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Thank You and Goodnight

By Alan Kirwin :  24/11/2008 :  Comments (36) :
I've now managed to collect my thoughts about tonight's game and I will apologise in advance, for I am pissed off in excelsis. Ken Buckley will do a far more objective and eloquent treatment of this game. Mine simply represents a gathering denouement in my willingness to hurt my eyes any more.

For the umpteenth time this season I started watching us wondering if ths would be the game when we play like a side with European ambitions (or pretentions). You know, passing, movement, skill, commitment, concentration, that sort of thing. And for the umpteenth time this season I observed yet another display of such turgid proportions that I just don;t know where to go now. I feel that I would rather eat my own pancreas than watch an Everton game.

There's just nothing there. I mused on a different thread recently about the uncertainty governing a run of results (such as ours recently) when the team is evidently playing badly and really only succeeding through good fortune. It could break one of two ways, either it builds up our confidence and we start playing well and maintaining the run, or quite simply our luck runs out and we're back down to earth again.

Tonight we got precisely what we deserved, sod all. It was so painful to watch that I truly felt embarassed amongst the neutrals and those with just a passing interest in the exhibition of precision passing and olympic movement that this was not. It seems that with almost every passing game we set new depths of aesthetic destruction. We are simply shit to watch. So much of our football tonight (and frankly all season) would not look out of place in Sefton Park on Sunday morning after 12 pints and a full English.

Let's get the players out the way first. Howard 9 (superb), Neville 4 (unusually nervous, a pity as I think he's been playing & leading well of late), Lescott 3 (very poor, but his problem is very much down to Moyes), Yobo 5 (barely adequate), Jagielka 6 (fairly solid, poor distribution as usual), Arteta 3 (awful, with exception of 2 great defensive runs late on), Osman 4 (invisible in the main), Cahill 4 (ineffective), Fellaini 4 (looked lost in such a tawdry game), Saha 5 (couple of flashes of pace & power), Yakubu 5 (looks fed up).

Marking the players individually tells only part of this story. And we're not just talking about Wigan tonight. I think we've all seen the same thing since pre-season. Firstly I don't see any point in playing a midfield because we never bother to use it. I've marked the whole midfield as crap tonight, which they were, but what must they do in training? What on earth is Moyes and Round doing to render these talented multi millionaires utterly useless? Ruud Gullit once said that if your team-mates move around and give you options then football is easy (assuming of course you know a pass when you see one). Cnversely he also said that if your team mates stand still then they re very easy to mark and you look crap as your passes never reach them.

Right now I regard Moyes as the luckiest manager in the premier league. Up to May he was OK, working hard, living and feeling the club and driving forward. That stopped in May. It hasn't returned, even with his enormous new pay packet and eventual realisation that his own ditherings on his contract were affecting the team. I believe Moyes REALLY has taken this team as far as he can. We are 7th in the league despite what he has done, not because of it. We have ridden our luck and it ran out tonight. The reality check was overdue.

For sure, I prefer to be winning whilst playing badly rather than losing like Brazil. But there are limits and after one third o the league season we are yet to put in a single good performance over 90 mins and we're out of two cups. The players look disjointed, incoherent, indecisive, slow, immobile and more. These are basically good players. I can't believe that Arteta, Felaini, Saha, Yakubu, Lescott, Osman and pienaar don't want to enjoy their football. Arteta in particular just looks out of it and something is very wrong.

We are possibly the worse visual experience the premier league has to offer, and there are some crap teams in it. It's all down to Moyes and Round and I have lost count of the number of times his post-match press conference has included the words "poor performance". i think it equals the number of games we've played minus 2. For someone now earning over £3m a year it is no longer acceptable. I would personally have let him go before pre-season as he had clearly gone off message, off radar and off the boil by then. I think this again shows up Bill Kenwright getting too close to the engine room. He should maintain a healthy, positive and friendly relationship with his manager, but that's not his nature and it's a shame. To reward Moyes with that contract after he not only managed, but was highly culpable in, our crap pre-season & start to the season was the wrong call.

