Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In Sign Up
Text:  A  A  A

That which cannot be replaced

By Rezzie Flanders :  31/05/2008 :  Comments (24) :
I've been reviewing the recent (and not so recent) discussion/news about the Kirkby move and prospects for Goodison with the view that I don't have a dog in this hunt. I'm a newly minted Blue over the pond, and it's not my fight. However, I've been bleeding Cubbie blue for longer than some of you have been alive, and I invite you to review the Wikipedia article on Wrigley Field, aka the Friendly Confines.

This time reminds me so strongly of the 80s and the prospect we faced at the time of leaving Wrigley for some soulless concrete donut in Schaumburg. I invite each and every Evertonian to read OUR history and mull over the events of the last 20 years on the northside of Chicago. Review with particular care the area marked "Building a New Tradition" ? in retrospect, it seems inconceivable that there was a possibility of baseball leaving the corner of Addison and Clark, which is still today one of the great sporting venues in the world. Indeed, the entire area has been reborn as a sports entertainment district, even though it is in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

From thousands of miles away, even I can see that Goodison is home to much more than the world's loudest Tannoy. There is a special character to the passion in this place that is transmitted over the air and comes out of my TV set in Florida ? it strikes me the same way that a ninth-inning rally at Wrigley does ? it's a very special thing. That Fiorentina match, the first half against Arsenal (and then the heartbreak ? for a Cub fan there must always be heartbreak) ? they are something I'll never forget. You have something here that money can't buy, you beloved scousers ? don't let the money men sell it short. Maybe there are some lessons in our history that can be of use to you in these days.

Go ? read our story ? take some inspiration. My hopes and prayers are that I can someday cart my old bones over the big ditch, pull on a royal blue Everton shirt to go with my royal blue Cubs cap, and go see the Blues working 'em silly in the friendly confines of Goodison Park ? with a new tradition that will live for another 90 years. Our Cubs are having a magical season so far, 100 years from our last World Series victory ? the idea of this happening in Rosemont or Gurnee is inconceivable to me, and leave a taste in my mouth that feels like dust. Stick with your vision ? it has to be Goodison, no matter what it takes. Take it from us ?there is no substitute for the real thing. There can be a way if you want it badly enough. Go find this ? hope it helps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xBxZGQ1dJk

You have to cherish that which cannot be replaced.

Eamus Catuli, and COYBB!!

Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Karl Masters
1   Posted 31/05/2008 at 22:19:17

Report abuse

Last Sunday I was in New York and attended a Yankees Baseball game wth my son against Seattle.

Aside from the last gasp Yankees comeback to win 6-5 that got even me excited, even though I’m not totally sure of all the rules (!), and sent 50,000 people home happy, I noticed something else.

The original Yankee stadium was torn down in the early seventies and in place of Bullens Road style stands was placed a pretty soulless concrete bowl, although the view is excellent and the upper tier so steep it makes the Top Balcony at Goodison look like a gentle slope.

However, this is their last season at this stadium and a new one is being built. But, not on the outskirts of New York , not in Jersey City like the Giants’ stadium, but right outside the current one in the Bronx - 50 YARDS across the road. It’s actually going to be 2,000 seats smaller, but has vastly superior catering, corporate and toilet facilities.

This tells us that out of town stadia are not a sensible consideration for any sports team looking to move large numbers of people. When looking up directions, it was clearly stated that cars were a big no-no and that everybody should use public transport, ie subway and buses. 30 minutes after the final Frank Sinatra chorus of ’ New York, New York’ we were stepping out of a subway station 5 miles away in Manhattan. A sell-out crowd dispersed with ease.

Now, Kirkby doesn’t have a subway or much of a bus link or many decent roads to disperse hundreds of buses into. We should be looking at a location with great public transport links and a proen infrastructure for moving people quicky in all directions. From Goodison you can follow many roads, from Kirkby it looks like 2 good ones at best, but only after a tortuous grind through traffic to your car probably at least a couple of miles away, by park and ride bus and another slow crawl out of Kirkby in your car.

