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Deadly Dave's Derby Defeat

By Tony Marsh :  20/10/2007 :  Comments (48) :
As much as I tried this week to remain positive, right now I am on the point of blowing my top Mount Etna style. Forget the referee, the cheating Bastard and analyze the way we played the game.

For a kick off WTF was Moyes doing with the team selection? Once again at right back after stinking the place out all season Hibbert and the very ordinary Jagielka in midfield. No Baines, the only player who offers natural width, and Lescott playing at left back. Fucking pathetic. I know we have got ready made excuses with the referee's shocking display but please don't think we will ever get anywhere playing total Hoofball.

Throughout the entire 90 minutes in this game we didn't have one shot, header or strike of any kind on target apart from the own goal. Not once did Yakubu or Anichebe get a ball played to feet or a ball to run on to from midfield. All they got was headaches from long balls. When they did win a header there was no support from midfield. Is this really how Everton should be playing football ?

Poor passing and ball retention, long balls pumped down the field players who dont look interested [Arteta anyone?]. I would take £12 million the way he is shaping latley. A team so strangled by Moyes and his claustrophobic tactics that none of them look as though they will score a goal ever again from open play. IT'S FUCKING GARBBAGE!!!

Wallow in self pity all you like but the truth is David Moyes is dragging this club in the wrong direction this season. The style of football we play is not going to work in this day and age and today proves it. Letting an average team like Liverpool mug us again at Goodison has sickened me. Any half decent footballing side would of taken them apart today. Watch Arsenal do it next week.

Clattenburg is an out and out shithouse tosser but that's not the only reason we lost the game today. We lost because we are too easy to figure out and can only play one way. It has to change soon and if Moyes can't or won't change it then what we have seen so far this season will only be the start of our misery.

Like I have been saying for years now under Moyes, we are only ever a poor refereeing display away from defeat . We rely on luck and rub of the green to win games and today we got no help. When are we going to out-play someone?

If this is the future and this is what we consider to be progress then I must be watching a different game to the rest of you. How much longer can this go on? Well, by all acounts, another 5 years at least. Now that is a scarey thought....

Reader Comments

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Peter Fearon
1   Posted 20/10/2007 at 16:12:17

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Yes, Clattenberg is a biased, corrupt and incompetent official. Yes, once we were down to ten men the result seemed inevitable. Yes, we should have had the equalizing penalty. But the real reason we lost that match was because we have no bite up front, even after spending record amounts on strikers. Beattie, Johnson and now Yakubu are proving of limited value. Anichebe is still developing and McFadden is misused.

We need a striker and after spending 25 million on three failures it's very frustrating to still have nobody who can remember where the onion bag is. McFadden, incidentally, needs to be playing for Osman, who has a fraction of McFadden's scoring and positional sense. Roll on Cahill's return.

Dawson Boyle
2   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:21:06

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Agree with all your team selection gripes apart from Lescott at leftback.

He played better than anyone today and it would have been a brave man that took him off at half time for Baines.

Jagielka was terrible. He can’t even do the simple stuff.
Ste Boileau
3   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:23:16

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Tony, I completely 100% agree with you. Ive put something similar in the mailbag (if it gets printed).
There will clearly be people who come out and try and defend the great Moysiah after this, to be honest, I cant wait to hear their arguments.
I truly cant be arsed with this style of football anymore. This club is going fu****g nowhere.
Q the Moyes is Great Brigade
Hugh McKillop
4   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:16:36

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I normally think you have some points which I agree with, but today I think you lost the plot. Asides from the first 15 mins we outplayed the reds, outfought them and controlled the game. Even at 10 men we looked more likely to score.

My brother and me a fervent red watched the game together, and whilst we agree with the referee having a stinker (which I will come back to), Everton were the better team.
Our play down the wings was generally good, Lescott overlapping and us finding him, control was generally good and osman was tight and tidy. Things went askew when hibbert was sent off - which I think he should have headed the ball clear long before then, but even then we looked ok.

Back to the ref, if decisions went according to the rules, we would have been 2-0 and cruising, another derby win under our belts and your post would be slightly more upbeat. The ref robbed us, we weren?t outplayed, outfought or anything else. Moyes isn?t to blame for that.

I personally think people like you who don?t want Moyes to continue need to have a look at the team and see how much it has improved and will continue to improve over the coming years under the tutelage of one Mr. David Moyes. No other manager in the premier league has taken a team from border relegation candidates to European football and top 8 finishes on a regular basis, and if there are any who have they have had significant higher budget than us.

