What a waste ? Part II
By Anthony Newell
: 25/08/2007 : Comments
Well, four games in and the early promise has gone, the wheels have come off, the bubble has burst. The focus falls once more on our esteemed manager, Mr David Moyes and his ability to put out an effective line up/formation/tactics FROM THE START in an effort to glean full points from another very winnable game. Salvaging a point at home to Blackburn in the end is not good enough, in fact it is piss poor, make no mistake. Three points in the end today would have been unjustified and masks over some obvious concerns.
On the subject of masking over things, McFadden's equalising goal should not mask the fact that this player has to be carried too much for the sake of the occasional goal (important ones recently I know) and for that reason should be offloaded and soon. He got his chance today but once more, his inability to perform the most basic of footballing things like pass a ball to man is infuriating and thus renders him a liability.
As soon as I saw the line up today I thought ?Stubbs in, Lescott, on the bench, WTF??. I then saw that Carsley and Neville were to figure in midfield again and thought ?too defensive, were going to struggle against some very capable Blackburn players in the form of Bentley, Santa Cruz and McCarthey?. Finally, seeing Hibbert in, Jagielka out and no Pienaar brought on feelings of ?Not again" and "we don?t have enough going forward to unlock this side?
Well, to the game itself, what a shame that Moyes only sussed out the correct approach after 45 minutes which was too late again I?m afraid. The first half vindicated my worries in seeing a sterile showing and long balls punted up to Johnson severely impairing his effectiveness. The lack of passing and the over-reliance on Arteta who again couldn?t shoulder all of Everton?s creative dribe meant Everton posed no questions at all. So Carsley hauled off, Neville put in his correct position, Jagielka on but all too late I?m afraid. The same issues raised in relation to the Wigan and Reading games but lessons not learnt
So another three points wasted as we wait for the penny to eventually drop with Mr Moyes. So the evidence is there for all to see, Moyes doesn?t see things quickly enough, is not progressive in thought until it is too late, makes downright daft and stubborn decisions (Stubbs in for Lescott, Neville & Carsley both in, Hibbert in)
What a waste indeed but how long do we have to put with this backwardness? FFS I don?t have the ability of a football manager but can see when things just aren?t right. Why can?t Moyes???? I don?t suggest sacking this guy but he needs some help in the form of a technical football assistant or maybe just a trip to Specsavers. Thousands can see what he can?t or won?t change and that is alarming and wasteful in equal measure. We obviously have a much better squad now than we have had in years but it?s painful to watch J-curve Moyes, with the same 'things have to get worse before they get better shite'.
Christ on a bike, I?m missing Mr Marsh already
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I thought we looked reasonable till they scored then we fell apart.
I think our biggest problem is lack of physique. Johnson Osman and McFadden all knocked off the ball too easily. Their midfield and defence dominated all day.I thought Baines looked impressive going forward though and Jags put in a couple of meaty challenges. Worth mentioning Phil Neville who I thought had his best game in a Blue shirt (I?m normally his biggest critic).
Well another two points wasted. Why we couldn't have pushed the transfers through sooner is beyond me.
Yep, hard not to disagree with a lot of that, but, with new signing?s bedding in, to come, David Moyes is still trying to get the balance right.... and not to mention Tim Cahill to return.
I couldn’t agree more. Moyes was far too defensive in his lineup, for me it’s either Carsley or Neville in the midfield NOT BOTH. I have yet to see many call out the piss poor performances of Hibbert. For the second week in a row his is implicated in a rather ’soft’ goal. Frankly, he has been poor ever since coming back from injury last year. I still can’t get over that give away against ManU at home last year. It is time to sit him down and play Jags or Neville at RB.