Can’t say I’m looking forward to that.
Mike Mclean
2   Posted 31/05/2008 at 23:39:58

Report abuse

All the arguments about this are so well rehearsed it hardly seems worthwhile to enter the debate yet again, except to say that our American friend hits one nail on the head: once you’ve sold your soul, you don’t have much left to sell.

I wonder whether such a consideration would trouble KW for one moment.

Actually, we all know the answer to that.
Tom Hughes
3   Posted 01/06/2008 at 00:06:14

Report abuse

Rezzie,
A great analogy. Fenway too! Likewise Karl?s story.

Some of the latest generation of US stadia are coming with next to no carparking due to their new central public-transport friendly locations not requiring them. Kirkby is more representative of the 50s-60s policy of out of town stadia in the US. A generally discredited and now even reversed stadium model.

Hope you manage to get over one day to see the real "real thing."
Dave Moorcroft
4   Posted 01/06/2008 at 04:03:07

Report abuse

Rezzie, You know the score mate, I couldn't have put it better.
Derek Thomas
5   Posted 01/06/2008 at 06:46:36

Report abuse

I’ve just been on Karl’s post and asked people to but the facts to a neutral, if they could find one.

Lo and behold up pops Rezzie from eff el ay

Priceless!!
Harvey Howardsen
6   Posted 01/06/2008 at 09:47:46

Report abuse

7 days away from victory my fellow True blue friends, as the Kirkby project will definately get called in this week by the Govt.

Let's see Fatty KW crawl up his own arse in 6 months time, when he is presenting "his" vision of the new Goodison Park..!!

Moyes Out...

And to all those who voted Yes... Shame on you! ? a valuable lesson learned.
Tom Campbell
7   Posted 01/06/2008 at 12:29:03

Report abuse

The only way we can stay at Goodison is if about 38,000 fans chain themselves to their seats after our final home game chanting "We shall not be moved" ......

Does anyone else have a better idea???

KEIOC!
Mick Mac
8   Posted 01/06/2008 at 17:51:04

Report abuse

I have been reading with interest about your glee about the Kirkby project being called in by the government. I don't beleive for one minute as this would stop the project going ahead but merely delay it. I voted for the move and, barring an offer of a stadium being built in Walton Hall Park, I would vorte that way again no problem.

I don't feel in least bIt ashamed of what I voted because I believe and still do that it is the best way forward for Everton Football Club. I do wonder about the protest of all 38,000 fans chaining themselves to the seats and I wondered would that mean the Yes voters and away fans too?

Pardon the pun but I dont honestly think that there is a credible alternative to the Kirkby proposal including the Walton Hall one because reading betwen the lines it was the LCC which didn't think it would be good to release the information. Now if that is true, what chance do you have? It means to my mind that LCC want us out of the city anyway.

Ajamu Mutumwa
9   Posted 01/06/2008 at 19:50:54

Report abuse

Harvey Howardsen

Nice to know that you have the ear of ministers as you seem very cock sure about the call in. Why not wait and see what happens.

The fat lady has only started gargling.

Tom Campbell

We will never agree on this issue but I can give you some ideas.....

We can resurrect the loop. Remember it? ... so many articles, only to discover that it is more landlocked than Goodison, and even worst, is likely to hold less capacity.

We could of course stay in Goodison with its obstructed views all around the ground and its height of corporate entertainment in a tent (oh, sorry... Marquee) - not being able to take in more revenue each year.

- We could hope that some mysterious benefactor wants to build a stadium for us, even though benefactors don?t normally invest in stadia.

We could share a stadium, or be stay at Goodison and be dwarffed by the spaceship in the Park, assuming that it will ever be built.

We could share a stadium. Horrible idea, but in my view a "defeat" over Kirkby is nothing more than a phyrric victory, as it does not solve our long term future.

