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Kirkby is a Movable Feast

By Peter Fearon :  07/01/2008 :  Comments (39) :
In some ways I was pleasantly surprised by the detailed plans for the Kirkbydome. I was especially impressed by the mini-jail they are planning to build under one of the stands and if ever I am in serious trouble I?ll be sure to ask if I can serve my time there. Maybe they?ll let Joey Barton do his porridge there...

It?s disappointing that there?s no architectural detail that makes it stand out so that it will be recognized on sight as Everton?s stadium, Don?t forget that big ?Everton? on all four sides is likely to be replaced by ?Huddersfield & Batley Building Society Stadium? or something, depending on who buys the naming rights.

I was interested to discover how they planned to deal with the issue ? important to some of us ? of the status of Kirkby ? in Liverpool, outside of Liverpool ? or irrelevant. The answer is it?s all three at once... When it suits the authors of the proposal, Kirkby is in Liverpool or ?Kirkby, Liverpool, Merseyside? as they phrase it. Elsewhere, Kirkby is referred to numerous times as a separate town, a distinct entity with its own identity apart from Liverpool, which Everton?s presence will serve to enhance. In other words, Everton is to become a Kirkby club, the Brooksiders, perhaps.

And yet again, the planners also claim that Everton never recognized a distinction between the City of Liverpool and the wider conurbation and that by staying within the Liverpool /Sefton/ Knowsley area, Everton is meeting a stated commitment to ?stay in Liverpool." That's the first time I'd heard that one; earlier they said they'd tried to stay in Liverpool but gave up.

Truly Kirkby is a Movable Feast.

It?s also interesting to read the very negative image of Kirkby portrayed in the proposals, given the hysterical outrage expressed by some on this site at the slightest hint of Kirkby being anything less than Malibu on the Mersey.

Kirkby?s many social and economic problems are listed in detail and the town centre regeneration ? basically a big Tesco and a stadium amid a retail park full of minimum wage jobs ? is supposed to be some kind of panacea for them. What is not said is that the new stadium is as likely to be swallowed up by those problems as it is to help solve them.

Reader Comments

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Jack Curt
1   Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:36:46

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I feel passionately that this move will be disastrous and possibly the end of the greatest club in world football.

if it comes through I will still attend (although at first I vowed not to; however, my love for Everton stretches further than the address of the ground) and will hope that I am proven wrong and we return ot our former glories.

Blue Bill or Bully Wyness, if you read this, please reconsider. Rebuliding the old lady would be ideal although difficult but you are not paid to provide the ?easiest? solution ? you are paid to provide the BEST!

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum ? never forget that

Gerard Madden
2   Posted 07/01/2008 at 15:53:17

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I think a lot of people have been pleasantly surprised by what they’ve seen in the planning application.

Most heartening is confirmation that we’re to have a nice big built in club shop and museum to store all our wonderful history for future generations to see - long overdue!

This museum will also be able to hold parts of the Everton (David France) collection from time to time - great news!

As for the Kirkby stuff, well most Evertonians where I come (came) from - Anfield view Kirkby as simply another part of the city, just as we view Bootle and Huyton as being part of the city despite the different colour of the wheelie bins! and different levels of those wretched council tax rates. It is 100% scouse, has an ’L’ postcode and an ’0151’ telephone code pre-fix.

To everyone I know and I strongly suspect to outsiders our new stadium will simply be in Kirkby, Liverpool, Merseyside - it won’t stop us keeping our long held cherished title of being the ’Pride of Merseyside’.
Gerry Morrison
3   Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:08:14

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I share your concerns. I live in L.A. not far from the "Home Depot" centre. Some Evertonians might remember our triip to "Pizza Hut Park" a couple of summers back. These places all lack a soul. There is nothing to them. I don’t give a flying feck whether we are in the city boundry or not. However, when I get on a ’plane and fly for twelve hours or so to see a game, as I occasionally do, I really don’t want to find myself in the "Fresh and Easy Soccer Centre". This has disaster written all over it.
Lee Spargo
4   Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:44:48

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Goodison has ’soul’ because of the many seasons we have spent there. I doubt it had ’soul’ when we first moved from Anfield. We have to move with the times, and a new stadium is a must. It will be whatever we make of it, and that really is down to us supporters.
Lee McCarthy
5   Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:40:15

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It’s not going to be Everton anymore!!!

They are taking a brand name Everton Football Club a club from the city of Liverpool and re-locating them to a suburb outside of the city.

