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Make anything of it you want?

By Paul Niklas :  28/06/2008 :  Comments (26) :
Just been informed on good authority that the waiting list for tickets for Liverpool's new stadium from Norway alone is over 5,000.

Now I know we take the proverbial out of them all the time in relation to their roots and the fan base being considerable outside of Liverpool, however while I am proud that the bulk of Liverpool people support Everton (not true really is it but it makes us all feel better to think so), you have to look at it commercially and remove the emotion from the stadium debate for example and admit albeit difficult that the fan base they have is massive and one that in the commercial world we wish we had.

The stadium debate and other financial issues including that of an investor would not be a discussion point as we would not be going to Kirkby as we would not need Tesco and we would have a more realsitic chance of achievment if we had this type of potential revenue.

The bottom line is we are who we are and we are proud and whilst I hate everything I have said here unfortunatley commercially we are light years behind them and in my opinion will never catch them up.

So we have to be happy with something else and measure ourselves very differently than just the benchmark that is them, which will focus us all more on what is important ? Everton.

I expect dissenters but I also expect that really we all know deep down that we missed the boat some years ago for reasons we all know about and have to forget, I am going to take everything we do from here on in that is good as a bonus and at the moment there is a lot more bonus than their has been for twenty plus years.

I would even go as far to say that Everton fans will be in whatever stadium we end up at, in their thousands as always, because Everton is all that matters. You all know you will... so whilst I applaud the likes of KEIOC and other for their valiant efforts, cometh the day you will all be supporting Everton and at the match, because that's what Everton supporters do and have always done ? support their team.

And in todays very precarious market I think less debt versus our real competitors is a potential feather in our cap. and in relative terms to the others we are getting a good deal financially albeit £78 million could redevelop Goodison and I support that.

Servicing high amounts of debt today and for the next few years will be a painful process and will send some clubs to the wall. I don't want that to happen to us and the ironic thing about all of this is if you don't support the club then it will be your absence from wherever we are that will cause the biggest damage ? and don't ever forget that.

Reader Comments

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Brian Hill
1   Posted 28/06/2008 at 18:23:24

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Just once, it would be pleasing for a writer to name their "good authority". Liverpool’s new stadium does not, and may never, exist. So how can there be a waiting list for tickets? Can you show where these tickets are advertised? Presumably only Liverpool FC can sell tickets for their own games - why are these alleged tickets available in Norway but not Liverpool? This seems to be an unsubstantiated attack on Everton for no reason whatsoever.
Phil Bellis
2   Posted 28/06/2008 at 19:00:26

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Oh Jesus! another white-flag merchant who?s never had our motto translated for him. Thank God our founding fathers and their successors showed more bottle when the going got tough.
And we didn?t miss the boat - we were torpedoed by the Tory government taking full advantage of the unforgivable and UNFORGETTABLE behaviour of a section of our loveable neighbours support.
Paul Thompson
3   Posted 28/06/2008 at 19:39:19

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Mr Niklas

Just guessing but
you are under 35
you don’t know (without looking it up) who was the 4th member of the Holy Trinity
you don’t live in Liverpool or, if you do, you’re tired of being belittled by kopites so think it’s time to get out of town anyway
Paul Hardcastle
4   Posted 28/06/2008 at 20:31:42

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Talk of crumbling at the knees and rolling over! What a shocking abrogation of our collective heritage. Chalk one one more up for the successfully duped and spun, now skulking out of town on the Desperation Kirkby bandwagon.
Neil Pearse
5   Posted 28/06/2008 at 21:40:05

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Yes, you No voters are right. We should continue to pretend that we are rolling in money and tomorrow are going to finally get our act together and build that £200M+ world class stadium in the centre of Liverpool that we can so obviously afford. It is well known that avoiding reality and believing things that are not true is the best course in the long run.
Dave Wilson
6   Posted 28/06/2008 at 22:03:13

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Yes Neil your right, its much easier to quit isnt it

You’ve had your say, you’ve surrended - without a fight - so if you dont mind, there’s a few of us not quite ready to roll over
Neil Pearse
7   Posted 28/06/2008 at 22:15:44