Oh, but it will keeps us within the city boundary (and stops the shite singing their song about us leaving) but trying to work with a Council who doesn?t give a shit about us.

A real great victory if it happens!!!
Rezzie Flanders
10   Posted 01/06/2008 at 20:38:03

Report abuse

As we can see here, it’s tough to see the forest for the trees. Maybe the view is clearer from a far away place. As some guys up your way once said:

Think of what you’re saying.
You can get it wrong and still you think that it’s alright.
Think of what i’m saying,
We can work it out and get it straight, or say good night.
We can work it out...

If you followed the link I placed in my post (really - go follow the link), you can hear the late, great Steve Goodman pointedly saying "NO LIGHTS". Friends, without lights, today we would have no Wrigley Field. Even in Chicago, the true heart of political corruption for a century now, they found a way to work it out. Keep listening to each other, suffer the asshats charitably, and don’t be in a hurry. From what I can see, KW is all about chasing the deal, and all he can hear is the clock ticking on the payout.

Whatever solution you find has to keep the spirit you see at Goodison - I think (from here) that’s going to be a tough order in Kirkby, but I may have my head firmly up my ass, as far as that’s concerned. In all of this, don’t forget what’s important - and it’s not the money.

If you go for the cash and lose the spirit of Goodison, you’ve entered a fool’s bargain - the passion is what counts. With no passion, there’s no product. Deliver that message to KW, keep it up, and maybe, just maybe that’ll sink in. If not, put him out on his ass. You can do it - you’re the customer - and the customer eventually is always right.

BTW - Moyes out?? Put down the crack pipe, dude.
Tom Hughes
11   Posted 02/06/2008 at 00:31:53

Report abuse

Ajamu,
There are no accurate references regarding the Loop nor a redeveloped GP in your posting..........

Why is that?
Ajamu Mutumwa
12   Posted 02/06/2008 at 12:25:04

Report abuse

Tom Hughes

I did not attempt to write a thesis, but only to respond to points raised by Harvey.

- The reference about the loop is contained in Everton’s submission for planning permission where they state that the Loop will only be able to hold 36,000.

Nobody has yet challenged that figure, or the reasoning behind that.

- As reference to GP, I am not sure what "accurate reference" I should be quoting? Are those for a Kirkby stadium required to reference their response as if we were doing a dissertation, while those against Kirkby can come up wll any old falsehood paraded as fact? Seems a bt unfair to me.

- As I’ve often stated, I am for a re-developed GP and not a bolt on. If the Kirkby stadum is not approved, I’ll be the first to join with Tom in demanding that Everton comprehensively assess your proposals and give good public reasons why it should be rejected.

I would then expect them to explore all avenues (even the unpalatable shared stadium option), and come up with a solution.

And before anyone asks, no, I won’t be joining KEIOC under any circumstances.
Graham Atherton
13   Posted 02/06/2008 at 15:21:59

Report abuse

Wrigley field held 38 000 in 1938, holds 41 000 now. How much has the revenue earned from that stadium over the years increased? Is success in baseball ruled by the dollar in the same way that football is ruled by the pound?


We are forced into a situation where we have to earn as much money as possible to pay for the best players we can afford. It is madness but until the entire world is signed up to Sky (or the European Union permits wage capping) the increase will spiral up and up.


I am happy to be watching the best league in the world with many of the best players as I well remember the sport dying on its feet 20 years ago.
I don’t want to wait 100 years to win the premiership again - it is one thing to propose a club that has never won in living memory should stay in its old, albeit historic stadium and quite another to propose that for Everton FC.
Rezzie Flanders
14   Posted 02/06/2008 at 20:39:37

Report abuse

Graham,

Excellent questions. Thanks for them.

There are lots of differences, and I don’t mean to minimize the differences between the situations.