Kirkby is not in Liverpool end of story and for god’s sake cut out the stupid arguements like "What people from Kirkby aren’t scousers". It’s pathetic. Kirkby is not in Liverpool, Everton will no longer be a Liverpool club and that is a FACT!!! I’d bet that the club looked at the postcodes of the season ticket holders first before they put the vote to fan’s.

Good luck being the brunt of the RS and Man U fans jokes for the next 100 or so years!!!!!

A big thank you to all you Yes voters!!! Enjoy your country club because that’s what you got.
Bill Dean
6   Posted 07/01/2008 at 16:49:37

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Well there we have it, its official on the planning application. A mid-level stadium with basic facilities !!! Oh my God
Stu Bailey
7   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:24:26

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I am bored with the argument about Kirkby not being a part of Liverpool. Kirkby has been a part of Lancashire, Liverpool and now Knowsley. I have lived in Kirkby all my life and have always put Kirkby Liverpool as my address and well as mail sent to me is Kirkby, Liverpool; even my season ticket is Kirkby Liverpool.

As far as I am concerned any address with a postcode that starts with L is in Liverpool. Do we celebrate the capital of culture to mark 800 years in the original Liverpool 800 hundred years ago? If so, many parts of so called Liverpool were famers fields. The entire L postcode is involved including Kirkby.

People forget everyone in Kirkby was born in Liverpool, we have not got Hospital we are aliens! I was born in Mill Road and probably speak better Scouse, than any Liverpudlian. My dad is from Scotland Road and moved to Kikby in 1956 and my Mum is from the Bullring by china town.

All this talk about it not in Liverpool is crap, so everyone who goes to watch Everton and Liverpool games are from Liverpool? These people moaning probably don?t even live in Liverpool. Is Bootle, Huyton Liverpool?

Look at the facts; we have no other option only Kirkby, we voted it, so go with it. If they built Everton on the Wirral or in Southport I would still go, I would not moan. Evertonians need to understand that we started off in Stanley Park, then Anfield and then Goodison and now Kirkby ? what is the problem. To be honest I am glad we are getting away from the City, because I don?t want to be associated with Liverpool FC any more.

As for the naming of the Ground I am sure it will be sorted out with relevant names of our history.
As for Kirkby relying on the ground to be build to improve the economy is rubbish, of course it will create jobs. But too many people who know nothing about Kirkby and have never been there and talk rubbish. Don?t forget there is an offer from ASDA to redevelop the town centre which does not include the ground.

In the 50?s we had the biggest industrial estate in Europe.

Now we have and industrial estate on the up with many big international companies there employing thousands of people, with many people from Liverpool working there.

It is also nice to know we have expert fan stadium designers looking at the plans and say it is rubbish, even more idiots! Lets build our ground now and stop moaning, before the reds do. Just think it could be started as soon as this year!

Follow! Follow! Follow! Everton is the team to follow! So follow them.

Gerry Morrison
8   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:29:04

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Stu Bailey

"As for the naming of the Ground I am sure it will be sorted out with relevant names of our history."

Your trust in these people is touching.
Tony Marsh
9   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:28:35

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Argue all you like about post codes and county boundary lines it won't make a blind bit off difference. Once Everton leave for Kirkby they then cease to be Everton anymore. Everton FC will be dead and buried and what or who you will be watching is anyone's guess.

One thing for sure it wont be Everton FC from the city of Liverpool. Tesco Rovers... call them what you will but please don't insult my intelligence with this muesem under the stadium bullshit. What has the David France Collection got to do with some new club on a supermarket car park in Knowsley? Moving to Kirkby equals the death of EFC. END OF STORY

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Keith Glazzard
10   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:08:57

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The proposed new stadium is designed to be purpose-built for football.

My dad, brother and I had the great joy of going to Wembley in 1984. Personally, I was happier that dad got out of there alive than we had won the cup. Soul? The Empire Stadium had loads of it. They never used toilets when it was built - I guess. Like Maine Road. Or Anfield.

The MU (not FC) moved out of Manchester to a trading estate, with the foresight (I am joking) to leave room to build cantilevered stadium many years ago. They seem to be getting on. My tip for anyone putting a bet on for the next 100 years (see above) is to go with the MK Dons. Wimbledon? Wombles? Tim Henman. Best off out.