It will now take a transformation way beyond the Redknapp/Spurs model to sway me back onside towards Moyes. As far as I am concerned he has hit the wall both tactically and emotionally, and has nothing more to give. It really is self-evident. I would love to be proved wrong and to savour beautiful performances with a hint of steel as we cut a swathe through all comers and clinch 4th (or even 3rd place). But come on, it's not going to happen is it? We've been waiting since the first re-season game for a good performance and were still waiting. Losing to Wigan for the first time in Wigan was a wake-up call and, though it galls me to say it, probably helpful in the long run.

There's been a lot of discussion elsewhere on TW about change at our club, boardroom, stadium etc etc. Right now I think we're at the stage when we need a new manager. It was once argued about a certain political leader that he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Well, we're doing a good job of our own in that department and it is now my firmly held belief that if we don't replace Moyes soon another opportunity will be missed.

Then again, I know it won't happen.

Reader Comments

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Colin Malone
1   Posted 25/11/2008 at 03:07:40

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Great post. I have to repeat myself and many others, the last time we played as badly as this, it was when Lee Carsley was out injured for 5 months. Which goes to show, we need a holding player to do the scruffy work for the likes of Arteta and Peanut.

What has Castillo done wrong? Ok he might lack pace, but you get that with games. Fans are having a go at Lescott but the defence is not getting protected by the midfield.

Fans are having a go at the Yak but he is not getting fed by the midfield, How many goals would Bob Latchford or Gary Lineker score in this side?

Fans are having a go at Arteta but he is still our best midfielder with the right players around him, I don't mean big Victor. He has to be relieved from taking all freekicks and corners and told to shoot on sight now and again but Castillo done that and look what happened to him.

So to get a bit of balance in midfield, it has to be Castillo for the unimpressive Fellaini.

Derek Thomas
2   Posted 25/11/2008 at 04:49:40

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To save time and effort please refer to my Tony Marsh style post in Paul Hardcastles post dated 22/11 in the mailbag....and double it

Also, in my own write I agree with Alan’s post Moyes must go and whatever the question is about replacements is.. Round is not the answer.

It’s true, while pace is good you can do without it ( if you must ) in the Carsley role all you need is a Bit of a footballing brain, the ability to give a simple pass to the actual good players and the willingness to get a foot or head in when required.

In fact too much pace, which also hints at a bit of fitness, might also encourage the player to move out of position.

I remember watching a repeat ( just after he died ) of Bests interview with Parkinson, he said, all things being equal, that he would’ve be able to play until he was 50 as a sweeper, which all the role is a sweeper infront of, instead of behind.

It is the easiest and at the same time the hardest role to play
Trevor Lynes
3   Posted 25/11/2008 at 05:24:25

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Best football we have played over 90 mins was in the draw against Boro and the only other flash of ability was the 2nd half against Man Utd. A very ordinary Wigan side thoroughly deserved to beat us and only Howard stopped a rout. We are without doubt the worst footballing side to watch in the Premier League and I hate them being on TV...!!
Jeremy Benson
4   Posted 25/11/2008 at 06:40:52

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There is still time to turn our season around. We simply need to deploy on the field the tactics that the players can easily mould into, suits their play, and into which they are obviously being trained.

Gentlemen, I give you the 5-1-4.

Ossie should play the single midfielder, as it’ll be an invisible role anyway.

Having the extra defender means that someone can cover the position where lescott is supposed to be during the opposition attacks (thus saving us a goal or two per game), and the extra man free’s up our centre backs and Phil to easily hoof it up to the 4 strikers.

I will be patenting this formation very soon, so I suggest its used pronto before the paperwork clears.
John Andrews
5   Posted 25/11/2008 at 06:44:03

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I could not agree with you more Alan. Having just watched that pile of crap with my son, also a Blue, we were both lost for words.
Neither of us could actually believe what we were watching ! The total tactical ineptitude of Moyes is staggering.
Now I have never been the biggest fan of Moyes but I had to, begrudgingly, admit that he had done well with the resources supplied by Billy Bullshit. However last nights game was, I think, getting very near to the end for me.
I should add that I have followed the Mighty Blues for over fifty years and NEVER have I seen such a lacklustre performance from my team.
Just to make it worse there was McManaman and Sherwood telling all and sundry how we were going to roll over a poor Wigan side who have won just one of their home games.
Well not now they haven’t ! They beat us fairly easily and, as has been mentioned before, only Howard kept the score respectable.
I cannot change my team now. I am too old. But until we get rid of Moyes, Round, Woods and all the other hangers on we will remain second rate. And it pains me to say that !!
FFCPat
6   Posted 25/11/2008 at 06:09:30