Unlike American football (the NFL) there is no salary cap in baseball. As a result, many here complain about the wide disparity in talent between the NY Yankees (who spend like Chelski) and small market teams like Kansas City or Minnesota. However, teams like the Minnesota Twins, the Florida Marlins, and the Oakland Athletics consistently punch well above their weight due to good overall management and scouting (see any parallels?), and if you look at the current MLB AL table, you’ll find the Yanks languishing near the bottom of their division, despite their outsized payroll. (Big smile)

In addition, there is no such thing as relegation over here - if there were, no doubt the Cubs would have been knocking about in division two or three for much of the 1940’s, 50’s, and 60’s. The more recent improved fortunes date from the 1980’s, when the club was acquired by the Chicago Tribune newspaper as a source of programming for their national superstation, WGN, one of the first cable stations to achieve market penetration across the whole USA. From this point forward, the Cubs have been acting much more as a large market, rather than a small market team, which is what they are - the Wrigleys really ran the team as a rich man’s hobby. In the day baseball era, a crowd of 10,000 would not be uncommon - on a cold day in April, that would actually be not too bad. All MLB teams have 81 home dates, stretching from the beginning of April through the end of September. Season long attendance will be well over 3 million at Wrigley these days, and most if not all home games are basically sold out early in the season. Currently, your chances of walking up and getting a ticket to a Cubs game in many places are essentially nil - I have to go to StubHub to get a decent seat even when I catch my Cubs in Atlanta, the closest NL venue to me - not a particularly good baseball town, despite their fine record in recent years and a really nice stadium. As for the possibility of getting a seat at Wrigley on game day, it’s not likely - many queue up for a bleacher seat, but they go fast and they all go - sitting in that queue is how I became a Cubs fan many years ago, in fact. Ticket brokers are the best possibility. We are now a big payroll, big market team - the TV money is not small, and the revenue in the Chicago area for its favorite franchise is what you would expect it to be.

In addition, Chicago has always belonged to the Cubs - the White Sox (the Chicago AL team) have generally always been treated about as shoddily as the Blues currently are in Merseyside. Though my own affinity predates the WGN national exposure, wherever they travel in the US you’ll find about half the crowd wearing Cubs blue and cheering on the Cubs, unless the locals are a strong franchise with a sold out base of fans. Don’t try wearing a Cubs hat in Philadelphia, if you know what’s good for you. Just dummy up and watch the game.

My major point is that whatever venue is created for the Blues, great care should be taken to preserve as much of what is good about the Goodison experience - keeping the feel of the contact with the pitch from the stands, the look of the place should be preserved, and if possible it needs to happen close to the original piece of real estate - this seems to me the major hurdle, due to the nature of the footprint and its surroundings. It’s a knotty problem, for sure. It’ll take time, patience and tender loving care. The Sox had a wonderful old venue at Comiskey Park, and I wouldn’t hold a goat rodeo in their new place - though it’s across the street from the old ballpark, there was no attempt at all to preserve any of the quirks of old Comiskey that made it such a special place. That would be another good place to research, actually - something to avoid at all costs. They tore down a ballpark and built a stadium, and lost their souls in the process. But then Reinsdorf (Sox owner) is Satan made flesh - blah, blah, blah - don’t get me started. Hope this sheds some light.
Glenn Kuenzig
15   Posted 02/06/2008 at 21:33:18

Report abuse

Not sure if Kirby is the best option but I think is the only option that we could afford.