So a request, get behind Moyes, give him and the team your full support to the end of the season and then if its time to look for a replacement due to performances/results etc make a plea, but not now!

Ste Boileau
5   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:09:39

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I write this while today's defeat is still raw. Yes we're savaged by terrible refereeing decisions, but hey, as has already been said, what do you expect against this lot? The referees are always going to back the 'BIG 4'.

In my mind though, Clattenburg has given Moyes the perfect cover and the perfect excuse. Everyone is blaming the ref, nobody is looking at Moyes' terrible team selection or his 1988 tactics. WHY WHY is Hiibert still at full back? WHY has Baines all of a sudden been dropped when he looked top class??? I'll tell you why, he attacks too much. Two full backs in central midfield??? Two big strikers up front??? No creativity, no pace, no nothing. The Spanish waiter even branded us 'Long Ball' and to be fair to the twat he was right. Moyes had us bypassing midfield in the hope that something would happen.

IF Victor or Yak (chance would be a fine thing) could hold the ball up who was meant to link up? Neville or Jag???? FFS, it was like Moyes had his fingers crossed and when the own goal came he was thanking his lucky stars.

Todays tactics were a fucking disgrace. The RS are awful and we should have turned them over today. Moyes chose the old style long ball lets hope for a point and we'll all be happy shite.

To be honest I don't give a shite today. I'm taking tons of stick from the RS and I have no response (I refuse to blame the biased ref) . Moyes has let us down today, maybe his neighbours and mates should start giving him shit, he may then know how we feel. I want a change at this club, im sick to shite of this negative, defensive, long ball 80s shite. I cant wait to read Mr Marshs' postings on here. I demand some fucking action.

Ste Boileau
6   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:28:22

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Hugh, if you think that football we played today was acceptable then I despair to the depths we Evertonians have our standards.
They should have been put away, they’re shite.
Im sick of Moyes being given time. What do you expect by the end of the season? We’ll still be shit, and Moyes will still be playing full backs in midfield.
Paul Rigby
7   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:38:56

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Team selection stunk. Usual story - faced with a challenge, Moyes reverted to the crude, the conservative, and the timid. And the result, as usual, was failure. Moyes out.
Tony Hawkins
8   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:49:27

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Whilst I don’t like the extremely negative and "woe is me" approach to your article Tony, I have to agree with much of it’s content. Today was on a par with the Tottenham game last season. Tactics were crap, team selection was crap and all it took was a couple of bad refereeing decisions to turn the game as there was no way a blue shirt was going to score...

...the truth hurts.
Al Dugan
9   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:39:32

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I hope Michael is payng attention to this it goes....I knew we were doomed when we lined up in the tunnel. Is Carsley hurt? Doesnt he usually defend to the absolute death in the every single Derby? We played two...two...two defensive midfielders at home when they didnt have Torres on the team sheet. We played a right back who should be watching the game from amongst the stand. We played exactly one midfielder who could pass the ball to feet and he was usually triple teamed. The Yak had his best game but he needed to be 35 yards from goal to get a ball. We had two weeks to prepare for this game, and that’s what we came up with? Shame on Moyes...Tony is right...he has taken us as far as we can go. The RS were average at best today. Sissoko looked like he had forgotten he was playing a match today. Only Gerrard did anything for them, and the dwarf takes him off????

Clattenberg has a yellow in his hand until Gerrard says something to him...and then he puts the yellow away and goes back pocket??? Watch the tape...that’s what happens!!! They were supposed to stop all the pulling and pushing on corners, but our guy gets hauled down twice and they ignore it...

Tony’s right....we can’t win with these tactics with these players...pass to feet what a concept. Unfortunately it isnt in our bag of tricks and all we can do is sky the ball ten stories up in the air and hope for a knockdown, but if you have two DM’s who are laying back in your defensive third, how are you going to score? How are you going to move the ball around the perimeter of the area?