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This came up as a fulham result on google news, thought I’d read it anyway. Colin, we’ve gone without a true defensive mid all year and have the 4th best defence in the league it’s largely due to the great organisation we have in place, the hard work of every single player and the great keeper we have. We all thought we’d leak a huge amount of goals without a rough big man at dm but we’ve done quite well.
Craig Taylor
7   Posted 25/11/2008 at 06:53:38

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1- Moyes has to go. I said this about 3 moths ago on this web site. He has taken us as far as he can.




2- ’Shandy’ Andy must be peed, he has stated his desire to play, was our best player in pre-season (until injury again) and now he is fit he cant get a game, even though we are screaming out for real width. The way our midfield is playing he MUST be given a chance coz he cant be any worse than any of the others. I saw him on a news clip on the telly a couple of weeks ago and he looked in fantastic condition. So, Moyes give him a chance and if it doesnt work then at least you can say you tried!!!
Jay Campbell
8   Posted 25/11/2008 at 07:27:16

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Total and utter shite!!!!

Feel sorry for the thousands that made the journey to see that bollocks.

Moyes is totally clueless and will NEVER change. Osman is crap and like Hibbert is playing 2 leagues above his capabilities again Moyes’s fault for picking him. Yakubu is a fuckn waste of space who if true wants to go to Spurs should be the 1st out of the door in January. Lescott and Arteta should be dropped RIGHT NOW!!

The whole team has been shite this season apart from the 2nd half in the Man U game and West Ham last 15 miniutes!! Totally unacceptable and to many people at Everton are on easy street.

The kids coming through the ranks must be really poor if they can’t challenge some of the puddings in the current side.

Falling attendances(rightly so), one trick pony manager, totally inept chairman and a disaterous move to the country where half the fanbase is split in two - only bad times ahead for Everton i’m afraid.
Mike Haslem
9   Posted 25/11/2008 at 08:04:10

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i know we were utter shite against wigan, but ive got to disagree with sacking moyes, since when have we forgotten about kenright? surely signing players such as carlo nash and letting manuel fernades is a step in the wrong direction, but i dont think that its DM to blame, with no money how can anyone progress up the table and releasing johnson, fernades and carsley only thins out a squad that isnt going to be replenished, i think moyes deserves his contract because were never going to be as poor as the days before he arrived, celebrating a gareth farrelly left foot volley against coventry to keep us up. When newcastle were put up for sale mike ashley said there were several buyers interested straight away, why not at everton, a club not in such a crisis as them and doing better over the years, i believe kenright is trying to keep hold of the reins and is only interested in a takeover that keeps him in some power at the club!
Dick Fearon
10   Posted 25/11/2008 at 08:09:13

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Craig Taylor, thanks for nowt, I am in depths of despair and the only thing that could possibly make it worse was your mention of that bastard dutch drunkards name.
Dick Fearon
11   Posted 25/11/2008 at 08:24:27

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Say what you like about Fellaini but unlike Osman and Arteta he does not go missing in action.
Alan Clarke
12   Posted 25/11/2008 at 08:36:58

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It sums us up when Steve Bruce says that was one of Wigan’s worst performances.

In other posts people have argued that they’d rather us win than play well and lose (Alan K touches on it). I don’t see why we’d lose if we play well. Certainly playing shite isn’t getting us anywhere. The aim of the game is to win and if you play good football, surely you’re more likely to win? Am I too niaive? Is the only way to win a game by playing defensive crap football? It just seems that the teams at the top of the league actually play good football so my theory must hold some water.
Craig Taylor
13   Posted 25/11/2008 at 08:52:22

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I apologise for upsetting you, Dick, however can Shandy be any worse than the crap we are seeing at the moment?? He must have some ability to have played for the teams he has. Just think he should be given a chance coz at the moment we have no width due to no wide players!!!
Lori Fekete
14   Posted 25/11/2008 at 08:31:13

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14 games into the season (not to mention going out of two cups) and we’re still absolute shite!