You can’t compare Everton’s situtaion to pro sports in America though. Here in the good ol USA most stadiums are built by the city and the pro sports teams get to play in them rent free. Hell even Paul Allen (net worth $20+ billion) didn’t have to pay a nickel to get a 500 million dollar stadium for his NFL team the Seattle Seahawks.
Tom Hughes
16   Posted 02/06/2008 at 21:15:29

Report abuse

Ajamu,
You couldn’t be more wrong, and that’s why I asked the direct question....... HOK have stated directly in their outline report that the Loop can readily accommodate 55k capacity stadium. The site can actually physically accommodate the Emirates or even the Millenium stadium both of which HOK designed...... and both with capacities in excess of 60k....... No-one disputes this now! Not even the consultants hired to discredit the Loop who’s rep at the last AGM sank without trace under shareholder’s questions and was laughed out of the place after he admitted knowing nothing about HOK’s report. HOK are the world authorities and have placed bigger stadia on smaller plots all over the planet. 38k is yet another laughable figure to place in the file marked "deceptions of the century" along with a "stadium for practically nothing" or "most accessible stadium in the country" etc etc

My mention of GP is regards your point about GP’s obstructed views etc. A redeveloped GP needn’t have any surely. Even a moderately redeveloped GP can reduce these substantially to even create a capacity with more unobstructed views than are being offered at Kirkby...... so why mention it as point to support Kirkby? At £78m the obstructed views become an irrelevance.... as does the "no-plan B". ALL falsehoods perpetuated by the club/Tesco and questioned by KEIOC, yet you still feel the need to condemn them. Sorry, I can’t follow that logic nor that of allowing the Kirkby project to carry on without first studying all the options to establish the best way forward. That should be the first stage, not the last.
Colin Wordsworth
17   Posted 02/06/2008 at 22:29:55

Report abuse

Tom

Having read an excellent article by Colin Fitzpatrick(same first name, but far more intelligent than moi) on another part of the website, it is apparent that Kirkby is going to cost less than 78 million.

This therefore rules out the loop as value for money and the redevelopment of Goodison.

This is not a flip comment, but have any other sites been identified in a suitable area that can fit a new stadium....and partner(because we need one!).

At the moment I do not feel either side are exactly coming up smelling of roses, do you?
Tom Hughes
18   Posted 02/06/2008 at 23:24:21

Report abuse

Colin,
You will have to point me to that article by Colin Fitz. If it is several months old it is surely now superceded by the club’s last figures which unless I’m mistaken were reliant on full cross funding via enabling retail to the scale proposed at the time of disclosing that cost. That funding source has been reduced in scale by over 30% to avoid objections. Therefore £78m is probably a very conservative figure now.

In their preliminary outline Bestway stated that they envisaged EFC’s contribution to the Loop to be of the order of £60m given the broader scope and scale of enabling developments around that site and in central Liverpool in general. They were never encouraged to follow up on this...... and that to me beggars belief.

As regards redeveloping GP. Adding just 10,000 seats to the current capacity to attain 50k+ needn’t cost anything like as much as what Kirkby may end up..... and certainly not all at once. In simplest terms a new tier wrapping around Bullens and Parkend including exec boxes needn’t cost more than £3-4k per seat for high quality new and improved facilities (Kirkby is £2k per seat construction costs). This would include the re-roofing of those 2 sides, and re profilling of the lower Bullens to greatly reduce obstructed views there. That is just one option of many.

As far as needing that partner. The only thing Tesco are providing at Kirkby is the cross funding to secure the plot and to build approximately one stand. We are still required to find the cash to build the other 3. We don’t necessarily need to build 3 new stands at GP, nor buy the land. At the same time Tesco are not the only people capable of generating enabling scope, and nor is Kirkby the only site. (in fact given the planning restrictions it’s hardly a valid site at all)

I’m not sure who "either" side is, or means? I believe the manufactured politics is meaningless and clouds the issues...... To me this all about what is best for the club: Redevelopment, moving closer to town or moving out of town, and all the valid comparisons therein. The amount of fabrications used to support the move rang alarm bells to me from day one...... they’re deafening now, and that can’t be attributed to any wrong doing by KEIOC, unless you know different.
Graham Atherton
19   Posted 03/06/2008 at 10:16:19

Report abuse

Hi Rezzie and thanks for your feedback,

I fully agree some features of Goodison and the matchday experience you refer to as ’soul’ (can it be summed up as so?) should be carried over to a new ground.

