FAN ARTICLES
`The future will look after itself``
By David Hall : 14/08/2007 : 
Comments (17) :
I shall vote `Yes`in the great debate. Not because I believe that Kirkby is the rightful place for the greatest club in the land but simply because there is no Plan B. In truth there has never been a Plan B for anything. Not when Kenwright said no to King`s Dock and not when, almost 40 years ago,John Moores`s Board planned a giant new main stand with hundreds of obscured seats because to `go cantilever` would have added £250 to the bill.
Comments (17) : You see, Everton just do not do `long term`. As the great man told me at the time, "Just get it built, the future will look after itself!" And, regretfully, that has been the policy in all matters as long as anybody alive can remember. Examination of the Club`s accounts over many years will show that expediency has ALWAYS ruled. There has NEVER been a `Grand Plan` ? only a strategy to get through the crisis of the moment. Not for Everton a long-term marketing plan ? enough to find another sucker to pay up front for the pleasure of providing services to `the punters`. So why worry about developing the ideal stadium on the most appropriate site when somebody will `do a job` for you and pick up most of the bills (or so we are told).
You may be getting the impression that I have little faith in the people who govern ? and who have governed ? EFC... and you would certainly be right! I have good reason to believe that Sir Terry Leahey feels likewise about them but, unlike you and I, he is an Evertonian who has the wherewithall to do something about it.
Now I know his Tesco organisation will be looking to `turn a buck` on their apparent altruism but just like JM`s Littlewoods of long ago, their commercial knowledge is in a different league to that in evidence at Everton. In an ideal world, I would love to see Leahey grab the reins from Kenwright and transform Everton into a proper football business but that just isn`t going to happen. We can only hope that the man`s undoubted genius will rub off on `our people`. It can only be an influence for good.
The tragedy, of course, is that we Evertonians find ourselves boxed into this corner. Were there the remotest chance that any of the last-minute `alternatives` could attract the necessary funding then we could make a choice, but as ever, it`s this or nothing. And Wyness is right on that score ? nothing is not an option.
Ah, well... I guess the future will look after itself... won`t it?
Reader Comments (17)
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Lee Mandaracas
2 Posted 15/08/2007 at 10:14:34
2 Posted 15/08/2007 at 10:14:34
David
Very reasonable and accurate post. I cannot disagree with much of it’s content. Howeveer, like Danny, I find myself surprised that you are so ready to surrender and cast a ’settling for the only option’ vote.
You disproved your own argument when you stated that there has never been a plan B "Not when Kenwright said no to King’s Dock..." and yet here we are, albeit a few years on, with a different plan. There is always a plan B. In fact there are presently several.
We may have little time left to wait but the consequences of settling as you state you are prepared to do carry an infinitely greater risk than postponing to suitably investigate all options, however unlikely they may be. I implore you to think very carefully all over again. I don’t doubt you have agonised over this decision as we all have. It just petrifies me that anyone would vote with a self-confessed ’settling’ vote. If you believe it is genuinely best for the club, good luck to you but Everton deserve better than to settle for anything. What is our motto again?
Very reasonable and accurate post. I cannot disagree with much of it’s content. Howeveer, like Danny, I find myself surprised that you are so ready to surrender and cast a ’settling for the only option’ vote.
You disproved your own argument when you stated that there has never been a plan B "Not when Kenwright said no to King’s Dock..." and yet here we are, albeit a few years on, with a different plan. There is always a plan B. In fact there are presently several.
We may have little time left to wait but the consequences of settling as you state you are prepared to do carry an infinitely greater risk than postponing to suitably investigate all options, however unlikely they may be. I implore you to think very carefully all over again. I don’t doubt you have agonised over this decision as we all have. It just petrifies me that anyone would vote with a self-confessed ’settling’ vote. If you believe it is genuinely best for the club, good luck to you but Everton deserve better than to settle for anything. What is our motto again?
lee rogers
3 Posted 15/08/2007 at 10:34:08
3 Posted 15/08/2007 at 10:34:08
spot on david i totally agree.the thing is for some of you dome and gloomers lets vote no then all are decent players will be off cause the lack of ambition get in the real world lets face it we’d all love to have a plan b lets say a billionare build us a multi million dogs gonads stadium on stanley park wake up it aint happening i don’t want to go back to earl barratt days
jr
4 Posted 15/08/2007 at 11:59:43
4 Posted 15/08/2007 at 11:59:43
Well said David. The article nicely encapsulates how I feel.
I don’t agree with what Lee Mandracas said here and many, many others have said elsewhere - in that there are Plan B options available. Any other proposal that has been put forward is lacking one thing - money. Until any of the Plan B options have a clearly defined backer, then the Kirkby option is the only plan.