I think you miss one glaringly obvious point regarding our leader Davey Moyes and that is he has built a team and an ethos which stems from the tight budget ( although how strange lots of cash has recently appeared as us Evertonians are being asked to endorse the club hierarchy and their infinite wisdom ) and Moyes’ own suspicion for all things over hyped and over priced in our beloved top flight. He has therefore asked a lot in terms of commitment to the cause and albeit from admittedly limited footballers ( Hibbert, Neville, McFadden ) and he has both created and been given a team spirit to be proud of. I’m sure Moyes realises that this team needs to be taken to the next level in terms of football and let’s hope that recent signings allow this to happen BUT take away the togetherness and spirit and you are sadly left with a bunch of over priced, fevered ego’s who will display only flashes of brilliance before they start diving around and looking for their agents to move them somewhere warmer, Bolton and the Anelka / Diouf saga being a case in point. I think we saw the future in the second half today with Neville playing in his best role for the team, in Baines we finally have some who can provide the distribution we need from the left and Jagielka looked like he would fit nicely into a role which will free up Manny leaving Yakubu to be the clinical quality we are lacking in front of goal.. sorry AJ. Take away our fighting spirit and the players trust that Moyes will back them and believe in them until it is obvious for all to see that they are not up to it and we become average again. Moyes owes those who started today but knows this club is owed and expects much, much more. In Moyes we trust.
I pretty much agree with the previous comments. We’re defensive-minded in the centre of the park, our ’wide’ midfielders tuck in (making things congested) and our full backs aren’t especially adventurous, so the balls that we play forward tend to be long punts or aimless diagonal balls from our own half.
Hibbert has had more than enough chances and is caught out game after game, it’s time for either Neville or Jagielka to replace him.
As for substitutions, the commentary said that Carsley came off because of an injury (I wouldn’t expect Moyes to change things just before half time for tactical reasons) and I would expect that Stubbs was probably brought off for similar reasons. The trouble then though, was that we only had one sub left to try and change the game offensively. Maybe Moyes could have pushed Baines further forward and dropped Neville to left back to give us some width, allowing him to make the change upfront? He could have withdrawn Osman and played Mcfadden behind Anichebe and Johnson or even gone three up top.
Surely he must have also considered introducing Pienaar.
Overall, we looked fairly compact, but we’re just lacking in ideas and goalscoring threat. Sure Blackburn are a decent side, but they come to Goodison with a midfield of Pedersen, Dunn, Bentley and Savage holding. Why should we play them at our place with a more defensive line-up than they’re putting out?!!
Ultimately I was glad we came away with a point when we could have been stuffed. However, Bained left back, two good centre halves and Jagielka in defensive midfield gives me a stiffy. With the Yak and Manny to come in plus Vaughan and Cahill back there will be plenty of attacking options too, someone get me a tissue.
After watching the flowing,passing and moving game that ripped spurs apart it was very frustrating to watch the long ball dross today,especially after conceding such an easy goal (hibberts fault again) and not helped by the woeful choice of tactics,I am very sure every premier league manager would not have hesitated of putting lescott and jagielka in their starting line up,Take note moyes!
Anthony Jaras, I want us to do better than today because I know we can do with the right line up and tactics. Apply that to Reading and Wigan for that matter. I see a manager who is holding us back with his fucking Howard Wilkinsonesq and wacky, ill-thought out type team selections, daft bloody allegiances and limited tactical know how. I want him to change and get better but I’m not prepared to wait 5 years for it. If Manny and Yakubu are signed as I expect there is no excuse why we shouldn’t be in and around the top 4 by christmas. If were not it will be down to either chronic injuries or the limitations of Moyes again, no excuses. I won’t even respond to the red jibe except to say that I thought this kind of nonsense had been outlawed now. By the way, did anyone see the attendance today? Should be no problem packing out a 50,000 stadium in Kirkby. All those new executive boxes should also be rammed
first of all, what?s a "dribe".
secondly, how many manager of the year awards have you won?
yes, the team had its limitations today. Sounds like you did as a supporter as well.
branding moyes as a backwards manager? He?s proven to be a progressive manager, time and time again - there are obviously problems with the way the side executed today, perhaps even with the starting line up - I can?t see how your derogatory manner helps things in any way.
Get behind the team, no-one can deny we are not steadily improving.
Empty seats, are you surprised? 10% of our seats have an obstructed view and I for one am not paying £30+ to sit in one. Bring on Kirkby.
If we had started the game with the team that took the field in the second half we?d be second in the table this evening. Hibbert, Stubbs and Carsley are decent squad players but will never get us into the top 4.