I believe that the club have been looking at developing locally for many years - most of my 46 years lifetime - and nothing has happened for one reason or another while our competitors improve and improve year on year. We MUST redevelop as soon as possible or simply do what you seem to be doing and accept the ’plucky loser’ mentality. I refuse to accept Everton FC cannot win the premiership again but it will take money and sacrifices.



The stadium is not attractive to look at from the outside and the area is very neglected at the moment. Inside accommodation is cramped in comparison to other PL grounds. I have been lucky enough to sit everywhere from the directors box to the family enclosure and while the corporate facilities are ok they don’t compare to the offerings of Derby or Sheffield United let alone Spurs, and they are far smaller.


The ’soul’ of Everton FC seems to be wedded to its working class roots and support and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but if we want to compete for trophies we once used to take for granted we would win every few years we have to expand the support base. Unless someone suddenly gives us access to crucial parcels of land around Goodison redevelopment doesn’t look to me to be as good an option as one which gives us much more space and is do-able within two to three years.
Tom Hughes
20   Posted 03/06/2008 at 11:51:26

Report abuse

Graham,
I think there are a few common misconceptions in there:

"I believe that the club have been looking at developing locally for many years - most of my 46 years lifetime"

Unfortunately there is very little evidence of this at the planning office where all applications are archived. Certainly for recent years. The expansion into the whole area behind the Park end was the last major development of the site..... John Moores also commisioned studies for continuing the mainstand structure around all sides in the late 70’s/early 80’s. Before that we hadn’t done a land grab since before the war to expand the Gwlady st when a whole block of terraced houses was removed.

"The stadium is not attractive to look at from the outside and the area is very neglected at the moment."

This need not always be the case. A proper redevelopment could be used to enhance the entire locality in the same way envisaged for the new Anfield development. This is solid vicorian housing stock..... a lot can be done with them and the relationship with the stadium accentuated. Also a redeveloped stadium can address aesthetics problems

"Inside accommodation is cramped in comparison to other PL grounds."

Even a moderate landtake on the Bullens road side for instance would enable tripling or even quadrupling of concourse space for both tiers if an extended/additional tier was added bridging that road.

"the corporate facilities are ok they don?t compare to the offerings of Derby or Sheffield United let alone Spurs, and they are far smaller."

Why can’t this be remedied at the current site? WHL has a smaller footprint than GP.

"we have to expand the support base."

We can only do that if we win things. Even placing the San Siro in Kirkby would not increase the fanbase without success on the pitch....... and the farcical public transport issues alone could eat into any gains there. Unfortunately we’re not getting anything remotely of that quality.

"Unless someone suddenly gives us access to crucial parcels of land around Goodison redevelopment "

The club has to ask. They haven’t!. They also own some undisclosed properties around the site. (at least they did until recently) there are only 2 streets abutting Bullens, meaning only a few houses would open up extensive space to expand on that side. The Parkend could accommodate any size stand. There is the space, there isn’t the will........ yet!?

Paul Pemberton
21   Posted 03/06/2008 at 13:19:04

Report abuse

Let’s trust the board for a change, they have given us a great manager, a new training facility, better calibre of player and really pushed the club forward. So what if we are getting money from Tesco, lets take it and see just how far we can progress. I have been a season ticket holder for 28 years and have really watched some rubbish and last day relegation fights. For the first time in a long time i can be really proud of the club for what it has achieved recently. Let’s embrace change and move on.
Ajamu Mutumwa
22   Posted 03/06/2008 at 18:30:42

Report abuse

Tom Hughes

All I would say in response is that I am not a quantity surveyor, nor a specialist on stadia design.

What I can say is that whether its HOK, or Everton’s advisors, i’d expect each side to big up the case for thieir client.

On close inspection of both claims I suspect that its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

On the issue of Goodison, you seem to still be talking about what I would call a "bolt on", adding bits and pieces to the stands.