I don’t agree with what Lee Mandracas said here and many, many others have said elsewhere - in that there are Plan B options available. Any other proposal that has been put forward is lacking one thing - money. Until any of the Plan B options have a clearly defined backer, then the Kirkby option is the only plan.
karl Parsons
5 Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:27:49
5 Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:27:49
It suddenly dawned on me at 2.55pm Saturday when my team came out to the rousing sounds of ZCars that Kirkby must be our new home.
Afterall wasn’t the show (that we have branded ourselves with) based there?
Afterall wasn’t the show (that we have branded ourselves with) based there?
Harry Meek
6 Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:40:32
6 Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:40:32
I’ve already voted NO,David,but I think your piece exactly summarises how so many of us feel-between a rock and a hard place.Perhaps,like so many others,I voted with my heart whilst you,forever the realist,voted with your head.I have to say it’s difficult to envisage how EFC would ever be able to fund a stadium on their own when they’ve already sold off/mortgaged every asset and possible income stream for years to come.
McKinney
7 Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:36:27
7 Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:36:27
Lee
Can I just say that whilst I agree with some of your points and do feel that there may be a better option than Kirkby, I do not agree that there are several other plans currently on the table.
Goodison cannot be redeveloped, lets stop flogging that dead horse.
Other sites, Loop etc, are tiny sites that can only just get a stadium on, nevermind retail/hotel/residential/office developments which are needed to partner any such scheme as we cannot afford to pay for a stadium on our own. No talk of where the money will come from.
I agree that maybe, some day a much better deal may be put forward but at this time there are no other viable options on the table. Admit it.
Vote No if you want ut don’t do it based on Loop etc, in my opinion (and that’s all it is) the other sites are a pipe dream.
Anyway, let me just enjoy this top of the league business, I’m in seventh heaven!
Can I just say that whilst I agree with some of your points and do feel that there may be a better option than Kirkby, I do not agree that there are several other plans currently on the table.
Goodison cannot be redeveloped, lets stop flogging that dead horse.
Other sites, Loop etc, are tiny sites that can only just get a stadium on, nevermind retail/hotel/residential/office developments which are needed to partner any such scheme as we cannot afford to pay for a stadium on our own. No talk of where the money will come from.
I agree that maybe, some day a much better deal may be put forward but at this time there are no other viable options on the table. Admit it.
Vote No if you want ut don’t do it based on Loop etc, in my opinion (and that’s all it is) the other sites are a pipe dream.
Anyway, let me just enjoy this top of the league business, I’m in seventh heaven!
Lee Mandaracas
8 Posted 15/08/2007 at 13:28:23
8 Posted 15/08/2007 at 13:28:23
I guess I was a bit vauge in my meaning earlier due to a couple of replies. I am not saying ’Vote No’ because there are other options. I am saying (as much as I strongly suspect you are right that they do not have the same finances on offer) that is not known as fact yet. Until it is a fact, I think we should investigate, that is all.
The Loop proposal has some saying there could be great financial support from Project Jennifer. Also, it has been hinted that Bestway COULD invest into the project and, as they are a private company that does not have to report to shareholders, they could have much more flexibility. It has been alleged there might, possibly, at some point be an objection from another developer (Grosvenor investing £1m in the city shopping project) Everything is just too vague. As for the size of the plot, there are differing opinions there too with some saying Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium would fit into the space and others saying it is too small.
That is my point right there. We have no definite answers regarding investment of other sites, costings, viability, etc. Therefore, we should not rush into a huge action based upon assumptions and summisations. For the record, I do believe we should move away from Goodison Park and am not necessarily against Kirkby. I just want to definitely exhaust options within the city (preferrably within the ward) before accepting the move. I refer once again to my previous closing; What is our motto again? I don’t think it is "Nothing but the best except if it is cheap enough and we can rush it through rather than face the inconvenience of holding off whilst making sure."
The Loop proposal has some saying there could be great financial support from Project Jennifer. Also, it has been hinted that Bestway COULD invest into the project and, as they are a private company that does not have to report to shareholders, they could have much more flexibility. It has been alleged there might, possibly, at some point be an objection from another developer (Grosvenor investing £1m in the city shopping project) Everything is just too vague. As for the size of the plot, there are differing opinions there too with some saying Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium would fit into the space and others saying it is too small.
That is my point right there. We have no definite answers regarding investment of other sites, costings, viability, etc. Therefore, we should not rush into a huge action based upon assumptions and summisations. For the record, I do believe we should move away from Goodison Park and am not necessarily against Kirkby. I just want to definitely exhaust options within the city (preferrably within the ward) before accepting the move. I refer once again to my previous closing; What is our motto again? I don’t think it is "Nothing but the best except if it is cheap enough and we can rush it through rather than face the inconvenience of holding off whilst making sure."