With everyone fit my starting line-up is Neville/Jags, Yobo, Lescott, Baines at the back. In midfield Arteta, Cahill, Fernandes and Neville/Jags and up front Vaughan and Yakubu. In this day and age the bench is critical, so we have AJ, Osman, Faddy and the 3 squad players mentioned above.
Anyone have any problems with that, apart from Davie of course?
ive never agreed with someone more than this you hit the nail directly on the head, why on gods green earth do you play stubbs when lescott could play the same with hibbert, when neville or jags could do a much better job, but most of all steven pienaar, the lad has obvious talent so why not play him it just is to frustrating to talk about, moyes will prob stick with his ’trusted players’ when we get manny and yak! although i think we all hope not
I also wonder ...
John: full name please. Thanks, ? Ed
Anthony. I watched this on the tele in Adelaide 1.45 am start. Same as you and others, I was surprised to see Stubsy in place of Lescott particularly with big, fast Samba around. They made us look a bit static in midfield, too. OK, maybe Davey got it wrong this time but let?s cut out the whingeing. We?re only 4 games in and, guess what, negativity wins nothing. W2 D 1 L 1
Look at where Everton were before Moyes leadership. To use a cliche ?Rome was not built in a day?. Everton is a club moving forward. As fans we will never all agree with the managers decisions and part of this is because occasionally they will not get it wrong but in David Moyes we have a manager who is progressing the club in the right direction. Were you so optomistic about our chances in the league 6 years ago, or would you have been singing the managers praises for having started the season looking like a team more than capable of competing for europe than facing a relegation battle. Get some Positive Mental Attitude (PMA). COYB.
I hope the ?groin injuries? broke Moyes? faith in the team today. We looked a lot better when Neville switched to right back, and Jags was in midfield with Joleon partnering Joey.
Tony Hibbert is a wholehearted performer, but his limitations now show through, as he was at fault again for their goal, and his distribution is average at best.
We need Manny in midfield with the Jag so that we are not scared of receiving the ball, which leads to the hoofball we all appear to hate, and which makes absolutely no sense when they have a no-nonsense 6?5" centre half.
Forget the sentimental crap Moysie, and lets see our next game starting line up as:-
Neville Yobo Lescott Baines
Arteta Fernandes Jagielka Pienaar
I believe this will show real intent at Bolton, and will be interesting when Vaughan and Cahill are available.
Baines was Evertons? best performer today for my money - Moyes? money well spent.
Without wishing to sound too disrespectful, maybe it would be an idea to refrain from publishing material that is written too close to the final whistle. It’s hard to read stuff that is high on emotion (disappointment in this case) but low of fair-minded appraisal.
I just don’t see what else explains the Moyes-bashing here...
Without wishing to sound too blunt, this forum is here for people who want to comment on what they have just seen... or what they saw a week ago. It’s up to them ? not up to you, Jimmy Fielding ? what they comment about.
Moyes gets "bashed" if he doesn’t play our best team, if they don’t perform to the best of their ability. It’s got nothing to do with emotion; it’s an assessment of what people have just seen ? who gives you the right to say that is not a fair-minded appraisal? If you can provide a different appraisal of the game, then let’s hear it.
But if all you can do is slam other people for commenting then I’m sorry, but perhaps you shouldn’t read it. Please don’t try to stop other people from commenting as they see fit (within the rules of this forum). If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
The second half was a big improvement, we could have won, although didn?t really deserve to, great positives with Jag and Baines, substitutions improved things and we didn?t fold. This was not equivalent to Spurs home last season either in tactics, result or long term effect. Blackburn, although over-physical, were effective and pacy and direct in attack. They are also very fit. Some of ours at the end were crocked or knackered. Not many will beat them this season. Or us. Bolton are beatable and I agree we don?t go there looking for a draw. Dare I suggest, before putting up my shield, that some comments here have as much to do with events off the field as on it? I?ve seen a lot worse than today.