Darren Cowzer
11   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:36:37

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The Kirkby Argument has been Settled.
What is very relevant in this Article is the Lack of an "Iconic" Symbol which says this is Everton.
Large Towers in each corner serving as Supports and as Iconic Symbols Maybe ?
Apart from that - The Stadium Looks Very Good in my Opinion.
Eric Holland
12   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:39:00

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Stu B
Spot on mate !
You can keep your old lady,wrinkles and all,
I fancy a fresh young bit of stuff.
Shaun Kinnair
13   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:50:53

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Tony M. take a chill pill mate its not the end of the world if EFC go to kirkby, if it is the end of EFC which I doubt very much then dont worry mate you’ll still have a job and the rest of your life to look forward too.
Happy New Year to you all.
Trevor Clarke
14   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:59:15

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Have you ever heard such total rubbish? Tony, you ? like all Evertonians who think this will rip the heart out of the club ? are talking nonsense. You need to wake up to the fact of change, everyone goes through it and it's now Everton's turn and I for one look forward to the future, I believe if we keep improving the way we have (slowly) then, by the time the stadium is built, we could be hosting teams like Barcelona on massive Champions League nights... COYB!!!!
Ian Gates
15   Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:06:59

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if Marsh is the type of Evertonian who won’t be coming with us to Kirkby then thank god!!!
Peter Fearon
16   Posted 07/01/2008 at 17:57:48

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Tony Marsh is responding to the fact that the character of the Everton FC we know will change beyond recognition after the move away from the city. That?s because Everton has always been a part of the fabric of Liverpool and specifically the small area around Anfield, Stanley Park and Goodison. To leave that area but retain our tie to the core of the city, as in King?s Dock, was one thing, but to leave for a bland, drab shopping centre in a neighboring town - no matter how familiar - involves a change of character. In that narrow sense, the old Everton that played every home game within shouting distance of its first, will be gone. The club based in Kirkby will be a new entity - maybe one that leans on the old heritage now and then - but new nevertheless. It?s arguable whether it can claim a connection to Liverpool - but certainly it can?t claim a connection to Everton.
John Burquest
17   Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:26:37

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Location for me is secondary although I don?t really want to move given the choice but it would soften the blow and even fill me with optimism if we were getting a unique stadium! I think the design is boring and symmetrical and there?s nothing that stands out or makes you feel proud.

Everton are a unique club which makes me wonder why we are getting such a pile of shit. As unhappy as people would be with the move I think almost everyone long term would accept it if the stadium was out of this world and with it came success on the pitch.

For me the stadium looks crap and the fact that you wont even be able to park anywhere is a joke.
Karl Masters
18   Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:51:45

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Agree with you, John Burquest.

This stadium was designed by people who build concrete vboxes called Supermarkets with some input from Kenwright.

It’s a design that is lacking in any imagination whatsoever. It’s one unique quality in the night time impressions, those ridiculous search lights pointing up to the sky, was of course artistic license. The cold reality will be a basically constructed meccano job that will probably be ready for demolition in 50 years time. Think Cornish fishing villages on Everton Brow or The Piggeries and you’ll not be far from the truth.

On the radio last night, the 5LIVE team were at Stoke in their shiny, nwish stadium and commented on water pouring in through the roof in front of them. Modern building standards often leave a lot to be desired especially when doing it on the cheap is a pre-requisite.
Philip Bunting
19   Posted 07/01/2008 at 18:53:00

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Location to me at this moment in time is secondary for various reasons. When Everton first played at Anfield were we in the City then’ No’ the city evolved over time and Everton became part of it. The same will happen again, times change. Dreams and memories of the past will only kill the future unless we embrace the present, the present says move! Its the only option thats available moneywise, Lcc have shafted Efc for years, why stay to dwindle and die and it years to come fall behind the likes of West Ham and Spurs to become no more than a Forest etc. Accept and embrace the future, i will.
Lee McCarthy
20   Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:08:39

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Trevor Clarke are you for real mate??

Barcelona in the champions league we can’t even beat fucking Oldham!!!

The kirkby move WILL spell disaster for Everon Football Club and is the beginning of the end for this once great club. Thank you Bill Kenwright, Keith Wyness for murdering this club and a big thank you to the YES voters for your total ignorance and lack of bollocks to challenge our hierachy on their continous lies.

But it’s what you wanted so Good Luck with supporting your new footballl club.

Paul Hardcastle
21   Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:28:26

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Stu Bailey: Your ability to argue against something that is an established fact is remarkable. The problem is that you are wrong regarding one fundamental and irrefutable fact: Kirkby is not in the City of Liverpool; Kirkby is in the Municipal Borough of Knowsley. It’s not something you can argue about because it is a FACT.

A lot of the other stuff you say may have merit, and convincing yourself that the above fact is not true may also help you to accept the proposed stadium move, but I just want to help you with this one fact: Kirby is in Knowlsey, not in Liverpool.