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Dave, since when was doing the best you can in the real world "qutting"? Actually, what it is easier to do is to stay ?pure?, refusing to face up to the reality of the situation you are in, abusing those who aren?t prepared to join you in your comfortable little fantasy world? I suppose that is why you are doing it?
Jim Lloyd
8   Posted 28/06/2008 at 22:47:56

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Well Paul, I think you’re wrong in assuming that just because we are Everton, we will all just follow Mr Kenwright to Kirkby and support out team wherever they build a stadium. Easy to say I know but I will not be setting foot in Kirkbydrome. If you want to know why, I’ll just refer to some of the points you have made. Yes, those across the park are miles ahead of us,in support, in finance and in marketing. Given all the advantages that they have over us, and the fact that they carry the name of the City, if they ever moved outside of the city, there wouldn’t be a great loss in their world image. However, I’d bet a £ to a pinch of horsemuck that there is no way they would ever even contemplate leaving this city.
Yet, we are in danger of leaving a vibrant city,which happens to be our home.
If we leave, we would see what effect there would be on the future support but I think it’s a terrible gamble. I don’t believe the club has looked in ant depth at the alternatives available and they haven’t (as far as I know) got into any kind of talks with a)the council to see what would be available at Goodison, b) with The council and Bestway,to see if there is any possibility of developing the loop and c) with Sainsbury’s and the council re Wally Hall Park.
It may be that none of these schemes would work but I believe Mr Kenwright and Co are not interested in any other packeage than Kirkby,
So, reluctantly, I choose to do the only thing I feel is right...and that means I won’t be going to Kirkby.
What a sad situation for us all, eh. We could be pulling together and getting behind a new GP. Instead, we’re split.
Robert Jones
9   Posted 29/06/2008 at 00:04:26

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RIGHT! Jim and any other babyish little twats having a strop and saying you won’t drag your dummies over to Kirkby, what do we pride ourselves on? Sticking with our team through thick and thin FFS, you call people that want to go quitters but by abandoning Everton for moving 5 miles up the road you are(go on, have a guess) a QUITTER! I can understand why you don’t want to move, I don’t either but it is going through unless the government calls it in, so quit your moaning, quit your sniping and be a true evertonian instead of an abandoning little kopite coz if you leave Everton because of this you might as well be a kopite. Oh yeah and stop picking tiny little idiotic facts out to snipe about!
Christine Foster
10   Posted 29/06/2008 at 02:25:37

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I am concerned that many supporters are tired of those who would argue the case for not moving to Kirkby. The issues that have plagued the project just stumble from bad to worse irrespective of what anyone has said or done. It's not those who protest that have found the transport plan is wanting.

It's not those who protest that signed up for a mid-range stadium in a poor economic area desperate for regeneration, not them who made the statements...

No, we have been left with the aftermath of such things and been expected to trust the board or just ignore it all because we are too dumb to have an opinion.

It's not us who won?t discuss with the fans, it's not us who are silent, it's not us who have an exclusivity agreement.

Those amongst use who are sick and tired and want to leave it all up to the club should remember that the legacy messers Kenwright and Wyness is of such a high risk to our financial future and our tradition that the questions HAVE to be answered.

There is too much at stake not to fully investigate and get the best deal for the club. The split in the fan base has come about by disinformation, lack of detailed information from the club and the promises broken with scant regard for even discussion or explanation

All of us want the best for our club. The facts we have been given and the discrepancies that have come to light required answering by the club. But they haven?t. It's not just about passion. It's not just about location.

My concerns have been voiced in many of my articles for which I have been praised and condemned in equal amounts. But they have consistantly asked the board to answer the concerns of the fans. I have taken the view that a failure to do so is either because they have an ulterior motive or they have not shown competancy in their dealings with fans, councils or others. The failure to do so holds the personal reasons for not doing so up to perhaps undue scrutiny and condemnation.

They have only themselves to blame. Bill Kenwright is an Evertonian. Bill Kenwright is a businessman. He is astute in the workings of the West End not in the workings of a football club, that's why he has placed that trust in Kieth Wyness. It is a trust misplaced.