I don’t think I’m qualified enough to tel David Moyes his job and I think he’s doing a great job for the blues. I don’t hold with the practice of critisising the manager’s tactics or team selection after only 4 games into the season , the same as I don’t agree with fanfares galore after winning the 1st two games , this is a 9 month , 38 game marathon , we’ve got 2 probable 1st choice players injured and 2 players who can’t play due to red tape issues , Also , all we see is the 90 minutes on the pitch , we have no insight into what’s going on at Bellefield during the week , DM keeps his cards close to his chest , and so he should , and puts a team out each week to do a job , Who knows why Lescott was on the bench ? but when he came on he played like a man possesed and never put a foot wrong , and as much as I admire Joleon , he was to blame for Spurs goal and missed the throw in that lead to Reading’s goal . Did he need a wake up call ? It worked , didn’t it ! we’ve got 7 points , should be more , I know , but as I’ve said before , it’s a marathon , not a sprint
Sorry, I really did say that this game was not equivalent to last year?s spurs at home in long term effect. Before anyone, rightly, asks how I know for sure, I don?t but I don?t believe there will be any equivalent long term implications. This will not be such a pivotal game, but there are indeed lessons to be learned and I too wonder why the starting line up was as it was.
This is a game that Moyes has to stand up and be counted for over team selection. Yes it was good to see Baines get his first start but we all know Blackburn are a big strong team and we did not have the aerial or creative power to combat them. To leave Lescott out for Stubbs meant we were slow at the back and had to defend deep. With ni centre forward to help at corners why did we not start with Jags to help out - he was a breath of fresh air wehn he came on. Hibbert has had a poor start to the season and gave away a goal (as at Reading with a weak challenge). Johnson has been poor since last Christmas and looks off the pace and yes McF scored but for the rest of the game was a passenger as was Osman. Neville and Carsley do not work as a creative centre midfiled particularly at home. The new signings will help but we need more creativity to support Yakubu when he arrives.
David Marsden - You stole my thunder and the words from my mouth. Some people need to look at the bigger picture. Blackburn are a good side.
Firstly, to Dave Marsden, I don’t know all the answers but I’m expressing an opinion which is what I believe this site is all about; I don’t think I deserve your personal abuse to be honest, I want the side to progress and succeed like you must do. If you don’t agree with the government do you keep your mouth shut because your obviously not an MP/minister? It is very annoying that people respond with "you know it all" and "you go and do a better job than Moyes". This is about bloody opinions for gods sake, just because I don’t agree with some of the manager’s decisions it shouldn’t mean I have to show some FA/UEFA badges to justify my argument
The whole picture is this: we have been down this road with Moyes before and we are wasting the opportunity to collect points at the minute due to ill-thought out team selections/tactics. How many times are we going to say that "we’ll judge Moyes on this season", "this is going to be a defining season for Moyes" - WELL IT’S THIS BLOODY SEASON!!!. He has had long enough now and I won’t wait another 5 years to see if that ’Roman Empire’ is going to come to fruition before I start calling for his head. I strongly believe that we could have finished higher last season if it wasn’t for occasions when the side just wasn’t set up right or we didn’t go for it when we could. Believe it or not I AM an optimistic fan with a positive attitude but it is INFURIATING to see us going through the same sequence yet again and I’m utterly gobsmacked that people either can’t see it or make excuses for it
I donb’t think Moyes made any secret of the fact that he was going to start the season with the lads who finished last season. Before yesterdays game we had done ok with 2 wins and a loss so it was hardly reason enough to drastically alter the team that had done so well last year. Yesterday’s game may well be a blessing in disguise as it has given us all a chance to evaluate Jags and Baines in a real match situation as well as Neville at RB again and I think we are all agreed 100% that the team that finished on Saturday should form the nucleus of the side that starts next week against Bolton (with the hopeful inclusions of Manny and YAK). I for one don’t blame Moyes for yesterday’s starting 11 but will be a little miffed if next weeks team doesn’t reflect the lessons learned against Blackburn. Hers’s hoping.
If any lessons have been learnt from the start of the season, we will see the following changes for the Bolton game subject to completion of transfers, I’m being optimistic and positive now folks!!!:
Stubbs out, Lescott in
Jagielka in, Neville to RB, Carsley out
McFadden out Yakubu in
Osman out Fernandes in
However, Moyes’ track record makes me think he we will approach this defensively and needlessly as a tough game and his new acquisitions will require match fitness and ’bedding in’ time
I want to be proved wrong, we will see
Can I make the point that it was not 3 points lost, as we got 1!
