Wessels Hibbert Jagielka Lescott Valente Pienaar (Vidarsson 68) Graveson (Rodwell 79) Carsley McFadden Johnson (Vaughan 67) Anichebe
The team that played against Oldham yesterday that, for some people, is proof concrete that we have a ?crap? squad with no depth: Wessels Hibbert Jagielka Stubbs Baines (Lescott 73) Pienaar Graveson (Anichebe 62) Carsley McFadden Johnson Vaughan (Yakubu 63)
A comparison of the two games?
Defence: three out of five who started yesterday played against AZ. By the end of yesterday?s game, four of the five defenders who played against Alkmaar were on the pitch. Given the fact that Yobo is both injured and leaving for the ANC shortly, it made perfect sense to afford Stubbs and Barnes a run-out against Oldham after their injury lay-off to improve their match fitness. Taking a straw poll from this website, Baines is the preferred left back over Valente.
Midfield: player for player, exactly the same.
Attack: Vaughan for Anichebe ? both are highly regarded, so nothing too traumatic there.
As I?ve repeated elsewhere, the team sent out yesterday was more than capable of getting a result against Oldham. The changes were not so drastic as some have tried to claim that it completely disrupted the team?s cohesion. They have played together before and would have done so in training during the week. They simply didn?t perform to a standard one could have expected.
Before the AZ game, with the group secured, people on this site called for Moyes to give the second string and fringe players a run out. He did. The team won. Yesterday?s home tie offered Moyes the opportunity in our busy schedule to do the same. He did. The team lost.
People have every right to be disappointed at such an embarrassing loss, but I think too many are using it as an opening to condemn Moyes and the club, attributing to both qualities I do not recognize in either. It is as if there is a competition amongst some fans to be the most indignant as a means to demonstrate your ?True Blue credentials?. For me, it is nothing less than hysterical over-reaction.
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1 Posted 06/01/2008 at 11:11:19
Also,why are the fans who have vented their anger on ToffeeWeb over this defeat getting slaughterd if they have a go at Moyes for it?At the end of the day he sends the side out, so in my opinion the buck stops with him.
Moyes has been excellent so far this season, and has deserved all of the praise heaped on him. But he should not be immune from criticism when he fucks up and, in my opinion, he fucked up big-style yesterday.
2 Posted 06/01/2008 at 11:45:28
Sat behind the goal, I couldn't believe he didn't get a hand to the ball. I have since watched the goal on TV and he hardly gets his feet off the ground. Top this off with dodgy kicking, flapping at crosses, and generally looking ill at ease. I've got to say that on this performance and the others I have seen I'm not sure who is worse ? Richard Wright or Stefan Wessels!!
Definitely David Moyes made a howler by not playing Howard. If he had of done I'm convinced we would still be in the cup.
3 Posted 06/01/2008 at 12:37:48
To simply throw on all our strikers leaving only Carsley in midfield on his own was ridiculous. Could you imagine Manchester Utd or Chelsea in a similar situation?? I would imagine they would keep their shape and keep attempting to pass their way through a team, not simply hoofing the ball up to four strikers. Let's hope we get back to winning ways against chelsea.
4 Posted 06/01/2008 at 13:39:04
And I agree our first eleven is a match for anyone but a sqaud are not, Moyes needs to get some quality in, what happend to this Vogel?
If anyone needs a rest its got to be Carsley. I don't actually blame team selection on this defeat, I blame the players and manager for not taking this game serious enough against a team who couldn?t believe their luck when they was handed our team sheet, so I suppose team selection does come into it. But these Premier League players just don't give the respect to players in the lower leagues and putting weakend teams out will only serve to see more upsets in domestic cups. That is were I put the blame ? big time charlie Premier League players who can't get motivated against first and second division players. Pick your strongest team and have respect and you rarely see these cup upsets, maybe one but not four on the same day and still five ties to play today.
5 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:04:13
6 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:08:13
Moyes played a decent side, good enough for the premiership........the cup throws up huge shocks always has always will, maybe it?s the ?we don?t have to try too hard? subconcious mentality of some players versus the ?chance of a lifetime? adrenalin rush of the Oldham boys...........I?ve got two words for some of you......GROW UP!