How we’re still in 7th is beyond me. I make it a grand total of 55mins of decent football all season (2nd half of Man.U and 10mins of West Ham).

Craig Taylor, (re. shandy andy) bloody hell if that’s desperate then we’re in more trouble than I thought!

The football is just awful (absolute fucking shite), Arteta looks like he’s been possessed by Phil Neville.
I agree we should give Castillo more of a chance (it can’t be any worse).
Lescott and Arteta need a spell on the bench.
I feel sorry for Fellaini, he looked world class for Leige (who play it on the deck). He’s come into a different league, can’t speak the lingo and into a team that plays worse football than my sunday league team, we can’t criticise too much.

I’m well fucked off and i’m not even thinking about DK
Craig Taylor
15   Posted 25/11/2008 at 09:11:55

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I HATE loving Everton!!!!!!!!!!
Davey Militwitch
16   Posted 25/11/2008 at 09:06:07

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Firstly-Spot on post Alan, your observations struck a chord with me, usually an ardent Moyes supporter.

@ Dick Fearon

WTF? Fellaini never goes missing in action? At 8ft 6" of course you can’t miss him but lets be honest here the lad is a docile blurt!
He can play decent footy on the deck at very sporadic times even threaten the goal with his perm if we’re lucky, but at 15million he is a bigger waste of money than the new government budget proposals.

The lad is young, he needs time to settle blah blah blah, look at his contributions in every game he plays and measure his performance against a Lee Carsley. I would pick Lee Carsley EVERY time-even at 52 or whatever age he was.

I understand we want to play progressive footy, but if that is progressive footy then I want regressive footy. Bring in a Defensive no-nonsense midfielder!!!!!
Monty Carlo
17   Posted 25/11/2008 at 09:24:13

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A good post Alan. You put into words more-or-less what I have been thinking recently.

Going back to the formation; how about a 4-0-6? It makes sense to move the entire midfield forward so they are ready to receive the ball once the defenders get it. If we need help in defence then we could play Tim Howard in a sweeper role, tucked in behind the back-four (much like the old "goalie-in-and-out" we used to play when I was a kid).
Jay Campbell
18   Posted 25/11/2008 at 09:44:43

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Lee Carsley!!!! For fucks sake he is one of the most ordinary, limited footballers i have ever seen.

Things are really bad at Everton if we are missing a player of Carsleys calibre.

Peter Gunn
19   Posted 25/11/2008 at 09:39:28

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I thought Fellaini was utter bollocks last night. A ship lost in the midfield without a rudder. Please don’t use the excuse of him being young, new to the league, can’t speak the lingo etc. He is an established international player and he was absolute toilet last night. He didn’t get out of first gear all match and you’d be lucky to get a sheet of A4 under his feet when he jumps. He is not and never will be a 15mil player in my eyes. I hope I’m wrong but can’t see it. Arteta looks completely and utterly disinterested. He looks like he has just been told he has a terminal illness. Cahill is lost in a four man midfield and last night he started out wide! He also looks way short of fitness and sharpness.

We played so narrow in midfield last night. The four in midfield last night are all more comfortable playing in the middle. They were getting in each others way and running into each others space and denying options to the man on the ball. If you include Big Vic and Lescott and 3 of the midfield they were played out of their preferred positions. That has to have an effect. Square pegs for round holes. We also have nobody with any football nous to either put his foot on the ball and pick a pass or drive the team forward. Neville as captain. As inspiring a leader as Captain Pugwash. He looked apathetic at best last night. Not once did you see him barking at team mates, trying to motivate them, drive them forward. The only vocal one last night was Horward!

This was the form team in the Premiership last night without a defeat in 5 games! We looked like relegation candidates last night. You’d have thought we’d played back to back on Saturday & Sunday such was the lack of impetus, drive, apparent fitness and basic interest from all players.

So who is to blame? Well only one person picks the team, decides tactics, formations and is responsible for motivating and galvinising the players to perform. These players are well paid, have the most fantastic job in the world yet they looked like they wanted to be anywhere else but at the JJB.