No one would begrudge Bill from making a good profit from his endeavours, so he should. But BK's expertise comes from a different industry and his already publicised history of naive dealings and an incompetant CEO make it difficult to place the trust of so many of us in this management team. We may respect Kenwright for what he has done but call on him to justify such a move.

No Matter where Everton play, they will always be supported but you build upon what you have and yes we are special, we have a tradition that makes us special.

On an accountants spreadsheet it's called goodwill and people pay for goodwill not give it away or sacrifice it. Those who would discount or put no value on our tradition risk all for what? A mid-range stadium in an out of town retail supermarket site.

I have been called a Luddite, a RS fifth columnist, delusional, sentimentalist, patronized... the list goes on. I am just a passionate Evertonian.

But that does not stop the questions from going unanswered, from the club showing us any respect, from the club wanting to take us to a place that is a poor location, a poor stadium and no heart. If the move to Kirkby happens I will be heavy of heart and STILL believe it will be wrong. I will HOPE it isn?t but my personal experience will still leave me with grave doubts. I will still support the club, still go the game when I can, wherever it is but do not ever think that I would be happy to do so especially if all the questions go unanswered.

I love the club. All my life I have loved the club. That will never change. But I call it the way I see it too. If that means I am a traditionalist, a luddite or whatever, I really don?t mind because without some one asking the questions how can we ensure truth and honesty? How can we truly call this the People's Club?

Derek Thomas
11   Posted 29/06/2008 at 07:01:48

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Paul: ’ I will take everything we do from here as a bonus ’

Me: why, it’s like signing a new bonus.

What I do know is, that the quoted 78mill, which is how many months out of date now, will NEVER go any lower, it will only go up and up and UP. It will soon be so high as to make redeveloping Goodison viable, in fact too good to miss out on.

We were promised, amongst other things, a world class facility....

The creme de la creme

What we may end up with is the...

Creme de la semi skimmed.
Phil McCracken
12   Posted 29/06/2008 at 09:06:42

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My problem with people saying they won?t follow the club to DK is, by doing so you would be hurting Everton. Not Bill, not Keith, just Everton. Its fine to protest as much as you want to stop it happening, you may think actually moving to DK would be more harmful than not following the team to DK, you may be right but then you may be wrong. One thing is for sure by not going to the game you will be hurting Everton, the team and its future. Bill and Keith won?t be here for ever, the decisions they make off the pitch may be wholly unacceptable to you, that's fine, but don?t punish Everton for their misgivings. The team will need you as much at DK as it does at GP, more if you are right, and DK is wrong for the club. It seems to me out of spite, not following the club, the team wherever they end up, the only thing achieved will be to the detriment of Everton.
Brian Finnigan
13   Posted 29/06/2008 at 11:07:06

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Phil......why should the lions bail the donkeys out again. As Olly would say ’that’s another fine mess that you have got us into’ and he would be referring to the Board. This time let the donkeys clean up their own mess.
Robert Jones
14   Posted 29/06/2008 at 11:26:03

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’’why should the lions bail the donkeys out again’’

Because it’s part of being an EVERTONIAN, can’t you see that if you (presumiong you’re a regular match goer) don’t go to the 19 home games a season that’d cost the club £665 and then if you multiply it by 5000 (seems like that amount don’t want to go) and the clubs 3.325m out of pocket, add to that the fact that 5000 less fans in a stadium can have an impact on the players and you really are damaging the club
Brian Finnigan
15   Posted 29/06/2008 at 12:49:45

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Robert......save your Lord Kitchener tactics for the more gullible of our brethren.
I deliberately use that collective term because you liken being an Evertonian to belonging to the Moonies. We are volunteers not conscripts and if the Tesco annexe is half empty don’t say you weren’t warned in advance. Perhaps the yes-voters could buy extra season tickets. .
Robert Jones
16   Posted 29/06/2008 at 13:14:59

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Who are the Moonies and what are the Lord Kitchener tactics?
Phil Bellis
17   Posted 29/06/2008 at 13:23:45

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ROBERT! It’s extemely RUDE! to SHOUT! in print
And if you’d care to meet up and call some of my pals ’babyish twats’, face to face, I’d be happy to hold your coat
Brian Finnigan
18   Posted 29/06/2008 at 13:29:20

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Robert.......Moonies is a degatory term for members of the Unification Church. How can Evertonians be unified if some find lies acceptable and others find them insulting to their intelligence.

