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Bestway can deliver!

By Ray Said :  02/08/2007 :  Comments (39) :
Regarding Bestway and the ?loop? proposal.

Some people, especially club officials, seem to be very sceptical about Bestway's ability to deliver and I pick up the impression that some people think Bestway are small timers but this is not borne out by a review of the company. So let?s remind ourselves of a few salient points and see what ?boxes we can tick?.

Finance box: Bestway is joint owner of a large and fast-growing bank with over 1,000 branches in 15 overseas locations. This bank itself also owns two Swiss banks. They have an ability to go into the money markets for access to finance at the best of commercial terms for a large-scale development of this nature. They will get finance on terms that other people, like Hicks, Glazer et al could only dream about.

Land box: the ?loop? is there and they already own it. Reasonable to believe they can deliver what they own? The loop borders the city centre, which is much more desirable for corporate and non football purposes than Kirkby.

The loop footprint is quite a tight fit but Bestway are proposing a large-scale multi use development and it?s reasonable to believe that the footprint may expand with the involvement of LCC. If the land footprint doesn?t expand it could still easily hold a ground holding 60,000 with steeply raked, double-deck stands close to the pitch, in effect the ground would look like an inverted pyramid.

Transport box: great road access, close to Lime St and Queens Sq, close to Tunnel.

Ability to deliver box: Bestway is a major supplier of cement to building companies throughout the world. It seems reasonable to believe they have good links with the companies they supply and it also seems reasonable to believe they could commission one of those companies to build a ground, especially if Bestway could commit a large part of the raw materials at cost price.

To illustrate Bestway's ability to commit and deliver, in January 1996 Bestway started work on their first cement plant. They committed 120 million USD and worked with Mitsubishi and Siemens amongst others and the plant was ready in April 1998. They broke ground on a second plant in April 2005 and committed 140 million USD. In July 2006 the plant started operating.

Tesco are a giant company who deliver results but I hope my post will help to convince a few fans that Bestway can also deliver what we need and, more to the point, can deliver it in the city we belong in.

Reader Comments

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Rupert Sullivan
1   Posted 03/08/2007 at 00:55:45

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Ray, I must admit to reading Wyness’ statement concerning a ’deliverable’ solution as a reference purely to the money factor. The impression I have is that the Kirkby site is sufficiently lucrative to Tesco that they are prepared to bear a large part of the costs.

Personally, I would rather EFC moved to the ’Loop’ site also as it fulfills the criteria of being in Liverpool which for me is THE crucial and deciding factor. It was reassuring to see the KEIOC banners outside the ground on Tuesday - I only wish EFC had made a better job of looking at alternatives.
Ray Said
2   Posted 03/08/2007 at 07:32:01

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Rupert

Statements from Tesco to shareholders seem to indicate that they will not do anything that Bestway won’t also do, which is meet a large part of the total costs of the development with EFC also meeting their share.
Tesco statements are quite clear that they are not using their shareholders money to build us a ground but that we are partners in a development that includes a ground. This seems to be exactly what Bestway are saying.
Latest staements from the CEO of EFC says we will have to commit circa 50 Million, sourced from ground sale and naming rights, as their share of the development. If EFC can deliver 50 million for Kirkby, we can commit the same funds drawn from the same sources for the Bestway development.
The terms on offer in both deals seems to be the same.
aigburthblue
3   Posted 03/08/2007 at 08:15:53

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the loop site is way too small, even goodison only just fits and it is basically a large traffic island, safety issues are a factor when 40,000+ fans spill out of the ground on all 4 sides. Wake up the loop site is just not feasible.
Gavin Ramejkis
4   Posted 03/08/2007 at 09:26:14

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Aigburthblue care to divulge your traffic planning, health and safety and architectural credentials to back up the claims of it’s just not feasible? I want to see for myself in black and white completed feasibility reports on alternatives even if they conclude that they cannot be done, I’m not a sheep to be herded on hearsay I make my own decisions but want to hear all sides of the story including alternatives and not just listen to propoganda.
dgf
5   Posted 03/08/2007 at 09:30:05