Davy. Time to have a big look at yourself and the organisation you have around you. It is not working. It has not been working for a long long time. That performance has been coming for a long time. This team is cast in your image. Playing the way you played when you kicked shins & knocked long balls into the advertising hoardings as a journeyman centre half. Dour, spiritless, no flair & no drive.
Ciarán McGlone
20   Posted 25/11/2008 at 10:31:20

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Alan,

You stole my hymsheet.

However I do have one problem with your incandescence..and you’re not going to like it.

Moyes is Kenwright’s perfect manager. Yesterday we already had Moyes telling us that we had no money to spend in January....a fine example of doing the dirty work of the chairman.

Kenwright and Moyes are not mutually exclusive...They are both problems. And merely removing Moyes will not solve the constructive malaise at this club.
Vinny Garstrokes
21   Posted 25/11/2008 at 10:34:25

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I disagree with the comments about Fellaini. I thought he was one of the few who were digging out last night, Jags and Tim Howard being the others. Living in Billinge and having saved up to attend this one with my lad (a Wigan fan) I have to say it was probably the worst I have seen from us in a long time. Same players but just a poor mentality and confidence. We all know that Tim Cahill would have buried all of those chances last year and his fluff in the dying seconds just epitomises what he, Arteta, Lescott and Neville seem to be suffering from. Harry Redknapp can turn around a group of players low on confidence and I used to think that DM could but his body language speaks volumes to me. Even when we scored the equaliser against Boro, I was watching him and he just wasn’t as animated and passionate as he has been in the past. If fit, I would deffo bring Andy VDM in!!!
James Boden
22   Posted 25/11/2008 at 09:50:04

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I could sense a defeat before kick off due to all the stats about how we’ve been superb on the road and Wigan are struggling for goals and so on. And im a pessimist but even last night was even worse than i expected. In fact it was such a shambles that i didn’t even watch the last 15 minutes. An absolute disgrace of a performance in my eyes. This is Wigan we are talking about! And they throroughly deserved the 3 points as they totally outplayed us.

And how many more poor games must the following have before being dropped: Yobo, Lescott, Arteta, Osman, Cahill and Yakubu. All of them have been woeful this season. I don’t think theres a footballer alive who kicks the ball worse than Yobo. Lescott has gone from being the top scoring defender in europe to be absolute shite. Arteta has been very poor for 18 months now. And why is he on every free kick and corner. And what do all these dickhead commentators see. "Poor by his standards". 9 times out of 10 he hits the 1st man. Do these so called football experts not see this! How Osman plays football at any level i do not know. He doesn’t offer us anything. And is far too lightweight too. Cahill has used up all his worth, and now i think its time for him to be sold. He might still have value on him. And why the bloody hell was he on the right. OH YES HOW SILLY OF ME, CAUSE ZINEDINE OSMAN, THE WORLDS GREATEST EVER FOOTBALLER MUST PLAY IN THE MIDDLE. And finally on to the Yak. Ok credit where its due, he did a superb pass to Saha. That aside he hasnt offered us anything. 1 goal in 11 games. That is an absolute woeful return. And if he’s not scoring he doesn’t offer us anything. It seems he gets more bone idle every week.
But who’s to blame for all this?
Thats the question? Is it Moyes, is it Kenwright? I don’t think it is. Ill tell you who’s to blame. The pricks who actually think this is good enough that’s who.
You Moyes Lovers are convinced that he’s saved us and that good times are ahead. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

This is woeful. Dire football again, and again, and again. As someone said Moyes has it in his head that we can’t win being attack minded. For a team as attack minded as that we sure were negative. And it would have been far worse but for Tim Howard making a couple of magnificent saves. Think goodness he’s been outstanding lately, because we’ve sure needed him.

Moyes has had almost 7 years to get it right. Still no pace in the team, still dire football, still no silverware. This just isn’t good enough. And while you may argue that Moyes hasn’t been backed and has had his hands tied behind his back. But hang on. Didn’t Joe Royle have his hands tied and no one made any excuses for him. And this was a manager who took us over when we were in dire straights. Bottom of the league and not only did he keep us up but he also won us the FA Cup. And then in his only full season he finished 6th. We just missed out on europe. And also its worth pointing out we had our best goal return since we won the league in 1987. Thats more than Moyes has ever done. And also Howard Kendall. He wasn’t exactly backed now was he. How did he get the funds to buy the likes of Kevin Sheedy and Trevor Steven. He had to sell. Even Dave Watson deal was only funded by the sale of Gary Lineker. Kendall had to be sharp with his transfer deals. And don’t give me this shit that the league is much stronger now. It’s because Kendall is a far superior manager to Moyes that’s why!