Trevor Manton
9 Posted 15/08/2007 at 13:45:00
9 Posted 15/08/2007 at 13:45:00
The reality is that none of the alternatives can possibly be costed by deadline day-31 August.Just why have all these ’activists’ waited until now to put forward what can only be described as ’spoiling’plans.David Hall is right-we either vote for Kirkby or commit the club to stay at Goodison until it falls down around us.Anyway,as a Kirkby resident, why how is Walton a better place to be than my home town?
Anon
10 Posted 15/08/2007 at 13:55:42
10 Posted 15/08/2007 at 13:55:42
Lets fuck it eh, why don’t we just move onto Sefton Park, or Calderstones, or how about otterspool prom ... no ... we’ll buy Liverpool Cricket club and build a new stadium there. Or no, i’ll tell you what, why don’t we knock down 1000 homes and redevelop goodison. Or we build a huge platform over the Mersey and build a stadium on that, or what about we get the coucil to bin off this Paradise Street shite and build it on the old Chavasse Park. Or there’s some of the schools which are going down the pan, we could buy St Edwards College in West Derby ... they so skint they’re laying off all the staff. So we buy the playing fields, build a stadium and let them rent it out during thre week for their games sessions?
colin
11 Posted 15/08/2007 at 14:36:00
11 Posted 15/08/2007 at 14:36:00
Anon, this is supposed to be a sensible debate, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word.
Anon
12 Posted 15/08/2007 at 15:04:31
12 Posted 15/08/2007 at 15:04:31
No Colin it was a sensible debate about a 100 fucking years ago, now its just the same old boring shit day in day out.
The brain dead ones are those coming up with the ideas to redevelop Goodison or move to the Loop. Its not going to happen! It?s unrealistic and money doesn?t just grow on trees.
I?m sick to death of ?fans? trying to boycott the clubs attempts to progress.
The brain dead ones are those coming up with the ideas to redevelop Goodison or move to the Loop. Its not going to happen! It?s unrealistic and money doesn?t just grow on trees.
I?m sick to death of ?fans? trying to boycott the clubs attempts to progress.
karl Parsons
13 Posted 15/08/2007 at 16:17:51
13 Posted 15/08/2007 at 16:17:51
Anon. Amen.
I’m with you. I guess that makes me brain dead too.
I’m with you. I guess that makes me brain dead too.
Lee Mandaracas
14 Posted 15/08/2007 at 15:40:39
14 Posted 15/08/2007 at 15:40:39
Anon
What’s boring is your idea of intellectual contribution. Congratulations on demonstrating the level of your intellect and the type of person that is not willing to get all the facts before spewing hysteria onto the page. Read my second piece if you need clarification on where I stand on the stay or go debate. (By the way, congratulations on learning to read. I guess all the Seaseme Street paid off.) I just want more information. If that is not forthcoming by the time of the debate, we need to establish whether a yes vote is difinitive or merely permission to progress. In either case, WITHOUT MORE INFORMATION I would actually agree we should move to Kirkby.
So either stop reading others’ opinions or get a grip, grow up, move on and face facts. Some of us disagree with you!
What’s boring is your idea of intellectual contribution. Congratulations on demonstrating the level of your intellect and the type of person that is not willing to get all the facts before spewing hysteria onto the page. Read my second piece if you need clarification on where I stand on the stay or go debate. (By the way, congratulations on learning to read. I guess all the Seaseme Street paid off.) I just want more information. If that is not forthcoming by the time of the debate, we need to establish whether a yes vote is difinitive or merely permission to progress. In either case, WITHOUT MORE INFORMATION I would actually agree we should move to Kirkby.
So either stop reading others’ opinions or get a grip, grow up, move on and face facts. Some of us disagree with you!
Neil Webb
15 Posted 15/08/2007 at 16:42:39
15 Posted 15/08/2007 at 16:42:39
David,Only just read your piece-one of the most balanced and sensible commentaries on the situation we are all faced with.All in all,I think you’ve got it about right and I,too, shall vote Yes.On a point you didn’t mention,I do feel Kenwright displayed his gutlessness by referring a decision to a poll.But at leasst he can blame us supporters whichever way it goes!
Ray Mia
16 Posted 16/08/2007 at 01:17:56
16 Posted 16/08/2007 at 01:17:56
Interesting read David.
Here’s an interesting post on the blog to The Guardian re: Everton Stadium debate, IYKYH etc:
MarvinGaye Wrote:
August 15, 2007 5:37 AM
Manchester/gbr
Why is there such a big deal being made about a club that is called ’Everton’ moving out of the official boundaries of The City of Liverpool?