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Tesco are paying Knowsley 50 million for the land which I assume will include the land for their supermarket.
It is Knowsley who then are giving Everton the 50 million quid as I suppose a sweetner to come to Kirkby.
So in effect Tesco are not investing in Everton we are just receiving the money for the land.
If Bestway say they will give us the land for nothing and give 50 million they are worth listening to otherwise forget it.
dgf
6   Posted 03/08/2007 at 09:34:49

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Plus in addition Tesco are now one of the largest suppliers of financial services in the uk
Big Blue Bill
7   Posted 03/08/2007 at 09:55:47

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Bollocks. The loop looks massively povvy, tacky and generally a shite footprint for a stadium.
Also, is it just me or are the KEIOC stadium visuals amazingly shit. They look like they were made with a few fairy liquid bottles and some sticky back plastic. Kirkby here we come!!!
Steve Lyth
8   Posted 03/08/2007 at 10:10:37

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Tesco are one of the biggest financial service providers in the UK ?
My arse !Take it from someone who knows, they deal in food stuffs dgf and are miniscule in the field of financial services.
Andy Baker
9   Posted 03/08/2007 at 10:54:28

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The loop site is far too small and scotty road is a bigger shit hoel than Kirkby.

Just read the pdf from KEIOC, does everone realise that ther stadium idea has no roof?

’’A COMPARISON:
This stadium will be a completely enclosed arena (not covered, although this is also
feasible), with all the characteristics of the large Spanish and Italian superstadia.’’

taken from the pdf document
Steve Flanagan
10   Posted 03/08/2007 at 10:54:03

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Big Blue Bill

If you have read the pdf document from KEIOC then you will see that the stadium design is just that, a design. They have not added any facia colourings etc, which they have clearly mentioned in the document.

Also, their design comes from proper CAD software, and, in my opinion looks better than the Kirkby spotlights drawings.
Steve Flanagan
11   Posted 03/08/2007 at 10:58:53

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Andy

The KEIOC design does have a roof, it’s either not coloured in, or is a transparent roof.

When they say that the design has no roof, it means a roof akin to the Millenium Stadium.
Andy Baker
12   Posted 03/08/2007 at 10:58:53

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Also cant see Tesco or anybody else for that matter wanting to help us financially to build our own stadium at GP.

We also wouldnt have anything to sell so would probably only have naming rites as any way of raising funds for this venture.
Then we would have a Keep Goodison Goodison campaign by people not wanting to lose the name of our historical club.

KEIOC have missed one vital thing for me....COST and who will pay that cost.

my heads fuckin batterd with all this, i cant see a solution anywere, Kirkby or liverpool tbh
Andy Baker
13   Posted 03/08/2007 at 11:02:57

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Steve so why does it say in the pdf that it is enclosed but not covered? There are certainly steel structures that look like a roof from a side elevation but i honestly dont think theyve put one on it?
Andy Baker
14   Posted 03/08/2007 at 11:05:02

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Even on the model there is no roof?
dgf
15   Posted 03/08/2007 at 11:42:11

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Steve Lyth they made 65 million pounds profit last year on financial service and are a vastly increasing profits each year
There total profit on all areas for the last finacial year was 2,653 million pounds.
Prior to any of this I admit I never heard of Bestway. In the last financial year the Bestway Group total profit was £50 mill for all of its companies combined.
Steve do some research before you comment. Bestway are small fry in comparison to Tesco in all areas!!!
Big Blue Bill
16   Posted 03/08/2007 at 12:48:07

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No roof, no style, no hope. Hugely amatuer. The loop is "non-deliverable".
Goodison is quite frankly embarrassing to those of us who don’t live in a world of sentimental, rose-tinted, bitter-infused memories.
Progress hurts.
I for one can’t wait to hand over £35+ of my hard earned cash and be able to actually see the game without peering through a post box shaped appature whilst leaning round a rusty stantion.
Bully is my bitch. Kirkby here we come!!
andylad
17   Posted 03/08/2007 at 12:59:42

