Why not, as Joe Royle did in very different circumstances, say that we are going to take both? His comments about how hard the Q/F cup draw away to the mighty West Ham will be (I think he even said they will be pleased with the draw) were symptomatic of a man who, after almost 6 years, seems not to be understand Blues fans at all.
A club like Everton lives and dies by the length of its honours board ? yes even the Carling Cup. If not, then we become something else ? more of a Charlton or Reading ? sides who are simply happy, like Moyes, to tick off top-ten finishes year-in and year-out until their luck runs out.
As Blues fans we live for those very rare moments when the final whistle goes and you experience the sheer joy of being there at a key moment in the club's history. No amount of 6th place or even 4th place finishes will ever replace those moments and in the end they count for nothing anyway.
All this brings me to the title of this article. When will Moyes deliver his watershed moment which signifies that there is a real chance of glory? In 85 it was the victory at Spurs; in 87 it was, for me anyway, the victory at Arsenal; and in 95 it was left as late as the semi-final against Spurs. All of the above victories have two things in common: they gave fans and players a real belief that we could go on and win the ultimate prize, and crucially they were achieved away from home.
To win a cup this season, we will simply have to deliver one of these key victories and WHU is good a place as any for Moyes to deliver. It's time he showed the same desire and hunger as the fans ? he is not a bloody accountant for gods sake ? and if he wants to be remembered as anything but a transition figure he has to win a trophy!
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1 Posted 04/11/2007 at 22:09:21
Moyes has failed to live up to it, despite now having the players and the resources (far, far more than Joe Royle ever had) to out-perform even his modest achievements.
I too am still waiting for that watershed. I remain to be convinced that this will be the season for the reasons you state: Moyes shows far to much respect to opposing teams and wastes his breath praising the achievemnets of their managers... we need to be taking teams apart, not pussy-footing around bowing, nodding, and shaking hands in the gentleman’s club that is the Premier League also-rans.
2 Posted 04/11/2007 at 22:13:06
3 Posted 04/11/2007 at 22:37:56
Also, a manager has every single word he utters scrutinised, deconstructed and in some cases dissembled... I think some of you lot are tilting your lances at windmills again.
For example; I read yesterday on here that ?the manager had been looking to play the game out to a 1-0 win?... only someone with a predetermined anti-moyes agenda could have written that as it patently does not represent what happened. Everton pressed but were sloppy in front of goal and did not turn dominance and chances into goals... they did not sit back on their lead, they did not settle for 1-0, the instructions to do so did not come from the manager... so why pretend it did?
We?re playing better footy, winning and are still involved in every competition we?ve entered. It?s not perfect and I want better... but lets give credit where credit is due.
4 Posted 04/11/2007 at 22:32:06
Five years ago I was praying for a couple of seasons of mid table mediocrity just to ease the pain of sleepless nights about relegation. It’s too early and too much of a yo yo ride with Moyes to say we are now an established top ten side. Although I now sleep much better we really do need to at least be threatening to win a trophy. Remember the feeling you had travelling to elland road and wembley in 95, it just can’t be beaten.
5 Posted 04/11/2007 at 22:41:41
6 Posted 04/11/2007 at 23:11:03
You’re easily pleased !
I thought it was the usual anti Moyes glass half empty drivel myself.
7 Posted 04/11/2007 at 23:03:25
The faintest possibility of trips to Wembley may encourage some to buy a season ticket in order to have greater priority for tickets and that means more money up front.
For me, the thought of getting to a final and not having a sporting chance of a ticket makes me break out in a cold sweat, hell, it’s not like we get there every year is it?
I came away from the match yesterday floating on air, no voice, I could barely muster a squeak all night, (’im indoors was made up!) but wow, what a way to finish a game. COYB.
8 Posted 05/11/2007 at 00:41:35
9 Posted 05/11/2007 at 02:00:56
"Promise low and deliver high"
Moyes is using this, what if Moyes comes out and says we are going to win the league cup this year and then fails at the quarter final stage, the nay sayers will be after his blood again. The poor man is damned if does and damned if he doesn’t in some of your eyes.
I would far sooner see a long term plan than short term gain and in Moyes five and a half years here the plan seems to be in place.
Moyes said at the beginning of the season that he wants silverware. I for one do believe that he is targeting the league and possibly the FA cup this year but surely it would be imprudent to broadcast this.
10 Posted 05/11/2007 at 03:41:51
"We were not doing enough but we were not having to do too much. I just expected us to see the game out..." ? from the man himself, apparently. Apology humbly accepted.
11 Posted 05/11/2007 at 08:04:49
It depends on your reading of the verb ’expect’
EG I expect to get socks and rubbish aftershave from my mum in law this Xmas.
Expect in this context means ’it will probably happen’
England expects that every man shall do his duty
Expect in this context means ’They better had do their duty as it is required of them’
I rather think that Moyes had the first context in mind, especially as he had pre modified the sentence with the clause ’We were not doing enough’ suggesting that he wanted them to do more and from the evidence of his body language and waving his arms in a forward motion to the midfield on countless occasions - he expected them to do more...
You are using semantics and sophistry to back up a very shaky argument... and perhaps I’m doing the same - so you get half an apology... which is probably what you expected.
12 Posted 05/11/2007 at 09:25:56
As for the main arguement, I would love to see us win a cup, but as people keep having a go at Moyes for yo-yo seasons, surely a consistent top 8 finish every season would be much more appreciated.