Simply put He’s been given enough time and he clearly hasn’t got a clue. But thanks to our dickhead chairman and all you pricks who sing his songs, he’s got another 5 years. Maybe come summer 2013 you may have woken up and realised what a knobhead he really is.
Im afraid its all downhill from here.
Alan Kirwin
23   Posted 25/11/2008 at 10:33:35

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Dave:

Fellaini was poor & ineffective tonight, but I don’t blame the kid. I think he has great ability (amply shown when Liege battered the RS).

The issue is tactics (before & during a game) and motivation. I’m afraid Moyes’ time us up. We can (as Bill probably will) just do nothing and let him lumber on, but it is blindingly obvious that ha can’t take us any further. To be honest I think even Moyes knows the score now. His body language since he re-appeared in August has been one of misery & resignation. The sparkle has gone & it won’t return.

I think it’s Barcelona where fans show they’ve had enough by jingling their keys at the match. It’s an eerie sound listening to 35,000 sets of keys jangling. Whatever it takes, the time to act us now. We are nearer the top than the bottom and have a transfer window approaching. The team needs refreshing now, not when we’re stuck in a dogfight near the bottom
and even more demoralized.

The big Q is who. The emphasis has to be on tactics, technique & man management. No point in dreaming of a Mancini or Hiddink. I think Bilic should be a contender (his Everton career is ancient history to me), Steve Coppell is an outsider, NOT Curbishley, maybe the guy at Standard Liege, even Gareth Southgate.

I know it won’t happen. I know, I know. I fear we are consigned to another 25 games of drudgery & disappointment until the next presume-season when Moyes can hone his new 4-5-1 system and only the 4 and the 1 get to touch the ball.

Sheer misery.

Chris Robinson
24   Posted 25/11/2008 at 10:09:43

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It’s now official policy then - Everton play with only one established full back at any given time!

Why Moyes brought on Baines for Neville and then moved Jags to right back is a complete mystery, especially with 5 minutes to go when we were chasing the game! Neville had not played well, but he was no worse than Lescott and didn’t seem to be injured. No goals had been leaked down his flank, even if his distribution had been awful all game. We weren’t under any particular pressure from Wigan on his side of the field. Had Moyes seen a weakness in Wigan’s right side which Baines could exploit where Lescott had not? Did he think Jags could provide much needed attacking flair down our right?.....Do me a favour!

After a bright start when it seemed if we could score 1, we’d score 2-3 more, it all fell apart, especially in midfield. Saha’s shot was saved in the first half, but instead of building on that momentum, we just faded against a very ordinary Wigan side (we even made Cattermole look Brazilian!). That proved to be our last accurate threat on goal! The whole team was clueless and that has to be down to the coaching they receive or are we simply playing too many players out of position?

How long is Moyes going to persist in playing Lescott at left back before he realises he will cost us @ 2 miliion in place money at the very least and probably a place in Europe come the end of the season? He must have cost us at least 9 points so far, including his clueless performances at centre back.

I have been a Moyes supporter since he arrived at the club and think overall he has done a good job. I am now most definitely on the fence after last night’s efforts. It’s time he showed he is worth that lucrative new contract.
Ciarán McGlone
25   Posted 25/11/2008 at 11:01:24

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I’d love the guy from liege...he’s an absolute hoot..

But lets be real....Moyes is here for the next 5 years...spending no money, making the same mistakes and playing cráp football.
Steve Syder
26   Posted 25/11/2008 at 11:34:35

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Moyes has surpassed himself now.

Not content with sending (completely unprepared) players terrified against the Sky 4 he is now sending them out scared and lacking commitment against the bottom three.

Thanks Davie - and goodbye.
Jonathan Tasker
27   Posted 25/11/2008 at 11:56:24

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What is it about substitutes that Moyes doesn’t get?


It’s not that complicated, surely , even for Moyes?