This was the same Carsley today who quite rightly got praised last season for the role he played, and who was quite rightly singled out as the most sorely missed player of the previous season. The same could be said about Stubbs, who was badly missed during his half year stint away from the club. These two have served the club well in the past and should only be replaced when incoming players prove they’re worthy of a 1st team place. If we’re picking players on the amount of money spent on them, then surely Beattie should have partnered Johnson up front all last season!!!
Lets show some respect to the players that have been unsung heroes of the past few seasons.
i agree with most of what you have put, however frustrating mcfadden is he can change the game, and i respect moyes for having the bottle to change things so early however i agree that starting 11 was definatly the wrong team.
where the hell is manny !!! nearly a week after a deal is supposed to be struck and hes no where to be seen.are u telling me we didnt need him yesterday at blackburn,faddy got a goal but didnt play well at all.dont get me wrong i love moysey but why do we have to wait for the yak to unveil manny.im sweating more on manny than yakubu i dont know about you.....?davey please drop hibbs for neville for christs sake how many times has he got to let us down at the back....keep the faith with aj he will score soon cant wait to see the yak upfront with aj...rip rhys efc forever
What’s obvious is that other teams are going to look at a lightweight Everton and decide to push us around. Happened at Reading, Blackburn do this as a matter of course- we need someone in midfield who can slap the Robbie Savages of the world around. So Tim Cahill get well soon..........
Looking at the bigger picture, I think it’s fair to say DM is doing a terrific job. Each summer he has strengthened the team. We now have a side that can genuinely challenge for fourth place. I’m afraid we still can’t compete with the Mancs, Chelski and the RS but Arsenal are not the team of yesteryear.
Our best eleven can give anyone a game. However, as yet we haven’t seen our best team. So what is our best team? I would suggest: Howard; Neville, Yobo, Lescott, Baines; Carsley; Arteta, Fernandes, Cahill; Yakubu, Johnson in a 4-1-3-2 formation. Carsley does a terrific job when playing just in front of the back four and would allow Neville and Baines to get forward in wide positions, supporting Arteta, to provide crosses for Yakubu and Cahill.
A number of things disappointed me about yesterday’s game. Firstly, team selection, Lescott’s omission!, Hibbert’s limitations are now being exposed on a weekly basis, Phil Neville is not good enough to play in centre midfield (his passing is fairly atrocious) but he is a good right back and a good leader. The centre midfield pairing of Neville and Carsley is too negative for the type of game we need to go and win, Jagielka and Pienaar would have been better option. Apart from his excellent goal, don’t get me started on the inept McFadden! Secondly, I would have thought all week (pointless internationals aside) the coaching staff would be drilling into the players that, on Saturday we’re playing a tall, physically strong Blackburn side, therefore, play the ball to feet or down the channels for Johnson to run onto; DO NOT even think about launching aerial balls, but what did we get......
Having had a little moan, I must say the future does look bright!
Posted 26/08/2007 at 15:05:59
Have to say I agree with most of whats ben written about yesterdays game..apart from it being "negative " tactics by Moyes.
the line up did look a bit defensive ..but by playing Mcfadden alongside A.J you can see he was after more passing and movement which to be fair we got for the 1st 15 mins.
The confidence drained after the 1st goal and (Hibbert especially) we started hoofball..also Blackburn upped there game after the goal..and we were very lucky to come away with a point...
Still plenty of positives though..Baines was great, defensively and going forward..even passes it to his own men..Jags slotted in great in midfield and again tends to pass to his team mates...what I feel we lacked more than anything through out the game though was movement off the ball..we looked like statues when our defense had possession and Hoofball on some occasions was the only option..Mcfadden also looked better out wide and drifting in were he can commit defenders..he seems too easy to mark when he plays thru the middle..
Overall..we dont have a bad squad, and when all fit ie; Vaughn, Cahill, Yakubu, Fernandes..we look like we could have top 5 team..
But its a funny old game..though not always amusing
The "wheels have not come off" nor has the "bubble burst" for me, nor I would guess anyone else that has a true understanding of football. 4 games in, 2 wins, one loss and a draw, could be better could be worse.Your clearly just one of these irrational "Moyes out" fiends that has no aletrnative to him and harks on about the 3 or four good seasons we had in the 80’s !!! Youd be better off supporting the RS mate, they are the fickle ones. Just as I didnt think we were going to win the league after two games of the season I dont think is all doom and gloom after drawing and losing the next two !!! GET A GRIP !!!