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those of you in favour of a move to kirkby should get down to St georges and see for yourself what is’deliverable’. The fact is that EFC have been locked into discussions with KMBC & Tesco without really exploring other avenues. How many more lies can you accept?
trubluuk
18   Posted 03/08/2007 at 13:14:52

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Could someone tell me where Bestway parent Company is based? and also who do they supply their concrete to?
trubluuk
19   Posted 03/08/2007 at 13:20:50

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Facts about Tesco from Wikipedia
Tesco plc is a UK-based international grocery and general merchandising retail chain. It is the largest British retailer by both global sales and domestic market share, is the world’s third-largest grocery retailer,[2] and is the fourth-largest retailer behind Wal-Mart of the United States, Carrefour of France, and The Home Depot of the United States.[3]

Originally specialising in food, it has diversified into areas such as discount clothes, consumer electronics, consumer financial services, selling and renting DVDs,[4] compact discs and music downloads, Internet service consumer telecoms, budget software and most recently garden centres. They are now entering into the housing market, with a self advertising website called Tesco Property Market.

I think they are a big Company
trubluuk
20   Posted 03/08/2007 at 13:24:31

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facts about bestway taken from their own website.

Bestway Cement. The Company’s principal activity is to produce and sell cement in Pakistan. The Company exports cement to Afghanistan.
Employees: 396

Seems to me Tesco is the bigger company.
trubluuk
21   Posted 03/08/2007 at 13:29:11

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Tesco Headquarters

Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, United Kingdom

Employees 273,024
dgf
22   Posted 03/08/2007 at 13:44:05

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There banking operation is that they operate 1000 banks in pakistan and have 15 others worldwide.
Their parent company the bestway group made a combined profit of £50 million pounds last year.
I think that unless you expect them to invest their whole of last years profit into our new stadium there is not a chance they willl come up with a better deal than Tesco.
Personally I am not sure if I would be happy with us dealing with a banking corporation based in Pakistan.
Crusty
23   Posted 03/08/2007 at 13:47:55

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Bestway is... the United Kingdom’s second largest Cash & Carry operator in terms of turnover with Group annual turnover in excess of £1.7 billion; the second largest Cement producer in Pakistan; joint owners of Pakistan’s third largest Bank; the largest overseas Pakistani investor with investments in excess of US$1.0 billion and a global workforce of over 21,000 people spread across four continents.

Nobody is arguing that they are as big as Tesco, just that they are in no way a small company.

Why do people insist on making points about stuff that they clearly know nothing about. It just makes you look very silly you know.
billy sea
24   Posted 03/08/2007 at 14:09:24

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We simply cannot afford to rebuild goodison,why do people think we can?.
Crusty
25   Posted 03/08/2007 at 14:23:17

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Are you for real? This is nothing to do with rebuilding Goodison! Here’s a tip... try reading an article before posting a comment on it.
Phil
26   Posted 03/08/2007 at 14:51:56

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I must be missing something here, when has Bestway suggested that they would help fund a new stadium for Everton?

As far as I’m aware all they have offered to do is exchange the land for another site in Liverpool.

This meeting today at St Georges Hall, it must be of great importance to LCC as Cllr Bradley is currenly abroad with his family so obviously wont be attending!!
INTHEPAST
27   Posted 03/08/2007 at 15:02:15

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THAT BILLDEAN IS WAY PAST HIS BEST ..LETS PLAY THAT YOUNG UN..THE ONE WITH THE BIG QUIFF
TERRYMARSBAR
28   Posted 03/08/2007 at 15:12:52

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BRADLEY CAME HOME ,ONCE HE REALISED THAT PEOPLE HAD GOT UPSET AFTER HE CANCELLED SOME BANDS PLAYING OR SOMETHING..AND THERES SOME FOOTBALL THING HE WAS MEANT TO DOAS WELL..HE ASKED HIS MUM TO REMIND HIM BUT SHE FELL ASLEEP
Steve Williams
29   Posted 03/08/2007 at 14:38:05

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It is clear that Evertonians currently fall into three groups:
a) those that vote YES to Kirkby and who won’t change their minds,
b) those that vote NO to Kirkby and have equally entrenched views, and
c) those that are somewhere in the middle and, to varying degrees, may be susceptible to persuasion to change / form their views.