That was tragic....
Tony Marsh
10   Posted 20/10/2007 at 18:47:49

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Please sober up Mr Sparke and enlighten us all with your wisdom.Tell us how well we played with 3 right backs,3 center halfs and no left back on the pitch.Please tell us all about the amount of chances we squandered in front of goal because of the creativity coming from midfield.How our strikes missed chance after chance in front of goal.[NOT A SINGLE EFFORT ALL DAY FROM ANYONE].Destroy my analysis all you want you drunken fool but the truth is Moyes is killing us as a football side.The team selection was on par with aSunday league manager trying to fit in his bezzie mates and as for the tactics well aSunday league team wouldnt dare play like that.Come on then Kev lets blame the referee the robbing twat.Its nowt to do with Moyes this shambles is it.
Ian Wells
11   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:00:41

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You cant blame 25 million dollars worth of strikers if they dont get the kind of ball to play with. Everton play like an 11 year old schoolboy team. Look at Beattie at Sheff Utd playing to his stren gths with 2 wingers how many goals 9 or 10 is it? moyes hasnt got a clue.
Stephen Stott
12   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:00:48

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As usual Mr Marsh you resort to insults of the most banal kind if everyone should even dare disagree with your twisted comments. Negative, negative, negative that’s all you ever are. Yes I agree at times some of our football is poor but so is most of that served up in ’The Premiership’. I know it shouldn’t be an excuse but that’s the state of it today. Yes champion getting rid of Moyes but not once have I heard you come up with who would replace him (and not insult my intelligence by coming up with names we’d (or anyone else) would have no chance of getting).
Once again I’m appalled at the tone and content of the articles on Toffeeweb you should be ashamed of yoursef.
Al Dugan
13   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:05:57

Report abuse’s the dwarf off the BBC site..

"People talk about a penalty they could have had. But last season we lost here 3-0, two of their goals were fouls and nobody complained then.

What is he talking about? Is he high?

Kuyt should have gone for his challenge, and if it had been Ozzie who made that move...then he would have been gone!

But, we lost that match before we even started...we had two weeks to prepare for it, and Tony’s right....what exactly were we doing with two DM’s no left back and no other player on the entire pitch who could make a pass...that was horrific...Pinnear has got to thinking what do I need to do to stay in the starting 11? He had his best game last time out, and he sits for Ozzie? Moyes is truly done in my eyes, Tony’s is absolutely correct. We have gone as far as we can go with this manager. We can only back up now.
Gary Cowin
14   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:10:54

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Please somone tell me who this feckin Messiah is the????????
Iain Thomson
15   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:07:28

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Obviously gutted about today, good news is Clattenburgh doesnt referee all our games, bad news is Moyes manages them all...

Everyone has said about the team selection, Hibbert must be the white Cafu at training or something. How does he keep his place its staggering. I thought Peinaar was just starting to look the part and was on Artetas wavelength so we put Oschild back in.

I dont even really have a point I just cant bear thought of years and years of more of this.
Kevin Sparke
16   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:12:34

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Apologies Tony, emotion has got the better of me (that and the Guinness)

I’ll repsond when I dry out... but consider one point which is obvious to anyone who thinks about the game. Baines is a fine attacking skillfull fullback... but count how many times he gets caught out of position in a game, count how many times he loses possession, count how many passes go astray... Would you REALLY have played him ahead of Lescott?

I retract the Knobhead quip and offer an apology
Connor Rohrer
17   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:05:45

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I was a mixed day for Moyes today. His team selection was weird as I would have picked a different team and it showed for the first 15 minutes. We couldn’t get near Liverpool physically and couldn’t keep the ball on the floor. But he did change it for the best. Osman moved onto Mascherano and we controlled the game. Yes you could say Baines should have been playing but Lescott was immense and his pace, strength and defensive abilities troubled Liverpool and gave us width and a perfect outlet down the left hand side.

So in that respect I thought Moyes tactics worked well but as Tony said we did rely on the long ball for most of the game. I was very effective and Anichebe and Yakubu where a handful but if we are going to progress we need
to keep the ball on the floor. And Moyes substitution timings also need to be criticized. Why bring Baines on when the midfield is wearing out. Pienaar would have been my choice as he is naturally a midfielder and can run a players something we where in desperate need of.

So while I don’t agree it was all Moyes’s fault he defo needs to improve and the way his team plays and his substitutions. Tony is right about Arteta. He was mostly innefective, ran into blind alleys and didn’t get involved as much as a player of his talent should. I wouldn’t get rid of him by any means but his performances need to improve. Osman may get stick but something he does is go looking for the ball which Arteta doesn’t. Yes he loses it but he always makes himself available instead of staying out wide and waiting for the ball to come to him.