7 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:19:25
8 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:17:39
OLDHAM at home, the draw couldn’t have been kinder for us and with another 7 premier sides going out it could have been another good chance for a decent cup run.
Embarassing display from Everton Football Club and a big let down to the fan’s.
Hibbert MOM!!! What plantpot came out with that one??? The knowledge of the game from some fan’s is awful!!!
9 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:03:37
The point I was making is that the circumstances of the AZ and the Oldham games were similar - and the teams that lined up in those two games were also similar - in that it afforded Moyes the chance to give much needed run outs to fringe or returning players. It worked against AZ. It didn’t work against Oldham.
It was totally, totally legitimate - expected
even - that Moyes would send out the line up he did yesterday. Yet in the aftermath of defeat we have had extreme postings from MANY posters questioning Moyes competence, integrity and lack of respect for supporters and the competition itself which I consider hysterical overreaction. And sorry Brian - bu I am as much entitled to that opinion as you are to rebut it.
If you construe that (as you do) - "why are the fans who have vented their anger on ToffeeWeb over this defeat getting slaughterd if they have a go at Moyes for it?" - that is your right. It is not an opinion I subscribe to.
Let me ask a rhetorical question of my own: "Why should I passively accept the extreme abuse being directed at our manager and club which I consider unmerited?"
Yes - he is the manager and yes - the buck stops with him. This he has already acknowledged, being the only representative of the club to face up to the media in the wake of the defeat.
And whilst you and others may disagree, I fully concord with his assessment (which is why my original post was written): the team he sent out yesterday should have been more than enough to beat Oldham. It wasn’t.
And as I wrote yesterday, let’s give SOME credit to Oldham on their victory. I could only follow the audio commentary of the game yesterday and at no stage did it sound as if we really got up a head of steam and really troubled Oldham. And THAT more than anything else surprised me. Given the personnel and how Moyes has set up the club these days, I don’t expect ANY Everton team to be anything less than 100% committed on the pitch... but yesterday, evidently, too many of our players simply didn’t turn up.
It was an awful defeat. But a terminal one that undermines all our season so far, that will also guarantee the remainder of our season will collapse...? Nah! I’m not prepared to subscribe to such extreme hysteria myself.
10 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:32:32
Hmm... have to agree with you... "The knowledge of the game from some fan?s is awful..."
11 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:38:45
12 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:38:48
I'm pissed off but at least we're in the Uefa Cup, Carling Cup (though I'm a little more nervous now than I would of been before yesterday) and doing well in the league.
13 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:51:17
you are waisting your time here, the guys have been waiting one month and 13 long games winning streak to some here and spout the usuall shit, about how mediocre Moyes is and how he has no clue,etc.
Its not worth explaining they will not get it, a game every 3 days for the past month, injuries,suspensions,fatigue - it all doesnt matter the fact is Moyes "once again fucked up".
Ah and not to forget the FM stuff with sign x,y and z player or our season is over, where the money to sign these players comes from? They dont care - expect in the of January "The Ditterer strucks agian" article here
All in all knee jerk ractions - nothing new
14 Posted 06/01/2008 at 14:50:29
I too think it’s one of the worst displays I’ve seen at GP for many a long year but it is probably due to a combination of events rather than just DM’s selection, fatigue, Olham’s excellent performance or the players performance.
I said in a response to Ken’s report of the game. The back four looked like they’d never played together before. Who was the best of a bad bunch?Possibly Hibbert but he only looked good because everyone else was so bloody awful. Pienaar looked shattered even when he was warming up. Carsley, well, if anyone deserved to be rested it was him.
I’m sorry but I’m struggling to just brush it off as one of those things, I hate my team to lose and to lose without a fight, it’s not acceptable to me but hey, I’ll get over it. I’m not blaming anyone, like I said, for me it was a combination of factors that brought about our downfall.
I tossed and turned in bed, going back in mind over the events of the day, I wonder if any of the players who took part in that show of mediocrity yesterday had trouble sleeping? They damn well should have.