If I remember rightly, Boro got to the final the year they were relegated. Now if it came down to a Cup or a regulary top 6 finish I know which I would choose.
13 Posted 05/11/2007 at 09:32:32
Also I’d rather be secure in the premier league than win a cup - and I’m sure financially it makes more sense. Didn’t we only narrowly miss relegation in 95?
Not trying to undermine Royle I think he did a great job - especially the 6th in 96 - and it was a real shame he left as had he carried on I think he would have steadied our sinking ship - as Moyes had to 10 years later
14 Posted 05/11/2007 at 09:56:46
15 Posted 05/11/2007 at 09:53:39
reading your mental fencing is a bit like watching the big lebawski. at the end of it you realize nothing happened and you are back where you started. i’m off for a cuppa.
16 Posted 05/11/2007 at 09:54:21
Oh, by the way, who are the last club outside the ’Big 4’ to win the F.A. Cup? Or to finnish in the top 4? Us, on both occasions. Which only goes to prove that whilst Moyes hasn’t brought silverware back to the trophy room yet, neither have the other clubs, and they’ve been waiting even longer and some spending considerably more in it’s pursuit. We need the money a high league position provides in order to compete at the top on a consistent basis. That’s actually what this club is all about. Winning the Carling Cup then going into obscurity for another ten years - that’s what I expect of Middlesboro or Blackburn. Form is temporary and class is permanent and this club should be about the pursuit of excellence
17 Posted 05/11/2007 at 10:24:58
Like it or not that’s life today and no point in asking Moyes to accomplish what he cannot...........none of the others despite All of them (except Blackburn) having rich benefactors, can achieve this either,
The league’s all about having the most money...............I think it would be monumetal if Moyes made Europe again, it means we’ve come first or second in the achievable leqague
Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the title back at Goodison...................let’s be pragmatic, dream of glory but live in reality.
Only a mega rich Bluenoes can deliver what we all want.................not even Jose could do it without mega money, and I bet he’ll never repeat his Porto adventures anywhere else............Money money money...........it’s a rich man’s world
18 Posted 05/11/2007 at 09:45:20
19 Posted 05/11/2007 at 12:22:49
If you would prefer flleting cup success to a consistent top 6 finish then good look to you.
I would love us to win a cup, but realise full well, that it is not a sign of improvement aswith a bit of luck and a good draw can get you through to a semi or sometimes a final.
League position is the indicator of performance and as such a consistent top 6 finish would show how far we have come & make us more attractive to others who can see our potential
20 Posted 05/11/2007 at 12:06:06
?Moyes is boring, Moyes is unimaginative, Moyes can?t prioritise between his leagues and his cups...?
We?re just behindthe RS in the Lge, we?re in quarter finals of the calring cup, we?re top of our UEFA lge and we?re playing good football + scoring goals. I can?t remember the last time we had 5 decent strikers that could all score a goal. Our strike force is genuinely excellent.
Had Moyes not come along we might well have been relegated cos that?s where we heading after 2 final day escapes. Let?s remember that. We?ve seen genuine progress under Moyes but all some pratts can do it pick a hole in his every action or statement. What about his comments of ?I?m looking to strengthen in January?? Isn?t that exciting? Which creative midfielder will he unearth?
But ?Moyes is unamibitious? is a better story isn?t it?
21 Posted 05/11/2007 at 12:50:15
22 Posted 05/11/2007 at 12:48:53
23 Posted 05/11/2007 at 12:54:16
Finishing in the top 6 probably is more important to those that run the club than winning the league cup. To us fans it’s different though, and that’s where the problem is here. I’d love it if we won a cup this year, and in fact i’d rather us win a cup and finish 10th in the league than to simply finish in the top 6. Moyes, however, has a different perspective - one that none of us on here truly grasp. After all, we’re not managers.
24 Posted 05/11/2007 at 13:23:26
Sorry Michael but that is only true in pure numbers but completely inaccurate in terms of our comparitive spending against rival clubs.
When we were buying the likes of Kanchelskis, Barmby, Short, Ferguson etc the British record stood at £8.5m for Collymore (which we matched!), it is now over £30m and we’ve only spent over £10m once.
25 Posted 05/11/2007 at 13:52:04
I lived off the cup final win 1995 long enough but now my patience is wearing thin. I have nothing against the manager and we have progressed in the five years under him, but not a sniff of a trophy. The top six finishes have been an admirable achievement following the stress inducing times of Mike Walker and Walter Smith, but the only cups that have appeared anywhere near goodison belonged to that shower of shit across the park.
Its simply not good enough for a team of our stature.
26 Posted 05/11/2007 at 16:53:46
Get a grip you dickheads, how many clubs recently have qualified for europe & then had a nightmare season the following year (Everton included after we finished 4th!) its like taking one step forward & two back.
I’m a million per cent behind Moyes’s statement that the league is the main priority.
Confidence breeds confidence which breeds success, if your struggling & under performing in league then you will be shit in cups. This whole piece & some of the comments after stink of people who just pick wholes in everything, I’m the 1st to admit we’re not the finished article (far from it) but we are getting there. Learning from our mistakes & challenging on all fronts, at the same time our football is improving, we are scoring goals and to a normal fan it is exciting times at goodison but obviously not for all!!!
27 Posted 05/11/2007 at 20:43:34
COME ON YOU BLUES!!!!
28 Posted 05/11/2007 at 23:09:35
We may not win them all but I would like to see us be confident and pay no respect to anybody, let them worry. We have enough people who can score a goal now. Hope we get Liverpool in the Carling semi.
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