Clearly we can all forget about the first two - it is the latter category that both sides need to work on.

For the record, I am strongly minded to vote NO, primarily because of the potential (no, likely) impact on our ability to grow Evertonians, not now but in fifteen years time when we would have vacated the city for 10 - 12 years to allow the other crowd to work their propaganda. Therefore I am intensely interested in anything that can wrestle the impetus back from the Baord of Directors and their slick YES campaign. It is clear that in this particular game, given the impending vote, we are into the second half and the NO campaign are at least a couple of goals behind; the NO’s needs to strike quick and strike hard. The KEIOC presentation today seemed like the perfect opportunity to get at least one goal back. I popped along eager to experience at first hand this fightback.

The KEIOC campaign did indeed score - unfortunately though it was an OWN GOAL! The presentation:
- was pathetically lightweight,
- lacked any sort of detail,
- offered little coherent argument against the Kirkby site,
- offered no idea of cost,
- suggested no sources of finance,
- provided no evidence that planning would be forthcoming,
- and gave no indication of the value of future revenue steams to aid the club’s development.

Now I know that the proposals by the Board are also lightweight in detail but that is the position they have chosen to occupy. The NO campaign cannot also try to occupy the same ground, they must occupy somewhere different. (Don’t forget that 12 years ago Labour moved into ground previously occupied by the Conservatives and the Tories have spent the invervening period trying to find new ground as they can’t compete on the same ticket!)

The important difference between the YES and NO campaigns is that the YES’s have offered a vision that they maintain is fully costed, planned and financed. Therefore it is deliverable. Whether we believe that or not is not relevant; it is a statement that is in the public domain, so for the NO’s to ignore the importance of this is astounding.

If the Board had any concerns about the strength of the NO campaign before this presentation, then they will firmly feel on Easy Street now. I fear we are deep into injury time and we are further behind than we were at half time. Almost game over!
Toffee Texan
30   Posted 03/08/2007 at 15:03:37

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Man oh man, this topic is giving me tired-head. I think it is time to move on to Kirkby. It’s a money issue. If Bestway is so interested and the loop site so feasible, they should have been pushing the Plan B a year ago. (PS, I think with a site like that there would be gigantic cost overruns with tunnels, underground parking, and other infrastructure.)

The team needs to get itself out from under the current financial burdens. There may be interested suitors to invest in the team but it seems to me that BK is not interested. The Tesco plan is evidence of this. If there were white knights out there waiting to invest and BK were interested, wouldn’t the new investors want to have a major play in the development of the new stadium site? Of course they would!

No, BK is not planning on ceding ownership. With that being said its time to move down the road. Yeah, new investment from some go-zillionaire would be great but it is not imminent or in the foreseeable future. Our club is obviously on a shoestring budget.

There was so much talk about DM dithering in the transfer market in the last few weeks. But it is nothing in comparison to this stadium dithering ? holding out hope for any potential ray of hope, clinging to the rumored feasibility attached to any site that comes along. Admittedly, the club has fumbled its public relations by holding their cards close and giving the appearance that only one option has been explored. But really, if Bestway or LCC or any other bright ideas came along that were just as attractive (or heaven forbid more attractive), do you really think the club hung up the phone? No, it?s time to move on.
Phil
31   Posted 03/08/2007 at 15:39:21

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Steve W

Was it really that bad? I did post on hear earlier in the week that I remained cynical regarding today’s meeting but thought it would at least offer some meaningful insight into the alternatives.