15 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:13:37
"EVERTON have two significant cup ties looming in the next four days ? but there?s no doubt in my mind which is the most important . . . the first one.
"Tuesday?s trip to Stamford Bridge could put Everton on the brink of a first Wembley appearance for 13 years, but you can?t afford to think ahead.
"The next match is always the most important and Everton can?t allow the semi-final with Chelsea to divert their attention from the visit of Oldham in the FA Cup.
"David Moyes may mix his side up a little, but he can?t afford to take too many liberties against a League One side which has won its last seven away from home, including a very impressive victory at Leeds this week."
16 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:21:13
When I was refering to fans knowledge I meant it to the one?s who say Tony Hibbert was man of the match. He was shite and offered us nothing again. Don?t twist things mate.
17 Posted 06/01/2008 at 17:44:12
18 Posted 06/01/2008 at 16:44:39
Now after yesterday's debacle I again see fans going over the top. All I would ask for is a little perspective from all sides.
We have won nothing yet, but I think we all agree we have the best squad we have had in a long time (and this is not accepting mediocrity as I expect this squad to be built upon). We are still some distance off the top four but it looks like we are closing the gap. We are doing well in Europe but again its only the last 32. We have a great chance of silverware in the form of the League Cup. And yesterday was an awful result.
I think we can all agree on the above. Things are improving but defeats such as yesterday should not happen.
However, we need to try and take a step back after wins but also after defeats. It's too easy to go over the top and over-react. We have had some excellent results and yesterday was awful. I think all concerned should now focus their energy on Tuesday's game and hope the boys do the business.
I believe they will! COYB!
19 Posted 06/01/2008 at 18:43:52
20 Posted 06/01/2008 at 19:30:48
Can't they play twice a week?Start your best eleven every time and then if you are in front make some changes. Just common sense me thinks.
Now if we loose to Chelsea, the last 32 of the Uefa Cup is all we have left to play for.
21 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:22:19
I have clearly stated more than once that IMO the issue was not with the team selection as some have charged. My comparison to the AZ game is a legitimate one because the two starting XIs were very similar, as were the circumstances. The point of such a comparison is that yesterday?s team had more than enough quality in it to comfortably see off Oldham. What was clearly different between the two games was the performance ? or lack of ? by the players.
I continue to say that ? yes ? it was an awful defeat. But a terminal one that undermines all our good work and season so far, that will also guarantee the remainder of our season will collapse...? Nope! I simply do not accept or subscribe to such hysteria and pessimism.
22 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:51:13
The article was fine.......well written, you have to expect criticism because often positive spin is greeted and rewarded by the negatives.....those that believe we have a divine right to be succesful and never have an off day, make a pigs ear of things or just be out of sorts.......remember those last day escapes, wish I had been a visitor to this site in those days, the mails must be classics! Forget trying to justify your comments.....you can?t win man!
23 Posted 06/01/2008 at 20:52:05
That might keep their wage demands in check but unfortunately will not improve their onsale value.
When some fans decide to vent their spleen on a particular player there is nothing that player can do to change their mind. That is why I gave up debating the merits or otherwise of individual players.
For example, Our only proven world class player is Tim Cahill.
Not long ago on this mailbox there was dozens who would have ’bit the hand’ off any club that bid for him.
24 Posted 06/01/2008 at 21:28:19
25 Posted 06/01/2008 at 21:51:23
Wessels, Hibbert, Baines, Stubbs, Graveson, Mcfadden, Vaughan and to a certain extent Johnson, have barely been in the side in the last few months for one reason or another.
They clearly werent match fit and up against a side who wouldnt allow them to ease back into the fold!
Moyes should have played Lescott instead of Stubbs or Baines and even Valente may have been a better option!
Midfield to be fair he was very short of options but it looked to be a perfect time to give Da Silva his debut! Even Neville in there would have been a better option than Graveson who should be sent back to Celtic because he’s clearly going to offer little!
26 Posted 06/01/2008 at 23:01:48
27 Posted 06/01/2008 at 22:50:48
Probably the most significant factor in the way we played yesterday was the lack of match practice most of the players selected have had.