What is so significant about the city boundaries that hasn’t seemed to matter to Evertonians for the last 139 years or however many years it is since the club was based within the boundaries of Everton?
Everton probably haven’t played within the district of Everton since they were called St Domingo’s. Goodison Park is in Walton and the site of their previous ground is obviously within the district of the city from which it takes its name, Anfield.
Kirkby already has a claim to be Everton’s spiritual home. For many many years now, before every home game the Everton team has come out onto the pitch to the sound of Fritz Speigl’s arrangement of the traditional Liverpool folk song ’Johnny Todd’, otherwise known to the vast majority of Evertonians as ’The Theme From Z-Cars’. The fictional setting for the TV series, Z-Cars, ’Newtown’, was based on Kirkby, or as it used to be known Kirkby New Town. It is somewhat appropriate that Everton should now be based there. If not in Everton then the new ground’s location is arguably more appropriately situated there, rather than being based in either Walton or Anfield, for example.
Here’s an interesting post on the blog to The Guardian re: Everton Stadium debate, IYKYH etc:
MarvinGaye Wrote:
August 15, 2007 5:37 AM
Manchester/gbr
Why is there such a big deal being made about a club that is called ’Everton’ moving out of the official boundaries of The City of Liverpool?
What is so significant about the city boundaries that hasn’t seemed to matter to Evertonians for the last 139 years or however many years it is since the club was based within the boundaries of Everton?
Everton probably haven’t played within the district of Everton since they were called St Domingo’s. Goodison Park is in Walton and the site of their previous ground is obviously within the district of the city from which it takes its name, Anfield.
Kirkby already has a claim to be Everton’s spiritual home. For many many years now, before every home game the Everton team has come out onto the pitch to the sound of Fritz Speigl’s arrangement of the traditional Liverpool folk song ’Johnny Todd’, otherwise known to the vast majority of Evertonians as ’The Theme From Z-Cars’. The fictional setting for the TV series, Z-Cars, ’Newtown’, was based on Kirkby, or as it used to be known Kirkby New Town. It is somewhat appropriate that Everton should now be based there. If not in Everton then the new ground’s location is arguably more appropriately situated there, rather than being based in either Walton or Anfield, for example.
John Charles
17 Posted 16/08/2007 at 01:49:05
17 Posted 16/08/2007 at 01:49:05
Some pretty sensible comments above, my view point is that I am fearful some of our fans are being tricked into a ’no’ vote on the basis of investigating the Loop, which in my mind is clearly the biggest load of bollocks since god knows when.
They keep saying ’figures are coming soon’ dont they?
The Loop is a diversion tactic to give you false hope.
Vote No if you dont want to go to kirkby, there is much truth in that arguement, but don’t be jooped into doing so on ’The Loop’, because anyone who has any clue about developing projects like this can see from a mile off its not even remotely close to being a valid option.
It’s like saying "we could make Goodison a 125,000 seater stadium"
we could... if we have about 2.5 billion pounds to do it.
They keep saying ’figures are coming soon’ dont they?
The Loop is a diversion tactic to give you false hope.
Vote No if you dont want to go to kirkby, there is much truth in that arguement, but don’t be jooped into doing so on ’The Loop’, because anyone who has any clue about developing projects like this can see from a mile off its not even remotely close to being a valid option.
It’s like saying "we could make Goodison a 125,000 seater stadium"
we could... if we have about 2.5 billion pounds to do it.
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1 Posted 15/08/2007 at 09:09:21
I can empathise with your post, and I find myself agreeing with the vast majority of it-apart from your vote to move. It saddens me when I see someone like yourself, a fellow fan "settle" for something that they don’t really want. It is why I never criticise the "yes" element of fans becasue I know that a great deal of those voting yes would not do so if we had a viable alternative at this moment in time. For myself, I am a traditionalist-and I believe "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum" should prevail. It saddens me that a club of Everton’s stature has had to improvise and "settle" for the most viable option for our home.
Years of mis-management at board room level has brought us to this crossroads in the clubs life.
It would be fantastic to have Terry Leahy as our chariman I think that his business acumen coupled with Moyes would be truly the dream team. But hey, I am just a dreamer.
Many people beleive that this move will take us up into the next Echelon of teams challenging for honours. Look at teams with passionate support similiar to ours (In model) like Tottenham, West Ham, Leeds Utd, among others, is it that great? This worries me as it shows what can happen when the money becomes the focal point of success. Money does not bring success, although it helps. Team spirit and Unity (Of fans as well as the team) are the true bringers of success.