Hope this helps.
Ed Fitzgerald
22   Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:01:27

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I suspect it will run and run because of a number of key factors

1. The ground is outside the city we are called Everton and we have played at Stanley Park, Anfield and Goodison in excess of 129 years. Lets be fair these sites are fairly close to one another, so it is seems resonable to think of his area as our natural home. However you spin it and try to justify Kirkby it just does not seem right.
2. The vote -not the most democratic vote we have witnessed the eligibility criteria always favoured the result the board wanted. It reminded me of the way Jeb Bush made sure that some black voters and poor voters were removed from the right to vote in Florida to ensure George back into the Whitehouse. Before you scream Electoral commission it is the criteria for eligibility that I am calling into question.
3. The clubs PR has been poor for the whole duration of the proposed move. They have been less than open about what has been going on. Kenwright seems to be upset that some people are going to put him under scrutiny (Trevor Skempton for example) given his track record with investment and ground developments I think he has got off very lightly.
4. The partners do not fill me with confidence. TESCO are hardly ethical partners look up the web site composed by TESCO employees, or friends of the earths document ’shopping the bullies’ for a different perspective of our benign grocer.

5. The ground is at best uninspiring and at worst no better than a riverside or pride park or ricoh arena. The board better pray we are playing well when we move there otherwise we will lose support.

Ed Fitzgerald
23   Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:35:20

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PS for a good laugh look at the video of TESCO Vs DENMARK - Tommy Gravesen you have been warned! Its on U-tube
Francis Milner
24   Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:18:33

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All this is it/isn?t it in Liverpool stuff is just boring. I was born and bred in the city, but that was then and this is now.
We can?t stay at Goodison ?cos some day soon it will just collapse in a heap all around us. The Loop etc just pie in the sky and to be totally blunt I want nothing further to do with LCC. People venting their spleen on BK should turn their fire on Bradley and cronies who are the real villains of the piece.
Has anyone else read the whole document? I?ve had a go and it stacks up well though not too sure I spotted a figure for car parking spaces. Please read paras 8.14 and 8.15 especially. Have I got it wrong or is this really saying we are getting a brand new 50,000 stadium for nothing?
Tony Marsh
25   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:08:09

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Francis Milner why blame Bradley for Kenwrights fuck ups? It's the useless lump of crap Kenwright that fucked up Kings Dock not LCC. It wasnt Bradley who lied for years until it all went tits up on the waterfront. I will take the Kings Dock fiasco to the grave and never forgive BK for the mess we now find ourselves in. All you who are happy with Kirkby after what we should have had need a long look in the mirror. Kings Dock v KirkbyTesco erm hard one that. You should be ashamed of yourselves
Eric Hardman
26   Posted 07/01/2008 at 19:35:50

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One interesting statistic that nobody seems to have done any research on is how many of EFC’s paying customers come from the City (as narrowly defined by its current administrative boundary) and how many don’t.
My guess would be that people who live in the ’inner city’ care much more about the boundary issue than those who don’t. (My family have supported the Blues for generations but have never lived in the city).
The two related points I would make on the question of the suggested demise of the club are:
a) If the club is successful on the field (really successful - I don’t mean last 32 of the UEFA cup or top 6 in the league) then it will survive and prosper anywhere within Merseyside.
b) Unless the current financial factors affecting all clubs change (by which I mean that TV revenue and TV exposure is an increasingly important part of financial success compared to the fans who pay at the gate) the only way for any club to prosper will be to cultivate support from a much wider area than merely its native city.
On the question of design, if we want Wembley or Old Trafford or the Emirates type stadiums (obviously we do) then we need to come up with at least £200m more than we’ve got to spend.
At the end of the day I’d rather we spent that kind of money on the team.
Trevor Clarke
27   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:22:52

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LEE yes I am for real and if you bothered to read what I said "IN THE FUTURE" didnt mention right this minute, Everton are in a transition period and no matter what way you blow over the stadium plans I hope to see the team playing the likes of Barcelona and being back were we belong !!!

have some FAITH!!!
Dave Wilson
28   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:15:58

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if Kirkby is so acceptable why not just go the hole hog and call the team Kirkby ? You wouldnt fucken dare do it coz the club becomes devalued in a heartbeat, at least the MK Dons had the moral courage to admit they where turning their backs on their true fans
Francis Milner
29   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:20:46

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Tony Marsh, seems like I?ve struck a nerve. There is no need to get personal and abusive just because you don?t agree with me.

The King?s Dock was never a runner; the sums just didn?t add up. A wonderful location, but how on earth would 50,000 fans have got there? A crazy idea from the outset.