I also agree with your comment about Graveson. I am still wondering why he was brought back to the club in the first place since clearly he was going no where fast at Celtic.
Reading through the diatribe formed by the bulk of contributions posted before yours everyone appears to get blamed for our defeat by Oldham except the fans who attended the match ? that is everyone except Keith Wyness; though why he should escape I don?t know since to blame him would be no more hysterical than most of the criticism.
From my seat in the Gladys Street end of Lower Bullens all that I could hear for most of the match were the chants of the Oldham fans who did their team proud. There was hardly a peep from our fans except for one brief period in the second half.
Get real those fans who are ready to blame anyone but themselves - how much vocal support did you give on Saturday?
Our players are entitled to be given the best vocal support through every game and not just when we play Liverpool, Manchester or Arsenal.
Accept your part in last Saturday?s failure and in future give the team on the pitch your vocal support during every match.
28 Posted 07/01/2008 at 01:27:25
29 Posted 07/01/2008 at 07:20:03
I was one of the few who actually shouted encouragement and clapped as the lads went off at half time and there were a few others who did the same.
I come back from every game with virtually no voice because I DO vocally support the team from start to finish.
You’re right, there was little in the form of singing/chanting from the LGS but was there from any other part of the ground? Most people were too busy chewing their nails or developing nervous ticks to think about singing! I sit on the Church side of the LGS and notice when we’re all making a racket, those in the family enclosure look at us like we’re animals in the zoo, hardly ever join in at all. When I sat in the Paddock it was the same thing. No one joins in except on very rare occasions. The Park End has become a great place for vocal support and goodness knows, I never thought I’d be able to say THAT!
If we want to lift the team, everyone has to join in, not just the GS and the Park End. When it does happen, there is no better place and no better feeling.
We have a very hard task tomorrow and possibly an ever harder one in front of the home crowd on Saturday.
Now really is the time to get behind our team and stop all the bickering. What happened v Oldham has gone now, we need to move forward or we’re in danger of talking ourselves into being Everton FC supporters circa 2000!
30 Posted 07/01/2008 at 08:15:35
Given the upcoming ANC and the recent welter of fixtures, it was perfectly legitimate for Moyes to select the likes of Wessels, Baines and Stubbs to give them exactly what you say they lack ? match fitness.
Like many others, you display perfect hindsight with who SHOULD have played, criticising Moyes? selections but then playing the game yourself ? ?it looked to be a perfect time to give Da Silva his debut - even Neville in there would have been a better option than Graveson?. Is this the same Phil Neville many never wish to see play in midfield again??
John Dela, I am NOT comparing the performance or the result of the AZ game to the Oldham game? I am pointing out that the circumstances were similar, as were the team line outs. The point of my post is to refute the many suggestions on here that we fielded an under strength side. We did not. It was a side full of players capable of getting a result. During the game we field seven full internationals, for heaven?s sake.
It was perfectly legitimate of Moyes to send out the team he did, given the hectic fixture congestion we have had recently, given the upcoming ANC and given the need to freshen up the squad and give fringe and returning players the chance to gain some match fitness which you and Steven rightly point out some lacked. Or would you both rather throw them in cold at Chelsea or next weekend at home to City??
One more thing John. You tell me not to compare the AZ game to the ?Oldham debacle?, but you do just that: ?? we did not have to win at AZ, we scored early, we were never behind?. Your point being? what, exactly? Do you think if Vaughan had converted the chance in the opening meeting we would be having this inquest??
No? the team selection on Saturday was a legitimate one. Sadly, the team simply didn?t perform. And painful as it is, I am not going to get into the same boat as a few doom merchants on here who wish to say that the Oldham defeat undoes all the good work of our season so far, that it is a precursor for a total collapse for the remainder of the season, that Moyes is incompetent. It does not. It will not. He is not.
31 Posted 07/01/2008 at 08:48:31
The way i was translating it was you were accepting that this defeat was one of those things.
I do feel though regardless of how good our season has been so far there is no place for that kind of showing on Saturday and how can footballers on 40k grand a week lose to players on £300 a week??