The only stand whiere you can do this without obstructed view is the Park End.

If Everton is to remain, they need to be able to re-build, and have enough space to expand to a 70,000 stadia in the future on the back of a successful team.

If we really are to compete with the Sky 4, that’s what we really need.
Colin Wordsworth
23   Posted 03/06/2008 at 20:12:33

Report abuse

Tom

Sorry for the delay in replying to you sleep and work have got in the way!

Anyway to answer your points, I cannot believe that the bestway loop is a viable alternative to Kirkby, given its location and the fact it is in the middle of a glorified roundabout, even my no voting friend agree with me on this one!

I also cannot comprehend that you are saying it will be possibly cheaper!...with what Tesco are giving us....yes giving!.....there is no way that price can be correct, and if so it is hardly going to be of any quality!

The redevelopment of Goodison, if done has to be done properly, bolting on a mecchano stand is hardly the way to do it(bearing in mind the carbuncle on the park). I agree that the Park End stand will be an easy add on, but the rest won’t.

Remember we will have to get rid of a school and countless houses, and then ask for planning permission from LCC, not an easy feat. Surely if this was so easy it would have been done already, it hasn’t. It is so easy to blame the club on this point, but what if the club are actually correct..and it is far too expensive....what next?

So, this is why I asked you if any other sites have been found, brownfield or otherwise in a suitable area.

I’ve seen the Waton Hall site and yes, very nice...but will LCC allow two parks to be used, I think not!

So with the sharing seemingly out, the loop not good, Walton Park unlikely, Goodison expensive and maybe not possible I feel the club has no choice but to proceed with the move.

As I have said before, this gives us a chance to compete, if we stay and not increase our income streams significantly I fear we will compete less and less and eventually end up like an Ipswich Town or Norwich.....nice clubs, great fans.....but so what!!
Tom Hughes
24   Posted 06/06/2008 at 01:12:41

Report abuse

Colin,
The Loop is a blank canvas.... it has complete pedestrian access along its full length on the Scotland Rd side with Bridged access on other sides. Simple and relatively cheap covering of the Southern edge or sections thereof would open up additional access. It CAN physically accommodate the stadia I mentioned in spatial terms. The Emirates sits in between 2 sets of rail tracks with only a bridged access between them it is also oversized for capacity with very large tread depths almost throughout. The Millenium is completely hemmed in and actually overhangs a river...... No-one would say these stadia don’t work.

Ajamu,
The whole of old trafford is essentially bolt-ons on your terms. As is St James’, Stamford Bridge......... Bernabeu, San Siro, Nou Camp and the vast majority of stadia in fact which have evolved over decades. Old Trafford was never designed with the additional tiers in mind. They are after-thoughts. The most iconic stand at Ibrox (and most efficient structure) has a new tier and roof perched above it. This is their Archie Leitch mainstand which is a similar construction to our Bullens. A stand built behind the Bullens would only need to be 14-16m deep for a capacity increase of 5,000 unobstructed and elevated seats on this side alone, and the sightlines can work. This would remove all obstructions upstairs, and would open up larger concourse areas. That depth of construction would not infringe the school, although it should be noted the school’s future may be elsewhere in anycase. At that depth, the construction would also only physically infringe the existing end terrace houses (3 houses) with a further 10-15 due to light issues etc. Circulation/access/egress of this side can then take place on 2 levels as it does at St James’ Park and elsewhere. The Park end could be added to similarly or started again completely with a new stand. Regardless, 50k+ can be achieved at the far more accessible/historic GP at a far less cost than Kirkby. Even if this additional capacity was of the order of £5k per seat, making it one of the most expensive design/construction costs in the country it would still be only £50m........ and what cost/value would you put on continuity, preservation of history, evaporated threat to identity? To some these are priceless assets!

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to Column articles, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb
Menu
OK

We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.