As for true-blue Warren and the numbingly brain-dead people who are our elected Councillors, tell me this. What single thing have they done to help the club stay in Liverpool? I don?t mean what have they said ?cos words are cheap. What have they done? Just one thing please!
Gerard Madden
30   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:30:32

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Trevor I look forward to the future with optimism too! I can really see our new stadium being one of THE theatres of European football, 50-60,000 screaming mad blues would frighten the living daylights out of yer Barca’s, Milans ’n Madrids of this world.

We’re still at the stage of sorting things out ON THE PITCH but at our current rate of improvement I fully expect that when our 50,000 (Extendable to 60,000) stadium is built I feel sure we’ll be competing at the highest level of European football.
Ed Fitzgerald
31   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:28:38

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King Kanute

No scrap that idea lets go out of town to Kirkby it soo pretty with so much to look at and so many facilities. I dont want to be where we have been for over 100 years let Liverpool build a stadium for those horrible people who live in the city of Liverpool we dont want those sorts following our brand new shiny version of Everton do we! Just soak up the atmosphere of those new grounds such as Pride Park, Boro etc all that space too no unobstructed views (not too many fans ), and totally supporter friendly with plenty of time to discuss the game as you wait to leave the ground for an hour. Who needs tradition, lets move on, be grateful for Honest Bill Kenwright and the Good Knight Sir Terry Leahy. I am sick of these negative people who think history and sentiment matters, Bill knows best hasnt he proved it, he has never stood in the way of inward investment or treated the club like his personal plaything. I mean the thought of it, Everton playing in Liverpool, whats all that about?
Dick Fearon
32   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:36:47

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Can someone please find something, anything, NEW to say about the Kirkby move or are we doomed to forever read the same old worn out argument from both sides.
Ed Fitzgerald
33   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:44:50

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Your name says it all! You are truly deluded, I want some of the drugs you must be on pal. Please name me a major team in Europe that has a fucking supermarket next door. As for Barcelona have you been to the Nou Camp? hardly fucking Westvale is it!

Trevor Clarke
34   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:54:46

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ED - I dont think the Nou Camp has a chippy selling greasy sausages and chips on the corner either, your point means nothing, madden was commenting on the fact that he like lots of us have a Dream that perhaps in the future be it in Liverpool or that part of liverpool that you all seem to see as outer mongolia called Kirkby "go there and call one of them a wooly back I dare you" Everton will be playing teams like that!!!
Ed Fitzgerald
35   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:53:34

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I am terribly concerned I have upset you by being sarcastic. Please forgive me I know we are all Evertonians and should get behind the team and more importantly our fantastic leadership team who have delivered sustainable success on and off the pitch for so many years. I promise to scream my head off a la Madden when we put Barcelona to the sword in Kirkby. But just for now I will try to answer my six year olds question at the match on Saturday, Dad who are Oldham? and why is everyone booing?
Dave Wilson
36   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:56:52

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Your having a laugh lad, Madden cant even get himself to Goodison, he has no interest in our club, he’s just a figure of fun mate, dont waste your time
Francis Milner
37   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:55:19

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Ed, you have lost me. Are you saying that a neighbouring supermarket means that success on the field is impossible? Like the supermarket casts a bad spell on the football club? Weird, to put it mildly.

Jonathan Pollard
38   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:57:20

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I was walking by the Anglican cathedral the other day. It seemd a litle run down. I’m sure they could do with a bigger one. There’s not much room around it to expand. There’s a limited view of the altar from some seats. Let’s rebuild it in Runcorn, call it the "The God Centre" but pretend it’s still Liverpool Cathedral, because so many people in Runcorn were from Liverpool 25 years ago. That’ll work.
Tommy Gibbons
39   Posted 07/01/2008 at 20:45:53

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The NO?s harp on and on and on (etc etc) telling us every reason not to move but not one of them have come up with a feasible plan to site the club elsewhere in MERSEYSIDE or of course staying at Goodison. Also, the only thing that will be the ?death knell? of the club is bad performances on the pitch and disinterested support, not the stadium. Goodison Park is a great football stadium, but it only comes alive when the supporters sing! Portsmouth is a dump but their support makes you think your in a stadium far better than it actualy is.

In fact this season I?ve been to Kharkiv, Nuremburg, Alkmaar (and about to go to Bergen!!) all different types of stadia but what made them all impressive was the atmosphere provided by the supporters (both home and away) and all 3 stadiums in the middle of nowhere!! So don?t tell me that the club will die just because we move to Kirkby, It?ll only die if supporters don?t turn up, and then of course if you don?t turn up your no longer a supporter so what does your opinion count for?

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