d say that?s about right for many, many people within Liverpool. Admittedly not all. But for many - and it was to those people that my article was directed. And that, Very Angry Person, is the entire point and, if you must and really do need one, the ?concept? of my piece - to signal just how much, for so many people in the City of Liverpool, Kirkby is off the beaten track. It is. I now know someone who lives in Delfby Crescent. - and very nice it is too - and each time I visit him, I?m reminded of two things: just how little I know the place (I actually got lost last time and had to ring him from the car); and how much Everton, if they really had been thinking straight, wouldn?t have allowed themselves to be armlocked into such idiocy.
And how on earth has my piece got nothing to do with Everton? My first question was ?Are you an adult Evertonian?? And, judging by your response, I?m really wondering.
4   Posted 01/08/2007 at 14:07:17

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Firstly, you’re right, it’s not an overly abusive post reading it through again, but it still definitely targets one point to the disregard of everything else - and that is Kirkby.

The argument doesn’t incorporate the stadium itself, or logistics, or financial capability, or - at the very least it should include this - the pro’s as well as con’s of Kirkby as a place to move to.

Of course Kirkby isn’t daily life for everyone in Liverpool. Let’s face it, if it wasn’t for Goodison Park, how many Evertonians from all over the official boundaries of Liverpool would visit Walton every week? There’s certainly nothing there I can think of as a reason to go (and the worry that Walton would be seriously affected by Everton leaving is a poignant one.)

Places like Speke, officially in the boundary, are even less affiliated with Liverpool than Kirkby.

In London, I wouldn’t be surprised if one London club’s supporter had never been in the vicinity of another clubs ground as, regardless of city boundaries, people don’t spend their lives jumping around every part of a map every day as long as it’s "in the zone".

The reason for an angered response was the culmination of hearing the same and - in my opinion - nonsense argument that Kirkby is so "out of the way" it’s ridiculous to consider moving Everton out to "wool land" - as ridiculous as, like you say, moving to Widnes, St. Helens or Prescot, which - by the way - are all places that are nothing like Kirkby in terms of... well, everything.

Picture Everton at a new stadium in Kirkby and you’re driving an extra 15 minutes and actually getting a parking space at the ground, would it seem so "off the beaten track" then? Do you see Manchester United fans clamouring to move smack-bang in the middle of Manchester City Centre and away from Trafford because it’s "off the beaten track"? Nope. Let’s face it, if the Trafford Centre wasn’t there, you wouldn’t go and walk round the nice plot of land would you? You go there because there’s a reason to.

The real problem is people being afraid of change, and as such they’re basically imagining a Doomsday scenario of Everton building a shed in a land full of farms and cows and suddenly playing in the Conference.

I still don’t believe this post has much to do with Everton, rather than an attempt to dehumanize Kirkby as a backwards place that we’d be stupid to consider as the place isn’t "Scouse" enough for Everton due to a few lines on a map.

I apologise for the tone in my first post but can’t help feeling dismayed at attempts to simply dismiss Kirkby rather than argue against all the factors that are negative in the stadium move - such as the type of investment, the stadium design proposals, the exclusivity clause, the short amount of time given to make a decision that will affect the club forever etc.

But considering the main pressure group is entitled "Keep Everton In Our City", it’s no real surprise that the fact Kirkby is a few kilometres outside is the main - and often sole - point of contention.
Art Greeth
5   Posted 01/08/2007 at 15:02:48

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The most accurate thing about your post Greg is its title - Arbitrary, contrary and scary.

Whilst your list of premises at the head of your piece may (emphasis on MAY) be true, it does not follow that your conclusion is also true.

Take the following:
All witches have black cats.
My neighbour has a black cat.
So my neighbour must be a witch.

Nonsense, isn’t it? Even allowing (at a stretch) that the first contentious premise is true, the conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow.

A bit like your original post, really.

And with this I expect all Kirkby residents will be branded Satan Worshippers... sigh...
Dave Thompson
6   Posted 01/08/2007 at 20:55:52

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Can I refer to you to Mr Wyness’s answers to fans questions, listed elsewhere on this site, and also tonight’s Echo, or their website.

You won’t be parking at the ground.

Wyness says that due to "green issues" there will be a limited number of spaces. It was previously reported as 1000 cars (or about 3-4000 people), so factor in the "corporates" and the ordinary fans aren’t going there.

Wyness says it will be "Park and Walk" and "Park and Ride", and The Echo says the Park and Ride will be at Aintree Racecourse.

So you’ll queue up for the bus, and then queue up again after the game, and then queue up to get out of Aintree in your car.

Not so convenient after all, and no wonder they’re not shouting it from the rooftops.
7   Posted 01/08/2007 at 21:47:32

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Burn Art’s neighbour !
Jim Lloyd
8   Posted 02/08/2007 at 22:13:37

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Nice one paul! I think Greg went over the top a bit about Kirkby. But I agree with him that we should not move out of the city. I cannot help but thinking we will slowly (or rapidly) see our support dwindle in our own city. I know it’s only a fear and it can’t be proven but what’s left of my logic tells me that the kids innthis city will, more and more, grow up to suport the team of this city.
Granted, the support from within the city does not provide all our support, by any means, but I would say it is the vast majority. I am not criticising Kirkby in any way. The people of Kirkby are as scouse as I am but Kirkby is not in Liverpool and there is the rub. We hardly get any press at the moment. If we leave the city we will end up getting a piece in the Kirkby Reporter! Well, maybe not.. but I think it is vital that we stay in the city. Seeing as we have been given a vote, I would want to see all the information available on all options.
If Bestway,LCC, or anyone else is prepared to try and get a package together, then I fail to see why some evertonians are not prepared to at least see what they come up with.
Once we leave this city, there is no turning back. Before any decision is taken, I would hope ALL options are given equal consideration.

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