Quite stupid analysis. We would not have a respectable squad if it wasnt for David Moyes, so even we may disagree at times, he is the one moving the club forward. Blackburn are no easy team to play so when u talk about how its points lost today, you are being ridiculous. How about support for the manager that clearly moved this club forward in the last few years. Oh yea..how many manager of the year awards have you won?
It was not two points dropped. We equalised to gain a point.
I agree with previous comments we lacked mussle up front. Like any good Managers Moyes reacted to the way the game was going by bringing on Anichibe for added strength. We could have easily been talking about a defeat give the guy credit. The Yak will help us out with strength in the future and with that in Mind we will have options of strength and pace upfront with big vic and vaughan as back up. With Cahill returning soon and hopefully the Fernandes deal gets sealed we will be probably be talking about a great attacking side. Happy days are on the horizon.
POOR... POOR... POOR...
I’ll say it again, we were poor yesterday.
Average against Wigan,
Great, (Maybe Lucky?) against Spurs,
Poor against Reading,
Poor against Blackburn,
Sorry, but I have major cause for concern at the moment
McFadden.... Dont even want to start a rant about him... he’s an half decent reserve at best.
Hibbert..... ... .
Neville and Carsley in midfield made Robbie Savage look like a world beater.. Our Centre midfield got walked all over..
Also, despite throwing in a few GREAT tackles, (and they were good solid tackles), I got the immpression that Jagielka did not want the ball going forward.
and when he got the ball he seemed to play the ball square far to often!?
When the opponants attack ends safely in Howards arms, I want to see the midfielders screaming for the quick roll counter attack, receive the ball quickly say 25 yards out, turn, and start sprinting forward with the ball.
Run straight at them. Make up ground, and look for a through ball, (ACCROSS THE FLOOR!), for Johnson to run onto.
Having Johnson Sprint out wide chasing dead ends all day, is far from good play. As is having Phil Neville playing long back passes onto their centre halfs head.
I really struggled to take any positives from yesterdays game.
Apart from the fact that Tim Howard seems to be a ’quality’ keeper. Fantastic Save - Kept us in the game.
agreed about mcfadden, and hibbert. But i though Jags was a breath of fresh air in the middle, he looked solid and kept the flow of play, something nev just cant do. The back 4 should pick itself now, baines, lescott, yobo and nev.
gutted about loosing manny.
Who can we buy that is creative in the middle of the park now? I dont know of any available players who have his ability.
PS tony newell, chill out, it takes a while to bed new players in and I wouldnt do them all at once, he is just easing them in. PLus he is resting the 18 yr old up front. I doubt macfadden will get a game when we sign the yak.
Consider the positives, people. Baines and Arteta were outstanding. Jagielka and Lescott were excellent after they came on. Anichebe did OK, too. We didn’t give up, in spite of that first-half battering, and came out fighting in the second half. AJ is too good not to find his goal-scoring form again. Cahill will be back before too long. McFadden scored a good goal. We didn’t get beat. The wheels haven’t fallen off at all!
Well I see things this way, forget who was missing, forget the strange starting line up, forget the ’Moyes has improved the team so I don’t care how shite we play’ crap, to me it’s as simple as this, in that team on Saturday we had no players, apart from centre halves, who thrive on balls played long and onto their heads, if we were lucky, so how hard is it for the manager to instruct Howard, the biggest culprit, and the full backs to take every opportunity to play the ball from the back and attempt to play it into the feet of the midfield, specifically Mik and Leon,the footballers who have the ability to create and link up with the forwards who’s strenghths are latching on to through balls and balls to feet not out jumping giant defenders?
When we played it on the deck we created a goal and more chances, (amazingly more so when Vic had come on!). Not exactly rocket science playing to your strengths is it?
Moyes is buying the right sort of players overall but you don’t buy players because they have certain strengths and then not play to them. In my humble opinion anyway.
We need to see more attacking,creating football. Let’s start Pienaar and see what happens?
We need to see more attacking,creating football. Let’s start Pienaar and see what happens?
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