Anyway, this is the big challenge now. With Cahill, Vaughan, Gravesen and Johnson on there way back we will have our strongest squad and this should give us an idea where we actually are at this current time and where we are going. Lets hope we improve because we need too.
Ste Boileau
18   Posted 20/10/2007 at 19:20:33

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If Baines was caught out of position and gives the all away as much as you say then he would surely play every week. Hibbert Does.

Baines is a left back, Lescott is a centre half. There was nothing in the back 4 today that made me think that Baines doesnt deserve his place. Another player who will no doubt suffer under this Moyes regeime. He’ll go from the U21 full back to an outcast in 18 months, mark my words
Al Dugan
19   Posted 20/10/2007 at 20:01:09

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I have been balsting Tony for weeks...but did anybody watch the first 35 mins of that thing and think we were going to win...our only shot on goal all day was Hyypia’s...we should sign hm in the Jan window. He’s got a fine touch in front of goal. TONY IS RIGHT...we lost that game with the lineup and the tactics. The RS were horrible. Horrible, and yet they won the match. C’mon, I hae been a defender of Moyes forever, but that was too much to stomach. Is he kidding with that lineup? I hate to tell everyone, but Victor ain’t what you call a natural goal scorer...
Alex Baker
20   Posted 20/10/2007 at 20:56:47

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Whilst the loss is excruciating, the way in which we lost is even worse. I do like Moyes, but his team selection and tactics do leave a lot to be desired. I do not believe Moyes should be sacked, but he definately needs to evolve his tactics and play ourbrand of hoofball only when we have exhausted all other avenues. Mabye with players returning from injury our style will improve... but don’t get your hopes up.
Jack Baker
21   Posted 20/10/2007 at 21:20:50

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Liverpool are the jammiest, cheating team that ever saw the face of the earth!
David Barks
22   Posted 20/10/2007 at 21:05:24

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In past games Tony has had a point about the way we played, but today he is dead wrong. It wasn’t a penalty, so we should have still been up 1-0 and had equal men on the pitch as them. To just say forget about that is just stupid. Lescott was causing them problems down the left all day until we went a man down, which was a complete error by the referee as he could not have seen a foul. It was a shirt pull from the front if anything and the official was behind the play. So he called a penalty without seeing a foul and sent the man off for it after some instruction from Gerrard. We were passing the ball around after the opening 10 minutes. We were the better team until we went a man down, that’s the truth. Lescott was being played in behind the defense all day down the left hand side. That wasn’t hoofball, it was good passing.

I was in shock with the team selection, but in the end it didn’t lose us the game, the official did. We had two clear penalties waved away, so even if their two goals stand we should have had two penalties to go along with the goal we already had, meaning a score line of 3-2 in our favor. Kuyt attempted a Bruce Lee tackle and only received a yellow. How you can say that the official didn’t cost us that game is just unbelievable. It’s like I have said before, you and Richard Dodd are the exact same type of people just on different sides, both extremists who will never admit anything in favor of the other side no matter how glaringly obvious it was. We were absolutely mugged today, pure and simple.

True we didn’t get shots through to goal, but we were down a man after 52 minutes of the game, and at the time we lost that man we were looking very threating to score a second. We had a few headers from corners and crosses go just over the bar, and Yakubu had a shot go just outside the post. We had a few corners in a row to start the second half, the commentators were even saying Everton were looking far better, passing the ball well and look likely to get another goal any minute, but then Hibbert blew it and let Gerrard in behind him allowing the referee to give the lead away. I was furious with Hibbert, am sick of Moyes being so stubborn with his selection. But it still wasn’t a penalty and the referee had no intention of sending him off until Gerrard whispered something in his ear reminding him of some type of agreement I’m sure. It was a fix, I’m sure of it, and I’m not usually one for conspiracy theories. But today every single decision went their way and two glaringly obvious penalties for us were disallowed with the official having a clear view of both of them.
Neil Pearse
23   Posted 20/10/2007 at 20:53:48

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Sorry Tony, but this is just a knee-jerk anti-Moyes rant. The reality is we outplayed the reds for nearly the whole match. Apart from playing Hibbert, Moyes got the selections right, and out-thought Benitez. Liverpool were very very lucky to win today, and they know it. It seems like you can only be negative about Moyes. And when you are in that mood, you are simply not worth reading. Like this time.
Tony Swain
24   Posted 20/10/2007 at 20:49:53