WTF was the point of bringing on Baines after 85 minutes?
Darren Gough
28   Posted 25/11/2008 at 11:53:56

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@ Peter Gunn. Brilliant. Your comments have had me in stitches.

Can’t disagree with anything said; was so bad last night i couldn’t even get angry...THAT’s how bad it was.

Also can anyone explain why we are unable to play our £6miilion, fully fit left back at left back instead of our out of form central defender? I know Baines hasn’t set the world alight for us, but he is surely owed a run in the team, esp when some of that dross keep their places week in week out.
Chris Boyd
29   Posted 25/11/2008 at 11:42:32

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Good post. totally spot on.

Unfortunately from the day moyes arrived up to today there has been no improvement in the standard of football we play. (Not that i call showing up and praying for the opposition to make mistakes for us to have a chance at goal playing football.)
When was the last time we played a through ball in behind a defence for a forward to run on to? I honestly cant remember!
I am totally fed up with everton at the minute. Going the game has now become a chore, not something that i look forward to.
With no money to spend in jan its not going to get any better.
DULL TIMES AHEAD FOR US ALL
Alan Kirwin
30   Posted 25/11/2008 at 12:16:23

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Ciaran:

Sorry to get there before you :-)

You have a point regarding the Moyes/Kenwright axis. I believe Kenwright’s failings are more human than devious. He gets too close to his manager and he shouldn;t. That’s simply the guy that he is. But I will be equally frustrated with Kenwright because I share your doom-laden prognosis of another 5 years of this drudgery.

I’s all a far cry from that game at Old Trafford in Oct 2002 I watched on honeymoon. For 87 mins Everton went hammer & tongs at Man Utd with positive football all played on the floor and full of spunk, led by a certain Thomas Gravesen.

There is no satisfaction in this whatsoever. We have, somehow or other, re-established ourselves as top 6 (certainly top half) under Moyes after 20 years of mediocrity (excl 95). The art of business and management is little different to the art of buying & selling shares & houses. It’s all about timing.

If BK acted now (and I agree with you he won’t) then, assuming he got the right guy, the team could be refreshed and get the bounce that most clubs get with a new manager. We are still handily placed and so it could be an interesting 2nd half to the season. I sense the players need releasing to play football. So many of them look afraid, uncertain, lost & down.

We have players with energy & verve,e.g. Baines, Vaughan, Anichebe, Saha, Neville, Arteta, Yobo. and yet it just won’t happen on the pitch. It does not take a genius to observe that Moyes plumbed the depths between May - August. His demeanour rubbed off on the players big time and we see the results. Now they see a manager who still exudes misery and lack of motivatipon, and yet he’s doubled his package to over £3m a year. I don’t think some players are too impressed.

You’re right, he is Kenwright’s man and it’s not Kenwright’s style to ditch his manager unless he really has to. So I think it’s now down to the fans to show the board what we feel. If fans vote with their feet, or even with their jangling keys, then perhaps, just perhaps, a change could be engineered.

But that’s only half the problem, because we’re skint and would probably struggle to even pay Moyes’ compensation.

As I said, sheer misery.
Alan Kirwin
31   Posted 25/11/2008 at 12:16:23

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Ciaran:

Sorry to get there before you :-)

You have a point regarding the Moyes/Kenwright axis. I believe Kenwright’s failings are more human than devious. He gets too close to his manager and he shouldn;t. That’s simply the guy that he is. But I will be equally frustrated with Kenwright because I share your doom-laden prognosis of another 5 years of this drudgery.

I’s all a far cry from that game at Old Trafford in Oct 2002 I watched on honeymoon. For 87 mins Everton went hammer & tongs at Man Utd with positive football all played on the floor and full of spunk, led by a certain Thomas Gravesen.

There is no satisfaction in this whatsoever. We have, somehow or other, re-established ourselves as top 6 (certainly top half) under Moyes after 20 years of mediocrity (excl 95). The art of business and management is little different to the art of buying & selling shares & houses. It’s all about timing.

If BK acted now (and I agree with you he won’t) then, assuming he got the right guy, the team could be refreshed and get the bounce that most clubs get with a new manager. We are still handily placed and so it could be an interesting 2nd half to the season. I sense the players need releasing to play football. So many of them look afraid, uncertain, lost & down.