Try to see the 1914 Kitchener poster and imagine yourself in the role of Recruitment Officer for the Everton Refugees based in the Kirkby shopping centre.

If the loss of £3m+ is causing you concern, why don’t you suggest either a price increase (I’m sure that’s already in hand) or a pay cut for those players who were at the forefront of the Kirkby promotion brochure.


Jim Lloyd
19   Posted 29/06/2008 at 22:03:59

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Well Robert, that was an extermely well thought out response and you really explained Everton’s reluctance to investigate any other option than Kirkby. However, I’ve watched my last game until and unless this board show the supporters that there truely is no alternative. All we’ve had so far is " There’s no plan B. Well I think you’ll find that many of us believe that there is and that many of us don’t believe in this board.
Paul Niklas
20   Posted 30/06/2008 at 12:33:16

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Jim, I would lay you any money you want that you watch Everton at Kirkby. Unless you have never been before or live in some southern hemisphere joint.

Show me your season ticket for the last 20 years and I will believe your comment.

A true supporter would never say that.
Damian Wilde
21   Posted 30/06/2008 at 14:19:30

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100% of articles (5/5) on the site are about Kirkby, any chance an article can be about something else?
Paul Niklas
22   Posted 30/06/2008 at 14:29:11

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What do you suggest Damien, the high activity in the transfer market by Everton, the ankle injury of Yobo or something else.

Rather than complain , come up with something yourself or do you prefer to just slag other peoples posts and comments as you really have no original points of view.
Jim Lloyd
23   Posted 01/07/2008 at 00:01:37

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Paul, as much as I’d rather bdiscuss the best way forward for Everton (or not as the case may be) you have sen fit to say that I’m not a true evertonian. So be it. Howver, I dont see ant thrill in staying up all hours just to try and add to those who argue that we should not move out of this city. You, however have asked me a number of questions and I will answer and you can make of it as you will. As far as me wanting to watch Everton, of course I will but I will not be going to Kirkby. You ask me if I live in Southern climes, well not unless you count Westminsre Road as such! You ask to see my season tickets for the last twenty years. This sounds a little like, "I’ll show show you mine if you show me yours" and is not a game I recommend adults to play.
However, if you are willing to accept my word that I have been watching the blues since one particularly pissing down night in 1960, will you accept my word?
As for betting me, all I will say, is that I will happily put a £1000 towards regenerating GP,. should you come out and do likewise. Mind you, I’ll have to live on gruel butties for years but so what!
Paul Niklas
24   Posted 01/07/2008 at 09:13:01

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Ok Jim I accept what you say, however I cant believe and wont believe you as a true supporter would not go to the match, we all feel strongly about Kirkby, I do not want it but I have to also accept that my love for Everton will always outweigh anything that goes on off the pitch or where that pitch may be.

Deep down you must be the same.

I would not do likewise re a £1000 pound, I wont go into the details but I spend 50 times that amount a season at Goodison and considerably more than that over the last 5 years.

I am of the opinion that money invested requires a financial return to me personally, its up to the board to come up with it or come up with a scheme that generates income for the club and a return for the fans.

Nothing is for nothing in this world unless your the RS that is.

Dont like to see fellow Evertonians starve so be careful.
Kevin Mitchell
25   Posted 01/07/2008 at 22:39:06

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Paul, you had better start believing Jim and many thousand others including myself that wont renew their season tickets if we go to Kirkby. In fact it?s already started, I know people who didn?t renew for this season because of it. If Kirkby gets the go-ahead, I will be asking for a refund, and coming from a supporter who has had two season tickets in the Upper Bullens since 83, Lower Bullens before that, and Enclosure before that, you should be worried.
Bill Andrew
26   Posted 07/07/2008 at 20:03:04

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Paul, are you still wittering on about football? Get in touch dummy... 07730 700006.

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