I suspected it would be alarmingly vague regarding the funding issue. Seeing as Cllr Bradley couldn’t even be bothered to attend it suggests he knew there was never any realism attached to the ’Loop’ proposal.
terrymarsbar
32   Posted 03/08/2007 at 15:46:36

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KEIOC.....I can understand your good intentions ..but most of you are clowns who dont want to try a different watering hole...your objections are mostly ill conceived scare mongering..and you have not come up with one VIABLE costed alternative to Kirkby..sowould you now please kindly shut the fuck up and let us get on with moving forward..x
Andy Cooper
33   Posted 03/08/2007 at 17:54:42

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Is it just me that thinks the loop Idea is an absolute joke, the plot of land is about the size of my back garden, were the hell are people suppose to park???. If we moved to this site we would be restricting ourselves to local supporters who can hop a train to limey or central, the premier league now has world wide appeal and clubs like everton have supporters up and down the country who travel to games by car. The only viable site is Kirkby and I for one will be voting yes to the move, people need to give up on these silly ideas that are getting thrown around by LCC and get behind the club and support the move to Kirkby.
Ste Boileau
34   Posted 04/08/2007 at 08:23:50

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I truly cannot understand why when presented with 2 or 3 very viable options, people still want to move to fucking Kirkby.
The designs for Kirkby are non existent, they are straight from a sketch pad. At least the Goodison designs are properly and professionally put together with analysis and statements to back up assumptions.
Even the costings for Kirkby are finger in the air, we’re being railroaded into Kirkby by some hidden agenda and it’ll destroy this club. We owe it to the past and to the future to at least look at whats on offer. As for those binning the Tom Hughes designs, its a fucking conceptual model, he says so in the document, you’ve probably just looked at the pictures cos the words are too difficult to understand. VOTE NO to Kirkby
robert carney
35   Posted 04/08/2007 at 11:32:46

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Terymarsbar;

Stick to eatimg shit chocolate and driving your car around souless concrete motorways and dual carriages. That is obvious why you are looking so forward to going to Kirkby.

Anyone with an inkling of intelligence knows this is a bad deal for our beloved blues.

VOTE NO and send so called Blue Bill the message to stand aside and let other investors come forward.
Let me finish and say to the scaremongers that there is no one around. Bullshit, why did they sign a deal of exclusivity if no other investors were interested.
missionpossible
36   Posted 15/08/2007 at 20:09:30

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to be honest I do not know the precise details of your problem and I apologise for that, but if Bestway has something to do with your future stadium then you are looking at the best plan. They are 100% rational and business minded people and believe me no one knows how to party more than Bestway so I can assure you, you would get an amazing view and an amazing quality fun stadium. BW dont do things by halves and they are 100% a people business so they know what the people want and they will deliver. Tesco is just a gigantic uncaring beast and a tesco proposition will just have zero class or style to it. BW have the largest cement plants in Pakistan and don’t forget they bought Batleys cash and carry in a £100 million deal. they wont let you down. maybe this is old news now anyway. i was just surfing. thanks.
missionpossible
37   Posted 15/08/2007 at 20:09:30

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to be honest I do not know the precise details of your problem and I apologise for that, but if Bestway has something to do with your future stadium then you are looking at the best plan. They are 100% rational and business minded people and believe me no one knows how to party more than Bestway so I can assure you, you would get an amazing view and an amazing quality fun stadium. BW dont do things by halves and they are 100% a people business so they know what the people want and they will deliver. Tesco is just a gigantic uncaring beast and a tesco proposition will just have zero class or style to it. BW have the largest cement plants in Pakistan and don’t forget they bought Batleys cash and carry in a £100 million deal. they wont let you down. maybe this is old news now anyway. i was just surfing. thanks.
missionpossible
38   Posted 15/08/2007 at 20:09:30

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to be honest I do not know the precise details of your problem and I apologise for that, but if Bestway has something to do with your future stadium then you are looking at the best plan. They are 100% rational and business minded people and believe me no one knows how to party more than Bestway so I can assure you, you would get an amazing view and an amazing quality fun stadium. BW dont do things by halves and they are 100% a people business so they know what the people want and they will deliver. Tesco is just a gigantic uncaring beast and a tesco proposition will just have zero class or style to it. BW have the largest cement plants in Pakistan and don’t forget they bought Batleys cash and carry in a £100 million deal. they wont let you down. maybe this is old news now anyway. i was just surfing. thanks.
missionpossible
39   Posted 15/08/2007 at 20:27:41

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sorry for the double post by accident

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