We have players with energy & verve,e.g. Baines, Vaughan, Anichebe, Saha, Neville, Arteta, Yobo. and yet it just won’t happen on the pitch. It does not take a genius to observe that Moyes plumbed the depths between May - August. His demeanour rubbed off on the players big time and we see the results. Now they see a manager who still exudes misery and lack of motivatipon, and yet he’s doubled his package to over £3m a year. I don’t think some players are too impressed.

You’re right, he is Kenwright’s man and it’s not Kenwright’s style to ditch his manager unless he really has to. So I think it’s now down to the fans to show the board what we feel. If fans vote with their feet, or even with their jangling keys, then perhaps, just perhaps, a change could be engineered.

But that’s only half the problem, because we’re skint and would probably struggle to even pay Moyes’ compensation.

As I said, sheer misery.
Peter Lynch
32   Posted 25/11/2008 at 13:02:09

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I have to say that I am usually quite positive about Moyes as he has, by and large, done a terrific job with not a huge amount of talent/money/support at his disposal.

However, after last night’s debacle I am really starting to lose patience. Wigan were there for the taking, by Steve Bruce’s own admission they (Wigan) were poor. So where that places Everton I do not know.

The brunt of my ire all season has been Lescott’s continued inclusion, I just fail to fathom how and why he has remained in the team. It just makes me so furious that:

1. We’ve conceded so many goals in that area and nothing has been done 2. We lack pace across the park yet none of Moyes signings ever seem to have any at all
3. The one player who does possess a bit of pace/spark (Baines) is left on the bench and
4. When Baines has played (specifically Newcastle) he set up two goals, we had more width and if I’m not mistaken he also threw in a couple of goal line clearances for good measure.



I won’t (for now) talk about Cahill’s presence in a 4-4-2 or Yakubu’s transformation from aggressive goal-scoring maching to pudding.

Instead, I’ll invite someone to tell me that I dreamt the Newcastle game ever happened.

A furious Blue.
Dave Williams
33   Posted 25/11/2008 at 13:14:25

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Excellent post, Twenty minutes from the end I was praying for hoofball,there was no way we were going to play through one of the worst teams we will meet this season.
Our players with the exception of Howard and Fellaini in bursts looked totally uninterested.Our only hope was someone pouncing on a defensive error.
Even set pieces were never an option because Arteta still fails to deliver 99% of the time it was totally unacceptable.I can no longer justify watching this crap,my family is going to have another full time member at the weekends from now on.
Sort it out Davey ,I can stomach anything if I feel we have given our best ,even defeat to the shite,give some of the others a go or make way for someone who will.
Dave Wilson
34   Posted 25/11/2008 at 12:56:02

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what the fuck are you people talking about ????
If Moyes were to sacked it would cost 15 million in compo.
Then to get another manager would cost another 10-15 million,
where the fuck is that going to come from ????

When screaming for Moyes to re-sign did you not realise you were ensuring there was no plan B ?
but then we’ve got a chairman who specialises in that..

This is our lot, like it or lump it.

I know we are shite, I dont need a bunch of whiners to remind me
I’ll be at Spurs on Saturday, I know we’ll get terrific support dispite our current difficulties, but then the people who will be there know the value of their backing. There will also be thousands who woud love to be there but for onr reason or another cant

And then, there will be others who will try to drag the rest of us into their self pittying depression by stating the blindingly fucken obvious from the comfort of their pc’s

Bill Gall
35   Posted 25/11/2008 at 13:37:17

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I do not understand people protecting D.M. saying he was not given money to strengthen the team.A top manager should be able to utilize a system that the players he has, feel and play easy in. It is quite obvious that this year it is not the case,the only danger provided by this team is from set pieces. After last nights performance i wonder how teams with less money (H.C) still play good football. D.Moyes does not seem to have any ideas to change a game, plays players out of position,plays players who are not fit and plays players,playing bad in the hope they will come good. This is poor management and will continue for the rest of the season unless he shows some guts and brings in some younger players or is replaced.
Steve Mink
36   Posted 26/11/2008 at 18:38:32

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Hit the nail on the head , Alan.

Couldn’t agree more.


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