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Got to vent my spleen in regards to the game this morning (NZ time.) While I have had time to calm down as I was boiling after this game, I still feel sick in the stomach at the result of this game. Liverpool were shite and in the first half especially they were there for the taking. Pointless saying anything about the team selection as it’s all been said already. Suffice to say that any manager who plays a full back who is obviously well off form and has lost his confidence and plays midfiielders who should be either in the reserves or playing at full back, in a game of this magnitude, should be told to find another job. No excuses. It’s so effing obvious it’s almost funny. But to inflict such a dire standard of football against anyone, let alone the RS is a bloody insult to this club and the supporters who expect an intelligent level of football to be played the blues. I saw no intelligent football, no wall passes, no decent through balls, no runs at defenders, no trying to hold the ball when we were 1-0 up and the shite were looking dissjointed. Think about it, did the RS really win this game, or did we hand it to them before kick off. If this is the what we have to suffer for another five years.......WTF, I don’t know, frustration might get the better of me. I hope not. I love Everton and I love being part of it’s supporters, but we are being seriously let down here. How much more of this can we stomach.?????
Arthur jones
25   Posted 20/10/2007 at 21:43:27

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You lot are all so good at picking teams and deciding the tactics that we play I’m amazed that Bill kenwright hasn’t been banging on your doors and offering you David Moyes job , it must be an easy one from what I have read from some of your really fascinating posts .
We’ve just been robbed of a positive result against a team thats unbeaten this season , a team that we actually battered for 75 minutes , a team that in the last 5 years has spent 5 times as much as Moyes has had at his disposal , a team that we are better than !!! Think back to Walter Smith’s , Mike Walker’s and Kendall(3) teams , they were shite , we were relegation fodder every season , now we’re not , we were missing the 2 players who scored 3 goals against the RS last season , don’t you think if they were available we would have beaten them ? and with James Vaughan missing that never changed the course of the game or our season to date ?
Short memories , ...oh yes , I am certain that if this website was running in 1985 there would have been someone who would have found a reason to sack kendall , sell Peter Reid , and moan that Andy Gray never scored enough goals ,
Tony Marsh
26   Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:16:53

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David of course the Ref played his part in todays defeat but what I am trying to say is it goes much deeper than that.We ask for trouble by continuing playing players who stink the place out each week.The team which took to the field today consisted of 3 center halfs,3 right backs,no left back and a midfield over loaded with plodders.No width no creativity and no goal threat.Who picked that side?Wheres Da Silva?Surely a 6ft 2 Brazilian who can put himself about would do a better job than Neville or Jagielka./>HOOfball played all day long apart from some nice pases to Lescoott on the left but not one single effort on goal all match from anyone but Hypia.Please dont tell me that was the Refs fault.Oh by the way we got 2 pens against Kharkiv and it didnt do us any good mate.Your right about one thing its not Moyes,s fault any more its Kenwrights for Keeping DMin a job
Dutch Schaffaer
27   Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:46:09

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I didn’t bother to read his comment but I’m sure what Tony Marsh is saying is absolutely correct.

After all he was spot on when he called Lescott the new Kroldrup and recently when he claimed Yakubu would be an Everton legend.
Brian Waring
28   Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:38:58

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Tony,it doesn’t matter how hard you try mate,there is going to always going to be the fans who think the sun shines out of Moyes’ arse.He fucked up today!How negative have we got to be till some fans see how tactically inept Moyes’ is?By the way Tony,where about in Huyton where you from?I was originally from Huyton house road,the Moss.
Neil Pearse
29   Posted 20/10/2007 at 22:54:44

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Brian, how can Moyes have "fucked up" today when we outplayed Liverpool for most of the game and probably would have won without the ref? Did you see the game? Perhaps you decided what you thought without bothering to watch it (easier that way for you)?

I have been critical of Moyes and his tactics often enough in the past, but today he actually got it right and we should have won.