I still feel that we can achieve sucess this season no problem but Moyes must let the players know that performances any where near the standard on Saturday will not be tolerrated at any point in the future.
32 Posted 07/01/2008 at 09:59:40
33 Posted 07/01/2008 at 10:22:13
34 Posted 07/01/2008 at 10:19:47
35 Posted 07/01/2008 at 10:31:43
36 Posted 07/01/2008 at 10:59:28
37 Posted 07/01/2008 at 12:28:51
did we need to beat oldham YES
Thanks for your pointless article. Moyes needs a dose of reality ? the dickhead thinks he's Arsene Wenger all of a sudden.
i wasted another 50 quid on that shite so don't you dare defend the fucker! His tactical awareness is absolute rubbish ? Sunday league!
38 Posted 07/01/2008 at 14:12:30
I sat in the Main Stand and after the game there was some knobhead shouting for Moyes to be sacked. Anyone for shouting that after the game needs their blooddy eyes testing.
Moyesy has done amazingly this season. Since he arived, he's put us back up there, he's got the papers and pundits talking about us, leaving them thinking, "wait there Everton look a quality team now" and they're right, we are.
Saturday WAS one of those games, you cannot win them all; yes, the performance was woeful, but surely we have to give Oldham credit, they went about the game terrificly, anything can happen in the FA Cup! Come on boys, were in the semi final of the Carling Cup, we could finish top 4, and we are defo goona be in Europe next season!
I can't say I'm not upset about the game, cos I am, but there's more to the season, and we have to thank Moyes for what he has done to our club, he's put excitement back into us and I am really looking forward to the next few months! Come on you blues!
39 Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:05:26
I had no change of feeling within me what so ever.
The squad is tired, and we got bigger fish to fry. Champions League is on the cards, so is the League Cup and Uefa Cup.
The FA Cup, like the League Cup only becomes important nowadays when you’re in the last 8 for FA and last 4 for the League Cup.
The BBC can preach about how the cup still has its aura of ramance yada yada blah blah but no, it doesn’t does it.
40 Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:11:18
This is a game that asked questions of our "back up" players, most of whom failed to step up when called up on. but I am not dwelling and reading too much in to this result, over 90 minutes anyone can beat anybody, and that is cup football.
The most important thing now is not to allow this result to undo all the good work so far, semi of a cup tomorrow, last 32 of Uefa Cup and 6th in the leauge! Does this one result mean more than any of that?
Let's keep focused and back the team for glory instead of moaning and whining about a one off game.... I hoped we had stopped that...... obviously not!
And if you know your history!
41 Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:17:52
I would hope even DM’s sternest critics (and there does seem to be healthy competition for that particular accolade) will surely concede that so far there are way more ticks than crosses in terms of real and visible progress.
Yes, Saturday was a hefty kick in the nuts but it’s gone and it’s time to put the post mortems to bed. We should have won the game but we didn’t and now it’s history.
42 Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:03:10
43 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:08:04
Profund? Incisive?? Eloquent???
44 Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:11:48
My comments were not strictly about the game against Oldham, if you did but pay close attention.
And who the hell are you to say that ONLY match day attending Blues can comment on ANY game any way...?
45 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:41:28
46 Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:30:17
Everyone is entitled to their opinion thats what makes these forums work!!!!!!
The game has gone now we are all dissapointed but we will all get behind the team tuesday night for what could really be a difining point in the clubs history. We didn't break the cup run record on saturday but how about this team lifting the league cup for the first time!!!!!!
Cmon the blues!!!!!!!!!
Once a blue always a blue!!!!!!!!
47 Posted 07/01/2008 at 21:53:38
Stop digging, son... you’re already way in over your head.
48 Posted 08/01/2008 at 14:48:06
Looking at the teams that dropped out of the FA cup this weekend I think it shows what little respect (or other greater concerns) teams have for the FA cup. Yes that second string should have been good enough to beat Oldham but only if they played at full steam and won second balls, 50-50’s etc. Their goal saw Carsley out of position and not straining too hard to get back. When do you see that?
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