The other thing I feel proud of tonight as an Evertonian is that we do not have corrupt, cheating or violent players, and have a manager who is a decent and honest man. This makes us different from the shite. And I think it counts for something.
Tony Marsh
30   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:09:22

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Yep I know Brian that Dutch fella is as thick as two short planks and keeps bringing the same old shit up which has nuthin to do with todays game.I am sure he fancies Moyes.I come from St Johns end of Huyton Br iLived on Huyton Lane
and Mosscroft as well.Quiet Mans my local
Brian Waring
31   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:10:44

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Neil,I was there at goodison mate.We were the home side but lined up so negative.You can’t tell me that you are happy with Jags and Neville in midfield?(and don’t say that when Cahill and Grav arte back everything will be sweet)I like you Neil,I have an opinion on what I see.And if we went for it from the start ,I would have probalby been doing cart-wheels now.The shite were there for the taking and we lined up so negative,it was un-believable.
John Cottee
32   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:34:01

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Tony I’m just wondering if you still think Yakubu is going to be an Everton legend? Because to be honest as big money signings go Yakubu so far has been awful.
Neil Pearse
33   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:32:42

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No Brian, the shite weren’t "there for the taking". On this occasion, and believe it or not partly because of Moyes’ selections and tactics, we rattled them and made them look ordinary. You think that Liverpool playing so badly today had nothing to do with Everton playing pretty well?

I am unhappy with Jags and Neville in midfield, but today there was little alternative given injuries, it made sense in the heat of a derby, and without Clattenburg it would have worked.

All I am asking is that we give credit when it is due, and criticise when that is due too. Today Moyes and the team in my opinion are more deserving of credit and criticism. For the Kharkiv games it was the other way around. Do you really think we played as badly today as against Kharkiv? You sound like you see the performances as just the same.
34   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:41:15

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Loved the comment about Baines by Kevin Sparke. And people say Hibbo is poor. Just goes to show we all blame our least liked players say fuck all about the ones we like even if they are shite. We lost a game today and the players you either love or hate will be on the park thursday if we win they will be great Draw or lose and we are back to blaming the ones we dont like and saying fuck all about those we do like. Thats football folks .. blame the tea lady i say.
Brian Waring
35   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:38:04

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Neil,we didn’t play as bad as against Kharkiv.(obviously,we couldn’t play that bad again)But the shite were there for the taking.They have had a few bad weeks,so why didn’t we go for it from start with an attacking line-up instead of the usual suspects in midfield(we keep getting told this is the best squad since the 80s).At the end of the day we got beat.Some people had a go, when some fans said that we were lucky to be beat Boro because they were the better footballing side,and we were told that it is the result that matters.Well enough said.
Neil Pearse
36   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:55:04

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Fine, Brian, good to debate with you! We are all gutted by this result. At least we do not have scum like Gerrard, Carragher, Benitez and Kuyt associated with our great club. (See Kuyt grin and say "I was glad it wasn’t red" - because he knew damn well it should have been?).

I was proud of the boys and manager today, even though we lost. The reputations of no one associated with Everton Football Club suffered today. Which is not the case for LFC, their captain(s), manager, and their referee Mr Clattenbug. Good night all!
John Rowland
37   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:55:44

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If we all believed the marsh posts there would be empty goodisons week after generally defy your hatred of the club take note and be bloody constuctive just once in a while and prepare yourself for win lose or draw in any game .it can happen no matter what
when we win one you seem to be incognito lose one and your full of hate .go figure
kevin Sparke
38   Posted 21/10/2007 at 00:00:33

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I like Baines - he’s an exciting prospect, he’s got good pace, nice ball control and looks a classy full back.... but he’s caught out of position too often; as a consequence whoever is playing centre-back has to drift to the flanks to cover his ass, as his forays up the wing and inside leave massive gaps for a team who can knock quick accurate ball forward.

If he did his job and defended, I’d like him even better .... he’s not the finished article... far from it. Lescott is a far better Left back than Baines

Tony Marsh
39   Posted 20/10/2007 at 23:59:07

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John Cottee... no I dont think Yakubu will become a legend not a fucking chance with that Gormless manager of ours.Like many other players past and present under Moyes he will shrivel up and die.Starved of any meaningfull service
he will go by the wayside just Like Koldrup,Davies,ADVM,Da Silva,Johnson,
Beattie and many others.You see John when you have a manager as clueless as
DM players tend to get fed up with listening to them.Jumped up PE teachers have no place in the PL but you seem to think its ok.Yakubu is a 20 goals a sesaon man untill Deadly Dave gets hold of him .Same applies to AJ and look at Beattie now.It was Moyes who signed Yakubu so what is your point.By slagging off Yakubu you are slagging off Moyes .You see John you start of trying to be clever but end up looking a tit.Yakubu is a Moyes signing that has gone terribly wrong because Moyes doesnt have the ability to use him correctly.You make me laugh.You are in effect calling Yakubu shite yet exonorating
DM from any blame.Do you actually understand football mate.
Al Dugan
40   Posted 21/10/2007 at 03:52:46

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If any of our supporters don’t think Hibbo took down Gerrard that you should have your season ticket revoked...he stood in the center of the field like a statue then had to run like crazy just to get a handful of shirt before kneeing Gerrard in the thigh...the only question was the ball in playing distance for Gerrard as they was a clear penalty, as clear as Lescott’s duece...Clattenberg had the yellow out first and then Gerrard said something and the red came out of the back pocket...

Who lost the thread on the last goal? Was it Baines? How did that first cross get in?
Dave wilson
41   Posted 21/10/2007 at 07:45:34

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Why are people complaining about decisions costing us the derby game ? Twas ever f.....g thus
If we’ve learned one thing over the years we cant rely on officials giving us anything against this lot, clottenburgers display can only be added to the list
Tony’s attack on Moyes borders on hatred and he need to remember and be eternally grateful that DM came along when we looked like we were sinking forever,
That said there is no doubting the validity of Tony’s argument. When the team flashed across the screen in the springy yesterday the whole alehouse winced
Surely even Tony will agree Moyes came at the right time, but its no longer backs to the wall perenial dog fights.Its time for Everton to express a huge thanks to DM - theres a perfect job at Bolton for him now - pay him off and lets get the sort of guy who will take us to the next level . . . . .

hold on a second guys, who are we goig to get ?

Hughes ; slaughtered by all for his style of play and usually finishes below Moyes anyway

Oneil / Big Sam : play crash bang wallop

Coppel : dont know if you’ve noticed but Reading are Everton Mark 2

Whilst I agree that Evertonia deserves / demands a more attractive brand of footy
until some one can come up with a credible, and I mean credible, alternative we may as well stick with the guy who is more likely to finish 5th /6th than any of the ones mentioned
dont come on with problems, we all know what they are, come on with solutions, Name these " better alternatives"
Barry Bragg
42   Posted 21/10/2007 at 10:17:37

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The following quotes are taken from the Times Online website. Tony Marsh needs to forget his personal vendetta against Moyes and open his fucking eyes.

’Moyes?s feelings were heightened by the fact his side were superior for large swathes of play. Everton had the best disciplinary record in the Premier League at kick-off and took the initiative through football that balanced aggression with control’

Everton were still dominant when the second period began but paid for their eagerness to score a second goal’

Balanced controlled and attacking football. We might not have created much but we controlled the game and untill the intervention of Clattenberg we were never in trouble.

’Supporters’ like Marsh are 10 a penny. He may be an Evertonian but I doubt he is worth 2 Liverpudlians never mind 20.

Neil McKinney
43   Posted 21/10/2007 at 11:11:24

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Good post Dave Wilson! Summed up much of what is going through my mind.

We looked ok yesterday until TH got sent packing. It’s not total football but we were actually passing the ball around. I like Baines and I think he will turn out to be a gem for us, but what’s all this crap about not picking a left back? LESCOTT WAS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE PARK!

Maybe Moyes can’t take us to the next level of free flowing football, but I fail to see who we are going to attract that, wiithout considerable investment, is going to be any better. At the moment Moyes has earned the right to continue and it would be a crime to sack him based on yesterdays game. Forget the refereeing decisions? What!

Gerrard bought the penalty! The only contact was outside the area and while Hibbert was the last man, it was clear that MC was not going to send him off until Gerrard remonstrated. Weak referee!!

Don’t get me started on Carragher! How can he berate and abuse the referee as much as he did, show as much dessent as he did and not get a card? When he eventually did, MC still had to book McFadden to even it up! Disgraceful!

I saw a more solid performance yesterday until the first penalty and I would have liked to have seen the outcome if we’d have kept 11 on the pitch.

The Moyes haters can’t help themselves and are champing at the bit to get on here and slag him off. I agree with some of the points they make but don’t see an immediate solution. Sacking Moyes is certainly not it! I don’t think Moyes’s job should be protected for ever because of what he has acheived here, but it should certainly not end based on that abomination yesterday.
Paul Harrington
44   Posted 21/10/2007 at 12:40:34

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I’m afraid Mr marsh needs to take a reality check. Apart from Arsenal, Man Utd & possibly Man City under Sven the rest of the premiership sides serve up the same poor quality fare every week. Is it any surprise that most of the ’skill’ players are from abroad. The English game is mired in mediocrity from top to bottom and until major changes are made to the administration and coaching sides of the game then the players produced will remain technically inferior to those from abroad. The game was lost yesterday not because of Moyes, Hibbert or the tea lady but as a result of an appalling referee and players who think that cheating is the way to play the game. Until English football game looks seriously at how other sports referee their games, the conducy exepected from the players and changes its financing then all fans will find themselves on the end of the the disgrace witnessed yesterday. Football is stuck in the dark ages and the only winners are the big 4 who continue to f**k over the rest for an easy buck. How many more years will this happen before the rest of the game wakes up and smells the coffee.
Neil Styles
45   Posted 21/10/2007 at 13:52:05

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This article is a fine example of Mr Marsh and like minded anti-Moyes types using any opportunity they can get to riduclue our manager.
Our boys were wonderful out there yesterday. Up until Hibbo’s harsh sending off, we were downright comfortable against the reds. The manager and the team in spite of being down to ten men got it spot on for the remainder of the game and we would have got a highly deserved point had it not been for Clattenburg committing the footballing equivalent of rape. So tell it like was, our lads were fantastic!
Arthur Jones
46   Posted 21/10/2007 at 13:26:01

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I think the posts by Dave Wilson and Paul Harrington are spot on; there are no real footballing tems in the Prem besides Arsenal, to a lesser extent Man Utd. I can?t really comment on City as they?ve only had this team for 10 games and have been lucky in certain ones.

There are a lot of Everton clones in this division and by the end of the season I will be surprised if we are not in the top 6 again. We DID play some good football yesterday, don?t forget the only goal the RS have conceded away from home was a penalty. The majority of pundits, jorno?s and commentators have even agreed that the least Everton deserved was a draw.

Do you not think that when Tommy G and TC return then the Yak and AJ are going to get better service? Or is that too easy to conveniently forget for the Moyes haters? When these two return, does it not follow that Mikel is less likely to get triple marked? Thus giving hm more time and space to operate his skills.

Trying to hold Beattie up as an example as a player who was "dragged down" by Moyes tactics... he?s playing in a lower division , Even Brett Angell and Stewie Barlow scored sheds full of goals when they dropped down so that's no great reason to say he?s suddenly become a world beater.

As has been said before, David Moyes saved Everton from oblivion, I can?t see "the special one" , Arsene , Fabio Cappello or even Gus Hiddink wanting to come to Everton, the other options will just want a massive paypacket to get us to finish , what ... in the top 6? DM already does that!

If you want an example of what changing your manager in midstream just because a few bitter-minded fans don?t like him, just look at the Championship , there are loads of teams there with long histories scraping around , Sheff Wed, Wolves, Leeds... is that what you want?

Vincent Siow
47   Posted 21/10/2007 at 14:38:39

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I do agree with some of Tony’s pts, especially the fact that Carsley was dropped. He was our hero last year, and it must hurt for him watchin another incompetent performance from Jagielka. He can’t pass, can’t hold the ball, and often is guilty of either being caught in possesion or giving it away cheaply.

That said, we all know we were cheated yesterday and I think we outplayed the Reds. It will become better when Tommy and Cahill comes back, which should be pretty soon.
seany blue
48   Posted 22/10/2007 at 19:00:15

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I havnt been one of your fans and some of your comments to be honest pissed me off, but i have to agree with most of your points, we are still playing in a very negative way, hoofball is just not good enough for any premier club let alone our massive club,and hibbert still playing at right back is just fucking shocking, not to mension jags and nev who arent midfielders playing week in week out there... However lesscot playing at left back was a excellent choice and well as stubbsy who had played well, yak also had a very good game, looked strong quick and his touch was also good, vic had a poor game in my opinion plus i just feel he is just not ready to play 90minutes in the bigtime and he seems much more affective from the bench....but our style has to change, tiny tim is comming back and i only feel that when he does play we seem to pley the ball even longer???? Are only hope is to get the likes of piennar graveson arteta start playing in the team more regular as these players want the ball want the responsibility but i feel moyes wont play these players in the first 11 due to their lack of defensive duties, i can only feel sorry for the yak because if thats the service he will be getting for the rest of the season he has no cahnce of getting into double figures...... moyes has ran out of fuel and is now running on fumes..time for a change??? maybe

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